The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: thelakelander on March 14, 2021, 11:59:25 PM

Title: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: thelakelander on March 14, 2021, 11:59:25 PM
Downtown needs a lot of things but I never thought of a golf course as being one of the missing elements:

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/opinion/2021/03/14/editorial-isnt-time-downtown-had-golf-course/4649990001/
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 15, 2021, 01:17:53 AM
I find it very telling that whoever wrote this wasn't willing to put their name to it. I wonder where that person lives, because I seriously doubt it's downtown. Seeing as golf courses across the country have been collapsing because way too few people are willing to pay the cost of playing golf to justify the amount of infrastructure it requires, not to mention the immense waste of land and water (how are acres of grass supposed to help with carbon sequestration as opposed to trees?), this is an insulting premise.

More, importantly, Brentwood Golf Course is right there. To fit something about the same size downtown, you'd need the entirety of the Shipyards and Metro Park, or most of Hogan's Creek parks. Either this person has no idea how much space 9 holes of golf actually takes up, or… honestly I'm not sure what else it could be.

What a joke.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: Charles Hunter on March 15, 2021, 07:15:25 AM
No. Downtown does not need a golf course. Absurd.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: fieldafm on March 15, 2021, 07:35:54 AM
This isn't a new idea.

The River City Renaissance plan initially wanted to level LaVilla for a golf course.

If we are bringing up dumb plans from the past, let's also revive the plans to put floating nuclear plants in the river and finally build that river bridge through Ortega and San Jose.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: jcjohnpaint on March 15, 2021, 09:51:23 AM
I remember somebody telling me a story when I moved here about a city leader who wanted to build one over LaVilla.  So funny and so scary. Anyone remember this?
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: Steve on March 15, 2021, 10:02:48 AM
The late Jack Diamond tried to sell a few of us on this one. None of us were buying.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on March 15, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
An indoor golf simulator of some sort might be a fun feature for people to enjoy downtown; there used to be one in the 1960 Barnett building at Laura and Adams.  But a full golf course...no further elaboration needed on why that idea is bonkers.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: Tacachale on March 15, 2021, 12:18:39 PM
I find it very telling that whoever wrote this wasn't willing to put their name to it. I wonder where that person lives, because I seriously doubt it's downtown. Seeing as golf courses across the country have been collapsing because way too few people are willing to pay the cost of playing golf to justify the amount of infrastructure it requires, not to mention the immense waste of land and water (how are acres of grass supposed to help with carbon sequestration as opposed to trees?), this is an insulting premise.

More, importantly, Brentwood Golf Course is right there. To fit something about the same size downtown, you'd need the entirety of the Shipyards and Metro Park, or most of Hogan's Creek parks. Either this person has no idea how much space 9 holes of golf actually takes up, or… honestly I'm not sure what else it could be.

What a joke.

This isn't anonymous. It's the Times-Union editorial board.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 15, 2021, 12:21:23 PM
Size-wise, we could replace the Fairgrounds with a Topgolf. I'm not sure there's anywhere else large and rectangular enough to fit one.

But that's still assuming that golf really is in such demand that anyone besides the author of this article is looking to build one. And again, Brentwood is right there.

This isn't anonymous. It's the Times-Union editorial board.

I'm not entirely sure I buy that the entire editorial board decided to put this article together and send it out.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: jaxjags on March 15, 2021, 01:20:20 PM
Too early for April Fools?
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: thelakelander on March 15, 2021, 01:41:31 PM
Size-wise, we could replace the Fairgrounds with a Topgolf. I'm not sure there's anywhere else large and rectangular enough to fit one.

But that's still assuming that golf really is in such demand that anyone besides the author of this article is looking to build one. And again, Brentwood is right there.

This isn't anonymous. It's the Times-Union editorial board.

I'm not entirely sure I buy that the entire editorial board decided to put this article together and send it out.

I can't imagine that golf is in demand for downtown or even logical. Especially when looking at the on-going demographic shift in Duval County. I wonder how this idea could make it far enough for the editorial board to publish it?
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: landfall on March 15, 2021, 02:06:56 PM
Theres already a topgolf in the southside.

One of the major problems with this city is people constantly trying to swing for the fences with "game changing" ideas. Journalists, developers, politicians, residents. A golf course ha! Heard it all now.

What the city needs is realistic achievable mixed use projects. More Laura Street Trio, Barnett Bank, Independent Life and the Ford on Bay or Berkman Plaza if they don't die a death. Less fucking golf courses and four seasons hotels.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: thelakelander on March 15, 2021, 02:16:45 PM
What the city needs is realistic achievable mixed use projects. More Laura Street Trio, Barnett Bank, Independent Life and the Ford on Bay or Berkman Plaza if they don't die a death. Less fucking golf courses and four seasons hotels.

^Yes, all the non sexy, non headline catching things. Keep clustering the realistic achievable mixed use projects and the rest will literally take care of itself.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: itsfantastic1 on March 15, 2021, 02:25:54 PM
What the city needs is realistic achievable mixed use projects. More Laura Street Trio, Barnett Bank, Independent Life and the Ford on Bay or Berkman Plaza if they don't die a death. Less fucking golf courses and four seasons hotels.

^Yes, all the non sexy, non headline catching things. Keep clustering the realistic achievable mixed use projects and the rest will literally take care of itself.

#Make Clustering Sexy Again... ;D
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: edjax on March 15, 2021, 02:37:53 PM
The one time a week the editorial is actually local and this is what they come up with??!!!  I guess perhaps getting the editorials in our paper Fromm Daytona, Gainesville and Palm Beach maybe is the route they should continue with at this point.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 15, 2021, 03:22:40 PM
What the city needs is realistic achievable mixed use projects. More Laura Street Trio, Barnett Bank, Independent Life and the Ford on Bay or Berkman Plaza if they don't die a death. Less fucking golf courses and four seasons hotels.

^Yes, all the non sexy, non headline catching things. Keep clustering the realistic achievable mixed use projects and the rest will literally take care of itself.

I know there's a Topgolf at SJTC, that's why I brought it up. It still makes zero sense, I was just pointing out where one could perhaps fit size-wise.

And the way I see it, you can make almost anything sexy and headline-catching if you put some effort into it. Celebrate the Trio, and Barnett, and Independent Life. Make a whole hoopla over creating a "truly urban neighborhood in the heart of downtown" or however you want to spin it. For Pete's sake people lost their minds for a few days over rental scooters downtown. Surely some ribbon cuttings can garner at least that much excitement.

In other news, it's funny to think about this versus my dunk on Rory Diamond the other day over him whining about how expensive the Trio is:

(https://preview.redd.it/a6kbx9jqytm61.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a39c630afdf4d0b2fc540c8abc99502b3916a260)
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: landfall on March 15, 2021, 03:47:53 PM
Sorry didn't mean it to come across like I was digging you up, I know with your knowledge of the city you were probably aware of that already.

Sadly renovation of a historic building located in the heart of the city doesn't grab the fancy headlines like artist impressions of skyscrapers or a zany tourist attraction on the riverfront does.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: jaxlongtimer on March 15, 2021, 05:57:59 PM
After the deals to sell JEA, invest another $380 million in the AV-Skyway, put a Four Seasons at Metro Park, tear down the Landing, put a courthouse in the middle of Monroe Street and building out Lot J for several hundred million dollars, a golf course downtown may look relatively sane. ;D.

Don't forget, we also had/have the amusement park at Berkman, a ship of little renown for the Shipyards, the District, a couple of 70+/- story high rises.... and so on.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: AdamsOnAdams on March 17, 2021, 01:49:04 PM
I can't see a golf course ever happening, but I did hear some talk about turning Lenny's Lawn into the world's largest urban putting green.  ;D
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: Florida Power And Light on March 17, 2021, 09:58:28 PM
Nine hole par 3 on Southbank/ JEA tract.
With that much potential, imagine a sprawling public Lands Park.
We could name some feature after John Rood and Downtown Development “ Authority”. 
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: fieldafm on March 23, 2021, 03:51:00 PM
For those that didn't watch TPC coverage a few weeks ago, the Golf Channel had a segment on the Brentwood Golf Course.

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/brentwood-four-golfers-fought-desegregate-city-jacksonville (https://www.golfchannel.com/video/brentwood-four-golfers-fought-desegregate-city-jacksonville)

Which led me to think about this article:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/lost-history-lincoln-golf-and-country-club/ (https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/lost-history-lincoln-golf-and-country-club/)


Unfortunately, the Times Union's Gary Smits was incorrect when he noted that the Brentwood case was the first time any court de-segrated anything in Jacksonville. Douglas Wetmore successfully repealed the Avery Law which segregated street cars via the State of Florida Supreme Court in 1907, as part of streetcar boycotts in Jacksonville that predated the actions of Rosa Parks by over 50 years.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: Captain Zissou on March 24, 2021, 09:56:49 AM
My nephew is on a golf team that grew out of the First Tee program at Brentwood.  They recently beat a team from sawgrass for the first time.  As a result, the PGA gave Brentwood and the program a check for $10,000.  I may not have all the facts right as I'm hearing this second hand, but it sounds like a nice feel good story.

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/players-championship-gifts-brentwood-based-youth-golf-team-10000/IHAKY7HUH5GDXEFCH4BKRAOAME/
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: heights unknown on April 19, 2021, 02:53:28 PM
The old Landing site would be perfect.......for a putt putt golf course! I'm sure Lenny Curry can handle this one.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: Steve on April 20, 2021, 07:44:56 AM
In all seriousness, my wife and I did City Mini Golf in Maggie Daley Park in Chicago. Totally awesome-it was a semi-portable mini golf setup in the park where the majority of the holes were Chicago-themed. Awesome park amenity.

It wasn’t like a “destination” thing, like we didn’t set our that morning to do it; we just explored Grant Park and walked over (the two parks are connected by a ramp over Lake Shore Drive) and found it.

Of course, this works because Chicago’s urban lakefront parks are really first class.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: Tacachale on April 20, 2021, 12:33:44 PM
In all seriousness, my wife and I did City Mini Golf in Maggie Daley Park in Chicago. Totally awesome-it was a semi-portable mini golf setup in the park where the majority of the holes were Chicago-themed. Awesome park amenity.

It wasn’t like a “destination” thing, like we didn’t set our that morning to do it; we just explored Grant Park and walked over (the two parks are connected by a ramp over Lake Shore Drive) and found it.

Of course, this works because Chicago’s urban lakefront parks are really first class.

Another reason to bring Sexy Rexy downtown!
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: CityLife on April 20, 2021, 01:48:15 PM
Obviously the idea of having a full course downtown is a bad idea and not feasible, but not having a solid 18 hole course within or even near the urban core IS a weakness. Fortunately, many other cities have the same problem, but it is a big strength for those that do.

A fairly substantial amount of execs, business leaders, young professionals, and businesspeople like golf and choose to live in or near golf communities. Some people assume that people live in places like Palencia, WGV, Ponte Vedra, or Atlantic Beach because they are racist, but the reality is that many do so for better recreational opportunities like golf or youth sports. A lot of business travelers and conference goers also like to play a round or two on their trips. It's a 20 minute ride to Timuquana and 15 minute drive to San Jose, but both are private and presumably not open to the public. For public courses,  it's 18 minutes to Hyde Park (mediocre at best) and 10 minutes to Brentwood (a mediocre 9 hole course surrounded by A Phillip Randolph Academy).  As ridiculous as the notion of building a course downtown is, it's not that crazy to suggest that it is a weakness.
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: CityLife on April 20, 2021, 01:54:48 PM
To follow up on this^. There are probably some ways to get creative and at least have SOME aspect of golf downtown.

At the Sawgrass Marriott there is a mini version of 17 from TPC in the lake next to their pool. You can pay money to get a bucket of balls to try to land it. Every time I've been there, it's crowded with people trying to do it. It would be very easy for Jax to find a way to create a true replica of 17 somewhere in the river (using environmentally safe balls). This would get tons of action and even draw a lot of people downtown just for a shot at it. Heck, you would probably have people frequently come just to watch the spectacle.

It's probably the single most iconic thing in all of the Jacksonville metro area to the world. So why not use it to your advantage downtown?
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: vicupstate on April 20, 2021, 02:14:00 PM
^^
I won't say I am totally hooked on the idea, but as much vacant land as there is in DT JAX, would a TOP GOLF location be a possibility?  They like interstate visibility, which would be easily do-able, perhaps to both interstates.  They take up about 12 acres.   
Title: Re: Editorial: Isn't it time downtown had a golf course?
Post by: CityLife on April 20, 2021, 02:56:44 PM
^^
I won't say I am totally hooked on the idea, but as much vacant land as there is in DT JAX, would a TOP GOLF location be a possibility?  They like interstate visibility, which would be easily do-able, perhaps to both interstates.  They take up about 12 acres.   

Top Golf seems like the best case scenario and they do have multiple locations in some metros (Tampa, Orlando, Atlanta, Charlotte, Miami). There is also Drive Shack who is trying to compete with Top Golf (and beat them to a WPB location). They are a bit unsightly, but I'm sure Jax could find a way to make one work in the right spot.

Even an elevated driving range hitting into the river would be an interesting idea. There are some spots in the old shipyards where people could hit into the water (inside of old piers/wharfs) and where the balls would not even go into the portion of the river where there is boat traffic. A driving range I go to occasionally is wholly aimed at a lake with floating island targets. There is also the water range that was in Something About Mary.  http://www.aquagolfrange.com/  Might be trickier to retrieve the balls in the river, but maybe something worth looking at.