Author Topic: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax  (Read 7823 times)

tufsu1

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Re: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2010, 11:45:40 AM »
Does anyone know if there is documentation on the quality of life benefits of the JRTC?  

For example...

1. What would be its economic impact?

2. How many people would it employ?

3. What would be the impact on greenhouse gas emissions or VMT?

4. What would be the average annual wage of those employed at the JRTC?

5. What type of ancillary businesses (indirect job creation) would the JRTC be expected to attract?

I assume if this information exist, it would have been packaged within the submittal to make the project better stand out amongst the competition?

Also, if it is out there, its something that would be a great marketing tool for this project to the local population and city leadership.

having been involved with several TIGER II grant apps (for perhaps not-so-worthy projects) these estimates are pretty much fabricated.

Captain Zissou

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Re: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2010, 12:05:37 PM »
Im not surprised. Nobody takes Jacksonville or our needs seriously. Its kinda depressing. If we want things done, we have to make them happen because nobody cares to assist us. Weve seen that time and time again.

Jax doesn't even take our own needs seriously.  I spent a couple weeks in Charlotte a couple years ago, and I was inundated with announcements about their improvements and projects going on.  It was beyond civic pride.  It was a confidence in the city that they were doing something great and were going to be something great, regardless of what it took to get there.  Jax has none of this.

We need to build up the public sentiment and make the city actually believe that we can accomplish some of the things this forum talks about.  The members of this forum are great, but Stephen can't open 50 Boomtowns, Ennis can't design and develop Springfield by himself, and Ock probably can't lay 30 miles of track connecting DT and the beach.  We need to inspire our people to do their part to make Jax better.  Support local restaurants, buy local products, invest in local art, and support the core. 

This is what I think we need from our mayor and leadership.  A champion for the community with the courage to stand up to big businesses and developers and bring us back to the core.

thelakelander

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Re: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2010, 12:26:05 PM »
Does anyone know if there is documentation on the quality of life benefits of the JRTC?  

For example...

1. What would be its economic impact?

2. How many people would it employ?

3. What would be the impact on greenhouse gas emissions or VMT?

4. What would be the average annual wage of those employed at the JRTC?

5. What type of ancillary businesses (indirect job creation) would the JRTC be expected to attract?

I assume if this information exist, it would have been packaged within the submittal to make the project better stand out amongst the competition?

Also, if it is out there, its something that would be a great marketing tool for this project to the local population and city leadership.

having been involved with several TIGER II grant apps (for perhaps not-so-worthy projects) these estimates are pretty much fabricated.

Just like the argument of BRT being a suitable alternative to LRT.  However, when it comes to selling a concept and getting it pushed through, marketing becomes just as important as the technical side of things.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Singejoufflue

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Re: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2010, 07:02:39 PM »
For the third time in a week I have heard someone refer to Jax as "the biggest small-town" or some such variation.  I have to wonder if there is fear in the community about becoming too "city-fied" with a big ol' downtown and speedy trains and real integration/diversity...

I ask you Cap'n Z (and the others), what is the "core" to which we are returning?  Does anyone in Jax have an honest idea what its citizens today are seeking as a city identity?  Charlotte progressed because that population embraced the idea of "city-life" and leadership took them there.  What is Jax embracing? 

A turnaround in Jacksonville will have to encompass more than just DVI and revitalizing the urban core.  The city is 885 sq mi, not just the 20 blocks Jacksonville was in 1822.

I'm well on-board with a full out marketing blitz for JTA, COJ, and anything else that isn't as bad as so many tend to think...we just need a message, then a plan...but first we need an identity.

CS Foltz

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Re: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2010, 07:26:04 PM »
Just out of curiousity, do you have a vision of Jacksonville should be? Could be the new Switzerland of the South or Rail Hub of Southeastern United States. Could be Port of the South or the Worlds Biggest Taco Stand, could be the Medical Center of Florida.....I am open for idea's........whatcha got?

Singejoufflue

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Re: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2010, 08:16:26 PM »
Every time I land in Jax, I love that all you see are billowy, dense green treetops and then, far off in the distance, a lone click of buildings starts to emerge.  We already have the largest urban park system, a built-in focus! I would prefer the parks/preserves be connected by public transportation and walkable paths where appropriate.  For me, the city would remain on a low, personal scale; no more sky-scrapers, and the giant office buildings need to be shrouded by live oaks and magnolias (maybe some kudzu).  I think the major neighborhoods (Arlington, Mandarin, Southside, etc.) could be distinct little enclaves with specific flair where you can truly live within a 5-mile radius and not have to drive across town to the big-box and are anchored by public libraries and civic centers/museums/higher-learning institutions, plus it's unique ecological feature.  Neighborhood schools where students ride bikes or walk instead of buses. The economy is driven by transportation and logistics companies, educational institutions and research facilities along with great medical options for the snowbirds and half-backs.  Bucolic, natural, unobtrusive, with a dash of modern and pinch of progressive.

Jacksonville should be the place you want to: have a picnic or throw a frisbee; cruise casually down the river on a hot day; crisp to a golden brown on beautiful beaches; meander down a sun-dappled sidewalk, under an archway of craggy oak branches and drooping Spanish moss: sit on your porch and hear the neighborhood kids giggling on a playground.  A city that knows how to play with what they're given.  In short, America's backyard. =)

dougskiles

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Re: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2010, 08:50:57 PM »
I just signed up as a member to your forum - and am excited to know that there are some people passionate about improving Jacksonville.  I know I could probably find the answer to this question if I search past topics:  Is there a collective effort amongst members to take some of these ideas to the city leaders?  I would love to see a light rail system in Jacksonville (if for no other reason than it would be really cool).  I would also like to see us (Jacksonville) stop giving away our public land downtown (shipyards, southside generating station to name a few).  I also love bike riding and wish I could do it more safely.  I am willing to talk to council members and board members about these things - and would be even happier to do it as part of a group.  Sorry if I went too far away from the topic.

BridgeTroll

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Re: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2010, 06:28:54 AM »
Welcome Doug.  Every issue and question you raised has been researched, written about and discussed here.  You have joined the right forum if you are interested in these subjects and want to be part of the solution.  I encourage you to read some of the Metro Jacksonvile generated articles regarding the subjects you mentioned... you will be glad you did! :)
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Cricket

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Re: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2010, 09:01:19 AM »
Jacksonville should be the place you want to: have a picnic or throw a frisbee; cruise casually down the river on a hot day; crisp to a golden brown on beautiful beaches; meander down a sun-dappled sidewalk, under an archway of craggy oak branches and drooping Spanish moss: sit on your porch and hear the neighborhood kids giggling on a playground.  A city that knows how to play with what they're given.  In short, America's backyard. =)

Well, unfortunately we can't go back to the world of F. Scott Fitzgerald in the early 1920s when cities were awash with money. But at this moment we need leaders who can inspire and instill a love for Jax. I remember when NYC was an armpit before the leaders came up with the  "I love NY" theme. The other problem is that we all scream bloody murder whenever there is mention of a new tax targeted to some worthy endeavor. We gotta help ourselves.
"If we bring not the good courage of minds covetous of truth, and truth only, prepared to hear all things, and decide upon all things, according to evidence, we should do more wisely to sit down contented in ignorance, than to bestir ourselves only to reap disappointment."

BridgeTroll

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Re: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2010, 10:57:57 AM »
Quote
The other problem is that we all scream bloody murder whenever there is mention of a new tax targeted to some worthy endeavor.

I think there might be less screaming if a tax was indeed targeted and finite.  For example... a small increase in a local tax or service for a defined period of time and the money used for that specific project.  Once the defined period is expired or the money collected for the project the tax discontinues.

The reason people "scream" is that the tax never goes away and our friendly government uses the money for some other purpose and then asks for more...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

JeffreyS

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Re: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2010, 11:23:08 AM »
I agree bridge troll  after all jacksonville voted for the better jacksonville plan . that plan was pretty progressive more taxes for  a quality of life .  what you have to have is a strong leader selling it to the public mayor delaney was able to do that .
Lenny Smash

BridgeTroll

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Re: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2010, 12:59:01 PM »
The BJP is a pretty good example of what I was talking about.  I would consider even that plan a bit too broad and ambitious.  A smaller more well defined targeted goal might induce quicker results.  For example... a Trolley connecting Riverside with Downtown and Springfield.  It will cost x amount of dollars and we can raise those funds in 3 years with a 1% sales tax or JEA tax.  After three years the tax ends the trolley is built and a new well defined and targeted goal is identified.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

fieldafm

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Re: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2010, 01:03:35 PM »
Quote
I agree bridge troll  after all jacksonville voted for the better jacksonville plan . that plan was pretty progressive more taxes for  a quality of life .  what you have to have is a strong leader selling it to the public mayor delaney was able to do that .


Agree.  There are countless examples in the history of the city where everyone has rallied around a particular cause.  The cause must be 100% clear, it must be viewed as beneficial, and it must be sold by very strong leadership.

BridgeTroll

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Re: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2010, 01:22:31 PM »
Exactly.  The reason people complain about taxes is they seem to disappear into the black hole of government and the folks who actually pay the taxes do not seem to have any control over what they are buying.  Those funds cannot be diverted to some new "pet" project.  The best part is... the tax ends at the end of the designated time.  People at that time would be able to say... "That worked well lets continue for 3 years and do x and x"... OR... "that sure sucked and you better do things better before we approve something like that again."
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

CS Foltz

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Re: TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2010, 08:37:32 PM »
+1