The Jaxson

Community => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure => Topic started by: jaxlongtimer on June 14, 2022, 01:01:47 PM

Title: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: jaxlongtimer on June 14, 2022, 01:01:47 PM
Interesting proposal for Ft. Lauderdale by Elon Musk's Boring Company.  Not sure how they keep ground or storm waters from flooding the tunnel but I guess they think they have an answer for that.  Anyway, it is being suggested as a way to alleviate congestion between downtown Ft. Lauderdale and the beach,  I have driven Las Olas, the main connection, and haven't experienced issues any worse, maybe better, than other corridors to the beach there.  But, it was a weekday or maybe I was just lucky.

Quote
Three things to know about Boring Co.'s tunnel proposal for Fort Lauderdale

Fort Lauderdale could be the first city in Florida to partner with Boring Co. to construct a subterranean tunnel for electric vehicles.

This month, the commission agreed to pay Texas-based Boring Co. $375,000 to map out the route of the proposed Las Olas Loop and determine what the final cost would be to taxpayers. The infrastructure project, pitched as a way to alleviate the city's traffic congestion, would move passengers in an underground tunnel that connects downtown Fort Lauderdale with the beach. Passengers would be shuttled in self-driving Tesla vehicles.

The Boring Co., led by Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk, initially reached out to Fort Lauderdale with an unsolicited proposal for the tunnel last June, according to a copy of the document. Here's what else the Business Journal learned about the project from the proposal:

How many passengers will the Las Olas Loop move? That's still unknown.....

Don't confuse the Loop with the subway ....

Project designed with future expansion in mind ....

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2022/06/13/what-to-know-musk-boring-tunnel-fort-lauderdale.html?utm_source=st&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=me&utm_content=ja&ana=e_ja_me&j=28049763&senddate=2022-06-14

Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: Lunican on June 14, 2022, 01:17:44 PM
The prototype in Las Vegas is a failure. Why not invest in real transit instead of a gimmick?
Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: jaxlongtimer on June 14, 2022, 02:20:53 PM
^ Because Elon doesn't have enough money  ;D?
Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: thelakelander on June 14, 2022, 06:17:47 PM
Seems like a big waste of money. Take a lane out of Las Olas or Sunrise and run a bus, tram, LRT, streetcar, etc. at ground level. In the effort to be "different", for the hell of it, people can light money on fire doing some pretty dumb things. Don't overthink it. It's public transit, not rocket science.
Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: jaxjaguar on June 15, 2022, 03:17:17 PM
Not sure how they keep ground or storm waters from flooding the tunnel but I guess they think they have an answer for that.

Same way they keep it out of the Chunnel I reckon. If we can build a 31 mile long tunnel across the torrent Straight of Dover and 2 tunnels nearly 1000' below sea level in Norway, I'm sure a few dozen feet below Florida would be easy....
Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: jaxlongtimer on June 15, 2022, 09:49:33 PM
Not sure how they keep ground or storm waters from flooding the tunnel but I guess they think they have an answer for that.

Same way they keep it out of the Chunnel I reckon. If we can build a 31 mile long tunnel across the torrent Straight of Dover and 2 tunnels nearly 1000' below sea level in Norway, I'm sure a few dozen feet below Florida would be easy....

Well, I was thinking that limerock is relatively porous so unless they can seal the walls to hold back all that water, it could be an issue.  Look at what salt water intrusion did to Surfside's concrete.  What material would stand the test of time?  Is there a layer below the limerock that they can burrow down to that is not so porous?  And, this is before rising seas further exacerbate the issue.
Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: jaxjaguar on June 15, 2022, 11:38:50 PM
The Chunnel goes through 31 miles of chalk, below the English Channel, which is surrounded by salt water. Chalk is the most water-soluble form of limestone. It will literally dissolve in water. The casing of the tunnel is made from waterproof reinforced concrete so even if the chalk erodes away the tunnel will remain. It's not an unprecedented problem we couldn't engineer our way through. America just has a really bad habit of contracting with the lowest bidder and not properly maintaining structures after they're built (see basically every bridge in the country).

Another fun fact, the trains that run through the Chunnel are pressurized like a plane. Since you're 250' below water they want you to feel comfortable on the ride from England to France.

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-channel-tunnel-1779429#:~:text=On%20the%20British%20side%2C%20the,behind%20it%20using%20conveyor%20belts. (https://www.thoughtco.com/the-channel-tunnel-1779429#:~:text=On%20the%20British%20side%2C%20the,behind%20it%20using%20conveyor%20belts.)
Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: jaxlongtimer on June 16, 2022, 01:33:33 PM
^ Thanks for the info.  Interesting.
Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: Steve on June 16, 2022, 02:02:30 PM
^But to that point.....you can't connect England to France over land. There is none. The Chunnel cost $21B in 1994 dollars, which means it would be about double ($42B) today.

Given that this portion would be over land.....I can't fathom this making economic sense.
Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: thelakelander on June 16, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
This is from DT Fort Lauderdale to the beach. What's that? Maybe one or two miles tops down Las Olas Blvd? These people should stop sniffing the glue on this one.
Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: jaxjaguar on June 16, 2022, 03:32:45 PM
To be clear, I'm not saying the tunnel is the best solution in this scenario, but that they shouldn't be ruled out as an option just because "Florida is at/below sea-level". As for cost, the price of nearly any project will be more expensive in the future. It's better to spend the money now on public infrastructure than to wait decades hoping another solution will come along or that the cost to build will be less expensive. 

Public land is being bought up and hoarded at an alarming rate across the state due to urban sprawl. Soon the only options for public transit will be; A) eminent domaining our way through neighborhoods B) going below / over privately held land. Obviously, the latter is the most expensive option but we shouldn't avoid building something that will benefit the public just because it's "hard" or "expensive". Publicly funded projects aren't meant to generate profit, they're meant to improve quality of life.
Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: thelakelander on June 16, 2022, 07:19:56 PM
My only point was from a cost perspective. Take a lane out of an existing street, dedicate it to transit (bus, streetcar, LRT, AV, etc.) and call it a day. As a person in the industry, it's hard to see any logic in paying for a tunnel for any mode of transit to link these two specific destination points. Spend the billion saved in other areas that provide greater benefit to the community.
Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: tufsu1 on June 17, 2022, 12:32:41 PM
This is from DT Fort Lauderdale to the beach. What's that? Maybe one or two miles tops down Las Olas Blvd? These people should stop sniffing the glue on this one.

Miami's Mayor Suarez has also been talking with Musk about a tunnel under the Miami River (has been discussed for many years), and in several other areas of the city. FtL didn't want to be left out of the fun
Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: jaxlongtimer on June 17, 2022, 03:11:17 PM
^LOL, how about a tunnel under the St. Johns from University Blvd. to Timucuana?  A proposed crossing there has been around since about the 1950's but it was envisioned as a bridge.
Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: tufsu1 on June 20, 2022, 09:30:43 AM
^ well Mayor Curry has been trying to get Elon's attention :)
Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: tufsu1 on June 28, 2022, 02:14:06 PM
More from Musk & Miami

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article262691867.html
Title: Re: Boring Company Tunnels: A Transit Solution?
Post by: Steve on June 28, 2022, 03:02:15 PM
I still don't get this - Don't we have underground tunnels where trains can go through? I think I've seen that in some cities.