Census 2010: Why The Urban Core Matters

[Metro Jacksonville]

Census 2010: Why The Urban Core Matters



"This is no longer anecdotal. Every metro area has good suburbs, but if you don't have a strong downtown and close-in neighborhoods, then you're not offering a choice that many of them are seeking. Offering that choice is a real competitive advantage for cities." - Carol Coletta, head of CEOs for Cities.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-apr-census-2010-why-the-urban-core-matters

[rainfrog]

The decimal places in the second chart have me envisioning some pretty fanciful characters or pieces thereof living in our city centers!

[vicupstate]

Great article. Really drives the point home with the bar graph.

[mtraininjax]

What does job creation, directly have to do with downtown Jacksonville? The kind of job creation to lower the 11% unemployment rate?

[Overstreet]

Central Business district...............in Jacksonville would that be downtown or off of J.Turner Butler and Southside Blvd?

I'm not sure of the point "driven home". The top dozen have always had a group of urban young adults. Atlanta has a group moving in because housing initial cost is so much lower. Commute time varies depending upon where you work. For example if you moved close to work in Edgewood (developing neighborhood)  then get transfered to Alpharette commute time just got longer. 

I suppose if you are % change driven our urban growth 41% change would be impressive. I'm sure the highrise condo developers would like to see the move. I don't think we've really seen a wave of movement yet. 

[simms3]

Central Business district...............in Jacksonville would that be downtown or off of J.Turner Butler and Southside Blvd?

I'm not sure of the point "driven home". The top dozen have always had a group of urban young adults. Atlanta has a group moving in because housing initial cost is so much lower. Commute time varies depending upon where you work. For example if you moved close to work in Edgewood (developing neighborhood)  then get transfered to Alpharette commute time just got longer. 

I suppose if you are % change driven our urban growth 41% change would be impressive. I'm sure the highrise condo developers would like to see the move. I don't think we've really seen a wave of movement yet. 

Actually, Jacksonville is really cheap.  Atlanta is cheap for a large city, especially relative to Boston, DC, San Fran, or New York, but the City of Atlanta, where all of the young people move to, is very similar in pricing to Chicago and Philadelphia (also cheap cities for their size and relative to the aforementioned cities).  A studio in a new building in Midtown or Buckhead can start at between $1500-2000, a studio.  The most expensive 3 bedroom in the Strand on the 24th floor is a hair over $1900/mo with a measly $300 security deposit.  There's a one bedroom in the high rise across from my office building in Atlanta renting out for $2900/mo, and it's not a luxury empty nester building with $10M condos, it's a young person's building (and in a submarket, too!)

Price is not why young people move to a city, or they wouldn't be flocking to DC (like my cousin just did and one of my best friends), New York, Boston, or any other large city.  My property taxes in Atlanta are almost 45 mil (I believe it's 17 mil in Jacksonville) and let's not even talk about property taxes in other cities.  And if you wanted to purchase a home in Atlanta, Ortega and Ponte Vedra pricing would be pretty cheap relative to about 8 intown neighborhoods I can think of.

Young people want to move somewhere for three reasons:

1) To be near other young people so that eventually they can marry/find a partner more easily and have fun with their age group in the meantime (impossible in Jacksonville where there are no young, hip neighborhoods and everything is so spread out and the young people that are there are hitched and bearing children at 22 years of age)
2) To make a lot of money (impossible in Jacksonville)
3) To have an exciting life living in the city, being involved, and being able to do stuff you won't have the energy, time, or compliance to do later in life (impossible in Jacksonville where the lifestyle of a 34 year old mimics the lifestyle of a 54 year old...Ha)

If a city offers these things, there's probably a price attached, and young people obviously are willing to pay that price to have these three things.

[JeffreyS]

Perhaps we should put it this way all of the fortune 1000 companies head quartered in Jax are in the core.  Well I guess Winn Dixie would be just outside the core at Edgewood and Casset. If you want to attract those kinds of business to head quarter and invest in your city the core is the area that needs to impress.  No judgment that is just the way it is.

[thelakelander]

What does job creation, directly have to do with downtown Jacksonville? The kind of job creation to lower the 11% unemployment rate?

Unfortunately, you can't look at the subject of "job creation" in a vacuum.   In reality, there's good and bad job creation.  So ultimately, we'll have to determine what type of jobs/salaries and skilled force we'd like to have and shape our community to include the atmosphere they seek.  According to the chamber, here is a list of industries where local job creation is desired:

Our Chamber of Commerce has identified numerous industries as being well-positioned for growth in Jacksonville, and, as mayor, I would work to champion job creation with emphasis in these areas: life sciences/medical; finance and insurance services; logistics and distribution; aviation and aerospace; advanced manufacturing; information technology; and headquarters location/relocation.

Most of these industries seek a skilled workforce that is attracted to a more urbanized lifestyle.  If Jax wants to really advance in any of these sectors outside of logistics and aviation, more attention will have to be paid to enhancing not only downtown, but the surrounding neighborhoods like Riverside, Springfield, Brooklyn, Eastside, San Marco, Durkeeville, etc. as well.

We should also look to get away from subsidizing bad unsustainable job creation.  One thing the urban core has in favor from the rest of the city is an already constructed infrastructure network that was developed for double the amount of population that exists there today.  Quite frankly, you could dump Baymeadows, Southpoint and SJTC in the city and spend minimal money on supporting infrastructure (ex. new roads, sidewalks, parks, schools, public safety, libraries, etc.).  You can't do that anywhere else in this city.  Considering we're already $62 million in the hole, it only makes sense to better utilize infrastructure that already exists.

[Captain Zissou]

Perhaps we should put it this way all of the fortune 1000 companies head quartered in Jax are in the core.  Well I guess Winn Dixie would be just outside the core at Edgewood and Casset. If you want to attract those kinds of business to head quarter and invest in your city the core is the area that needs to impress.  No judgment that is just the way it is.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  What about BCBS who has over 4,000 employees on the southside, DB has 1,200+, Merrill has 2,000+, BoA has 1,000+, Vistakon has nearly 1,000....?  While these aren't headquarters, they're a TON of people.  

[thelakelander]

I suppose if you are % change driven our urban growth 41% change would be impressive. I'm sure the highrise condo developers would like to see the move. I don't think we've really seen a wave of movement yet.

I agree, that we have not really seen the wave like we should have.  Areas like LaVilla and Brooklyn should have enjoyed major redevelopment booms during the last decade.  Talleyrand should be a lot more than a few old houses scattered in an industrial wasteland adjacent to the port.  Warehouse districts along Myrtle Avenue and in Springfield should be resembling budding loft districts like the Portland's Pearl, Denver's LODO, Atlanta's Castleberry Hill, Miami's Design District, Tampa's Channel District and Milwaukee's Third Ward.  Because we've not deemed the core to be any type of high priority, we're on the path to falling further behind our peers economically and our budget continues to spiral out of control through the subsidization of unsustainable growth patterns.

[thelakelander]

Perhaps we should put it this way all of the fortune 1000 companies head quartered in Jax are in the core.  Well I guess Winn Dixie would be just outside the core at Edgewood and Casset. If you want to attract those kinds of business to head quarter and invest in your city the core is the area that needs to impress.  No judgment that is just the way it is.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  What about BCBS who has over 4,000 employees on the southside, DB has 1,200+, Merrill has 2,000+, BoA has 1,000+, Vistakon has nearly 1,000....?  While these aren't headquarters, they're a TON of people. 

Sounds like Tampa's Westshore, Orlando's Maitland, Detroit's Southfield and Atlanta's Buckhead.  Every city has a suburban office district.  The major difference between every other place in Jacksonville is they've also had the foresight to provide viable urban atmospheres as counterbalance.

[JeffreyS]

Perhaps we should put it this way all of the fortune 1000 companies head quartered in Jax are in the core.  Well I guess Winn Dixie would be just outside the core at Edgewood and Casset. If you want to attract those kinds of business to head quarter and invest in your city the core is the area that needs to impress.  No judgment that is just the way it is.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  What about BCBS who has over 4,000 employees on the southside, DB has 1,200+, Merrill has 2,000+, BoA has 1,000+, Vistakon has nearly 1,000....?  While these aren't headquarters, they're a TON of people.  

Companies tend to be more involved with the communities where they are headquartered look at how active BoA is in Charlotte compared to here.  There is a difference between the type of benefit you get from a company that wants a quality urban setting and one just looking for the cheapest sq ft cost in an office park.

I am not however on the let's somehow punish or hold back the southside chorus.

[JeffreyS]

I think we need to be already looking at ways to preserve what we have gained on the southside so as to not repeat the sprawl boom and crash seen in past areas like regency and gateway.

[Captain Zissou]

There is a difference between the type of benefit you get from a company that wants a quality urban setting and one just looking for the cheapest sq ft cost in an office park.

So what would you say about a company that used to be downtown and then left for the Southside (Modis, for starters)?

[Doctor_K]

There is a difference between the type of benefit you get from a company that wants a quality urban setting and one just looking for the cheapest sq ft cost in an office park.

So what would you say about a company that used to be downtown and then left for the Southside (Modis, for starters)?

Shame on the city for not offering incentives to keep them downtown - monetary, civic, or otherwise.