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1

Downtown / Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap

« Last post by jaxlongtimer on Today at 11:14:10 AM »

Anyone note the date (December 2nd) the City was notified that the NPS wasn't biting on a swap?  This was during the intense discussions about Lot J and when the Jag's were dangling the Four Seasons at Metro Park as another development bonus.  It doesn't appear the Curry administration shared the info before the Lot J vote.  I wonder what impact it would have had if the Council knew this very relevant development.  More Curry manipulations?  It appears an investigation by the Council is in order.

The Florida Department of Environmental Protection notified city attorney John Sawyer on Dec. 2 that the National Park Service will not consider the Shipyards as replacement property for Metropolitan Park.

“I wanted to let you know that NPS has responded to the City’s proposal of the Shipyards as replacement property for the Metro Park conversion,” department Land and Recreation Grants Program Manager Rebecca Wood wrote to Sawyer, governmental operations department chief of the city Office of General Counsel.

“NPS has reiterated that the purpose of reviewing the additional properties identified by the City thus far was because the Shipyards will not be considered as replacement property for Metro Park,” Wood wrote. “Please let me know if the City has any additional properties to review.”

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/national-park-service-rejected-shipyards-swap-for-metropolitan-park-in-december

2

Downtown / Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap

« Last post by fieldafm on Today at 08:52:03 AM »

Definitely agree with fieldafm on Columbus Commons. In the time we've talked about what to do with the Shipyards, they've had a functional mall run out of business, close, get demolished, recreated as a park with building pads and seen all of those pads incrementally developed with mixed-use infill. This stuff isn't rocket science. Jax just needs to get out of its own way.

As for the National Park Service, like Lot J, this process of swapping land is another time consuming, money wasting thing. There's nothing wrong with leaving Metropolitan Park where it is and developing on other properties around it. If there's one thing we have in abundance in and around downtown, it's empty, city owned property.

I mean, its not like this conversation is anything new.  It's only another decade and a few more Mayoral administrations to waste.  The redevelopment of the Shipyards has been a discussion that occupies time and money since basically 2000. The push to drive development and public money away from the walkable core of the City and towards the Sports District has been going on since basically 2008. When you step back and ponder on that for a moment... that's a lot of time and money spent spinning wheels. Both time and money are valuable... perhaps even more of a valuable commodity then some empty land?  Maybe its best to spend both on something that won't drag on for another 20 years?

https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-may-creating-synergy-history-the-landing-or-metro-park

3

Downtown / Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap

« Last post by thelakelander on Today at 08:36:48 AM »

Definitely agree with fieldafm on Columbus Commons. In the time we've talked about what to do with the Shipyards, they've had a functional mall run out of business, close, get demolished, recreated as a park with building pads and seen all of those pads incrementally developed with mixed-use infill. This stuff isn't rocket science. Jax just needs to get out of its own way.

As for the National Park Service, like Lot J, this process of swapping land is another time consuming, money wasting thing. There's nothing wrong with leaving Metropolitan Park where it is and developing on other properties around it. If there's one thing we have in abundance in and around downtown, it's empty, city owned property.

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Downtown / Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap

« Last post by fieldafm on Today at 08:11:44 AM »

Perhaps this only interests me... but it should be noted that the original Shipyards proposal almost two decades ago included 16 acres of park space. That would be 16 acres of new park space, to go along with the 24 acres that already existed/exists at MetroPark.





Been saying it for years, but Columbus Commons should be the model for the Shipyards.  The public pays for the public space, master plans the site, and then sells individual parcels to developers that build to the uses and design conformity within your master plan. Basically, the public is the master developer who gets the site ready to market and sells the land to individual developers.  The model for the Shipyards has always been- Give the land to the Jaguars (who won the RFP in 2015, not one shovel in the ground almost 6 years later), LandMar (bankrupt) or TriLegacy (bankrupt) as the master developer, the City gives the master developer the money to get the site ready to market, and the master developer then sells individual parcels to other developers.  Its an all or nothing approach, that has failed at least twice.... and maybe/maybe not a third time.

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/getting-it-right-columbus-commons/

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Downtown / Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap

« Last post by fieldafm on Today at 07:57:49 AM »

Development as it relates to the Jags is toast now.

I think that's a stretch, with all due respect. There is plenty of land to develop. All of this below is owned by the City, and none of these parcels are parkland. This land, as with Lot J, requires remediation.





The biggest difference between the actual Shipyards property vs Lot J/Metro Park.. is that the latter is directly next to Dailys Place.  In that respect, lots M, N and P to the East of Lot J (shown below, essentially the old Coliseum site) as well as the current practice fields... are all developable parcels that don't have breached slur walls underground spreading contaminants into a retention pond.  None of those options also require additional tens of millions of dollars to recreate a park (planting grass along the river does not count as 'parkspace').






I also don't read that article and come to the conclusion that the final word on Metro Park has been written. The article and informal email chain only emphasizes what we already knew to be true.... that any effort to swap Met Park faces many uphill battles.

Mike Mendenhall provides a little more color than the JBJ article, which seemed like a rushed product to get onto the web first. 

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/national-park-service-rejected-shipyards-swap-for-metropolitan-park-in-december

Not surprisingly, floating ideas about park land swaps without providing much in the way of details- like a formal plan to fully remediate, amenitize and fund your proposed park space... doesn't impress the National Park Service. 

The informal emails are par for the course for Curry's administration's entire strategy towards Downtown... tear lots of things down, make references to vague and unvetted future plans, and worry about figuring out how to do any of it later (or never).   

6

News / Re: Trump planning to raise $2 billion for a presidential library, likely in Florida

« Last post by Adam White on Today at 07:48:54 AM »

The guy got 74 million votes and over 46% of those who voted, voted for him.

I hate to break it to you, but he's popular (almost) everywhere.

It will be interesting, with the passage of time and Trump's legacy not standing up well to history, to see how many of those 74 million "can't recall" voting for Trump.  It's amazing how many fair weather friends populate the electorate.  We already see this with polling post the election and other recent events.

By the way, if you didn't catch it, be sure to watch a replay of the amazing poem offered today at the inauguration by super gifted/word prodigy Amanda Gordon, only 22 years old but wise way beyond her years, and the nation's youngest poet to participate in an inauguration.  History will likely quote her words, like Maya Angelou's poem recited for Bill Clinton's inauguration, far longer than any other words spoken today.  If you don't find it moving, you may not have blood in your veins .

I didn't bother watching the inauguration and am not too fussed about the poem. In spite of studying English in college, I have never been a huge fan of poetry - at least not a fan of listening to people reading it. I don't mind reading it myself - but vapid platitudes about the USA aren't really my cup of tea. A lot of people seemed to like it, though - at least based on what I've seen in my Facebook news feed. That said, I recall a lot of people liking Angelou's poem and that was terrible.

Philistine.

I know. I'm the absolute worst.

7

News / Re: Trump planning to raise $2 billion for a presidential library, likely in Florida

« Last post by Tacachale on Today at 07:30:23 AM »

The guy got 74 million votes and over 46% of those who voted, voted for him.

I hate to break it to you, but he's popular (almost) everywhere.

It will be interesting, with the passage of time and Trump's legacy not standing up well to history, to see how many of those 74 million "can't recall" voting for Trump.  It's amazing how many fair weather friends populate the electorate.  We already see this with polling post the election and other recent events.

By the way, if you didn't catch it, be sure to watch a replay of the amazing poem offered today at the inauguration by super gifted/word prodigy Amanda Gordon, only 22 years old but wise way beyond her years, and the nation's youngest poet to participate in an inauguration.  History will likely quote her words, like Maya Angelou's poem recited for Bill Clinton's inauguration, far longer than any other words spoken today.  If you don't find it moving, you may not have blood in your veins .

I didn't bother watching the inauguration and am not too fussed about the poem. In spite of studying English in college, I have never been a huge fan of poetry - at least not a fan of listening to people reading it. I don't mind reading it myself - but vapid platitudes about the USA aren't really my cup of tea. A lot of people seemed to like it, though - at least based on what I've seen in my Facebook news feed. That said, I recall a lot of people liking Angelou's poem and that was terrible.

Philistine.

8

News / Re: Trump planning to raise $2 billion for a presidential library, likely in Florida

« Last post by Adam White on Today at 05:07:01 AM »

The guy got 74 million votes and over 46% of those who voted, voted for him.

I hate to break it to you, but he's popular (almost) everywhere.

It will be interesting, with the passage of time and Trump's legacy not standing up well to history, to see how many of those 74 million "can't recall" voting for Trump.  It's amazing how many fair weather friends populate the electorate.  We already see this with polling post the election and other recent events.

By the way, if you didn't catch it, be sure to watch a replay of the amazing poem offered today at the inauguration by super gifted/word prodigy Amanda Gordon, only 22 years old but wise way beyond her years, and the nation's youngest poet to participate in an inauguration.  History will likely quote her words, like Maya Angelou's poem recited for Bill Clinton's inauguration, far longer than any other words spoken today.  If you don't find it moving, you may not have blood in your veins .

I didn't bother watching the inauguration and am not too fussed about the poem. In spite of studying English in college, I have never been a huge fan of poetry - at least not a fan of listening to people reading it. I don't mind reading it myself - but vapid platitudes about the USA aren't really my cup of tea. A lot of people seemed to like it, though - at least based on what I've seen in my Facebook news feed. That said, I recall a lot of people liking Angelou's poem and that was terrible.

9

Parks, Recreation, and the Environment / Re: Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing Park Renderings

« Last post by Papa33 on Yesterday at 10:11:30 PM »

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/09/us/lift-every-voice-and-sing-trnd/

10

Downtown / Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap

« Last post by Florida Power And Light on Yesterday at 09:18:58 PM »

Nate Monroe nailed this one about a month back.

Curry, Hughes, and the OGC made no friends throughout this process.

And the right to pay back the grant and develop the land never existed in the feds’ opinion (hence the payback bill being revoked), even though that language actually is in the original agreement from the 80s.

Worth Repeating