The Jaxson

Living in Jacksonville => Style and Health => Topic started by: jaxlongtimer on July 07, 2021, 06:57:53 PM

Title: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 07, 2021, 06:57:53 PM
Our family has spoken to several Jax area doctors and hospital officials in the past 2 weeks and they report our hospitals are seeing big spikes again in COVID cases and admissions, getting to closer to full capacity.  All are cautioning to continue to beware and be careful.  Obviously, getting vaccinated is also highly recommended.

This appears to be due to both the increased transmission of the Delta variant, lower area vaccination rates and the community lowering its guard with respect to masking and other COVID protocols.

The nationwide county map from the CDC for the week ending July 5th (link below) validates this by showing Duval and surrounding counties at or near the top for admissions, cases and transmissions and with lower vaccination rates.  The whole state of Florida doesn't look too hot either compared to most of the rest of the country.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view

The added danger is the more COVID spreads the greater the likelihood that more variants are created, not to mention the impact on hospital care for other health issues, a reduced labor force, added costs to the community, increased loss of life, reinstating business restrictions and closures and a possible mandate to return to fully masked and socially distance protocols.

It doesn't help that DeSantis refuses to release State COVID data completely and timely like the rest of the country which tends to downplay or hide the issue at hand.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Ken_FSU on July 07, 2021, 08:02:40 PM
Yep!

In the last week, positive test rate in Duval County has been over 11% - more than double the other largest counties in the state.

Baker County is at over 15%.

Cool that bodies are piling up in places like India due to vaccine shortages, but people in Northeast Florida can't be bothered to walk across the street to Publix and get poked because Facebook told them the vaccine would turn them into a three-eyed Obama lover.

You obviously can't force someone to get vaccinated against their will, but I'm all for enacting every restriction you can for the willfully unvaccinated while transmission rates are this high. Would also be perfectly fine incentivizing vaccinations with cash handouts as well.

Alternative is that this thing sticks around forever, mutating in perpetuity, finding workarounds to our vaccines, and discovering a way to hospitalize our children as well.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Charles Hunter on July 07, 2021, 10:03:26 PM
Yep!

In the last week, positive test rate in Duval County has been over 11% - more than double the other largest counties in the state.

Baker County is at over 15%.

Cool that bodies are piling up in places like India due to vaccine shortages, but people in Northeast Florida can't be bothered to walk across the street to Publix and get poked because Facebook told them the vaccine would turn them into a three-eyed Obama lover.

You obviously can't force someone to get vaccinated against their will, but I'm all for enacting every restriction you can for the willfully unvaccinated while transmission rates are this high. Would also be perfectly fine incentivizing vaccinations with cash handouts as well.

Alternative is that this thing sticks around forever, mutating in perpetuity, finding workarounds to our vaccines, and discovering a way to hospitalize our children as well.


Since the MAGAites are in love with requiring an ID to vote, make it so you can't vote without a current vaccination card. Of course, there would have to be significant penalties for forging vac-cards.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on July 08, 2021, 08:07:07 AM
It's SARS-CoV-2 or covid19, not "covid". 

That one can't even get that basic detail right makes it no suprise about the chicken littism at work in this this.

Hospitals are almost always getting closer to being full when they're adding.  What a meaningless thing to say.    Absolutely tells us nothing.

What does hospital capacity look like, median and avg, by month for the previous decade?

ICU beds?

What is the current occupancy of hospital beds?  How many with covid19?  How many _because of_ covid19?

RIght now ~5% of the florida hospital beds are occupied a patient w/ covid19.

If we're not talking numbers, we're just wasting time.

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/number-of-covid-19-hospitalizations-state-by-state-july-15.html

Florida

Current: 3,307

Cumulative: 82,237

State's hospital bed capacity: 54,744

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 08, 2021, 08:29:37 AM
It's SARS-CoV-2 or covid19, not "covid". 

That one can't even get that basic detail right makes it no suprise about the chicken littism at work in this this.

Hospitals are almost always getting closer to being full when they're adding.  What a meaningless thing to say.    Absolutely tells us nothing.

What does hospital capacity look like, median and avg, by month for the previous decade?

ICU beds?

What is the current occupancy of hospital beds?  How many with covid19?  How many _because of_ covid19?

RIght now ~5% of the florida hospital beds are occupied a patient w/ covid19.

If we're not talking numbers, we're just wasting time.

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/number-of-covid-19-hospitalizations-state-by-state-july-15.html

Florida

Current: 3,307

Cumulative: 82,237

State's hospital bed capacity: 54,744

While not scientifically specific, everyone knows what you mean when you say just COVID, particularly in informal conversation. That one can't even get that basic understanding of language right makes it unsurprising about the pointless pedantry at work in this.

Also, if you want to be patronizing and correct someone's word use, spell "chicken littleism" correctly. ;)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 08, 2021, 08:30:59 AM
The unvaccinated jeopardize all of us... even increased chances for new variations... Pretty sure though that vaccination resistance covers all parties, races, religions or whatever category you insist on putting people in...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 08, 2021, 08:33:35 AM
The unvaccinated jeopardize all of us... even increased chances for new variations... Pretty sure though that vaccination resistance covers all parties, races, religions or whatever category you insist on putting people in...

Very true. Our best bet is to get more people vaccinated.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: landfall on July 08, 2021, 08:38:39 AM
It's SARS-CoV-2 or covid19, not "covid". 

That one can't even get that basic detail right makes it no suprise about the chicken littism at work in this this.

Hospitals are almost always getting closer to being full when they're adding.  What a meaningless thing to say.    Absolutely tells us nothing.

What does hospital capacity look like, median and avg, by month for the previous decade?

ICU beds?

What is the current occupancy of hospital beds?  How many with covid19?  How many _because of_ covid19?

RIght now ~5% of the florida hospital beds are occupied a patient w/ covid19.

If we're not talking numbers, we're just wasting time.

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/number-of-covid-19-hospitalizations-state-by-state-july-15.html

Florida

Current: 3,307

Cumulative: 82,237

State's hospital bed capacity: 54,744
Isn't it amazing how so many countries played down their numbers of cases, bordering on lying and cooking the books and now suddenly they urgently need vaccination supplies?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Ken_FSU on July 08, 2021, 09:14:11 AM
The unvaccinated jeopardize all of us... even increased chances for new variations... Pretty sure though that vaccination resistance covers all parties, races, religions or whatever category you insist on putting people in...

Fair point, I shouldn’t generalize. Though most of the data I’ve seen suggests that education level, income, and political affiliation are statistically significant predictors of covid-19 vaccination, I know plenty of people on both sides who are still unvaccinated. A lot of them are in at-risk categories as well. You’d think with a billion safely vaccinated, well documented evidence of covid’s long term damage, and stats coming out of places like Los Angeles county showing that 99.4% of all covid deaths in 2021 have been from the unvaccinated, people would do some back of the napkin risk/reward calculations and logically conclude that the greater risk comes from not being vaccinated.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: AdamsOnAdams on July 08, 2021, 09:23:44 AM
I'm still stunned that Florida's major public universities have not required all students and faculty to be vaccinated. A major fail that I assume was brought about because of university administrators' fear of DeSantis and the Florida "Lege."
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on July 08, 2021, 09:29:53 AM
Twenty four states have seen an uptick of at least 10% in Covid-19 cases over the past week as health experts and the federal government keep pressing for more people to get vaccinated,” CNN reports.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 08, 2021, 10:20:33 AM
I'm still stunned that Florida's major public universities have not required all students and faculty to be vaccinated. A major fail that I assume was brought about because of university administrators' fear of DeSantis and the Florida "Lege."

Florida law and an executive order from the governor prohibit state universities, government agencies and businesses from requiring proof of vaccination.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on July 08, 2021, 05:02:18 PM
Duval County is on both maps for high incidence of Covid

https://twitter.com/josh_wingrove/status/1413156224405757960/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/josh_wingrove/status/1413156224405757960/photo/1)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Peter Griffin on July 09, 2021, 08:24:54 AM
It's like you couldn't get enough fearmongering on the mainstream news, so you decided to start posting your own on the forum.

This thread sucks
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on July 09, 2021, 12:13:54 PM
Here's some fear mongering for you:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/florida-republican-james-ring-covid_n_60e77808e4b0b9a790b70f84


What a dumb ass. "President of the Lakeland GOP."  I believe it.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Downtown Osprey on July 09, 2021, 12:18:07 PM
Here's some fear mongering for you:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/florida-republican-james-ring-covid_n_60e77808e4b0b9a790b70f84


What a dumb ass. "President of the Lakeland GOP."  I believe it.

No need for name calling
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on July 09, 2021, 01:26:02 PM
It's not name calling. It's an accurate description.  The vaccine is free, Sites were set up all over THE COUNTRY, including Florida, for administering it. It took 15 minutes. He's a dumb ass.

Its killed 600,000 people.  He's a dumb ass.

Here's another one for ya:  Trump.  Said emphatically, over and over and over again, in public with cameras rolling: "Nobody knows the tax code better than me. Nobody."
Lying dumb ass.
 
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 09, 2021, 01:31:18 PM
Enough.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on July 09, 2021, 02:13:52 PM

Also, if you want to be patronizing and correct someone's word use, spell "chicken littleism" correctly. ;)

Well played.    Cheers
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on July 09, 2021, 02:19:17 PM
I'm still stunned that Florida's major public universities have not required all students and faculty to be vaccinated. A major fail that I assume was brought about because of university administrators' fear of DeSantis and the Florida "Lege."

Florida law and an executive order from the governor prohibit state universities, government agencies and businesses from requiring proof of vaccination.


Even without such a thing at a state level such a requirement is legally questionable. 

We have safe, viral treatments that could if implemented in mass, wipe this virus out.   Following the current vaccination path could be ( or is? )  quickly allowing this thing to become endemic amongst humans.

One of the concerns should be is that we're talking about vaccines the way folks in the 1960s talked about antibiotics.

We have more than just a hammer and a square peg. Our public leaders need to start acting accordingly.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: marcuscnelson on July 09, 2021, 02:37:16 PM
If we can't convince people to take 15 minutes to get a free vaccine, what are the odds of convincing them to take whatever other viral treatment there is?

I'm a bit confused about your second portion. Are you trying to say that we're over-prescribing vaccines? Or that there's a large portion of the population that isn't completing the course of the vaccine?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 09, 2021, 03:44:03 PM
It's like you couldn't get enough fearmongering on the mainstream news, so you decided to start posting your own on the forum.

This thread sucks
Are you serious?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: WAJAS on July 09, 2021, 07:13:22 PM
Even without such a thing at a state level such a requirement is legally questionable. 

We have safe, viral treatments that could if implemented in mass, wipe this virus out.   Following the current vaccination path could be ( or is? )  quickly allowing this thing to become endemic amongst humans.

One of the concerns should be is that we're talking about vaccines the way folks in the 1960s talked about antibiotics.

We have more than just a hammer and a square peg. Our public leaders need to start acting accordingly.
How is the requirement legally questionable? Other vaccinations are already required for college, primary/secondary schools, and some businesses, including cruising.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 09, 2021, 08:07:16 PM
It's like you couldn't get enough fearmongering on the mainstream news, so you decided to start posting your own on the forum.

This thread sucks

It's not fear mongering, it's sharing a factual situation.  This desire to spin a fact is what is wrong with dialogue today.  COVID is not a political issue, it's reality.  To deny it is foolish.

How and where would you suggest this topic be discussed?  Based on my conversations with lots of people, many think the COVID epidemic is behind us, have never heard of the Delta variant and are no longer monitoring COVID's presence in the community.  Based on that, I don't think we can publicize the facts too many times or in too many places. 

If you find the facts inconvenient or don't want to confront them, just ignore the discussion.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on July 09, 2021, 08:23:34 PM
Try working in any one of our local hospitals without a lengthy and comprehensive list of vaccinations.  My wife is doing some part time in-patient work at Mayo and they wanted her complete vax records.  DeSantis is an effing disaster.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 10, 2021, 07:03:04 AM
Try working in any one of our local hospitals without a lengthy and comprehensive list of vaccinations.  My wife is doing some part time in-patient work at Mayo and they wanted her complete vax records.  DeSantis is an effing disaster.

Pretty normal stuff if you want to work in a hospital...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 11, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
Local infectious disease doctor affirms spike in local hospital admissions mainly due to the highly contagious Delta variant.  Article notes that less than half of Jax is vaccinated, which is 10% less than the average for Florida and far less than much of the rest of the U.S.  Jax is setup for a major wave if vaccinations don't quickly increase here.

No fear mongering, just the facts.

Quote
Dr. Mohammed Reza, a Jacksonville infectious disease specialist, said he is seeing an increase in hospital admissions because of COVID-19 infections.

“A pretty dramatic increase,” Reza told News4Jax on Sunday. “It’s just been so daunting the amount of the work we are having to do. Last night, I worked a 14-hour shift, and we saw close to 17 admissions into the hospital.”

Reza said the uptick is driven mostly by the delta variant.

“It’s almost like that alpha variant, like the variant in the U.K. (United Kingdom) on steroids. This variant is 40 to 60 times more transmissible, and it divides more rapidly when people do have this virus. This was the variant initially found in India,” Reza explained.

Reza said a local lab is conducting tests on COVID-19 cases.

“They sequenced about 17 people who have this virus in the Jacksonville area, and 15 of those came back positive for the delta variant -- the more contagious variant,” Reza said.

When asked whether he’s fearful there will be another wave of COVID-19 infections, Reza said: “This is kind of where we see the disconnect of what we are seeing in the hospitals and the rest of the community, and everybody catching up to it to some extent.”

He added: “Hence why my colleagues are exhausted, sick literally from this virus. We are seeing a good number of first line people getting infected with this variant too, and it’s people who are fully vaccinated. That’s the concerning part.”

Reza said a large number of area hospital admissions are people who have not been vaccinated.


In Florida, according to the state Department of Health, 58% of the population age 12 and older has had at least one COVID-19 shot. In Duval County, the Florida Department of Health said, 48% of the population age 12 and older has had at least one COVID-19 shot.

“My recommendation at this point is to use judgement, get vaccinated first and foremost,” Reza said. “In Duval County, we are a very low rate of overall vaccination.”

Reza encourages people to get vaccinated and to continue to wear masks when among crowds in confined areas.
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/07/11/jacksonville-infectious-disease-doctor-seeing-increase-in-hospital-admissions-due-to-covid-19/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on July 12, 2021, 04:14:33 PM

It's not fear mongering, it's sharing a factual situation. 


Well, if this is about facts then :

a) How many hospital beds in Florida?
b) How many hospital beds in Florida currently have a patient with covid19?
c) How many hospital beds in Florida currently have a patient that is there because of covid19?
d) A breakdown of A + B  + C  by covid19 variant, age, and comorbidity

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 12, 2021, 04:27:07 PM

It's not fear mongering, it's sharing a factual situation. 


Well, if this is about facts then :

a) How many hospital beds in Florida?
b) How many hospital beds in Florida currently have a patient with covid19?
c) How many hospital beds in Florida currently have a patient that is there because of covid19?
d) A breakdown of A + B  + C  by covid19 variant, age, and comorbidity

Obviously, there is a correlation between cases and hospital admissions and deaths.  That said, we live in a state where our governor has limited available COVID info.  For now, I offer articles like the below to add to direct testimony posted previously from those who work in or with local hospitals.  Continue to deny if you wish.
Quote
New coronavirus cases leaped in Florida in the week ending Sunday, rising 51.4% as 23,747 cases were reported. The previous week had 15,684 new cases of the virus that causes COVID-19.

Florida ranked third among the states where coronavirus was spreading the fastest on a per-person basis, a USA TODAY Network analysis of Johns Hopkins University data shows. In the latest week coronavirus cases in the United States increased 47.5% from the week before, with 136,187 cases reported. With 6.45% of the country's population, Florida had 17.44% of the country's cases in the last week. Across the country, 43 states had more cases in the latest week than they did in the week before....

....Within Florida, the worst weekly outbreaks on a per-person basis were in Baker, Nassau and Bradford counties. Adding the most new cases overall were Miami-Dade County, with 4,371 cases; Duval County, with 2,139 cases; and Broward County, with 2,136. Weekly case counts rose in 64 counties from the previous week. The worst increases from the prior week's pace were in Miami-Dade, Duval and Orange counties.

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2021/07/12/leon-county-florida-covid-19-cases-surge-62-percent-july-12-2021/117481554/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on July 12, 2021, 04:28:53 PM
If we can't convince people to take 15 minutes to get a free vaccine, what are the odds of convincing them to take whatever other viral treatment there is?

Americans spent 1/2 a TRILLION on prescription drugs last year.   They have no issues with taking drugs.

I'm a bit confused about your second portion. Are you trying to say that we're over-prescribing vaccines? Or that there's a large portion of the population that isn't completing the course of the vaccine?

For generations we have treated viruses with anti viral drugs.     We should stop acting as though vaccinations is the only way to end this virus.

In fact, if we've indeed hit a vaccination ceiling,  they're the only option we have to try to snuff out the virus.

Also keep in mind there are a couple new, different vaccines close to coming onto the market.  IIRC this includes a pill form.

Lastly, remember, that 10-15% of Floridians have had and recovered from covid19.  Because of it, their immunity to is as good if not better than any of the vaccines.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on July 12, 2021, 04:31:24 PM

Obviously, there is a correlation between cases and hospital admissions and deaths.

Spare us the "obviously".  That's not factual. 

Looks at the UK right now.  Their covid19 cases have been going up while hospitalizations and deaths have barely bugged.



That said, the reason you won't produce those numbers is you don't have those numbers.  And without those numbers you are doing nothing more than speculating.  That's your prerogative.   But your opinion ain't being factual.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Peter Griffin on July 12, 2021, 04:37:12 PM
That said, the reason you won't produce those numbers is you don't have those numbers.  And without those numbers you are doing nothing more than speculating.  That's your prerogative.   But your opinion ain't being factual.

Thanks for saying it better than I could.

There's no facts or hard numbers in this thread.
"COVID cases jumped 100% in X location" sounds scary, but it doesn't mean much if the case count went from 1 to 2 now, does it? REAL HARD numbers matter, a "spike" or a "percentage increase" lacks any context to denote the real severity of a situation.

This thread is fearmongering for no reason. Get your vaxx to protect yourself, outside of a self-imposed lockdown, there's not much you can do, because you can't change other people's minds
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 12, 2021, 04:44:20 PM
That said, the reason you won't produce those numbers is you don't have those numbers.  And without those numbers you are doing nothing more than speculating.  That's your prerogative.   But your opinion ain't being factual.

Thanks for saying it better than I could.

There's no facts or hard numbers in this thread.
"COVID cases jumped 100% in X location" sounds scary, but it doesn't mean much if the case count went from 1 to 2 now, does it? REAL HARD numbers matter, a "spike" or a "percentage increase" lacks any context to denote the real severity of a situation.

This thread is fearmongering for no reason. Get your vaxx to protect yourself, outside of a self-imposed lockdown, there's not much you can do, because you can't change other people's minds

No problem if you want to believe where there is smoke there is no fire.  And, if you want statistics to be more transparent, please call the governor and ask him to publicly release them on a timely basis.  You are playing into his hands when you asked for them knowing they are not widely available for the sole purpose of supporting doubters like yourselves.

Just to tweak you a bit more, here is another article pointing out that NE Florida is a "leader" in COVID's resurgence:

Quote
Why are more people testing positive in the Jacksonville area?
Northeast Florida may be done with COVID-19, but the novel coronavirus isn’t done with the Jacksonville region.

Rates of positive tests throughout the region are among the highest in the state.

The most recent weekly tallies from Florida’s Department of Health, released last week, show the region well ahead of the rest of the state in case counts and incidence going into the Fourth of July Weekend.

From June 25 to July 1, Duval County reported 1,420 cases, with an 11.1% positive test rate.

That is the highest proportion of positive tests of any major metro in the state.
For context, Miami-Dade and Broward are each below 4%, Palm Beach just over 4%, and Orange County at 5.3%. Hillsborough, which includes Tampa, was at 5.7%.


Duval, where 47% of residents have been vaccinated, and an additional 16.5% have had the virus, is not alone among Northeast Florida counties facing rates of positive tests far higher than the 5.2% state average.

Baker County, which includes MacClenny, had more cases (57) than vaccinations (50) during the reporting period. The county also saw a 16.4% positive testing rate, among the highest in the state, over the same week.

Just 28% of Baker County residents have had a shot, while 22.4% have had the disease itself.

The other counties in the region saw variations on the same theme, with low vaccination rates coinciding with a viral surge.


To the west of Baker, Bradford County saw a 13.4% positive test rate over the same week. Only 42% of its residents have been vaccinated.


In Clay County, 41% of residents have had a shot. Its positive test rate was 10.2%.

Nassau County saw a 13.2% positive test rate. Compared to many counties in the region, its 49% vaccination rate is robust....


https://floridapolitics.com/archives/438958-covid-19-bounces-back-in-northeast-florida/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 13, 2021, 11:58:39 AM
This article adds some hospital "facts" to the thread:

Quote
As more and more cases of the Delta variant of COVID-19 crop up nationwide, health experts in Jacksonville say they’re seeing a growing number of infections linked to the variant.

The concern for an infectious disease expert at UF Health Jacksonville is that the Delta variant, which has become the dominant strain of COVID-19 in the U.S., is making patients sicker than before and shows no signs of tapering off anytime soon.

“It’s the perfect storm that we’re seeing and, unfortunately, it does not look like it’s going away,” said Chad Neilsen, director of infection prevention for UF Health Jacksonville, which has seen its number of COVID-19 patients double recently.

As of Monday, UF Health was caring for 60 people who were infected with COVID-19, 23 of whom are in the intensive care unit and half of whom are on ventilators. The hospital suspects that 15 other patients are infected, but tests are pending.

That’s compared to 133 patients infected with COVID-19 at Baptist Health’s facilities in the area, 35 of whom are in the ICU.

“We have no doubt that these patients are coming in with the Delta variant of the virus, which is known to spread faster and in some cases be more severe,” Neilsen said of UF Health Jacksonville’s patients.

New infections have spiked in Florida, which reported 23,697 new cases in its weekly situational report last week. That’s nearly double the number of new infections the state reported the week before. Of the new cases, Jacksonville had 2,127, surpassing 2,000 cases in a week for the first time since February.
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/07/12/delta-variant-creating-perfect-storm-in-jacksonville-expert-warns/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 13, 2021, 04:57:17 PM
More "fearmongering" for the young.  Get that damn shots...

Quote
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. – In an email sent to Baptist Health employees last week, hospital leaders warned of a resurgence in new cases of the coronavirus and said new patients requiring intensive care in recent days are “shockingly young.”

“We recently lost one patient under age 40,” said the email that was obtained by News4Jax.


https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/07/13/internal-email-covid-19-patients-in-baptist-health-icu-shockingly-young/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 13, 2021, 07:32:29 PM
Tennessean's fearful of fear mongering should be happy.  In this age of the internet, their Republican legislators are trying to keep vaccine information from teens by firing their medical director for vaccine-preventable diseases.  This in a state with only a 38% vaccination rate (making Jax look good?) and adjacent to Missouri and Arkansas that have some of the worst outbreaks in the country right now. 

I bet the teens know more about vaccines and probably a lot of other subjects (drugs? sex? rock n' roll?) these (at best) naive legislators have no idea about.  There is nothing like telling a child they can't do something to motivate them to do it.

Quote
The top vaccine official for the state of Tennessee said Monday she was fired after an argument over vaccinating children against coronavirus.

Now Dr. Michelle Fiscus, a pediatrician who has served as the state's medical director of the vaccine-preventable diseases and immunization for two years, said she is afraid for the people of her state -- which is already lagging in vaccination against the virus.

"It is just astounding to me how absolutely political and self-centered our elected people are here and how very little they care for the people of Tennessee," Fiscus told CNN in a telephone interview.

"The people of Tennessee are going to pay a price."....

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/health/tennessee-vaccine-manager-fired/index.html
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 13, 2021, 08:13:23 PM
Unbelievably stupid... It's another confirmation that I made the correct decision...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on July 14, 2021, 09:46:58 AM
This article adds some hospital "facts" to the thread:

Quote
As more and more cases of the Delta variant of COVID-19 crop up nationwide, health experts in Jacksonville say they’re seeing a growing number of infections linked to the variant.

The concern for an infectious disease expert at UF Health Jacksonville is that the Delta variant, which has become the dominant strain of COVID-19 in the U.S., is making patients sicker than before and shows no signs of tapering off anytime soon.

“It’s the perfect storm that we’re seeing and, unfortunately, it does not look like it’s going away,” said Chad Neilsen, director of infection prevention for UF Health Jacksonville, which has seen its number of COVID-19 patients double recently.

As of Monday, UF Health was caring for 60 people who were infected with COVID-19, 23 of whom are in the intensive care unit and half of whom are on ventilators. The hospital suspects that 15 other patients are infected, but tests are pending.

That’s compared to 133 patients infected with COVID-19 at Baptist Health’s facilities in the area, 35 of whom are in the ICU.

“We have no doubt that these patients are coming in with the Delta variant of the virus, which is known to spread faster and in some cases be more severe,” Neilsen said of UF Health Jacksonville’s patients.

New infections have spiked in Florida, which reported 23,697 new cases in its weekly situational report last week. That’s nearly double the number of new infections the state reported the week before. Of the new cases, Jacksonville had 2,127, surpassing 2,000 cases in a week for the first time since February.
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/07/12/delta-variant-creating-perfect-storm-in-jacksonville-expert-warns/


Facts with no perspective nor pertinent information:

a) How many dedicated ICU beds are there?
b) How many normally have a patient on a ventilator ( hint it's pretty common w/out covid19; that's why dedicated ICU beds have the equipement )
c) How many of them have the Brazil Variant?  The India Variant?
d) What is the age break down for all patients w/ covid 19?


Someone under 40, while isn't common, is par for course w/ this virus and other viruses.   
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on July 14, 2021, 10:06:26 AM

And one they never like to share ---> how many patients w/ covid19 did not have covid19 when they came to the hospital.


This is a serious disease.   Get serious about how y'll look at it.  The chicken little crap is getting people killed.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 14, 2021, 10:43:46 AM

And one they never like to share ---> how many patients w/ covid19 did not have covid19 when they came to the hospital.


This is a serious disease.   Get serious about how y'll look at it.  The chicken little crap is getting people killed.

Are YOU vaccinated?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 14, 2021, 11:10:21 PM
Facts with no perspective nor pertinent information:

a) How many dedicated ICU beds are there?
b) How many normally have a patient on a ventilator ( hint it's pretty common w/out covid19; that's why dedicated ICU beds have the equipement )
c) How many of them have the Brazil Variant?  The India Variant?
d) What is the age break down for all patients w/ covid 19?


Someone under 40, while isn't common, is par for course w/ this virus and other viruses.

You know darn well most of those types of statistics are not readily available to the public, especially at the county level.  If you think they are, please gather the info and share it with us, citing your sources.  Note the comment about such info in the last sentence in the article below.

I think the public messages from our medical community, led by the hospitals, is validation enough that we have a serious problem here that is getting worse by the day.  All my hospital "friends" in the know say 99% of COVID cases they see are from the unvaccinated.  It really amounts to plain laziness, lack of education or a stubborn and unfounded denial of the facts. 

Regardless, these people are endangering not just themselves but all of us (1) given a select number of  those vaccinated can still become a carrier or suffer lighter symptoms, (2) that the unvaccinated provide a field upon which the virus can more likely mutate creating even more dangerous strains, some possibly evading current vaccines, (3) that with the unvaccinated clogging our hospitals the rest of us may not be able to get the quality and/or timely care for other serious health issues and (4) that the economic toll on society created by the unvaccinated's medical care and lost productivity is borne by all of us.

Our largest hospital system is reacting currently per the below:

Quote
In just one day, COVID-19 cases at Jacksonville hospitals have seen a notable increase, News4Jax learned Wednesday.

Now, hospitals are pulling back on some surgeries previously scheduled for other patients.

Hospitals said most of the new patients are much sicker than those seen during the peak of the pandemic. The majority, health officials say, have the Delta variant.

Doctors said the recent outbreak of coronavirus cases is getting worse and they want local residents to take precautions because in many cases there are no longer mask or social distancing mandates around Florida.

At Baptist Health the hospital beds are filling up with coronavirus patients.

As of Wednesday morning, 179 people were hospitalized and 33 were in the ICU. That’s a 23% increase over Tuesday when 145 people were hospitalized.

“We are working with our surgeons to manage the number of elective surgical procedures that require overnight admission to the hospital,” Baptist Health wrote in a statement to News4Jax. “It is very important to note that many patients are still able to have their procedures as originally scheduled, while others who have been contacted by their surgeon will be given a new surgery date.”

At UF Health Jacksonville there is a similar problem.

In one day, the hospital saw a 15% increase in COVID-19 patients. It now has 70 patients with 20 in the ICU, and there are another 40 in the hospital suspected of having the coronavirus.


UF Health has not canceled or postponed surgeries yet, but it could happen soon.

“Day by day we’re having meetings with our surgeons to review whether or not we need to pause elective surgeries,” said Chad Neilsen, Director of Infection Prevention and Control at UF Health.

Neilsen said most of those coming into the hospital have the Delta variant and he is worried many of them may not be walking out.

“It’s also going to increase our numbers of COVID mortalities because when those numbers in the hospital rise that is followed normally by a two-week period of mortality,” he said.

News4Jax also checked with other hospitals that have been reluctant to release information about their COVID-19 numbers.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/07/14/baptist-health-puts-some-surgeries-on-hold-as-covid-19-cases-jump-23-in-one-day/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 15, 2021, 11:13:52 AM
No more denialism or anti-vax statements in this thread, please.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 15, 2021, 01:08:04 PM

And one they never like to share ---> how many patients w/ covid19 did not have covid19 when they came to the hospital.


This is a serious disease.   Get serious about how y'll look at it.  The chicken little crap is getting people killed.

Are YOU vaccinated?

Hmmm... not surprising... no answer in two days.  Better wear a mask dude...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 15, 2021, 06:58:08 PM
The below speaks for itself.  The real "fear mongering" is from those creating fear of the vaccines or undermining fear of the seriousness of COVID 19.

Quote
The U.S. Surgeon General Is Calling COVID-19 Misinformation An 'Urgent Threat'

With about a third of adults in the U.S. still completely unvaccinated, and cases of COVID-19 on the rise, the U.S. surgeon general is calling for a war against "health misinformation."

On Thursday, Dr. Vivek Murthy released the first surgeon general's advisory of his time serving in the Biden administration, describing the "urgent threat" posed by the rise of false information around COVID-19 — one that continues to put "lives at risk" and prolong the pandemic.

Murthy says Americans must do their part to fight misinformation....

.....In many cases, false information about the vaccines feeds that hesitancy. According to polling from the Kaiser Family Foundation, two-thirds of unvaccinated adults either believe vaccine myths or are unsure about whether they are true. Murthy says that means misinformation is literally putting lives at risk.

"Every life that is lost to COVID-19 when we have vaccines available, is a preventable tragedy," Murthy says....
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/07/15/1016013826/the-u-s-surgeon-general-is-calling-covid-19-misinformation-an-urgent-threat
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 16, 2021, 06:31:28 PM
Florida leads the nation now in COVID cases and NE Florida leads Florida.  Draw your own conclusions about the seriousness of this outbreak here.
Quote
Nearly 20 percent of the nation's new coronavirus infections are now happening in Florida alone, according to a White House official.

Cases are rising across the nation as a whole as the more transmissible delta variant spreads but are concentrated in areas with low vaccination rates.

"Just four states accounted for more than 40 percent of all cases in the past week, with 1 in 5 of all cases occurring in Florida alone," White House COVID-19 coordinator Jeff Zients told reporters during a briefing Friday.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/563402-white-house-florida-accounts-for-20-percent-of-all-new-covid-infections

Quote
New COVID-19 cases in the state of Florida have nearly doubled since the previous week.

This week’s coronavirus report shows that there are 45,603 new cases within the state, nearly double the 23,562 cases the week before.

The report also shows that the statewide positivity rate is at 11.5%, higher than the 7.8% last week.

Charts from the Florida Department of Health show the number of new cases has steadily increased since mid-June, while the number of coronavirus vaccine doses being given has decreased.

Since March 1, 2020, over 11 million people in the state of Florida have been vaccinated. In total, 127,459 have been vaccinated this week.

The highest number of new cases come from 30-39-year-olds, with 8,965 new cases in that age range.

https://www.wesh.com/article/new-covid-19-cases-florida-double/37051099
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on July 17, 2021, 02:54:59 PM



a) 1/4 to 1/3 of hospital patients w/ covid19 got it after they went to the hospital
b) For the majority of hospital patients w/ covid19 , they are not at the hospital because of covid19
c) Vaccines reduce the likelihood of infections, they do not prevent it
d) Anti virals have long been used to treat a wide variety of viruses.   Not only do they help defeat active infections, they leave the patient laregly immune from future infections from the virus.    Vaccinations are not the only means for ending Covid19.


It's clear that there are some people who have not taken the vaccination.  If we truely cared about protecting them - or hell, ourselves - we'd have a conversation about what we can do to address that.

a) What vaccination strategies can we implement for encouraging but not bribing people to take a vaccination?

b) For those eschewing a jab, can we use this as an opportunity for phase 3 testing of several safe, effective anti-virals?

c) What can hospitals do to mitigate the virus from spreading in their hospital?  N95s + P100s?  There are several studies showing use of those almost 100% stops the spread of covid19 infections in hospital staff.  The few cases that do occur appear in all likelihood.  Why aren't local hospitals acting on this information?

d) Do people think it's only about age?   ~85% of deaths w/ covid19 have been people over age 65.  Maybe younger people are rationalizing tehy're not at risk.  Some of them really are not; they're at high risk.    Running around jabbing teenagers makes for great press but it's pretty wasteful.   But we need to find ways get those at high risk, people in their 20s with Type 1 diabetes, obese people in their 30s, people w/ asthma in their 40s, anyone with heart problems, et al. 

e) How do we get LTC workers to vaccinate? 

There's a lot than can be done.  Sitting around doing the same ol, same whinging and pontificating about if you don't take the Facui Juice you're killing granny may make y'll feel good, but it does jack shit to help solve the problems at hand.  You're preaching to the choir. 


So what can be done?   We've known since last dec / Jan that LTC workers as a whole were against getting vaccinated.  And here we are 7 - 8 months later and..... we're still at square one with them.   While a few facilities have required vaccinations ( some arguably doing it for PR and gving easy outs for workers, btw ), the state - hell most states in the US - are full of LTCs w/ maybe 10 or 28% of workers vaccinated.

And this is important because we know with these - like with hospitals - viruses can spread fast and --- most importantly -- they spread quickly in the facility VIA THE WORKERS.  Not a hundred percent.  But it's the diff between spreading fast in a couple days and half the residents dieing and it being contained to a handful of cases.

There's some interesting things to learn, ideas to be explored, et al.   Are y'll up for it?  Or y'll just hear to peacock about, trying to impress the choir?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on July 17, 2021, 03:49:01 PM
^Here's a simple idea: Trump, Republicans, and conservative media could join the effort to get people vaccinated.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 17, 2021, 04:12:13 PM

And one they never like to share ---> how many patients w/ covid19 did not have covid19 when they came to the hospital.


This is a serious disease.   Get serious about how y'll look at it.  The chicken little crap is getting people killed.

Are YOU vaccinated?

I will try again
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 17, 2021, 04:13:45 PM



a) 1/4 to 1/3 of hospital patients w/ covid19 got it after they went to the hospital
b) For the majority of hospital patients w/ covid19 , they are not at the hospital because of covid19
c) Vaccines reduce the likelihood of infections, they do not prevent it
d) Anti virals have long been used to treat a wide variety of viruses.   Not only do they help defeat active infections, they leave the patient laregly immune from future infections from the virus.    Vaccinations are not the only means for ending Covid19.


It's clear that there are some people who have not taken the vaccination.  If we truely cared about protecting them - or hell, ourselves - we'd have a conversation about what we can do to address that.

a) What vaccination strategies can we implement for encouraging but not bribing people to take a vaccination?

b) For those eschewing a jab, can we use this as an opportunity for phase 3 testing of several safe, effective anti-virals?

c) What can hospitals do to mitigate the virus from spreading in their hospital?  N95s + P100s?  There are several studies showing use of those almost 100% stops the spread of covid19 infections in hospital staff.  The few cases that do occur appear in all likelihood.  Why aren't local hospitals acting on this information?

d) Do people think it's only about age?   ~85% of deaths w/ covid19 have been people over age 65.  Maybe younger people are rationalizing tehy're not at risk.  Some of them really are not; they're at high risk.    Running around jabbing teenagers makes for great press but it's pretty wasteful.   But we need to find ways get those at high risk, people in their 20s with Type 1 diabetes, obese people in their 30s, people w/ asthma in their 40s, anyone with heart problems, et al. 

e) How do we get LTC workers to vaccinate? 

There's a lot than can be done.  Sitting around doing the same ol, same whinging and pontificating about if you don't take the Facui Juice you're killing granny may make y'll feel good, but it does jack shit to help solve the problems at hand.  You're preaching to the choir. 


So what can be done?   We've known since last dec / Jan that LTC workers as a whole were against getting vaccinated.  And here we are 7 - 8 months later and..... we're still at square one with them.   While a few facilities have required vaccinations ( some arguably doing it for PR and gving easy outs for workers, btw ), the state - hell most states in the US - are full of LTCs w/ maybe 10 or 28% of workers vaccinated.

And this is important because we know with these - like with hospitals - viruses can spread fast and --- most importantly -- they spread quickly in the facility VIA THE WORKERS.  Not a hundred percent.  But it's the diff between spreading fast in a couple days and half the residents dieing and it being contained to a handful of cases.

There's some interesting things to learn, ideas to be explored, et al.   Are y'll up for it?  Or y'll just hear to peacock about, trying to impress the choir?


Source please
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 17, 2021, 04:49:48 PM



a) 1/4 to 1/3 of hospital patients w/ covid19 got it after they went to the hospital
b) For the majority of hospital patients w/ covid19 , they are not at the hospital because of covid19
c) Vaccines reduce the likelihood of infections, they do not prevent it
d) Anti virals have long been used to treat a wide variety of viruses.   Not only do they help defeat active infections, they leave the patient laregly immune from future infections from the virus.    Vaccinations are not the only means for ending Covid19.


It's clear that there are some people who have not taken the vaccination.  If we truely cared about protecting them - or hell, ourselves - we'd have a conversation about what we can do to address that.

a) What vaccination strategies can we implement for encouraging but not bribing people to take a vaccination?

b) For those eschewing a jab, can we use this as an opportunity for phase 3 testing of several safe, effective anti-virals?

c) What can hospitals do to mitigate the virus from spreading in their hospital?  N95s + P100s?  There are several studies showing use of those almost 100% stops the spread of covid19 infections in hospital staff.  The few cases that do occur appear in all likelihood.  Why aren't local hospitals acting on this information?

d) Do people think it's only about age?   ~85% of deaths w/ covid19 have been people over age 65.  Maybe younger people are rationalizing tehy're not at risk.  Some of them really are not; they're at high risk.    Running around jabbing teenagers makes for great press but it's pretty wasteful.   But we need to find ways get those at high risk, people in their 20s with Type 1 diabetes, obese people in their 30s, people w/ asthma in their 40s, anyone with heart problems, et al. 

e) How do we get LTC workers to vaccinate? 

There's a lot than can be done.  Sitting around doing the same ol, same whinging and pontificating about if you don't take the Facui Juice you're killing granny may make y'll feel good, but it does jack shit to help solve the problems at hand.  You're preaching to the choir. 


So what can be done?   We've known since last dec / Jan that LTC workers as a whole were against getting vaccinated.  And here we are 7 - 8 months later and..... we're still at square one with them.   While a few facilities have required vaccinations ( some arguably doing it for PR and gving easy outs for workers, btw ), the state - hell most states in the US - are full of LTCs w/ maybe 10 or 28% of workers vaccinated.

And this is important because we know with these - like with hospitals - viruses can spread fast and --- most importantly -- they spread quickly in the facility VIA THE WORKERS.  Not a hundred percent.  But it's the diff between spreading fast in a couple days and half the residents dieing and it being contained to a handful of cases.

There's some interesting things to learn, ideas to be explored, et al.   Are y'll up for it?  Or y'll just hear to peacock about, trying to impress the choir?
Verbose drival.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 17, 2021, 05:23:56 PM
I’ve had enough of posts like the above. This is not a place to downplay this illness. People are getting sick and dying needlessly. Any future comments of that nature will be deleted.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 17, 2021, 06:00:15 PM
If everyone would simply get vaccinated, we could put Covid behind us.  Just like polio, whooping cough, measles, chicken pox, TB, smallpox, etc.  Stop thinking of all the reason why people don't get shots, and think about being on lock down, wearing masks forever, ventilators, IC wards, and death.  Get your flippin' shots.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on July 17, 2021, 06:17:53 PM
Nearly 20 percent of the nation’s new coronavirus infections are now happening in Florida alone, The Hill reports.

Currently, the state is reporting an average of 29 new infections for every 100,000 people per day — more than four times the national average.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/563402-white-house-florida-accounts-for-20-percent-of-all-new-covid-infections (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/563402-white-house-florida-accounts-for-20-percent-of-all-new-covid-infections)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on July 17, 2021, 07:22:45 PM
The anti-vaxxers are pretty much costing the entire country, and especially the economy,  a chance to get back to being completely normal.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on July 18, 2021, 08:18:09 AM
The anti-vaxxers are pretty much costing the entire country, and especially the economy,  a chance to get back to being completely normal.

Yep. And when we do have to go back to masks and 1/2 capacity and lockdowns, etc. they will blame Fauci and Biden instead of themselves.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on July 18, 2021, 09:41:00 AM
The United States recorded 79,310 new cases of COVID-19, more than any other country in the world, according to Johns Hopkins University.

The soaring number matches the level hit in October 2020, a record at the time, though it would not remain so for long.

The Week quotes a WHO epidemiologist: “We’re getting further away from the end of the pandemic.”

https://theweek.com/news/1002717/who-epidemiologist-were-getting-further-away-from-the-end-of-covid-19-pandemic (https://theweek.com/news/1002717/who-epidemiologist-were-getting-further-away-from-the-end-of-covid-19-pandemic)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 18, 2021, 10:56:25 AM
^Here's a simple idea: Trump, Republicans, and conservative media could join the effort to get people vaccinated.
It is a simple idea and I agree... it's too simple though. There are many cohorts and communities not in that group that are refusing or reluctant to be vaccinated. Leaders of these groups need to be more convincing to get them vaccinated.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on July 18, 2021, 11:02:34 AM
The FDA also needs to show a stronger sense of urgency with moving the vaccines past emergency use authorization. Once that happens more people will be required to get it, such as the military.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on July 18, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
^Here's a simple idea: Trump, Republicans, and conservative media could join the effort to get people vaccinated.
It is a simple idea and I agree... it's too simple though. There are many cohorts and communities not in that group that are refusing or reluctant to be vaccinated. Leaders of these groups need to be more convincing to get them vaccinated.

Cynically, I'm surprised they're not the biggest advocates for vaccination. I thought Trump would be all over people getting the "Trump vaccine", positioning it as his accomplishment and taking as much credit as possible for "single handedly " defeating the pandemic despite the "fearmongering" from Fauci, scientists, and you know...reality in general.

I don't really care if it's complete crap, if it encourages people to get vaccinated, good. It's a shame they've chosen to sell out the incredible achievement of the vaccine instead, and I'm not even sure it was politically savvy to do so. Lose-lose.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on July 18, 2021, 11:47:49 AM
Pretty sure Trump just does it out of spite.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 18, 2021, 12:57:43 PM
Pretty sure Trump just does it out of spite.
Yup...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on July 19, 2021, 05:34:17 PM
Three weeks ago Jacksonville had less than 100 people hospitalized for covid. Today there are over 600 and rising fast.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 19, 2021, 05:56:33 PM
Hope it isn’t bl8jaxnative… he seems to have disappeared
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Charles Hunter on July 19, 2021, 06:01:56 PM
Hope it isn’t bl8jaxnative… he seems to have disappeared

He was around over the weekend.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 19, 2021, 10:56:02 PM
NBC News highlights UF Health - Jacksonville's record for COVID cases:

Quote
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. — With the state's Covid-19 cases roughly doubling each week, Florida has become one of the country's biggest hot spots for the latest surge fueled by the highly contagious delta variant, as well as vaccine skepticism.

UF Health in Jacksonville said it broke its record for most hospitalized Covid patients Monday. At the start of Sunday, the hospital had 86. At one point Monday, the number reached 126, an increase of more than 40 percent in just one day.

"I saw it when it was crazy in January," nurse Sabrina Oetterer said. "And I thought for a while we saw the light at the end of the tunnel with only one Covid-positive patient. And now, there hasn't even been enough time to realize that we're back to where we started."

Florida accounts for a fifth of new infections nationwide.

"We're gaining cases at such a rapid rate we don't really know where it's going to stop," said Chad Neilsen, the hospital's director of infection prevention. "We aren't even thinking a couple of months. We're thinking what's going to immediately happen in the next week."

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/jacksonville-hospital-breaks-covid-record-amid-latest-florida-surge-n1274402
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on July 20, 2021, 04:40:47 PM
Here are a few ideas once the FDA grants full approval:

1. Require vaccine for all military personnel.
2. Require vaccine for domestic air travel, train travel, and cruises.
3. Require vaccine for health insurance coverage of covid related care.
4. Require vaccine for schools.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 20, 2021, 06:31:14 PM
No argument from me…

Your “freedom to choose “ ends when you are possibly infecting others…
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on July 20, 2021, 08:59:32 PM
The unvaccinated are also holding local hospitals hostage, forcing elective surgeries to be cancelled and creating huge ER wait times. If you don't want a vaccine why would you want everything you're gonna get at the hospital?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 20, 2021, 11:57:43 PM
By some reports, Jacksonville is leading most all of the US in this COVID wave.  CNN posted an article tonight with this quote from UF Health's staff:
Quote
"We could be an entire hospital full of Covid in a matter of a month if things don't begin to slow down or vaccinations don't increase," Neilsen said. "We need policymakers at a higher level though to really listen to us. Start doubling down on vaccinations pushes, stop with disinformation campaigns on social media. And really start helping the health care community because we are starting to reach a breaking point across the state."

Staff at one Florida hospital figured they had seen the worst of Covid-19. They may be proven wrong

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/20/us/florida-hospitals-coronavirus/index.html

Looking back over this thread, it is really outrageous that some posters accused those of us warning of this wave as fear mongers.  It is just plain factual and commonsense that with over half the population unvaccinated, mask mandates banned by the governor (and the governor undermining Fauci's standing), people letting their guard down on social distancing and a variant twice or more contagious that anyone couldn't see this coming.

Now, if any of us have a serious illness requiring attention from a hospital, we are at great risk due to a lack of resources that are devoted to unvaccinated persons.  I don't want anyone denied medical care but, in fairness, the hospitals really should prioritize taking those that are vaccinated with ailments over the unvaccinated with COVID as the latter chose, with few exceptions, to put themselves in this position and the former are victims of those decisions.

I just talked with a highly exposed person (they serve the public) this week who doesn't believe anything positive about the vaccines, feels they haven't gotten it yet so won't likely get it going forward, claims to be in good health (even though they are a chain smoker) and believes COVID is less risky than taking the vaccine and akin to having a cold at worse.  Nothing I could say would get them to waiver from this position.  They appeared to totally tune out anything to the contrary to this position indicating that no matter what info was available supporting getting vaccinated, it wouldn't "reach" them.  They also had no problem risking closing their business (and losing its income) for at least 2 weeks should they get COVID.  If this is typical of many of the unvaccinated (and based on conversations with others, it appears to be a common attitude), mandating vaccines for most activities maybe the only way to push them to get it done as they will have a hard time living daily life otherwise.  Yet, this too, has been opposed by the governor.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on July 21, 2021, 07:50:20 AM
U.S. life expectancy fell by a year and a half in 2020, the largest one-year decline since World War II, the AP reports.

The decrease for both Black Americans and Hispanic Americans was even worse: three years.

https://apnews.com/article/science-health-coronavirus-pandemic-fac0863b8c252d21d6f6a22a2e3eab86 (https://apnews.com/article/science-health-coronavirus-pandemic-fac0863b8c252d21d6f6a22a2e3eab86)

Looking at the chart in the link, this was one of only a small handful of declines since 1943. The other declines have been .2-.3% versus 1.5% in 2020.   
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Peter Griffin on July 21, 2021, 08:38:39 AM
Some of y'all are incredibly authoritarian, scarily so.

If you've got your vaccine, feel safe. Stop worrying about what others are doing. Start worrying about yourself.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on July 21, 2021, 08:50:45 AM
Some of y'all are incredibly authoritarian, scarily so.

If you've got your vaccine, feel safe. Stop worrying about what others are doing. Start worrying about yourself.

The more people that are unvaccinated, the more likely that new variants will emerge that will be a greater threat and resistant to the vaccine. That is a threat to everyone.

If FOX News and Facebook had been around in the '50's, Polio would still be around today.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: marcuscnelson on July 21, 2021, 08:54:07 AM
Some of y'all are incredibly authoritarian, scarily so.

If you've got your vaccine, feel safe. Stop worrying about what others are doing. Start worrying about yourself.

Quite a bit of the discussion now is surrounding the possibility of that no longer being the case if this keeps up. Variants are the result of unvaccinated people, and the more variants allowed to exist, the more likely it is that there could be a vaccine-resistant variant that takes us back to square one. On top of that, every unvaccinated patient suffering from COVID in a hospital bed is taking a bed from someone else. Surgeries are being canceled (https://twitter.com/theresamlewis/status/1417435029177880600?s=20) because of the rise in COVID patients.

We don't live in a vacuum, so worrying about ourselves in this case means worrying about other people.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Peter Griffin on July 21, 2021, 09:18:26 AM
Whatever makes you feel better, I guess.

Myself? Vaxxed and not worried, staying fit and drinking plenty of water. Not else much to be done at this point. You'll never convince the hypothetical anti-vaxxer to get it, so why waste your time wringing hands about those whom you have no control over? Don't come into contact with these people, and if you suspect them being near to you, pop on an N-95 mask to protect yourself!
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: JPalmer on July 21, 2021, 10:19:56 AM
I honestly think a lot of these people are just scared of needles and don't want to admit it.  They are just using this Anti-Authoritarian stance as a cover, but are really just scared of getting a shot or two.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 21, 2021, 10:29:04 AM
I believe non vaccinated people should be thought of as no different than a reckless driver, a drunk driver, or "knockout" people who randomly punch passersby.  Our own JFRD has a low vaccination rate.  How is it ok for a rescue person to give a senior or child covid while transporting them?  Stop thinking of "I, me, myself, etc."  This should be thought of as a weapon.  Assault with a deadly weapon.  We spend millions each year on suicide prevention and helping those thinking of suicide.  Shouldn't we feel the same of innocent people being assaulted with other's Covid?  Our first responders should have no choice as to whether they are vaccinated or not.  Unvaccinated people giving this disease to others should have the same stigma as other assaults.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 21, 2021, 10:58:51 AM
Whatever makes you feel better, I guess.

Myself? Vaxxed and not worried, staying fit and drinking plenty of water. Not else much to be done at this point. You'll never convince the hypothetical anti-vaxxer to get it, so why waste your time wringing hands about those whom you have no control over? Don't come into contact with these people, and if you suspect them being near to you, pop on an N-95 mask to protect yourself!

The real authoritarianism is the state governments coming in and telling local govs, colleges and private businesses what they can and can't do to stop the thread. Mask orders are banned in FL. Businesses can't require proof of a vaccine on their own private property. Local governments have had their hands tied. If you're worried about something being "incredibly authoritarian" look at the state's big government approach to kowtowing to anti-vax voters.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 21, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Some of y'all are incredibly authoritarian, scarily so.

If you've got your vaccine, feel safe. Stop worrying about what others are doing. Start worrying about yourself.

I am worrying about myself.  With the Delta variant more transmissable and up to 35% or more "breakthrough" infections for the vaccinated, the unvaccinated are definitely a threat to me and my loved ones.  Further, they are taking my or my loved ones' potential spot in a hospital if I need that level of care for a life threatening situation.  Lastly, they are giving the virus millions of opportunities to further mutate into an even more dangerous iteration which could overcome the vaccines and/or immunity currently available starting a whole new pandemic of a worse kind.

Whatever makes you feel better, I guess.

Myself? Vaxxed and not worried, staying fit and drinking plenty of water. Not else much to be done at this point. You'll never convince the hypothetical anti-vaxxer to get it, so why waste your time wringing hands about those whom you have no control over? Don't come into contact with these people, and if you suspect them being near to you, pop on an N-95 mask to protect yourself!

You are naive to think your fellow citizens can't impact your health.  That's what makes it a "pandemic."  Most of us can't avoid all people all the time.  I guess you never leave your house and no one comes to visit you.  Great that you are taking all these steps to reduce your risk but that isn't the whole story. 

As I noted in a prior post, if all else fails, we should at least be mandating vaccines for institutional settings, cruises and those on the front lines with the public.  Our governor thinks otherwise as he won't even allow mask mandates and he continues to hide the data from the public while stating he doesn't see anything unusual happening at this time despite "on the ground" reports from the hospitals to the contrary.  This on top of his ridicule of Fauci and the CDC.  These actions, or lack thereof, certainly don't send a message to the unvaccinated to take this seriously and get the shot.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Peter Griffin on July 21, 2021, 11:54:01 AM
You are naive to think your fellow citizens can't impact your health.  That's what makes it a "pandemic."  Most of us can't avoid all people all the time.  I guess you never leave your house and no one comes to visit you.  Great that you are taking all these steps to reduce your risk but that isn't the whole story. 

It's naive to not realize that you can just wear an N-95 and be vaccinated, and you should be able to stand right next to a COVID positive person and reduce your risk on infection via the N-95 mask, and reduce your risk of hospitalization via the vaccine.

I go out and do whatever I want, with no mask, in as close contact with people as I'd like. I would do this with or without the vax.

You now have the power in your hands to go about your business and protect yourself as much as you'd like. Why you feel the need to pontificate that vaccines should be mandatory anywhere is beyond me. The prevailing narrative from the early days of the pandemic no longer applies, you CAN protect YOURSELF now, you do NOT have to rely on others' actions to be safe now. Thank GOODNESS. 
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 21, 2021, 12:06:44 PM
You are naive to think your fellow citizens can't impact your health.  That's what makes it a "pandemic."  Most of us can't avoid all people all the time.  I guess you never leave your house and no one comes to visit you.  Great that you are taking all these steps to reduce your risk but that isn't the whole story. 

It's naive to not realize that you can just wear an N-95 and be vaccinated, and you should be able to stand right next to a COVID positive person and reduce your risk on infection via the N-95 mask, and reduce your risk of hospitalization via the vaccine.

I go out and do whatever I want, with no mask, in as close contact with people as I'd like. I would do this with or without the vax.

You now have the power in your hands to go about your business and protect yourself as much as you'd like. Why you feel the need to pontificate that vaccines should be mandatory anywhere is beyond me. The prevailing narrative from the early days of the pandemic no longer applies, you CAN protect YOURSELF now, you do NOT have to rely on others' actions to be safe now. Thank GOODNESS.

And, what's your response to taking up hospital capacity unnecessarily and providing fertile ground for mutations?  To add, who do you think is absorbing all the added medical costs and lost productivity (Hint: You and I via increased insurance premiums, our medicare and other taxes and in the cost of products and services we buy)?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on July 21, 2021, 12:56:34 PM
Kids still aren't vaccinated and the Delta variant is not sparing them like before. Wolfson's Peds ICU is full.

Furthermore, vaccines being mandatory is standard practice.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 21, 2021, 01:58:58 PM
You are naive to think your fellow citizens can't impact your health.  That's what makes it a "pandemic."  Most of us can't avoid all people all the time.  I guess you never leave your house and no one comes to visit you.  Great that you are taking all these steps to reduce your risk but that isn't the whole story. 

It's naive to not realize that you can just wear an N-95 and be vaccinated, and you should be able to stand right next to a COVID positive person and reduce your risk on infection via the N-95 mask, and reduce your risk of hospitalization via the vaccine.

I go out and do whatever I want, with no mask, in as close contact with people as I'd like. I would do this with or without the vax.

You now have the power in your hands to go about your business and protect yourself as much as you'd like. Why you feel the need to pontificate that vaccines should be mandatory anywhere is beyond me. The prevailing narrative from the early days of the pandemic no longer applies, you CAN protect YOURSELF now, you do NOT have to rely on others' actions to be safe now. Thank GOODNESS.
And you can wear a bullet proof vest to protect oneself from gunshots too, huh?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Peter Griffin on July 21, 2021, 02:25:07 PM
And, what's your response to taking up hospital capacity unnecessarily and providing fertile ground for mutations?  To add, who do you think is absorbing all the added medical costs and lost productivity (Hint: You and I via increased insurance premiums, our medicare and other taxes and in the cost of products and services we buy)?

Complete subject change, which is very annoying, but I'll respond. I feel the same about that as I do about people who smoke cigarettes, speed, ride motorcycles without helmets, or eat greasy fatty food with soda and mayo-dipped french fries. I feel that they should be more reponsible with THEIR health so they don't overburden the system and cost society money, and I try to avoid them so I don't deal with the secondary effects of their actions (secondhand smoke, collisions, involuntary manslaughter, and olfactory assault, respectively.)

And you can wear a bullet proof vest to protect oneself from gunshots too, huh?

In some areas (with notably strict gun laws) you almost have to in order to stay safe, yes! But, as you're likely sure, your argument is a clearly false equivalency. People don't spray bullets out of their mouth as they sneeze, you may not even know you're spreading COVID, and of course a gunshot wound is FAR FAR FAR more fatal than a COVID case, so "walking around with COVID" and "spraying bullets in the air" are completely incomparable. Your argument sucks, and this whole thread

SUCKS

SO

MUCH
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 21, 2021, 02:48:37 PM
And, what's your response to taking up hospital capacity unnecessarily and providing fertile ground for mutations?  To add, who do you think is absorbing all the added medical costs and lost productivity (Hint: You and I via increased insurance premiums, our medicare and other taxes and in the cost of products and services we buy)?

Complete subject change, which is very annoying, but I'll respond. I feel the same about that as I do about people who smoke cigarettes, speed, ride motorcycles without helmets, or eat greasy fatty food with soda and mayo-dipped french fries. I feel that they should be more reponsible with THEIR health so they don't overburden the system and cost society money, and I try to avoid them so I don't deal with the secondary effects of their actions (secondhand smoke, collisions, involuntary manslaughter, and olfactory assault, respectively.)

No change in subject, just more reasons to be concerned about the unvaccinated beyond what you wish to consider.  You are living in a bubble to think "avoidance" of all the people with issues you listed is an adequate measure of your safety unless you are a hermit.  Maybe you are!

Your argument sucks, and this whole thread

SUCKS

SO

MUCH

Maybe, then, you should practice your own medicine and "avoid" this thread as you do all other "threats" to your lifestyle.  8)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on July 21, 2021, 03:01:11 PM
Jax hospitalizations at all time high.

Lenny Curry press conference: https://youtu.be/bAX_o8PSTrg
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 21, 2021, 03:23:10 PM
And, what's your response to taking up hospital capacity unnecessarily and providing fertile ground for mutations?  To add, who do you think is absorbing all the added medical costs and lost productivity (Hint: You and I via increased insurance premiums, our medicare and other taxes and in the cost of products and services we buy)?

Complete subject change, which is very annoying, but I'll respond. I feel the same about that as I do about people who smoke cigarettes, speed, ride motorcycles without helmets, or eat greasy fatty food with soda and mayo-dipped french fries. I feel that they should be more reponsible with THEIR health so they don't overburden the system and cost society money, and I try to avoid them so I don't deal with the secondary effects of their actions (secondhand smoke, collisions, involuntary manslaughter, and olfactory assault, respectively.)

And you can wear a bullet proof vest to protect oneself from gunshots too, huh?

In some areas (with notably strict gun laws) you almost have to in order to stay safe, yes! But, as you're likely sure, your argument is a clearly false equivalency. People don't spray bullets out of their mouth as they sneeze, you may not even know you're spreading COVID, and of course a gunshot wound is FAR FAR FAR more fatal than a COVID case, so "walking around with COVID" and "spraying bullets in the air" are completely incomparable. Your argument sucks, and this whole thread

SUCKS

SO

MUCH
"I'd rather argue with a hundred idiots, than have one agree with me."
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 21, 2021, 05:06:58 PM
And, what's your response to taking up hospital capacity unnecessarily and providing fertile ground for mutations?  To add, who do you think is absorbing all the added medical costs and lost productivity (Hint: You and I via increased insurance premiums, our medicare and other taxes and in the cost of products and services we buy)?

Complete subject change, which is very annoying, but I'll respond. I feel the same about that as I do about people who smoke cigarettes, speed, ride motorcycles without helmets, or eat greasy fatty food with soda and mayo-dipped french fries. I feel that they should be more reponsible with THEIR health so they don't overburden the system and cost society money, and I try to avoid them so I don't deal with the secondary effects of their actions (secondhand smoke, collisions, involuntary manslaughter, and olfactory assault, respectively.)

And you can wear a bullet proof vest to protect oneself from gunshots too, huh?

In some areas (with notably strict gun laws) you almost have to in order to stay safe, yes! But, as you're likely sure, your argument is a clearly false equivalency. People don't spray bullets out of their mouth as they sneeze, you may not even know you're spreading COVID, and of course a gunshot wound is FAR FAR FAR more fatal than a COVID case, so "walking around with COVID" and "spraying bullets in the air" are completely incomparable. Your argument sucks, and this whole thread

SUCKS

SO

MUCH

Feel free to stop posting in the thread anytime.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on July 22, 2021, 07:26:56 AM
Covid cases nearly triple in two weeks

“Across the U.S., the seven-day rolling average for daily new cases rose over the past two weeks to more than 37,000 on Tuesday, up from less than 13,700 on July 6… Health officials blame the delta variant and slowing vaccination rates. Just 56.2% of Americans have gotten at least one dose of the vaccine, according to the CDC.”

https://apnews.com/article/health-religion-coronavirus-pandemic-michael-brown-dbc0303c3fa13643ca2dc0eb8d806f33
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on July 22, 2021, 09:15:51 AM
We need real leadership in the Governors office, not a failed Trump 'wanna be......'

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 22, 2021, 10:35:11 AM
We need real leadership in the Governors office, not a failed Trump 'wanna be......'


You mean Andrew Gillum?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on July 22, 2021, 10:55:28 AM
"Dont Fauci my Florida..."  He should deliver those coozies to his supporters in the ICU
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 22, 2021, 11:11:45 AM
We need real leadership in the Governors office, not a failed Trump 'wanna be......'

You mean Andrew Gillum?

We have the same problem at the state level as at the local. Following a bell curve, you have two candidates, one each to the further right and left.  Then, two or more in the middle.  With our primary system, the most passionate voters, those to the far left and right, concentrate their votes in their respective "extreme" candidates for the general election while the larger share in the middle get diluted among multiple candidates.  Those of us in the middle have no choice but to pick one of these "less appealing" (i.e. unlikely to serve the greater electorate) candidates who believe they only have to serve the "extremes" that got them to where they are. 

It is very frustrating to watch and, worse, to be governed by.  We need to look at alternatives such as open primaries, rank choice voting, or a centrist party to focus the middle of the political spectrum.  Until then, we are going to frequently get "wacko" politicians.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on July 22, 2021, 12:48:56 PM
We need real leadership in the Governors office, not a failed Trump 'wanna be......'


You mean Andrew Gillum?

He would have been a better choice, honestly. He would have either avoided the issues/depression/downfall that resulted from losing (by winning), or he would have  simply resigned once the downfall hit the public. At least he wouldn't deliberately put the public health in jeopardy while supporting all sorts of un-democratic (and likely unconstitutional) nonsense. Nor would he wake up every day wondering how we can divide the state and nation further. He also wouldn't give credence and cover to insurrection while trying to take up their banner for 2024.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 22, 2021, 01:12:22 PM
We need real leadership in the Governors office, not a failed Trump 'wanna be......'


You mean Andrew Gillum?

He would have been a better choice, honestly. He would have either avoided the issues/depression/downfall that resulted from losing (by winning), or he would have  simply resigned once the downfall hit the public. At least he wouldn't deliberately put the public health in jeopardy while supporting all sorts of un-democratic (and likely unconstitutional) nonsense. Nor would he wake up every day wondering how we can divide the state and nation further. He also wouldn't give credence and cover to insurrection while trying to take up their banner for 2024.

Or siphoning off limited state resources to stick his nose into the border business of the Feds and Texas just to gain some national political capital with Trump supporters.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 22, 2021, 01:48:29 PM
We need real leadership in the Governors office, not a failed Trump 'wanna be......'


You mean Andrew Gillum?

He would have been a better choice, honestly. He would have either avoided the issues/depression/downfall that resulted from losing (by winning), or he would have  simply resigned once the downfall hit the public. At least he wouldn't deliberately put the public health in jeopardy while supporting all sorts of un-democratic (and likely unconstitutional) nonsense. Nor would he wake up every day wondering how we can divide the state and nation further. He also wouldn't give credence and cover to insurrection while trying to take up their banner for 2024.



Honestly… rofl…
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 22, 2021, 02:45:42 PM
We need real leadership in the Governors office, not a failed Trump 'wanna be......'


You mean Andrew Gillum?

He would have been a better choice, honestly. He would have either avoided the issues/depression/downfall that resulted from losing (by winning), or he would have  simply resigned once the downfall hit the public. At least he wouldn't deliberately put the public health in jeopardy while supporting all sorts of un-democratic (and likely unconstitutional) nonsense. Nor would he wake up every day wondering how we can divide the state and nation further. He also wouldn't give credence and cover to insurrection while trying to take up their banner for 2024.



Honestly… rofl…

I voted for Gillum over DeSantis but he was clearly a trainwreck waiting to happen. I wanted Gwen Graham. I don’t think either she or Adam Putnam would have let things get like this. It’s a pity that our current system tends to favor the fringes over the middle.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 22, 2021, 02:47:24 PM
We need real leadership in the Governors office, not a failed Trump 'wanna be......'


You mean Andrew Gillum?
If we had a choice, I'd pick Gillum.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: acme54321 on July 22, 2021, 02:49:37 PM
Yeah mean the guy found so wasted that he couldn't communicate, in a hotel room full of meth, with an overdosimg hooker?  Interesting.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 22, 2021, 03:15:32 PM
Yeah mean the guy found so wasted that he couldn't communicate, in a hotel room full of meth, with an overdosimg hooker?  Interesting.
I thought that was Marion Berry.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 22, 2021, 04:26:36 PM
Yeah mean the guy found so wasted that he couldn't communicate, in a hotel room full of meth, with an overdosimg hooker?  Interesting.
I thought that was Marion Berry.

No, Berry won his election.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 22, 2021, 04:52:04 PM
OK, after giving it more thought....I still prefer Gillum.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Charles Hunter on July 22, 2021, 07:40:56 PM
NFL gets serious about COVID vaccination.
Quote


NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reported Thursday that the NFL sent a memo to its clubs stating that if a game cannot be rescheduled during the 18-week schedule due to a COVID-19 outbreak among unvaccinated players, the team with the outbreak will forfeit and be credited with a loss, per sources informed of the situation.

In addition, players on both teams will not be paid for the lost contest, and the team responsible for the cancelled game due to unvaccinated players will cover financial losses and be subject to potential discipline from the Commissioner's office.

From NFL.com https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-covid-19-outbreaks-unvaccinated-players-forfeit-cancelled-game


Wonder how "We don't need no vaccine requirements" Desantis will respond.  Is he going to take on the NFL?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on July 22, 2021, 08:24:17 PM
Good. The unvaccinated need to start feeling the financial burden they are creating.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 23, 2021, 06:34:06 AM
OK, after giving it more thought....I still prefer Gillum.
Not surprised
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 23, 2021, 06:39:07 AM
This all seems to be emanating from 4th of July super spreader weekend... the good news is the Darwin effect is thinning the herd of anti vaxxers...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: acme54321 on July 23, 2021, 08:36:43 AM
OK, after giving it more thought....I still prefer Gillum.

Sure you do
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 23, 2021, 11:48:48 AM
Trump was elected President with a past not too different than Gillum.  What's the difference?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 23, 2021, 11:59:45 AM
Trump was elected President with a past not too different than Gillum.  What's the difference?

Trump was a historically terrible president.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: JaxAvondale on July 23, 2021, 08:32:43 PM
Well, the NFL is definitely taking a stance.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31869652/rick-dennison-minnesota-vikings-assistant-refusing-covid-19-vaccine-sources-say
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on July 23, 2021, 10:19:25 PM
Gillum paid a $25 million dollar fraud settlement for Gillum University? Don't remember that.


https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-university-lawsuit-settlement-233772

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 25, 2021, 08:49:29 AM
Interesting statistical information here...

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/us-vaccine-demographics.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/#us
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 25, 2021, 06:08:16 PM
For those who like to point out that the death rate from COVID-19 is lower than it used to be, that's true. But here's a rerun of the list of "long COVID" nasties that can affect you even if you survive:

Loss of smell or taste
Depression or anxiety
Difficulty breathing or shortness of breath
Tiredness or fatigue
Difficulty thinking or concentrating (sometimes referred to as “brain fog”)
Chest or stomach pain
Erectile dysfunction
Headache
Fast-beating or pounding heart (also known as heart palpitations)
Joint or muscle pain
Pins-and-needles feeling
Diarrhea
Sleep problems
Dizziness on standing (lightheadedness)
Change in smell or taste
Changes in period cycles
Blood clots
Strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome
Multiorgan effects or autoimmune conditions
Multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on July 26, 2021, 02:54:58 PM
For those who like to point out that the death rate from COVID-19 is lower than it used to be, that's true. But here's a rerun of the list of "long COVID" nasties that can affect you even if you survive:

Loss of smell or taste
Depression or anxiety
Difficulty breathing or shortness of breath
Tiredness or fatigue
Difficulty thinking or concentrating (sometimes referred to as “brain fog”)
Chest or stomach pain
Erectile dysfunction
Headache
Fast-beating or pounding heart (also known as heart palpitations)
Joint or muscle pain
Pins-and-needles feeling
Diarrhea
Sleep problems
Dizziness on standing (lightheadedness)
Change in smell or taste
Changes in period cycles
Blood clots
Strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome
Multiorgan effects or autoimmune conditions
Multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS)

We've had a very bad third wave over here. The number of new cases has fallen for the past five days, but hospitalisations are up. And everything opened up on the 19th - so there could be a lag before we start seeing lots of new cases. Apparently a lot of younger people are being hospitalised this time, so the Delta variant appears to affect younger people more severely.

It's all a bit stressful, tbh.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 26, 2021, 03:10:47 PM
Yeah... the popular meme that the unvaccinated are uneducated right wingers is only partially correct...  according to the Bloomberg numbers only the American Asians seem to be mostly on board with vaccination...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 26, 2021, 03:49:51 PM
I think, and hope, to see many companies do what Mayo has done.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/healthcare/2021/07/26/mayo-clinic-jacksonville-calls-staff-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19/8093287002/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 26, 2021, 04:10:15 PM
Absolutely!  There is no excuse for healthcare workers to not be vaccinated. Medical exemptions should be reassigned to non patient contact...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 26, 2021, 04:43:49 PM
Here's another...https://www.news4jax.com/news/2021/07/26/va-makes-covid-19-vaccine-mandatory-for-health-care-workers/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 26, 2021, 04:50:46 PM
When snake and BT agree you should be able to hear ice forming in hell...  :)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 26, 2021, 07:22:43 PM
Agreed.  For once you are correct. (J/K) :)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on July 27, 2021, 02:51:37 AM
Agreed.  For once you are correct. (J/K) :)

I guess hell just froze again, because I agree with BT, too.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on July 27, 2021, 02:53:41 AM
Yeah... the popular meme that the unvaccinated are uneducated right wingers is only partially correct...  according to the Bloomberg numbers only the American Asians seem to be mostly on board with vaccination...

I think we tend to simplify things and adopt a narrative that suits us. While I would agree that (in my opinion) those who are refusing vaccines are doing us a disservice, it's not just their "fault" that the virus is spreading. And I personally don't think demonisation is going to get decent results!


Edit: and one thing I forgot to mention earlier is that last week or so, 60% of hospital admissions in England were non-vaccinated people. So, by extension, 40% had at least one jab.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: WarDamJagFan on July 27, 2021, 05:21:16 AM
Yeah... the popular meme that the unvaccinated are uneducated right wingers is only partially correct...  according to the Bloomberg numbers only the American Asians seem to be mostly on board with vaccination...

I think we tend to simplify things and adopt a narrative that suits us. While I would agree that (in my opinion) those who are refusing vaccines are doing us a disservice, it's not just their "fault" that the virus is spreading. And I personally don't think demonisation is going to get decent results!


Edit: and one thing I forgot to mention earlier is that last week or so, 60% of hospital admissions in England were non-vaccinated people. So, by extension, 40% had at least one jab.

Would have to agree with you there. The hyper-demonization of those who choose to not get vaccinated is a pretty sad spectacle to watch. As someone who is young, constantly outdoors, triathlon-ready fitness level, has healthy eating habits, does not bar hop on the weekends and rarely gets sick because I have an immune system that works, I've decided at this point to still hold off on getting the vaccine. Covid does not pose a risk to me statistically speaking. But for some odd reason, this now automatically puts me into the bucket of "Anti-Vaxxer" and someone who doesn't care if Grandma dies given the overall sentiment of this message board and similar outlets.

My wife - who works in CT at Baptist - is vaccinated. Most people I know are vaccinated, and honestly probably should be. If the vaccines are as effective as we are told, then there shouldn't be this apocalyptic level of panic from those who are vax'd towards those who are not. If you are a 300 pound diabetic and refuse the vaccine then ok, good luck. Sure, there will always be anecdotal stories of someone in my category who gets the 'rona and ends up in the hospital. It's still evident at this point though that it's not the norm.

Additionally, there's never been a better time for health officials to actually start pounding the podium about the need for people to start taking better care of their own health. 'Rona has ravaged the obese and those who's immune systems are already compromised. For some odd reason, that topic still is nowhere to be seen in the news. It's simply, stay away from everyone and get your shot. Because nothing makes life more enjoyable than perpetual isolation.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 27, 2021, 06:21:25 AM
I wish you luck because luck will be required as your current health condition is no protection against an airborne virus... additionally... death isn't the only long term outcome after infection. Your unvaccinated status can make you an asymptomatic carrier and one who causes viral mutations...

Society thanks you...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on July 27, 2021, 08:47:27 AM
Yeah... the popular meme that the unvaccinated are uneducated right wingers is only partially correct...  according to the Bloomberg numbers only the American Asians seem to be mostly on board with vaccination...

I think we tend to simplify things and adopt a narrative that suits us. While I would agree that (in my opinion) those who are refusing vaccines are doing us a disservice, it's not just their "fault" that the virus is spreading. And I personally don't think demonisation is going to get decent results!


Edit: and one thing I forgot to mention earlier is that last week or so, 60% of hospital admissions in England were non-vaccinated people. So, by extension, 40% had at least one jab.

Would have to agree with you there. The hyper-demonization of those who choose to not get vaccinated is a pretty sad spectacle to watch. As someone who is young, constantly outdoors, triathlon-ready fitness level, has healthy eating habits, does not bar hop on the weekends and rarely gets sick because I have an immune system that works, I've decided at this point to still hold off on getting the vaccine. Covid does not pose a risk to me statistically speaking. But for some odd reason, this now automatically puts me into the bucket of "Anti-Vaxxer" and someone who doesn't care if Grandma dies given the overall sentiment of this message board and similar outlets.

My wife - who works in CT at Baptist - is vaccinated. Most people I know are vaccinated, and honestly probably should be. If the vaccines are as effective as we are told, then there shouldn't be this apocalyptic level of panic from those who are vax'd towards those who are not. If you are a 300 pound diabetic and refuse the vaccine then ok, good luck. Sure, there will always be anecdotal stories of someone in my category who gets the 'rona and ends up in the hospital. It's still evident at this point though that it's not the norm.

Additionally, there's never been a better time for health officials to actually start pounding the podium about the need for people to start taking better care of their own health. 'Rona has ravaged the obese and those who's immune systems are already compromised. For some odd reason, that topic still is nowhere to be seen in the news. It's simply, stay away from everyone and get your shot. Because nothing makes life more enjoyable than perpetual isolation.

I see what you're saying. But I would counter that being vaccinated is about contributing to society developing herd immunity. We need to all get vaccinated (if we can) to protect those who either can't get vaccinated or are more likely to become seriously ill (and possibly die) in spite of being vaccinated.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 27, 2021, 09:17:52 AM
IMO it's time to pull out the stops to get the fence sitters vaccinated. For some it'll take sympathy, for others shaming, and for others leaders they trust telling them to do it. And for those who won't, they need to be kept out of key areas (air travel, military, healthcare, etc.)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: WarDamJagFan on July 27, 2021, 10:01:56 AM
IMO it's time to pull out the stops to get the fence sitters vaccinated. For some it'll take sympathy, for others shaming, and for others leaders they trust telling them to do it. And for those who won't, they need to be kept out of key areas (air travel, military, healthcare, etc.)

I can tell you shaming will only make a lot of folks dig their heels in further. Now for my own sake, my heels aren't dug in. If my wife ever were to come home from Baptist one day and ask me to get the shot, I would and she knows that. It hasn't gotten to that point yet and she's been in the thick of it since this whole thing started.

There's a slippery slope when it comes to mandates as we just witnessed this past year with the shutdowns. I do not trust a government who tells me I can't live my day-to-day unless I take a vaccine from companies who's board members are former government health officials (looking at you Pfizer) and who's product is immune from liability.  It hasn't gotten to that point yet but there seems to be a lot of people advocating for just that. Be careful for the power you wish others to have.

These are simply my own opinions and positions I wanted to bring to the echo chamber of those who clearly have a different point of view.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 27, 2021, 10:56:39 AM
Anyone who flies has to abide by the mask mandate. Anyone joining the military has to get all sorts of other vaccinations. Mandating the COVID vaccine to do either of those things would just be another step for those things. There doesn't need to be much trust, beyond trusting the government's ability to not let you fly or join the military.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: WarDamJagFan on July 27, 2021, 11:06:42 AM
My concern is more of a national mandate vs something more micro like a Military mandate. Granted, if I joined the military now I'd be more worried about being forced to fight in a war we have no business being in than getting a jab.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 27, 2021, 11:25:15 AM
My concern is more of a national mandate vs something more micro like a Military mandate. Granted, if I joined the military now I'd be more worried about being forced to fight in a war we have no business being in than getting a jab.

Makes me wonder what other important vaccinations do you not have... I  also do not trust government officials... in fact one of the previous posters in another thread insinuated that my support for a DeSantis legislation was akin to approval of authoritarianism...

The difference here is the vaccine proven safe and effective. To deny that is to deny reality...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: WarDamJagFan on July 27, 2021, 11:41:16 AM
My concern is more of a national mandate vs something more micro like a Military mandate. Granted, if I joined the military now I'd be more worried about being forced to fight in a war we have no business being in than getting a jab.

Makes me wonder what other important vaccinations do you not have... I  also do not trust government officials... in fact one of the previous posters in another thread insinuated that my support for a DeSantis legislation was akin to approval of authoritarianism...

The difference here is the vaccine proven safe and effective. To deny that is to deny reality...

Well if you must know I've had the flu shot once in the last decade. Along with a shot for TB? Can't remember exactly. And in case there was any doubt, I do not think the Covid vaccines are dangerous. Granted, it did make the wife quite ill after her 2nd round.

But the whole DeSantis thing... sounds similar to a lot of "conversations" had with vaccines and Covid as the topic. It's completely tribal. No actual discussion or discourse is to be had. Simply lob your bombs and be done with it. It's been pleasantly cordial so far on this thread since my original post this morning. Can't say it's been the same in other places.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on July 27, 2021, 11:45:46 AM
sters in another thread insinuated that my support for a DeSantis legislation was akin to approval of authoritarianism...

The difference here is the vaccine proven safe and effective. To deny that is to deny reality...

So far the 3 vaccinations in the US w/ FDA emergency approval over all appear to be relatively safe and effective.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on July 27, 2021, 11:49:21 AM
Quote
Washington (CNN) The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is expected to recommend everyone in K-12 schools wear a mask, regardless of their vaccination status, as it update its masking guidelines on Tuesday, according to an administration health official.

The CDC is also urging vaccinated people in certain areas of the country to resume wearing masks because of Covid-19.

People in areas with high or substantial Covid-19 transmission should resume wearing masks, the CDC is expected to say, according to sources familiar with the announcement. Nearly two-thirds of US counties have high or substantial transmission of Covid-19, according to CDC data; 46% of counties have high transmission and 17% have substantial transmission. CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky is expected to announce the decision at a 3 p.m. ET briefing on Tuesday.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/27/politics/cdc-mask-guidance/index.html
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on July 27, 2021, 11:50:38 AM
I wish you luck because luck will be required as your current health condition is no protection against an airborne virus... additionally... death isn't the only long term outcome after infection. Your unvaccinated status can make you an asymptomatic carrier and one who causes viral mutations...

Society thanks you...


Vaccinating everyone regardless of risk creates the risk for mutations and at that mutations that the vaccinations do not work on. 

It is roughly akin to everyone running around taking antibiotics.   


Nature's a bitch.  She's got her ways.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on July 27, 2021, 11:54:27 AM
I wish you luck because luck will be required as your current health condition is no protection against an airborne virus... additionally... death isn't the only long term outcome after infection. Your unvaccinated status can make you an asymptomatic carrier and one who causes viral mutations...

Society thanks you...


Vaccinating everyone regardless of risk creates the risk for mutations and at that mutations that the vaccinations do not work on. 

It is roughly akin to everyone running around taking antibiotics.   


Nature's a bitch.  She's got her ways.

This is incorrect. Vaccinating half the population is the best way to get a vaccine resistant mutation.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 27, 2021, 12:15:59 PM
I wish you luck because luck will be required as your current health condition is no protection against an airborne virus... additionally... death isn't the only long term outcome after infection. Your unvaccinated status can make you an asymptomatic carrier and one who causes viral mutations...

Society thanks you...


Vaccinating everyone regardless of risk creates the risk for mutations and at that mutations that the vaccinations do not work on. 

It is roughly akin to everyone running around taking antibiotics.   


Nature's a bitch.  She's got her ways.

Please provide your source. You are grossly incorrect...

Nature's a bitch... so is Darwin...  https://darwinawards.com/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 27, 2021, 12:26:39 PM
I wish you luck because luck will be required as your current health condition is no protection against an airborne virus... additionally... death isn't the only long term outcome after infection. Your unvaccinated status can make you an asymptomatic carrier and one who causes viral mutations...

Society thanks you...


Vaccinating everyone regardless of risk creates the risk for mutations and at that mutations that the vaccinations do not work on. 

It is roughly akin to everyone running around taking antibiotics.   


Nature's a bitch.  She's got her ways.

I asked you before to knock it off with the vaccine denialism. Not going to do it again.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 27, 2021, 12:33:59 PM
You have also been asked to provide your sources or proof of you incorrect claims... not once have you done so...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on July 27, 2021, 01:01:12 PM
JFRD assisting Clay County with emergency runs due to Covid.

https://twitter.com/lennycurry/status/1419797568708653066
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 27, 2021, 01:54:29 PM
bl8jaxnative is equating covid vaccine to antibiotics which is sooo wrong.  Most of the problems with antibiotics is using them for problems they weren't ever intended to treat, such as colds, many viruses, etc.  Also, using them as a preventative for livestock, patients not taking the complete regimen, and using expired meds given to them by friends/family.  We can get over this nightmare until most people think about the country as a whole and not listening to the talking heads online and on Fox.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 27, 2021, 02:46:04 PM
Bl8 is spreading false information. Period.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 27, 2021, 05:44:57 PM
Bl8 is spreading false information. Period.
Here is a guy he may get his info from.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/2021/07/27/joseph-mercola-florida-cited-top-covid-19-disinformation-spreader/5375241001/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Ken_FSU on July 28, 2021, 11:45:14 AM
Vaccinating everyone regardless of risk creates the risk for mutations and at that mutations that the vaccinations do not work on. 

It is roughly akin to everyone running around taking antibiotics.   

Good God, this is pure garbage, and hot takes like this are a huge part of why we've found ourselves on the precipice of another disaster.

I've been talking with friends who work in multiple hospitals around the city, and they universally agree that this fourth wave is worse than even the pre-vaccine peak. It's also showing no sign of slowing.

This was all so preventable...

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 28, 2021, 02:29:36 PM
^Well said. And this forum will not be a platform for further misinformation, particularly on this topic.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 28, 2021, 06:52:21 PM
I started this thread 3 weeks ago with predictions of the magnitude of this wave.  And, even then, there were predictions well before that.  That such predictions are coming true now, unfortunately, certainly would validate that the medical community knows of that which they speak.  Why anyone would still question their information and calls for action including masks and vaccines after all this is beyond me.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on July 28, 2021, 11:52:44 PM
Baptist Health is publishing their numbers on Twitter.


COVID-19 Update for July 28, 2021:

- 430 COVID patients in our health system, 87 in ICU
- 13 of these are at @WolfsonChildren, 5 in ICU

We had 61 new COVID patients admitted yesterday, 4 were children. 97% of our current COVID patients over age 12 were NOT vaccinated.

https://twitter.com/BaptistHealthJx/status/1420381180260765696
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on July 29, 2021, 10:20:36 AM
Any person who thought American's would do the "proper" thing and get vaccinated isn't paying attention. Cigarette smoking kills, and has been a huge public health problem for decades. But..............

"Tobacco use is the leading cause of preventable disease, disability, and death in the United States. Nearly 40 million U.S. adults still smoke cigarettes, and about 4.7 million middle and high school students use at least one tobacco product, including e-cigarettes. Every day, about 1,600 U.S. youth younger than 18 years smoke their first cigarette. Each year, nearly half a million Americans die prematurely of smoking or exposure to secondhand smoke. Another 16 million live with a serious illness caused by smoking. Each year, the United States spends more than $225 billion on medical care to treat smoking-related disease in adults."

Can't fix stupid.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: WarDamJagFan on July 29, 2021, 11:52:47 AM
Any person who thought American's would do the "proper" thing and get vaccinated isn't paying attention. Cigarette smoking kills, and has been a huge public health problem for decades. But..............

"Tobacco use is the leading cause of preventable disease, disability, and death in the United States. Nearly 40 million U.S. adults still smoke cigarettes, and about 4.7 million middle and high school students use at least one tobacco product, including e-cigarettes. Every day, about 1,600 U.S. youth younger than 18 years smoke their first cigarette. Each year, nearly half a million Americans die prematurely of smoking or exposure to secondhand smoke. Another 16 million live with a serious illness caused by smoking. Each year, the United States spends more than $225 billion on medical care to treat smoking-related disease in adults."

Can't fix stupid.

You can add Obesity to that list.  Per GWU:

Estimates of the medical cost of adult obesity in the United
States (U.S.) range from $147 billion to nearly $210 billion
per year.
 The majority of the spending is generated from treating
obesity-related diseases such as diabetes and cardiovascular
disease, among others.
 Obesity is responsible for $61.8 billion in Medicare and
Medicaid spending.
o In the absence of obesity, Medicare and Medicaid spending would be 8.5 percent and
11.8 percent lower, respectively.
 If obesity rates continue on their current track, medical costs associated with obesity are
estimated to increase by $48 - $66 billion per year in the U.S., and the loss of economic
productivity could be as high as $580 billion annually by 2030
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on July 29, 2021, 01:29:07 PM
New variant showing up in South Florida.

 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/another-coronavirus-variant-reached-florida-192854583.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/another-coronavirus-variant-reached-florida-192854583.html)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Ken_FSU on July 29, 2021, 02:10:45 PM
New variant showing up in South Florida.

 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/another-coronavirus-variant-reached-florida-192854583.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/another-coronavirus-variant-reached-florida-192854583.html)

At least the photo editor swung for the fences.

I can respect that.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 29, 2021, 02:39:00 PM
Baptist hospitals reach maximum capacity as COVID cases surge in Jacksonville

Quote
A surge in COVID-19 related cases in Jacksonville and beyond has created what Baptist is calling a 'critical' situation.

On Thursday, the hospital tweeted that hospitals are at maximum capacity and our emergency centers have reached a critical point.

"We are asking the community to please do what they can to help," said Baptist in the tweet. "... We are caring for patients with critical emergencies first."

Baptist says if you are experiencing symptoms related to heart attack, stroke, or severe respiratory issues, call 911 or get to an ER ASAP. You will be seen right away.

However, if you are experiencing a non-life-threatening health issue, Baptist says you should contact your Primary Care physician's office, or seek urgent care in person or online via telehealth.

Baptist's Head of Emergency Room Operations tells First Coast News that every “nook and cranny” of the hospitals are being utilized, which includes break rooms, conference rooms and more.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/07/29/baptist-health-hospitals-jacksonville-reach-capacity-covid-surge/5419140001/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Ken_FSU on July 29, 2021, 02:49:14 PM
Baptist hospitals reach maximum capacity as COVID cases surge in Jacksonville

Quote
A surge in COVID-19 related cases in Jacksonville and beyond has created what Baptist is calling a 'critical' situation.

On Thursday, the hospital tweeted that hospitals are at maximum capacity and our emergency centers have reached a critical point.

"We are asking the community to please do what they can to help," said Baptist in the tweet. "... We are caring for patients with critical emergencies first."

Baptist says if you are experiencing symptoms related to heart attack, stroke, or severe respiratory issues, call 911 or get to an ER ASAP. You will be seen right away.

However, if you are experiencing a non-life-threatening health issue, Baptist says you should contact your Primary Care physician's office, or seek urgent care in person or online via telehealth.

Baptist's Head of Emergency Room Operations tells First Coast News that every “nook and cranny” of the hospitals are being utilized, which includes break rooms, conference rooms and more.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/07/29/baptist-health-hospitals-jacksonville-reach-capacity-covid-surge/5419140001/

You have got to be an unfathomably selfish human being to see an article like this, refuse a vaccine, and still galavant around the city unmasked.

Like a total garbage human.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on July 29, 2021, 05:12:04 PM
Before anyone tries to spin it as fake news, Baptist clarified the above article to indicate they are NOT at capacity, but are very busy and ER visitors may experience extended wait times. Although the distinction may be moot in a few days if we continue at this rate.

Quote
https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/breaking-baptist-hospitals-reach-maximum-capacity-as-covid-cases-surge-in-jacksonville/77-4b45250e-c222-4aa7-9041-e688807d56e9

Baptist is apologizing after it erroneously published on social media that hospitals and emergency rooms were at maximum capacity due to the surge in COVID-19 cases here on the First Coast.

The original post on social media about being at maximum capacity was deleted by Baptist.

Hospitals and emergency centers have reached a critical point, however, are not at maximum capacity, a representative for Baptist later clarified on Thursday.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 29, 2021, 05:30:10 PM
Thanks for clarifying!!
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on July 30, 2021, 02:09:26 AM
Baptist hospitals reach maximum capacity as COVID cases surge in Jacksonville

Quote
A surge in COVID-19 related cases in Jacksonville and beyond has created what Baptist is calling a 'critical' situation.

On Thursday, the hospital tweeted that hospitals are at maximum capacity and our emergency centers have reached a critical point.

"We are asking the community to please do what they can to help," said Baptist in the tweet. "... We are caring for patients with critical emergencies first."

Baptist says if you are experiencing symptoms related to heart attack, stroke, or severe respiratory issues, call 911 or get to an ER ASAP. You will be seen right away.

However, if you are experiencing a non-life-threatening health issue, Baptist says you should contact your Primary Care physician's office, or seek urgent care in person or online via telehealth.

Baptist's Head of Emergency Room Operations tells First Coast News that every “nook and cranny” of the hospitals are being utilized, which includes break rooms, conference rooms and more.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/07/29/baptist-health-hospitals-jacksonville-reach-capacity-covid-surge/5419140001/

You have got to be an unfathomably selfish human being to see an article like this, refuse a vaccine, and still galavant around the city unmasked.

Like a total garbage human.

To be fair, you shouldn't be 'galavanting' around the city, masked or unmasked at this point. People need to get vaccinated, stay home/avoid contact with other people as much as possible and wear a mask when they have no choice but to go out.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 30, 2021, 06:36:24 AM
Long lines and wait times for Covid tests... but... no line or wait for vaccines... just freeking unreal...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: fsu813 on July 30, 2021, 07:47:34 AM
Before anyone tries to spin it as fake news, Baptist clarified the above article to indicate they are NOT at capacity, but are very busy and ER visitors may experience extended wait times. Although the distinction may be moot in a few days if we continue at this rate.

Quote
https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/breaking-baptist-hospitals-reach-maximum-capacity-as-covid-cases-surge-in-jacksonville/77-4b45250e-c222-4aa7-9041-e688807d56e9

Baptist is apologizing after it erroneously published on social media that hospitals and emergency rooms were at maximum capacity due to the surge in COVID-19 cases here on the First Coast.

The original post on social media about being at maximum capacity was deleted by Baptist.

Hospitals and emergency centers have reached a critical point, however, are not at maximum capacity, a representative for Baptist later clarified on Thursday.

They are/were at maximum capacity, actually.

They've had to repurpose rooms and areas to fit patients in where they otherwise would never be. Sure, they could continue to do that until the hallways are full too, I guess. "Maximum capacity" infers panic, and that people shouldn't come there even in an accute emergency. That's why the wording was changed.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on July 30, 2021, 09:13:25 AM
Long lines and wait times for Covid tests... but... no line or wait for vaccines... just freeking unreal...

The real deniers won't even get tested. I personally know a handful of people who are convinced they had COVID early on but refused to get tested to confirm because they didn't want the gubmint to know. So they choose to assume they're safe since they had it, even though they dont truly know if they had it. I'm not sure how you can claim immunity from a disease you once believed to be fake, but what do I know?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: WarDamJagFan on July 30, 2021, 10:23:12 AM
I wish you luck because luck will be required as your current health condition is no protection against an airborne virus... additionally... death isn't the only long term outcome after infection. Your unvaccinated status can make you an asymptomatic carrier and one who causes viral mutations...

Society thanks you...


Vaccinating everyone regardless of risk creates the risk for mutations and at that mutations that the vaccinations do not work on. 

It is roughly akin to everyone running around taking antibiotics.   


Nature's a bitch.  She's got her ways.

I asked you before to knock it off with the vaccine denialism. Not going to do it again.

The concept of mass vaccination potentially creating mutations is not denialism nor disinformation.  "Vaccination alone won't stop the rise of new variants and in fact could push the evolution of strains that evade their protection, researchers warned Friday.....By having a situation where you vaccinate everybody, a vaccine-resistant mutant actually gains a selective advantage.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/30/health/vaccination-alone-variants-study/index.html?utm_source=twCNN&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2021-07-30T13%3A00%3A11

"
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Ken_FSU on July 30, 2021, 10:29:43 AM
Baptist hospitals reach maximum capacity as COVID cases surge in Jacksonville

Quote
A surge in COVID-19 related cases in Jacksonville and beyond has created what Baptist is calling a 'critical' situation.

On Thursday, the hospital tweeted that hospitals are at maximum capacity and our emergency centers have reached a critical point.

"We are asking the community to please do what they can to help," said Baptist in the tweet. "... We are caring for patients with critical emergencies first."

Baptist says if you are experiencing symptoms related to heart attack, stroke, or severe respiratory issues, call 911 or get to an ER ASAP. You will be seen right away.

However, if you are experiencing a non-life-threatening health issue, Baptist says you should contact your Primary Care physician's office, or seek urgent care in person or online via telehealth.

Baptist's Head of Emergency Room Operations tells First Coast News that every “nook and cranny” of the hospitals are being utilized, which includes break rooms, conference rooms and more.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/07/29/baptist-health-hospitals-jacksonville-reach-capacity-covid-surge/5419140001/

You have got to be an unfathomably selfish human being to see an article like this, refuse a vaccine, and still galavant around the city unmasked.

Like a total garbage human.

To be fair, you shouldn't be 'galavanting' around the city, masked or unmasked at this point. People need to get vaccinated, stay home/avoid contact with other people as much as possible and wear a mask when they have no choice but to go out.

While I do think we should temporarily reinstate a mask mandate until the situation improves, I disagree with the assertion that the vaccinated should be locking themselves down again and avoiding human contact.

The vaccinated aren't the ones pushing the health system to its limits.

Depending on the hospital, somewhere between 95% and 99% of hospitalizations are amongst the unvaccinated.

The complicating factor is obviously the new data that has emerged showing that vaccinated folks can carry similar viral loads to the infected, potentially asymptomatically spreading the Delta variant to the unvaccinated. But to me, in the same way that it's totally unfair for hospital workers to have to deal with these unvaccinated morons, it's also unreasonable to expect the 50% of Jacksonville's population that has done the responsible thing and gotten vaccinated to put their lives (and potentially businesses) on hold again so said idiots who think the vaccine is going to TuRn TheM gAy don't clog the emergency rooms. If the vaccinated chose to lock down for the good of the medical community, good for them. But it shouldn't be expected.

Probably sounds insensitive, and is totally unenforceable (particularly in Florida), but I'd love to see the hospitals provide a deadline and say, "After XXX date, we will not be accepting unvaccinated covid-19 patients without a documented medical reason for abstaining." Save the beds and the medical resources for those not eligible for vaccination, those with breakthrough cases, and other medical emergencies. Similarly, would love to see businesses, hotels, restaurants, theaters, colleges, sporting events etc. be given the authority to turn away the unvaccinated. Would also love to see a 30-day lockdown ordered for unvaccinated adults.

I don't think the government should have the right forcibly inject anyone, but I also don't think you should be able to have your cake (refuse vaccination) and enjoy it too (enjoy the benefits of a re-opened society and take hospital beds away from others while the pandemic still rages on). These are the people causing all of the undue suffering in the city, and they deserve to have that hardship turned back on them. Actions (and inactions) have consequences, and if you die for not getting vaccinated, that's on you for refusing protection against a widespread deadly disease, not one me for posting up at Starbucks to work with asymptomatic virus in my system.

My opinion changes in a second though if we start to see the virus taking a heavy toll on the immunized or on those ineligible for vaccination.

We live in this amazing time with so much privilege. A deadly pandemic breaks out and shuts down society, and within one year, three different medical teams develop, test, and get approval for a miracle vaccine that will stop covid dead in its tracks. And we live in a city (and a country) where it's readily available, for free, on literally almost every street corner. And all people needed to do was get vaccinated.

One job, Jacksonville.

One job.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on July 30, 2021, 10:36:01 AM
I wish you luck because luck will be required as your current health condition is no protection against an airborne virus... additionally... death isn't the only long term outcome after infection. Your unvaccinated status can make you an asymptomatic carrier and one who causes viral mutations...

Society thanks you...


Vaccinating everyone regardless of risk creates the risk for mutations and at that mutations that the vaccinations do not work on. 

It is roughly akin to everyone running around taking antibiotics.   


Nature's a bitch.  She's got her ways.

I asked you before to knock it off with the vaccine denialism. Not going to do it again.

The concept of mass vaccination potentially creating mutations is not denialism nor disinformation.  "Vaccination alone won't stop the rise of new variants and in fact could push the evolution of strains that evade their protection, researchers warned Friday.....By having a situation where you vaccinate everybody, a vaccine-resistant mutant actually gains a selective advantage.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/30/health/vaccination-alone-variants-study/index.html?utm_source=twCNN&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2021-07-30T13%3A00%3A11

"

It's misleading. Viruses mutate. Vaccines do not "cause" mutation. At worst, the presence of a vaccine may lead to mutations that have adapted to evade that vaccine--but using that as justification that vaccines are bad is akin to saying we should take all of our cops off the street because bad guys are figuring out how to avoid them.

You left off the main point from that article (emphasis mine):

Quote
They said people need to wear masks and take other steps to prevent spread until almost everyone in a population has been vaccinated.

The danger is in partial vaccination. Total vaccination snuffs out the opportunity for mutations because the virus has too few hosts to propagate successfully. It's not about getting sick, or whether you personally live or die--it's about creating a universally inhospitable environment for the virus to live in.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: WarDamJagFan on July 30, 2021, 11:01:59 AM
Baptist hospitals reach maximum capacity as COVID cases surge in Jacksonville

Quote
A surge in COVID-19 related cases in Jacksonville and beyond has created what Baptist is calling a 'critical' situation.

On Thursday, the hospital tweeted that hospitals are at maximum capacity and our emergency centers have reached a critical point.

"We are asking the community to please do what they can to help," said Baptist in the tweet. "... We are caring for patients with critical emergencies first."

Baptist says if you are experiencing symptoms related to heart attack, stroke, or severe respiratory issues, call 911 or get to an ER ASAP. You will be seen right away.

However, if you are experiencing a non-life-threatening health issue, Baptist says you should contact your Primary Care physician's office, or seek urgent care in person or online via telehealth.

Baptist's Head of Emergency Room Operations tells First Coast News that every “nook and cranny” of the hospitals are being utilized, which includes break rooms, conference rooms and more.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/07/29/baptist-health-hospitals-jacksonville-reach-capacity-covid-surge/5419140001/

You have got to be an unfathomably selfish human being to see an article like this, refuse a vaccine, and still galavant around the city unmasked.

Like a total garbage human.

To be fair, you shouldn't be 'galavanting' around the city, masked or unmasked at this point. People need to get vaccinated, stay home/avoid contact with other people as much as possible and wear a mask when they have no choice but to go out.

While I do think we should temporarily reinstate a mask mandate until the situation improves, I disagree with the assertion that the vaccinated should be locking themselves down again and avoiding human contact.

The vaccinated aren't the ones pushing the health system to its limits.

Depending on the hospital, somewhere between 95% and 99% of hospitalizations are amongst the unvaccinated.

The complicating factor is obviously the new data that has emerged showing that vaccinated folks can carry similar viral loads to the infected, potentially asymptomatically spreading the Delta variant to the unvaccinated. But to me, in the same way that it's totally unfair for hospital workers to have to deal with these unvaccinated morons, it's also unreasonable to expect the 50% of Jacksonville's population that has done the responsible thing and gotten vaccinated to put their lives (and potentially businesses) on hold again so said idiots who think the vaccine is going to TuRn TheM gAy don't clog the emergency rooms. If the vaccinated chose to lock down for the good of the medical community, good for them. But it shouldn't be expected.

Probably sounds insensitive, and is totally unenforceable (particularly in Florida), but I'd love to see the hospitals provide a deadline and say, "After XXX date, we will not be accepting unvaccinated covid-19 patients without a documented medical reason for abstaining." Save the beds and the medical resources for those not eligible for vaccination, those with breakthrough cases, and other medical emergencies. Similarly, would love to see businesses, hotels, restaurants, theaters, colleges, sporting events etc. be given the authority to turn away the unvaccinated. Would also love to see a 30-day lockdown ordered for unvaccinated adults.

I don't think the government should have the right forcibly inject anyone, but I also don't think you should be able to have your cake (refuse vaccination) and enjoy it too (enjoy the benefits of a re-opened society and take hospital beds away from others while the pandemic still rages on). These are the people causing all of the undue suffering in the city, and they deserve to have that hardship turned back on them. Actions (and inactions) have consequences, and if you die for not getting vaccinated, that's on you for refusing protection against a widespread deadly disease, not one me for posting up at Starbucks to work with asymptomatic virus in my system.

My opinion changes in a second though if we start to see the virus taking a heavy toll on the immunized or on those ineligible for vaccination.

We live in this amazing time with so much privilege. A deadly pandemic breaks out and shuts down society, and within one year, three different medical teams develop, test, and get approval for a miracle vaccine that will stop covid dead in its tracks. And we live in a city (and a country) where it's readily available, for free, on literally almost every street corner. And all people needed to do was get vaccinated.

One job, Jacksonville.

One job.

With that proposal in mind, should hospitals also deny care for those who don't have health insurance? Hospitals know they most likely won't receive payment on a $50K+ medical bill from someone who is uninsured. Should hospitals also deny care to those who chain smoke cigarettes or eat 8 McDonalds Happy Meals a day? It's the same concept as denying helping someone who's unvaxxed. In all honesty, I don't believe that's a road you want hospitals to go down.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 30, 2021, 11:20:10 AM
I wish you luck because luck will be required as your current health condition is no protection against an airborne virus... additionally... death isn't the only long term outcome after infection. Your unvaccinated status can make you an asymptomatic carrier and one who causes viral mutations...

Society thanks you...


Vaccinating everyone regardless of risk creates the risk for mutations and at that mutations that the vaccinations do not work on. 

It is roughly akin to everyone running around taking antibiotics.   


Nature's a bitch.  She's got her ways.

I asked you before to knock it off with the vaccine denialism. Not going to do it again.

The concept of mass vaccination potentially creating mutations is not denialism nor disinformation.  "Vaccination alone won't stop the rise of new variants and in fact could push the evolution of strains that evade their protection, researchers warned Friday.....By having a situation where you vaccinate everybody, a vaccine-resistant mutant actually gains a selective advantage.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/30/health/vaccination-alone-variants-study/index.html?utm_source=twCNN&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2021-07-30T13%3A00%3A11

"

It's misleading. Viruses mutate. Vaccines do not "cause" mutation. At worst, the presence of a vaccine may lead to mutations that have adapted to evade that vaccine--but using that as justification that vaccines are bad is akin to saying we should take all of our cops off the street because bad guys are figuring out how to avoid them.

You left off the main point from that article (emphasis mine):

Quote
They said people need to wear masks and take other steps to prevent spread until almost everyone in a population has been vaccinated.

The danger is in partial vaccination. Total vaccination snuffs out the opportunity for mutations because the virus has too few hosts to propagate successfully. It's not about getting sick, or whether you personally live or die--it's about creating a universally inhospitable environment for the virus to live in.

^This is what I've gathered from doctors and friends who are experts in this. The polio vaccine basically eradicated polio as a major public health crisis. It continued to mutate, but so many people got the shot that it had too few places to spread to do it. The situation we have here is that COVID has *plenty* of places to spread and continue to mutate. We need to get everyone vaccinated.

And again, this is not a place for anti-vax debate. I don't want to have to start removing posts but I will.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: WarDamJagFan on July 30, 2021, 11:30:43 AM
As I've said before I'm not anti-vaxx. I do get a little perplexed though when the hint of anything negative regarding vaccines - like the article mentioning potential mutations or documented negative side affects some people have experienced with the vaccines - are automatically stamped with an anti-vaxx label and threated with silence.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Ken_FSU on July 30, 2021, 11:44:33 AM
Should hospitals also deny care to those who chain smoke cigarettes or eat 8 McDonalds Happy Meals a day? It's the same concept as denying helping someone who's unvaxxed.

Fair counterpoint to an admittedly unrealistic suggestion, coming from an emotional rather than rational place of deep frustration and disappointment with my fellow man, in a city with a 27.5% positive test rate and a white-hot fourth wave showing no sign of slowing, despite every single adult in the city having the opportunity to walk into Walgreens and come out five minutes later protected from the virus.

(https://snipboard.io/wj9QTD.jpg)

I do wish we could put the squeeze on the unvaccinated population through lockdowns and limited access to public amenities.

When you look at vaccination data from a demographic perspective though, it's clear that - aside from watching loved ones die - education remains the strongest tool in the fight against COVID-19. I probably shouldn't use the word "idiots" so liberally in regards to the unvaccinated when there's such strong socioeconomic correlations between vaccine refusal and lack of education and minority status. It's probably easier to be distrustful of the government when you're already feeling disenfranchised, when there's so much bad information out there, when the governor and CDC are so wishy-washy, and when you might not necessarily have the critical thinking skills to put all the pieces together on your own.

Ultimately, I think the best thing we can do individually is to just keep working on the unvaccinated within our own circles and pounding the data into them as much as we can.

Like this hot education campaign just launched by the Civic Council, seven local health systems, and a rad Downtown Jax advertising agency.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-civic-council-launches-effort-to-boost-vaccination-rates

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on July 30, 2021, 11:47:24 AM
Baptist hospitals reach maximum capacity as COVID cases surge in Jacksonville

Quote
A surge in COVID-19 related cases in Jacksonville and beyond has created what Baptist is calling a 'critical' situation.

On Thursday, the hospital tweeted that hospitals are at maximum capacity and our emergency centers have reached a critical point.

"We are asking the community to please do what they can to help," said Baptist in the tweet. "... We are caring for patients with critical emergencies first."

Baptist says if you are experiencing symptoms related to heart attack, stroke, or severe respiratory issues, call 911 or get to an ER ASAP. You will be seen right away.

However, if you are experiencing a non-life-threatening health issue, Baptist says you should contact your Primary Care physician's office, or seek urgent care in person or online via telehealth.

Baptist's Head of Emergency Room Operations tells First Coast News that every “nook and cranny” of the hospitals are being utilized, which includes break rooms, conference rooms and more.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/07/29/baptist-health-hospitals-jacksonville-reach-capacity-covid-surge/5419140001/

You have got to be an unfathomably selfish human being to see an article like this, refuse a vaccine, and still galavant around the city unmasked.

Like a total garbage human.

To be fair, you shouldn't be 'galavanting' around the city, masked or unmasked at this point. People need to get vaccinated, stay home/avoid contact with other people as much as possible and wear a mask when they have no choice but to go out.

While I do think we should temporarily reinstate a mask mandate until the situation improves, I disagree with the assertion that the vaccinated should be locking themselves down again and avoiding human contact.

The vaccinated aren't the ones pushing the health system to its limits.

Depending on the hospital, somewhere between 95% and 99% of hospitalizations are amongst the unvaccinated.

The complicating factor is obviously the new data that has emerged showing that vaccinated folks can carry similar viral loads to the infected, potentially asymptomatically spreading the Delta variant to the unvaccinated. But to me, in the same way that it's totally unfair for hospital workers to have to deal with these unvaccinated morons, it's also unreasonable to expect the 50% of Jacksonville's population that has done the responsible thing and gotten vaccinated to put their lives (and potentially businesses) on hold again so said idiots who think the vaccine is going to TuRn TheM gAy don't clog the emergency rooms. If the vaccinated chose to lock down for the good of the medical community, good for them. But it shouldn't be expected.

Probably sounds insensitive, and is totally unenforceable (particularly in Florida), but I'd love to see the hospitals provide a deadline and say, "After XXX date, we will not be accepting unvaccinated covid-19 patients without a documented medical reason for abstaining." Save the beds and the medical resources for those not eligible for vaccination, those with breakthrough cases, and other medical emergencies. Similarly, would love to see businesses, hotels, restaurants, theaters, colleges, sporting events etc. be given the authority to turn away the unvaccinated. Would also love to see a 30-day lockdown ordered for unvaccinated adults.

I don't think the government should have the right forcibly inject anyone, but I also don't think you should be able to have your cake (refuse vaccination) and enjoy it too (enjoy the benefits of a re-opened society and take hospital beds away from others while the pandemic still rages on). These are the people causing all of the undue suffering in the city, and they deserve to have that hardship turned back on them. Actions (and inactions) have consequences, and if you die for not getting vaccinated, that's on you for refusing protection against a widespread deadly disease, not one me for posting up at Starbucks to work with asymptomatic virus in my system.

My opinion changes in a second though if we start to see the virus taking a heavy toll on the immunized or on those ineligible for vaccination.

We live in this amazing time with so much privilege. A deadly pandemic breaks out and shuts down society, and within one year, three different medical teams develop, test, and get approval for a miracle vaccine that will stop covid dead in its tracks. And we live in a city (and a country) where it's readily available, for free, on literally almost every street corner. And all people needed to do was get vaccinated.

One job, Jacksonville.

One job.

It's easy to blame the unvaccinated for spreading the virus - but as you said, the CDC has now finally admitted that vaccinated people can still spread the virus. And as they are likely asymptomatic, they have no idea they are doing so. So no one knows who is responsible for the spread - but we can tell who is getting sick from the virus (and most of the serious cases are unvaccinated people). But anyone can spread it - so wear a damn mask if you can't avoid going out.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on July 30, 2021, 12:18:29 PM
As I've said before I'm not anti-vaxx. I do get a little perplexed though when the hint of anything negative regarding vaccines - like the article mentioning potential mutations or documented negative side affects some people have experienced with the vaccines - are automatically stamped with an anti-vaxx label and threated with silence.

Agreed.  I have family members who are terrified to get the vaccine because of a close friend who experienced terrible complications with clotting.  They're highly educated, and two of them are health care workers who have done plenty of research on the vaccine and are  concerned about the mRNA concept in general.  They also each had covid several months ago and theoretically should have antibody protection.  They're also politically diverse.  They don't deserve wanton dismissal as morons and Trump robots who lack critical thinking skills and should be banned from society.

The incredibly incoherent messaging and general lack of humility from public officials (in and during both administrations), sudden shifts in mask rules, and seemingly wanton "essential business" rules that appeared to punish small business and favor large businesses and online retailers all sowed mistrust and (self-defeating) rebellious streaks in plenty of intelligent people.  There's plenty of comically inconsistent situations like malls where the restaurants don't allow sit-down dining but the food court is full of people sitting and eating, or pointlessly theatrical short plexiglas shields that accomplish nothing to stop an aerosol virus going over and around them.  There's a lot of people who aren't virus deniers but think elements of the situation are an effort to divide people and enrich large businesses and big tech companies.  The clumsy censorship from Facebook and Twitter hasn't helped; it hasn't just blocked bad information, it's blocked people who express reasonable concerns and are probably more looking for reassurance than looking to sow discord, and repulsed others.

And frankly, in some venues the sheer volume of messaging is off-putting even when you are pro-vaccine; the family members I'm referring to live in a state where there is a "wear a mask, get the vaccine" poster or billboard about every three paces, to the extent it comes off as Orwellian rather than as a PSA.

I really think these sorts of things, not ignorance, are driving a lot of the resistance to the vaccine.  And we should be having an open, national conversation that affirms and addresses legitimate concerns to try to diminish that resistance, not treating people like morons or censoring them.  Sadly, apparently that's now climactically impossible, and the messaging has been so bad that the damage may be irreversible.

I'm not in any way opposed to the vaccine, but a little compassion and understanding toward those who aren't vaccinated would go a long way, as opposed to browbeating and calling them names (including the equation of being opposed to a new type of vaccine, which some find scary, as being "anti-vaxx," i.e., opposed to all vaccines).  No one ever won someone to their point of view by incessantly calling them an idiot.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: fieldafm on July 30, 2021, 12:45:38 PM
As I've said before I'm not anti-vaxx. I do get a little perplexed though when the hint of anything negative regarding vaccines - like the article mentioning potential mutations or documented negative side affects some people have experienced with the vaccines - are automatically stamped with an anti-vaxx label and threated with silence.

Agreed.  I have family members who are terrified to get the vaccine because of a close friend who experienced terrible complications with clotting.  They're highly educated, and two of them are health care workers who have done plenty of research on the vaccine and are  concerned about the mRNA concept in general.  They also each had covid several months ago and theoretically should have antibody protection.  They're also politically diverse.  They don't deserve wanton dismissal as morons and Trump robots who lack critical thinking skills and should be banned from society.

The incredibly incoherent messaging and general lack of humility from public officials (in and during both administrations), sudden shifts in mask rules, and seemingly wanton "essential business" rules that appeared to punish small business and favor large businesses and online retailers all sowed mistrust and (self-defeating) rebellious streaks in plenty of intelligent people.  There's plenty of comically inconsistent situations like malls where the restaurants don't allow sit-down dining but the food court is full of people sitting and eating, or pointlessly theatrical short plexiglas shields that accomplish nothing to stop an aerosol virus going over and around them.  There's a lot of people who aren't virus deniers but think elements of the situation are an effort to divide people and enrich large businesses and big tech companies.  The clumsy censorship from Facebook and Twitter hasn't helped; it hasn't just blocked bad information, it's blocked people who express reasonable concerns and are probably more looking for reassurance than looking to sow discord, and repulsed others.

And frankly, in some venues the sheer volume of messaging is off-putting even when you are pro-vaccine; the family members I'm referring to live in a state where there is a "wear a mask, get the vaccine" poster or billboard about every three paces, to the extent it comes off as Orwellian rather than as a PSA.

I really think these sorts of things, not ignorance, are driving a lot of the resistance to the vaccine.  And we should be having an open, national conversation that affirms and addresses legitimate concerns to try to diminish that resistance, not treating people like morons or censoring them.  Sadly, apparently that's now climactically impossible, and the messaging has been so bad that the damage may be irreversible.

I'm not in any way opposed to the vaccine, but a little compassion and understanding toward those who aren't vaccinated would go a long way, as opposed to browbeating and calling them names (including the equation of being opposed to a new type of vaccine, which some find scary, as being "anti-vaxx," i.e., opposed to all vaccines).  No one ever won someone to their point of view by incessantly calling them an idiot.

Thank you. 100% agree!
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on July 30, 2021, 12:49:48 PM
P.S. no offense whatsoever intended to WarDamJagFan with my comment about the anti-vaxx phrase.  I'm just surprised at how that phrase's meaning has transmogrified recently.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on July 30, 2021, 01:02:01 PM
As I've said before I'm not anti-vaxx. I do get a little perplexed though when the hint of anything negative regarding vaccines - like the article mentioning potential mutations or documented negative side affects some people have experienced with the vaccines - are automatically stamped with an anti-vaxx label and threated with silence.

Agreed.  I have family members who are terrified to get the vaccine because of a close friend who experienced terrible complications with clotting.  They're highly educated, and two of them are health care workers who have done plenty of research on the vaccine and are  concerned about the mRNA concept in general.  They also each had covid several months ago and theoretically should have antibody protection.  They're also politically diverse.  They don't deserve wanton dismissal as morons and Trump robots who lack critical thinking skills and should be banned from society.

The incredibly incoherent messaging and general lack of humility from public officials (in and during both administrations), sudden shifts in mask rules, and seemingly wanton "essential business" rules that appeared to punish small business and favor large businesses and online retailers all sowed mistrust and (self-defeating) rebellious streaks in plenty of intelligent people.  There's plenty of comically inconsistent situations like malls where the restaurants don't allow sit-down dining but the food court is full of people sitting and eating, or pointlessly theatrical short plexiglas shields that accomplish nothing to stop an aerosol virus going over and around them.  There's a lot of people who aren't virus deniers but think elements of the situation are an effort to divide people and enrich large businesses and big tech companies.  The clumsy censorship from Facebook and Twitter hasn't helped; it hasn't just blocked bad information, it's blocked people who express reasonable concerns and are probably more looking for reassurance than looking to sow discord, and repulsed others.

And frankly, in some venues the sheer volume of messaging is off-putting even when you are pro-vaccine; the family members I'm referring to live in a state where there is a "wear a mask, get the vaccine" poster or billboard about every three paces, to the extent it comes off as Orwellian rather than as a PSA.

I really think these sorts of things, not ignorance, are driving a lot of the resistance to the vaccine.  And we should be having an open, national conversation that affirms and addresses legitimate concerns to try to diminish that resistance, not treating people like morons or censoring them.  Sadly, apparently that's now climactically impossible, and the messaging has been so bad that the damage may be irreversible.

I'm not in any way opposed to the vaccine, but a little compassion and understanding toward those who aren't vaccinated would go a long way, as opposed to browbeating and calling them names (including the equation of being opposed to a new type of vaccine, which some find scary, as being "anti-vaxx," i.e., opposed to all vaccines).  No one ever won someone to their point of view by incessantly calling them an idiot.

For some people, sympathy and explanation will work. But there are a lot of politicians and figures out there, especially right wingers and the traditional anti-vaxxers (who are not all right wingers), who are out there purposefully sewing misinformation. No amount of compassion and understanding is going to fight that.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on July 30, 2021, 01:09:25 PM
^ I hear you, but I'm talking about talking human being to human being, not to politicians or to Jenny McCarthy.  Too often the animus intended toward some of the figures you're describing is being directed toward normal people with reasonable fears or skepticism, and that's causing them to draw lines in the sand about this vaccine.

The toxicity of society has been bad enough lately without a virus that causes us all to look at each other as potential disease vectors rather than people.  It just hardens everybody.  So can interacting electronically rather than in person, of course.

Too much of the public AND private message to the vaccine-hesitant has boiled down to "Listen to us; we're better than you.  Idiot."  And that needs to change if we're going to make real progress.

Thankful that this venue is always one of respectful disagreement and reasoned discourse!
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Ken_FSU on July 30, 2021, 01:35:45 PM
No one ever won someone to their point of view by incessantly calling them an idiot.

Good call out. You're right, Wacca.

I mentioned it in a previous post, but this is a really valid point that I'm personally guilty of more than I should be on this topic.

It's an emotional topic that I feel really strongly about - having seen loved ones die and too many friends hospitalized from this virus - but ultimately name calling does do more harm than good and has a way of undermining even the soundest of arguments.

It's a slippery slope too. Starts with a casual name call. Then you split a few topics in half for dissenting opinions. Next thing you know, you're getting booted from coffee shops for contesting the refill policy and distributing press releases about your 800,000th message board post.

Obviously, there's a difference on the idiot scale between a medical professional nervous about still-emerging mRNA technology or someone reluctant to get vaccinated because of family history of blood clots versus the guy who thinks the government is trying to trojan horse a microchip into his bloodstream so he can manipulate him via 5G or the woman who posts things on Facebook like, "Johnson and Johnson can't even get sunscreen right, and they want us to take their vaccine?!?"

I've got my own opinions on how heavily the scale is weighed in one direction, but in general, generalizations suck.

Thanks for the check.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on July 30, 2021, 01:37:28 PM
^ Ken, you're a good, thoughtful man, and understand emotions running high on the subject for sure.  And for what it's worth, always enjoy your posts on many topics on this forum.  No intent to put you down, now or ever.  (Or to defend the more paranoid cases of resistance that you're describing.  I know what you mean, and that's why I hang out here for quality online conversation.)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Ken_FSU on July 30, 2021, 02:24:57 PM
^ Ken, you're a good, thoughtful man, and understand emotions running high on the subject for sure.  And for what it's worth, always enjoy your posts on many topics on this forum.  No intent to put you down, now or ever.  (Or to defend the more paranoid cases of resistance that you're describing.  I know what you mean, and that's why I hang out here for quality online conversation.)

Right back at ya, buddy!

Zero offense taken!

There's too much counterproductive name calling and blanket generalization in the world as is.

We're better than that   ;D

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 30, 2021, 05:34:19 PM
Points noted regarding vaccine concerns, valid or not.  What I share with the unvaccinated I talk to is that nothing is risk free.  We all walk or drive even though every day people are killed driving or walking.  It comes down to probabilities.  Over 4 billion vaccines have been administered.  A very tiny percent have an adverse reaction of any consequence.  Compare that to the many times higher probability of much more serious consequences of COVID 19.  On this basis, you would "place your bet" every time on the vaccines.

One exception would be a very few who may have a known medical condition that would possibly change the probabilities.  But, those same people, too, could be much more at risk with COVID than the vaccine.

There are never any guarantees in life.  It really comes down to assessing risks and selecting the least risky option.

As to ever changing messaging, we are trying to hit a moving target.  Further, this is a new "species" for scientists and health professionals, so, to some degree, they are "learning as they go."  At this point, you also have a game changing variant that is much more aggressive than prior ones so it makes total sense to ramp things up again.

No doubt many may have stories about vaccine reactions.  But they pale in comparison to the stories about COVID.  I don't many people. regardless of their position on vaccines, that don't know one or more people that have died from COVID.  I don't know anyone who has a like story about vaccines.  Some people having chills, fever or cramps, usually after the second shot, seems to be the most typical vaccine symptoms I hear about.  But they report them being gone between 12 hours and 4 days.  None have gone to a hospital.  Not nearly the same story with most COVID patients.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on July 30, 2021, 08:00:16 PM
Points noted regarding vaccine concerns, valid or not.  What I share with the unvaccinated I talk to is that nothing is risk free.  We all walk or drive even though every day people are killed driving or walking.  It comes down to probabilities.  Over 4 billion vaccines have been administered.  A very tiny percent have an adverse reaction of any consequence.  Compare that to the many times higher probability of much more serious consequences of COVID 19.  On this basis, you would "place your bet" every time on the vaccines.

One exception would be a very few who may have a known medical condition that would possibly change the probabilities.  But, those same people, too, could be much more at risk with COVID than the vaccine.

There are never any guarantees in life.  It really comes down to assessing risks and selecting the least risky option.

As to ever changing messaging, we are trying to hit a moving target.  Further, this is a new "species" for scientists and health professionals, so, to some degree, they are "learning as they go."  At this point, you also have a game changing variant that is much more aggressive than prior ones so it makes total sense to ramp things up again.

No doubt many may have stories about vaccine reactions.  But they pale in comparison to the stories about COVID.  I don't many people. regardless of their position on vaccines, that don't know one or more people that have died from COVID.  I don't know anyone who has a like story about vaccines.  Some people having chills, fever or cramps, usually after the second shot, seems to be the most typical vaccine symptoms I hear about.  But they report them being gone between 12 hours and 4 days.  None have gone to a hospital.  Not nearly the same story with most COVID patients.
So true jlt.  My daughter is always giving me the, "I have a friend who knows someone who had a bad reaction".  I can guarantee the percentage of people who have actually had bad reactions to the vaccine is nowhere near the number of people who have gotten sick, died, transmitted the virus to others, lost work time, and have clogged our healthcare system.  I may sound callous, but to Hell with those offended by being called antivaxers.  That's what you are if you let a few cases of bloodclots, fever, and sickness keep you from getting us over this pandemic.  I bet there are more bad reactions to facelifts, root canals, boob jobs than there is to the Covid vaccine.  Over 160 million Americans have done their part.    How many of those got bloodclots?  How many died?  Total rubbish! Getting the vaccine is nowhere near the danger of you driving from Mandarin to Orange Park on the Buckman bridge.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on July 31, 2021, 08:44:23 AM
My mother in law, a hard core conservative Repub, had a bad reaction, sick for a whole day. But she is alive, and ready for travel. She is urging everyone to get the damn vaccine.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on July 31, 2021, 03:50:01 PM

Anyone having multiple chronic conditions + diseases should be getting the vaccine.  Has nothing to do w/politics.

Delta is putting perfectly healthy people in the hospital. I know this thread has been very frustrating for you but you need to update your advice based on changing conditions.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 31, 2021, 03:55:07 PM
Unfortunately, we did it!  The greater Jacksonville area and Nassau county are now #1 in the nation in the following COVID metrics, sadly. 
Clearly, a correlation between vaccination rates and cases proving the vaccines make a difference.

Meanwhile, we have a governor who is in total denial regarding the current outbreak adding to the hesitancy many have for getting the vaccine and, thus, exacerbating the problem further.

Quote
....The greater Jacksonville area, which led the state and nation in per capita spread last week, also saw its largest-ever one-week increase, reaching 8,308 new cases. Nassau County -- which led the CDC’s list for the highest level of community transition in metro counties in America last week -- added 810 new cases, which is a rate of 908.6 cases per 100,000 population -- up sharply from last week.....

....The state’s rate of coronavirus tests coming back positive continued rising, reaching 18.1%. Jacksonville’s positivity rate was 26.9% and Bradford, Clay, Flagler, Nassau, Putnam and Union counties are even higher.....

....On a per-capita basis, Florida now has more people hospitalized than any other state....

....The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and local leaders continue to stress that vaccinations are the key to pulling out of the pandemic. Currently, more than 11.7 million Floridians have had at least one dose, or 61% of residents 12 and older.

Locally, 52% in Duval County have had at least one dose of the vaccine. At 65%, St. Johns County is the only local community that exceeds the state average for vaccinations. Nassau is at 54%, Jacksonville is at 52%, Clay is at 45%, while Baker, Bradford, Columbia and Putnam counties are at 40% or below.....

https://www.news4jax.com/news/florida/2021/07/30/florida-jacksonville-show-biggest-one-week-jump-in-covid-19-cases-ever/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 31, 2021, 04:17:25 PM
The governor is not in total denial... what... specifically... would you have him do?  Mandatory masks?  Mandatory vaccination?  Close the bars and restaurants?  C'mon JLT... specifics...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 31, 2021, 04:34:36 PM
The governor is not in total denial... what... specifically... would you have him do?  Mandatory masks?  Mandatory vaccination?  Close the bars and restaurants?  C'mon JLT... specifics...

I say "denial" because, not only will he not consider various mandates, but he won't let local governments, agencies, school boards or the private or institutional sector impose their own mandates because he doesn't see a problem that's worthy of it.  He rails against "big government" telling everyone else what to do but I guess it doesn't apply if it is something he favors. 

In one example, he is fighting the Feds/CDC over their regulations for the cruise industry in court while that same industry actually welcomes some of the CDC-type guidelines like mandating vaccinations for their passengers and crew.  But, DeSantis has prohibited that thus negating his "support" for the industry.  Norwegian Cruise Lines is actually suing the State over it.

Likewise, prohibiting local schools and governments from mandating in their communities based on their local situation is denying that the problem could be much worse for some than others.  He has also refused to release daily updates on COVID because he has said its not meaningful indicating, again, a denial of its seriousness and the need for the public to know just how bad it is.

Check out some of his quotes this past week at a political event in Utah too.  He is mimicking Trump and sounding like COVID is all behind us.  He may endorse vaccines but he is talking out of both sides of his mouth and trying to have his cake and eat it to.  That sows confusion and distrust, is harmful and has contributed, greatly, to the low vaccination rates in this state.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 31, 2021, 05:13:22 PM
Fair enough... sounds like you would welcome a more authoritarian response... hmmm why just the other day... in another thread...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 31, 2021, 05:33:01 PM
Fair enough... sounds like you would welcome a more authoritarian response... hmmm why just the other day... in another thread...

Nothing I put in my response was "authoritarian" other than what DeSantis himself has done.  I call it "authoritarian" when he decides what others can and cannot do.  If you are going to complain about "authoritarian" at least be even handed about it  8).

By the way, I do believe there is a place for mandates when it comes to the very essence of the greater society's health and welfare.  Just go back to WW II or the 1970's energy crises or out-of-control inflation to see examples of such "mandates" including some by Republicans.  They are not new and are certainly called for in times of extremes.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on July 31, 2021, 05:55:22 PM
Fair enough... sounds like you would welcome a more authoritarian response... hmmm why just the other day... in another thread...


By the way, I do believe there is a place for mandates when it comes to the very essence of the greater society's health and welfare.  Just go back to WW II or the 1970's energy crises or out-of-control inflation to see examples of such "mandates" including some by Republicans.  They are not new and are certainly called for in times of extremes.

THANK YOU !!!

During WW2, these items (and I'm sure many others) were rationed, meaning the government decided how much of each item you could buy: Sugar, Flour, Coffee, Gasoline, Kerosene (not used much today but was then), Firewood, tobacco, just to name a few. Also, wages were frozen and so were prices on pretty much everything. Air raids required you to turn off your lights at night if you lived in the affected area.

These measures were all emergency in nature, temporary, and lifted after the need passed. Had they not been done, we might very well be typing on this forum in German right now. It's a damn good thing Facebook and FOX news weren't around at the time. The citizenry did what was necessary to support the war effort and pretty much without complaint.       
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on July 31, 2021, 06:31:50 PM
Not against mandates per se… just seems in other threads where actual legislation is passed you accuse desantis of being authoritarian… I guess sometimes “when it suits you “. Authoritarian is ok.

No problemo bro…
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Ken_FSU on July 31, 2021, 07:46:09 PM
https://www.news4jax.com/news/national/2021/07/31/florida-breaks-record-with-more-than-21000-new-covid-cases/

Good God.

If last week seemed rough, we are entering some uncharted territory here going into next week and the start of the school year.

A 30-year old former coworker of mine died this morning from covid, a week after his Dad passed from it.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Ken_FSU on July 31, 2021, 07:51:29 PM
P.S. Tempered with some good news:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/31/us/us-vaccination-rates-rising-southern-states/index.html
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 31, 2021, 10:13:04 PM
Not against mandates per se… just seems in other threads where actual legislation is passed you accuse desantis of being authoritarian… I guess sometimes “when it suits you “. Authoritarian is ok.

No problemo bro…

Not sure I used the word authoritarian.  I did compare his efforts to manipulate college classroom teachings and intimidate protestors with efforts by Nazi propagandist and information manipulator Goebbels in one post but that isn't exactly the same as saying he is authoritarian.  Although now that you mention it, I think DeSantis is working hard lately to deserve being called that for the sum total of his recent behavior.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on July 31, 2021, 10:21:41 PM
Below is today's evidence that DeSantis is in denial.  Ironic that he is now blaming the summer heat when his buddy Trump and friends said last year that summer heat would "kill" the virus and end COVID.  This adds also to the evidence that DeSantis is an information manipulator a la Trump and Goebbels and that he is exhibiting the "bad kind" of authoritarian traits.

Quote
The state has become the new national epicenter for the virus, accounting for around a fifth of all new cases in the U.S. as the highly contagious delta variant of the coronavirus continues to spread.

Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has resisted mandatory mask mandates and vaccine requirements, and along with the state Legislature, has limited local officials’ ability to impose restrictions meant to stop the spread of COVID-19. DeSantis on Friday barred school districts from requiring students to wear masks when classes resume next month....

....DeSantis has blamed the surge on a seasonal increase — more Floridians are indoors because of the hot weather with air conditioning circulating the virus. About 60% of Floridians 12 and older are vaccinated, ranking it about midway among the states.

https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-health-business-arts-and-entertainment-florida-01fa89e1d9491ab075c5deb689af1ea8
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on July 31, 2021, 10:44:38 PM
Take responsibilty or get out of the way. DeSantis is pathetic.  Like Trump, always an excuse, never accepting the results (or lack) of his leadership.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 01, 2021, 12:32:15 AM
No one ever said the vaccines would prevent breakthrough cases fully, even before the arrival of the much more aggressive Delta variant.  That said, they are proving very effective at minimizing severe cases leading to hospitalizations and death per the CDC numbers below:

Quote
Less than 0.004% of people fully vaccinated against Covid-19 experienced a breakthrough case resulting in hospitalization and less than 0.001% died from the disease, according to the latest data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The data highlights what leading health experts across the country have highlighted for months: Covid-19 vaccines are very effective at preventing serious illness and death from Covid-19 and are the country's best shot at slowing the pandemic down and avoiding further suffering.


The CDC reported 6,587 Covid-19 breakthrough cases as of July 26, including 6,239 hospitalizations and 1,263 deaths.

At that time, more than 163 million people in the United States were fully vaccinated against Covid-19.

Most of the breakthrough cases -- about 74% -- occurred among adults 65 or older.

Since May, the CDC has focused on investigating only hospitalized or fatal Covid-19 cases among people who have been fully vaccinated. The agency says the data relies on "passive and voluntary reporting" and are a "snapshot" to "help identify patterns and look for signals among vaccine breakthrough cases."....

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/31/health/fully-vaccinated-people-breakthrough-hospitalization-death/index.html
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 01, 2021, 03:34:47 AM
Not against mandates per se… just seems in other threads where actual legislation is passed you accuse desantis of being authoritarian… I guess sometimes “when it suits you “. Authoritarian is ok.

No problemo bro…

Not sure I used the word authoritarian.  I did compare his efforts to manipulate college classroom teachings and intimidate protestors with efforts by Nazi propagandist and information manipulator Goebbels in one post but that isn't exactly the same as saying he is authoritarian.  Although now that you mention it, I think DeSantis is working hard lately to deserve being called that for the sum total of his recent behavior.

I am the one who said I didn't understand why people had such a hard-on for authoritarianism. I wasn't referring to BT in particular - my post was actually motivated by a comment from another poster (JaxNole or something like that?) where it seemed he was making every effort to bend over backwards and give DeSantis the benefit of the doubt. It's easy to claim to "not trust government" but making excuses for legislation that is written in such a way that it can easily be abused to silence dissent is pretty decent indicator that you're probably not as "libertarian" as you think you are.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 01, 2021, 07:34:04 AM
Take responsibilty or get out of the way. DeSantis is pathetic.  Like Trump, always an excuse, never accepting the results (or lack) of his leadership.



Yeah... if the man had any balls he would have canceled Green Day, closed Disney and other theme parks, closed bars and restaurants etc... lead or get out of the way...lol
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 01, 2021, 07:49:40 AM
Apparently, when some people drive they either keep it in Park or go 120 MPH, as they appear to have no concept that there are choices in between the extremes.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 01, 2021, 08:06:57 AM
Apparently, when some people drive they either keep it in Park or go 120 MPH, as they appear to have no concept that there are choices in between the extremes.

MM seems to be endorsing extremes... I'm simply following his lead.  The interesting thing is some complaining about the governor encroaching upon civil liberties in some circumstances while calling for increased encroachment of others... I  guess we all do it but at least recognize...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 01, 2021, 09:20:02 AM
DeSantis talks out of both sides of his yap. He is slowly realizing he is on the wrong side of reality and is waffling. He won't govern on the one side, and prohibits local government to do so on the other.  As with Trump, he is positioning himself to shed blame when lockdowns and shutdowns occur.  What is disturbing is that we have a large segment of our population who find this OK.  Science should trump politics.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 01, 2021, 09:41:10 AM
Sooo... he is a politician??  Thanks!
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 01, 2021, 10:34:30 AM
DeSantis talks out of both sides of his yap. He is slowly realizing he is on the wrong side of reality and is waffling. He won't govern on the one side, and prohibits local government to do so on the other.  As with Trump, he is positioning himself to shed blame when lockdowns and shutdowns occur.  What is disturbing is that we have a large segment of our population who find this OK.  Science should trump politics.

This seems pretty on-point, and is far more likely to be DeSantis' motivation for most of his decisions than some insidiously intentional racist plot (as was implied about his anti-riot bill--which I agreed was bad policy) or a Goebbels-and -Nazis comparison  (where any inference has to conjure thoughts of the holocaust, contextually). It's certainly not a desirable trait, and as we're seeing with COVID, that mindset of calloused political calculation has real consequences. But pointing out that some of the accusations being levied are a bit dramatic and that more reasonable, likely explanations exist shouldn't be misconstrued as bending over backwards to defend anyone. It also doesn't mean those more reasonable explanations justify his policy.

As it pertains to DeSantis' response to COVID, a national public health crisis is probably one of the few legitimate justifications for the government to infringe on freedoms we otherwise have.  If anything, agreeing to that is what would make me "not as libertarian as I think I am". The hypocrisy of banning vaccine passports in the name of freedom is simply ridiculous.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 01, 2021, 10:47:20 AM
DeSantis talks out of both sides of his yap. He is slowly realizing he is on the wrong side of reality and is waffling. He won't govern on the one side, and prohibits local government to do so on the other.  As with Trump, he is positioning himself to shed blame when lockdowns and shutdowns occur.  What is disturbing is that we have a large segment of our population who find this OK.  Science should trump politics.

This seems pretty on-point, and is far more likely to be DeSantis' motivation for most of his decisions than some insidiously intentional racist plot (as was implied about his anti-riot bill--which I agreed was bad policy) or a Goebbels-and -Nazis comparison  (where any inference has to conjure thoughts of the holocaust, contextually). It's certainly not a desirable trait, and as we're seeing with COVID, that mindset of calloused political calculation has real consequences. But pointing out that some of the accusations being levied are a bit dramatic and that more reasonable, likely explanations exist shouldn't be misconstrued as bending over backwards to defend anyone. It also doesn't mean those more reasonable explanations justify his policy.

As it pertains to DeSantis' response to COVID, a national public health crisis is probably one of the few legitimate justifications for the government to infringe on freedoms we otherwise have.  If anything, agreeing to that is what would make me "not as libertarian as I think I am". The hypocrisy of banning vaccine passports in the name of freedom is simply ridiculous.
As in, "solutions are not the answer".
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on August 01, 2021, 10:59:39 AM
https://www.axios.com/florida-records-most-new-covid-cases-0a9d2dad-420f-4374-8b55-b970fb5f0873.html (https://www.axios.com/florida-records-most-new-covid-cases-0a9d2dad-420f-4374-8b55-b970fb5f0873.html)

Florida reported 21,683 new COVID-19 cases — the most in the state in a single day since the pandemic began, Axios reports.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 01, 2021, 11:12:49 AM
"Yeah... if the man had any balls he would have canceled Green Day, closed Disney and other theme parks, closed bars and restaurants etc... lead or get out of the way...lol"

If the response to this pandemic had been exclusively led by Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis we'd probably have 5 million dead and counting. 

I think everyone forgets how pathetically sad DJT (and by acclimation, his buddy DeSantis)  response was, but if you need a reminder here it is:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trump-comments/timeline-in-his-own-words-trump-and-the-coronavirus-idUSKBN26N0U5

Trump and his presidency were the greatest national disaster to ever befall this country. And here we are over a year and half later, and guys like DeSantis are still taking their cues from him. That's why we are the world epicenter of this shit. All of the thoughtful, rational, and science based responses came from out side of the Oval Office. And a lot of it was shamed by folks like Trump and DeSantis.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 01, 2021, 12:02:07 PM
Just a few examples of attitudes a few months ago...  NYC locked and closed EVERYTHING and DeSantis was originally pilloried by mainstream news... he held the line and Florida came out ahead of those other states... none of you would ever vote for the man anyway so no huge surprise or loss that you suddenly disapprove now...

So far, I have changed my opinion on DeSantis.  I think he is doing fine. 

IMO DeSantis is doing pretty well. We're a very populous state and a lot of factors are at play, on top of how much this situation has evolved in just a few months. Yes, the state should have moved with more urgency, but there are a lot of tough decisions here no one ever wants to have to make. Overall, I think he's risen to it.

Looks at these jackasses.  SJC beached closed now.

https://mobile.twitter.com/travisakers/status/1243990179557359616

Ridiculous. This is one area DeSantis really needs to step it up and quit leaving decisions to local governments.

I'm pretty effing certain I can figure out on my own what businesses are "essential" and which ones are  not.

This is the scariest part of this BS.  Hope YOUR business is not on the list.....   Boy Jeff Bezos (and the NRA) gotta be loving this.

Taking a poll: a liquor store IS or IS NOT essential?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: JeffreyS on August 01, 2021, 06:52:21 PM
 No suddenly with my disapproval. I can understand wanting businesses to be able to operate but not going with the state wide mask mandate is unforgivable.  The simplest and easiest way to mitigate the loss of life and he blocks it. He disparages those who promote vaccines and advise caution. He tries to spin it as personal choice but you can’t drill a hole under just your seat on the boat.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on August 01, 2021, 07:07:17 PM
Lol, "suddenly?" Those comments are from March and April 2020 when the pandemic took hold in the US. At that time DeSantis was implementing shutdowns and local governments were requiring mask and social distancing mandates. He was listening to the CDC. Now, DeSantis pretends he never shut anything down, sells anti-Fauci merchandise, and has stripped the powers of local governments who are the reason Florida didn't have a worse disaster before Nobody turned on him "suddenly," he shat the bed, and now we're all paying for it.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 01, 2021, 07:31:59 PM
BT,  Because I agreed with DeSantis once, when he stepped-up and actually did something sensible, does not mean I can't disagree with him now.  Don't you think your research and post is a bit of a waste of time?  Are you sure you haven't ever changed your mind on any changing situation?  I agreed with DeSantis because he changed his mind from opposing measures recommended by the healthcare experts to taking their advice.  Simple as that.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 01, 2021, 07:43:55 PM
No one... not one of you... want to go back to the full on quarantine again.   Get vaccinated... wear a mask and social distance...  You really need Ron DeSantis to tell you that?  Gimme a break. We all know what to do... the ones who dont believe it or refuse to comply will not regardless of a toothless mandate... even during the mandatory masking people who refused simply did their business regardless... you gonna arrest people??  Give me mandates with real consequences and I'm onboard... otherwise... utterly meaningless.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: JeffreyS on August 01, 2021, 07:58:29 PM
I will agree it has to be an enforceable mandate.  Who was as it that didn’t allow enforcement of mask
Mandates in the state again? Why you carry the water for him I don’t understand. Reminds me of when Bernie Sanders pointed out that under the Cuban government people were literate so what that government sucks.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 01, 2021, 08:36:23 PM
I will agree it has to be an enforceable mandate.  Who was as it that didn’t allow enforcement of mask
Mandates in the state again? Why you carry the water for him I don’t understand. Reminds me of when Bernie Sanders pointed out that under the Cuban government people were literate so what that government sucks.

MY point... was that even when there was a mandate... it is unenforceable and probably unconstitutional...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 01, 2021, 08:38:28 PM
No one... not one of you... want to go back to the full on quarantine again.   Get vaccinated... wear a mask and social distance...  You really need Ron DeSantis to tell you that?  Gimme a break. We all know what to do... the ones who dont believe it or refuse to comply will not regardless of a toothless mandate... even during the mandatory masking people who refused simply did their business regardless... you gonna arrest people??  Give me mandates with real consequences and I'm onboard... otherwise... utterly meaningless.
I don't want to go back on quarantine.  I don't want businesses closed, schools shut down.  That is why I want mandatory vaccinations.  Mandatory facemasks.  Is it that difficult for you to understand what people are trying to tell you?  Had we gone the mandatory route, we wouldn't be going through this all over again.  I don't like a lot of taxes, but they are mandatory.  If you go the route DeSantis is going, we will have perpetual pandemics.  I'm tired of it.  You are never going to get 70% of the population to agree with anything.  Not even on this forum.  The antivaxers and feet draggers are going against what is good for the country.  Have Covid passports, require all healthcare providers vaccinated, do whatever to get folks to do what is required.  Want to enter a bar? Show your passport. Want to shop, enter a work place indoors, visit a doctor, be a member of the military, renew your driver's license, show your proof of vaccination.  GET THE VACCINE!
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 01, 2021, 08:48:34 PM
I will agree it has to be an enforceable mandate.  Who was as it that didn’t allow enforcement of mask
Mandates in the state again? Why you carry the water for him I don’t understand. Reminds me of when Bernie Sanders pointed out that under the Cuban government people were literate so what that government sucks.

MY point... was that even when there was a mandate... it is unenforceable and probably unconstitutional...

BT, I am beginning to think the real purpose of your posts is to live up to the "troll" segment in your name.  I not sure I believe that you believe much of what you post because you seem smarter than those posts would otherwise indicate.  I hope you can fess up to just pulling our chains for your pleasure, not because you think DeSantis is some kind of saint re: COVID in Florida.  8)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 01, 2021, 09:11:50 PM
Nope... not a troll. Name one governor requiring vaccination... not even the president can require vaccination except the armed forces... do you people seriously want to arrest people for not wearing masks??  Arrest for not vaccinating???  The Publix manager is going to have people arrested? The bartender fined because a patron took off the mask?

Wow.... c'mon folks chill. We are all frustrated with the situation but what you seem to be suggesting is simply outrageous
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 01, 2021, 09:29:56 PM
BT is forever the critic.  He trolls the threads looking for something to snipe.  It goes on and on.  If you say white, he says why or black.  You really have a problem.  I think it's called Dunning-Kruger effect.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 02, 2021, 05:30:00 AM
No one... not one of you... want to go back to the full on quarantine again.   Get vaccinated... wear a mask and social distance...  You really need Ron DeSantis to tell you that?  Gimme a break. We all know what to do... the ones who dont believe it or refuse to comply will not regardless of a toothless mandate... even during the mandatory masking people who refused simply did their business regardless... you gonna arrest people??  Give me mandates with real consequences and I'm onboard... otherwise... utterly meaningless.

Okay, so I am not in FL, but I would be happy with a full lockdown where I live.

Anyway, the problem with your position, BT, is that getting vaccinated, wearing a mask and social distancing makes very little difference if the majority aren't doing it. It's like climate change - you can do your part by driving less, but it's not going to make a difference without mass action (and the major polluters changing their behaviours). And such action usually requires government intervention.

I'm not saying there should or shouldn't be mandatory vaccinations or masks or whatever. I think it's a complicated issue and I honestly am not completely certain of my position on it. But I think your approach is basically inaction.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 02, 2021, 06:21:31 AM
BT is forever the critic.  He trolls the threads looking for something to snipe.  It goes on and on.  If you say white, he says why or black.  You really have a problem.  I think it's called Dunning-Kruger effect.
Well... I  am your critic... and I  often disagree with many of the left of center posters...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 02, 2021, 06:34:49 AM
No one... not one of you... want to go back to the full on quarantine again.   Get vaccinated... wear a mask and social distance...  You really need Ron DeSantis to tell you that?  Gimme a break. We all know what to do... the ones who dont believe it or refuse to comply will not regardless of a toothless mandate... even during the mandatory masking people who refused simply did their business regardless... you gonna arrest people??  Give me mandates with real consequences and I'm onboard... otherwise... utterly meaningless.

Okay, so I am not in FL, but I would be happy with a full lockdown where I live.

Anyway, the problem with your position, BT, is that getting vaccinated, wearing a mask and social distancing makes very little difference if the majority aren't doing it. It's like climate change - you can do your part by driving less, but it's not going to make a difference without mass action (and the major polluters changing their behaviours). And such action usually requires government intervention.

I'm not saying there should or shouldn't be mandatory vaccinations or masks or whatever. I think it's a complicated issue and I honestly am not completely certain of my position on it. But I think your approach is basically inaction.
I think you misunderstand my position... I  favor and am vaccinated,  masked and distanced. My wife and I  have reluctantly re imposed our self quarantine. I would comply with mandates... I  just don't think they will happen.  Name a country outside of red China that forces vaccination. We saw the economic and social effects of full lockdown and many still have not recovered.  You ALL witnessed mask mandates at super markets, stores, bars, ignored and unforced or worse... attempts to enforce results in violence.

Blaming the governor for this current outbreak is simply frustration with your fellow citizens directed at an easy target...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on August 02, 2021, 07:14:04 AM

Quote
Blaming the governor for this current outbreak is simply frustration with your fellow citizens directed at an easy target...

Gimme a break, man. There a many, many things he could have done differently that would have helped the situation. He is pandering to the far right base at the cost of lives and the economy. Why don't you just admit the obvious, that he is a big part of the problem? 


FL sets a new record for Covid hospitalizations, higher now than any time since the pandemic began.

https://apnews.com/article/business-health-florida-coronavirus-pandemic-7ca97f0d685ab25559cf9b51cfc077eb (https://apnews.com/article/business-health-florida-coronavirus-pandemic-7ca97f0d685ab25559cf9b51cfc077eb)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 02, 2021, 07:18:34 AM
No one... not one of you... want to go back to the full on quarantine again.   Get vaccinated... wear a mask and social distance...  You really need Ron DeSantis to tell you that?  Gimme a break. We all know what to do... the ones who dont believe it or refuse to comply will not regardless of a toothless mandate... even during the mandatory masking people who refused simply did their business regardless... you gonna arrest people??  Give me mandates with real consequences and I'm onboard... otherwise... utterly meaningless.

Okay, so I am not in FL, but I would be happy with a full lockdown where I live.

Anyway, the problem with your position, BT, is that getting vaccinated, wearing a mask and social distancing makes very little difference if the majority aren't doing it. It's like climate change - you can do your part by driving less, but it's not going to make a difference without mass action (and the major polluters changing their behaviours). And such action usually requires government intervention.

I'm not saying there should or shouldn't be mandatory vaccinations or masks or whatever. I think it's a complicated issue and I honestly am not completely certain of my position on it. But I think your approach is basically inaction.
I think you misunderstand my position... I  favor and am vaccinated,  masked and distanced. My wife and I  have reluctantly re imposed our self quarantine. I would comply with mandates... I  just don't think they will happen.  Name a country outside of red China that forces vaccination. We saw the economic and social effects of full lockdown and many still have not recovered.  You ALL witnessed mask mandates at super markets, stores, bars, ignored and unforced or worse... attempts to enforce results in violence.

Blaming the governor for this current outbreak is simply frustration with your fellow citizens directed at an easy target...

If I read the complaints correctly, it seems people are upset that the Governor isn't mandating masks or setting restrictions. And I know it was a while ago, but I seem to recall the Governor moving to open businesses up and return to business as usual in the midst of one of the waves of the pandemic.

I personally don't think you can mandate vaccines and I am more than a bit uncomfortable with that idea. I do think the government has to show leadership and come up with a plan to address the issue with people not getting vaccinated (not sure what FL has done in this respect). This can be anything from advertising/PR campaigns to incentives to 'vaccination passports', etc (or some combination of those).

What FL is going to struggle with is the idea of closing non-essential businesses down, as the Federal government has done very little to help business and individuals. I wouldn't want people to not be able to eat, etc because their job is closed and they have no source of income.

I do think that mask mandates for all businesses as well as strict rules around the operation of businesses should be in place - things like limiting the numbers into grocery stores, enforcing outdoor dining, etc.

Again, not sure if FL has done these sorts of things - but it seems to me that coming up with a comprehensive plan and executing it is better than inaction. This is a public health emergency and steps must be taken. And it really needn't be political.

My issue with your comments were not that I thought you were opposed to vaccines, etc but rather that you were taking the 'personal responsibility' angle. Which is great in theory, but not really enough in reality. We can't expect anyone other than ourselves to take personal responsibility - but when people don't do the responsible things, there are negative externalities. It's easy to say, "If you don't get vaccinated, it's your problem if you end up dying". The problem with that is that people spreading this virus - whether it is unvaccinated people or vaccinated people who think they can go about business as usual - are helping to keep the virus thriving and mutating. And we all suffer the consequences of that.

TL;DR - I didn't get the impression that you were opposed to that stuff. I just think expecting people to do the right thing on their own is wishful thinking.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 02, 2021, 07:22:35 AM
I don't blame the governor for the outbreak.  I blame him for prolonging it.  He is stirring-up favor from his base and worsening an already terrible situation, just to be a right wing hero.  If you want help with a health related problem, listen to the CDC, Surgeon General, WHO, NIH, overwhelming majority of medical doctors.  DeSantis gets his cues from Tucker Carlson and DJT.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 02, 2021, 07:56:47 AM

Quote
Blaming the governor for this current outbreak is simply frustration with your fellow citizens directed at an easy target...

Gimme a break, man. There a many, many things he could have done differently that would have helped the situation. He is pandering to the far right base at the cost of lives and the economy. Why don't you just admit the obvious, that he is a big part of the problem? 


FL sets a new record for Covid hospitalizations, higher now than any time since the pandemic began.

https://apnews.com/article/business-health-florida-coronavirus-pandemic-7ca97f0d685ab25559cf9b51cfc077eb (https://apnews.com/article/business-health-florida-coronavirus-pandemic-7ca97f0d685ab25559cf9b51cfc077eb)

Well I'm glad that is your only objection...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on August 02, 2021, 08:56:50 AM
 “In a dramatic shift from last month, more Americans now say the coronavirus situation in the U.S. is getting worse (45%) rather than better (40%). In June, a record 89% said the situation was getting better, while only 3% said it was getting worse.”

https://news.gallup.com/poll/353003/americans-optimism-covid-dashed-cases-surge.aspx (https://news.gallup.com/poll/353003/americans-optimism-covid-dashed-cases-surge.aspx)

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 02, 2021, 06:36:00 PM
As DJT might say, "If you stop asking people it will get better."
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on August 03, 2021, 08:11:14 AM

For a couple generations, without good evidence, the CDC claimed salt was dangerous.

They may have smart people.  But as an org, they have made simple mistakes that a good, science - not political - org wouldn't make.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 03, 2021, 08:48:00 AM

For a couple generations, without good evidence, the CDC claimed salt was dangerous.

They may have smart people.  But as an org, they have made simple mistakes that a good, science - not political - org wouldn't make.

Salt is dangerous - at least in excess - as it is linked to a variety of health problems.

And a "not political org" - the American Heart Association - agrees:

https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/sodium/sodium-and-salt
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on August 03, 2021, 09:05:03 AM

For a couple generations, without good evidence, the CDC claimed salt was dangerous.

They may have smart people.  But as an org, they have made simple mistakes that a good, science - not political - org wouldn't make.

I'm sure the Facebook School of Medicine has a much better track record.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on August 03, 2021, 09:24:56 AM
Amid recent surging coronavirus cases in Florida, a top Republican National Committee official in the state has spread anti-vaccine rhetoric and misinformation, comparing the Biden administration’s vaccine efforts to Nazi-era “brown shirts,” and twice calling the vaccines “the mark of the beast,” comparable to a “false god.”

A review by CNN’s KFile found that Peter Feaman, a lawyer and RNC committeeman from Florida made the comments on his blog the “The Backhoe Chronicles,” which he publishes regularly in a private group on MeWe. The social media platform bills itself as the “anti-Facebook” app.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/02/politics/kfile-rnc-peter-feaman-covid-19-vaccine/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_allpolitics+%28RSS%3A+CNN+-+Politics%29 (https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/02/politics/kfile-rnc-peter-feaman-covid-19-vaccine/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_allpolitics+%28RSS%3A+CNN+-+Politics%29)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 03, 2021, 12:25:35 PM
Florida #1 in COVID cases and Jacksonville #1 in Florida.  The national publicity the City and State are getting over this is not good.  If DeSantis thinks he is helping the State's economy by ignoring mask and vaccine mandates he is wrong.  I know of several people who have cancelled flights to here that were booked into the fall over what they are seeing.  I am sure they are not alone.

DeSantis has now successfully earned his desired reputation as a Trump clone.  In so doing, he is, as one mayor described it, leading his minions "over a cliff."  It reminds me of Jim Jones giving Kool-Aid to his flock.  Like Jones, Trump and DeSantis are asking their "cult" members to commit, effectively, suicidal behaviors, and, ironically, likewise, they are diminishing their own flocks.

Quote
"Jacksonville right now is really the epicenter of the pandemic here across Florida," Marc Lotter, Senior Vice President of Marketing, Communications and Education for the Florida Hospital Association, said. "There's no area harder hit than Jacksonville."

....According to Lotter, some hospitals in Jacksonville are double their previous peak right now.....

....Lotter also talked about Florida breaking the record for the most cases of COVID in a single day this past weekend.

“When we had the previous peak, it took us 60 days to go from 2,000 cases statewide to more than 10,000," Lotter explained. "We've gone from 2,000 cases at the beginning of July, to now well over 10,000 cases here at the beginning of August. So, what happened in two months last year has happened in less than one month this year."....

....FCN also asked the city how it plans to address the surge at hospitals. The mayor's office responded with the following statement:

"Mayor Curry and his administration continue to work with hospital leaders as we navigate through this surge. According to these medical facilities, nearly 98% of those being treated for COVID-19 in our area hospitals did not receive the vaccine. The COVID-19 vaccine continues to be our greatest tool in battling this virus. If you are eligible to receive this vaccine, we strongly encourage you to do so.”....

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/florida-hospital-association-official-calls-jacksonville-epicenter-of-pandemic-in-florida/77-39d9d0c6-4a41-41cf-9be0-a32de4927801
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 03, 2021, 07:16:34 PM
BridgeTroll, see today's sample quotes from DeSantis below and tell me he (1) isn't in denial (2) isn't fanning the desires of the unvaccinated to not get vaccinated and (3) isn't outright lying.  All this as hospitals are at capacity, turning away patients and begging poeple to get vaccinated and wear masks.  His behavior is now totally indefensible! And, despicable!

Quote
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis defended unvaccinated people who were getting sick from COVID-19, saying the media was being "judgmental."

"When somebody contracts a highly transmissible airborne virus, they're viewed as having done something wrong," he said. "And that's just not the way you do it when people come in, you treat them. Are you going to sit there and criticize, or are we going to try to treat, and try to help the folks? Nobody's trying to get ill here," the report said.

DeSantis railed against the press during the briefing, WESH reported, and accused journalists of fearmongering about the pandemic that has claimed over 600,000 American lives.

DeSantis said Florida's hospitals were "open for business" as he spoke to the press on Tuesday.

"Even in places that have more, COVID patients represent a fraction of the overall hospital beds and I don't want to see a repeat, that people with heart problems don't go in [to hospitals],"
he said, WESH reported. "With all due respect, I find that deplorable to blame a victim who ends up being hospitalized. You don't know their story. You don't know what happened."

https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-gov-desantis-unvaccinated-people-testing-positive-for-covid-2021-8?amp
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 03, 2021, 07:31:44 PM
Yeah the problem is it's a one way conversation. No questions. No answers. He's a piece of  _________.

Talk about government overreach...  what a joke :

https://www.fox13news.com/news/desantis-threatens-to-withhold-funding-from-school-districts-who-mandate-masks

Am I the only person tired of the Trump base dictating public health policy? The same folks (Trump) who ignored it from the beginning?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 04, 2021, 06:16:51 AM
I am not thrilled with his decision and stand regarding school children. They cannot get the vaccine and remote classrooms are no longer an option.  At least let local school boards the option to require masks. These types of mandates are at least enforceable.   
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on August 04, 2021, 08:59:17 AM

Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R-AR) says he regrets signing law banning local mask mandates, as COVID cases quickly rise in his state.

“In hindsight, I wish that had not become law,” said Hutchinson, who has asked lawmakers to allow school districts to adopt mask mandates.


https://twitter.com/KenTremendous/status/1422899014496919554?s=20 (https://twitter.com/KenTremendous/status/1422899014496919554?s=20)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 04, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I predict that DeSantis will soften his iron fist shortly.  A poll out the last few days shows Charlie Crist has a slight lead in polling.  The rules DeSantis has rolled-out are purely political, so when the polls shows he's losing ground he will change his tune.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 04, 2021, 10:23:20 AM
I guess the good news is that he isn't Andrew Cuomo...lol
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 04, 2021, 11:15:20 AM
I guess the good news is that he isn't Andrew Cuomo...lol

Sexual harassment is inexcusable and Cuomo needs to suffer the consequences.  But taking actions that lead to more death and extreme misery is a far worse offense and, likewise, DeSantis should suffer proportional consequences.  Impeachment would be a good starting point.

I can't imagine being a parent to a school aged child and being worried about COVID in the schools.  Not only that my child might get it and suffer lifetime and/or severe consequences, but that they might bring it home and infect the rest of the family.  I would seriously have to consider keeping my child at home without a mask mandate which, itself, has negative consequences.  DeSantis is putting parents in a precarious position.  I am surprised he would take the added political risk of losing most every parent in the state's support.  There is nothing more risky, politically, than messing with children's welfare.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 04, 2021, 11:37:11 AM
More DeSantis BS...........................

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ron-desantis-ice-cream-coronavirus_n_610a1f9ae4b064678eeed1ff

Remember how Repubs  shut down Major League Baseball, ruined Coke and Nike with THEIR cancel culture?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 04, 2021, 12:54:42 PM
Unfortunately the national media focus on DeSantis is simply a redirection from the train wrecks of Newsome and Cuomo in California and New York... Impeachment and recalls... is DeSantis next?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 04, 2021, 01:01:14 PM
Florida Constitution does not provide for the recall of the Governor. And, absent Desantis abandoning Trump and endorsing Biden and AOC, I don't see the Very Red Legislature impeaching him.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 04, 2021, 02:02:34 PM
Unfortunately the national media focus on DeSantis is simply a redirection from the train wrecks of Newsome and Cuomo in California and New York... Impeachment and recalls... is DeSantis next?

Coverage of DeSantis *might* also be linked to the fact that FL is the worst performing state COVID-wise at the moment...

But I guess conspiracy theories are more fun.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on August 04, 2021, 02:18:07 PM
Unfortunately the national media focus on DeSantis is simply a redirection from the train wrecks of Newsome and Cuomo in California and New York... Impeachment and recalls... is DeSantis next?

Coverage of DeSantis *might* also be linked to the fact that FL is the worst performing state COVID-wise at the moment...

But I guess conspiracy theories are more fun.

+100
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 04, 2021, 02:26:40 PM
Unfortunately the national media focus on DeSantis is simply a redirection from the train wrecks of Newsome and Cuomo in California and New York... Impeachment and recalls... is DeSantis next?

Coverage of DeSantis *might* also be linked to the fact that FL is the worst performing state COVID-wise at the moment...

But I guess conspiracy theories are more fun.

+100

I mean, it's not like the news isn't covering Newsome and Cuomo. It's totally possible to cover more than two stories, you know?

And then there's this:

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/10/25/us/coronavirus-us-cases-promo-1601396060818/coronavirus-us-cases-promo-1601396060818-videoSixteenByNineJumbo1600-v1179.png)

and this:

(https://www.orlandosentinel.com/resizer/eTjSqBIXEhCU94Rl3Mk-_-9KL70=/415x238/top/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/tronc/ZZOSYK4KONHILGQWAZYRAQAHNM.jpg)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 04, 2021, 03:40:53 PM
^Check out Nebraska, absolutely killing it. Is that infograph per-capita? You could almost retitle that whole thing, "Vaccines work!"

DeSantis' response to COVID last fall was at least debatable, given Florida's middle-of-the-road COVID statistics. His current response, given the circumstances we now face, is atrocious. I thought the following NYT article was very interesting and raises the specter that a lot more luck and/or unknowns about the virus may be influencing the duration, location, spread, and severity of our various outbreaks. Maybe Florida has just been lucky up until now. Maybe even with strict measures in place, Florida would still have ended up going through a surge this summer (like Michigan did earlier this year). But once you are in a surge, steps to mitigate it have to be taken, and DeSantis is not only failing to do so, but is preventing others from doing so.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/briefing/coronavirus-delta-mysteries.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/briefing/coronavirus-delta-mysteries.html)

Florida should be able to funnel vaccine mandates and mask mandates down through most anything that receives direct state funding or is state-run. Fail to comply? Lose your funding for as long as you remain out of compliance or, for essential state services, be required to follow other transmission mitigation steps in lieu of vaccination.  Let court challenges on constitutionality address any issues there. Beyond that, unshackle private entities and allow them to protect themselves and their customers as they see fit (hard to believe we have to ask for that from a supposed Republican). 

The alternatives are widespread death or returning to lockdowns. Neither of these allow more freedom than the above.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 04, 2021, 03:54:04 PM
Unfortunately the national media focus on DeSantis is simply a redirection from the train wrecks of Newsome and Cuomo in California and New York... Impeachment and recalls... is DeSantis next?

Coverage of DeSantis *might* also be linked to the fact that FL is the worst performing state COVID-wise at the moment...

But I guess conspiracy theories are more fun.

+100

Lol… what conspiracy?  They are train wrecks…
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 04, 2021, 03:58:09 PM
I’m still waiting for Biden’s mask mandates and vaccination mandates for the general public… double standards?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 04, 2021, 04:04:49 PM
I’m still waiting for Biden’s mask mandates and vaccination mandates for the general public… double standards?

I think it's entirely fair to call out the difference between "not issuing mandates" and "not issuing mandates, while preempting everybody under you from issuing mandates." Biden's lack of mandates doesn't prevent DeSantis from doing the right thing, but DeSantis is preventing local governments from doing anything.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: acme54321 on August 04, 2021, 04:07:18 PM
Yeah I've been OK with what most of what DeSantis does but this stuff preventing local governments from doing stuff is a bit wonky.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 04, 2021, 04:26:07 PM
Yeah I've been OK with what most of what DeSantis does but this stuff preventing local governments from doing stuff is a bit wonky.

I agree. I would like a better explanation for these decisions other than the silly trump copy cat bs.

  I actually would like to see us using those fancy vaccination cards we got for our jabs. Show your card to get on an airplane or public transportation. Show your card for discount medical insurance or services. Show your card and get half off your dinner or bar tab. Show your card and get discounts on groceries.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 04, 2021, 04:30:03 PM
Yeah I've been OK with what most of what DeSantis does but this stuff preventing local governments from doing stuff is a bit wonky.

I agree. I would like a better explanation for these decisions other than the silly trump copy cat bs.

  I actually would like to see us using those fancy vaccination cards we got for our jabs. Show your card to get on an airplane or public transportation. Show your card for discount medical insurance or services. Show your card and get half off your dinner or bar tab. Show your card and get discounts on groceries.

Isn't this enough?  ;D
https://krispykreme.com/promos/vaccineoffer (https://krispykreme.com/promos/vaccineoffer)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 04, 2021, 04:32:09 PM
Anybody remember the landslide margin of victory DeSantis enjoyed?  Newsome is polling better now than the margin DeSantis won by.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 04, 2021, 04:41:23 PM
Yeah I've been OK with what most of what DeSantis does but this stuff preventing local governments from doing stuff is a bit wonky.

I agree. I would like a better explanation for these decisions other than the silly trump copy cat bs.

  I actually would like to see us using those fancy vaccination cards we got for our jabs. Show your card to get on an airplane or public transportation. Show your card for discount medical insurance or services. Show your card and get half off your dinner or bar tab. Show your card and get discounts on groceries.

Isn't this enough?  ;D
https://krispykreme.com/promos/vaccineoffer (https://krispykreme.com/promos/vaccineoffer)


Wouldn't the Krispy Kreme (or any other) discount based on Showing Proof of Vaccination violate the law prohibiting "vaccine passports"? 
Is a discount a "service" of a business?
Quote
“(1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business operations in this state.” Fla. Stat. § 381.00316
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on August 04, 2021, 06:03:10 PM
I’m still waiting for Biden’s mask mandates and vaccination mandates for the general public… double standards?

Unlike the Governor of a state, he has no such powers. Not to mention the fact that the problem is far worse in FL than the vast majority of states.   
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 04, 2021, 07:00:52 PM
I’m still waiting for Biden’s mask mandates and vaccination mandates for the general public… double standards?

Unlike the Governor of a state, he has no such powers. Not to mention the fact that the problem is far worse in FL than the vast majority of states.

I don't mean this critically, but he certainly has some power. Enough federal funding goes to schools and other programs that he could exercise some coercive power to achieve policy goals. I'm glad he isn't, as it really should fall to governors, but he was veep to Mr. I've Got A Pen And A Phone. The option to test the limits of his power is there if he wanted to pursue a more top-down response.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: JeffreyS on August 04, 2021, 08:57:43 PM
I’m still waiting for Biden’s mask mandates and vaccination mandates for the general public… double standards?
A bit of a stretch Biden hasn’t blocked mask mandates and prevented businesses from checking the vaccine status of those using the businesses space or services.
I do think Biden could be criticized for not being more aggressive.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 04, 2021, 09:26:52 PM
I’m still waiting for Biden’s mask mandates and vaccination mandates for the general public… double standards?

Unlike the Governor of a state, he has no such powers. Not to mention the fact that the problem is far worse in FL than the vast majority of states.   
of course the president can mandate... there are plenty of political reasons he hasn't... hmmmm... why ?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 04, 2021, 10:18:10 PM
Looks like Curry is tying his wagon to DeSantis and Trump.  I guess he hasn't heard yet that the Delta variant is good at breaking through vaccines and is also transmittable by those vaccinated thus requiring everyone to continue wearing masks for now.  Another "denier."

Quote
Conversely, Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry spoke out against a mandate on Twitter.

"No mandates. Educate," Curry wrote. "Get the vaccine, please. It works."

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/education/2021/08/03/jacksonville-area-schools-require-masks-opt-out-clause/5477059001/

A 21 gun salute to the Duval County School Board for standing up to DeSantis and creatively creating a non-mandate mandate for masks in our schools.

Quote
The Duval County School Board voted late Tuesday night to make face masks required among students unless parents or guardians opt-out with appropriate paperwork.

Adding the layer of paperwork for families who want their students to opt-out of mask wearing marks an attempted workaround to the governor's executive order.

"Any student not wearing a mask pursuant to this policy must, through his/her/their parent or guardian, complete the opt out procedures provided by his/her/their assigned school," the official language says.

I believe that the State constitution has a requirement that governs uniform support for all students in the state.  If so, I wonder if DeSantis's threat would hold up in court.  The below is from Article IX, Section 1 of the State constitution, for starters:

Quote
SECTION 1. Public education.—
(a) The education of children is a fundamental value of the people of the State of Florida. It is, therefore, a paramount duty of the state to make adequate provision for the education of all children residing within its borders. Adequate provision shall be made by law for a uniform, efficient, safe, secure, and high quality system of free public schools that allows students to obtain a high quality education and for the establishment, maintenance, and operation of institutions of higher learning and other public education programs that the needs of the people may require.

Further referenced in the Florida Statutes, Title XLVIII, 1000.01:

Quote
(4) UNIFORM SYSTEM OF PUBLIC K-12 SCHOOLS INCLUDED.—As required by s. 1, Art. IX of the State Constitution, the Florida K-20 education system shall include the uniform system of free public K-12 schools. These public K-12 schools shall provide 13 consecutive years of instruction, beginning with kindergarten, and shall also provide such instruction for students with disabilities, gifted students, limited English proficient students, and students in Department of Juvenile Justice programs as may be required by law. The funds for support and maintenance of the uniform system of free public K-12 schools shall be derived from state, district, federal, and other lawful sources or combinations of sources, including any fees charged nonresidents as provided by law.

To add, it looks like my citation above may be correct based on the quote below:

Quote
....Callan says while DeSantis is sending a strong message on masks, his views are not binding and his order is not likely to withstand a court challenge.

"The executive order itself does not do anything that carries legal consequences," said Briffault.

"The (executive order) is actually pretty toothless in that all of the sections of law he invokes do not deprive the Department of Health of its power as the ultimate decision maker regarding measures necessary to inhibit the spread of communicable diseases as outlined in Section 1003.22(3) of Florida Statutes."

"It is highly unlikely that the courts would permit the state to withhold funding from school districts which insist on masking children as a necessary health measure particularly when the CDC recommends masking," Callan said.

Callan says opponents of the measure are likely to cite that under Article IX of the Florida Constitution, the state has a duty to educate all children.

"Cutting off funding to districts which choose to require masking to prevent the spread of Covid-19, a potentially deadly communicable disease, would violate the states 'paramount duty' to educate all children, not just the unmasked," Callan said.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/08/04/us/florida-school-mask-mandate-law/index.html
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 04, 2021, 10:44:17 PM
From Mark Woods column, an example of how the unvaccinated ARE IMPACTING the health of the vaccinated.  It was pointed out they managed to get the surgery but others are not so lucky.:

Quote
Pat and Howard Leventhal will celebrate their 55th wedding anniversary Saturday.

This supposedly is the emerald anniversary. But Mrs. Leventhal doesn’t want any green gems. She just wants her husband to have his scheduled surgery for colon cancer Friday and begin a path to some more anniversaries.

“That will be the best present ever," she said.

Last Friday they were worried they wouldn’t even make it to the surgery part. When Howard went for pre-admission lab work, they were told that with hospital beds rapidly filling up with COVID-19 patients, his surgery had to be canceled.

Pat Leventhal describes this as “the closest I’ve ever felt to being punched in the gut.”....

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/mark-woods/2021/08/04/covid-wave-has-become-tsunami-florida-hospitals-health-workers/5456579001/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 05, 2021, 02:10:50 AM
Unfortunately the national media focus on DeSantis is simply a redirection from the train wrecks of Newsome and Cuomo in California and New York... Impeachment and recalls... is DeSantis next?

Coverage of DeSantis *might* also be linked to the fact that FL is the worst performing state COVID-wise at the moment...

But I guess conspiracy theories are more fun.

+100

Lol… what conspiracy?  They are train wrecks…

They are total train wrecks. But so is DeSantis. As I read your post, it seemed you were saying that the media is focusing on DeSantis instead of Newsome and Cuomo, which clearly isn't the case. I could have misread what you meant, though.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 05, 2021, 06:08:57 AM
From Mark Woods column, an example of how the unvaccinated ARE IMPACTING the health of the vaccinated.  It was pointed out they managed to get the surgery but others are not so lucky.:

Quote
Pat and Howard Leventhal will celebrate their 55th wedding anniversary Saturday.

This supposedly is the emerald anniversary. But Mrs. Leventhal doesn’t want any green gems. She just wants her husband to have his scheduled surgery for colon cancer Friday and begin a path to some more anniversaries.

“That will be the best present ever," she said.

Last Friday they were worried they wouldn’t even make it to the surgery part. When Howard went for pre-admission lab work, they were told that with hospital beds rapidly filling up with COVID-19 patients, his surgery had to be canceled.

Pat Leventhal describes this as “the closest I’ve ever felt to being punched in the gut.”....

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/mark-woods/2021/08/04/covid-wave-has-become-tsunami-florida-hospitals-health-workers/5456579001/

I just had shoulder surgery two days ago( torn rotator cuff and labrum).  It was out patient and done at a surgery center so beds not an issue...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 05, 2021, 06:13:54 AM
I’m still waiting for Biden’s mask mandates and vaccination mandates for the general public… double standards?
A bit of a stretch Biden hasn’t blocked mask mandates and prevented businesses from checking the vaccine status of those using the businesses space or services.
I do think Biden could be criticized for not being more aggressive.
He could also be criticized for the waves of unvaccinated crossing the southern border... he has an entire arsenal of onerous restrictions he could put in place... but won't.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on August 05, 2021, 02:15:33 PM
I’m still waiting for Biden’s mask mandates and vaccination mandates for the general public… double standards?

Unlike the Governor of a state, he has no such powers. Not to mention the fact that the problem is far worse in FL than the vast majority of states.

I don't mean this critically, but he certainly has some power. Enough federal funding goes to schools and other programs that he could exercise some coercive power to achieve policy goals. I'm glad he isn't, as it really should fall to governors, but he was veep to Mr. I've Got A Pen And A Phone. The option to test the limits of his power is there if he wanted to pursue a more top-down response.
I’m still waiting for Biden’s mask mandates and vaccination mandates for the general public… double standards?

Unlike the Governor of a state, he has no such powers. Not to mention the fact that the problem is far worse in FL than the vast majority of states.   
of course the president can mandate... there are plenty of political reasons he hasn't... hmmmm... why ?

The President does NOT have the power to enact mask mandates or vaccine mandates. Not sure where you get the idea that he does. As far as cutting off unrelated funding for other things, that would be legally dubious at best, and subject to stays from the court. Obviously there would be no shortage of entities that would do so.   
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on August 05, 2021, 02:28:00 PM
I’m still waiting for Biden’s mask mandates and vaccination mandates for the general public… double standards?
A bit of a stretch Biden hasn’t blocked mask mandates and prevented businesses from checking the vaccine status of those using the businesses space or services.
I do think Biden could be criticized for not being more aggressive.
He could also be criticized for the waves of unvaccinated crossing the southern border... he has an entire arsenal of onerous restrictions he could put in place... but won't.

What 'wave of unvaccinated' are you speaking of? That is a debunked RW talking point straight from FOX News. Illegal immigrants are the go-to scapegoat for the GOP on any issue.

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/07/scicheck-viral-claim-gets-bidens-covid-19-travel-and-immigration-policies-wrong/ (https://www.factcheck.org/2021/07/scicheck-viral-claim-gets-bidens-covid-19-travel-and-immigration-policies-wrong/)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/28/no-real-problem-with-coronavirus-surge-is-not-border/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/28/no-real-problem-with-coronavirus-surge-is-not-border/)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 05, 2021, 04:27:14 PM
Does the Wall street journal count as right wing talking points?  Probably yes in your world but...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/border-covid-illegal-undocumented-immigration-testing-biden-harris-11628023571
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 05, 2021, 05:15:05 PM
The President does NOT have the power to enact mask mandates or vaccine mandates. Not sure where you get the idea that he does. As far as cutting off unrelated funding for other things, that would be legally dubious at best, and subject to stays from the court. Obviously there would be no shortage of entities that would do so.

Playing devil's advocate, as I do not endorse executive overreach, but since this is a discussion board...

As far as an actual nationwide mask mandate goes, the odds may be against success, but they aren't zero. People were calling on Trump to issue one in 2020. The Congressional Research Service found the president's authority (via the CDC) to issue such a mandate essentially debatable in scope, but acknowledged some authority exists. The CDC went with a public transit mandate.

Federal funding--the granting and/or withholding thereof--is a time-tested policy tool to coerce certain outcomes. There are huge sums of COVID aid dollars yet to be disbursed. Both Obama and Trump (as well as presidents preceding them) penned many executive orders of questionable constitutionality that, because of our judicial system's precedent of showing deference to executive agency interpretation of statute, survived for a long time in practice before being struck down. Many more remain in force today. Biden signed an EO in April requiring the minimum wage paid at private contractors winning any government contracts to be at least $15 for any work related to the contract. There's leverage there to piecemeal requirements out to various entities.

We have a history (an unfortunate one, IMHO) of expansive, unilateral presidential actions, often justified as responses to supposed "emergencies" (border wall funding, anyone?).  In light of that history, I suspect Biden would have wide latitude in the presence of an actual national emergency to achieve short-term policy goals--even if they were eventually struck down.

But it would be politically risky for him to appear authoritarian, handing down EOs that dictate local matters and slogging through the publicity of court challenges. Trump looked terrible doing it, and even Obama took a few hits. It's OK to admit that Biden is also a political animal, while still acknowledging he's being far more responsible than DeSantis.

Biden wants governors--the people with clear authority--to do the right thing. As another poster mentioned, "I just think expecting people to do the right thing on their own is wishful thinking." Unfortunately, in our case, that seems to extend to our governor. But Biden does not have the political appetite, so far, to intervene.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 05, 2021, 05:38:23 PM
The Wall Street Journal is considered right-of-center for reporting, and strong-right for editorials. One source: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/wall-street-journal/
Quote
RIGHT-CENTER BIAS

These media sources are slightly to moderately conservative in bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor conservative causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation. See all Right-Center sources.

    Overall, we rate the Wall Street Journal Right-Center biased due to low biased news reporting combined with a strong right biased editorial stance. We also rate them Mostly Factual in reporting rather than High due to anti-climate, anti-science stances, and occasional misleading editorials.

So, "yes" I consider WSJ as spreading right-wing talking points.

The writer of the editorial, Jason L. Riley, is a member of the Manhattan Institute, a "conservative think-tank", rated as having "right bias" by the same source: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/manhattan-institute-for-policy-research/
Quote
RIGHT BIAS

These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports, and omit information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Right Bias sources.

    Overall, we rate the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research Right Biased based on editorial and policy positions that routinely favor a conservative perspective. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to a lack of transparency with funding, use of poor sources, and a failed fact check.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 05, 2021, 05:43:43 PM
Soooo... you didn't read the article... lol. Nevermind... please don't...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 05, 2021, 09:28:06 PM
Soooo... you didn't read the article... lol. Nevermind... please don't...

I tried but it is behind a paywall.  You can only read the first few paragraphs before you hit a paywall.  Why don't you give us a synopsis?

That said, given that most of the unvaccinated are Republicans, why don't members of said party look in the mirror if they are that concerned about the spread of COVID.  Our #1 threat is from within.

Meanwhile, DeSantis just descends ever lower into the political sewers:
Quote
DeSantis insisted he is ready to object to any COVID-19 restrictions that would prevent business from operating normally. And he pointed the finger at Biden, saying he is the one who is “helping facilitate” the spread of COVID-19 by not securing the country’s Southern border with Mexico. “You have hundreds of thousands of people pouring across every month,” DeSantis said. “Not only are they letting them through, they’re farming them out all across the country, putting them on planes, putting them on buses. Do you think they’re worrying about COVID for that? Of course not.” As might be expected, DeSantis didn’t provide any evidence to support his allegations that “whatever variants there are around the world, they’re coming across that Southern border.” The governor had earlier blamed media “hysteria” for concerns over hospital capacity.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/08/desantis-blames-covid-immigrants-florida-hospitals-fill-up.amp

The one "facilitating" the spread of COVID is himself.  When does he start "worrying" about COVID? And, I thought he said Florida is "open for business" so why should immigrants patronizing Florida businesses concern him?  There are no mandates for vaccines or masks so why should immigrants be held to a standard any different than his fellow GOPers?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 06, 2021, 05:32:47 AM
Does the Wall street journal count as right wing talking points?  Probably yes in your world but...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/border-covid-illegal-undocumented-immigration-testing-biden-harris-11628023571

The WSJ isn't 'right wing talking points' in the same way the Huffington Post isn't the 'liberal media'.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 06, 2021, 08:44:23 AM
If you want the real story, you must listen to the "My Pillow" guy.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 07, 2021, 12:12:57 AM
I have lost count of how many lawsuits have been filed due to actions by DeSantis but here is another one regarding his school masks edicts.  The basis of the lawsuit appears to refer to the section of the State constitution I cited above.
Quote
Eight Florida attorneys have filed a lawsuit against Gov. Ron DeSantis over his executive order on masks in schools, said Charles Gallagher, an attorney working on the suit.

This is the first legal challenge over the constitutionality of the governor's order on masks, Gallagher said.

The order, issued late last month, directed the state's health and education departments to issue rules preventing the implementation of school mask mandates in an effort to "protect parents' freedom to choose whether their children wear masks."

"They are framing this as a parent choice issue when this is really a public health issue," Gallagher told CNN by phone....

....The plaintiffs in the lawsuit include parents who represent school-aged children from counties all over the state, including Miami-Dade, Orange, Hillsborough, Palm Beach and Alachua.

The lawsuit argues several points, according to Gallagher, including that the Florida Constitution guarantees a safe school environment and gives counties the power to govern themselves. DeSantis' executive order attempts to strip the power away from school districts that are run by elected officials, Gallagher said.

"The Constitution is equal justice under [the] law and therefore we think that we are on the right side of these facts," Gallagher said....

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/06/us/florida-desantis-executive-order-school-masks-first-legal-challenge-constitutionality/index.html
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 07, 2021, 10:31:30 PM
DeSantis "fiddles while Rome burns" should be his next campaign slogan as Florida sets daily COVID records and he sticks his head in the sand.
Quote
A record-breaking 23,903 new Covid-19 cases were reported in Florida on Friday, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

This marks the third time this week that Florida has surpassed its record of new daily Covid-19 cases. The state first reported its highest one-day total on July 31 with 21,683 new cases. Then, on Thursday, at least 22,783 new daily cases were reported, CDC data shows.

"This is real. And it didn’t have to be this bad," Nikki Fried, Florida's commissioner of agriculture and consumer services, tweeted Saturday. "We need everyone to do their part — #GetVaccinatedNow & #MaskUp. If not for yourself, for your friends, family, and neighbors. For our kids. For our doctors & nurses. For Florida."

Covid-19 hospitalizations in the state have also increased at record-breaking levels for six consecutive days, according to data from the Department of Health and Human Services.

On Saturday, Florida recorded 13,747 hospitalizations related to Covid-19, with at least 2,753 patients in intensive care units statewide, accounting for 43 percent of the intensive care units beds available in the state....

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-breaks-record-new-daily-covid-cases-third-time-week-n1276263
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on August 08, 2021, 10:13:49 AM
Does the Wall street journal count as right wing talking points?  Probably yes in your world but...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/border-covid-illegal-undocumented-immigration-testing-biden-harris-11628023571

Are you aware that Rupert Murdock owns the Wall Street Journal?


As for the larger point, while Biden or any President can certainly mandate certain things that are directly tied to government employees, funding or contracts, it is wholly unprecedented to make a nation-wide public health mandate, usurping those powers from the 50 states. Were he to do so, he would receive def-con resistance from the very same people (DeSantis and the Right) that are making the desire for such a mandate necessary in the first place. That is to say nothing of the fact that the situation is not as urgent in all parts of the country either. NOTHING stands in the way, no court or law, from DeSantis simply backing down from his reactionary, wholly wrong-headed approach to this issue.  He is running to be Trump's heir and if people suffer and die as a consequence, he is okay with that.       
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on August 08, 2021, 10:19:44 AM
Floriduh Man strikes again.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/anti-vaxx-radio-host-and-former-newsmax-anchor-dick-farrel-dies-of-coronavirus?ref=home (https://www.thedailybeast.com/anti-vaxx-radio-host-and-former-newsmax-anchor-dick-farrel-dies-of-coronavirus?ref=home)

An anti-vaccine right-wing radio host in West Palm Beach, Florida died Wednesday from COVID-19 complications. Dick Farrel, 65, used his local talk show and social media to rail against Dr. Anthony Fauci, who he called a “power tripping lying freak,” and say that no one should get the coronavirus vaccine. When COVID-19 sent him to the hospital for three weeks, though, he changed his tune, urging friends to get vaccinated, friends told local station WPTV.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 08, 2021, 01:02:34 PM
Floriduh Man strikes again.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/anti-vaxx-radio-host-and-former-newsmax-anchor-dick-farrel-dies-of-coronavirus?ref=home (https://www.thedailybeast.com/anti-vaxx-radio-host-and-former-newsmax-anchor-dick-farrel-dies-of-coronavirus?ref=home)

An anti-vaccine right-wing radio host in West Palm Beach, Florida died Wednesday from COVID-19 complications. Dick Farrel, 65, used his local talk show and social media to rail against Dr. Anthony Fauci, who he called a “power tripping lying freak,” and say that no one should get the coronavirus vaccine. When COVID-19 sent him to the hospital for three weeks, though, he changed his tune, urging friends to get vaccinated, friends told local station WPTV.
Good.  I have  zero sympathy for unvaccinated adults deaths.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 08, 2021, 01:08:29 PM
You may not die but hospitalization is expensive...

https://www.wesh.com/article/central-florida-doctor-cost-of-covid-19-care/37148292#

Quote
According to a review of costs associated with COVID-19 care, the national independent nonprofit Fair Health published a report late last year saying "an average COVID hospitalization with complications costs roughly $156,000 for someone with insurance with a basic COVID hospital stay costing about $29,000."   
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 08, 2021, 02:35:17 PM
You may not die but hospitalization is expensive...

https://www.wesh.com/article/central-florida-doctor-cost-of-covid-19-care/37148292#

Quote
According to a review of costs associated with COVID-19 care, the national independent nonprofit Fair Health published a report late last year saying "an average COVID hospitalization with complications costs roughly $156,000 for someone with insurance with a basic COVID hospital stay costing about $29,000."   

Reminds me of when my friend broke his arm at a bar and went home to sleep it off. The next morning he realised how bad he was hurt and went to hospital. Because of the wait, he ended up with a $30K bill from the hospital (no insurance).
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 09, 2021, 07:50:24 AM
Does the Wall street journal count as right wing talking points?  Probably yes in your world but...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/border-covid-illegal-undocumented-immigration-testing-biden-harris-11628023571

The WSJ isn't 'right wing talking points' in the same way the Huffington Post isn't the 'liberal media'.


How about NBC?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/18-percent-migrant-families-leaving-border-patrol-custody-tested-positive-n1276244
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 09, 2021, 09:17:21 AM
Does the Wall street journal count as right wing talking points?  Probably yes in your world but...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/border-covid-illegal-undocumented-immigration-testing-biden-harris-11628023571

The WSJ isn't 'right wing talking points' in the same way the Huffington Post isn't the 'liberal media'.


How about NBC?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/18-percent-migrant-families-leaving-border-patrol-custody-tested-positive-n1276244

No idea. I’m simply pointing out that the WSJ is easily as biased as HuffPo. Hell, they openly state they are pro-capitalism. That’s right wing by default.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 09, 2021, 10:00:10 AM
Lol...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 09, 2021, 10:17:37 AM
Lol...

(https://media.giphy.com/media/jIn8yZPo4dtZAJ5oPY/giphy.mp4)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 09, 2021, 12:50:44 PM
DeSantis' strange fight with the cruise industry--which he tried to straw-man into a fight with the CDC--deals a blow to his vaccine passport ban. If FL appeals this to the Supreme Court and loses, DeSantis will have provided the test case that ultimately leads to a national green light for businesses to require proof of vaccination if they so choose. Kind of ironic that an unintended consequence of pandering to a supposedly Republican base could result in the -- unwanted? -- protection of private interests to control access to their establishments. I wonder how that figures into the political calculation for him.

Quote
A federal judge on Sunday night sided with Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings in a fight with Florida over vaccine passports, granting the cruise line’s request for a preliminary injunction that blocks a state law barring businesses from requiring proof of vaccination.

In a nearly 60-page ruling, U.S. District Judge Kathleen Williams stated that Florida “fails to provide a valid evidentiary, factual, or legal predicate” for its prohibition on vaccine passports.

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2021/08/08/federal-judge-sides-with-norwegian-cruise-line-in-fight-with-florida-over-vaccine-passports-1389732 (https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2021/08/08/federal-judge-sides-with-norwegian-cruise-line-in-fight-with-florida-over-vaccine-passports-1389732)

As an aside, I haven't read the ruling, but the article makes it sound like the injunction is quite broad.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: tufsu1 on August 09, 2021, 03:30:09 PM
Does the Wall street journal count as right wing talking points?  Probably yes in your world but...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/border-covid-illegal-undocumented-immigration-testing-biden-harris-11628023571

The WSJ isn't 'right wing talking points' in the same way the Huffington Post isn't the 'liberal media'.


How about NBC?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/18-percent-migrant-families-leaving-border-patrol-custody-tested-positive-n1276244

the 18% matches Florida right now (and lower than Jax) - perhaps we should all be deported too?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 09, 2021, 05:38:36 PM
Does the Wall street journal count as right wing talking points?  Probably yes in your world but...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/border-covid-illegal-undocumented-immigration-testing-biden-harris-11628023571

The WSJ isn't 'right wing talking points' in the same way the Huffington Post isn't the 'liberal media'.


How about NBC?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/18-percent-migrant-families-leaving-border-patrol-custody-tested-positive-n1276244

the 18% matches Florida right now (and lower than Jax) - perhaps we should all be deported too?

Well that’s just silly. The contention is that Desantis isn’t doing “everything “ he can to protect the public. While that criticism might be fair it is also true that the President isn’t doing “everything “ he can either. We all know politics come into play for virtually all decisions at the executive level…

Canada closed the borders with the US… not sure why the border with Mexico cannot be closed…
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on August 09, 2021, 07:10:58 PM
Does the Wall street journal count as right wing talking points?  Probably yes in your world but...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/border-covid-illegal-undocumented-immigration-testing-biden-harris-11628023571

The WSJ isn't 'right wing talking points' in the same way the Huffington Post isn't the 'liberal media'.


How about NBC?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/18-percent-migrant-families-leaving-border-patrol-custody-tested-positive-n1276244

the 18% matches Florida right now (and lower than Jax) - perhaps we should all be deported too?

Well that’s just silly. The contention is that Desantis isn’t doing “everything “ he can to protect the public. While that criticism might be fair it is also true that the President isn’t doing “everything “ he can either. We all know politics come into play for virtually all decisions at the executive level…

Canada closed the borders with the US… not sure why the border with Mexico cannot be closed…

Are you aware of the standard of living in Canada vs. Mexico?

DeSantis is not JUST 'not doing everything he can', he is ACTIVELY and DELIBERATELY making the situation worse, which is clearly evidenced by the fact that FL has the highest levels of Covid in the country.  You certainly cannot say that about Biden, and as has already been pointed out, he has less power to enact a mask or vaccine mandate.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 09, 2021, 08:03:43 PM
Does the Wall street journal count as right wing talking points?  Probably yes in your world but...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/border-covid-illegal-undocumented-immigration-testing-biden-harris-11628023571

The WSJ isn't 'right wing talking points' in the same way the Huffington Post isn't the 'liberal media'.


How about NBC?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/18-percent-migrant-families-leaving-border-patrol-custody-tested-positive-n1276244

the 18% matches Florida right now (and lower than Jax) - perhaps we should all be deported too?

Well that’s just silly. The contention is that Desantis isn’t doing “everything “ he can to protect the public. While that criticism might be fair it is also true that the President isn’t doing “everything “ he can either. We all know politics come into play for virtually all decisions at the executive level…

Canada closed the borders with the US… not sure why the border with Mexico cannot be closed…

Are you aware of the standard of living in Canada vs. Mexico?

DeSantis is not JUST 'not doing everything he can', he is ACTIVELY and DELIBERATELY making the situation worse, which is clearly evidenced by the fact that FL has the highest levels of Covid in the country.  You certainly cannot say that about Biden, and as has already been pointed out, he has less power to enact a mask or vaccine mandate.



Hmm… seems like a double standard to me. Biden makes a political policy decision to favor his voters but when desantis does the same he is vilified. Not surprised… just sayin…
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: WAJAS on August 09, 2021, 08:04:27 PM
BridgeTroll, what's your take on the talk that Biden might require proof of vaccination to travel to the US? It'd quell the worry about the southern border introducing more COVID.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 09, 2021, 08:15:15 PM
I’m actually in favor of those requirements. I would like to see those vaccination cards put to use within the borders for travel… but then I also think voter registration ID cards are a good thing too so….
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 09, 2021, 09:33:39 PM
The Southern border story is BS. 
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 09, 2021, 10:30:32 PM
Canada closed the borders with the US… not sure why the border with Mexico cannot be closed…
Trump tried "closing" the border with Mexico and didn't get it done.  Even his "wall" was a failure.  The reality is comparing the borders of Canada and Mexico are apples and oranges. 

Canadians seem to be mostly content with their county's living conditions and aren't "dying" to migrate to the U.S. (in fact, more American's might prefer to migrate to Canada at times  8) ).

On the other hand, those coming across the Mexican border are desperate due to unchecked crime, abuse and devastating living conditions that threaten their very survival.  Most all global migrations share the same motivations and no country can totally seal their physical borders.  These people are going to keep coming until conditions improve in their homelands as they have nothing to lose trying to get to the U.S. regardless of being "illegal" or returned to their homelands.  Look at our own ancestors (aside from those brought as slaves or Native Americans) that migrated here and tell me they weren't similarly motivated.  Most may have been legal because they had to schedule an ocean or air trip that is easier for the U.S. to monitor.  If we were physically connected or closer to Asia or Europe, I have no doubt we would have similar issues with other nations (e.g see African migrations across the Mediterranean, Syrians into Turkey and migrations in Southeast Asia from Myanmar.  Now we can add Afghanistan).

Trump with his GOP Congress had no policies to support or advocate for such improvements to these homelands and so here we are.  Congress needs to approve a bipartisan and long term plan that addresses the motivating issues.  Until then, nothing will change.  Biden can't get Congress to agree to much even when he tries to appease Republicans due to GOP obstructionism for no other reason than trying to make Biden look weak.  They are not true patriots but political hacks and have often admitted as much.  Just look at McConnell saying he will not approve any Supreme Court justice nominated by Biden no matter what.   That says it all right there.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 10, 2021, 06:11:36 AM
The Southern border story is BS. 

So the illegals crossing over ARE vaccinated? WTF??? Who knew?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on August 10, 2021, 03:51:54 PM
Maybe the same people in Mexico that are disappearing the 13 year old girls for the sex businesses are setting up vaccination centers on the migration routes, eh?    Pretty thoughtful of them as they were already lending out young children to people crossing the border.    ;-)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 10, 2021, 04:55:57 PM
Excellent fact based reporting here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/06/why-we-can-be-confident-that-surge-coronavirus-cases-isnt-fault-immigrants/

Not only details the issue but illustrates the pathetic laziness of the Fox News-Ted Cruz Show. Much easier to repeat a talking point than to actually research an answer.


From the article: " Part of the reason that immigrants are being targeted as vectors for the spread of the coronavirus is that public health experts are identifying a more obvious cause: a lack of vaccinations. Since opposition to vaccination overlaps with opposition to preventive measures like wearing masks — and since wearing masks has been politicized by Republican elected officials as an infringement on personal freedom — there’s a motivation to find some other scapegoat for the surge in cases. There’s a reason the unvaccinated were a lot more likely to blame “foreign travelers” than the unvaccinated for the surge.

And there’s a reason that Ted Cruz and Sean Hannity did the same. It’s much easier for them to say that the increase is a function of immigrants than it is to blame Republican voters and Fox News viewers. But it’s obviously not true."
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 10, 2021, 05:12:34 PM
Excellent fact based reporting here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/06/why-we-can-be-confident-that-surge-coronavirus-cases-isnt-fault-immigrants/

Not only details the issue but illustrates the pathetic laziness of the Fox News-Ted Cruz Show. Much easier to repeat a talking point than to actually research an answer.


From the article: " Part of the reason that immigrants are being targeted as vectors for the spread of the coronavirus is that public health experts are identifying a more obvious cause: a lack of vaccinations. Since opposition to vaccination overlaps with opposition to preventive measures like wearing masks — and since wearing masks has been politicized by Republican elected officials as an infringement on personal freedom — there’s a motivation to find some other scapegoat for the surge in cases. There’s a reason the unvaccinated were a lot more likely to blame “foreign travelers” than the unvaccinated for the surge.

And there’s a reason that Ted Cruz and Sean Hannity did the same. It’s much easier for them to say that the increase is a function of immigrants than it is to blame Republican voters and Fox News viewers. But it’s obviously not true."

I don't think NBC is Fox or affiliated with Hannity or Cruz... this article has actual facts... not "fact based".... you found one article that fits your meme... President Biden knows better...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/18-percent-migrant-families-leaving-border-patrol-custody-tested-positive-n1276244

Quote
WASHINGTON — More than 18 percent of migrant families and 20 percent of unaccompanied minors who recently crossed the U.S. border tested positive for Covid on leaving Border Patrol custody over the past two to three weeks, according to a document prepared this week for a Thursday briefing with President Joe Biden.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 10, 2021, 10:16:51 PM
Blaming our current COVID surge on immigrants as a significant cause is nonsense. Acting like illegal immigration from a country less privileged than ours (re: less accessible healthcare) has nothing to do with spreading COVID is also nonsense.

Our country's response to COVID has been lacking since day 1, and both parties have shameful examples of putting politics over their constituents' lives. Instead of condemning it in total, "we the people" have fallen into the old refrain of whataboutism and finger pointing,  which only reinforces party entrenchment. DeSantis is one member of a larger hall of shame that knows no party. If DJT ever got anything right, it was "drain the swamp." Great message, bad messenger.

I'd like to think we have the capacity to call out multiple failures of leadership in parallel. We'll be better for it.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 11, 2021, 06:41:04 AM
Blaming our current COVID surge on immigrants as a significant cause is nonsense. Acting like illegal immigration from a country less privileged than ours (re: less accessible healthcare) has nothing to do with spreading COVID is also nonsense.

Our country's response to COVID has been lacking since day 1, and both parties have shameful examples of putting politics over their constituents' lives. Instead of condemning it in total, "we the people" have fallen into the old refrain of whataboutism and finger pointing,  which only reinforces party entrenchment. DeSantis is one member of a larger hall of shame that knows no party. If DJT ever got anything right, it was "drain the swamp." Great message, bad messenger.

I'd like to think we have the capacity to call out multiple failures of leadership in parallel. We'll be better for it.

First... I  am certainly not "blaming" the current surge on illegal immigration. I am pointing out the hypocrisy of some here and the Biden administration in their criticism of Florida policy. Additionally...last year... Canada closed their border with the US in response to our infection rates... why hasn't the  same thing been done on our border? Of course we all know the answer... we lost border control decades ago. 20% of illegals in custody test positive for Covid. You can safely assume the same number applies to those not caught.

I  agree with the premise that political posturing from both parties and constituents reinforces partisanship. It was one of the reasons I quit my former party...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on August 11, 2021, 08:18:00 AM
Does the Wall street journal count as right wing talking points?  Probably yes in your world but...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/border-covid-illegal-undocumented-immigration-testing-biden-harris-11628023571

The WSJ isn't 'right wing talking points' in the same way the Huffington Post isn't the 'liberal media'.


How about NBC?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/18-percent-migrant-families-leaving-border-patrol-custody-tested-positive-n1276244

the 18% matches Florida right now (and lower than Jax) - perhaps we should all be deported too?

Well that’s just silly. The contention is that Desantis isn’t doing “everything “ he can to protect the public. While that criticism might be fair it is also true that the President isn’t doing “everything “ he can either. We all know politics come into play for virtually all decisions at the executive level…

Canada closed the borders with the US… not sure why the border with Mexico cannot be closed…

Are you aware of the standard of living in Canada vs. Mexico?

DeSantis is not JUST 'not doing everything he can', he is ACTIVELY and DELIBERATELY making the situation worse, which is clearly evidenced by the fact that FL has the highest levels of Covid in the country.  You certainly cannot say that about Biden, and as has already been pointed out, he has less power to enact a mask or vaccine mandate.



Hmm… seems like a double standard to me. Biden makes a political policy decision to favor his voters but when desantis does the same he is vilified. Not surprised… just sayin…

Actually the double standard is advocating for a nation-wide response from the Federal government, with absolutely no precedence, while claiming to support limited Federal powers and localized governing.

DeSantis is WAY, WAY out on a limb and you realize it can't be defended, so you are pointing fingers elsewhere.

Meanwhile, DeSantis rakes in the cash as his reputation for Trump-like behavior grows.

   https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2021/08/10/desantis-rakes-in-cash-as-floridas-covid-wars-rage-1389785 (https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2021/08/10/desantis-rakes-in-cash-as-floridas-covid-wars-rage-1389785)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 11, 2021, 09:14:40 AM
DeSantis has made a political calculation and so has Biden... each panders to his own.  Seems the democrats are a bit unnerved by a possible DeSantis run... DeSantis vs Harris....
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 11, 2021, 09:34:43 AM
I think the DSantis vs Trump Republican primaries would be fun......
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: JPalmer on August 11, 2021, 10:23:52 AM
I think Desantis has a real chance to overtake Trump nationally, which he still has to do. Speaking from experience, even the most vocal Trump supporters in FLA will tell you they are supporting Desantis moving forward.  I think Desantis v Trump will be the GOP contenders, not sure about any other wild cards.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 11, 2021, 10:28:58 AM
Trump lost popular vote twice, impeached twice, and lost the House and the Senate, yet is still considered the leader of the Republican Party.
I think that says a lot about the Republican Party.  The days of reasonable Republicans like Romney and McCain are dead......?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 11, 2021, 11:32:37 AM
Blaming our current COVID surge on immigrants as a significant cause is nonsense. Acting like illegal immigration from a country less privileged than ours (re: less accessible healthcare) has nothing to do with spreading COVID is also nonsense.

Our country's response to COVID has been lacking since day 1, and both parties have shameful examples of putting politics over their constituents' lives. Instead of condemning it in total, "we the people" have fallen into the old refrain of whataboutism and finger pointing,  which only reinforces party entrenchment. DeSantis is one member of a larger hall of shame that knows no party. If DJT ever got anything right, it was "drain the swamp." Great message, bad messenger.

I'd like to think we have the capacity to call out multiple failures of leadership in parallel. We'll be better for it.

First... I  am certainly not "blaming" the current surge on illegal immigration. I am pointing out the hypocrisy of some here and the Biden administration in their criticism of Florida policy. Additionally...last year... Canada closed their border with the US in response to our infection rates... why hasn't the  same thing been done on our border? Of course we all know the answer... we lost border control decades ago. 20% of illegals in custody test positive for Covid. You can safely assume the same number applies to those not caught.

I  agree with the premise that political posturing from both parties and constituents reinforces partisanship. It was one of the reasons I quit my former party...

Understood -- I didn't intend to attribute the causation argument to you, but there are many on the right who are mightily insinuating it if not outright saying it. My point was broader in the sense that the GOP is using the border as their boogeyman to avoid talking about how poorly deep red southern states are faring with COVID, and Democrats are piling on the likes of DeSantis as their boogeyman to avoid addressing some of their own issues. The end result of that whataboutism is always that the shortcomings on both sides never get addressed because the other side is always the one with the REAL issue.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: tufsu1 on August 11, 2021, 11:43:19 AM
DeSantis has made a political calculation and so has Biden... each panders to his own.  Seems the democrats are a bit unnerved by a possible DeSantis run... DeSantis vs Harris....

Yes....I am quite unnerved by the guy who was asked about a state request for ventilators yesterday and stumbled big-time in answering
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 11, 2021, 11:53:58 AM
Trump lost popular vote twice, impeached twice, and lost the House and the Senate, yet is still considered the leader of the Republican Party.
I think that says a lot about the Republican Party.  The days of reasonable Republicans like Romney and McCain are dead......?
I left what is now the republican party... I am not part of the current maga bs or this new version of "conservatism"  Not sure where I belong because neither party in their current configuration or platform appeals to me...

There is a lot of frustration in our current situation resulting in finger pointing at government officials... I believe fingers need to be pointed at our fellow citizens...  get your shots,  wear your masks, and keep your distance...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on August 11, 2021, 12:43:52 PM
DeSantis has made a political calculation and so has Biden... each panders to his own.  Seems the democrats are a bit unnerved by a possible DeSantis run... DeSantis vs Harris....

Yes....I am quite unnerved by the guy who was asked about a state request for ventilators yesterday and stumbled big-time in answering


If someone stumbling big-time actually unnerved you, you'd have a nervous break down just mentioning Jeriatric Joe.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on August 11, 2021, 12:45:02 PM

Do Florida's #s for new CV19 cases break sharply down with this Friday's # release?

Or will it be next Friday, Aug 20th?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on August 11, 2021, 12:50:39 PM
Excellent fact based reporting here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/06/why-we-can-be-confident-that-surge-coronavirus-cases-isnt-fault-immigrants/

Not only details the issue but illustrates the pathetic laziness of the Fox News-Ted Cruz Show. Much easier to repeat a talking point than to actually research an answer.


From the article: " Part of the reason that immigrants are being targeted as vectors for the spread of the coronavirus is that public health experts are identifying a more obvious cause: a lack of vaccinations. Since opposition to vaccination overlaps with opposition to preventive measures like wearing masks — and since wearing masks has been politicized by Republican elected officials as an infringement on personal freedom — there’s a motivation to find some other scapegoat for the surge in cases. There’s a reason the unvaccinated were a lot more likely to blame “foreign travelers” than the unvaccinated for the surge.

And there’s a reason that Ted Cruz and Sean Hannity did the same. It’s much easier for them to say that the increase is a function of immigrants than it is to blame Republican voters and Fox News viewers. But it’s obviously not true."


Those illegals are neither vaccinated nor wearing face coverings.

They're the worst of the worst when it comes to spreading covid19 by those standards.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/21/world/covid-surge-caribbean-central-america.html


only 15 percent have been fully vaccinated
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 11, 2021, 12:54:43 PM
Quote
Part of the reason that immigrants are being targeted as vectors for the spread of the coronavirus is that public health experts are identifying a more obvious cause: a lack of vaccinations. Since opposition to vaccination overlaps with opposition to preventive measures like wearing masks — and since wearing masks has been politicized by Republican elected officials as an infringement on personal freedom — there’s a motivation to find some other scapegoat for the surge in cases. There’s a reason the unvaccinated were a lot more likely to blame “foreign travelers” than the unvaccinated for the surge.

And there’s a reason that Ted Cruz and Sean Hannity did the same. It’s much easier for them to say that the increase is a function of immigrants than it is to blame Republican voters and Fox News viewers. But it’s obviously not true.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/06/why-we-can-be-confident-that-surge-coronavirus-cases-isnt-fault-immigrants/?fbclid=IwAR2gPA4q8URYZzHGyySZFAmH3gi_R3WieGazxa5LUYNLNgiBofO8FQgdqJo

There's a lot of interesting analysis in that story. TL;DR - basically, whilst migrants may be a vector for COVID transmission, it's nowhere on the scale of the way it's being characterised by those with political agendas.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 11, 2021, 01:38:41 PM
If you follow the logic (hint: there is none) of BL8 and BT,  the Covid outbreak in Florida is caused by illegal immigrants? Then how come the outbreak here in JAX is so bad? You are alleging that the 'illegals' are coming here? Where is your proof? Have you spoken with any physicians in the COVID ICU?  Don't you think DeSantis would have cameras in every Covid ward in Florida showing that's it's all being spread by illegals who came here to be with family and loved ones?  Wouldn't illegals make up the majority of ICU patients, if they were the source of the outbreak?

If you can provide a link  (dated in the last week) to any Florida Public Healthcare official stating on the record the Covid outbreak in FLORIDA is linked directly to an influx of illegal immigrants I'd like to see it. 

In the presser it notes, DeSantis provided no proof for his statements.  That, by the way, is a VERY TRUMPIAN thing to do.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 11, 2021, 01:50:58 PM
If you follow the logic (hint: there is none) of BL8 and BT,  the Covid outbreak in Florida is caused by illegal immigrants? Then how come the outbreak here in JAX is so bad? You are alleging that the 'illegals' are coming here? Where is your proof? Have you spoken with any physicians in the COVID ICU?  Don't you think DeSantis would have cameras in every Covid ward in Florida showing that's it's all being spread by illegals who came here to be with family and loved ones?  Wouldn't illegals make up the majority of ICU patients, if they were the source of the outbreak?

If you can provide a link  (dated in the last week) to any Florida Public Healthcare official stating on the record the Covid outbreak in FLORIDA is linked directly to an influx of illegal immigrants I'd like to see it. 

In the presser it notes, DeSantis provided no proof for his statements.  That, by the way, is a VERY TRUMPIAN thing to do.

Clearly you cannot read... Virtually nowhere in this thread has claimed the outbreak in Florida or anywhere is caused by illegals.

Read the posts before making outrageous claims... good god man...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 11, 2021, 01:55:30 PM
Trump lost popular vote twice, impeached twice, and lost the House and the Senate, yet is still considered the leader of the Republican Party.
I think that says a lot about the Republican Party.  The days of reasonable Republicans like Romney and McCain are dead......?
I left what is now the republican party... I am not part of the current maga bs or this new version of "conservatism"  Not sure where I belong because neither party in their current configuration or platform appeals to me...

There is a lot of frustration in our current situation resulting in finger pointing at government officials... I believe fingers need to be pointed at our fellow citizens...  get your shots,  wear your masks, and keep your distance...
Troll, You say a lot of things.  You say you "left what is now the republican party", but you say the same b/s that the republican party preaches.  Your testimony doesn't hold water.  You will moderate for a short time and then go back to your same old "well how about how bad your party handled so and so situation.  You have zero cred.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 11, 2021, 03:36:36 PM
Trump lost popular vote twice, impeached twice, and lost the House and the Senate, yet is still considered the leader of the Republican Party.
I think that says a lot about the Republican Party.  The days of reasonable Republicans like Romney and McCain are dead......?
I left what is now the republican party... I am not part of the current maga bs or this new version of "conservatism"  Not sure where I belong because neither party in their current configuration or platform appeals to me...

There is a lot of frustration in our current situation resulting in finger pointing at government officials... I believe fingers need to be pointed at our fellow citizens...  get your shots,  wear your masks, and keep your distance...
Troll, You say a lot of things.  You say you "left what is now the republican party", but you say the same b/s that the republican party preaches.  Your testimony doesn't hold water.  You will moderate for a short time and then go back to your same old "well how about how bad your party handled so and so situation.  You have zero cred.

Complement coming from you... as you have zero with me.  Just because I am not a republican certainly does not mean I'm coming over to the dark side...lol
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 11, 2021, 03:44:48 PM
People are dying. ICU's are full to capacity.  DeSantis' inaction (aka 'personal freedom is more important than personal responsibilty')  is an issue. At least Biden is setting a reasonable example.

"There is a lot of frustration in our current situation resulting in finger pointing at government officials... I believe fingers need to be pointed at our fellow citizens...  get your shots,  wear your masks, and keep your distance..."

Agree with you on that. 

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 11, 2021, 04:06:55 PM
I think you mean complIment, Troll.  If we are talking about Covid being rampant in Jax, you may complEment the conversation by reminding us of the illegal situation at the border.  You may not belong to the Republican party, but you think just like them.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 11, 2021, 04:12:06 PM
People are dying. ICU's are full to capacity.  DeSantis' inaction (aka 'personal freedom is more important than personal responsibilty')  is an issue. At least Biden is setting a reasonable example.

"There is a lot of frustration in our current situation resulting in finger pointing at government officials... I believe fingers need to be pointed at our fellow citizens...  get your shots,  wear your masks, and keep your distance..."

Agree with you on that. 



If you agree with me on those three central points then you also agree with most of the DeSantis policy.  I disagree that he prioritized personal freedom over personal responsibility. We are all mostly on the same page... you and yours simply want a more restrictive society than he is willing to do...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 11, 2021, 04:13:22 PM
I think you mean complIment, Troll.  If we are talking about Covid being rampant in Jax, you may complEment the conversation by reminding us of the illegal situation at the border.  You may not belong to the Republican party, but you think just like them.

Meh... if can't see the difference I ain't gonna waste my time... with you...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 11, 2021, 04:42:34 PM
Personal responsibility is only for those with average+ intelligence.  There are so many among us who will make no effort to help our society be a better, healthier, place.  Those people have to be pushed.  We don't need to appease those who only think of themselves.  Mandates are only for those who refuse to do what your average citizen does.  Those who have shown personal responsibility have gotten the vaccine, wear masks, social distance, etc.  The others are bottom feeders who need to be forced to do the right thing.  Who should DeSantis listen to?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 11, 2021, 05:58:13 PM
Force the bottom feeders??? Wow... your elitism is shining through. Lol...perhaps yellow stars or red letters?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 11, 2021, 06:06:38 PM
That attitude is all well and good for the Trumpy COVID deniers, but vaccine acceptance among black and hispanic Americans is quite poor as well. One suggested reason, especially among black unvaccinated people, has been--shocker--a lack of trust in authority, which I've heard is informed by credible history. Then again, I'm only of average intelligence, so unless I'm told to verify that I probably won't. I'm sure forced vaccinations for those "bottom feeders," as you call them, will see our country to a better place.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 11, 2021, 07:19:30 PM
I never said anything about forced vaccinations, your words, not mine.  I believe in covid passports.  If you can't prove you have tested negative or have been vaccinated, no entry to restaurants, theaters, airplanes, stores, schools, etc.  Had we done that last year, we'd be near normal now.  The right talks of the economy as more important than our health.  On the one hand they are against healthcare for all, against mandates, and want to get the economy back.  We would have been far better off cracking down on Covid than allowing hundreds of thousands of Americans to die.  What is the cost of all the ventilators, hospital stays, rehabbing, that the uninsured are costing our economy?  I may be an elitist, but I'm not a moron.  These people who refuse to wear masks and get the vaccine are lowlifes.  I love to see them on TV after they get Covid saying they wish they had gotten the vaccine and want their family and friends to get it.  How many family, friends and stranger did these idiots infect? 
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 12, 2021, 08:38:48 AM
I never said anything about forced vaccinations, your words, not mine.  I believe in covid passports.  If you can't prove you have tested negative or have been vaccinated, no entry to restaurants, theaters, airplanes, stores, schools, etc.  Had we done that last year, we'd be near normal now. 

I wouldn't be so sure of that. The vaccines appear to offer somewhere around 60% efficacy against the delta variant of the virus. In the UK, close to 50% of those in hospital with COVID19 have been double-vaccinated. While I have no doubt that the USA would be in a much better place if there had been a higher percentage of people being vaccinated, the truth is that until the world is vaccinated, variants will continue to spread (and variants that can evade our vaccines will become more likely).

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 12, 2021, 03:39:40 PM
I'll have to agree.  So much time has passed and so many remain unvaccinated, it may be too late.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 12, 2021, 06:05:17 PM
Help me out here... people not convinced to get vaccinated, in part, due to vaccines still being deemed as having only emergency approval, will willingly submit to take Regeneron, also under emergency approval, AFTER they get COVID?

Quote
Gov. DeSantis unveils Jacksonville site for getting Regeneron treatment of COVID infections

....the monoclonal treatment got emergency use authorization from the federal government at about the same time similar authorization was given last year to vaccines for the COVID-19 virus. DeSantis said doctors have been able to get real-world results that show the treatments work at reducing hospitalizations and deaths....

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/08/12/gov-ron-desantis-unveils-regeneron-site-jacksonville-covid-19/8108170002/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Josh on August 13, 2021, 09:21:15 AM
Help me out here... people not convinced to get vaccinated, in part, due to vaccines still being deemed as having only emergency approval, will willingly submit to take Regeneron, also under emergency approval, AFTER they get COVID?

Quote
Gov. DeSantis unveils Jacksonville site for getting Regeneron treatment of COVID infections

....the monoclonal treatment got emergency use authorization from the federal government at about the same time similar authorization was given last year to vaccines for the COVID-19 virus. DeSantis said doctors have been able to get real-world results that show the treatments work at reducing hospitalizations and deaths....

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/08/12/gov-ron-desantis-unveils-regeneron-site-jacksonville-covid-19/8108170002/

CBS News had a similar story with one of the nutjobs they interviewed in an ICU that was recovering from COVID. He said he still wouldn't get the vaccine since it wasn't FDA-approved, and they pointed out that to save his life he was given multiple treatments that were not FDA-approved.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 13, 2021, 09:43:42 AM
Help me out here... people not convinced to get vaccinated, in part, due to vaccines still being deemed as having only emergency approval, will willingly submit to take Regeneron, also under emergency approval, AFTER they get COVID?

Quote
Gov. DeSantis unveils Jacksonville site for getting Regeneron treatment of COVID infections

....the monoclonal treatment got emergency use authorization from the federal government at about the same time similar authorization was given last year to vaccines for the COVID-19 virus. DeSantis said doctors have been able to get real-world results that show the treatments work at reducing hospitalizations and deaths....

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/08/12/gov-ron-desantis-unveils-regeneron-site-jacksonville-covid-19/8108170002/
Isn't this kind of like saying, "I don't believe in contraception, but here take the morning after pill, that works too."
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: acme54321 on August 13, 2021, 11:25:54 AM
I don't think DeSantis is anti vax, he has said multiple times it's a good idea and that people should get them. At the same time he's also saying that people have a choice if they want it or not.  Not mutually exclusive things.  If people are dumb enough at this point not to get it that's on them.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 13, 2021, 01:57:32 PM
I don't think DeSantis is anti vax, he has said multiple times it's a good idea and that people should get them. At the same time he's also saying that people have a choice if they want it or not.  Not mutually exclusive things.  If people are dumb enough at this point not to get it that's on them.
Wish it was that simple.  It might be "on them", but also on everyone they come in contact with, and an avenue for further mutations that will allow Covid to stay with us.  These people only think of themselves and not the whole picture.  DeSantis may not be anti vax, but he is enabling the anti vaxers with the misinformation that has us in the situation we now find ourselves.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 13, 2021, 02:09:13 PM
Misinformation?  Like... get vaccinated... wear your mask... and stay distanced?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 13, 2021, 02:26:57 PM
Remember Mythbusters?  Loved that show...   :)

https://unherd.com/thepost/the-most-vaccine-hesitant-education-group-of-all-phds/

(https://unherd.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/image-8-1.png)

The popular meme that the unvaccinated are uneducated rightwing nutjobs is simply inaccurate.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 13, 2021, 03:35:22 PM
Remember Mythbusters?  Loved that show...   :)

https://unherd.com/thepost/the-most-vaccine-hesitant-education-group-of-all-phds/

(https://unherd.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/image-8-1.png)

The popular meme that the unvaccinated are uneducated rightwing nutjobs is simply inaccurate.

I bet there are a lot more people with 'high school or less' education than there are PhDs.

Mythbusters was a lot of fun, but they were really bad at the scientific method. I was really sad when Grant died. Very unexpected.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on August 13, 2021, 04:13:06 PM
About 40% of Americans are in the high school or less category. About 3.2% have doctoral degrees (including MDs, DDS, and DNPs as well as PhDs), with only about 1.7% having PhDs specifically.

As for why PhDs have such high levels of hesitancy? Well, some very smart people believe some very stupid things. Orwell comes to mind: "One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe something like that. No ordinary man could be such a fool."
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 13, 2021, 06:28:36 PM
About 40% of Americans are in the high school or less category. About 3.2% have doctoral degrees (including MDs, DDS, and DNPs as well as PhDs), with only about 1.7% having PhDs specifically.

As for why PhDs have such high levels of hesitancy? Well, some very smart people believe some very stupid things. Orwell comes to mind: "One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe something like that. No ordinary man could be such a fool."

Not pointing fingers here... except that the national meme is wrong... clearly Trump and supporters make a convenient target... even if it is wrong.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 13, 2021, 09:38:02 PM
I disagree. I keep seeing headlines "Republican lawmaker who scoffed at Covid dies of Covid."  ....see Scott Apley for an example.

If DeSantis would simply visit the local Covid ward he might learn something, but he's to busy appearing on Fox....


https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/nate-monroe/2021/08/13/nate-monroe-view-from-jacksonville-icu-floridas-covid-19-hot-zone/8124978002/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on August 13, 2021, 10:07:08 PM
About 40% of Americans are in the high school or less category. About 3.2% have doctoral degrees (including MDs, DDS, and DNPs as well as PhDs), with only about 1.7% having PhDs specifically.

As for why PhDs have such high levels of hesitancy? Well, some very smart people believe some very stupid things. Orwell comes to mind: "One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe something like that. No ordinary man could be such a fool."

Not pointing fingers here... except that the national meme is wrong... clearly Trump and supporters make a convenient target... even if it is wrong.

Well, it isn’t totally wrong. Other surveys have repeatedly found Republican voters are far more likely than others to be vaccine resistors. One I saw a few months ago had the national level at 13% vaccine refusal, but Republicans were at nearly 30%. There are also anti-vaxxer idiots on the left or who aren’t particularly political, but particularly common among Republicans.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 14, 2021, 06:50:57 AM
About 40% of Americans are in the high school or less category. About 3.2% have doctoral degrees (including MDs, DDS, and DNPs as well as PhDs), with only about 1.7% having PhDs specifically.

As for why PhDs have such high levels of hesitancy? Well, some very smart people believe some very stupid things. Orwell comes to mind: "One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe something like that. No ordinary man could be such a fool."

Not pointing fingers here... except that the national meme is wrong... clearly Trump and supporters make a convenient target... even if it is wrong.

Well, it isn’t totally wrong. Other surveys have repeatedly found Republican voters are far more likely than others to be vaccine resistors. One I saw a few months ago had the national level at 13% vaccine refusal, but Republicans were at nearly 30%. There are also anti-vaxxer idiots on the left or who aren’t particularly political, but particularly common among Republicans.

Apparently just under 1 in 4 PhDs is 'vaccine resistant'. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that 1 in 4 PhDs could be Republicans. It's probably very likely, though I seriously doubt all Republican PhDs are vaccine-hesitant.

At the end of the day, the number of vaccine-hesitant people who have a PhD is very small, compared the vast number of people who have high school diplomas (or less). And, according to the chart, it's worth noting that the vast majority of people in every category are not vaccine-hesitant. So, by extension, the vast majority of Americans are not vaccine-hesitant.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2021, 07:27:05 AM
You guys are not seeing the whole forest... my read is add up the folks with bachelor degrees and up... you have over 50% of college educated vaccine hesitancy... add in the some college crowd and the numbers are very large leaving the uneducated as a distinctly small minority...

(https://unherd.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/image-8-1.png)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2021, 08:55:46 AM
This will help with vaccination rates...

(https://jabberwocking.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/blog_wsj_require_vaccination.jpg)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 14, 2021, 09:24:02 AM
You guys are not seeing the whole forest... my read is add up the folks with bachelor degrees and up... you have over 50% of college educated vaccine hesitancy... add in the some college crowd and the numbers are very large leaving the uneducated as a distinctly small minority...

(https://unherd.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/image-8-1.png)

Oh, BT....you might want to work on your math :(

Yes, 11 + 8.3 + 12.3 + 23.9 = 55.5. But that doesn't mean 55.5% of college educated people are vaccine hesitant. Because, by that logic, 344.5% of college educated people are not vaccine hesitant! (add 89 + 91.7 + 87.7 + 76.1)

What you want to do is figure out what percentage 55.5 is of 400.

Spoiler alert: it's 13.875%

So 13.875% of people with bachelor's degrees (or higher) are vaccine hesitant. So college grads are overwhelmingly pro-vaccine.

But, again, these percentages are relatively meaningless without the numbers.

According to this article (https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/analysis/2021/07/01/how-many-americans-have-college-degrees/) 42% of Americans have some sort of college degree (associate's degree or higher). So, let's assume that 'some college' is all people with an AA/AS, then we're looking at approximately 14.76% of people with an AA/AS or higher are vaccine hesitant. 14.76% of 42% = approximately 6.2% of Americans. This is in contrast to 20.8% of 58% of the population that don't have degrees, which is approximately 12.1% of Americans.

So, in terms of numbers, there are almost twice as many people without college degrees who are vaccine hesitant than there are people with some sort of college degree that are vaccine hesitant.

I think.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2021, 11:46:00 AM
Why 400?  The percentages in the graphic add up to 100... please explain
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 14, 2021, 11:46:44 AM
Unless you know the number of people in each of the groups in BT's chart, it is meaningless to add the percentages and reach any sort of conclusion. Since the chart is provided without context, it is impossible to make any statements about what it means.
For example, I am willing to bet that there are more people in the "High School or Less" category than in the "PhD" category, enough so that the lower percentage of HS actually represents more people than the higher percentage of PhD folk. But again, without the source data or a link to it, it is impossible to tell. 

The chart is meaningless.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2021, 11:50:59 AM
Ok... that probably holds true for most graphics flashed across the screen...

Here is the link to the original article...

https://unherd.com/thepost/the-most-vaccine-hesitant-education-group-of-all-phds/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 14, 2021, 12:40:26 PM
Why 400?  The percentages in the graphic add up to 100... please explain

Think about the inverse and maybe it will make it clearer.

11% of people with bachelor's degrees are vaccine hesitant. But what if we expressed this data as a percentage of each group that WASN'T vaccine hesitant? The graph would show 89%, 91.7%, 87.7% and 76.1%. If you use your method, if you added up the percentage of people who AREN'T vaccine hesitant (for those four groups), you get 344.5% who aren't vaccine hesitant. That's not possible, of course.

(Also, the numbers don't add up to 100 - or maybe I need to change the batteries in my calculator).

Another way of looking at it:

2 of 5 people (40%) of my family are male. 2 of 5 people (40%) of my wife's family are male. If you add the percentages up using your method, you'd say 80% of our family members are male. But no - you could say 80 of 200 (4 out of 10 combined) - or 40% total. Not 80 of 100.





Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2021, 01:36:18 PM
Why 400?  The percentages in the graphic add up to 100... please explain

Think about the inverse and maybe it will make it clearer.

11% of people with bachelor's degrees are vaccine hesitant. But what if we expressed this data as a percentage of each group that WASN'T vaccine hesitant? The graph would show 89%, 91.7%, 87.7% and 76.1%. If you use your method, if you added up the percentage of people who AREN'T vaccine hesitant (for those four groups), you get 344.5% who aren't vaccine hesitant. That's not possible, of course.

(Also, the numbers don't add up to 100 - or maybe I need to change the batteries in my calculator).

Another way of looking at it:

2 of 5 people (40%) of my family are male. 2 of 5 people (40%) of my wife's family are male. If you add the percentages up using your method, you'd say 80% of our family members are male. But no - you could say 80 of 200 (4 out of 10 combined) - or 40% total. Not 80 of 100.







Outstanding!!  I certainly appreciate the math lesson! I  assure you that I am vaccinated and NOT hesitant...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 14, 2021, 01:40:19 PM
Why 400?  The percentages in the graphic add up to 100... please explain

Think about the inverse and maybe it will make it clearer.

11% of people with bachelor's degrees are vaccine hesitant. But what if we expressed this data as a percentage of each group that WASN'T vaccine hesitant? The graph would show 89%, 91.7%, 87.7% and 76.1%. If you use your method, if you added up the percentage of people who AREN'T vaccine hesitant (for those four groups), you get 344.5% who aren't vaccine hesitant. That's not possible, of course.

(Also, the numbers don't add up to 100 - or maybe I need to change the batteries in my calculator).

Another way of looking at it:

2 of 5 people (40%) of my family are male. 2 of 5 people (40%) of my wife's family are male. If you add the percentages up using your method, you'd say 80% of our family members are male. But no - you could say 80 of 200 (4 out of 10 combined) - or 40% total. Not 80 of 100.







Outstanding!!  I certainly appreciate the math lesson! I  assure you that I am vaccinated and NOT hesitant...

Me too. Well, I am hesitant about mixing too much with people because I have only *so much* confidence in this vaccine stopping the delta variant!
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2021, 04:31:14 PM
Me too... went out for dinner last night early... by the time we left I felt like I had bugs crawling on me... ugh.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 15, 2021, 04:52:29 AM
Me too... went out for dinner last night early... by the time we left I felt like I had bugs crawling on me... ugh.

Yeah, I get the sniffles or a slightly scratchy throat and start wondering whether I should order a test. However, both of my kids were sick recently and had negative tests - so it goes to show that you can still get sick these days and it can be your garden variety cold.

A little over a month ago, my wife was deathly ill. She clearly had COVID Delta symptoms, so we ordered a test. It was negative. But she ended up in hospital for a week with bacterial meningitis! She's okay now - and we've no idea how she got that. Which is a bit troubling - we've done our best to avoid public places, etc unless absolutely necessary and she gets meningitis. I guess anything's possible and you're only ever so safe, really.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 15, 2021, 08:22:11 AM
This looks to be a better chart of the vaccination demographics...

(https://i1.wp.com/d24fkeqntp1r7r.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/12155036/across-most-subgroups-at-least-half-report-receiving-a-covid-19-vaccine.png?resize=840%2C1166&ssl=1)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 15, 2021, 12:32:23 PM
And one thing these graphs always show is that most people are pro vaccine.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on August 16, 2021, 10:35:33 AM

If pro and anti are nothing but the overly simplistic notion of "ya got one", then ya.

But the real world ain't that simple.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 16, 2021, 12:01:31 PM
Whole lotta people paying the ultimate price for what?

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/education/2021/08/16/river-city-science-academy-teacher-nicole-hollis-dies-covid-19/8148944002/?csp=chromepush

From the article: "River City Science Academy, a charter school, does not publish how many COVID-19 cases are impacting students or faculty."   Hmmmmm.. The irony here is thick. A science academy? 
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 16, 2021, 12:48:22 PM

If pro and anti are nothing but the overly simplistic notion of "ya got one", then ya.

But the real world ain't that simple.

But in terms of end result, it is that simple.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on August 16, 2021, 02:40:45 PM

If pro and anti are nothing but the overly simplistic notion of "ya got one", then ya.

But the real world ain't that simple.

But in terms of end result, it is that simple.

Hmmmmm.....I feel like Nancy Reagan had you mind in that one famous public health campaign of hers.



In other news

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/nyregion/covid-vaccine-black-young-new-yorkers.html

Why Only 28 Percent of Young Black New Yorkers Are VaccinatedZ




BTW- Odd how many posts there are here recently and no comment on the 20% reduction in new cases in Duval.       
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 16, 2021, 03:48:56 PM
You have anti-vaxxers -- true (non-)believers -- and then you have the vaccine hesitant. The KEF graphic BT posted suggests we may be able to get close to herd immunity (an admittedly moving target) if we can overcome hesitancy and encourage more widespread requirements (or "near-requirements," where the available workarounds are effective disincentives to remain unvaccinated). We've picked the low-to-medium hanging fruit, now we need to solve for what "wait and see" means to people. What are they waiting for? How can we accomplish those things more quickly or answer those lingering questions to their satisfaction?

The graphic, combined with the emerging news stories such as bl8's above, also suggest that painting the unvaccinated in broad strokes--ignorant, stubborn, selfish, Republican, white, rural, yadda yadda--is misguided. Even if many-to-most of the unvaccinated fit that description, it isn't even close to being universally true. We cannot overcome hesitancy without understanding the reasons for that hesitancy. For example, you could cite distrust in the government as one reason for hesitancy -- but a 50 year old white male in rural Florida may have an entirely different reason for his mistrust than a 21 year old black man in New York. Bombarding people with messaging that fails to address their personal concerns ranges from non-productive to counter-productive.

I don't think that's a revelatory observation; solving for it is simply difficult to accomplish quickly and en masse when you realize the complex and nuanced makeup of the unvaccinated population.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 16, 2021, 03:50:05 PM

If pro and anti are nothing but the overly simplistic notion of "ya got one", then ya.

But the real world ain't that simple.

But in terms of end result, it is that simple.

Hmmmmm.....I feel like Nancy Reagan had you mind in that one famous public health campaign of hers.



In other news

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/nyregion/covid-vaccine-black-young-new-yorkers.html

Why Only 28 Percent of Young Black New Yorkers Are VaccinatedZ




BTW- Odd how many posts there are here recently and no comment on the 20% reduction in new cases in Duval.     

You can quibble whether or not someone is 'pro' vaccine all you want - my point is that the infographic makes it clear that the majority of each group are either vaccinated or planning on getting vaccinated. So when I said most people are 'pro vaccine' that's what I meant.

But yeah, you got me.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 16, 2021, 03:52:06 PM
You have anti-vaxxers -- true (non-)believers -- and then you have the vaccine hesitant. The KEF graphic BT posted suggests we may be able to get close to herd immunity (an admittedly moving target) if we can overcome hesitancy and encourage more widespread requirements (or "near-requirements," where the available workarounds are effective disincentives to remain unvaccinated). We've picked the low-to-medium hanging fruit, now we need to solve for what "wait and see" means to people. What are they waiting for? How can we accomplish those things more quickly or answer those lingering questions to their satisfaction?

The graphic, combined with the emerging news stories such as bl8's above, also suggest that painting the unvaccinated in broad strokes--ignorant, stubborn, selfish, Republican, white, rural, yadda yadda--is misguided. Even if many-to-most of the unvaccinated fit that description, it isn't even close to being universally true. We cannot overcome hesitancy without understanding the reasons for that hesitancy. For example, you could cite distrust in the government as one reason for hesitancy -- but a 50 year old white male in rural Florida may have an entirely different reason for his mistrust than a 21 year old black man in New York. Bombarding people with messaging that fails to address their personal concerns ranges from non-productive to counter-productive.

I don't think that's a revelatory observation; solving for it is simply difficult to accomplish quickly and en masse when you realize the complex and nuanced makeup of the unvaccinated population.

As an aside, I've seen a number of scientists state there is no chance of herd immunity with this variant, regardless of how many people get vaccinated. I guess, of course, that depends on the vaccines. We could probably get new ones that might change that. But given the relatively low efficacy of these vaccines against this variant, herd immunity is not going to happen.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 16, 2021, 04:47:54 PM
We can blame the supposed inability of reaching herd immunity on selfish ego-maniacs, right wingers, evangelical morons, and the needle shy wimperers.  You can say whatever, but that is the truth.  Had everyone rolled-up their sleeves early on and got the vaccine, we wouldn't have the conversation we have now.  Quit talking about these sensitive whiners' right to choose, and think of it as stopping a pandemic.  Where would we be now had we had this sort of wimpy thinking back in Colonial America?  Would we have patriots to dump the tea in Boston Harbor and a militia to stop the red coats?  I think not.  This not me, I'm special, attitude is why it maybe too late.  We are rotting from the inside out.  I wouldn't want to trust our rights and freedoms with any of these anti vaxers no matter what their excuse.  Narrow minded wussies.  Shameful.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 16, 2021, 05:13:14 PM
Where would we be if the anti-vaxxers (of whatever motivation) were around in the 1950s when Dr. Salk's vaccine came out?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 16, 2021, 05:28:33 PM
We would still be ravaged by polio.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 16, 2021, 05:44:24 PM
We can blame the supposed inability of reaching herd immunity on selfish ego-maniacs, right wingers, evangelical morons, and the needle shy wimperers.  You can say whatever, but that is the truth.  Had everyone rolled-up their sleeves early on and got the vaccine, we wouldn't have the conversation we have now.  Quit talking about these sensitive whiners' right to choose, and think of it as stopping a pandemic.  Where would we be now had we had this sort of wimpy thinking back in Colonial America?  Would we have patriots to dump the tea in Boston Harbor and a militia to stop the red coats?  I think not.  This not me, I'm special, attitude is why it maybe too late.  We are rotting from the inside out.  I wouldn't want to trust our rights and freedoms with any of these anti vaxers no matter what their excuse.  Narrow minded wussies.  Shameful.

Hmmm... you are starting to sound like a Reagan republican...lol...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 16, 2021, 07:11:31 PM
We can blame the supposed inability of reaching herd immunity on selfish ego-maniacs, right wingers, evangelical morons, and the needle shy wimperers.  You can say whatever, but that is the truth.  Had everyone rolled-up their sleeves early on and got the vaccine, we wouldn't have the conversation we have now.  Quit talking about these sensitive whiners' right to choose, and think of it as stopping a pandemic.  Where would we be now had we had this sort of wimpy thinking back in Colonial America?  Would we have patriots to dump the tea in Boston Harbor and a militia to stop the red coats?  I think not.  This not me, I'm special, attitude is why it maybe too late.  We are rotting from the inside out.  I wouldn't want to trust our rights and freedoms with any of these anti vaxers no matter what their excuse.  Narrow minded wussies.  Shameful.

So we basically agree that everyone should be vaccinated, more mitigation measures should be put in place, and the politicization of the pandemic is a betrayal of public office, right? 

I just don't see the point of relitigating this issue as if we're starting from a blank slate, because it won't change a thing. The unfortunate reality before us is the combination of the following: people have rights, even to do (or not do) things detrimental to themselves and society; we are not in a practical position to both rapidly and legally deprive them of those rights; whether there is good cause for their resistance to common sense or not, it exists -- and it exists among a much more diverse group than you seem willing to admit; and our leaders are not taking all possible steps to eliminate that resistance. I'm mad too, but if you think being mad and name calling will do anything to change that reality, you're wrong -- but I hope you feel better.

For my part, I hope our leaders take all steps within their legal authority to get your "bottom-feeding", "moron[ic]", "selfish wimperers" over the hump and into the vaccinated camp. There is plenty of room for both more carrot and stick to be applied within the bounds of the law. Full FDA approval would help the defense against legal challenges (another inevitable reality we can't name-call away), and I hope it comes quickly.

As far as the Revolution, or the 1950s, or whatever -- it's a different time. For a very long time now, we've chosen to identify ourselves by our differences (sexual orientation, race, politics, gender, religion, etc.) to the exclusion of our commonalities (American, and the responsibilities of being free). Root-causing that is an entirely different thread topic.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 16, 2021, 07:19:31 PM
We can blame the supposed inability of reaching herd immunity on selfish ego-maniacs, right wingers, evangelical morons, and the needle shy wimperers.  You can say whatever, but that is the truth.  Had everyone rolled-up their sleeves early on and got the vaccine, we wouldn't have the conversation we have now.  Quit talking about these sensitive whiners' right to choose, and think of it as stopping a pandemic.  Where would we be now had we had this sort of wimpy thinking back in Colonial America?  Would we have patriots to dump the tea in Boston Harbor and a militia to stop the red coats?  I think not.  This not me, I'm special, attitude is why it maybe too late.  We are rotting from the inside out.  I wouldn't want to trust our rights and freedoms with any of these anti vaxers no matter what their excuse.  Narrow minded wussies.  Shameful.
I'm middle of the road.  To the right, I'm left. To the left, I'm right.  I'm for what is best for the country, not what's in it for me.  I grew up in a time of the draft-I volunteered.  We had TB, polio, chickenpox, mumps, and measles-things that ruined lives and killed.  We lined-up got our shots and stopped all of them.  Now we have a different mindset.  There is no draft, most people don't have to worry about polio, TB, or the others.  They have no sense of honor to do what is right.  They don't know what it is to pitch in.  Greedy, self centered, unaware of history.  I refuse to be kind to these cretins.  They are the draft dodgers, deserters, and misanthropes of my generation.  If only they were the only ones effected by their actions...

Hmmm... you are starting to sound like a Reagan republican...lol...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 16, 2021, 07:22:30 PM
We can blame the supposed inability of reaching herd immunity on selfish ego-maniacs, right wingers, evangelical morons, and the needle shy wimperers.  You can say whatever, but that is the truth.  Had everyone rolled-up their sleeves early on and got the vaccine, we wouldn't have the conversation we have now.  Quit talking about these sensitive whiners' right to choose, and think of it as stopping a pandemic.  Where would we be now had we had this sort of wimpy thinking back in Colonial America?  Would we have patriots to dump the tea in Boston Harbor and a militia to stop the red coats?  I think not.  This not me, I'm special, attitude is why it maybe too late.  We are rotting from the inside out.  I wouldn't want to trust our rights and freedoms with any of these anti vaxers no matter what their excuse.  Narrow minded wussies.  Shameful.

So we basically agree that everyone should be vaccinated, more mitigation measures should be put in place, and the politicization of the pandemic is a betrayal of public office, right? 

I just don't see the point of relitigating this issue as if we're starting from a blank slate, because it won't change a thing. The unfortunate reality before us is the combination of the following: people have rights, even to do (or not do) things detrimental to themselves and society; we are not in a practical position to both rapidly and legally deprive them of those rights; whether there is good cause for their resistance to common sense or not, it exists -- and it exists among a much more diverse group than you seem willing to admit; and our leaders are not taking all possible steps to eliminate that resistance. I'm mad too, but if you think being mad and name calling will do anything to change that reality, you're wrong -- but I hope you feel better.

For my part, I hope our leaders take all steps within their legal authority to get your "bottom-feeding", "moron[ic]", "selfish wimperers" over the hump and into the vaccinated camp. There is plenty of room for both more carrot and stick to be applied within the bounds of the law. Full FDA approval would help the defense against legal challenges (another inevitable reality we can't name-call away), and I hope it comes quickly.

As far as the Revolution, or the 1950s, or whatever -- it's a different time. For a very long time now, we've chosen to identify ourselves by our differences (sexual orientation, race, politics, gender, religion, etc.) to the exclusion of our commonalities (American, and the responsibilities of being free). Root-causing that is an entirely different thread topic.
My carrot and stick would be no vacccine, no entry to public places, airlines, travel, etc.  Maybe a big A to be worn in public that means Asshole.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 16, 2021, 07:31:43 PM
As far as time changing as to the Revolution and the 50s- All I can say is we still believe in right to bear arms, but we now have a standing, professional military.  Fads change, the fact that we come to the aid of our country doesn't.  What was done successfully in the 50s shouldn't be discounted because it's old.  I'll always believe that what works never goes out of style.  We're not talking about bell bottoms, and 8 tracks. 
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on August 16, 2021, 10:24:03 PM
DCPS case count for the first 5 days of school.

Day 1:   2
Day 2:   6
Day 3:   18
Day 4:   41
Day 5:   222
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 16, 2021, 11:26:56 PM
Is this cumulative, or new cases each day?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on August 16, 2021, 11:41:23 PM
Cumulative.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: WarDamJagFan on August 17, 2021, 05:11:42 AM
We can blame the supposed inability of reaching herd immunity on selfish ego-maniacs, right wingers, evangelical morons, and the needle shy wimperers.  You can say whatever, but that is the truth.  Had everyone rolled-up their sleeves early on and got the vaccine, we wouldn't have the conversation we have now.  Quit talking about these sensitive whiners' right to choose, and think of it as stopping a pandemic.  Where would we be now had we had this sort of wimpy thinking back in Colonial America?  Would we have patriots to dump the tea in Boston Harbor and a militia to stop the red coats?  I think not.  This not me, I'm special, attitude is why it maybe too late.  We are rotting from the inside out.  I wouldn't want to trust our rights and freedoms with any of these anti vaxers no matter what their excuse.  Narrow minded wussies.  Shameful.

So we basically agree that everyone should be vaccinated, more mitigation measures should be put in place, and the politicization of the pandemic is a betrayal of public office, right? 

I just don't see the point of relitigating this issue as if we're starting from a blank slate, because it won't change a thing. The unfortunate reality before us is the combination of the following: people have rights, even to do (or not do) things detrimental to themselves and society; we are not in a practical position to both rapidly and legally deprive them of those rights; whether there is good cause for their resistance to common sense or not, it exists -- and it exists among a much more diverse group than you seem willing to admit; and our leaders are not taking all possible steps to eliminate that resistance. I'm mad too, but if you think being mad and name calling will do anything to change that reality, you're wrong -- but I hope you feel better.

For my part, I hope our leaders take all steps within their legal authority to get your "bottom-feeding", "moron[ic]", "selfish wimperers" over the hump and into the vaccinated camp. There is plenty of room for both more carrot and stick to be applied within the bounds of the law. Full FDA approval would help the defense against legal challenges (another inevitable reality we can't name-call away), and I hope it comes quickly.

As far as the Revolution, or the 1950s, or whatever -- it's a different time. For a very long time now, we've chosen to identify ourselves by our differences (sexual orientation, race, politics, gender, religion, etc.) to the exclusion of our commonalities (American, and the responsibilities of being free). Root-causing that is an entirely different thread topic.
My carrot and stick would be no vacccine, no entry to public places, airlines, travel, etc.  Maybe a big A to be worn in public that means Asshole.

Nothing more wimpy and narrow-minded than screaming like a petulant child behind their keyboard at the injustice of those who haven't submitted to the same world-view of your own still having the right to walk outside their own front door.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 17, 2021, 06:17:32 AM
We can blame the supposed inability of reaching herd immunity on selfish ego-maniacs, right wingers, evangelical morons, and the needle shy wimperers.  You can say whatever, but that is the truth.  Had everyone rolled-up their sleeves early on and got the vaccine, we wouldn't have the conversation we have now.  Quit talking about these sensitive whiners' right to choose, and think of it as stopping a pandemic.  Where would we be now had we had this sort of wimpy thinking back in Colonial America?  Would we have patriots to dump the tea in Boston Harbor and a militia to stop the red coats?  I think not.  This not me, I'm special, attitude is why it maybe too late.  We are rotting from the inside out.  I wouldn't want to trust our rights and freedoms with any of these anti vaxers no matter what their excuse.  Narrow minded wussies.  Shameful.

So we basically agree that everyone should be vaccinated, more mitigation measures should be put in place, and the politicization of the pandemic is a betrayal of public office, right? 

I just don't see the point of relitigating this issue as if we're starting from a blank slate, because it won't change a thing. The unfortunate reality before us is the combination of the following: people have rights, even to do (or not do) things detrimental to themselves and society; we are not in a practical position to both rapidly and legally deprive them of those rights; whether there is good cause for their resistance to common sense or not, it exists -- and it exists among a much more diverse group than you seem willing to admit; and our leaders are not taking all possible steps to eliminate that resistance. I'm mad too, but if you think being mad and name calling will do anything to change that reality, you're wrong -- but I hope you feel better.

For my part, I hope our leaders take all steps within their legal authority to get your "bottom-feeding", "moron[ic]", "selfish wimperers" over the hump and into the vaccinated camp. There is plenty of room for both more carrot and stick to be applied within the bounds of the law. Full FDA approval would help the defense against legal challenges (another inevitable reality we can't name-call away), and I hope it comes quickly.

As far as the Revolution, or the 1950s, or whatever -- it's a different time. For a very long time now, we've chosen to identify ourselves by our differences (sexual orientation, race, politics, gender, religion, etc.) to the exclusion of our commonalities (American, and the responsibilities of being free). Root-causing that is an entirely different thread topic.
My carrot and stick would be no vacccine, no entry to public places, airlines, travel, etc.  Maybe a big A to be worn in public that means Asshole.

Nothing more wimpy and narrow-minded than screaming like a petulant child behind their keyboard at the injustice of those who haven't submitted to the same world-view of your own still having the right to walk outside their own front door.

Yeah, that's *totally* what just happened there. Good one.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/SEQUcfikyuvQY/source.gif)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 17, 2021, 07:31:57 AM
"I'd rather argue with a hundred idiots, than have one agree with me."
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on August 17, 2021, 08:55:29 AM
Enough.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 17, 2021, 03:56:22 PM
Just learned a child in my granddaughter's class has tested positive for Covid.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 17, 2021, 05:34:53 PM
Just learned a child in my granddaughter's class has tested positive for Covid.

I had a similar thing about a month ago. I was visiting my wife in hospital and we got an email saying a kid in my son's class had tested positive on the weekend - but that my son wasn't in close contact, so he didn't need to do anything. That was ludicrous - they don't sit at the same table in the room, but the kid sat at the table next to his (the same table my son's best friend sits at). And they all breathe the same air and mix together and play together outside. So I immediately left the hospital and took my son out of school. It used to be that the entire year was treated as a 'bubble' and if one kid in the year tested positive, the entire year had to stay home for two weeks. Then the government changed its advice.

He managed to stay COVID-free for the remaining week or two of school. On the downside, our cases are going up and I expect that things will be much worse when he returns to school in September (and when my wife and I return to the office one day a week). I am not looking forward to that at all...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 18, 2021, 06:52:09 AM
I'm hearing from someone on the inside of the health insurance business that unvaccinated insured customers may be limited in Covid treatment coverage...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Josh on August 18, 2021, 09:47:01 AM
I'm hearing from someone on the inside of the health insurance business that unvaccinated insured customers may be limited in Covid treatment coverage...

The flood gates are going to open in a lot of aspects once the vaccines have full FDA approval.

The median cost of COVID treatment in the hospital is over $70k, and right now 1 in 813 Jaxsons are being hospitalized.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 18, 2021, 12:29:40 PM
Here's an analogy I'm sure several here will disagree with, but here goes.  I think of those who refuse to be vaccinated much like those who refuse to have their animals vaccinated for rabies.  How would you feel if your child, spouse, or loved one was bitten and contracted rabies from a dog your neighbor neglected to have vaccinated?  I feel the same way about those who allow Covid to spread, mutate, and hang around because of their feelings.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 18, 2021, 01:44:11 PM
Here's an analogy I'm sure several here will disagree with, but here goes.  I think of those who refuse to be vaccinated much like those who refuse to have their animals vaccinated for rabies.  How would you feel if your child, spouse, or loved one was bitten and contracted rabies from a dog your neighbor neglected to have vaccinated?  I feel the same way about those who allow Covid to spread, mutate, and hang around because of their feelings.

I think it's weird that no one ever complains about 'no shirt, no shoes, no service' but somehow requiring a mask is a major human rights issue.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 19, 2021, 11:07:01 AM
Just found out my 8 year old granddaughter has tested positive for Covid. Drat!
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 19, 2021, 04:43:46 PM
Just found out my 8 year old granddaughter has tested positive for Covid. Drat!

That's awful... is she ok?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 19, 2021, 04:56:39 PM
Found this interesting...

(https://jabberwocking.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/blog_vaccination_race.jpg)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: thelakelander on August 19, 2021, 07:06:02 PM
^Not surprising at all. There's a lot of historical mistrust that the Black community has with public agencies. Familiar with horror stories like the decades long Tuskegee Experiment? There's a lot of misinformation flying around out there in a community that already doesn't trust entities that have historically screwed it over.

Quote
D.C.’s Howard University is working to address vaccine hesitancy through a new campaign focused on the descendants of the Tuskegee Experiment.

Between the 1930s and 1970s, hundreds of Black men were subjected to a U.S. study of untreated Syphilis, conducted in Tuskegee, Alabama.

“Our uncles and fathers and grandfathers were victims of that study,” said Omar Neal, nephew of one of the men in the study. Neal, who formerly served as Tuskegee mayor, has decided to speak out alongside other descendants as part of a public awareness effort.

Dr. Reed Tuckson, who cofounded the Black Coalition Against COVID-19 and is a Howard trustee, joined the campaign started by AdCouncil, COVID Collaborative and Joy Collective. Howard University hosted a panel discussion and screening of the new short documentary titled “Tuskegee Legacy Stories.”

https://wtop.com/dc/2021/08/descendants-of-the-tuskegee-study-join-howard-university-for-vaccine-campaign/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 19, 2021, 07:30:07 PM
I am certainly aware of Tuskegee but it was decades ago and the current vaccination efforts include all races, genders, etc... I  was simply adding more data to the demographics of the unvaccinated...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 19, 2021, 09:06:13 PM
Just found out my 8 year old granddaughter has tested positive for Covid. Drat!

That's awful... is she ok?
She is early on.  Has shortness of breath and a fever, sore throat.  She has a 5 year old brother who attends same school (Cornerstone Academy) we have our fingers crossed.  Their entire household is on quarantine.  Thanks for asking BT.  Hope it doesn't spread to the entire school.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 20, 2021, 06:51:55 AM
Just found out my 8 year old granddaughter has tested positive for Covid. Drat!

That's awful... is she ok?
She is early on.  Has shortness of breath and a fever, sore throat.  She has a 5 year old brother who attends same school (Cornerstone Academy) we have our fingers crossed.  Their entire household is on quarantine.  Thanks for asking BT.  Hope it doesn't spread to the entire school.
Hopefully the adults in the house are vaccinated... gotta be scary stuff...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 20, 2021, 07:46:21 AM
Morning report:  509 adults hospitalized, 121 in ICU, that's just Baptist Hospital system. Not counting kids...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on August 20, 2021, 08:05:57 AM
Here's an analogy I'm sure several here will disagree with, but here goes.  I think of those who refuse to be vaccinated much like those who refuse to have their animals vaccinated for rabies.  How would you feel if your child, spouse, or loved one was bitten and contracted rabies from a dog your neighbor neglected to have vaccinated?  I feel the same way about those who allow Covid to spread, mutate, and hang around because of their feelings.

I think it's weird that no one ever complains about 'no shirt, no shoes, no service' but somehow requiring a mask is a major human rights issue.

What is even worse is that while people decry a temporary emergency measure on masks, they don't care, and even may not be aware of permanent changes in laws nationwide to make voting (the FIRST and most important right of all) harder, more limited and subject to being thrown out by state legislatures.  THAT is what we should all be worried about.   
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Steve on August 20, 2021, 10:40:42 AM
Morning report:  509 adults hospitalized, 121 in ICU, that's just Baptist Hospital system. Not counting kids...

Those were yesterday's numbers. Kid numbers yesterday were 16/4 ICU.

For today:
Adults: 503 Admitted/111 ICU/52 Yesterday
Children: 9 Admitted/5 ICU/1 Yesterday

Of note that's a drop but in most categories, but 1 day isn't yet statistically significant.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: thelakelander on August 20, 2021, 10:49:51 AM
I am certainly aware of Tuskegee but it was decades ago and the current vaccination efforts include all races, genders, etc... I  was simply adding more data to the demographics of the unvaccinated...

Yes, I was just sharing an example of something historical that has contributed to a lack of trust in a cultural population, that spills out when it comes to things like current  low vaccination rates in the Black community. There's a lot of mistrust and the reasons are different from the Trump and DeSantis thumpers. I'm hearing this from friends and family in the community that I grew up in. Crazy to me but unfortunately true for friends who are hospitalized with COVID now.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on August 20, 2021, 04:07:08 PM
The city of Orlando is asking residents to reduce water consumption IMMEDIATELY. Liquid oxygen used to treat water is being diverted to the hospitals to treat COVID patients. They believe if water consumption doesn’t change, water treatment could hit a critical point in a week.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on August 20, 2021, 04:45:20 PM
^Yet another way the unvaccinated are ruining everything.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on August 20, 2021, 04:51:37 PM
For generations we have treated viruses with anti viral drugs.     We should stop acting as though vaccinations is the only way to end this virus.

Is this what you had in mind?

(https://preview.redd.it/7snmdl97o5i71.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e28593c40c1418a35093598cce0ae9f64725dfd2)
Regeneron Clinic at the Jacksonville Main Library (now closed to library patrons).
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: thelakelander on August 20, 2021, 05:08:11 PM
I haven't been following this as close. Why is this operation at the public library?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 20, 2021, 05:14:36 PM
I don't know that a reason has been given publicly. My guess is that it is a centrally located public building that has the available space. Having a separate entrance for the clinic is probably a plus.

And, Ron probably called Lenny and said "Make it happen. Now."
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on August 20, 2021, 05:24:44 PM
It's a bad place for it. Another public asset taken over by this nonsense.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: tufsu1 on August 20, 2021, 05:31:00 PM
Morning report:  509 adults hospitalized, 121 in ICU, that's just Baptist Hospital system. Not counting kids...

Those were yesterday's numbers. Kid numbers yesterday were 16/4 ICU.

For today:
Adults: 503 Admitted/111 ICU/52 Yesterday
Children: 9 Admitted/5 ICU/1 Yesterday

Of note that's a drop but in most categories, but 1 day isn't yet statistically significant.

correct - the high was 584 on August 9th

Check out www.covidestim.org - it has some great info. in easy to understand graphics - and the good news is there's been a significant drop in Duval infections - the replication factor is a key statistic.

UPDATE - DOH reports weekly positive cases in Duval County are down 38% over the past 3 weeks.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: JeffreyS on August 21, 2021, 11:03:17 AM
So much suffering as our Governor concentrates on preserving peoples right to spread the disease and punishing school officials concerned with safety.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 23, 2021, 09:57:14 AM
Good to know DeSantis has evolved into a Pro Choice Governor.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 23, 2021, 12:22:39 PM
Things could get interesting fast now that the FDA has given full approval to the Pfizer vaccine. Speculation is everywhere that this will open the door to many private employers requiring employees (and potentially customers) to be vaccinated. Will DeSantis continue to fight the "vaccine passport" battle as more and more national/multinational employers with a presence in Florida jump on the vaccine mandate bandwagon? Does the political calculus work in his favor when he starts picking fights with major employers?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on August 23, 2021, 03:31:45 PM
The Navy will require it now so that should force quite a few Jacksonville residents to get it.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on August 23, 2021, 10:06:00 PM
Duval County school board officially adopted a mask mandate tonight. Exceptions require medical documentation.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 24, 2021, 07:44:21 AM
Duval County school board officially adopted a mask mandate tonight. Exceptions require medical documentation.
Hooray!
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Steve on August 24, 2021, 01:49:16 PM
Morning report:  509 adults hospitalized, 121 in ICU, that's just Baptist Hospital system. Not counting kids...

Those were yesterday's numbers. Kid numbers yesterday were 16/4 ICU.

For today:
Adults: 503 Admitted/111 ICU/52 Yesterday
Children: 9 Admitted/5 ICU/1 Yesterday

Of note that's a drop but in most categories, but 1 day isn't yet statistically significant.

Hospital numbers at Baptist further dropping for adults:

Adults: 472 Admitted/112 ICU/42 Admitted Yesterday
Children: 19 Admitted/5 ICU/5 Yesterday

Of note the children’s side has been holding steadily. Today is an increase from 8/20, but over the last week it’s been basically flat.

There are some positive signs, but all the more reason it was good of DCPS to do the mask requirement.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 24, 2021, 04:06:42 PM
Anyone have the count from the facility they set up at the main library?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on August 25, 2021, 11:28:16 AM
Anti virals are good, but they should not be promoted as an alternative to vaccination. They will not end the pandemic.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 25, 2021, 11:36:05 AM
For generations we have treated viruses with anti viral drugs.     We should stop acting as though vaccinations is the only way to end this virus.

Is this what you had in mind?

(https://preview.redd.it/7snmdl97o5i71.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e28593c40c1418a35093598cce0ae9f64725dfd2)
Regeneron Clinic at the Jacksonville Main Library (now closed to library patrons).



  How broken is your brain to think that somehow such a thing proves anything other than when people are sick, they want to lay down?

Again, developing and using anti virals is absolutely needed for dealing with any virus.  CV19 is no different.     It's all the more important because the so-called vaccinations do not work well.  Vaccinated people are getting CV19 infections and will need treatments, including antivirals,  to restore their health.
I don't understand how you can say, "vaccinations do not work well".  What do you know of that is preferable?  Even getting a breakthrough virus after vaccination has shown it to help prevent hospitalizations and ventilators.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 25, 2021, 12:44:51 PM
The data are overwhelming in their consensus that the vaccines are highly effective. They are as near to perfect as humanly possible at preventing death, highly effective at preventing hospitalization, and even against Delta are at least moderately effective at preventing symptomatic infection.

The only legitimate point of debate is how long they remain effective, but studies are emerging to clear up that issue as well.

To offer some perspective, the COVID vaccines are far more effective at preventing death from COVID-19 than seatbelts are at preventing death in car crashes. If the efficacy of the vaccine does not impress you, you may want to reconsider the point of buckling up when you go out and drive. If your concern is the safety of the vaccine, then statistically, you probably shouldn't drive at all--it's far more dangerous.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on August 25, 2021, 12:53:22 PM
The data are overwhelming in their consensus that the vaccines are highly effective. They are as near to perfect as humanly possible at preventing death, highly effective at preventing hospitalization, and even against Delta are at least moderately effective at preventing symptomatic infection.

The only legitimate point of debate is how long they remain effective, but studies are emerging to clear up that issue as well.

To offer some perspective, the COVID vaccines are far more effective at preventing death from COVID-19 than seatbelts are at preventing death in car crashes. If the efficacy of the vaccine does not impress you, you may want to reconsider the point of buckling up when you go out and drive. If your concern is the safety of the vaccine, then statistically, you probably shouldn't drive at all--it's far more dangerous.

This. I've removed a post from above containing (more) COVID misinformation. As I said before, this ain't the place.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on August 25, 2021, 07:13:13 PM
Thank you Tacachale.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on August 28, 2021, 04:05:55 PM
The data are overwhelming in their consensus that the vaccines are highly effective. They are as near to perfect as humanly possible at preventing death, highly effective at preventing hospitalization, and even against Delta are at least moderately effective at preventing symptomatic infection.

The only legitimate point of debate is how long they remain effective, but studies are emerging to clear up that issue as well.

To offer some perspective, the COVID vaccines are far more effective at preventing death from COVID-19 than seatbelts are at preventing death in car crashes. If the efficacy of the vaccine does not impress you, you may want to reconsider the point of buckling up when you go out and drive. If your concern is the safety of the vaccine, then statistically, you probably shouldn't drive at all--it's far more dangerous.

This. I've removed a post from above containing (more) COVID misinformation. As I said before, this ain't the place.


 What's happening in Israel is what is going to happen here this fall and winter.  Buckle up, you ain't going to like the ride.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 28, 2021, 04:35:34 PM
The data are overwhelming in their consensus that the vaccines are highly effective. They are as near to perfect as humanly possible at preventing death, highly effective at preventing hospitalization, and even against Delta are at least moderately effective at preventing symptomatic infection.

The only legitimate point of debate is how long they remain effective, but studies are emerging to clear up that issue as well.

To offer some perspective, the COVID vaccines are far more effective at preventing death from COVID-19 than seatbelts are at preventing death in car crashes. If the efficacy of the vaccine does not impress you, you may want to reconsider the point of buckling up when you go out and drive. If your concern is the safety of the vaccine, then statistically, you probably shouldn't drive at all--it's far more dangerous.

This. I've removed a post from above containing (more) COVID misinformation. As I said before, this ain't the place.


 What's happening in Israel is what is going to happen here this fall and winter.  Buckle up, you ain't going to like the ride.

Get vaccinated, wear a mask, social distance.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: tufsu1 on August 28, 2021, 10:17:18 PM
The data are overwhelming in their consensus that the vaccines are highly effective. They are as near to perfect as humanly possible at preventing death, highly effective at preventing hospitalization, and even against Delta are at least moderately effective at preventing symptomatic infection.

The only legitimate point of debate is how long they remain effective, but studies are emerging to clear up that issue as well.

To offer some perspective, the COVID vaccines are far more effective at preventing death from COVID-19 than seatbelts are at preventing death in car crashes. If the efficacy of the vaccine does not impress you, you may want to reconsider the point of buckling up when you go out and drive. If your concern is the safety of the vaccine, then statistically, you probably shouldn't drive at all--it's far more dangerous.

This. I've removed a post from above containing (more) COVID misinformation. As I said before, this ain't the place.

 What's happening in Israel is what is going to happen here this fall and winter.  Buckle up, you ain't going to like the ride.

that's a simplistic and not entirely correct view. I've been tracking Israel's situation for the better part of a year (my planned July 2020 trip to the Holy Land has now been rescheduled 3 times with a 4th reschedule still to come). Israel had issues with vaccine effectiveness waning, but they also have 15% of their adult population unvaccinated - and an overall population composition that is over 20% children under 12 (not eligible for vaccines).

Right now Israel has about 10,000 cases / day, which would be equivalent to the US having 400,000 cases. BUT that's with much more testing than we do, and a positivity rate that has yet to go above 7% (compare that with Florida's recent high of about 20%). Furthermore, they have about 700 patients in serious conditions at hospitals - that's much lower per 100k population that what we have in FL right now (with hospitalizations trending down). Also worth noting that serious cases among the vaccinated are declining (in part because of the boosters) while still going up for those unvaccinated.

Bottom line - the vaccines work - get the shot(s)!
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 28, 2021, 11:30:51 PM
The data are overwhelming in their consensus that the vaccines are highly effective. They are as near to perfect as humanly possible at preventing death, highly effective at preventing hospitalization, and even against Delta are at least moderately effective at preventing symptomatic infection.

The only legitimate point of debate is how long they remain effective, but studies are emerging to clear up that issue as well.

To offer some perspective, the COVID vaccines are far more effective at preventing death from COVID-19 than seatbelts are at preventing death in car crashes. If the efficacy of the vaccine does not impress you, you may want to reconsider the point of buckling up when you go out and drive. If your concern is the safety of the vaccine, then statistically, you probably shouldn't drive at all--it's far more dangerous.

This. I've removed a post from above containing (more) COVID misinformation. As I said before, this ain't the place.


 What's happening in Israel is what is going to happen here this fall and winter.  Buckle up, you ain't going to like the ride.

Even if that is true--how would fewer vaccinations make anything better? It's like asking the military to fight a war, but wait a minute, you can't use any planes!

We should be grateful for the efficacy our vaccines do have, even if they aren't completely perfect, because they are a great weapon in our arsenal of options to limit casualties.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on August 29, 2021, 05:36:50 AM
From what I understand, what is happening in Israel is likely the result of two things:

1) The decline in vaccine effectiveness over time. Israel was one of the first countries to vaccinate their population. They are 'lucky' enough to be experiencing a wave of the virus (courtesy of the Delta variant) at a time when the population's vaccination protection is waning.

2) The current vaccines we have aren't that good against the Delta variant - studies show a real world efficacy of about 50%. So more people are getting sick, even if they are vaccinated.

Now, what we do know about the vaccines is that even though they aren't very good at protecting against infection, they appear to be good at preventing hospitalisation and death. In the UK, our numbers of new cases are quite high - we are over 30K new cases daily, but our hospitalisations are around 5K and daily deaths are averaging about 100. I don't wish to downplay the deaths of anyone, but 100 deaths a day is nowhere near what we were seeing last year (or earlier this year when the Alpha variant was in ascendance).

Who knows that the US will experience in the autumn. But if large amounts of the population are just now being vaccinated, they may not experience the same sort of spike in cases as Israel is having now (as the population may be more recently vaccinated and have more protection).

But I cannot see how the experience of Israel would leave anyone with the idea that vaccinations are somehow a bad thing. The only real tools we have right now to battle the virus are vaccines and lockdowns. And I guess, casirivimab/imdevimab. So vaccinate as many people as possible, implement lockdowns or other 'social distancing' protocols when necessary and treat people with anti-COVID drugs when they get sick (when possible).
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on August 29, 2021, 09:30:43 AM
Stop with the facts already. The right wing hysteria is much more entertaining.  Like, were you aware, Joe Biden secretly negotiated the exit from Afghanistan last year while Trump was still in office? 

Any way, the only headlines I'm seeing is "right wing radio personality "  or "Local GOP leader".... "who mocked Covid dies from Covid."
It' sad but not surprising. You think they would have learned from Herman Cain. 

Like this:  https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/caleb-wallace-anti-mask-freedom-rally-organizer-dies-at-30-with-covid/ar-AANQY7H?li=BBnbfcL

Or this: https://www.thewrap.com/marc-bernier-anti-vax-radio-host-dies-from-covid-19/

I could put up dozens....


I mean 60 court cased thrown out but many still think the election was stolen. America is becoming a joke. "My Pillow Guy" is the punch line.


Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on August 30, 2021, 06:09:44 PM



 What's happening in Israel is what is going to happen here this fall and winter.  Buckle up, you ain't going to like the ride.

Even if that is true--how would fewer vaccinations make anything better?


----

Why such a childish view?  If someone doesn't praise something they oppose?  Please, please, please.  The level of logic and scientific illiteracy being shown around here is painful.

In no way shape or form is pointing out that half the patients in Israeli hospitals with Covid19 were vaccinated a statement FOR NOR AGAINST.  It's just a fact.   That's all.  It's like observing that gravity accelerates an object at 9.8m/s2.

I tell you fruit of the loom underwear are cheap and don't last long, that is NOT an argument against wearing underwear. 

These therapeutics have their limitations.  Seat belts have their limitations too.   I still use seat belts even though in some situations, they dno't make a difference.  I still use seat belts even though in other situations, they only mitigate the damage I'll suffer. 

 Seat belts are easy to use and pretty darn risk free.  I like seat belts.  I like the mRNA covi19 vaccinations.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on August 30, 2021, 08:32:34 PM



 What's happening in Israel is what is going to happen here this fall and winter.  Buckle up, you ain't going to like the ride.

Even if that is true--how would fewer vaccinations make anything better?


----

Why such a childish view?  If someone doesn't praise something they oppose?  Please, please, please.  The level of logic and scientific illiteracy being shown around here is painful.

In no way shape or form is pointing out that half the patients in Israeli hospitals with Covid19 were vaccinated a statement FOR NOR AGAINST.  It's just a fact.   That's all.  It's like observing that gravity accelerates an object at 9.8m/s2.

I tell you fruit of the loom underwear are cheap and don't last long, that is NOT an argument against wearing underwear. 

These therapeutics have their limitations.  Seat belts have their limitations too.   I still use seat belts even though in some situations, they dno't make a difference.  I still use seat belts even though in other situations, they only mitigate the damage I'll suffer. 

 Seat belts are easy to use and pretty darn risk free.  I like seat belts.  I like the mRNA covi19 vaccinations.

I'm not saying you're against vaccinations because you won't praise them. You explicitly said:
the so-called vaccinations do not work well.

I suggest you speak with yourself and straighten out your position on the matter. Meanwhile, save us the charade of pretending to "just be here sharing facts" when you yourself have belied your real position.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on August 30, 2021, 10:48:01 PM



 What's happening in Israel is what is going to happen here this fall and winter.  Buckle up, you ain't going to like the ride.

Even if that is true--how would fewer vaccinations make anything better?


----

Why such a childish view?  If someone doesn't praise something they oppose?  Please, please, please.  The level of logic and scientific illiteracy being shown around here is painful.

In no way shape or form is pointing out that half the patients in Israeli hospitals with Covid19 were vaccinated a statement FOR NOR AGAINST.  It's just a fact.   That's all.  It's like observing that gravity accelerates an object at 9.8m/s2.

I tell you fruit of the loom underwear are cheap and don't last long, that is NOT an argument against wearing underwear. 

These therapeutics have their limitations.  Seat belts have their limitations too.   I still use seat belts even though in some situations, they dno't make a difference.  I still use seat belts even though in other situations, they only mitigate the damage I'll suffer. 

 Seat belts are easy to use and pretty darn risk free.  I like seat belts.  I like the mRNA covi19 vaccinations.

I'm not saying you're against vaccinations because you won't praise them. You explicitly said:
the so-called vaccinations do not work well.

I suggest you speak with yourself and straighten out your position on the matter. Meanwhile, save us the charade of pretending to "just be here sharing facts" when you yourself have belied your real position.

Additionally, bl8rjax has made several posts that we've removed for being anti-vax or otherwise spreading COVID misinformation. Sorry, you don't get to be indignant when folks call you out.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 02, 2021, 10:27:16 AM
Long time reader...  ;D

I only have a single question that I haven't seen answered in the thread.

My personal context:
I am unvaxxed, but I was Covid + last year, and only found out during a check after one of our kids came home from school after a contact issue.

I have never had any Covid symptoms and still have ZERO plan on getting the shot.  No one in our house (5) have had symptoms worse than the common cold.  Once the vax became available, everyone else in my house got the shot except for the 5/yo and I'm honestly torn as to whether to allow her to get it once it becomes available.

Because I would have to make the assumption that there are millions like myself who have the anti-bodies and don't even know it.  Between the CV+ cases (known & unknown) are walking the streets and the amount of vaccines that have been distributed, we have to be getting a lot closer to that magical 'herd-immunity' number.

Question:
What is normal for you right now?

Are you staying home more? do you go out and mask up (with something more than a piece of fabric with elastic ear straps)? do you just avoid crowds?



Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 02, 2021, 10:39:37 AM
Long time reader...  ;D

I only have a single question that I haven't seen answered in the thread.

My personal context:
I am unvaxxed, but I was Covid + last year, and only found out during a check after one of our kids came home from school after a contact issue.

I have never had any Covid symptoms and still have ZERO plan on getting the shot.  No one in our house (5) have had symptoms worse than the common cold.  Once the vax became available, everyone else in my house got the shot except for the 5/yo and I'm honestly torn as to whether to allow her to get it once it becomes available.

Because I would have to make the assumption that there are millions like myself who have the anti-bodies and don't even know it.  Between the CV+ cases (known & unknown) are walking the streets and the amount of vaccines that have been distributed, we have to be getting a lot closer to that magical 'herd-immunity' number.

Question:
What is normal for you right now?

Are you staying home more? do you go out and mask up (with something more than a piece of fabric with elastic ear straps)? do you just avoid crowds?

I stay home more - I don't do much. If I have to go out, I wear a mask when indoors (or on public transport). I avoid crowds.

Now, whether or not you choose to get the vaccine is up to you. But, depending on when you had the virus, you likely are seeing a gradual reduction in antibodies (as you said it was last year). I'd get the vaccine if I were you.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on September 02, 2021, 10:54:09 AM
^To put my behavior in context, I had mild symptomatic COVID before I was eligible for a vaccine. Once I was eligible, I was vaccinated. At least one study has recently shown the combination of vaccination and natural immunity is stronger protection than vaccination alone against variants (obviously, that is not meant to suggest people should seek out natural immunity because of the inherent risks to self and society).

For me, I follow CDC guidelines. When they said masks were not required for vaccinated people, I stopped wearing one. When Delta hit, I started again. I do go out socially, but avoid packed indoor spaces. I'm not concerned for my own health, but I do not want to unknowingly spread an asymptomatic infection to someone who will fare far worse than I. I work from home now, so that alone significantly mitigates transmission.

Be aware that we are still learning about how long all forms of immunity last, and how effective they are against variants. Nothing is a guarantee--neither your natural immunity, nor vaccinations. But we do know the combination of both stimulates a stronger immune response, and that vaccines alone are still highly effective at preventing hospitalization and death. We also can't assume that because symptoms from one variant were mild or nonexistent that infection with a different variant will be equally as mild. But those are the risks you assume for yourself.

The trouble for me is I would be inconsolable if I knew that because I didn't take all reasonable precautions, I spread an infection to someone else. Breakthrough cases are happening in the elderly and the immunocompromised. They've done their part in being vaccinated, but they're vulnerable. I felt I owed it to them to take the stick and a few hours of discomfort. Could I still kill them? Yes, nothing is perfect. But I've done what I can. For being such a small inconvenience, "better safe than sorry" seems like the right approach in my opinion.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 02, 2021, 11:52:41 AM
Long time reader...  ;D

I only have a single question that I haven't seen answered in the thread.

My personal context:
I am unvaxxed, but I was Covid + last year, and only found out during a check after one of our kids came home from school after a contact issue.

I have never had any Covid symptoms and still have ZERO plan on getting the shot.  No one in our house (5) have had symptoms worse than the common cold.  Once the vax became available, everyone else in my house got the shot except for the 5/yo and I'm honestly torn as to whether to allow her to get it once it becomes available.

Because I would have to make the assumption that there are millions like myself who have the anti-bodies and don't even know it.  Between the CV+ cases (known & unknown) are walking the streets and the amount of vaccines that have been distributed, we have to be getting a lot closer to that magical 'herd-immunity' number.

Question:
What is normal for you right now?

Are you staying home more? do you go out and mask up (with something more than a piece of fabric with elastic ear straps)? do you just avoid crowds?





Hey NRW!  Where ya been?  To answer your question… am vaccinated… avoid crowds, and mask. Question for you…
Why ZERO intention to vaccinate?  Inquiring minds want to know…
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 02, 2021, 11:54:20 AM
Adam, I've recently considered getting an anti-body test.  Will likely happen this month, because I do hope to do some travelling during the NFL season.  Correct me if I'm mistaken, but from reading your posts on here for a few years, don't you have some medical concerns that would put you in more of a high-risk category, so you need to be a little more cautious.   I'm not normally much of a social person anyhow, so avoiding crowds isn't usually a huge deal, but the NFL season is here and I will be in close prox. to strangers for about 4 hours a week for 10 weeks.

jaxo,  I pretty much follow the guidelines as well and if requested to put on a mask, I do.  I haven't run into it yet, but if a place requires a vax card, I just won't go. 

With regards to the asymptomatic spreading, I've been pretty open with my circles, and if I know that I've been in contact with a + case, I just let them know that I have and it becomes their decision, not mine if I'm there.  I totally get that my decision to stay un-vaxxed doesn't trump their decision to not be around me.  I've been asked to not show up due to an admitted close contact.  It is what it is; personal freedoms and all.

But the bear of this entire 'pandemic' is as you mentioned - we're still learning so much about what works, what doesn't, how long, best course of action, etc. and the goalposts continue to move. 

To answer my own question, I'm pretty much back to living a normal life.  The few inconveniences are just that, small inconveniences, and I've done a pretty good job of not making mountains out of a molehills. 



Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 02, 2021, 12:04:35 PM
Hey NRW!  Where ya been?  To answer your question… am vaccinated… avoid crowds, and mask. Question for you…
Why ZERO intention to vaccinate?  Inquiring minds want to know…

I've just been busy and when things get hectic, socials are usually the first thing I cut out.  Still busy, but just hopped back in reading the threads a few weeks ago to see how things were going.

Zero intention because I have had a history of just having a pretty strong immunity to 'things' and don't usually catch the bugs and viruses that are out and about.  My SO was in health-care for the past 8 years, always had a required flu-shot, and always ended up with a fairly hefty case of crud 3-4 times a year.  For whatever reason, I just rarely get more than a drippy nose. 

All of my family has had pretty much the same when it comes to 'normal' viruses/bugs.

Other than that, I don't really have a good reason other than, 'if it's not broke, don't fix it'. 

If you couple that with the fact that I didn't 'catch anything' during my early twenties is amazing.  I'm not necessarily proud, but there's about a dozen and half time that don't know how I didn't need a shot of penicillin or two.   ;D
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 02, 2021, 02:31:54 PM
Hey NRW!  Where ya been?  To answer your question… am vaccinated… avoid crowds, and mask. Question for you…
Why ZERO intention to vaccinate?  Inquiring minds want to know…

I've just been busy and when things get hectic, socials are usually the first thing I cut out.  Still busy, but just hopped back in reading the threads a few weeks ago to see how things were going.

Zero intention because I have had a history of just having a pretty strong immunity to 'things' and don't usually catch the bugs and viruses that are out and about.  My SO was in health-care for the past 8 years, always had a required flu-shot, and always ended up with a fairly hefty case of crud 3-4 times a year.  For whatever reason, I just rarely get more than a drippy nose. 

All of my family has had pretty much the same when it comes to 'normal' viruses/bugs.

Other than that, I don't really have a good reason other than, 'if it's not broke, don't fix it'. 

If you couple that with the fact that I didn't 'catch anything' during my early twenties is amazing.  I'm not necessarily proud, but there's about a dozen and half time that don't know how I didn't need a shot of penicillin or two.   ;D
Ok... but I know of two others using similar logic... one dead and another with the dreaded "long haul" symptoms. Age... mid forties... decent health...

What do they say about a stock or fund... past performance does not predict future earnings...

Stay healthy my friend...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 02, 2021, 05:32:19 PM
Adam, I've recently considered getting an anti-body test.  Will likely happen this month, because I do hope to do some travelling during the NFL season.  Correct me if I'm mistaken, but from reading your posts on here for a few years, don't you have some medical concerns that would put you in more of a high-risk category, so you need to be a little more cautious.   I'm not normally much of a social person anyhow, so avoiding crowds isn't usually a huge deal, but the NFL season is here and I will be in close prox. to strangers for about 4 hours a week for 10 weeks.


No, all my medical concerns are mental health issues. Well, those and migraines.

I thought I got COVID in March of last year. Of course, it was before they had tests. It was just after lockdown and my wife got sick first and I got it a couple days later. It was mild - just a fairly high fever for a few days (and general malaise). And some initial body aches. A few days after the fever was gone, I lost my sense of smell for over a week. It was at that point that I wondered if I had actually had it.

Now, I was SUPER sick in December of 2019. Worst cough of my life (I pulled muscles in my chest), very high fever for a few days and a bit of nausea at first. And then I lost my senses of smell and taste for about a week. Of course, we didn't know about COVID then and it's likely that I didn't have it. So who knows - but the weird thing is that I've never lost my sense of smell before and I lost it twice in about four months.

My wife just took an antibody test and we're awaiting the results. She has been taking part in a COVID study (where she reports weekly on how she feels) and so she qualified to take part (they've not rolled out antibody tests for the general population in the UK yet). As soon as one is available, I'll take it.

It's not my place to pressure you to get the vaccine - but if you're planning on going to football games, I think you should just do it. You've pretty much got nothing to lose. The vaccines are safe and although they are a bit crap against the Delta variant, it still gives you about a 50-50 chance you won't get it. Sports events are kind of notorious for spreading the virus. We had a bunch of stories of vaccinated and non-vaccinated people getting COVID after the UEFA European Championship final at Wembley in July. And if nothing else, do it for your family.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 02, 2021, 10:53:58 PM
^ From what I understand, immunity from having had COVID is not as strong as that offered by the vaccine.  So, if you want maximum protection, you need to get the vaccine.  I know many who got COVID before the vaccine was available that followed up with the vaccine for this reason. 

It's not just about spreading it to others either.  It's about increasing the odds greatly that you don't end up in the hospital or with severe symptoms if you get COVID a second or more times which is entirely possible due to reduced immunity, your own unique issues and/or new mutations (just like there are breakthroughs for the vaccine immunity).

To me its an easy call.  There is nothing good about getting COVID whether its immediate severe health issues, long COVID or latent impacts (e.g. heart, brain, etc.) to your health later in life that are yet to be fully understood.  The vaccines are far better bets for your health and, after probably over a billion doses, clearly have a miniscule risk.  I also note that while the vaccines were only "recently" targeted toward COVID, the underlying development technology has been proven over many years and is well researched and studied.  It's one reason they were so widely endorsed early on.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on September 03, 2021, 08:50:46 AM
Many people who refuse to get the vaccine think only in the terms of me, I, my.  They don't think of family, friends, and others they may come in contact with.  People that think this way need to change their mindset.  We will never get over this pandemic until everyone pitches in and does what is good for our society as a whole.  Thinking that you have great genes, immunity, are healthy, etc., will come back to haunt many.  I read about them everyday.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 03, 2021, 10:51:37 AM
Many people who refuse to get the vaccine think only in the terms of me, I, my.  They don't think of family, friends, and others they may come in contact with.  People that think this way need to change their mindset.  We will never get over this pandemic until everyone pitches in and does what is good for our society as a whole.  Thinking that you have great genes, immunity, are healthy, etc., will come back to haunt many.  I read about them everyday.

Possibly… but NRW doesn’t fit in the selfish meme you are referring to. I respect his choice.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 03, 2021, 11:22:45 AM
Many people who refuse to get the vaccine think only in the terms of me, I, my.  They don't think of family, friends, and others they may come in contact with.  People that think this way need to change their mindset.  We will never get over this pandemic until everyone pitches in and does what is good for our society as a whole.  Thinking that you have great genes, immunity, are healthy, etc., will come back to haunt many.  I read about them everyday.

Possibly… but NRW doesn’t fit in the selfish meme you are referring to. I respect his choice.

Thanks, but you're both right in a sense. (Edit) Right because I am refusing it for me, I, my reasons.  But you'd be incorrect to assume that those reasons have any political, YT scientific, or conspiracy theory reasoning behind it.  It's really as simple as I hardly ever get sick even with direct exposure to viruses/flu/etc that courses through a house that has a person who works in healthcare and 3 kids in 3 different schools. (/Edit)

Carrying a viral load is no different if you're vaxxed or not, especially if you're asymptomatic, so in the sense of infecting others, there's not really a difference between the two.

The biggest concern for my family and I, as BT mentioned, is that by the time I realize I'm wrong, I'll be in the process of being admitted into the hospital and having to face an uncertain future as well as the stereotyping for my 'choice'.

Just get the Vax!  Well, again, I don't doubt that it's safe*, and I have zero issue with putting stuff in my body that I know isn't good for me, but my personal decision is that my system has done wonders over the 45 years I've been around, and I honestly don't want to screw with it. 

I would never tell anyone how to handle their own business when it comes to this, simply: your body; your choice.

I won't have much else to offer on the subject for another couple weeks.  The Spike protein test is set for the end of next week to determine where I'm at on the scale of immunity. 

Because you have to understand - I've already been + and was asymptomatic then.  There's no telling how many times or not that I've had it since, because I haven't had symptoms.  I could honestly be + now and not even know it, so I think this is the best way for ME (us because I'm responsible to my family) to move forward. 



 
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 03, 2021, 11:38:29 AM
^ From what I understand, immunity from having had COVID is not as strong as that offered by the vaccine. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v5VrpgXPm4
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 03, 2021, 12:53:07 PM
^ From what I understand, immunity from having had COVID is not as strong as that offered by the vaccine. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v5VrpgXPm4

OK, I watched this.  No need to reinvent the wheel, I will just share below some of the comments to the video posted to indicate my response.

Quote
It hasn’t been thoroughly peer-reviewed yet, but you seem to trust it without skepticism. Let me guess, the study fits your preconceived conclusions?

This is baloney! There are plenty of infections that don’t confer cross-immunity to every other variant of the infecting pathogen.

Although I agree with your views, I would have loved to see a link to the studies you mentioned. Most people I talk with are asking, where did you get this information?

There's only one problem with this.  You have to get Covid and survive to get the immunity.

There is no downside to getting vaccinated if you recovered from Covid.

Well, yeah, if I already had small pox, I would have more immunity than those who never had small pox.  BUT WHO WANTS THE RISK OF DEATH FROM SMALL POX AND ALL THE RESULTANT PERMANENT DAMAGE?   The same applies to COVID-19.  While I recovered from Chicken Pox as a child, I can still get shingles.  TAKE YOUR SHOTS.

Natural immunity obviously requires previous infection. Why take the risk if there is a safer alternative?

Tell the families of the 600k+ who died that the good news is their loved ones in the grave won’t get covid again.

So why are all reports in the media telling us that most people that are dying are those who are not vaccinated???

You’re ignoring the fact that acquiring immunity through the actual virus rather than through a piece of it gives you and your loved ones a 1/50 chance of dying. If you get sick and can’t breathe, you’re going to go to the hospital and seek treatment. It’s selfish of you to take a precious bed if you didn’t do your own diligence in preventing your infection.

Please start posting links to your sources when making these reports

Great for those that recover and increase their natural immunity but what about for those that did not make it?




Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 03, 2021, 01:12:45 PM
I'm not going to get into a back and forth with the commenters of the video.   You could have left it at:
 
OK, I watched this.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on September 03, 2021, 01:57:44 PM
And that my friends is why Covid will be hanging around for a long time to come.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on September 03, 2021, 02:11:19 PM
Just got home from our club.  We practiced on the golf range and had lunch.  We noticed that some of the staff were donning masks as we were leaving.  On getting home I checked my emails and had one from our club.  "The dining room will be closing immediately and will reopen on Wednesday Sept. 8.  One of the kitchen staff has tested positive for Covid".  Now this young person may never be sick, may not have ever known he was positive.  You have to think of those who he comes into contact with.  The servers get it from him and pass it along to the members.  It isn't like it's "just me, I, and mine".  This is why it matters.  I am in my mid 70s with many health issues.  Very concerning to me and my wife.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 03, 2021, 02:51:32 PM
Just got home from our club.  We practiced on the golf range and had lunch.  We noticed that some of the staff were donning masks as we were leaving.  On getting home I checked my emails and had one from our club.  "The dining room will be closing immediately and will reopen on Wednesday Sept. 8.  One of the kitchen staff has tested positive for Covid".  Now this young person may never be sick, may not have ever known he was positive.  You have to think of those who he comes into contact with.  The servers get it from him and pass it along to the members.  It isn't like it's "just me, I, and mine".  This is why it matters.  I am in my mid 70s with many health issues.  Very concerning to me and my wife.

I think I know what you're trying to say, and since you don't know the details, you're just filling in the blanks as you see fit. 

Who's vaxxed?  Who's been + and now has NI?  What prompted the test to begin with?  Who's unvaxxed and has never been +?  Maybe a member spread it to the staff first? 

Guess what?  It doesn't matter.

And your response is a perfect example of why people should take the level of precaution that they feel they need and quit worrying so much about what others are doing.

Is it unfair?  Yes.  Do I have more of a cavalier attitude towards it based on my own personal circumstances?  Also, yes.  Should you probably be much more cautious than your average 25 y/o?  Again, yes.

And please don't take this the wrong way, but if we're being honest, any dining experience for anyone, dine-in or take-out, is potentially a huge risk!  From the multiple cooks preparing the food, to the expo plating/bagging the food, to the servers delivering the food, to the dishwasher taking the sanitized dishes out of the wash and setting them on the line....  In any given restaurant, there's probably 4-10 people coming in close or actual contact with your food, your silverware, your glassware and your packaging before it ever even gets to you.  No amount of social distancing or mask is going to help if you're ingesting the virus voluntarily.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on September 03, 2021, 03:21:05 PM
NRNW,  Never thought other than good about you.  You almost answered the question many of those who refuse to get the vax ask.  If more people vaxed there would be exponentially less chance of transmission and having hosts for mutating into new strains-ie: 19 into Delta.  The kitchen staff is routinely tested and I have yet to meet a member who hasn't gotten the vaccine.  I think everyone should be vaccinated, not only for themselves, but for others.  Especially those in food, hospitals, first responders, etc.  When I was young, we had the draft.  The draft was established because not enough people would enter the old non-technical military.  It's much the same today with Covid.  Not enough people are taking a non-selfish view of the situation we are in.  They will either comply now, or eventually be compelled to get vaccinated.  It's a shame it will come to that, but I see it coming if we don't step up and defeat this pandemic.  I was born and raised in Jacksonville and before we could enter school we had to be vaccinated for smallpox, polio, and tested for TB.  All of those are essentially gone.  Now we have a new mindset that it's what's in it for me, or I don't want to.  I don't believe in the draft, but I believe in the vaccine.  Most healthcare professionals do too.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on September 04, 2021, 09:28:18 AM

And please don't take this the wrong way, but if we're being honest, any dining experience for anyone, dine-in or take-out, is potentially a huge risk!

"Potentially huge risk"  ---> logical diahrea.  risk is risk.  there's not potential  the potential is that something could go wrong.

of course, they could go right too.

Here's the thing, right now in Duval County - a million people - there are about 10,000 people with an active infection in that 10-12 day window where they're shedding viable virons that can infect someone else.

Chances are pretty slim to none you're going to encounter one of those 1%, let alone in a way that would expose you to enough viable virons to become infected.  It could happen.  I might happen.  But chances are slim to none.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on September 04, 2021, 09:50:21 AM

Then again, what really matters is the cost of that risk.  It's not about the incredibly tiny chances you'll get covid19, one needs to take into the cost of the risk.  If things go wrong, what will it cost you?

Look at lightning.  Chances of getting hit by it in any given year is 1 in 1/2 million.  But the cost of getting hit by it are extraordinarily high.   If you do get struck, you're probably going to die.    About 10% of people struck by lightning die.


It' snot just about the probability -- often perceived, btw, and not measure -- of something going wrong.  It's also about the outcomes of when something goes wrong.   
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 04, 2021, 04:19:08 PM

Then again, what really matters is the cost of that risk.  It's not about the incredibly tiny chances you'll get covid19, one needs to take into the cost of the risk.  If things go wrong, what will it cost you?

Look at lightning.  Chances of getting hit by it in any given year is 1 in 1/2 million.  But the cost of getting hit by it are extraordinarily high.   If you do get struck, you're probably going to die.    About 10% of people struck by lightning die.


It' snot just about the probability -- often perceived, btw, and not measure -- of something going wrong.  It's also about the outcomes of when something goes wrong.   


And please don't take this the wrong way, but if we're being honest, any dining experience for anyone, dine-in or take-out, is potentially a huge risk!

"Potentially huge risk"  ---> logical diahrea.  risk is risk.  there's not potential  the potential is that something could go wrong.

of course, they could go right too.

Here's the thing, right now in Duval County - a million people - there are about 10,000 people with an active infection in that 10-12 day window where they're shedding viable virons that can infect someone else.

Chances are pretty slim to none you're going to encounter one of those 1%, let alone in a way that would expose you to enough viable virons to become infected.  It could happen.  I might happen.  But chances are slim to none.



Talk about logical diahrea...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on September 04, 2021, 04:45:47 PM
Lol, yeah, thank God the chances of getting the virus are slim to none. Otherwise we might have a real pandemic on our hands.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 04, 2021, 05:38:56 PM
The dumbest statement is... "risk is risk"... I  really should have deleted both posts but I  figured everyone should see the uninformed bullshit coming out of some mouths. Probably endorses horse wormer too...

Because... risk is risk... unbelievable...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on September 04, 2021, 05:43:23 PM
The dumbest statement is... "risk is risk"... I  really should have deleted both posts but I  figured everyone should see the uninformed bullshit coming out of some mouths. Probably endorses horse wormer too...

Because... risk is risk... unbelievable...
I often wonder if he is serious.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 04, 2021, 06:07:00 PM
The dumbest statement is... "risk is risk"... I  really should have deleted both posts but I  figured everyone should see the uninformed bullshit coming out of some mouths. Probably endorses horse wormer too...

Because... risk is risk... unbelievable...
I often wonder if he is serious.

Or sober...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on September 04, 2021, 09:58:04 PM
If you have a moment, watch this video if you are hesitant to get the shots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd8P12BXebo
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on September 05, 2021, 02:27:37 PM
Bl8rjax, stop posting this anti-vax shit. I’ve warned you repeatedly. I’m not doing it again.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 05, 2021, 08:07:19 PM
If you have a moment, watch this video if you are hesitant to get the shots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd8P12BXebo

I watched.  To me it fulfills a stereotype of exactly the kind of people who should be getting the vaccine, though.  In the end, I still believe it is an individual's choice to make. 

Look, I know this disease is shitty and it's unfair, but there's also a subset of people that it inherently targets.  It's not the Covid that's killing people as much as it's the strain that the virus is putting on all of the other systems - namely the pulmonary.  If you have a weak ticker, less oxygen is going to affect someone a lot more than someone with a healthy heart.  And if you want to compare it to another virus that's deadly, but doesn't actually kill you, how about HIV?

If they were to do a follow up with Chris Green's family regarding his typical lifestyle: exercise routines and his eating habits, based solely on the photo, I'm going to guess they'd tell you less than average and more than average.  What was his cholesterol level?  What other underlying conditions (known or not) did he have?  How long was he feeling like ass before he even checked into a hospital?

So I'll restate again, if you're susceptible to 'average' diseases, if you have underlying conditions, if you live off of a soda and chips , then you're the type of person who should have been in line to get the shot first.

If you have any concerns, get vaxxed.  I'm not anti-vax.  I'm just pro-NI.  All of my views are coming from my own personal experience, and this conversation had me genuinely curious, which is why I came out of hibernation and got involved.

And because of this convo (among some other things), I paid my $75 and scheduled an appt. for this Friday to go and get my antibody test and see quantitative result to see where I actually stand.  My experience: I have had a known + (over a year ago), have been in close contact with many other +s (throughout the timeline), have had 3 kids in 3 different schools since last year, etc...   

I could be Typhoid Mary; I could be Robert Neville (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480249/).  I'll find out in about 10 days.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 05, 2021, 09:12:02 PM
^ Heard a doctor on NPR today say antibody tests don't tell you much about resistance to COVID for at least two reasons:  First, at this time, no one knows what level of antibodies it takes to fight COIVD and, second, no level of natural antibodies matches the resistance offered by the vaccines.

There there is this advice:
Quote
SENOIA, Ga. — A 33-year-old Georgia man who died from COVID-19 used social media to make a final plea to his friends and family to get vaccinated.

Kevin McKenzie, of Senoia, died Sept. 2 at Piedmont Newnan Hospital after a three-week battle with the virus. He was not vaccinated.

On Aug. 24, McKenzie posted a photo from his hospital room, saying that he appreciated prayers but he needed something else from his friends and family.

“Yes, there is something I want everyone to do for me that I was too damn stubborn to do, and that’s if you haven’t yet done so, go get your COVID vaccine,” McKenzie wrote.

McKenzie said that when he was admitted to the hospital, four different doctors told him they had not had to admit one single patient who was vaccinated.

“Trust me you don’t want to be where I am now and as soon as I get over this I’ll be getting my vaccine,” he wrote.

McKenzie’s fiancée, Lori Minatree, said she hopes that post helped save lives....

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/fayette-county/33-year-old-ga-man-who-died-covid-19-makes-final-plea-friends-get-vaccinated/GK6UYTBLCVBEVPPZFHHKOO7EUM/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxoNOLE on September 06, 2021, 12:48:15 AM
NRW - I'm newish here, and don't know you.  So please forgive
, in advance, my ignorance of your personal circumstances.

But since you are genuinely curious, I'll offer my own opinion. And that is, we still find ourselves behind the curve scientifically on this disease. It evolves faster than we can adapt. To me, that is a convincing case for controlling what we can so we can understand better what we can't. We can choose--and therefore control--vaccination.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 06, 2021, 04:12:08 AM
And if you want to compare it to another virus that's deadly, but doesn't actually kill you, how about HIV?


Just an aside - HIV almost certainly will kill you. If you don't take medication for it, that is. Yes, there are probably people who are HIV+ and asymptomatic and not taking medication and getting along fine. But if you contract HIV and don't take medication for it, you will likely develop AIDS and die. Or maybe you'll contract something like COVID and because you are not on medication, your compromised immune system can't handle it and it kills you.

I wouldn't compare HIV to COVID-19 for many reasons. Among these are a) we have drugs that successfully treat HIV, b) we have drugs that stop HIV transmission c) we don't have an HIV vaccine and d) HIV is far deadlier than COVID-19.

But not getting a COVID vaccination when you're eligible and then acting as a conduit to spread the virus to other people would be similar to having HIV and having unprotected sex despite not taking meds or PrEP. I mean, the HIV isn't affecting you, why should you worry?

(And in case anyone is unaware of this - and I was for many years - current HIV medication renders the virus undetectable in the carrier and makes it so that person cannot transmit the virus to others - it's almost like being non-HIV+. It really is incredible what strides have been made there.)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on September 06, 2021, 08:47:29 AM
There have been multiple reported instances in which fit individuals contracted coronavirus, and, in some cases, nearly died.

Charlie Aragon – a 35-year-old bodybuilder from Arizona with no underlying health conditions, who kept up a high protein, low carb diet – had to be hospitalized for COVID-19 for 20 days. He spent two weeks on a ventilator.
Lequawn James – a 29-year-old nurse practitioner and bodybuilder – spent 10 days in the intensive care unit fighting COVID-19. At times, he couldn’t walk even 4 feet without oxygen.
Mike Shultz – a 43-year-old nurse who spent six to seven days a week in the gym before the virus hit – spent six weeks in the hospital fighting COVID-19, four and a half of them intubated.
Joshua Fiske – a 47-year-old urologist and marathoner who ran 16-20 miles a week – nearly died of COVID-19, too. His fever lingered around 104 degrees for days, and it hurt to talk or move.
Based on our research, the claim that individuals who meet certain health criteria — such as maintaining under 10% body fat, exercising regularly and eating a healthy diet — are not at risk for COVID-19 is FALSE. Medical experts say that no one is immune from coronavirus, based on current research and numerous instances of healthy individuals who have contracted and nearly died from the disease. Lower risk individuals can also spread it to others who may be more at-risk.
"Nobody's immune to COVID, unless they've had it already," Dr. Leora Horwitz, director of the Center for Healthcare Innovation and Delivery Science at NYU Langone, told USA TODAY. "It doesn't matter how healthy you are, how young you are, how few diseases you have, how many marathons you've run – nobody's immune."

"If there was no risk in people who have normal weight, we would know that by now," Naveed Sattar, a professor of metabolic medicine at the University of Glasgow in Scotland, told USA TODAY. "That's not the case."

“From all of the evidence so far, it does seem that being healthier will reduce your risks of severe outcomes, perhaps considerably. But some folk who appear very healthy can get severe COVID or die from it. Being normal weight does not protect you."
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 06, 2021, 09:12:58 AM
Quote
"Nobody's immune to COVID, unless they've had it already," Dr. Leora Horwitz, director of the Center for Healthcare Innovation and Delivery Science at NYU Langone, told USA TODAY. "It doesn't matter how healthy you are, how young you are, how few diseases you have, how many marathons you've run – nobody's immune.

Emphasis mine.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 06, 2021, 09:15:23 AM
Just an aside - HIV almost certainly will kill you.

HIV doesn't kill you.  It destroys your immunity system which allows normal, mundane viruses and bugs to kill you.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 06, 2021, 09:18:52 AM
NRW - I'm newish here, and don't know you.  So please forgive
, in advance, my ignorance of your personal circumstances.

But since you are genuinely curious, I'll offer my own opinion. And that is, we still find ourselves behind the curve scientifically on this disease. It evolves faster than we can adapt. To me, that is a convincing case for controlling what we can so we can understand better what we can't. We can choose--and therefore control--vaccination.

I've pretty much listed all of my personal reasons here in this thread. 

I'm not suggesting that anyone (except myself to date) to not get vaxxed. 

My main point of focus is that I believe in personal choice, and that those choices should be made based on each individual's unique circumstance. 
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Charles Hunter on September 06, 2021, 09:47:09 AM
NRW - I'm newish here, and don't know you.  So please forgive
, in advance, my ignorance of your personal circumstances.

But since you are genuinely curious, I'll offer my own opinion. And that is, we still find ourselves behind the curve scientifically on this disease. It evolves faster than we can adapt. To me, that is a convincing case for controlling what we can so we can understand better what we can't. We can choose--and therefore control--vaccination.

I've pretty much listed all of my personal reasons here in this thread. 

I'm not suggesting that anyone (except myself to date) to not get vaxxed. 

My main point of focus is that I believe in personal choice, and that those choices should be made based on each individual's unique circumstance. 

Does how your personal choice may affect others enter into your consideration?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 06, 2021, 10:56:40 AM
Let's keep it civil people. Name calling is forbidden. Anti vaccination misinformation or propaganda will not be tolerated.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 06, 2021, 11:27:45 AM

Does how your personal choice may affect others enter into your consideration?

Antibodies are antibodies.  It doesn't matter if they come from within or if they come from a needle.

So if you're talking about 'affecting others' with regards to me transmitting the virus, then I'm no different than anyone else who is vaccinated.

If you're talking about 'affecting others' with regards to me catching a variant and my health declining, I'm no different than anyone else who got the vax early and have waning antibody counts.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 06, 2021, 11:36:31 AM

Does how your personal choice may affect others enter into your consideration?

Antibodies are antibodies.  It doesn't matter if they come from within or if they come from a needle.



Yes, and no. I mean, they can distinguish between antibodies from the vaccine vs antibodies from having COVID. I wasn't aware of that until my wife took an antibody test last week and found out yesterday that she has apparently had COVID-19 at some point (they say likely within the past six months, but I think it was likely last March).

I've no idea if the (partial) immunity obtained from the vaccine is better than the (partial) immunity obtained by fighting off the virus.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 06, 2021, 11:38:07 AM
Just an aside - HIV almost certainly will kill you.

HIV doesn't kill you.  It destroys your immunity system which allows normal, mundane viruses and bugs to kill you.

It kills you. Whether it is the proximate cause of death or the distal cause of death is irrelevant. But for the fact that you had HIV, you wouldn't be dead.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: JeffreyS on September 06, 2021, 11:55:55 AM
It is an individual choice to make. However when you make an obviously foolish choice with no regard for your community expect to be judged as foolish and uncaring with regard to the issue.

That’s the way I expect my terrible decisions to be judged.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 06, 2021, 12:12:07 PM
However when you make an obviously foolish choice...

The choice was made for me as I was confirmed + before the vaxxes really rolled out.

I wore masks when they were required.  I absolutely love the personal space that people freely give now. 

I did my due diligence with NI v/s vax after the vax became more available and made my choices based off of that.

I'm choosing to roll with the NI, since there's no unwavering decision made regarding the effectiveness of either - some science says NI is more effective.  Some science says that booster are still recommended along with the NI.  I'm still leaning towards strictly the NI because I have ZERO in my past health history to suggest otherwise.

So don't come at me with your 'no regard' take.  If anything, I'm probably doing more research than most.   

I'm not calling anyone foolish for getting vaxxed.  I recommend it to anyone who has had health issues or doesn't know if they've contracted the virus already or even if they just want an extra layer of protection.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 06, 2021, 12:20:47 PM


I did my due diligence with NI v/s vax after the vax became more available and made my choices based off of that.

I'm choosing to roll with the NI, since there's no unwavering decision made regarding the effectiveness of either - some science says NI is more effective.  Some science says that booster are still recommended along with the NI.  I'm still leaning towards strictly the NI because I have ZERO in my past health history to suggest otherwise.


What I would recommend, however, is that you get a COVID antibody test if you're planning on going with NI. And re boosters, those are needed with NI as well - your antibodies decrease over time. I personally think it would be smarter to get the vaccine and also have 'NI' from the antibodies you developed from getting an infection. I don't understand deliberately avoiding something that is pretty much guaranteed to be a benefit and to make you more resistant. But to each his own or whatever.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 06, 2021, 12:30:56 PM
What I would recommend, however, is that you get a COVID antibody test if you're planning on going with NI.

Scheduled for this Friday.

I don't understand deliberately avoiding something that is pretty much guaranteed to be a benefit and to make you more resistant.

Read the thread.  I've been completely transparent with my reasoning.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 06, 2021, 02:12:54 PM

Read the thread.  I've been completely transparent with my reasoning.

Yes, and I don't understand it.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on September 06, 2021, 03:11:08 PM
In life, it's important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 06, 2021, 08:58:24 PM
In life, it's important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.

Who's arguing?  I'm not claiming to be 'right', while several of you on here have already told me how wrong I am. ​

So many of you seem hyper-focused on what everyone else around you is doing when the only thing you should be concerned with is your own personal well-being.  Control what you can control and mitigate the impact of things you can't. 
It's really not that complicated. 

So for all of you that have had your second dose >8 months ago.  In the sense of CV-19, what makes you any different than me?  Just because you did what you thought was right at the time, doesn't make you any more or less right than someone who has gotten the virus and now has NI. 

I'll post my results here from the anti-body test.  Will you?  Or is an actual quantitative analysis of the people in our small group discussion above you?  Too bothersome?  Not worth your time or effort?  Probably.  But at least you got the shot, amirite?

Cool.

At least one of us is actually looking for some sort of answer.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 07, 2021, 01:24:58 AM
^ Heard a doctor on NPR today say antibody tests don't tell you much about resistance to COVID for at least two reasons:  First, at this time, no one knows what level of antibodies it takes to fight COIVD and, second, no level of natural antibodies matches the resistance offered by the vaccines.

^NRW, reposting the above as you seem to either have overlooked it or ignored it.  Relying strictly on NI antibodies is not the surest way to protect yourself.  Not sure why you don't get the vaccine in light of this.  Plenty of stubborn people (I posted an example in a prior post) are regretting not getting the vaccine, often on their death beds.  Why would you even take the much higher risk of no vaccine when the vaccine risk is near zero?

I think this is why you continue to get pushback on this thread.  Most of us can't make sense of your position.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 07, 2021, 02:30:45 AM
In life, it's important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.

Who's arguing?  I'm not claiming to be 'right', while several of you on here have already told me how wrong I am. ​

So many of you seem hyper-focused on what everyone else around you is doing when the only thing you should be concerned with is your own personal well-being.  Control what you can control and mitigate the impact of things you can't. 
It's really not that complicated. 

So for all of you that have had your second dose >8 months ago.  In the sense of CV-19, what makes you any different than me?  Just because you did what you thought was right at the time, doesn't make you any more or less right than someone who has gotten the virus and now has NI. 

I'll post my results here from the anti-body test.  Will you?  Or is an actual quantitative analysis of the people in our small group discussion above you?  Too bothersome?  Not worth your time or effort?  Probably.  But at least you got the shot, amirite?

Cool.

At least one of us is actually looking for some sort of answer. I have not taken an antibody test because I don't qualify for a free one on the NHS (yet) and I don't want to pay £60 for one (and I kind of - perhaps incorrectly - assume I have antibodies as my wife has them).

I had my second dose about two months ago.

Re this: "Control what you can control and mitigate the impact of things you can't. It's really not that complicated."

That sounds like an endorsement for getting the vaccine to bolster any antibodies you already have. As the vaccine and prior infection don't necessarily stop the variants, it seems a better idea to do what you can to boost your own defences to either help you evade the variant or lessen the severity of the infection if you do contract it.

Anyway, my concern isn't your health (I mean it is but not chiefly), it is the health of others you may unwittingly spread the virus to. Others who may not have as robust an immune system.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: tufsu1 on September 07, 2021, 03:17:19 PM
Bl8rjax, stop posting this anti-vax shit. I’ve warned you repeatedly. I’m not doing it again.

I'm curious what he has to say about Israel and their infections now. The serious cases are once again leaning heavily to the unvaccinated.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 07, 2021, 03:23:01 PM
In light of the discussion of antibodies occurring via natural infection vs vaccine, I thought I'd post this article I saw today.

Quote
So who is capable of mounting this "superhuman" or "hybrid" immune response?

People who have had a "hybrid" exposure to the virus. Specifically, they were infected with the coronavirus in 2020 and then immunized with mRNA vaccines this year. "Those people have amazing responses to the vaccine," says virologist Theodora Hatziioannou at Rockefeller University, who also helped lead several of the studies. "I think they are in the best position to fight the virus. The antibodies in these people's blood can even neutralize SARS-CoV-1, the first coronavirus, which emerged 20 years ago. That virus is very, very different from SARS-CoV-2."

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/09/07/1033677208/new-studies-find-evidence-of-superhuman-immunity-to-covid-19-in-some-individuals (https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/09/07/1033677208/new-studies-find-evidence-of-superhuman-immunity-to-covid-19-in-some-individuals)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 07, 2021, 05:10:07 PM
Bl8rjax, stop posting this anti-vax shit. I’ve warned you repeatedly. I’m not doing it again.

I'm curious what he has to say about Israel and their infections now. The serious cases are once again leaning heavily to the unvaccinated.

It may be a week or so before he answers you...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on September 10, 2021, 08:35:56 AM
So it seems like the vaccine mandates are starting to catch up to reality. I think that if you want to do most things outside of Florida and a hand full of other states, you're gonna need the vaccine. Especially if you want to travel internationally.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on September 10, 2021, 12:20:30 PM
So don't come at me with your 'no regard' take.  If anything, I'm probably doing more research than most.   

What field of research do you do? Anything published?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on September 10, 2021, 01:04:43 PM
So don't come at me with your 'no regard' take.  If anything, I'm probably doing more research than most.   

What field of research do you do? Anything published?

Bahaha
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 10, 2021, 01:48:23 PM
So don't come at me with your 'no regard' take.  If anything, I'm probably doing more research than most.   

What field of research do you do? Anything published?

Bahaha

Still under peer review.   ;)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 10, 2021, 10:27:27 PM
Why would anyone bet against the vaccines with odds like this...

Quote
Unvaccinated People Are 11 Times More Likely To Die Of COVID-19, New Research Finds

Unvaccinated people are 11 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than those who are fully vaccinated, new research has found, bolstering evidence that the inoculations continue to provide powerful protection, even against the delta variant.

The latest studies from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released on Friday also found that vaccinated people were nearly five times less likely to get infected and 10 times less likely to get so sick they ended up in the hospital.

The CDC "looked at COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths in 13 states and offers further evidence of the power of vaccination," Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC, said at a White House COVID-19 briefing on Friday.

"As we have shown, study after study, vaccination works," she added.

However, the studies — which analyzed data from 600,000 Americans between April 4 and July 17 — suggest that the effectiveness of the vaccines may have dropped as the delta variant became dominant. One explanation could be waning immunity. A second is that the variant is better at evading the immune system. It also could be some combination of the two factors.

Another study examining data from nine states from June through August indicated that the Moderna vaccine may be the most effective of the three available in the United States.

The research found that across all ages, vaccine effectiveness was "significantly higher" among Moderna vaccine recipients — at 95% — than among Pfizer or Johnson & Johnson vaccine recipients, with vaccine effectiveness of 80% and 60%, respectively.

As of Friday, White House officials said nearly 75% of eligible Americans — those 12 and older — have gotten at least their first shot, and the CDC reported about 54% are fully vaccinated.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccinated-deaths-11-times-more-likely
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 11, 2021, 05:49:10 AM
Why would anyone bet against the vaccines with odds like this...

Quote
Unvaccinated People Are 11 Times More Likely To Die Of COVID-19, New Research Finds

Unvaccinated people are 11 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than those who are fully vaccinated, new research has found, bolstering evidence that the inoculations continue to provide powerful protection, even against the delta variant.

The latest studies from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released on Friday also found that vaccinated people were nearly five times less likely to get infected and 10 times less likely to get so sick they ended up in the hospital.

The CDC "looked at COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths in 13 states and offers further evidence of the power of vaccination," Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC, said at a White House COVID-19 briefing on Friday.

"As we have shown, study after study, vaccination works," she added.

However, the studies — which analyzed data from 600,000 Americans between April 4 and July 17 — suggest that the effectiveness of the vaccines may have dropped as the delta variant became dominant. One explanation could be waning immunity. A second is that the variant is better at evading the immune system. It also could be some combination of the two factors.

Another study examining data from nine states from June through August indicated that the Moderna vaccine may be the most effective of the three available in the United States.

The research found that across all ages, vaccine effectiveness was "significantly higher" among Moderna vaccine recipients — at 95% — than among Pfizer or Johnson & Johnson vaccine recipients, with vaccine effectiveness of 80% and 60%, respectively.

As of Friday, White House officials said nearly 75% of eligible Americans — those 12 and older — have gotten at least their first shot, and the CDC reported about 54% are fully vaccinated.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccinated-deaths-11-times-more-likely

I agree. And I still don't understand NRW's reasons for NOT getting the vaccine. He's only said it's because he believes his natural immunity or his immune system is robust. But that's not a reason for NOT getting the vaccine. I've yet to hear why he won't get a vaccine - he's alluded to research and 'due diligence' but hasn't made a case against the vaccine. Other than 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 11, 2021, 09:04:03 AM
I don't know where NRW is employed but he may have more choices to make...

Under Biden’s new mandate, all private businesses with more than 100 employees will be required to enforce vaccination, and provide paid time off to do so. If an employee refuses to get a COVID-19 vaccine, that person will be required to show proof of a negative COVID test once a week.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 11, 2021, 07:29:28 PM
I don't know where NRW is employed but he may have more choices to make...

Under Biden’s new mandate, all private businesses with more than 100 employees will be required to enforce vaccination, and provide paid time off to do so. If an employee refuses to get a COVID-19 vaccine, that person will be required to show proof of a negative COVID test once a week.

All fair questions.

Self-employed with no government contracts and limited in-person interaction required.

I had a  vial of blood drawn 9n Friday, so I'll have the last bit of info that I personally need before getting the Vax or continuing on with NI.

I'm kind of surprised that so many are willing to just step up and do what they think is best while chastising someone for doing the same.  Especially with everything that we're  obtaining to learn about the  virus.

TUFSU mentioned Israel, one of the highest % vaxxed countries in the world.  And they're reeling from the lack of ilong-term neffectiveness of the first rollout of vaccines. 

Which is why I asked earlier when everyone got theirs.  Because there's the possibility that some of you are just as, if not more, of a detriment to society than you 'believe' me to be.  But you're not concerned with yourself be abuse you e had a few jabs.

So carry on.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 11, 2021, 07:47:30 PM
I don't know where NRW is employed but he may have more choices to make...

Under Biden’s new mandate, all private businesses with more than 100 employees will be required to enforce vaccination, and provide paid time off to do so. If an employee refuses to get a COVID-19 vaccine, that person will be required to show proof of a negative COVID test once a week.

All fair questions.

Self-employed with no government contracts and limited in-person interaction required.

I had a  vial of blood drawn 9n Friday, so I'll have the last bit of info that I personally need before getting the Vax or continuing on with NI.

I'm kind of surprised that so many are willing to just step up and do what they think is best while chastising someone for doing the same.  Especially with everything that we're  obtaining to learn about the  virus.

TUFSU mentioned Israel, one of the highest % vaxxed countries in the world.  And they're reeling from the lack of ilong-term neffectiveness of the first rollout of vaccines. 

Which is why I asked earlier when everyone got theirs.  Because there's the possibility that some of you are just as, if not more, of a detriment to society than you 'believe' me to be.  But you're not concerned with yourself be abuse you e had a few jabs.

So carry on.

How is a person who has had the vaccine a 'detriment to society'?  Honest question.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 11, 2021, 07:58:54 PM
Not through any fault of their own, but to use a quick analogy, it's similar to The Emporer with No Clothes.

You did what you believed to be the right thing, but wothout regular antibody testing, you have ZERO knowledge on how the vaccine truly affected you and how strong your immunity is or isn't,  yet you continue on with an invisible armor with the assumption that not only are you protected, but that you're protecting others when it might not be true

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on September 11, 2021, 08:22:29 PM
NRnW,  That makes absolutely no sense.  Give us your sources of this analogy.  You are picking and choosing bits of info from God knows where to fit your ideas.  The vax WORKS!  Most real data proves it.  If anyone has "ZERO" knowledge on anything concerning Covid, it is you. 
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 11, 2021, 08:35:54 PM
Quote
Give us your sources of this analogy.
Hans Christian Anderson
Quote
The vax WORKS!  Most real data proves it.
Key word - most.  MOST people my age don't carry it asymptomatically either.  So I've already gone against the grain at least once.
Quote
If anyone has "ZERO" knowledge on anything concerning Covid, it is you.

Seriously, get over yourself.  I'm glad what you're doing is working for you, but so far, what I'm doing is working just as well.  I'm sure I've read plenty of articles for both of us regarding my individual circumstance.

Here's my issue with your comment.  You're trying to apply a one-size-fits all to this, and I get it - due to the lack of time and level of preparedness, we've (science in general) had to take that approach.  And since most of the actual scientific resources are geared to finding the MOST EFFECTIVE way to treat this, there just aren't enough resources to study the sub-classes in depth.

+40, asymptomatic +, no known recurrences.

Quote
You are picking and choosing bits of info from God knows where to fit your ideas.... 

So for you to just say that I don't care, or don't know anything, speaks more to your willingness to accept what bits and pieces that you choose to accept and to deny anything that may not fit in that box.  I'm still looking for specific answers. 



Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Lunican on September 11, 2021, 09:51:07 PM
^ Did you struggle this much with all of your required vaccines, or just this one?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: MusicMan on September 11, 2021, 10:08:52 PM
"The CDC estimates that an average of 36,000 people died of the flu each year over the past decade. The worst recent flu season was 2017-2018, when 61,000 people died from the flu. Around 22,000 people died of the flu during the shorter 2019-2020 season — the second lowest death total in the past 10 years, after the 12,000 flu deaths in the 2011-2012 season.

Even accounting for the fact that the COVID-19 pandemic has lasted a year instead of eight months, it has taken an average of 36,000 more lives per month when compared to the 2017-2018 flu season."

Even with all the preventative measures that heve been taken, Covid-19 is far more contagious and deadly than the normal flu. Why on earth would you put yourself and everyone you come into contact with at risk?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 11, 2021, 10:33:36 PM
The "wish I got the vaccine" stories just keep coming, often from dying patients:

Quote
Doctor says 'death is imminent' for a woman on a hospital bed in Michigan who refused the COVID-19 vaccine 'adamantly'

A doctor in Michigan issued a stern warning for a woman lying on a hospital bed who refused to get a COVID-19 vaccine: "Death is imminent."

Dr. Nicole Linder, chief hospitalist at OSF St. Francis Hospital Medical Group in Escanaba, Michigan, urged the public to get vaccinated against the coronavirus on Thursday. To make her point clearly, she cited a "very special patient" of hers named Kathy who had "refused the vaccine adamantly" before contracting the coronavirus.

Kathy has been in the hospital for at least three weeks battling COVID-19, Linder said, according to local news outlet MLive.com.

After being admitted to the hospital, Kathy called up several friends and family members to convince them to get vaccinated. At least six people got vaccinated after speaking with Kathy, Linder said, according to MLive.com.

Kathy has since been released on hospice care to spend time with her family as her symptoms continue to worsen. Ahead of her release, Kathy and Linder hugged goodbye.

"It was too late for her," said Linder, who got permission from Kathy to share her story. "Despite everything that could possibly be done for her, she's going to lose her battle and lose her life. And she's vivacious and gregarious and just a wonderful person and this did not have to happen. Her family didn't have to lose her."

For months, health experts have been urging the public to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. Data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released on Friday says that unvaccinated people are up to 11 times likelier to die of COVID-19 than people who've gotten a jab.

Nationwide, about 54% of the US population is fully vaccinated against the coronavirus, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.

"I'm fatigued, and I am heartsick and I'm tired of watching people suffer needlessly and die of a disease that could have been prevented by a simple and safe and effective vaccine," Linder said. "I don't want to watch my patients' families suffer with the grief of this and also the guilt if they played some role in their family member's decision not to be vaccinated."

https://news.yahoo.com/doctor-says-death-imminent-woman-143430079.html
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 11, 2021, 11:22:23 PM
^ Did you struggle this much with all of your required vaccines, or just this one?
I didn't have much of a choice with any of the others.

I don't really know what else to tell you guys, but I guess I'm going to die on this hill either figuratively or literally. 

I'll post again when the antibody test results are in.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 11, 2021, 11:51:47 PM
For the unvaccinated who claim it's about their personal freedom and that they aren't impacting others, consider that healthcare rationing, complete with the feared "death panels," is now taking place, starting with Idaho, a typical "red" state that has looked the other way while COVID runs rampant.  Ironically, it was GOP'er Sarah Palin that raised the issue (as a lie) to scare supporters of Obamacare and now it's mostly GOP governors that are making it a reality.

Quote
‘Sophie’s choice, over and over’: Death panels are the new phase of the pandemic

Remember “death panels”? Well, they’re back, and this time, they’re real.

“Death panels” was a phrase coined by Sarah Palin, the folksy-talkin’ former Alaska governor and vice presidential candidate. She imagined that Obamacare would cause health bureaucrats to ration out medical care, after first sitting in judgment of who was most deserving to receive it.

This was awarded the “Lie of the Year” in 2009, as it was nowhere in any legislation. It was a right-wing fever dream.

But now a version of it has come true — in Idaho. Hospitals in northern Idaho are so flooded with COVID-19 patients that the state has declared an emergency, called “crisis standards of care.” It means when you show up to the emergency room, you may get treated based preferentially on who is most likely to live.

“If your mother has a heart attack, someone will have to assign her a point score designating how likely she is to survive,” the Idaho Falls Post Register wrote, describing the scheme last winter when it was first being contemplated. “If it isn’t high enough, she might not get an ICU bed, and a COVID patient will get it instead.

“We will ask the nurses and doctors who’ve broken their backs trying to save us to make that Sophie’s choice over, and over, and over.”

This past week the 200-bed hospital in Coeur d’Alene had 218 patients — so many it was treating patients in hallways and running out of oxygen to help them breathe, The Associated Press reported.

“What about the people who need emergency care but, because of the exploding COVID crisis here, can’t get it?” asked the Coeur d’Alene Press. “Do we just let them die?”

The answer to that is: “Yes.” Letting them die is actually the plan. The GOP governor of Idaho said it was “an unprecedented and unwanted point in the history of our state.” But he made no moves to try anything else, such as requiring vaccinations for anyone (he earlier had banned the governmental use of “vaccine passports” in the state). It’s a red state, and so for the most part they’re letting the virus rip and run.


Remember years ago when a tea party debate audience cheered the idea of letting someone without insurance die? What’s happening in Idaho is even worse because it’s so preventable.

Doctors in Idaho have said their COVID-19 patients are almost all unvaccinated. “We don’t have any vaccinated patients here,” an ICU doc in Boise told The Associated Press. “Misinformation is hurting people and killing people.”

Idaho ranks last in the percentage of its population having at least one dose of coronavirus vaccine, at only 45%. The U.S. is about 63%; Washington state 69%.

But Idaho is not the only place where the “death panel” concept is creeping into the conversation. The main hospital in Yakima is seeing a record number of COVID-19 patients, almost all unvaccinated. They’re raising the specter of rationing care there, too — something the chief medical officer said has never happened at the hospital.

“I sure hope we don’t get there, but that’s where we’re heading,” he warned in The Yakima Herald-Republic on Wednesday.

When I wrote last week about a COVID-19 skeptic and anti-vaxxer who had died of the disease, asking whether society should care, I heard from a slew of readers furious because their own medical care is being delayed or cut off — a diffuse version of the triage going on in Idaho.

“Am I angry? You bet I am,” wrote Mike Morrissey, of Snohomish, who says his cardiac surgery has been put off indefinitely due to a flood of COVID-19 patients. “My heart is failing without intervention. I can’t walk a block without stopping. But their choice [to not get vaccinated] just negated my urgent need.”

Echoed a nurse at a regional hospital: “They’re dying of stupidity by choice, but at the same time taking up space in the hospital and displacing stroke, cancer and cardiac patients.”

“Do I care what happens to those who won’t take a simple step to end this nightmare?” asked reader Jon Kraus, who said his brother-in-law had a surgery to fix a painful back condition put on hold due to COVID-19 levels. “I’m tired of catering to people who don’t care about anyone but themselves.”

This is why Gov. Jay Inslee and President Joe Biden suddenly feel more comfortable mandating the vaccine for groups of workers and businesses. Yes, the right-wing flank of the GOP will sue, march around in tri-corner hats and scream at their local school boards. But people are done. The vaccinated — the majority in most states — have had enough.

Now, as the workplace vax wars rev up, the best point to keep in mind is offered up by reader Michael Andreoni:

“Who I DO feel sorry for are the medical personnel who have to deal with this mess,” he wrote.

It’s the story of our time, how a pandemic that was visited upon us, through no fault of our own, ended up morphing into such a self-inflicted wound for America.

It didn’t take a tyrant or a deep state or a committee of banal bureaucrats to bring death panels to life, as Sarah Palin imagined in her fever dream. We willingly did it to ourselves.

Danny Westneat: dwestneat@seattletimes.com; Danny Westneat takes an opinionated look at the Puget Sound region's news, people and politics.


https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/sophies-choice-over-and-over-death-panels-are-the-new-phase-of-the-pandemic/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 12, 2021, 03:04:55 AM
Not through any fault of their own, but to use a quick analogy, it's similar to The Emporer with No Clothes.

You did what you believed to be the right thing, but wothout regular antibody testing, you have ZERO knowledge on how the vaccine truly affected you and how strong your immunity is or isn't,  yet you continue on with an invisible armor with the assumption that not only are you protected, but that you're protecting others when it might not be true

That's not a very good analogy - in The Emperor's New Clothes, it's a scam. Anyway, your analogy would hold more water if people getting the vaccine were relying on faith and buying snake oil. But they're not. Any single vaccine recipient may not have any particular knowledge of their immune status, but they are lucky enough to be able to rely on documentary evidence. This isn't blind faith, it's a decision based on a significant body of scientific knowledge.

The vaccines are known to be effective, even if the efficacy is diminished in respect of the Delta (and Alpha and possibly other) variants. And antibody testing only shows the presence of antibodies and has no way of determining how much immunity you possess. As I type this, I am working on the basis that you have not yet got your antibody test results. So you actually don't know if you have ever had the virus. If your results come back positive for COVID antibodies, that just means you have had the virus and have antibodies in your bloodstream. It says nothing about how much immunity you have (or which strain infected you, etc).

And who's to say that any person choosing to get the vaccine isn't ALSO in possession of COVID antibodies from a prior asymptomatic infection? I think one odd thing about your analogy is you seem to be the one who is putting faith in something you have no proof of (both the robustness of your immune system and how it would respond to a SARS-CoV-2 infection as well as the fact that you *might* have had a prior infection). The people choosing to get the vaccines at least have clinical evidence in support of their position (even if the evidence is less than complete, it's astronomically more extensive than what you're going on).

Maybe you were using 'you' to mean 'one' - but in my particular case, I got the vaccine and have not changed my behaviour since the beginning of lockdown. I barely leave the house, I avoid public transport and I wear a mask if I have to be indoors around people (grocery store, train on the way to work once a week now that I am being required to do that). So, no acting like I have an 'invisible armour'.

Anyway, getting the vaccine and having natural antibodies INCREASES your immunity. By choosing to forego the vaccine, a person is deliberately choosing to reduce his immunity.

If you have concerns about the vaccine, then maybe just say it? You've not articulated any particular concerns about the vaccine (at least not that I recall seeing in this thread). So as it stands, your argument seems to be, "I think I've had the virus, so I don't think I need to get the vaccine".
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on September 12, 2021, 07:44:16 AM
Saying you have natural immunity reminds me of a friend who years ago said, "I always drive when I'm drunk, and I've never had a problem."
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: tufsu1 on September 12, 2021, 08:36:09 PM
Bl8rjax, stop posting this anti-vax shit. I’ve warned you repeatedly. I’m not doing it again.

I'm curious what he has to say about Israel and their infections now. The serious cases are once again leaning heavily to the unvaccinated.

It may be a week or so before he answers you...

well here's the latest - 90% of most serious patients are unvaccinated

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/coronavirus/90-percent-of-covid-ecmo-patients-are-unvaccinated-health-ministry-679207?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Israeli+child+who+survived+Italy+cable+car+crash+abducted+to+Israel&utm_campaign=September+12%2C+2021+Day
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 14, 2021, 10:46:38 PM
DeSantis is betting his farm on fighting mask and vaccine mandates. 

How is it good for his economy when half the population is scared to go out due to his efforts (eating at home, seeking online entertainment instead of local live and making online out-of-state purchases instead of shopping local) and the other half is filling up hospitals, wearing out health workers and first responders, missing work, costing taxpayers billions in medical care via subsidies or higher insurance premiums and preventing people with other health problems from getting proper medical care?  Add, this is causing supply chain interruptions and labor shortages due to all the people on the outs.  And, discouraging tourists and events from coming to our state.

After fining local school boards, he now plans to fine local governments.  So much for fighting top-down government.  And, the taxpayers are going to get stuck paying for all the sick employees of these entities.

Pro-vaccine?  He stood idly by while someone falsely claimed vaccines change your RNA.  Another example of him wanting his cake and eat it too.

His lack of leadership and the lengths he is going to for political manipulation are truly astounding.

Quote
WASHINGTON — Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis is threatening to impose hefty fines on city and county governments that require their employees be vaccinated against Covid.

DeSantis said Monday that his state would fine the local governments $5,000 for each employee that is forced to get a vaccine in order to continue working.

The threat stems from a law DeSantis signed in May that bans “governmental entities in Florida from requiring proof of vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from their operations," his office said. "Additionally, the law imposes a $5,000 fine per violation for any entity, including government entities, that asks to see proof of vaccination in Florida.”

The state is preparing to begin enforcing the law on Thursday.

DeSantis said Monday that requirements in the city of Gainesville and Orange and Leon counties that workers must be vaccinated or risk getting fired “should alarm Floridians, and raises important questions.”

“This is political, it’s about using government power to control,” he said. “We’re going to protect these jobs, we’re going to protect livelihoods and we’re going to protect families.”

The governor warned that these mandates will result in “millions and millions of dollars potentially in fines.”

DeSantis’ administration has already been battling school mask mandates. A Florida appeals court late last week allowed the state to continue implementing an order banning mask requirements in schools while the issue is under review.

Last Thursday, President Joe Biden announced that the federal government would mandate Covid vaccines for federal workers and contractors. He also announced an emergency rule requiring all employers with 100 or more employees to require that their workforce is fully vaccinated or that unvaccinated workers produce a negative Covid test at least once a week.

https://news.yahoo.com/florida-gov-desantis-threatens-heavy-115600749.html

Quote
Gov. Ron DeSantis stood by during a Monday press conference as a city employee in Florida falsely claimed the COVID-19 vaccine "changes your RNA."

To promote his campaign against vaccine mandates and passports, DeSantis had invited several employees of the city of Gainesville, which is requiring its public employees to get vaccinated against the coronavirus or face termination, to speak out against the mandates.

The governor highlighted unvaccinated first responders facing the prospect of termination over the mandates, which he argued were unconstitutional. But he made no mention of the pervasive misinformation fueling much of the opposition to the life-saving shots.

"The vaccine changes your RNA, so, for me, that's a problem," the Gainesville man, Darris Friend, said from the podium. "They're taking away our freedom and liberty, little by little. They're using the vaccine for cover. Last year, they took away our religious rights, they're not defending our freedom of speech, and this is just one way to take us to the next step."

The crowd cheered as Friend left the podium, and the governor said nothing to contradict his false claim, a spin-off of a conspiracy theory popular online that the vaccines alter a person's DNA. They do not - a point made repeatedly by scientists and public-health officials including at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

An mRNA-developed vaccine, like those from Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech, uses messenger ribonucleic acid to attach a dummy protein to a cell's outer surface in the muscle to teach the body's immune system how to defeat it; at no time does this enter the cell's nucleus and affect the DNA.

DeSantis' communications director, Taryn Fenske, told Insider the governor "has never said the vaccine changes your RNA, nor is that his opinion."

DeSantis held the press conference, featuring a slew of local elected officials and government employees, to announce his administration would level $5,000-per-infraction fines against any Florida cities and counties requiring government employees to be vaccinated as a term of employment. Florida's GOP-controlled state legislature recently passed a law barring local governments and private businesses from requiring that their employees be vaccinated or that customers be vaccinated to receive services.

The governor threatened "millions and millions of dollars potentially in fines" against local governments. The state is also supporting a lawsuit filed by more than 200 Gainesville public employees against the city's mandate. Friend, the Gainesville employee, is a plaintiff in that suit.

President Joe Biden announced last week that his administration would require employers with more than 100 employees to mandate either vaccination or weekly COVID-19 testing for all employees. He also announced that all federal government employees and contractors would be required to be vaccinated against COVID-19.

DeSantis called the national and local rules "ridiculous, unforeseen expansions of power" and argued that "thousands of thousands" of Floridians would be "coerced out of a job through government power."

"You just throw 'em out like they're chopped liver - that is just fundamentally wrong," DeSantis said. "We're not going to let that happen. We're going to protect these jobs, we're going to protect these peoples' families, we're going to protect their livelihoods."

The governor, who received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, repeatedly said Monday that people were turning down the vaccines because they'd already contracted the coronavirus and had natural immunity or because their doctors advised them against taking it. He repeated his belief that the vaccines should be widely available but that taking them should be a personal choice, and he didn't attest to the safety or efficacy of the vaccines.

https://news.yahoo.com/florida-gov-ron-desantis-let-214652661.html
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jcjohnpaint on September 15, 2021, 08:20:17 PM
Our accreditation in our department at UNF might be cancelled due to NASAD agents not willing to travel to Florida due to safety concerns. They refuse to travel here.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 16, 2021, 04:33:50 PM
It is official:  Idaho now rationing healthcare due to hospitals overwhelmed by unvaccinated COVID patients.

Quote
Idaho hospitals are so overwhelmed with the surge in coronavirus cases that doctors and nurses have to contact dozens of regional hospitals across the West in hopes of finding places to transfer individual critical patients.

The situation has grown so bad that the Idaho Department of Health and Wellness announced Thursday that the entire state is in a hospital resource crisis, permitting medical facilities to ration health care and triage patients.

Kootenai Health, a hospital in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, has already converted a conference room into an overflow Covid unit, started paying traveling nurses $250 an hour and brought in a military medical unit. The hospital received permission from the state to begin rationing care last week. That's all in response to the Covid surge that in recent weeks has taken over much of Idaho — a state with one of the nation's lowest vaccination rates.

"It's just nonstop trying to find placement for these patients and the care that they need," said Brian Whitlock, the president and CEO of the Idaho Hospital Association, who noted that hospitals across the state are struggling with the same issue. "It really is a minute-by-minute assessment of where beds are open, and hospitals saying we don't know where we're going to put the next one."

The need for ICU bed space is affecting a range of patients: those suffering from Covid, as well as people who have had heart attacks or strokes or were involved in accidents, for instance.

Prior to the pandemic, experts said borders between states in the region were blurry when it came to patient care. While many of the states are known for their beautiful scenery and wide open terrains, the access to critical medical care can be difficult for the small rural towns that pepper its landscape. The easiest access to medical treatment might be across a border, rather than within a state's boundaries.

Those state boundaries, however, have become a bit starker as hospitals struggle to keep beds open for patients within their own state.

Health leaders in Washington state said that they are attempting to help their neighbors states, but they are keeping a close eye on their own bed space.

“We’ve had to initiate patient placement committees with physicians at our various hospitals to really assess and prioritize — in conversation with these facilities that are wanting to transfer — to really identify who’s at the most risk for higher level of care and what can be managed where they’re at and what cannot be managed where they’re at,” said Peg Currie, the chief operating officer at Providence Health Care in Spokane, Washington, which is a 40-minute drive from Coeur d’Alene and Kootenai Health.

It’s become an ethical challenge, as Washington has been aggressive in its Covid safety measures while Idaho’s state leaders have done little to address the latest surge.

Dr. Doug White, the director of the University of Pittsburgh's Program on Ethics and Decision Making in Critical Illness, said that while Washington's health care services may feel a moral obligation to help, the need for action falls to Idaho's state government.

"Medical practice is regulated at the state level, public health interventions come at the state level, and so in an emergency like this, I do think that the state lines become very important because what we're seeing is these very stark differences between how Washington state has responded to the pandemic and how Idaho has responded to the pandemic," he said, noting that Washington's aggressive safety measures came at some cost to the state.

But the relationships between these hospitals runs deep.

Dr. David Pate, a member of Idaho's coronavirus task force and the former president and CEO of St. Luke's Health System in Boise, said that because of how far Idaho's towns are from metropolitan areas, it was common prior to the pandemic for doctors to send their patients to cities like Spokane, Salt Lake City, Seattle, Portland, Oregon, and other far-flung cities in the region. It often required patients to be taken by plane or helicopter and close coordination between medical facilities.

Now, he said, doctors are being forced to call 30 or more hospitals across multiple states to find a bed for a single patient in hospitals with which they have little to no relationship. Some doctors in Idaho have called as far south as Texas and as far east as Georgia.

"You're taking seven to eight hours to call a bunch of hospitals to see if one will take your patient who might face a time-sensitive emergency," Pate said. "Seven to eight hours might mean that patient won't survive."

The challenge of transfers added to the pressure for Idaho to establish crisis standards of care, which means doctors can triage patients dependent on bed space availability and health care workers without specific training can be brought in to work in the ICU.

For Idaho's health leaders, the number of hospital transfers that Kootenai Health had to decline because of the Covid surge crystalized the need to change care standards last week.

A regional transfer hub for patients in urgent need of critical care — typically things like car accidents, heart attacks and strokes — Kootenai Health has had to turn down 392 patient transfer requests in the month of August because of their number of Covid patients. From July to the end of September last year, they turned down 18 patient transfers.

Kootenai Health is not the only hospital that is establishing these new care standards and northern Idaho is not the only part of the state that may be implementing them.

When Idaho declared it would ration care in its northern region last week, the state's health and welfare director, Dave Jeppesen, called it a “last resort.”

Earlier this week, he said crisis standards of care were “imminent” for hospitals in the rest of the state given that Idaho continues to set new records for hospitalizations and patients in the intensive care unit and on ventilators due to Covid.

“The numbers are increasing at an alarming rate and we do not see a peak in sight,” he said at a briefing on Tuesday.

In his announcement on Thursday, Jeppesen pleaded with Idaho residents, stating that "best way to end crisis standards of care is for more people to get vaccinated."

"The situation is dire," he said. We don’t have enough resources to adequately treat the patients in our hospitals, whether you are there for COVID-19 or a heart attack or because of a car accident.”

Under critical standards of care, the state allows health care providers to make difficult decisions about how to allocate and use scarce medical resources. That means some patients could go without treatment, as treatment is saved for those most likely to survive.

Idaho is not alone in pursuing this type of care.

Billings Clinic, a 300-bed hospital in Montana, is considering adopting crisis standards of care as its ICU hits 150 percent capacity. Alaska’s largest hospital, Providence Alaska Medical Center in Anchorage, said Tuesday that based on its number of patients they had been “forced within our hospital to implement crisis standards of care.”


Meanwhile, hospitals in Wyoming that are not normally equipped with pediatric beds are struggling to address a wave of pediatric illnesses.

Eric Boley, the president of the state's hospital association, said they typically depend on neighboring states to take critically ill kids.

"We really don't have pediatric beds in our state, so we rely on surrounding states to help us with those," he said. "And we're seeing a big uptick in pediatric cases right now."

It's a frustration for health care leaders across the West, as they struggle to get this latest surge under control.

With few signs that it will let up any time soon, the region's health care systems could be stretched to their breaking point in a region of the country that remains highly skeptical of Covid vaccines and mask mandates.

"It doesn't matter what you believe about Covid right now. What matters is that our health care system's at capacity," said Pate, of Idaho's coronavirus task force. "I'm just asking people, work with us for a month, six weeks — humor us. Be careful, don't get in a large crowd, wear a mask and please do consider getting vaccinated."

https://news.yahoo.com/hospitals-west-struggle-beds-critically-083011541.html
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Charles Hunter on September 16, 2021, 05:11:55 PM
Every unvaccinated person who shows up at one of those hospitals with COVID-19 should be sent home with a tube (or bottle, whatever) of sheep dewormer, along with "thoughts and prayers" of course.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 16, 2021, 11:01:55 PM
So the update that everyone was eagerly anticipating!

If it's not broken; don't fix it, right?

Well...  not enough anti-bodies present to register, so the test came back negative.  So basically just really fortunate to not have had anything else happen in the interim I guess.

Have appt. with CVS tomorrow.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 17, 2021, 01:32:20 AM
^ Welcome to the club.  Thank you for getting vaccinated.

Just imagine how many others are thinking like you but haven't tested to come to the conclusion you just did?  As stated before, no matter what, natural antibodies do not approach the level of vaccines so even if someone tests positive for them they aren't going to have maximum protection.

You were fortunate.  Others are finding out the hard way.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 17, 2021, 03:07:21 AM
So the update that everyone was eagerly anticipating!

If it's not broken; don't fix it, right?

Well...  not enough anti-bodies present to register, so the test came back negative.  So basically just really fortunate to not have had anything else happen in the interim I guess.

Have appt. with CVS tomorrow.

Glad you've been okay! Also, I guess that means that whatever you HAVE been doing has been successful at keeping you safe/healthy/COVID-free.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 17, 2021, 07:07:21 AM
So the update that everyone was eagerly anticipating!

If it's not broken; don't fix it, right?

Well...  not enough anti-bodies present to register, so the test came back negative.  So basically just really fortunate to not have had anything else happen in the interim I guess.

Have appt. with CVS tomorrow.

I'm  happy for you... in many ways...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on September 17, 2021, 08:51:55 AM
So the update that everyone was eagerly anticipating!

If it's not broken; don't fix it, right?

Well...  not enough anti-bodies present to register, so the test came back negative.  So basically just really fortunate to not have had anything else happen in the interim I guess.

Have appt. with CVS tomorrow.
So relieved. Thanks for doing the right thing.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 18, 2021, 10:54:35 PM
Wow, Florida had 1 of every 25 COVID deaths reported globally... And, NE Florida counties leads the state.  While some statistics appear to show improvement, we have a long way to go.  Meanwhile, our governor continues to think Florida is a shining light for handling COVID  >:(.

Quote
Florida accounted for an estimated 1 out of 25 global COVID-19 deaths recorded during the past week, a USA Today Network analysis showed, even as much of the  Jacksonville area continued to show progress in slowing the spread of the coronavirus.

In Duval County, new-case positivity for the week fell to its lowest level since late June.

However, the region's progress in stemming the tide of cases has not prevented COVID-19 deaths — now several weeks removed from the new-case peak in summer — from rising to their highest levels thus far in the coronavirus pandemic for portions of Northeast Florida.

The analysis found that of all the COVID-19 deaths reported worldwide during the one-week period ending Friday, 1 of every 25 was reported by the Florida Department of Health.

The worldwide data compiled by Johns Hopkins University showed that Florida accounted for 18.1 percent of the 13,643 deaths reported this week in the United States, and about 4 percent of the 62,291 recorded around the world.

Data compiled by the Centers for Disease Control showed that Clay County recorded the most deaths per 100,000 residents in Florida during the one-week period from Sept. 6-12: 116 deaths, or 53 per 100,000 residents. Columbia County ranked fourth-most, with Putnam County seventh.

Those statistics were not complete for some counties, including Alachua County.

It's not yet clear why those statistics reported a higher weekly toll for Clay County than for other nearby counties, including Duval County (110), St. Johns County (26) and Nassau County (nine). At some points during the pandemic, deaths have risen in an erratic pattern because of backlogs of reporting deaths, which often have sometimes taken weeks or even months to tabulate in full.

The pattern of rising deaths, however, is apparent across Northeast Florida.

Federal statistics show Duval County with death tolls of 137, 167 and 110 in the last three weeks. During prior stages of the pandemic, Duval County never added more than 76 fatalities from the disease.

St. Johns County had never recorded more than 17 COVID-19 deaths in a week, but has added 34, 20 and 26 in the past three weeks.


Florida also surpassed a grim milestone earlier this week: The state's cumulative death toll now exceeds 50,000 in statistics from the Florida Department of Health, dating back to March 2020.

Hospitalization and case counts, however, continued to decrease across Northeast Florida, in a more favorable sign for the region's summer surge that accompanied the spread of the more-contagious delta variant.

The Florida Hospital Association reported Thursday that total hospitalizations from COVID-19 across the state had decreased below 10,000 for the first time since the early weeks of summer, decreasing 31.5 percent over the past 14 days.

On Friday, Baptist Health Jacksonville announced that hospitalization numbers had diminished to the point where daily public updates would no longer be required.

As of Friday morning, the hospital reported 183 total COVID-19 patients — a decrease of more than 340 in four weeks.

Still, those hospitalization numbers remain well above their patterns from the spring, when Duval County regularly reported new-case positivity rates at or below 5 percent.

During the seven-day span from Sept. 10 to Thursday, the Florida Department of Health recorded 2,529 new cases in Duval County, compared to 3,063 between Sept. 3-9.

Also dropping were Baker County (170 to 91), Clay County (942 to 799), Nassau County (393 to 240) and St. Johns County (1,400 to 1,206).

However, Putnam County recorded a jump in new positive cases, from 486 to 533, while new-case positivity — although decreasing from 23.5 to 22.4 percent — remained among the highest in Florida.

In Duval County, new-case positivity slid to 10.6 percent, the lowest since the 6.9 percent listed for June 18-24.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/09/18/northeast-florida-covid-19-death-toll-continues-record-rise/8315225002/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 18, 2021, 11:17:54 PM
Do ya' think the vaccines have been tested enough?
Quote
The biggest vaccination campaign in history is underway. More than 5.92 billion doses have been administered across 184 countries, according to data collected by Bloomberg. The latest rate was roughly 33.6 million doses a day.

In the U.S., 385 million doses have been given so far. In the last week, an average of 777,010 doses per day were administered.

Enough doses have now been administered to fully vaccinate 38.6% of the global population—but the distribution has been lopsided. Countries and regions with the highest incomes are getting vaccinated more than 20 times faster than those with the lowest.

While the best vaccines are highly effective at preventing hospitalization and death, it takes a coordinated campaign to stop a pandemic. Infectious-disease experts say that vaccinating 70% to 85% of the U.S. population would enable a return to normalcy.

On a global scale, that’s a daunting level of vaccination. At the current pace of 33.6 million a day, the goal of high levels of global immunity remains a long way off. Manufacturing capacity, however, is steadily increasing, and new vaccines by additional manufacturers are coming to market.

Globally, the latest vaccination rate is 33,566,922 doses per day, on average. At this pace, it will take another 6 months to cover 75% of the population.

Israel was first to show that vaccines were bending the curve of Covid infections. The country led the world in early vaccinations, and by February more than 84% of people ages 70 and older had received two doses. Covid cases declined rapidly, and a similar pattern of vaccination and recovery repeated across dozens of other countries.

This progress is under threat. New strains, led by the highly transmissible delta variant, have caused renewed outbreaks. It’s now a life-and-death contest between vaccine and virus. Unvaccinated people are more at risk than ever, leading U.S. health officials to dub it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated.”

Even among those who are vaccinated, the delta variant may lead to mild cases, and those who get sick are able to spread the disease to others, according to the latest data. The vaccines remain effective at preventing hospitalization and death.

Since the start of the global vaccination campaign, countries have experienced unequal access to vaccines and varying degrees of efficiency in getting shots into people’s arms. Before March, few African nations had received a single shipment of shots. In the U.S., 115.9 doses have been administered for every 100 people.

Delivering billions of vaccines to stop the spread of Covid-19 worldwide is one of the greatest logistical challenges ever undertaken.

Roughly half of the U.S. population has been fully vaccinated, and states are flush with supply. The vaccination campaign, however, has slowed. Once the envy of the world for its swift rollout, the U.S. has since been overtaken by dozens of countries. There are still wide gaps between the most and least vaccinated counties in the U.S., leaving many communities vulnerable to continued outbreaks.

Distribution in the U.S. is directed by the federal government. Pfizer and BioNTech’s vaccine, as well as Moderna’s shot both require two doses taken several weeks apart. J&J’s inoculation requires just a single dose. Additional booster shots may be used to enhance protections over time.

So far, 211 million Americans have received at least one dose of a vaccine—82.0% of the adult population. At least 181 million people have completed a vaccination regimen. The U.S. is sending some of its excess supply to other hard-hit regions of the world....

....In the U.S., the latest vaccination rate is 777,010 doses per day, on average. At this pace, it will take another 4 months to cover 75% of the population.

Above story and country by country and state by state tables of how many doses and what percentage of their population is vaccinated is at:  https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 19, 2021, 09:14:07 AM
Quote
Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #493 on: Yesterday at 10:54:35 PM »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Wow, Florida had 1 of every 25 COVID deaths reported globally... And, NE Florida counties leads the state.  While some statistics appear to show improvement, we have a long way to go.  Meanwhile, our governor continues to think Florida is a shining light for handling COVID  >:(.

To be fair...JLT... and you really should try to be... DeSantis and Biden polling numbers numbers with regards to the pandemic are very similar.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 19, 2021, 09:58:27 AM
Quote
Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #493 on: Yesterday at 10:54:35 PM »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Wow, Florida had 1 of every 25 COVID deaths reported globally... And, NE Florida counties leads the state.  While some statistics appear to show improvement, we have a long way to go.  Meanwhile, our governor continues to think Florida is a shining light for handling COVID  >:(.

To be fair...JLT... and you really should try to be... DeSantis and Biden polling numbers numbers with regards to the pandemic are very similar.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

He was talking about how well DeSantis thinks he is handling the pandemic, not how well the public thinks he is. You know, just to be fair and all.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 19, 2021, 10:13:02 AM
Quote
Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #493 on: Yesterday at 10:54:35 PM »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Wow, Florida had 1 of every 25 COVID deaths reported globally... And, NE Florida counties leads the state.  While some statistics appear to show improvement, we have a long way to go.  Meanwhile, our governor continues to think Florida is a shining light for handling COVID  >:(.

To be fair...JLT... and you really should try to be... DeSantis and Biden polling numbers numbers with regards to the pandemic are very similar.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

He was talking about how well DeSantis thinks he is handling the pandemic, not how well the public thinks he is. You know, just to be fair and all.


To be fair... perhaps you should let him tell me what he was talking about. His weekly "pressers" regarding DeSantis failings make me think he has some kind of partisan agenda...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 19, 2021, 11:13:12 AM
Quote
Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #493 on: Yesterday at 10:54:35 PM »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Wow, Florida had 1 of every 25 COVID deaths reported globally... And, NE Florida counties leads the state.  While some statistics appear to show improvement, we have a long way to go.  Meanwhile, our governor continues to think Florida is a shining light for handling COVID  >:(.

To be fair...JLT... and you really should try to be... DeSantis and Biden polling numbers numbers with regards to the pandemic are very similar.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

He was talking about how well DeSantis thinks he is handling the pandemic, not how well the public thinks he is. You know, just to be fair and all.


To be fair... perhaps you should let him tell me what he was talking about. His weekly "pressers" regarding DeSantis failings make me think he has some kind of partisan agenda...

BT - he posted that DeSantis thinks he's doing a good job. You corrected him and said that public opinion for DeSantis and Biden was the same. Maybe you should've asked him what he meant instead of assuming?

In any event, at least my comment was consistent with what he posted originally.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 19, 2021, 01:01:42 PM
Quote
Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #493 on: Yesterday at 10:54:35 PM »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Wow, Florida had 1 of every 25 COVID deaths reported globally... And, NE Florida counties leads the state.  While some statistics appear to show improvement, we have a long way to go.  Meanwhile, our governor continues to think Florida is a shining light for handling COVID  >:(.

To be fair...JLT... and you really should try to be... DeSantis and Biden polling numbers numbers with regards to the pandemic are very similar.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

He was talking about how well DeSantis thinks he is handling the pandemic, not how well the public thinks he is. You know, just to be fair and all.


To be fair... perhaps you should let him tell me what he was talking about. His weekly "pressers" regarding DeSantis failings make me think he has some kind of partisan agenda...

BT - he posted that DeSantis thinks he's doing a good job. You corrected him and said that public opinion for DeSantis and Biden was the same. Maybe you should've asked him what he meant instead of assuming?

In any event, at least my comment was consistent with what he posted originally.

Lol... of course you do...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 19, 2021, 01:12:22 PM
Quote
Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #493 on: Yesterday at 10:54:35 PM »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Wow, Florida had 1 of every 25 COVID deaths reported globally... And, NE Florida counties leads the state.  While some statistics appear to show improvement, we have a long way to go.  Meanwhile, our governor continues to think Florida is a shining light for handling COVID  >:(.

To be fair...JLT... and you really should try to be... DeSantis and Biden polling numbers numbers with regards to the pandemic are very similar.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

He was talking about how well DeSantis thinks he is handling the pandemic, not how well the public thinks he is. You know, just to be fair and all.


To be fair... perhaps you should let him tell me what he was talking about. His weekly "pressers" regarding DeSantis failings make me think he has some kind of partisan agenda...

BT - he posted that DeSantis thinks he's doing a good job. You corrected him and said that public opinion for DeSantis and Biden was the same. Maybe you should've asked him what he meant instead of assuming?

In any event, at least my comment was consistent with what he posted originally.

Lol... of course you do...

Of course I do what?

Seriously, BT - maybe you should see an eye doctor or something.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 19, 2021, 01:29:49 PM
Quote
Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #493 on: Yesterday at 10:54:35 PM »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Wow, Florida had 1 of every 25 COVID deaths reported globally... And, NE Florida counties leads the state.  While some statistics appear to show improvement, we have a long way to go.  Meanwhile, our governor continues to think Florida is a shining light for handling COVID  >:(.

To be fair...JLT... and you really should try to be... DeSantis and Biden polling numbers numbers with regards to the pandemic are very similar.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

He was talking about how well DeSantis thinks he is handling the pandemic, not how well the public thinks he is. You know, just to be fair and all.


To be fair... perhaps you should let him tell me what he was talking about. His weekly "pressers" regarding DeSantis failings make me think he has some kind of partisan agenda...

BT - he posted that DeSantis thinks he's doing a good job. You corrected him and said that public opinion for DeSantis and Biden was the same. Maybe you should've asked him what he meant instead of assuming?

In any event, at least my comment was consistent with what he posted originally.

Lol... of course you do...

Of course I do what?

Seriously, BT - maybe you should see an eye doctor or something.
Quote
Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #493 on: Yesterday at 10:54:35 PM »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Wow, Florida had 1 of every 25 COVID deaths reported globally... And, NE Florida counties leads the state.  While some statistics appear to show improvement, we have a long way to go.  Meanwhile, our governor continues to think Florida is a shining light for handling COVID  >:(.

To be fair...JLT... and you really should try to be... DeSantis and Biden polling numbers numbers with regards to the pandemic are very similar.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

He was talking about how well DeSantis thinks he is handling the pandemic, not how well the public thinks he is. You know, just to be fair and all.


To be fair... perhaps you should let him tell me what he was talking about. His weekly "pressers" regarding DeSantis failings make me think he has some kind of partisan agenda...

BT - he posted that DeSantis thinks he's doing a good job. You corrected him and said that public opinion for DeSantis and Biden was the same. Maybe you should've asked him what he meant instead of assuming?

In any event, at least my comment was consistent with what he posted originally.

Lol... of course you do...

Of course I do what?

Seriously, BT - maybe you should see an eye doctor or something.
I don't take advice from amatures
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 19, 2021, 01:53:05 PM
Quote
Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #493 on: Yesterday at 10:54:35 PM »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Wow, Florida had 1 of every 25 COVID deaths reported globally... And, NE Florida counties leads the state.  While some statistics appear to show improvement, we have a long way to go.  Meanwhile, our governor continues to think Florida is a shining light for handling COVID  >:(.

To be fair...JLT... and you really should try to be... DeSantis and Biden polling numbers numbers with regards to the pandemic are very similar.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

He was talking about how well DeSantis thinks he is handling the pandemic, not how well the public thinks he is. You know, just to be fair and all.


To be fair... perhaps you should let him tell me what he was talking about. His weekly "pressers" regarding DeSantis failings make me think he has some kind of partisan agenda...

My posts are weekly (or more often) because DeSantis provides near-daily fodder for so doing.  Between COVID and his unconstitutional and other feeding-his-political-ambitions pandering actions, there isn't much I can find good about him to post. If he or you don't like it, have him change his behavior.  I am on the side of what I think is good for the citizens of this State, even if it is not necessarily in my best interests.  DeSantis should try acting this way one day.  Until then, the ultimate partisan is DeSantis.  If disagreeing with him and expressing such makes me partisan, so be it.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 19, 2021, 02:06:09 PM
Quote
Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #493 on: Yesterday at 10:54:35 PM »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Wow, Florida had 1 of every 25 COVID deaths reported globally... And, NE Florida counties leads the state.  While some statistics appear to show improvement, we have a long way to go.  Meanwhile, our governor continues to think Florida is a shining light for handling COVID  >:(.

To be fair...JLT... and you really should try to be... DeSantis and Biden polling numbers numbers with regards to the pandemic are very similar.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

He was talking about how well DeSantis thinks he is handling the pandemic, not how well the public thinks he is. You know, just to be fair and all.


To be fair... perhaps you should let him tell me what he was talking about. His weekly "pressers" regarding DeSantis failings make me think he has some kind of partisan agenda...

BT - he posted that DeSantis thinks he's doing a good job. You corrected him and said that public opinion for DeSantis and Biden was the same. Maybe you should've asked him what he meant instead of assuming?

In any event, at least my comment was consistent with what he posted originally.

Lol... of course you do...

Of course I do what?

Seriously, BT - maybe you should see an eye doctor or something.
Quote
Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #493 on: Yesterday at 10:54:35 PM »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Wow, Florida had 1 of every 25 COVID deaths reported globally... And, NE Florida counties leads the state.  While some statistics appear to show improvement, we have a long way to go.  Meanwhile, our governor continues to think Florida is a shining light for handling COVID  >:(.

To be fair...JLT... and you really should try to be... DeSantis and Biden polling numbers numbers with regards to the pandemic are very similar.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

He was talking about how well DeSantis thinks he is handling the pandemic, not how well the public thinks he is. You know, just to be fair and all.


To be fair... perhaps you should let him tell me what he was talking about. His weekly "pressers" regarding DeSantis failings make me think he has some kind of partisan agenda...

BT - he posted that DeSantis thinks he's doing a good job. You corrected him and said that public opinion for DeSantis and Biden was the same. Maybe you should've asked him what he meant instead of assuming?

In any event, at least my comment was consistent with what he posted originally.

Lol... of course you do...

Of course I do what?

Seriously, BT - maybe you should see an eye doctor or something.
I don't take advice from amatures amateurs

FTFY

If you won't take my advice, perhaps you'll take the advice of an expert:

(https://i.imgur.com/E3RjlwP.gif)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 19, 2021, 05:08:41 PM
Quote
Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #493 on: Yesterday at 10:54:35 PM »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Wow, Florida had 1 of every 25 COVID deaths reported globally... And, NE Florida counties leads the state.  While some statistics appear to show improvement, we have a long way to go.  Meanwhile, our governor continues to think Florida is a shining light for handling COVID  >:(.

To be fair...JLT... and you really should try to be... DeSantis and Biden polling numbers numbers with regards to the pandemic are very similar.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

He was talking about how well DeSantis thinks he is handling the pandemic, not how well the public thinks he is. You know, just to be fair and all.


To be fair... perhaps you should let him tell me what he was talking about. His weekly "pressers" regarding DeSantis failings make me think he has some kind of partisan agenda...

BT - he posted that DeSantis thinks he's doing a good job. You corrected him and said that public opinion for DeSantis and Biden was the same. Maybe you should've asked him what he meant instead of assuming?

In any event, at least my comment was consistent with what he posted originally.

Lol... of course you do...

Of course I do what?

Seriously, BT - maybe you should see an eye doctor or something.
Quote
Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #493 on: Yesterday at 10:54:35 PM »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Wow, Florida had 1 of every 25 COVID deaths reported globally... And, NE Florida counties leads the state.  While some statistics appear to show improvement, we have a long way to go.  Meanwhile, our governor continues to think Florida is a shining light for handling COVID  >:(.

To be fair...JLT... and you really should try to be... DeSantis and Biden polling numbers numbers with regards to the pandemic are very similar.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

He was talking about how well DeSantis thinks he is handling the pandemic, not how well the public thinks he is. You know, just to be fair and all.


To be fair... perhaps you should let him tell me what he was talking about. His weekly "pressers" regarding DeSantis failings make me think he has some kind of partisan agenda...

BT - he posted that DeSantis thinks he's doing a good job. You corrected him and said that public opinion for DeSantis and Biden was the same. Maybe you should've asked him what he meant instead of assuming?

In any event, at least my comment was consistent with what he posted originally.

Lol... of course you do...

Of course I do what?

Seriously, BT - maybe you should see an eye doctor or something.
I don't take advice from amatures amateurs

FTFY

If you won't take my advice, perhaps you'll take the advice of an expert:

(https://i.imgur.com/E3RjlwP.gif)
What?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 19, 2021, 05:13:24 PM
Quote
Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #493 on: Yesterday at 10:54:35 PM »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Wow, Florida had 1 of every 25 COVID deaths reported globally... And, NE Florida counties leads the state.  While some statistics appear to show improvement, we have a long way to go.  Meanwhile, our governor continues to think Florida is a shining light for handling COVID  >:(.

To be fair...JLT... and you really should try to be... DeSantis and Biden polling numbers numbers with regards to the pandemic are very similar.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

He was talking about how well DeSantis thinks he is handling the pandemic, not how well the public thinks he is. You know, just to be fair and all.


To be fair... perhaps you should let him tell me what he was talking about. His weekly "pressers" regarding DeSantis failings make me think he has some kind of partisan agenda...

My posts are weekly (or more often) because DeSantis provides near-daily fodder for so doing.  Between COVID and his unconstitutional and other feeding-his-political-ambitions pandering actions, there isn't much I can find good about him to post. If he or you don't like it, have him change his behavior.  I am on the side of what I think is good for the citizens of this State, even if it is not necessarily in my best interests.  DeSantis should try acting this way one day.  Until then, the ultimate partisan is DeSantis.  If disagreeing with him and expressing such makes me partisan, so be it.

Ok... your a partisan.  One man's pander is another's support.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on September 19, 2021, 07:28:54 PM
BT, You once said I was "anti police" because I said I don't think it should be up to the police to decide what constitutes a "riot".  Nothing could be farther from the truth.  I'm not anti police, I was anti DeSantis' mandate on "riots".  A riot would be anything outside his way of thinking and that of his base.  Many of us said it was unconstitutional, and guess what? So did the courts.  His "riot" mandate was bad, and his anti mask, "parents rights"-mandate is too.  My grandkids have no problem wearing their masks and our youngest granddaughter has already had Covid from school.  DeSantis is stirring up anti mask fever among a small minority of cretin parents, who make a lot of ignorant
statements, get letters from Chiropractors to keep masks off their kids, and put moronic ideas in these right wing zealots to keep this pandemic going.  DeSantis is on the wrong side of reality.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 19, 2021, 07:33:59 PM
You should be able to find my quote accusing you of being anti-police.

I'll wait...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 19, 2021, 08:41:51 PM
Ok... your a partisan.  One man's pander is another's support.

LOL.  I guess anyone with an opinion or thought different from you is a "partisan."  I get it.  And what does that make you?  Are you a Trump/DeSantis cultist?

FACT:  COVID is out of control in Florida while DeSantis pretends and acts otherwise.
FACT: Courts have overturned unreasonable laws promoted by DeSantis to "enhance" his standing with the Trump crowd.
FACT:  DeSantis is putting kids and their families at exceptional risk by hindering mask mandates in schools.
FACT: DeSantis has hypocritically taken or usurped many powers (e.g. health, land use, school policy, etc.) away from local entities (e.g. municipal and county governments and school boards) while harping about Washington managing Florida.
FACT:  "Free market" DeSantis has banned businesses from imposing vaccine mandates for their employees and customers.
FACT:  DeSantis, with ambitions for higher office, panders to the Trump crowd and spends lots of time in other states at "events" to promote himself.
FACT:  DeSantis sent law enforcement officers paid by Florida taxpayers to Texas to mettle in the immigrant situation that is the business of Texas and the Feds.
FACT:  DeSantis has refused to take Fed funds (paid by Florida taxpayers) that most every other state has accepted to pay for Medicaid and healthy meals to children while the State complains about the costs of such programs.

I could go on, but, as you can see, there are a lot of "facts" about DeSantis that many, myself included, do not find to our liking.  Again, in your book, that makes me "partisan" I suppose.


Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 20, 2021, 02:30:19 AM
You should be able to find my quote accusing you of being anti-police.

I'll wait...

I believe he was referring to this one:

https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,36890.msg511302.html#msg511302

Quote
Your lack of respect for law enforcement shines through over and over snake...

Of course, you're going to focus on the fact that you literally did not use the words, "anti-police" and completely overlook the meaning of what you typed or the fact that you called him a snake.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 20, 2021, 06:25:20 AM
Since actual words have actual meaning... well... you already know.  Calling him snake is part of his avatar... like being called bridge...or troll... or lake... or taca... or jlt...or even adam.

Do you always butt into other people's conversations?  Kinda weird...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 20, 2021, 06:35:32 AM
Ok... your a partisan.  One man's pander is another's support.

LOL.  I guess anyone with an opinion or thought different from you is a "partisan."  I get it.  And what does that make you?  Are you a Trump/DeSantis cultist?

FACT:  COVID is out of control in Florida while DeSantis pretends and acts otherwise.
FACT: Courts have overturned unreasonable laws promoted by DeSantis to "enhance" his standing with the Trump crowd.
FACT:  DeSantis is putting kids and their families at exceptional risk by hindering mask mandates in schools.
FACT: DeSantis has hypocritically taken or usurped many powers (e.g. health, land use, school policy, etc.) away from local entities (e.g. municipal and county governments and school boards) while harping about Washington managing Florida.
FACT:  "Free market" DeSantis has banned businesses from imposing vaccine mandates for their employees and customers.
FACT:  DeSantis, with ambitions for higher office, panders to the Trump crowd and spends lots of time in other states at "events" to promote himself.
FACT:  DeSantis sent law enforcement officers paid by Florida taxpayers to Texas to mettle in the immigrant situation that is the business of Texas and the Feds.
FACT:  DeSantis has refused to take Fed funds (paid by Florida taxpayers) that most every other state has accepted to pay for Medicaid and healthy meals to children while the State complains about the costs of such programs.

I could go on, but, as you can see, there are a lot of "facts" about DeSantis that many, myself included, do not find to our liking.  Again, in your book, that makes me "partisan" I suppose.




Most of the "facts" you listed contain opinion not fact... especially regarding motives for actions taken.  As for my feeling on Trump and DeSantis... Trump I have denounced numerous times and you should know that.  I  have also stated that I disagree with DeSantis mask mandate for schools (while understanding there is a government overreach issue). Sooo... not partisan... but certainly to the right of your political viewpoints... but that's not really difficult.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 20, 2021, 09:05:31 AM
Since actual words have actual meaning... well... you already know.  Calling him snake is part of his avatar... like being called bridge...or troll... or lake... or taca... or jlt...or even adam.

Do you always butt into other people's conversations?  Kinda weird...

Okay - fair play on the “snake” thing. I totally forgot we were talking about Snaketoz!

As far as butting into other people’s conversations - this is a forum? Doesn’t seem to stop you.

And yes, words have meanings. Which is why “Snake” was right.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 20, 2021, 09:42:56 AM
Since actual words have actual meaning... well... you already know.  Calling him snake is part of his avatar... like being called bridge...or troll... or lake... or taca... or jlt...or even adam.

Do you always butt into other people's conversations?  Kinda weird...

Okay - fair play on the “snake” thing. I totally forgot we were talking about Snaketoz!

As far as butting into other people’s conversations - this is a forum? Doesn’t seem to stop you.

And yes, words have meanings. Which is why “Snake” was right.
Well... if you look back... Mr toz was addressing me specifically rather than the forum as a whole
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Charles Hunter on September 20, 2021, 10:57:04 AM
Since actual words have actual meaning... well... you already know.  Calling him snake is part of his avatar... like being called bridge...or troll... or lake... or taca... or jlt...or even adam.

Do you always butt into other people's conversations?  Kinda weird...

Okay - fair play on the “snake” thing. I totally forgot we were talking about Snaketoz!

As far as butting into other people’s conversations - this is a forum? Doesn’t seem to stop you.

And yes, words have meanings. Which is why “Snake” was right.
Well... if you look back... Mr toz was addressing me specifically rather than the forum as a whole

Am I commenting in an open discussion forum ... or butting into a private conversation? Just a random member of the forum commenting here.
This platform is an open discussion forum. If you want to have a private conversation, use the My Messsages feature of this open discussion forum - or Messenger or some other platform.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 20, 2021, 11:04:23 AM
Since actual words have actual meaning... well... you already know.  Calling him snake is part of his avatar... like being called bridge...or troll... or lake... or taca... or jlt...or even adam.

Do you always butt into other people's conversations?  Kinda weird...

Okay - fair play on the “snake” thing. I totally forgot we were talking about Snaketoz!

As far as butting into other people’s conversations - this is a forum? Doesn’t seem to stop you.

And yes, words have meanings. Which is why “Snake” was right.
Well... if you look back... Mr toz was addressing me specifically rather than the forum as a whole

Am I commenting in an open discussion forum ... or butting into a private conversation? Just a random member of the forum commenting here.
This platform is an open discussion forum. If you want to have a private conversation, use the My Messsages feature of this open discussion forum - or Messenger or some other platform.
Your input is appreciated...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 20, 2021, 11:18:43 AM
Ok... your a partisan.  One man's pander is another's support.

LOL.  I guess anyone with an opinion or thought different from you is a "partisan."  I get it.  And what does that make you?  Are you a Trump/DeSantis cultist?

FACT:  COVID is out of control in Florida while DeSantis pretends and acts otherwise.
FACT: Courts have overturned unreasonable laws promoted by DeSantis to "enhance" his standing with the Trump crowd.
FACT:  DeSantis is putting kids and their families at exceptional risk by hindering mask mandates in schools.
FACT: DeSantis has hypocritically taken or usurped many powers (e.g. health, land use, school policy, etc.) away from local entities (e.g. municipal and county governments and school boards) while harping about Washington managing Florida.
FACT:  "Free market" DeSantis has banned businesses from imposing vaccine mandates for their employees and customers.
FACT:  DeSantis, with ambitions for higher office, panders to the Trump crowd and spends lots of time in other states at "events" to promote himself.
FACT:  DeSantis sent law enforcement officers paid by Florida taxpayers to Texas to mettle in the immigrant situation that is the business of Texas and the Feds.
FACT:  DeSantis has refused to take Fed funds (paid by Florida taxpayers) that most every other state has accepted to pay for Medicaid and healthy meals to children while the State complains about the costs of such programs.

I could go on, but, as you can see, there are a lot of "facts" about DeSantis that many, myself included, do not find to our liking.  Again, in your book, that makes me "partisan" I suppose.




Most of the "facts" you listed contain opinion not fact... especially regarding motives for actions taken.  As for my feeling on Trump and DeSantis... Trump I have denounced numerous times and you should know that.  I  have also stated that I disagree with DeSantis mask mandate for schools (while understanding there is a government overreach issue). Sooo... not partisan... but certainly to the right of your political viewpoints... but that's not really difficult.

LOL. Your title including "troll" is most appropriate.  I will not be "trolled" further on this matter.  8)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on September 20, 2021, 12:47:03 PM
If you love your grandma, get the vaccine.  It isn't perfect, but please tell me anything that is preferable.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 21, 2021, 11:45:46 PM
I saw this "partisan" article and wanted to share it with BridgeTroll so he can tell us how DeSantis's appointment of Florida's new surgeon general shows us the governor is taking COVID seriously.
Quote
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis announced Tuesday that the state's new surgeon general will be Joseph Ladapo, a UCLA researcher known for opposing evidence-based mask mandates, vaccine mandates, and lockdowns.

Instead, Dr. Ladapo advocates for the controversial idea of embracing "the reality of viral spread" to achieve herd immunity.

"Florida will completely reject fear as a way of making policies in public health," Ladapo said in a press conference Tuesday after DeSantis announced his appointment. Fear, he said, has "been unfortunately a centerpiece of health policy in the United States ever since the beginning of the pandemic and it's over here. Expiration date: it's done."

Florida has been one of the hardest-hit states in the pandemic, particularly amid the current wave driven by the hypertransmissible delta coronavirus variant. In early August, the Sunshine State accounted for 20 percent of all COVID-19 cases occurring in the US. Throughout the wave—which is finally receding in Florida—DeSantis has opposed vaccine mandates and fiercely fought mask mandates in schools.

Ladapo appears to share his thinking. In a series of opinion pieces in The Wall Street Journal, Ladapo has argued against mask mandates and vaccine mandates and played up fears about the safety of COVID-19 vaccines, which have been found to be remarkably safe as well as effective. Meanwhile, Ladapo has pointed to unproven and ineffective treatments, such as ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, as treatments for COVID-19.

In the press conference Tuesday, Ladapo declined to say that he would promote vaccines and downplayed their role in helping bring an end to the pandemic.

"The state should be promoting good health, and vaccination isn't the only path to that," Ladapo said. "It's been treated almost like a religion, and that's just senseless. There's a lot of good pathways to health, and vaccination is not the only one. So, we support measures for good health—that's vaccination, losing weight, it's exercising more, it's eating more fruits and vegetables, everything. We support it all."

To be clear, while losing weight, exercising, and eating fruits and vegetables are generally good for health, they will not prevent SARS-CoV-2 infection or transmission.

But preventing spread of the pandemic coronavirus does not appear to be a priority for Ladapo. In the press conference, he noted that he has signed the Great Barrington Declaration, a controversial document written last year that promotes the idea of obtaining herd immunity by allowing the virus to spread.

The document has been roundly rebuked by leading health experts and public health agencies, including the World Health Organization.
"It's scientifically and ethically problematic," WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said of the document at the time. Allowing the virus to run free "means allowing unnecessary infections, suffering, and death," he added.

To date, there have been more than 42 million cases of COVID-19 in the US and more than 676,000 people have died. The COVID-19 pandemic is now the deadliest disease event in US history, exceeding the estimated 675,000 US deaths during the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic.

In addition to being done with fear, Ladapo also said he was done with misinformation. Over the past year, "people have been taking the science, and they've been misrepresenting it," Ladapo said. With DeSantis standing behind him, Ladapo vowed: "That will never be a problem here."

Just last week, DeSantis quietly stood by at another press conference while a Gainesville city employee spread misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines, saying "the vaccine changes your RNA," which is false.

In taking the title of surgeon general, Ladapo will be the top health official in Florida and oversee the state's health department. Ladapo will also be leaving his position at UCLA, where he focused on cardiovascular diseases and the cost-effectiveness of diagnostics. He will take a new position at the University of Florida, he said.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/floridas-new-surgeon-general-skeptical-of-vaccines-opposes-masks/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 22, 2021, 07:11:58 AM
If I were to base the appointment dased solely on the doctors Covid stance as you have done I would agree with you that he is a poor choice. I disagree with the doctors apparent views regarding the treatment of the virus. I wish I could read the Wall Street articles he published. This would provide a more well rounded set of data than the singular partisan article you posted.

I do applaud the additional diversity to the administration and the doctors apparent expertise and focus on cardiovascular health in low income populations. He has published over80 peer reviewed research papers...

https://www.uclahealth.org/providers/joseph-ladapo

Quote
Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD, is a physician and health policy researcher whose primary research interests include assessing the cost-effectiveness of diagnostic technologies and reducing the population burden of cardiovascular disease. He is Associate Professor at the David Geffen School of Medicine and cares for hospitalized patients. Previously, he served as a faculty member in the Department of Population Health at NYU School of Medicine and as a Staff Fellow at the Food and Drug Administration.

Dr. Ladapo's research program, funded by the NHLBI, NIMHD, and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, focuses on (1) patient-centered approaches to improving the health of individuals evaluated for coronary artery disease, and (2) behavioral economic interventions to promote sustainable cardiovascular health, including among adults with HIV. He also leads the health economic and quality of life evaluation of multiple NIH-funded randomized trials focused on cardiovascular disease and tobacco cessation. His national honors include the Daniel Ford Award for health services and outcomes research, and he was also a regular columnist for the Harvard Focus during medical school and residency, where he discussed his experiences on the medical wards and perspectives on health policy issues.

Dr. Ladapo graduated from Wake Forest University and received his MD from Harvard Medical School and his PhD in Health Policy from Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences. He completed his clinical training in internal medicine at the Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center.

https://www.uclahealth.org/sites/default/files/documents/Joseph-Ladapo-CV.pdf

So... to be clear... If I were picking a Covid Czar... Ladapo would not be my pick.  I don't know if he will be a good surgeon general... I need more information.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 22, 2021, 12:20:55 PM
Physicians are professionals trained in the diagnosis and treatment of disease (broadly speaking). They are not scientists. In many ways, getting an opinion from a physician about how to deal with an epidemic is akin to getting an opinion on bridge design from a builder, not a civil engineer.

Doctors are members of a very respected profession. Unfortunately, that *can* lead to them (and other health professionals) being given greater latitude when it comes to opinions on things they really aren't experts in.

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 22, 2021, 12:57:03 PM
If I were to base the appointment dased solely on the doctors Covid stance as you have done I would agree with you that he is a poor choice. I disagree with the doctors apparent views regarding the treatment of the virus. I wish I could read the Wall Street articles he published. This would provide a more well rounded set of data than the singular partisan article you posted.

I do applaud the additional diversity to the administration and the doctors apparent expertise and focus on cardiovascular health in low income populations. He has published over80 peer reviewed research papers...

So... to be clear... If I were picking a Covid Czar... Ladapo would not be my pick.  I don't know if he will be a good surgeon general... I need more information.

Given that COVID is so significant as to overwhelm our medical system's ability to treat most any other ailment and that it is killing thousands of Floridians, I would say this person's approach to managing COVID is really the only serious qualification that matters at this time.  Don't you think it "odd" that DeSantis would find one of the rare medical "professionals" to take this job that also aligns with his perspective on COVID?  Being a great cardiovascular doctor in this position is of almost no use to the State right now.  For that matter, what he is quoted as saying he supports as his "health agenda" is "mom and apple pie" - any doctor would say the same so nothing special about him in that regard.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 22, 2021, 01:20:40 PM
If you have more information than your original article please post.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 22, 2021, 05:35:56 PM
BridgeTroll, here is the latest from your new Florida surgeon general.  All discretion being removed from schools and local health officials. Not one mention of improving cardiovascular health!  His title should be "COVID only GENERAL" to better match how and what he will be doing.

Quote
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. – Florida’s new Surgeon General, Dr. Joseph Ladapo, issued a new emergency rule Wednesday that states parents must be the ones to decide whether their asymptomatic children need to quarantine if they have been exposed to someone who tested positive for the coronavirus.

Gov. Ron DeSantis said parents were concerned about rules that would quarantine healthy students and prevent them from having a “normal functioning school year” and inconvenience their parents. He said parents will be notified of the test result.

“Quarantining healthy students is incredibly damaging ... it’s also incredibly disruptive,” DeSantis said during a news conference in Osceola County.

Commissioner of Education Richard Corcoran celebrated the end of “chronic absenteeism” and he said he was grateful for DeSantis and Ladapo’s decision to issue a “common sense” rule.

Under the rule, parents or legal guardians will decide whether their child “attends school, school-sponsored activities, or be on school property, without restrictions or disparate treatment, so long as the student remains asymptomatic.”

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/09/22/new-fla-surgeon-general-parents-must-decide-whether-asymptomatic-kids-exposed-to-covid-should-quarantine/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 22, 2021, 07:31:19 PM
I think you meant to say... our surgeon general...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 22, 2021, 07:34:34 PM
So the update that everyone was eagerly anticipating!

If it's not broken; don't fix it, right?

Well...  not enough anti-bodies present to register, so the test came back negative.  So basically just really fortunate to not have had anything else happen in the interim I guess.

Have appt. with CVS tomorrow.

Hey bro...since no one has bothered to ask...(myself included  :() How are you doing?  Side effects?  Second thoughts?  I hope all is well...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 22, 2021, 10:17:20 PM
I think you meant to say... our surgeon general...

LOL.  Not my general and, surely, not my surgeon.  I have higher standards.  8)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 22, 2021, 11:44:56 PM
So the update that everyone was eagerly anticipating!

If it's not broken; don't fix it, right?

Well...  not enough anti-bodies present to register, so the test came back negative.  So basically just really fortunate to not have had anything else happen in the interim I guess.

Have appt. with CVS tomorrow.

Hey bro...since no one has bothered to ask...(myself included  :() How are you doing?  Side effects?  Second thoughts?  I hope all is well...

Some have reached out privately, so I kinda left it there.

Nothing more than a sore arm the next day.

I put enough time and energy into making the decision that second thoughts aren't really a thing. 

The only thing that bugs me even a little is that the antibody test came back negative, which makes me wonder if the first test might have been a false positive considering that the testing was still relatively new.

It also tells me that no one really knows how this virus transmits, because I really haven't done anything remotely above the minimum to keep myself protected.  And in addition to it running through our house then (not sure about actual situation), I've been in contact with people who were infected, or at least claimed to be, with zero regard because of my own circumstance.

So, yeah...  all is well here for now.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 23, 2021, 12:49:38 AM
If I were to base the appointment dased solely on the doctors Covid stance as you have done I would agree with you that he is a poor choice. I disagree with the doctors apparent views regarding the treatment of the virus. I wish I could read the Wall Street articles he published. This would provide a more well rounded set of data than the singular partisan article you posted....

....So... to be clear... If I were picking a Covid Czar... Ladapo would not be my pick.  I don't know if he will be a good surgeon general... I need more information.

Here are some thoughts for you from Nate Monroe on your new Florida surgeon general. FYI, this week the jacksonville.com articles are all free to try out:

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/nate-monroe/2021/09/22/monroe-desantis-trades-out-ghost-scott-rivkees-crackpot-joseph-ladapo-new-surgeon-general/5811211001/

You might also search his name in Google News to see the global reaction to this appointment.  The outrage and questioning of DeSantis is widespread.

The real danger is he is associated with numerous conspiracy theories and a spread of gross misinformation.  This will just prolong the dangers of COVID.

Here is a sample of his views.... and the irony at the end with DeSantis saying the "truth" needs to be told while he and his minions do just the opposite.  I stand by my prior commnet that DeSantis comes close to emulating the practices of Nazi propagandists.
Quote
Dr. Ladapo has made a name for himself over the course of the pandemic as someone unafraid to buck the consensus of the U.S. medical establishment. He even appeared in a controversial press conference last summer held on the steps of the U.S. Supreme Court by a little-known group called "America's Frontline Doctors, led by a conspiratorial Texas physician named Stella Immanuel, who is best known for suggesting that certain ailments may be caused by sperm from sexual visitations from demons and/or alien DNA.

At the event, more than a dozen medical professionals — some with spurious qualifications — spread a number of misleading claims, including that both zinc and the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine can "cure" COVID-19 and that masks do not slow the spread of the virus.

Dr. Ladapo, wearing a lab coat emblazoned with an "America's Frontline Doctors" logo, spent time at the podium talking about the "unintended consequences" of COVID-19 safety measures, and touted hydroxychloroquine heavily.

"It's not good for Americans to be hearing just one perspective on this," he said.

Twitter, Facebook and YouTube took steps to remove a video of the press conference shared by the right-wing site Breitbart, but by then it was already too late — both former President Donald Trump and his son, Donald Trump Jr., had shared clips from the event, and before long the entire thing had gone viral among conspiracy theory groups dedicated to anti-vaccine and QAnon content.

n the months since, the group has become a favorite among right-wing media outlets for adding a patina of medical credibility to COVID-19 treatments that pundits can pitch as an alternative to vaccination. Since last summer, both Dr. Ladapo and America's Fronline Doctors have moved on to hawking the anti-parasite drug ivermectin as a treatment to COVID-19 — a development that has caused a run on the version of ivermectin used for livestock and led to a significant increase in poison control calls for those who have ingested it. There is little evidence either ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine work as COVID-19 treatments.....

....Ladapo has not announced any new COVID-19 safety measures, though when asked about future actions at Tuesday's press conference DeSantis did offer a hint at what he believed the job should be — saying that his new medical official would tell "the truth."

"Telling the truth is important … and I think that's what Dr. Ladapo understands," DeSantis said. "You've got to tell people the truth, and you've got to let them make decisions."​​

https://www.salon.com/2021/09/22/floridas-new-surgeon-general-dr-joseph-ladapo-has-ties-to-fringe-group-pushing-bogus-cures/

Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 23, 2021, 06:59:03 AM
JLT... I know you are smart enough to understand the difference between an opinion article and an article with actual verifiable facts. The Monroe article is simply a opinion piece. It may contain "truth " but so far I seem to be forced to take the words of the pundits... as all words from Ladapo himself seems to be behind a paywall or erased from the internet. I would love to read an article or paper written by him rather than what reporters are telling me he said or did.

Still looking... BTW... just as DeSantis and Biden are your governor and president... Ladapo is your SG...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 23, 2021, 07:06:13 AM
Found one... please read.  This was written by Ladapo early in the infection prior to vaccination availability...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/03/24/coronavirus-shutdowns-worth-public-health-system-unprepared-column/2898324001/
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 23, 2021, 07:20:03 AM
Here is another. This is a WSJ article  written by Ladapo that wasn't behind a paywall... Yep...he is a fringe Covid researcher promoting ivermectine, hydroxychloroquine, and such.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/too-much-caution-is-killing-covid-patients-11606238928?mod=opinion_lead_pos6

I finally was able to find and see the facts for myself rather than what someone infers or "reports" and came to the conclusion that I do not support our new SG...
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: tufsu1 on September 23, 2021, 09:30:52 AM
Update from Israel:

There are about 700 people in serious condition. Of those 450 are unvaccinated, 175 received two shots, and 75 received the booster.

Now adjust for vaccination status, where 20% remain unvaccinated, 35% have two shots, and 45% have three shots...

Unvaccinated people are 4.5x more likely to develop serious illness than those with 2 shots - and 13.5x more likely than those with 3 shots.

And the scales continue tilting - 65% of yesterday's positive cases were among the unvaccinated - and they are only 20% of the population!
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: vicupstate on September 23, 2021, 04:27:01 PM
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/458805-diaz-review-vaccine-mandates/ (https://floridapolitics.com/archives/458805-diaz-review-vaccine-mandates/)

Florida’s ongoing response to the COVID-19 pandemic will continue to be a major focus during the 2022 Legislative Session for Sen. Manny Diaz, the top Republican shaping health care policy in the upper chamber.

His work could include revisiting existing vaccine requirements long in place in schools, a response to the debate about whether COVID-19 vaccines should also be required.

Diaz, who came down with COVID-19 last winter, said he wants to review the state’s vaccination efforts as well as Gov. Ron DeSantis’ work on getting monoclonal antibody treatments to those who test positive for COVID-19.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 23, 2021, 05:58:54 PM
^ It is bad enough that people are resisting vaccines and masks.  But the changeover from passive resistance to militancy is really beyond the pale.  It is no longer satisfying to resisters to exercise their "freedom" but now they want the rest of us to capitulate to their standards.  I note a restaurant just threw out a couple in Texas who voluntarily wore masks because the restaurant would not serve anyone wearing one.  Just another unnecessary wedge brought to us by Trump & Co.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 23, 2021, 06:13:17 PM
Here is another. This is a WSJ article  written by Ladapo that wasn't behind a paywall... Yep...he is a fringe Covid researcher promoting ivermectine, hydroxychloroquine, and such.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/too-much-caution-is-killing-covid-patients-11606238928?mod=opinion_lead_pos6

I finally was able to find and see the facts for myself rather than what someone infers or "reports" and came to the conclusion that I do not support our new SG...

BridgeTroll, while we may not agree fully on how we process performances and attributes of pubic officials, I am glad you arrived, in this case at least, to the same conclusion I have with respect to this surgeon general.  Best regards.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 23, 2021, 06:57:45 PM
No worries. I need to evaluate information unfiltered. I find that pundits and reporters have their own shadings and agendas filtering the news they are supposed to report unbiased. Most are extremely biased and not to be trusted without back checking.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on September 23, 2021, 07:22:19 PM
I have a feeling that Florida's new surgeon general will have a very short time in his position.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Charles Hunter on September 23, 2021, 09:29:13 PM
I have a feeling that Florida's new surgeon general will have a very short time in his position.

Why? He is exactly what Gov. Desantis wants. He gives "medical expertise" to their unscientific ravings.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 24, 2021, 06:46:13 AM
I have a feeling that Florida's new surgeon general will have a very short time in his position.

Why? He is exactly what Gov. Desantis wants. He gives "medical expertise" to their unscientific ravings.
Question:  What would you change of DeSantis Covid policies besides the SG appointment and the school mask mandate issue?
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 24, 2021, 07:08:32 AM
DeSantis defies Biden...

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/09/23/desantis-bringing-in-3000-doses-of-new-covid-19-treatment-after-biden-administration-diverts-supply/

Quote
TAMPA – Gov. Ron DeSantis on Thursday announced the state is purchasing 3,000 doses of a new monoclonal antibody treatment after the Biden administration made the decision last week to limit the number of Regeneron doses received by Florida and other states.

DeSantis said the new doses coming to the state will be sotrovimab, a single-dose monoclonal antibody manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline that was granted emergency use authorization by the FDA in May.

The supply of Regeneron, which the state has used at 25 treatment sites across Florida, has dropped off dramatically, according to DeSantis....
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Snaketoz on September 24, 2021, 08:34:25 AM
I have a feeling that Florida's new surgeon general will have a very short time in his position.

Why? He is exactly what Gov. Desantis wants. He gives "medical expertise" to their unscientific ravings.
He has an ego.  Don't think he will withstand the critics of DeSantis' policies.  After signing the "Great Barrington Declaration", he changed his tune by saying he didn't agree with half of it.  The chemistry is a sure problem.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: tufsu1 on September 24, 2021, 09:06:59 AM
DeSantis defies Biden...

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/09/23/desantis-bringing-in-3000-doses-of-new-covid-19-treatment-after-biden-administration-diverts-supply/

Quote
TAMPA – Gov. Ron DeSantis on Thursday announced the state is purchasing 3,000 doses of a new monoclonal antibody treatment after the Biden administration made the decision last week to limit the number of Regeneron doses received by Florida and other states.

DeSantis said the new doses coming to the state will be sotrovimab, a single-dose monoclonal antibody manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline that was granted emergency use authorization by the FDA in May.

The supply of Regeneron, which the state has used at 25 treatment sites across Florida, has dropped off dramatically, according to DeSantis....

I would submit he isn't defying Biden - he found another treatment.

Fact is the Biden administration is right to re-balance Regeneron shipments - it made sense for the south to have the majority over the past two months while the virus was rampant. Now it is receding there, and increasing in areas of the upper midwest and (to some extent) the northeast. 
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Adam White on September 24, 2021, 10:26:15 AM
DeSantis defies Biden...

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/09/23/desantis-bringing-in-3000-doses-of-new-covid-19-treatment-after-biden-administration-diverts-supply/

Quote
TAMPA – Gov. Ron DeSantis on Thursday announced the state is purchasing 3,000 doses of a new monoclonal antibody treatment after the Biden administration made the decision last week to limit the number of Regeneron doses received by Florida and other states.

DeSantis said the new doses coming to the state will be sotrovimab, a single-dose monoclonal antibody manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline that was granted emergency use authorization by the FDA in May.

The supply of Regeneron, which the state has used at 25 treatment sites across Florida, has dropped off dramatically, according to DeSantis....

I would submit he isn't defying Biden - he found another treatment.

Fact is the Biden administration is right to re-balance Regeneron shipments - it made sense for the south to have the majority over the past two months while the virus was rampant. Now it is receding there, and increasing in areas of the upper midwest and (to some extent) the northeast.

Yeah, I don't see that he defied anyone.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 24, 2021, 01:24:03 PM
Rofl... it was my tongue in cheek headline to mimic similar hyperbolic JLT headlines
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 24, 2021, 01:34:27 PM
Rofl... it was my tongue in cheek headline to mimic similar hyperbolic JLT headlines

Which of my headlines is hyperbolic?  ::)
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: jaxlongtimer on October 03, 2021, 01:13:26 AM
An interesting but sad way to have to make a point about Florida's new "surgeon general" (in quotes because I think he is totally unqualified for the job):
Quote
After a family member died of Covid-19, a man took aim at Florida's top health official in sarcastic letter

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/01/us/covid-19-letter-to-the-editor-tampa-bay-times/index.html
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on October 26, 2021, 12:41:58 PM
Bl8rjax, stop posting this anti-vax shit. I’ve warned you repeatedly. I’m not doing it again.

Posting an article in _SCIENCE_ magasine  that speaks to a peer-reviewed article is anti-vax shit?

That sort of puerile rejection of scientific work smells like someone who suffers from narcissism.   
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: bl8jaxnative on October 26, 2021, 12:50:59 PM
^ Did you struggle this much with all of your required vaccines, or just this one?

Lunican, unless you work for a hospital or something similar, it's highly unlikely you were required to prove any vaccinations before being employed.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: Tacachale on October 26, 2021, 02:23:43 PM
Bl8rjax, stop posting this anti-vax shit. I’ve warned you repeatedly. I’m not doing it again.

Posting an article in _SCIENCE_ magasine  that speaks to a peer-reviewed article is anti-vax shit?

That sort of puerile rejection of scientific work smells like someone who suffers from narcissism.

1. You didn't post anything from Science magazine (or "_SCIENCE_ magasine").
2. I'm one of the owners of this website.
3. Bye.
Title: Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
Post by: BridgeTroll on October 26, 2021, 05:13:00 PM
^ Did you struggle this much with all of your required vaccines, or just this one?

Lunican, unless you work for a hospital or something similar, it's highly unlikely you were required to prove any vaccinations before being employed.

Many major employers are requiring vaccination or be terminated. (Florida Blue)