The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: thelakelander on February 04, 2021, 03:48:11 PM

Title: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: thelakelander on February 04, 2021, 03:48:11 PM
Quote
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Laura-Street-Trio-February-DDRB/i-rDbSbnX/0/e6606613/L/20210211_DDRB%20AGENDA%20PACKET_Page_14-L.jpg)

A plan to restore the Laura Street Trio into a Marriott branded hotel continues to advance. Here is a look at this month's Downtown Development Review Board presentation for the project's conceptual approval.


Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/laura-street-trio-finally-headed-to-ddrb/
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: BridgeTroll on February 04, 2021, 04:44:11 PM
Looks great...  8)

Criticism in 3... 2... 1...
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: thelakelander on February 04, 2021, 05:15:49 PM
Built it already! I love how the new buildings architecturally go with the older buildings.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: jcjohnpaint on February 04, 2021, 05:17:06 PM
I love it!
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: marcuscnelson on February 04, 2021, 07:02:33 PM
From this point in time, about how long should it take to get to ribbon-cutting on this?
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: thelakelander on February 04, 2021, 07:43:08 PM
Probably a good three or four years. If I were the DIA, I'd aggressively work on filling the remaining vacant spaces and retrofitting the ground level of office buildings between the Landing site and JWJ Park. The goal would be to have a cohesive district of complementary pedestrian scale uses within 3 years. Accomplish and program that same compact area and the talk of a dead downtown will be over.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Steve on February 05, 2021, 08:37:17 AM
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BewitchedLinearIrukandjijellyfish-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Steve on February 05, 2021, 08:42:10 AM
The only nuance this creates is not with this project, but the VyStar garage:

The previous Laura St Trio plan had the motor court exiting onto Forsyth Street. That necessitated the Parking Garage to have it's entrance close to the corner of Forsyth and Main. The result of that was that while the VyStar garage is overall excellent, much of Forsyth Street is ground level parking due to the flow of the garage. Now that the Motor Court Entrance and Exit is on Adams, the placement of the Parking Garage entrance could be anywhere in the garage design. I'd love to seem the DIA/VyStar try to move the entrance closer to Laura, thereby opening up much more of the Forsyth Street frontage to retail, now or in the future.

Aside from that, we don't want to delay any further.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Steve on February 11, 2021, 08:27:49 PM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/laura-street-trio-design-granted-conceptual-approval

Granted Conceptual Approval-not surprisingly, the vote was 8-0, with Brockelman recusing himself as his company is a lobbyist for the developer.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: acme54321 on February 11, 2021, 10:42:29 PM
Quote
I wish we saw this kind of quality every single time someone submitted

No shit.  Don't we all...
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: landfall on February 12, 2021, 06:35:52 AM
Dare I say it, the Trio would be a great spot for a Starbucks.  ;D

Between the likes of this and Independent Life there's the potential for a few projects to run concurrently.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: thelakelander on February 12, 2021, 07:53:11 AM
^Quite a few! Add the adaptive reuse projects up that could be underway by summer and there's more coming now, that would have been developed at Lot J and for a fraction of the public expense. This could be a big year for the actual heart of downtown.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Papa33 on February 12, 2021, 08:39:44 AM
^Quite a few! Add the adaptive reuse projects up that could be underway by summer and there's more coming now, that would have been developed at Lot J and for a fraction of the public expense. This could be a big year for the actual heart of downtown.
Fingers crossed.  All in spite of the Mayor's of office.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: marcuscnelson on February 12, 2021, 11:13:55 AM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/KEYEpIngcmXlHetDqz/source.mov)
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Steve on March 08, 2021, 04:56:46 PM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/proposal-laura-street-trio-deal-includes-dollar24-67-million-in-forgivable-deferred-loans

A little more taxpayer incentive than I would have expected, but still worth it in my eyes for this project. At least there aren't any Breadbox loans.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: thelakelander on March 08, 2021, 05:40:23 PM
I'm not surprised. That revamp with the DT historic preservation fund was transformational for these types of adaptive reuse projects. Just hopping we can get a few of these large projects started before anything changes.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Steve on March 09, 2021, 08:55:33 AM
And in this, COJ is covered. They don't get the full amount unless:

 - The developer completes the full $66.98 million project
 - Opens hotel with at least 140 rooms.
 - 8k SqFt Retail Space
 - 21k SqFt of Restaurant Space

The big thing driving this is the $10M Code Compliance Forgivable Loan. Frankly, this is the poster child project for this type of loan - historic building that hasn't been occupied in some time where it will cost a ton to bring to code.

To me this seems like a no brainer.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: JaxAvondale on March 17, 2021, 11:04:04 PM
Update

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/dia-board-approves-dollar24-67-million-laura-street-trio-loan-package
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: FlaBoy on March 18, 2021, 01:29:45 PM
And in this, COJ is covered. They don't get the full amount unless:

 - The developer completes the full $66.98 million project
 - Opens hotel with at least 140 rooms.
 - 8k SqFt Retail Space
 - 21k SqFt of Restaurant Space

The big thing driving this is the $10M Code Compliance Forgivable Loan. Frankly, this is the poster child project for this type of loan - historic building that hasn't been occupied in some time where it will cost a ton to bring to code.

To me this seems like a no brainer.

Can you explain the $10 million Code Compliance Forgivable Loan? Is this for past citations or to bring the buildings up to compliance or a mixture?
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: fieldafm on March 18, 2021, 02:20:13 PM
The Trio's loan is a larger version of the Code Compliance Forgivable Loan program that began earlier this year

Quote
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/could-downtown-historic-preservation-be-a-game-changer/

Buildings like these were designed and constructed under a different set of Codes.  ADA compliance, fire sprinklers, elevator shafts, etc were either non-existent 50 years ago, or are drastically different than today's standards.  Retrofitting older buildings to current Code standards is expensive... and the biggest financial burden to someone looking to bring a building back to life that has been sitting empty for decades.

Additionally, preserving older architectural elements which use quite a bit of concrete and plaster, is more expensive than say gypsum products used for new construction today.

The forgivable loans to bring these buildings back up to today's standards are basically the equalizer between the cost of rehabilitation versus the cost of new construction
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: heights unknown on March 18, 2021, 04:18:46 PM
Is the coneptual or rendering in the news article is the way that it will look? Is that a new skyscraper that will be built and attached to the trio? This is the first time I've seen that scraper building; I thought a parking garage will also be added? Maybe it will be attached at the bottom of the scraper. Kind of looks like a taller version of the new JEA building now being constructed. About time though they move forward with this projects with caveats and holding them accountable...i.e., no money, no loan until the project is finished.......I love it!
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 18, 2021, 04:50:13 PM
^ Some of the renderings in this image include what looks like a future apartment complex directly adjacent to the Trio buildings themselves. But only the section next to (I think) the Bisbee Building are actually part of the hotel. I think these are sharing the Vystar garage across the street.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Ken_FSU on March 18, 2021, 07:54:10 PM
Whatever the cost.

This is the single most important project downtown, and Atkins has MORE than proven himself with the Barnett.

If the city plays nice with Atkins on the Trio, plays nice with VyStar on their expansion, and knocks the Landing out of the park, it will be more transformational for downtown than anything in the sports district or Shipyards.

We can't mess this one up.

Just need to write the check, remove any unnecessary red tape, and get out of the way of Atkins and Danis.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: thelakelander on March 18, 2021, 08:12:31 PM
Pretty much! Write the check and move out the way. If there's a desire to do more, work with the owners of BOA, Wells Fargo Center and Omni/Enterprise Center to do something productive at street level.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Ken_FSU on March 18, 2021, 09:56:35 PM
Pretty much! Write the check and move out the way. If there's a desire to do more, work with the owners of BOA, Wells Fargo Center and Omni/Enterprise Center to do something productive at street level.

Open the main library's two retail spots to the street, toss some of those historic preservation fund bones to Ron to finish his project, and heavily incentive the repurposing of Snyder Memorial, and you've got yourself a pretty badass stretch from Hemming to the river to build off of.

On a similar note, I'd love to see the Main Library and Hemming Park become better partners.

Just makes so much sense for the library to take a more active role in programming the park.

Bryant Park and the New York Public library partner on an outdoor "reading room" concept that would work really well in our climate. Basically just involves the library setting up an outdoor area in the park with newspapers, magazines, and popular books each day. No library card required, just the honor system with a librarian or park staff keeping everyone honest. At lunch time and on weekends, they have book and poetry readings in the park, and they partner with Bryant on movies nights as well. They also do coffee and snack carts, popcorn, etc.

https://bryantpark.org/amenities/reading-room
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 18, 2021, 11:51:16 PM
It's truly mind-boggling how much potential this city leaves on the table on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Zac T on May 30, 2021, 11:47:22 AM
Laura Street Trio clears another hurdle

Quote
SouthEast Group’s application for a Historic Preservation Certificate for the Laura Street Trio buildings has been approved by the National Park Service, setting the stage for the $70 million redevelopment of the properties to move ahead.

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2021/05/28/laura-st-trio-nps-2.html
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: thelakelander on May 30, 2021, 11:54:45 AM
Great news! I was prepared that it might take longer to clear that hurdle!

Quote
SouthEast Group’s application for a Historic Preservation Certificate for the Laura Street Trio buildings has been approved by the National Park Service, setting the stage for the $70 million redevelopment of the properties to move ahead.

The final hurdle before work can begin is having the City Council sign off on a development agreement as part of the $24.67 million in city funding that the Downtown Investment Authority agreed to provide earlier this year.

That agreement is still being worked on by the city’s lawyers, SouthEast Managing Director Steve Atkins told the Business Journal on Friday. Once it is finalized and approved by council, work can begin.

When it does, it should go quickly.

“I want to be in the ground by the end of summer,” Atkins said. “When I say I’m ready to go, I’m ready to go.”
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: marcuscnelson on May 30, 2021, 01:07:54 PM
Excellent that the NPS is catching up on the backlog of applications! Hopefully this sails through Council so they can hop to it.

I imagine it could be a real morale booster for downtown to see the Trio under construction. Something that really lives up to the idea that we’re not only coming back from the pandemic, but even on the rise again. Not to mention the sheer value of having the heart of the northbank reactivated.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Zac T on May 30, 2021, 01:43:10 PM
When is VyStar supposed to start construction on the parking garage? I feel like I've been hearing 6 weeks for a few months now. These two projects are going to completely transform the feel of that entire corridor and I'm really looking forward to seeing them move forward especially as Bread and Board Provisions comes online
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: jcjohnpaint on May 30, 2021, 06:58:31 PM
Was going to ask about the garage too. What are they waiting on at this point.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: thelakelander on May 30, 2021, 07:16:30 PM
This March article said the garage construction should start in 6 to 12 weeks:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/vystar-continued-to-grow-during-pandemic-looking-at-downtown-expansion

This week is the 12th week. The article also said the breezeway would be open by mid April and Estrella Cocina by May 1st. Both Estrella Cocina and the breezeway just opened last week. Bread & Board Provisions is also a few weeks off for the March projection of it being open by June 1. So it seems they are running a few weeks behind. Hopefully, the garage will be under way within the next month or so.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: jcjohnpaint on May 30, 2021, 10:21:19 PM
Thank You
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: heights unknown on May 31, 2021, 11:02:12 PM
Went snooping through downtown today "Angela Lansbury Style" (murder she wrote with the flashlight), and walla, I see a sign around the fence at Laura Street Trio about "COMING SOON, LAURA STREET TRIO," made me feel a lot better about where Jax is going; things are picking up and beginning to rise. Didn't see the cranes around Riverside Avenue over the new high rise there until day before yesterday; that area (Brooklyn) is taking on the look of its own signature downtown or urban core (LOL). So is the Southbank. I hope they keep the momentum going and keep getting those critical first downs (projects/development starts) and on to much needed touchdowns (completion of those projects/development). Western downtown on the Northbank really needs a fusion bad; looks like it was bombed out. I hope they don't neglect that eastern end of LaVilla, which is the western end of the Northbank of downtown. Read somewhere that new projects are proposed for LaVilla.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Ken_FSU on June 17, 2021, 01:39:16 PM
New fencing up around the Trio site.

Hopefully this flies through City Council in the coming weeks so work can get started soon.

(https://i.postimg.cc/RZmS4M4S/IMG-0740.jpg)
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: landfall on June 17, 2021, 02:03:04 PM
New fencing up around the Trio site.

Hopefully this flies through City Council in the coming weeks so work can get started soon.

(https://i.postimg.cc/RZmS4M4S/IMG-0740.jpg)
Positive sign, literally. Any visible movement across the street at the Vystar site?
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: thelakelander on June 17, 2021, 02:31:08 PM
^Nope! JEA's garage is well underway though.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Ken_FSU on June 17, 2021, 03:05:19 PM
Positive sign, literally. Any visible movement across the street at the Vystar site?

HQ or the parking garage?

Lots of movement in the last few months on their new headquarters. The Bread & Burger has opened in the alley, as has Estrella Cocina on the rooftop.

Last time I walked by Bread & Board provisions, it looked like they were getting close to opening.

Still no action with the parking garage.

The revised garage plans necessitate VyStar purchasing a portion of property from Regions Bank. The two parties have been under contract forever, but the sale hasn't closed yet. With City Council passing an incentives package this week for Regions renovations contingent on that sale going through to VyStar, VyStar's employees heading back imminently, the Trio heading before City Council, etc. I think/hope we're going to see movement on the garage ramp up pretty quickly in the next month or two.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Steve on June 17, 2021, 04:13:30 PM
Regarding the parking garage, I read something in the JDR that implied that VyStar hadn't closed on the Regions parking lot yet. That seems to be the indirect holdup.

Now what's the holdup with the closing on that parking lot?........unsure.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Ken_FSU on June 17, 2021, 04:54:06 PM
Regarding the parking garage, I read something in the JDR that implied that VyStar hadn't closed on the Regions parking lot yet. That seems to be the indirect holdup.

Now what's the holdup with the closing on that parking lot?........unsure.

I was under the impression that Regions wanted to secure the incentives package from the City before finalizing the sale.

Wouldn't be surprised to see them close by end of month.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: landfall on June 17, 2021, 04:59:04 PM
Positive sign, literally. Any visible movement across the street at the Vystar site?

HQ or the parking garage?

Lots of movement in the last few months on their new headquarters. The Bread & Burger has opened in the alley, as has Estrella Cocina on the rooftop.

Last time I walked by Bread & Board provisions, it looked like they were getting close to opening.

Still no action with the parking garage.

The revised garage plans necessitate VyStar purchasing a portion of property from Regions Bank. The two parties have been under contract forever, but the sale hasn't closed yet. With City Council passing an incentives package this week for Regions renovations contingent on that sale going through to VyStar, VyStar's employees heading back imminently, the Trio heading before City Council, etc. I think/hope we're going to see movement on the garage ramp up pretty quickly in the next month or two.
Sorry yeah, meant the parking garage. The other stuff looks like its churning along.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: jcjohnpaint on June 17, 2021, 06:14:56 PM
Glad to see that fence up.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: fieldafm on June 17, 2021, 07:08:40 PM
Regarding the parking garage, I read something in the JDR that implied that VyStar hadn't closed on the Regions parking lot yet. That seems to be the indirect holdup.

Now what's the holdup with the closing on that parking lot?........unsure.

I was under the impression that Regions wanted to secure the incentives package from the City before finalizing the sale.

Wouldn't be surprised to see them close by end of month.

Ken is correct.  Regions, wisely, has been holding out on actually selling the property to Vystar while COJ a) approved Region's fairly large signage exception b) signed off on giving Regions money to pay for parking spots in off-site parking garages and c) signed off on a historic preservation façade grant (which exceeds the limits of the incentive program). 

Frankly, it was a nice little carrot to wag on Region's part.

Unless there is a severe recession, Vystar has even more plans for Downtown once the parking garage is built.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Steve on July 13, 2021, 10:27:56 AM
Trio Funding approved by MBRC, on to Council:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/dollar24-67-million-laura-street-trio-incentives-deal-advances-to-council
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: heights unknown on July 13, 2021, 12:30:06 PM
Regarding the parking garage, I read something in the JDR that implied that VyStar hadn't closed on the Regions parking lot yet. That seems to be the indirect holdup.

Now what's the holdup with the closing on that parking lot?........unsure.

I was under the impression that Regions wanted to secure the incentives package from the City before finalizing the sale.

Wouldn't be surprised to see them close by end of month.

Ken is correct.  Regions, wisely, has been holding out on actually selling the property to Vystar while COJ a) approved Region's fairly large signage exception b) signed off on giving Regions money to pay for parking spots in off-site parking garages and c) signed off on a historic preservation façade grant (which exceeds the limits of the incentive program). 

Frankly, it was a nice little carrot to wag on Region's part.

Unless there is a severe recession, Vystar has even more plans for Downtown once the parking garage is built.
What plans? Or...are you not obliged to let the cat out of the bag? LOL
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Ken_FSU on July 29, 2021, 03:18:40 PM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/bill-introduced-for-dollar24-67-million-in-incentives-for-downtown-trio-renovation

Let's go!

Drink every time a City Council member who voted for a $250 million Lot J subsidy in the sports complex parking lot grumbles about spending $25 million for a catalytic project in the heart of the CBD.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: marcuscnelson on July 29, 2021, 03:22:29 PM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/bill-introduced-for-dollar24-67-million-in-incentives-for-downtown-trio-renovation

Let's go!

Drink every time a City Council member who voted for a $250 million Lot J subsidy in the sports complex parking lot grumbles about spending $25 million for a catalytic project in the heart of the CBD.

No, because 1) that's still illegal for me and 2) I don't want alcohol poisoning.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: heights unknown on July 29, 2021, 08:06:21 PM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/bill-introduced-for-dollar24-67-million-in-incentives-for-downtown-trio-renovation

Let's go!

Drink every time a City Council member who voted for a $250 million Lot J subsidy in the sports complex parking lot grumbles about spending $25 million for a catalytic project in the heart of the CBD.
I'm happy that this project seems to be on the road and on the way; but September? They are so damn slow in Jax. Well, patience is virtue so they say, and, when this project gets underway and then finished, we all will be happy in love!
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: jcjohnpaint on July 29, 2021, 08:44:06 PM
I don’t know if patients is good in this town. All honesty, I would jut love to see this project start.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: heights unknown on July 29, 2021, 09:27:28 PM
I don’t know if patients is good in this town. All honesty, I would jut love to see this project start.
In Miami, Tampa, Orlando, St. Pete, (and there are other smaller cities), when they announce a project, they start shoveling dirt and moving cranes in yesterday. In Jax it takes 2 years or more, or even never, for a project or development that's been announced and/or approved to get underway.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: WAJAS on July 29, 2021, 10:22:56 PM
I don’t know if patients is good in this town. All honesty, I would jut love to see this project start.
In Miami, Tampa, Orlando, St. Pete, (and there are other smaller cities), when they announce a project, they start shoveling dirt and moving cranes in yesterday. In Jax it takes 2 years or more, or even never, for a project or development that's been announced and/or approved to get underway.

At least in regards to Orlando, this is not true. The Sports & Entertainment District has been announced since 2017. All they have done is demo a perfectly good garage with ground-floor retail and the police HQ. Society has gone through 3+ names in as many years. I can go on, but I think Jax is unique in that many of the projects are viewed as "downtown saving" with high publicity. Not to mention many of them are megaprojects that never happen, like the Shipyards (v1,2,3...), Lot J, The District, etc. Granted it seems The District is finally starting.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: landfall on July 30, 2021, 07:35:34 AM
The pace of this project is why I have increasing doubts about the viability of the Riverfront Jax plan.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Zac T on July 30, 2021, 09:40:37 AM
I don’t know if patients is good in this town. All honesty, I would jut love to see this project start.
In Miami, Tampa, Orlando, St. Pete, (and there are other smaller cities), when they announce a project, they start shoveling dirt and moving cranes in yesterday. In Jax it takes 2 years or more, or even never, for a project or development that's been announced and/or approved to get underway.

At least in regards to Orlando, this is not true. The Sports & Entertainment District has been announced since 2017. All they have done is demo a perfectly good garage with ground-floor retail and the police HQ. Society has gone through 3+ names in as many years. I can go on, but I think Jax is unique in that many of the projects are viewed as "downtown saving" with high publicity. Not to mention many of them are megaprojects that never happen, like the Shipyards (v1,2,3...), Lot J, The District, etc. Granted it seems The District is finally starting.

It's slow in Tampa as well. The riverfront property that Trump was supposed to build a tower on back in the 2000's has had 3-4 different owners and multiple proposals since then, including the tallest building in Florida outside Miami, and it's still sitting there. Now they have a new proposal for a 37-story tower but we'll see how it goes. Water Street Tampa is moving but Ybor seems to get its fair share of proposals with pretty renderings that never actually happen.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Ken_FSU on July 30, 2021, 10:58:27 AM
I'm happy that this project seems to be on the road and on the way; but September? They are so damn slow in Jax. Well, patience is virtue so they say, and, when this project gets underway and then finished, we all will be happy in love!

Totally agree on many projects in Jacksonville, just not on this one.

I really admire Steve Atkins, and though the Trio has been slow to progress, you can't fault the guy's passion and perseverance.

He absolutely crushed it with the Barnett (full occupancy with 40 people on the wait list), and he learned a lot of lessons from the project (and its cost overruns) that can be applied to the Trio.

Many of the delays on the Trio post-Barnett were out of Southeast's control. Lots of red tape to get through when you're talking about three historical structures. Lots of red tape to get through when the city amends its historical preservation fund. And lots of red tape to get through when you need to go through two DIA reviews and City Council for the new incentives deal.

Would like to see it advance more quickly than September, but when you're talking about nearly $30 million in public contribution, I'm all for giving it the necessary time.

Atkins has a great plan for this project and the Marriott is going to be a massive addition to the CBD.

I think the project will be off to the races this fall, will be worth the wait, and is no way indicative of how fast or slow any new construction he leads along the riverfront might be.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: jcjohnpaint on July 30, 2021, 01:11:00 PM
I've been excited about this project since I moved here 11 years ago. Never seen it this far along. I think it will really add to the connectivity in Laura Street, creating the vibrancy needed. To be honest, I feel the Barnett looks more beautiful than I'd ever imagined.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: jaxoNOLE on September 14, 2021, 08:06:04 PM
Tonight, Council debated the additional $2M request from the developer to release an outstanding lien on the Trio leftover from the Barnett project, which release will permit closing on the financing.

CM Cumber had the audacity to raise parallels to Lot J and complain that this $2M has not been through the DIA process, and she therefore will not support the $2M addition. Key context:
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Steve on September 14, 2021, 08:15:46 PM
Tonight, Council debated the additional $2M request from the developer to release an outstanding lien on the Trio leftover from the Barnett project, which release will permit closing on the financing.

CM Cumber had the audacity to raise parallels to Lot J and complain that this $2M has not been through the DIA process, and she therefore will not support the $2M addition. Key context:
  • CM Cumber voted yes on Lot J.
  • She is "philosophically opposed" to historic preservation if the economics don't stand on their own. If the economics don't work, she'd rather "tear the buildings down and allow something that makes sense" to be built there instead. Presumably this makes sense because Lot J was economically feasible on it's own, and the economics on all our tear-downs have worked out great for the City.  /s
  • She was, thankfully, the only "no" vote on the legislation.

Stop it. She represents San Marco.

I’m going to have to pull the tape of this council meeting.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: jaxoNOLE on September 14, 2021, 08:23:32 PM
I don't think she meant to imply that the Trio should be torn down, but she definitely implied a general hostility to incentives focused on historic adaptive reuse.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: vicupstate on September 14, 2021, 09:11:28 PM
I don't think she meant to imply that the Trio should be torn down, but she definitely implied a general hostility to incentives focused on historic adaptive reuse.

But massive subsidies for projects on vacant land like Lot J is okay??
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: jaxoNOLE on September 14, 2021, 09:24:29 PM
Apparently
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: thelakelander on September 14, 2021, 11:14:22 PM
Quote
Council approves Laura Street Trio redevelopment plan

(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Laura-Street-Trio-February-DDRB/i-sVdNtjM/0/94ac3344/L/20210211_DDRB%20AGENDA%20PACKET_Page_35-L.jpg)

The long proposed Laura Street Trio redevelopment project has received City Council approval for $24.67 million financing package.


Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/council-approves-laura-street-trio-redevelopment-plan/
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: thelakelander on September 15, 2021, 07:18:47 AM
I don't think she meant to imply that the Trio should be torn down, but she definitely implied a general hostility to incentives focused on historic adaptive reuse.

But massive subsidies for projects on vacant land like Lot J is okay??

She's not a fan of putting money into historic properties. From the article:

Quote
“Now that we just gave them an extra $2 million, there’s essentially no cash that they’re putting into this,” she said.

“Now, I have ... philosophical reasons on why we shouldn’t be giving money for historic properties. I think that if the private sector doesn’t see that it’s something we should be doing and it’s not going to make money, then I would just rather, for the most part, tear them (the Trio) down and build something else that does make money.”
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: jcjohnpaint on September 15, 2021, 08:30:22 AM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: vicupstate on September 15, 2021, 08:59:04 AM
I don't think she meant to imply that the Trio should be torn down, but she definitely implied a general hostility to incentives focused on historic adaptive reuse.

If

But massive subsidies for projects on vacant land like Lot J is okay??

She's not a fan of putting money into historic properties. From the article:

Quote
“Now that we just gave them an extra $2 million, there’s essentially no cash that they’re putting into this,” she said.

“Now, I have ... philosophical reasons on why we shouldn’t be giving money for historic properties. I think that if the private sector doesn’t see that it’s something we should be doing and it’s not going to make money, then I would just rather, for the most part, tear them (the Trio) down and build something else that does make money.”

Maybe someone should show her the rent per SF in historic downtowns, versus the rent per SF in DT Jacksonville. 
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Captain Zissou on September 15, 2021, 09:26:15 AM
Maybe someone should show her the rent per SF in historic downtowns, versus the rent per SF in DT Jacksonville. 

Her husband owns or owned a number of properties in San Marco, she used to be the president of the San Marco Preservation Society, and she lives in a home on River Road built in 1935.  She should know better than anyone the value of historic buildings.  I'm not at all surprised that she believes this, but I'm quite surprised she actually said it on the record.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: thelakelander on September 15, 2021, 09:34:17 AM
I don't think she meant to imply that the Trio should be torn down, but she definitely implied a general hostility to incentives focused on historic adaptive reuse.

If

But massive subsidies for projects on vacant land like Lot J is okay??

She's not a fan of putting money into historic properties. From the article:

Quote
“Now that we just gave them an extra $2 million, there’s essentially no cash that they’re putting into this,” she said.

“Now, I have ... philosophical reasons on why we shouldn’t be giving money for historic properties. I think that if the private sector doesn’t see that it’s something we should be doing and it’s not going to make money, then I would just rather, for the most part, tear them (the Trio) down and build something else that does make money.”

Maybe someone should show her the rent per SF in historic downtowns, versus the rent per SF in DT Jacksonville. 

The biggest problem with her quote is that she ended up voting for Lot J. That was new and wasn't worth it to the developer without $250 million in public incentives and up front cash. Jax could have incentivized 10 Laura Street Trio type deals with the money we were about to flush down the toilet on Lot J.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: fsu813 on September 15, 2021, 09:39:59 AM
Maybe someone should show her the rent per SF in historic downtowns, versus the rent per SF in DT Jacksonville. 

Her husband owns or owned a number of properties in San Marco, she used to be the president of the San Marco Preservation Society, and she lives in a home on River Road built in 1935.  She should know better than anyone the value of historic buildings.  I'm not at all surprised that she believes this, but I'm quite surprised she actually said it on the record.

It's not a coincidence that San Marco has declined pursuing local Historic District designation multiple times. Her mentality is not uncommon.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: vicupstate on September 15, 2021, 10:10:58 AM
Maybe someone should show her the rent per SF in historic downtowns, versus the rent per SF in DT Jacksonville. 

Her husband owns or owned a number of properties in San Marco, she used to be the president of the San Marco Preservation Society, and she lives in a home on River Road built in 1935.  She should know better than anyone the value of historic buildings.  I'm not at all surprised that she believes this, but I'm quite surprised she actually said it on the record.

It's not a coincidence that San Marco has declined pursuing local Historic District designation multiple times. Her mentality is not uncommon.

A lot of people don't understand or just don't want to deal with the restrictions, etc that come with historic designations. That isn't the same as not understanding or appreciating the intrinsic value of historic properties. 
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Tacachale on September 15, 2021, 11:40:03 AM
I don't think she meant to imply that the Trio should be torn down, but she definitely implied a general hostility to incentives focused on historic adaptive reuse.

But massive subsidies for projects on vacant land like Lot J is okay??

She's not a fan of putting money into historic properties. From the article:

Quote
“Now that we just gave them an extra $2 million, there’s essentially no cash that they’re putting into this,” she said.

“Now, I have ... philosophical reasons on why we shouldn’t be giving money for historic properties. I think that if the private sector doesn’t see that it’s something we should be doing and it’s not going to make money, then I would just rather, for the most part, tear them (the Trio) down and build something else that does make money.”

The Braindead Coalition strikes again.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: thelakelander on September 15, 2021, 11:53:37 AM
Maybe someone should show her the rent per SF in historic downtowns, versus the rent per SF in DT Jacksonville. 

Her husband owns or owned a number of properties in San Marco, she used to be the president of the San Marco Preservation Society, and she lives in a home on River Road built in 1935.  She should know better than anyone the value of historic buildings.  I'm not at all surprised that she believes this, but I'm quite surprised she actually said it on the record.

It's not a coincidence that San Marco has declined pursuing local Historic District designation multiple times. Her mentality is not uncommon.

A lot of people don't understand or just don't want to deal with the restrictions, etc that come with historic designations. That isn't the same as not understanding or appreciating the intrinsic value of historic properties. 

The requirements behind local historic districts can be pretty difficult on the property owner. Since affordable housing is a major concern with the Eastside, we're pursuing a national register designation for that neighborhood as opposed to a local designation, which would only help gentrify it. National is more honorary and places no restrictions on the property owner, unless the property owner decides to take advantage of tax credit, incentive and/or grant programs associated with it. Overall, combined with some slight zoning changes to provide additional market rate protection to the existing building stock, historic integrity and sense of place of the neighborhood, its a more equitable and inclusive way of dealing with preservation in historically excluded communities using policies and processes already on the books.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Captain Zissou on September 15, 2021, 12:01:30 PM
Carlucci dropped some knowledge on Cumber in his comments last night.  If you watch the meeting online she starts around 3:05 and he comes roaring in at 3:11 on the broadcast. 
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: landfall on September 15, 2021, 03:31:14 PM
So is there anything left now before work begins?
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: heights unknown on September 15, 2021, 08:19:28 PM
Tonight, Council debated the additional $2M request from the developer to release an outstanding lien on the Trio leftover from the Barnett project, which release will permit closing on the financing.

CM Cumber had the audacity to raise parallels to Lot J and complain that this $2M has not been through the DIA process, and she therefore will not support the $2M addition. Key context:
  • CM Cumber voted yes on Lot J.
  • She is "philosophically opposed" to historic preservation if the economics don't stand on their own. If the economics don't work, she'd rather "tear the buildings down and allow something that makes sense" to be built there instead. Presumably this makes sense because Lot J was economically feasible on it's own, and the economics on all our tear-downs have worked out great for the City.  /s
  • She was, thankfully, the only "no" vote on the legislation.
I guess "SHE" thinks, or, to HER a PARKING LOT would MAKE SENSE. I'd like to know what did she have in mind that made sense. I'll bet she doesn't have a clue; and in the meantime, if they tore those buildings down, a parking lot would go there indefinitely...oh, wait, or how about a plush lawn right smack in the middle of the downtown/urban core. That's the way Jacksonville rolls.......isn't it?
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: heights unknown on September 15, 2021, 08:27:12 PM
Quote
Council approves Laura Street Trio redevelopment plan

(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Laura-Street-Trio-February-DDRB/i-sVdNtjM/0/94ac3344/L/20210211_DDRB%20AGENDA%20PACKET_Page_35-L.jpg)

The long proposed Laura Street Trio redevelopment project has received City Council approval for $24.67 million financing package.


Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/council-approves-laura-street-trio-redevelopment-plan/
THANK GOD!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Ken_FSU on September 17, 2021, 10:54:18 AM
Busy month, looks like everyone already covered it well, but just dropping by to quickly appreciate LeAnna Cumber and Rory Diamond abstaining/opposing $27 million in incentives to turn three of our most blighted, historically significant buildings in the most strategically important corridor in Downtown Jacksonville into a 145-room Marriott, restaurant, rooftop bar, and bodega while just months ago cheerleading a $300 million debt-financed handout to the Jags for a 120-room hotel, restaurants, Daily's bodega, and event space.   

Good job, guys!

Horrifying quote about historic preservation from Cumber, btw.

Spoken like somebody who has never stepped foot outside of Jacksonville and experienced the character of other urban areas in her life.

Excited to see the garage already underway next-door, and really excited to see this one finally come to life.

Interesting that Atkins has this project scoped at $70 million while the Barnett alone ended up at nearly $60 million.

Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: acme54321 on September 17, 2021, 01:13:14 PM
Interesting that Atkins has this project scoped at $70 million while the Barnett alone ended up at nearly $60 million.

Barnett is a much larger structure, according to the property appraiser it's 216k sq ft vs 93k for all three Trio buildings combined.  On top of that there are a lot less unknowns about the new construction portion of the Trio project so you can getter better cost estimates on that piece.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: jaxjags on September 17, 2021, 02:36:54 PM
Given the cost over runs at the Barnett,  they probably have a  large contingency fund to cover unexpected costs.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Ken_FSU on September 17, 2021, 03:23:15 PM
Interesting that Atkins has this project scoped at $70 million while the Barnett alone ended up at nearly $60 million.

Barnett is a much larger structure, according to the property appraiser it's 216k sq ft vs 93k for all three Trio buildings combined.  On top of that there are a lot less unknowns about the new construction portion of the Trio project so you can getter better cost estimates on that piece.

Good info! Thanks acme!
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: thelakelander on September 27, 2021, 09:43:00 AM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/laura-street-trio-developer-wants-to-add-multifamily-phase-by-mid-2022
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 27, 2021, 12:22:41 PM
^ I am thinking with a housing shortage and the increased housing Downtown we should be at, or close, to the point where the City no longer incentivizes such projects unless they are restoring a historic building.  Only others are projects that bring jobs, maybe.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Captain Zissou on September 27, 2021, 12:49:07 PM
^ I am thinking with a housing shortage and the increased housing Downtown we should be at, or close, to the point where the City no longer incentivizes such projects unless they are restoring a historic building.  Only others are projects that bring jobs, maybe.

The rents that the city can command and the impact of increasing construction costs still make margins very slim or non-existent for developers downtown.  $2.50-$3.0 per square foot is the very upper end of what you can charge locally.  That doesn't cover the added expenses caused by material and labor shortages/delays.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 27, 2021, 01:31:16 PM
^ I am thinking with a housing shortage and the increased housing Downtown we should be at, or close, to the point where the City no longer incentivizes such projects unless they are restoring a historic building.  Only others are projects that bring jobs, maybe.

The rents that the city can command and the impact of increasing construction costs still make margins very slim or non-existent for developers downtown.  $2.50-$3.0 per square foot is the very upper end of what you can charge locally.  That doesn't cover the added expenses caused by material and labor shortages/delays.

Suburban apartment developers have the same construction costs and labor issues but it's not slowing them down.  Some of the complexes appear to be selling at upwards of $250 to $300K a unit.  Rents in the area are rising at double digit rates.  Urban living seems finally to be coming in style here.  Investors also seem to be accepting of relatively low cap rates putting a premium on these developments allowing developers to cash out handsomely. I am not convinced we are not approaching a point where it can make sense to build Downtown without incentives.

What is really missing Downtown is more retail and better urban-centered public transit so living without use of a car is much easier.  The savings of not having to have to operate a full time vehicle helps support premium rents too.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: jaxjaguar on September 27, 2021, 01:45:49 PM
Without incentives the developers build more suburban style stick framed low rise apartments on the outermost limits of downtown to maximize profit because land is cheap... Rather than fill in the empty lots near the SkyWay stations / Hogan St, Water St etc where density is needed. Jacksonville is permanently stuck in a "fill outward in" mentality rather than "fill inward  out". This is what causes people to move to the suburbs and businesses that should be in the CBD to move into office parks away from downtown.

I remember when I was working for one of the largest companies in Jacksonville and they were desperate for new office space. Plenty was available downtown, but ultimately they settled on offices in South Point and moving some jobs to another state because so many people complained about not wanting to work downtown. It wasn't that the employees were scared or concerned about things to do after work. The 3 biggest complaints were 1. traffic 2. Lack of parking 3. 90%+ of our employees lived in St Johns County, Mandarin and Orange Park so South Point was "the central location".

I predict Nocatee and St Johns building out more office parks and further exacerbating the problem, because land is cheap and people don't want to spend 2 hours going to and from work each way every day.
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: Captain Zissou on September 27, 2021, 02:58:19 PM
Suburban apartment developers have the same construction costs and labor issues but it's not slowing them down. 

4 story stick built with surface parking is not at all "the same construction costs".
Title: Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
Post by: heights unknown on September 27, 2021, 06:24:04 PM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/laura-street-trio-developer-wants-to-add-multifamily-phase-by-mid-2022
Carry on.