Author Topic: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood  (Read 42719 times)

elr

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Re: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2010, 05:42:34 PM »
I wish we had more old oak trees like Gainesville does. The kind that form a canopy over the street. Just sayin.

fieldafm

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Re: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2010, 05:58:05 PM »
I wish we had more old oak trees like Gainesville does. The kind that form a canopy over the street. Just sayin.

That is a major focus of RAP now.  In fact, RAP and Greenscape had a killer deal on Oaks last fall.

ubben

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Re: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2010, 10:00:02 PM »
As far as trees go, there used to be a beautiful, unique line of mature live oaks all along the entire west side of the Shoppes of Avondale. The city of Jacksonville and Blue Fish Restaurant cut down a total of FIVE of them on the north end just this summer. They were replanted with small drake elm trees and two palms--the same size as you'd find in the parking lot of the Avenues Mall. Sadly, due to indifference and lack of vision, we lost a graceful part of our neighborhood that can never be replaced in our lifetimes.

Dog Walker

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Re: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2010, 09:08:37 AM »
Ubben,  A lot of the oak trees in Riverside/Avondale were planted 60-70 years ago.  They are Laurel and Water Oaks and are reaching the end of their lives.

RAP, Greenscape and the City are replacing them with Live Oaks where they can (power line concerns) and the canopy will regenerate in another decade.
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ubben

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Re: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood
« Reply #49 on: November 08, 2010, 08:17:32 AM »
These were live oaks, confirmed by a local landscape architect. They were the same trees that extend from Cowford Traders down past the Brick. Live Oaks.

Jumpinjack

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Re: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood
« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2010, 09:37:43 AM »
When I look at how the street canopy has been mutilated by the electric and cable companies, it will be a miracle if those trees survive. You can't cut 100+ yr old trees into alphabet shapes and expect what is left to support continued growth.

ChriswUfGator

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Re: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood
« Reply #51 on: November 08, 2010, 10:00:18 AM »
Ubben,  A lot of the oak trees in Riverside/Avondale were planted 60-70 years ago.  They are Laurel and Water Oaks and are reaching the end of their lives.

RAP, Greenscape and the City are replacing them with Live Oaks where they can (power line concerns) and the canopy will regenerate in another decade.

Dog, I can speak personally with I say JEA is full of B.S. about a lot of these trees they're cutting down. Many of them have nothing wrong with them, and there are several different species including live oaks in Riverside. JEA has a policy that gets rid of anything that they feel may interfere with a power line during a storm, and this policy is responsible for most of the canopy loss in Riverside during the last 5 years. Which I think is a bit ridiculous, I'd rather bury the line before tearing down a tree that will take decades to replace, and then not only do they not replace the tree, but they don't even bother to pull the stumps so you cannot possibly replace the tree.

And the ones that were torn down on St. Johns in Avondale were especially annoying, as JEA had no sooner gotten rid of them than COJ came through and decided to bury all the power lines as part of the streetscape project. I am glad RAP is (finally) on this issue. In the decade I've lived here, we've lost probably half the tree canopy.

Some of the trees were water oaks, and I understand you only get so long out of those, but many were other species and had nothing wrong with them, other than that JEA believed they would interfere with power lines in a windstorm. I know this because several times I've asked crews why they were cutting various trees down, and they said JEA does inspections and if they think a tree would encroach on a power line during a windsotm, then it goes. I have observed they got much more serious about it after that tropical storm a few years ago.


simms3

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Re: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood
« Reply #52 on: November 08, 2010, 10:01:18 AM »
Sad sad sad JEA really screws everything up, including plumbing/sewer, too...
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Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood
« Reply #53 on: November 08, 2010, 10:02:09 AM »
Just envision how nice the Edgewood corridor will look in 15 years when the magnolias have matured, creating a canopy so impenetrable that there will be no sunlight or grass beneath.  IMO the trees that they just planted a few months ago was total overkill.
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ChriswUfGator

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Re: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood
« Reply #54 on: November 08, 2010, 10:08:48 AM »
Just envision how nice the Edgewood corridor will look in 15 years when the magnolias have matured, creating a canopy so impenetrable that there will be no sunlight or grass beneath.  IMO the trees that they just planted a few months ago was total overkill.

IMO, the tree canopy is what separates Jacksonville from the Miamis and Tampas of the state. Almost every Florida city used to have wonderful foliage, but beginning in the 1980s road widenings, public works projects, streetscaping projects, and concerns over trimming and maintenance costs led most to get rid of most of the foliage.

Most of the original residential areas of Jacksonville, including Springfield, Riverside, San Marco, Ortega, St. Nicholas, old Mandarin, and many others, still had their tree canopies fully intact as of 2000. Unfortunately, once JEA unilaterally declared itself a for-profit enterprise despite being wholly taxpayer-owned (Stephendare has more information on that topic if you're interested), they have destroyed a good 1/3 of this original canopy, probably over 1/2 in Riverside, because it is cheaper than rerouting or burying the power lines they may interfere with.

The canopy is nice, and I think Edgewood will look nice when it grows in. Historically, that's the appearance of a traditional Florida city. Tree canopies were highly valued, providing much needed shade and coolness in the days before air conditioning. We are one of the few Florida cities, or at least we were until recently, that kept this asset.


Dog Walker

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Re: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood
« Reply #55 on: November 08, 2010, 10:44:06 AM »
What JEA is doing with our tree canopy is outrageous.  We would all also scream bloody murder if our power went out for hours every time we had a thunderstorm.

We need to get our utility lines underground so we can quit looking like a third world country.

One of the things we remarked on while watching the Tour de France was that there were no visible power lines in any of the towns that the Tour went through.
When all else fails hug the dog.

finehoe

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Re: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood
« Reply #56 on: November 08, 2010, 12:32:59 PM »
One of the reasons South Florida's tree canopy seems lacking is that back in the day they planted almost nothing but Coconut Palms.  Then when Lethal Yellowing hit big in the late 70s-early 80s it decimated whole neighborhoods.

The lesson we should take away is plant a diversity of species.  Don't rely on a single tree, no matter how beautiful they may be.  Especially in light of things like this:  http://www.suddenoakdeath.org/

reednavy

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Re: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood
« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2010, 12:56:30 PM »
One of the reasons South Florida's tree canopy seems lacking is that back in the day they planted almost nothing but Coconut Palms.  Then when Lethal Yellowing hit big in the late 70s-early 80s it decimated whole neighborhoods.

The lesson we should take away is plant a diversity of species.  Don't rely on a single tree, no matter how beautiful they may be.  Especially in light of things like this:  http://www.suddenoakdeath.org/
Actually, the main reasoning there is because they have more frequent tropical systems, which affects the height and size of trees. This is why a drive on I-95 SB you have a dramatic shift in canopy height once you hit Brevard County.
Jacksonville: We're not vertically challenged, just horizontally gifted!

finehoe

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Re: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood
« Reply #58 on: November 08, 2010, 02:44:14 PM »
The size and heights of the trees have little or nothing to do with the number of trees planted.

Cocos nucifera can grow to be 90 ft. tall.  They're not there because Lethal Yellowing disease killed most of them off, not because hurricanes knocked them down.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 02:57:53 PM by finehoe »

reednavy

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Re: Riverside Avondale an American Top 10 Neighborhood
« Reply #59 on: November 08, 2010, 04:31:01 PM »
Last time I checked, they are still all over the place and that is just the main genus name. There are many different types of Coconut Palms from all over the world that are found in SoFla. The Jamaican Tall variety is most susceptible, and you don't find 90ft tall trees in SoFla anyways because they either get blown over or lightning strikes and kills the tree.

I never refered to #s being planted anyways, I am talking about the fact the trees are kept in check by tropical systems or killed by them in various ways. It is pretty simple to realize that NE FL has a massive tree canopy because it is hit less frequently by hurricanes. The more frquent, the shorter trees will be and such.
Jacksonville: We're not vertically challenged, just horizontally gifted!