The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: thelakelander on October 10, 2021, 04:10:09 PM

Title: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: thelakelander on October 10, 2021, 04:10:09 PM
Quote
(https://photos.moderncities.com/photos/i-bmwmKt2/0/L/i-bmwmKt2-L.jpg)

A plan for a Four Seasons Hotel and Residences as a part of a mixed use redevelopment of Metropolitan Park continues to move forward. On October 14th, the Downtown Development Review Board (DDRB) will consider a request for conceptual design approval of the $321 million project.

Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/four-seasons-hotel-plan-headed-to-ddrb-this-week/
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: heights unknown on October 10, 2021, 10:41:10 PM
This looks kind of different than the initial rendering introduced a few months ago. What did they change?
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Des on October 11, 2021, 07:38:29 AM
The previous rendering was an 'L' Shape that was one building. This rendering shows two separate buildings, probably a little bit smaller, but can't say for sure.

Not surprised considering the proposed renderings for Daily's Place and what was built.

Edit: I saw the site plan - doesn't look too much smaller than originally proposed, I think.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Captain Zissou on October 11, 2021, 09:08:54 AM
It's actually slightly bigger than originally proposed.  The ballroom used to be at the intersection of the two wings.  It was expanded and moved out to the side and a restaurant has taken its place.  What is not shown in the front page rendering is the marina building.  It's not scrapped, but I guess it wasn't included in this drawing.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Charles Hunter on October 11, 2021, 09:23:01 AM
How big is the "Conference Center"?
Is this a start of a "Convention Center"?
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: heights unknown on October 11, 2021, 09:25:37 AM
Check out the comparisons and parallels of Nashville's "Four Seasons" and Jacksonville's; Nashville's will be a 40 story tower overlooking a bustling downtown; and Jacksonville's Four Seasons will be............oh well, you be the judge after reading this article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/four-seasons-in-2-cities-jacksonville-and-nashville-on-different-tracks-for-luxury-hotel/ar-AAPlcdB?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Captain Zissou on October 11, 2021, 09:59:53 AM
How big is the "Conference Center"?
Is this a start of a "Convention Center"?

The room is 5,500 sqft with lobby and back of house.
No.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: thelakelander on October 11, 2021, 10:28:55 AM
Check out the comparisons and parallels of Nashville's "Four Seasons" and Jacksonville's; Nashville's will be a 40 story tower overlooking a bustling downtown; and Jacksonville's Four Seasons will be............oh well, you be the judge after reading this article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/four-seasons-in-2-cities-jacksonville-and-nashville-on-different-tracks-for-luxury-hotel/ar-AAPlcdB?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

Not surprising. Unfortunately places like Nashville and Charlotte were Jax's peer cities 20 or 30 years ago. Those places have blown up over the last two decades. For a variety of reasons, many self inflicted, Downtown Jax has not kept pace. So it's not surprising that a five star hotel that's a mile away from the real traditional central business district in a sleepy downtown would require incentives while a larger project in a larger metropolitan area with a significantly more vibrant downtown would not. To be honest, I'm surprised this 4 Seasons thing has gotten this far. I'm still not totally sold that that project is viable long term if Jax can't get itself together quick.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: jaxjaguar on October 11, 2021, 10:55:06 AM
Check out the comparisons and parallels of Nashville's "Four Seasons" and Jacksonville's; Nashville's will be a 40 story tower overlooking a bustling downtown; and Jacksonville's Four Seasons will be............oh well, you be the judge after reading this article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/four-seasons-in-2-cities-jacksonville-and-nashville-on-different-tracks-for-luxury-hotel/ar-AAPlcdB?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

I mean there's no comparison between downtown Nashville and Jacksonville from a visitors perspective. Nashville has NFL, NHL, MLS and NCAA teams + one of the top nightlife destinations in the country + ample daytime activities for family's + walkability + google fiber.

Downtown Jacksonville has virtually nothing to keep people in the core for an entire day. Sure you could tailgate, go to a game and then a bar afterwards, but it's all super disconnected and inconvenient for visitors. As a Jags fan it pains me to say this, but I think the Titans have one of the best stadium locations in the League. It's so easy to just walk across the pedestrian bridge to the stadium before the game and back into downtown afterwards. We've had a blast every time we've gone there for NFL and NHL because there's just so much to do in such close proximity to the Arena and stadium during the day and night.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Zac T on October 11, 2021, 12:06:59 PM
Unrelated to Four Seasons but I noticed on one of the slides that the Cathedral District, LaVilla, and the western portion of Brooklyn all have height restrictions. Why is this? A 75 foot height restriction in LaVilla seems really restrictive being right adjacent to the CBD and having so much available space for future infill. 
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: jaxjaguar on October 11, 2021, 12:36:47 PM
I would assume it's due to all of the houses in that area. Would be weird to have a skyscraper next door to a single story home.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Zac T on October 11, 2021, 12:48:42 PM
Should we be restricting new development within parts of the CBD to conform to the scale of a single story home?
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: vicupstate on October 11, 2021, 01:27:19 PM
Quote
A market analysis done by CBRE determined the 25 "uber-luxury" residences should be able to find buyers. The biggest condominium would be a 19,000-square-foot penthouse whose sales value would equate to $16.5 million, according to a Downtown Investment Authority staff review of the CBRE analysis.

The other residences would have an average size of about 3,600 square feet and a cost of around $3.1 million apiece.

Hard to believe there is a market for this price point in this location.

BTW, there is no way that this hotel and office building cost $400 mm to build. Not even half that.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Charles Hunter on October 11, 2021, 02:13:25 PM
[I swear I posted this earlier ... guess I did not]

From the Nashville comparison article
Quote
The proposed deal says that if the hotel is not a Four Seasons flag, the property tax rebates will end immediately unless the Downtown Investment Authority approves a switch to a different luxury hotel brand.

Does anyone doubt the DIA would vote unanimously to approve such a change?

[sarcasm mode] In business news, Motel 6 announces a new "luxury brand" to be called Motel 7.[end sarcasm mode]
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Ken_FSU on October 11, 2021, 07:03:12 PM
What is not shown in the front page rendering is the marina building.  It's not scrapped, but I guess it wasn't included in this drawing.

The marina building, Riverwalk extension, event lawn, and marina improvements (e.g. the portions of the project on publicly owned property) aren’t part of the formal Iguana project and proposal. They’re also not guaranteed in the legislation. Iguana simply has the option to make these public improvements, at the city’s expense ($18 mil total), if they choose. Under the language in the deal, Iguana would cover all cost overruns. If you look at a project like Coastline, and its associated cost and time overruns, it’s in better hands with the Jags.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Ken_FSU on October 11, 2021, 08:53:12 PM
This looks kind of different than the initial rendering introduced a few months ago. What did they change?

With the structures included in the legislation, they've changed almost nothing.

I think the Jags - like they have with many other steps throughout this newest Shipyards process - have taken the criticism to heart and stripped a lot of the "shinier" and optional elements out of the renders they're presenting to the city and DDRB for approval and trying to play it a little straighter to avoid bait and switch accusations.

New renders are virtually identical to the old renders, minus about five post-production passes.

(https://photos.moderncities.com/photos/i-bmwmKt2/0/L/i-bmwmKt2-L.jpg)

(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/styles/sliders_and_planned_story_image_870x580/public/342336_standard.jpeg)

(https://photos.moderncities.com/photos/i-WZWkjXw/0/L/i-WZWkjXw-L.jpg)

(https://d1vhqlrjc8h82r.cloudfront.net/06-03-2021/t_59e766e9a452499993a2f8c75809de98_name_image.jpg)
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: pierre on October 11, 2021, 09:27:34 PM
Do the buildings intentionally look like cruise ships?
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Ken_FSU on October 11, 2021, 09:49:44 PM
Do the buildings intentionally look like cruise ships?

Yep.

A little on-the-nose, but Khan and Lamping have favored this boat-like design language for the Shipyards going all the way back to their original Shipyards pitch in 2016.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: MusicMan on October 11, 2021, 10:14:00 PM
very expensive luxury hotel in this location......  WTF
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: jaxoNOLE on October 11, 2021, 10:43:02 PM
I've got to assume an entertainment- oriented flavor of Lot J gets resurrected sooner rather than later.  No way Khan envisions the 4 Seasons as a standalone project. And I can't imagine him banking on the Berkman development to be the attraction.

It could be a savvy move, with the city already committed to the 4 seasons, to say hey, we need Lot J 2.0 to make it viable long term. They'll have super majority support for a generous deal as long as they keep it conventional.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: acme54321 on October 11, 2021, 11:28:02 PM
I really don't get how anyone thinks that this is economically viable sitting out there by itself.  Either the council knows more than it seems about the long term plans out there or.... I don't even know.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Ken_FSU on October 12, 2021, 12:17:33 AM
^Long term plan isn't a closely guarded secret.

A new "Heroes Park" at the western Shipyards, potentially housing the USS Orleck, Fire Museum, and a relocated Veterans Wall, funded largely by the $13 million we have set away for Shipyards remediation.

MOSH 2.0 with its own greenspace beside it, funded through the $20 million in city contributions over the next two years, coupled with their own capital campaign.

More greenspace to the east of that, with residential bordering that park as part of the Jags Phase II Shipyards plan. Likely to be funded by the $100 million slush fund for parks in the CIP.

A Baptist Orthopedic center beside that, followed by the six-story office tower for the Jags & their affiliates, the future marina building, and the Four Seasons. Council will pass the Phase I spend tomorrow night, possibly unanimously.

And an upgraded and restored Met Park to the east of that, funded by guarantees in the Four Seasons deal.

To the north, the Jags and City are going to be breaking ground on a $120 million practice facility with public amenities, funded in this year's CIP, and the two sides are working closely on a plan to activate the Daily's Place flex field hundreds of days a year.

Not a bad stretch of development, and more importantly, money's set aside for most of it.

You'd hope that it would be enough to drive some additional private development as well.

Beyond that, Lot J is absolutely going to be coming back in some form. Sooner than most people think.

RISE's development is under construction.

There's no universe where we don't build/upgrade our way to a modern new NFL stadium.

And - perhaps largest of all - there's just too much smoke to not think that Shad Khan's end game doesn't involve a casino at the current Fairgrounds site.

In a city growing as rapidly as Jacksonville, with a hole in the downtown luxury hotel market, and a demonstrable track record of losing room nights to Amelia Island every time there's a big event in town because downtown hotels can't compete with the Ritz, I'm not terribly worried about a small-ish Four Seasons - priced closer to $400 a night than $600 - being able to maintain the roughly ~50% occupancy it will need to hit in the coming years to operate in the black after accounting for the REV and completion grants.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Captain Zissou on October 12, 2021, 09:58:26 AM
A Baptist Orthopedic center beside that, followed by the six-story office tower for the Jags & their affiliates, the future marina building, and the Four Seasons. Council will pass the Phase I spend tomorrow night, possibly unanimously.

The Jaguars have publicly stated that Phase II of the shipyards development will have a 45,000 sqft medical facility, 15,000 sqft of retail uses, structured parking, and possibly residential.  Phase I of the shipyards has 4 different dining options built in, so that should generate some traffic around the area.  The current Lot X or the area to the east needs to be more than just green space to bridge the Shipyards activity to APR.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: thelakelander on October 12, 2021, 12:04:12 PM
^They are clustering these retail/dining oriented uses within the project along the riverfront. With MOSH moving next door, which will also have a dining component, this will quickly become a new node within the Sports and Entertainment District. Depending on how the riverfront is designed, there is an opportunity to tie the places along A. Philip Randolph into the scene, thus potentially creating a walkable corridor from the heart of the Eastside (APR and 1st Street) to the riverfront.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Ken_FSU on October 12, 2021, 09:56:53 PM
Unanimous.

17-0.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: blizz01 on October 12, 2021, 10:36:28 PM
Includes a spa, correct?  Assuming so, would that be the only downtown offering?
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: heights unknown on October 13, 2021, 12:04:49 AM
Check out the comparisons and parallels of Nashville's "Four Seasons" and Jacksonville's; Nashville's will be a 40 story tower overlooking a bustling downtown; and Jacksonville's Four Seasons will be............oh well, you be the judge after reading this article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/four-seasons-in-2-cities-jacksonville-and-nashville-on-different-tracks-for-luxury-hotel/ar-AAPlcdB?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

I mean there's no comparison between downtown Nashville and Jacksonville from a visitors perspective. Nashville has NFL, NHL, MLS and NCAA teams + one of the top nightlife destinations in the country + ample daytime activities for family's + walkability + google fiber.

Downtown Jacksonville has virtually nothing to keep people in the core for an entire day. Sure you could tailgate, go to a game and then a bar afterwards, but it's all super disconnected and inconvenient for visitors. As a Jags fan it pains me to say this, but I think the Titans have one of the best stadium locations in the League. It's so easy to just walk across the pedestrian bridge to the stadium before the game and back into downtown afterwards. We've had a blast every time we've gone there for NFL and NHL because there's just so much to do in such close proximity to the Arena and stadium during the day and night.
Wow. I'm insanely and angrily (at our Leaders) jealous.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Captain Zissou on October 13, 2021, 10:19:38 AM
Includes a spa, correct?  Assuming so, would that be the only downtown offering?
Yes.  There is a large 1st floor spa in the plans.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: tufsu1 on October 13, 2021, 04:30:20 PM
I think the Jags - like they have with many other steps throughout this newest Shipyards process - have taken the criticism to heart and stripped a lot of the "shinier" and optional elements out of the renders they're presenting to the city and DDRB for approval and trying to play it a little straighter to avoid bait and switch accusations.

they have avoided DDRB in the past - specifically with the flex field and amphitheater - that's how the designs were allowed to radically change
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: MusicMan on October 14, 2021, 08:47:17 AM
At what point do they introduce the idea of moving the jail into this equation?

What would that cost? What friend of Lenny would get a sweetheart deal on that build out?
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: tufsu1 on October 14, 2021, 09:34:24 AM
At what point do they introduce the idea of moving the jail into this equation?

What would that cost? What friend of Lenny would get a sweetheart deal on that build out?

The number thrown around is $400 million - and its not included in the 5-year CIP
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Ken_FSU on October 14, 2021, 10:15:32 AM
^Yep, $400 million.

Which seems extremely optimistic.

~$250 million for a 3,000 bed jail.

~$100 million for a new Police Memorial building.

~$40 million for a 500-bed short-term holding facility.

~$2.5 million for Homeland Security and Vice facilities.

And around $7 million to purchase the land they're targeting in New Town (the Load King Warehouse block).

Preaching to the choir, but what's so silly about this plan is that, by the time you account for demolition and rising construction costs, we're easily looking at half a billion dollars as a best case scenario just to get the current jail site shovel ready because the DIA has unilaterally decided it's the new best site for a convention center.

Meanwhile, we've got a prime riverfront site (Ford on Bay) that we've already spent close to $100 million dollars getting shovel ready for a convention center between demolition and Coastline restoration and the Hyatt eagerly on board to partner with a developer on a CC at the site. We could have shovels in the ground next year on a market-appropriate convention center at the Ford on Bay site if we wanted to, but instead, we're adding a billion dollars to the price tag and 5-10 years to the timeline because a couple of people decided in the shadows that the jail site makes the most sense for a CC.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: thelakelander on October 14, 2021, 10:20:05 AM
^Yep, $400 million.

Which seems extremely optimistic.

~$250 million for a 3,000 bed jail.

~$100 million for a new Police Memorial building.

~$40 million for a 500-bed short-term holding facility.

~$2.5 million for Homeland Security and Vice facilities.

And around $7 million to purchase the land they're targeting in New Town (the Load King Warehouse block).


So the jail isn't good enough to stay in its current location but it's good enough to move into a historically Black community in 32209, right on the other side of I-95? Talk about color of law and environmental justice!!!! This is a move straight out of 1950! We should know better by now.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Captain Zissou on October 14, 2021, 10:21:40 AM
^ Additionally, with all of the improvements coming to the railyard district and the money poured into the emerald trail, do we even want to use the Loadking site for a jail?  In the 10-15 years that it takes to get the new facility funded and built that area could look completely different and may not be suitable to put Jacksonville's finest right in the middle.  I don't hate the idea of putting the CC on the current jail site, but I think we need to rethink where we will put the future facility.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: thelakelander on October 14, 2021, 10:41:33 AM
I think we need to rethink the need to move the jail. Last time I checked, the Broward County jail on the New River isn't killing vibrancy and growth in Downtown Fort Lauderdale. The jail is the last of downtown's issues. If we got $400 million to spend in downtown, the jail doesn't even crack the top 100 list in needs.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: jcjohnpaint on October 14, 2021, 01:06:08 PM
I feel that there are behind-the-scenes talks going on assuming the jail will move. I am basing this on some of Lori Boyer's past comments.
This is troubling because it is influencing all of the decisions about the Ford on Bay site. I feel the most logical area would be this parcel. If you removed the jail complex, you would still have about the same size area, but have the Hyatt included, so the hotel would already exist.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: jaxjaguar on October 14, 2021, 01:35:21 PM
Because the jail will almost certainly move under the cover of night, is there any precedence for turning a former jail of that size into housing/hotel/office? I would imagine the windows could be made larger and interior walls could be demolished. Would certainly be more environmentally friendly than demolishing it.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Captain Zissou on October 14, 2021, 02:02:07 PM
I feel that there are behind-the-scenes talks going on assuming the jail will move. I am basing this on some of Lori Boyer's past comments.

I heard her say they don't want to give up the waterfront property for the convention center, which is why across Bay St at the jail is preferable.  If there was development planned or a competent RFP process for the FoB, I would agree.  COJ and DIA are the kings of putting the cart before the horse.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: tufsu1 on October 14, 2021, 03:15:21 PM
Because the jail will almost certainly move under the cover of night

Order the Mayflower moving trucks
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: MusicMan on October 15, 2021, 10:17:57 AM
Move the jail facilities into City Hall, birds of a feather .....
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: heights unknown on October 16, 2021, 05:34:31 PM
Because the jail will almost certainly move under the cover of night, is there any precedence for turning a former jail of that size into housing/hotel/office? I would imagine the windows could be made larger and interior walls could be demolished. Would certainly be more environmentally friendly than demolishing it.
Yeah, but that JAIL SMELL is very hard to get out and/or shake. Good luck. It's in the walls forever.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Ken_FSU on October 21, 2021, 01:25:30 PM
Beyond that, Lot J is absolutely going to be coming back in some form. Sooner than most people think.

Lamping planting those seeds:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-president-on-development-were-in-a-very-good-place

The ask will come next year.

Doesn't make sense to open a Four Seasons with no entertainment component nearby, nor is it good for the hotel to be overlooking a construction zone for years.

I think the Jags have learned a lot from the failure the first time around.

Hopefully Cordish has too.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: acme54321 on October 21, 2021, 03:11:27 PM
Beyond that, Lot J is absolutely going to be coming back in some form. Sooner than most people think.

Lamping planting those seeds:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-president-on-development-were-in-a-very-good-place

The ask will come next year.

Doesn't make sense to open a Four Seasons with no entertainment component nearby, nor is it good for the hotel to be overlooking a construction zone for years.

I think the Jags have learned a lot from the failure the first time around.

Hopefully Cordish has too.

Piecemeal it so no one sees their massive taxpayer ask in one spot?
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: landfall on October 21, 2021, 03:34:14 PM
Beyond that, Lot J is absolutely going to be coming back in some form. Sooner than most people think.

Lamping planting those seeds:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-president-on-development-were-in-a-very-good-place

The ask will come next year.

Doesn't make sense to open a Four Seasons with no entertainment component nearby, nor is it good for the hotel to be overlooking a construction zone for years.

I think the Jags have learned a lot from the failure the first time around.

Hopefully Cordish has too.
Packaged up with a stadium renovation too I wonder? They're definitely going to ask for a roof over the stands at the very least like in Miami.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: Ken_FSU on October 21, 2021, 03:39:33 PM
Beyond that, Lot J is absolutely going to be coming back in some form. Sooner than most people think.

Lamping planting those seeds:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-president-on-development-were-in-a-very-good-place

The ask will come next year.

Doesn't make sense to open a Four Seasons with no entertainment component nearby, nor is it good for the hotel to be overlooking a construction zone for years.

I think the Jags have learned a lot from the failure the first time around.

Hopefully Cordish has too.

Piecemeal it so no one sees their massive taxpayer ask in one spot?

Ding ding ding.

The clock's ticking too.

Tentative timeline for stadium renovation negotiations start is late 2023/early 2024.

They're going to need to squeeze in the Lot J ask well before that much larger ask.

Quote
Packaged up with a stadium renovation too I wonder? They're definitely going to ask for a roof over the stands at the very least like in Miami.

Separate.

Buth both are coming.
Title: Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
Post by: jaxlongtimer on October 21, 2021, 05:35:53 PM
Piecemeal it so no one sees their massive taxpayer ask in one spot?

They may try the opposite and bury it in a master stadium upgrade proposal.  If it approaches or tops $1 billion, burying a hundred million in there for Lot J will not be so obvious.  And, they will say it all ties together and is inseparable if success is to be assured and the investment justified.

Keep in mind that any improvements to the stadium district will also benefit further the $300 million Khan plans to "invest" on the riverfront.

The way this likely plays out, he won't need much to assure him of a great return on his investment and at little risk thanks to us taxpayers.  Imagine investing in a cross section of the stock market with a 25+% governmental subsidy.  Stocks would have to drop 25+% before I felt any pain.  On the hand, stocks will, over time, likely rise based on historical performance.  And my return would be based on only the 75% of the dollars I invested as the City gets none of it on their 25%.  I would take that bet every time too.