Author Topic: Salvaging The Skyway  (Read 16949 times)

BrSpiritus

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Re: Salvaging The Skyway
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2011, 09:11:53 PM »
Quote
I do remain very skeptical that Jax bus riders and commuters will relish or find very practical an extra 15 to 30 minutes and the "hassle" of transferring from one mode of transit to the Skyway for that last mile downtown but knock yourself out and see what happens.  Test the "academic" theory against real world dynamics.

Why not? We did it in Baltimore with the light rail.  I used to take the #10 bus downtown, transfer to light rail to Patapsco station then the bus to Arundel Mills Mall.  People will grouse, but they will get used to whatever new transit plans are implemented and I think if the long run brings shorter headways and more efficient service there will be little complaining.

Ocklawaha

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Re: Salvaging The Skyway
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2011, 11:27:11 PM »
In 2010
 
OMNI HOTEL BUILDING

Omni Jacksonville paid $323,198.50
AV Group at the Omni paid $735.57
Lodgenet Entertainment paid $133.71
T-Mobile paid $1,440.21
Omni Hotel Corp paid $51,493.07

WELLS FARGO BUILDING

CB Richard Ellis paid $4,673.33
Equitable Life paid  $365.55
Rutledge Law paid  $681.24
Allstate Ins paid  $337.59
Craig/IS ltd paid  $14,532.40
Gunster Law paid  $4,378.42
Smith Haulsey Busey paid  $8,007.94
Foundation Financial paid  $502.03
HUB OEC Properties paid  $610,038.42

HILTON-HOMEWOOD SUITES BUILDING

Alex Brown Reality paid  $200,871.80
San Marco Hotel Partners  paid  $77,940.19
John Wagner paid  $2,103.31

Just a few of the "fares" paid to the City by the Skyway last year...


OCKLAWAHA

avonjax

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Re: Salvaging The Skyway
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2011, 11:27:13 PM »
Early this evening I was talking to some young people about downtown, the Skyway and other related topics.
We talked about Art Walk and I told them they should check it out. The response from them was, "There is no place to park." I told them that Art Walk was at night after business hours. Again they said "there is no place to park." I kindly explained that there are more parking garages and surface parking lots than buildings. Finally the young lady said, "I can't parallel park." This, I am afraid, is the perception that keeps many people from going downtown. I guess they think all parking is parallel parking and the effort is not worth it.

BrSpiritus

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Re: Salvaging The Skyway
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2011, 11:50:26 PM »
How the heck do people pass the road test if they can't parallel park?  At any rate parallel parking not required at a parking garage duh.

danem

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Re: Salvaging The Skyway
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2011, 12:49:02 AM »
Early this evening I was talking to some young people about downtown, the Skyway and other related topics.
We talked about Art Walk and I told them they should check it out. The response from them was, "There is no place to park." I told them that Art Walk was at night after business hours. Again they said "there is no place to park." I kindly explained that there are more parking garages and surface parking lots than buildings. Finally the young lady said, "I can't parallel park." This, I am afraid, is the perception that keeps many people from going downtown. I guess they think all parking is parallel parking and the effort is not worth it.

I would have to say this is true. If I hadn't made a deliberate attempt to explore all of the city after I moved here, I wouldn't have known any of this either.

Doctor_K

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Re: Salvaging The Skyway
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2011, 10:32:17 AM »
In 2010
 
OMNI HOTEL BUILDING

Omni Jacksonville paid $323,198.50
AV Group at the Omni paid $735.57
Lodgenet Entertainment paid $133.71
T-Mobile paid $1,440.21
Omni Hotel Corp paid $51,493.07

WELLS FARGO BUILDING

CB Richard Ellis paid $4,673.33
Equitable Life paid  $365.55
Rutledge Law paid  $681.24
Allstate Ins paid  $337.59
Craig/IS ltd paid  $14,532.40
Gunster Law paid  $4,378.42
Smith Haulsey Busey paid  $8,007.94
Foundation Financial paid  $502.03
HUB OEC Properties paid  $610,038.42

HILTON-HOMEWOOD SUITES BUILDING

Alex Brown Reality paid  $200,871.80
San Marco Hotel Partners  paid  $77,940.19
John Wagner paid  $2,103.31

Just a few of the "fares" paid to the City by the Skyway last year...


OCKLAWAHA

Help me out Ock, I'm having a senior moment - that equates to $1,301,433.28 for the year.  Is that Skyway revenue?
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thelakelander

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Re: Salvaging The Skyway
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2011, 11:03:40 AM »
Ock is claiming that these three developments are actually transit oriented developments that would not exist today if the skyway were never constructed.  The property taxes they generated last year add up to $1,301,433.28.  So these TODs/TADs represent a "hidden" $1.34 million in annual revenue driven in by the Skyway.  Thus, if we can get into the business of integrating land use with transit, not only would we increase transit ridership, promote economic development and revitalization within the urban core, Jacksonville could actually turn a profit from the stimulation of property tax paying transit oriented development.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 11:06:16 AM by thelakelander »
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fsujax

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Re: Salvaging The Skyway
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2011, 11:07:47 AM »
Ock, brings up a great point that many overlook. The developer of that particular project actually mentioned that the proximity of the Skyway played a role in decision making process.

dougskiles

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Re: Salvaging The Skyway
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2011, 02:18:32 PM »
The Skyway has become nothing more than a political scapegoat.  Pure and simple, the Skyway has low ridership numbers because downtown has low occupancy rates.

The numbers have been increasing by my observation recently.  But, with one track down for maintenance in San Marco it has doubled the headway times.  Does anyone know when it will be restored to full service?

thelakelander

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Re: Salvaging The Skyway
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2011, 02:26:38 PM »
Notice that the ridership numbers have been increasing despite downtown still declining at the same time.  This is due to JTA beginning to streamline routes and better integrate them with the skyway.  While the thing does not extend outside of DT and DT is in a state of decline, simple elimination of existing transit route duplication and the conversion of its role as a DT circulator into a transit system spine will dramatically increase ridership on its own.  Thus, we can utilize and instantly increase its usage with existing transit system modifications in a manner that saves us money. Assuming we can now turn our attention to actually integrating it with the surrounding land uses, then you have a potential success story on your hands that you'll be able to leverage for additional transit investment in the city.
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wsansewjs

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Re: Salvaging The Skyway
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2011, 02:39:22 PM »
Notice that the ridership numbers have been increasing despite downtown still declining at the same time.  This is due to JTA beginning to streamline routes and better integrate them with the skyway.  While the thing does not extend outside of DT and DT is in a state of decline, simple elimination of existing transit route duplication and the conversion of its role as a DT circulator into a transit system spine will dramatically increase ridership on its own.  Thus, we can utilize and instantly increase its usage with existing transit system modifications in a manner that saves us money. Assuming we can now turn our attention to actually integrating it with the surrounding land uses, then you have a potential success story on your hands that you'll be able to leverage for additional transit investment in the city.

So basically, you need to get the RIGHT mayor in there to yank the scrapegoats in JTA and make them run for their executive lives, then hire the right folks to do what you said.

That got to be the biggest WINNING than Charlie Sheen will ever do.

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JeffreyS

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Re: Salvaging The Skyway
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2011, 03:01:30 PM »
Notice that the ridership numbers have been increasing despite downtown still declining at the same time.  This is due to JTA beginning to streamline routes and better integrate them with the skyway.  While the thing does not extend outside of DT and DT is in a state of decline, simple elimination of existing transit route duplication and the conversion of its role as a DT circulator into a transit system spine will dramatically increase ridership on its own.  Thus, we can utilize and instantly increase its usage with existing transit system modifications in a manner that saves us money. Assuming we can now turn our attention to actually integrating it with the surrounding land uses, then you have a potential success story on your hands that you'll be able to leverage for additional transit investment in the city.
They also changed the entire north-south route to run end to end instead of everyone transferring at central station. That made the kings ave to hemming plaza take about half as long.
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bill

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Re: Salvaging The Skyway
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2011, 03:56:55 PM »
Some of this is fuzzy math. Is the skyway responsible for the 10,000 jobs that left DT?
One of the few good points is about parking. Yes there is plenty of parking but no one knows about it. The ticket nazis make it impossible during the day and the garages are hidden weekends and after hours.
Just like the skyway, if you make it hard they will not come. 

JeffreyS

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Re: Salvaging The Skyway
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2011, 04:24:02 PM »
Some of this is fuzzy math. Is the skyway responsible for the 10,000 jobs that left DT?
One of the few good points is about parking. Yes there is plenty of parking but no one knows about it. The ticket nazis make it impossible during the day and the garages are hidden weekends and after hours.
Just like the skyway, if you make it hard they will not come. 

Yes quantifying is not an exact science. You can note that these developments stated that the skyway was a consideration for them going downtown. I have not seen anyone mention the skyway as a reason for leaving.
Lenny Smash

urbaknight

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Re: Salvaging The Skyway
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2011, 04:27:45 PM »
At least expand it to the sports complex, then watch the ridership increase 10 fold.

I don't think so.  Most of the time there's nothing going on east of Liberty St.  Are there really enough events at the sports complex to justify the cost?


I think so, we have the Jags and at the arena we have the Sharks and the Giants. We also have the Suns. There can be concerts the arena as well. I believe it would idea maybe increasing ridership 10 fold was a wishfull exaggeration. But if it goes down bay st I'd put a stop where the Annex building stands today, in order to serve the growing scene on east bay st.