The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: Tacachale on May 26, 2021, 10:40:59 AM

Title: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: Tacachale on May 26, 2021, 10:40:59 AM
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Miscellaneous/DIA-rebranding-survey/i-LZLFPRz/0/63878744/X2/NoCo 1-X2.jpg)

Quote
The Downtown Investment Authority has released a survey floating a variety of rebranding options for Downtown neighborhoods. Included in the options are new names for the Northbank that feature all hip swagger of an insurance commercial: 'NoCo' and 'SoBa.' Here are four ways this project misses the mark – and what to do about it.

Read more: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/noco-no-go-4-reasons-to-ax-dias-downtown-rebrand/

Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: CityLife on May 26, 2021, 12:21:19 PM
Very nicely done Bill!

They clearly should have done a better job workshopping ideas and concepts with the public before even getting into the design phase. Did they do any public outreach at all or was this all DIA/consultant driven?
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: Tacachale on May 26, 2021, 01:45:57 PM
Very nicely done Bill!

They clearly should have done a better job workshopping ideas and concepts with the public before even getting into the design phase. Did they do any public outreach at all or was this all DIA/consultant driven?

Thanks! I don't know for sure what kind of outreach they might have done, but the first I and everyone else I spoke to heard of this was when the survey came out. I expect if there had been much if any public input or workshopping, at least the South Park thing would have come up, considering it took literally only hours for it to come up in our social media and forums. Or leaving out African Americans (!) from the LaVilla vision statement. I expect this was all an internal thing with DIA and their consultants.
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: thelakelander on May 26, 2021, 02:41:56 PM
Very nicely done Bill!

They clearly should have done a better job workshopping ideas and concepts with the public before even getting into the design phase. Did they do any public outreach at all or was this all DIA/consultant driven?

There was some limited out outreach with a select number of stakeholders identified. I was one of the stakeholders notified. However, the virtual meeting notices came out like a couple of days before the meetings (sometimes around 24-72 hours before the meetings). Unfortunately, I couldn't make any of them on short notice. As a general rule to thumb, you really need a good month of public notification to allow the public the opportunity to work meeting dates into their schedules.
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: Tacachale on May 26, 2021, 03:07:34 PM
Very nicely done Bill!

They clearly should have done a better job workshopping ideas and concepts with the public before even getting into the design phase. Did they do any public outreach at all or was this all DIA/consultant driven?

There was some limited out outreach with a select number of stakeholders identified. I was one of the stakeholders notified. However, the virtual meeting notices came out like a couple of days before the meetings (sometimes around 24-72 hours before the meetings). Unfortunately, I couldn't make any of them on short notice. As a general rule to thumb, you really need a good month of public notification to allow the public the opportunity to work meeting dates into their schedules.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. So it's a problem of how they did their outreach rather than total lack of outreach. I can't imagine they got many responses for it to look this way.
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: bl8jaxnative on June 07, 2021, 04:30:41 PM

Any rumors about what they're up with all of this?
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: Tacachale on June 07, 2021, 04:42:29 PM
Lol, they’ve been eerily quiet.
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: thelakelander on June 08, 2021, 08:23:29 AM
I believe a meeting is planned about rebranding the Cathedral District into Cathedral Hill.
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: Captain Zissou on June 08, 2021, 09:26:01 AM
I believe a meeting is planned about rebranding the Cathedral District into Cathedral Hill.

Why though?  The Cathedral District is already a brand and it works.  Not to mention the hill is maybe 10 feet tall.  Lets rebrand the shipyards the Meadowlands.  Hogans creek area can be Downtown Canyon.  The landing will be the Prairie...  Just WHY?
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: simms3 on June 08, 2021, 10:37:04 AM
Once again, they want to copy.  There is literally already a cathedral hill in San Francisco, and it would be no surprise if there were a couple more already.  The Cathedral District actually sounds just as good and to have "hill" in the name in Jacksonville would give quite a few people a belly laugh.

What prompted this massive desire to rename and rebrand everything???  Which firms are bilking the people working at the City and thus bilking the taxpayers?  This is so silly...
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: thelakelander on June 08, 2021, 10:49:03 AM
I agree, it is pretty silly. Names like the Cathedral District, LaVilla, Northbank, Southbank, etc. are fine as is. The money allocated for rebranding would have been better used in a proper Downtown master planning effort.
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: jaxjags on June 08, 2021, 11:02:55 AM
They can call them what they want but, locals will still use the terms above.
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: CityLife on June 08, 2021, 11:25:02 AM
I believe a meeting is planned about rebranding the Cathedral District into Cathedral Hill.

I was 100% sure this was satire, until further reading the thread.

Bold strategy to double down on rebranding.

Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: Tacachale on June 08, 2021, 04:44:50 PM
It's worth noting that while contrived neighborhood renamings are common, and many end up being adopted into common parlance, they're usually led by realtors and developers rather than the city government. There are other cases where a city government is involved, for example Charlotte's renaming of its Downtown to Uptown in the 1970s. One has to wonder why the city felt this was a good use of its time and resources.
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: Tacachale on June 08, 2021, 04:49:30 PM
And yes, "Cathedral Hill" is at best a pointless change to a name that isn't better in any measurable way than the burgeoning "Cathedral District" name and brand. In marketing, it's bad practice to mess with the brand when you don't have a good reason to do so. Changing things just to change them is a waste.
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: Tacachale on June 08, 2021, 05:25:53 PM
I'm creating a list of areas with "District" in the name that have not been changed to "Hill," "Heights" or "Hill Heights":

Gaslamp District, San Diego
Leather District, Boston
Ladder District, Boston
Seaport District, Boston
Wynwood Art District and Wynwood Fashion District, Miami
International District, Seattle
University District, Seattle
Centennial Park District, Atlanta
Mill District, Minneapolis

Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: marcuscnelson on June 09, 2021, 12:19:45 AM
It's very strange overall, because to an extent I am supportive of putting some importance on branding. The way we present ourselves to the world is important. But it's supposed to be derived of what the community envisions for itself, not just DIA + a consultant haphazardly putting new signs up.

And to see them burning effort on this while they're actively getting in the way of a big potential project for "NoCo" because their feelings are hurt seems like an insult to the process.
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: Fallen Buckeye on June 09, 2021, 01:34:14 PM
As a marketer myself, I'm bothered by lots of stuff with the whole brand strategy presented. At a foundational level, we have to ask what is the reason we want these neighborhoods to have strong independent brands. The most obvious answer is that these neighborhood brands strengthen the core brand of Jacksonville as a city with distinct and interesting urban areas to explore. In essence, the sub-brand is at the service of the core brand. It's very similar to how each model of a car has its own brand with specific features aimed at specific niches, but together these contribute to (or detract from) the core brand of the maker.

No one has really identified the core audience for these distinct neighborhoods and how they can speak to that audience. It seems to be mostly, "Oh. This looks good." More importantly, they don't seem to have given thought to how all of the disparate neighborhood brands contribute to and visually tie into the core brand of urban Jacksonville. The logo they came up with for Downtown Jax is more like a neat t-shirt design than an actual brand identity.

As Tachadale said, change for change's sake is wasteful. They need to consider the brand equity that has been built so far and see if it's worth losing that before starting over. North bank and south bank have a couple of things going for them. One, they call attention to the fact we have a great asset in the St. Johns river. Second, they're easily identifiable directionally, especially in the context of I-95. I'd leave it alone personally and focus on the other pieces I mentioned. This effort needs a complete restart.
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: Ken_FSU on June 10, 2021, 05:08:26 PM
Per Lori Boyer, the rebrands will be part of the "master plan" that the DIA is wrapping up for downtown.

::Gulp::
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: WAJAS on June 10, 2021, 10:47:42 PM
It's worth noting that while contrived neighborhood renamings are common, and many end up being adopted into common parlance, they're usually led by realtors and developers rather than the city government. There are other cases where a city government is involved, for example Charlotte's renaming of its Downtown to Uptown in the 1970s. One has to wonder why the city felt this was a good use of its time and resources.
A good local example is the recent renaming of the Uptown area in Orlando to North Quarter, which was championed by developers in the area as new residential was added in bulk over the past decade.
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: bl8jaxnative on June 11, 2021, 11:53:23 AM
I'm creating a list of areas with "District" in the name that have not been changed to "Hill," "Heights" or "Hill Heights":

Gaslamp District, San Diego
Leather District, Boston
Ladder District, Boston
Seaport District, Boston
Wynwood Art District and Wynwood Fashion District, Miami
International District, Seattle
University District, Seattle
Centennial Park District, Atlanta
Mill District, Minneapolis

MPLS' mill district was really just downtown until the 1990s when folks realized branding it and giving it a name could help create a story and value for development.    Give them another 30 years and they'll change the name ;-)


Back in the 1980s it was mostly some old silos + surface parking lots.   

https://www.aerialarchives.com/Aerial-Photographs-of-Minneapolis.htm


This is coming from the other way, 1997.  This is when the whole name was came up with, developers got the city to save the whole Soo Line depot and things took off from there.

https://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2018/04/how-depot-saved-downtown-minneapolis/
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: bl8jaxnative on June 11, 2021, 11:54:53 AM

No one has really identified the core audience for these distinct neighborhoods and how they can speak to that audience. It seems to be mostly, "Oh. This looks good." More importantly, they don't seem to have given thought to how all of the disparate neighborhood brands contribute to and visually tie into the core brand of urban Jacksonville. The logo they came up with for Downtown Jax is more like a neat t-shirt design than an actual brand identity.



SOunds like a version of what others state, there's no real deep long term vision
Title: Re: NoCo No-Go: 4 reasons to ax DIA's Downtown rebrand
Post by: jaxoNOLE on June 12, 2021, 01:38:46 AM

No one has really identified the core audience for these distinct neighborhoods and how they can speak to that audience. It seems to be mostly, "Oh. This looks good."

The effort would have at least a little credibility if this were true. But the concepts don't look good. Many of them look like stock backgrounds from PowerPoint 2003. "Looks good,  but isn't authentic" would be far ahead of where they are. "Complete restart" is a spot-on assessment.