The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: thelakelander on January 07, 2021, 05:37:33 PM

Title: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 07, 2021, 05:37:33 PM
Quote
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/River-City-Brewing-Related-Group/i-t3sBHDv/0/5b5158c1/L/20210114_DDRB-AGENDA-PACKET_Page_30-L.jpg)

Miami-based Related Group will seek conceptual approval from the Downtown Development Review Board (DDRB) for an eight-story, 333-unit apartment building on January 14th. The project would include a 535-space parking garage and be built on the site of River City Brewing Company. The project includes a restaurant overlooking Friendship Fountain that will require separate DDRB design approval. Here is the presentation illustrating the project's proposed conceptual design. Let us know what you think about the conceptual design.

Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/rd-river-city-brewing-apartment-renderings/
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: jaxlongtimer on January 07, 2021, 06:12:46 PM
My previously stated concern about the disproportionate impact on the perimeter of the river's aesthetics is magnified by these renderings.  Its scale is inappropriate for the size of the site and proximity to the river.

The whole project comes across as an effort to develop every last square foot, effectively shoe-horning the site.

Add, the architecture looks like a mass produced Orlando time share development.

Not impressed.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: vicupstate on January 07, 2021, 06:35:16 PM
Architecture is about as beachy-cookie-cutter as it gets. This is a very high visibility site as well. This is a hard and loud 'NO'.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: acme54321 on January 07, 2021, 06:49:26 PM
I like that it's something other than the River House/SoBa/Brooklyn/220/etc vibe but that has the beach all over it.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: CityLife on January 07, 2021, 06:58:27 PM
The east and west elevations are appalling (particularly the east) and need to be broken up. The north (river facing) elevation is ok architecturally, but looks like it's inspired by Rosemary Beach. This isn't compatible with existing or desired architecture in Downtown. If it doesn't get eaten alive by the DDRB, just shut the board down.

Rosemary Beach
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/realjoy/img/r/6110bd27-9ed3-4b3f-821f-5f3d68637d44.png)
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: jaxlongtimer on January 07, 2021, 07:17:26 PM
The east and west elevations are appalling (particularly the east)...

All sides are not good but I think the west side is the worst if we are taking a poll on ugliness  :-X:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/River-City-Brewing-Related-Group/i-cvcmrV2/0/e166c264/L/20210114_DDRB-AGENDA-PACKET_Page_33-L.jpg)
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: CityLife on January 07, 2021, 07:19:51 PM
Skimmed the DIA report and it's not very critical other than this section.

Façade Differentiation
"The current design is reminiscent of resort style architecture which is seen in Key West FL, Seaside FL, St. Augustine, FL and other resort destinations. Staff is unsure how this fits contextually along the St. John’s River in Jacksonville. The design should present a perceptible unity within the area. Surrounding buildings and developments present a contemporary, modern style as shown below. Staff would like to see the proposed architecture have some unity with the surrounding area."

There is no mention of issues with the Soviet Bloc apartment style massing and the DIA is recommending approval with a very loose condition to "elevate the architectural design".

Based on the foregoing, the Downtown Development Review Board Staff supports CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL of DDRB Application 2020-023 with the following recommendations:

(A) Prior to submittal for final review, the developer shall meet with staff to:
i) identify any deviations sought;
(B) Elevate the Architectural Design;
(C) Enhance the Parking Deck with additional screening and provide additional features to meet the fifth elevation requirement for the parking deck roof;
(D) At final review, the developer shall provide enough detail so as to illustrate that the “Pedestrian Zone” meets the definition of such in the Ordinance Code, and meets the various requirements and design / amenity features for the “Pedestrian Zone;”
(E) Streetlights, benches and street furnishings shall be placed in the Amenity Area. Street furnishings (e.g. benches, trash receptacles) shall be in accordance with the Downtown Streetscape Design Guidelines;
(F) Riverwalk design shall follow the Riverwalk Design Guidelines including landscape material proposed.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: CityLife on January 07, 2021, 07:29:55 PM
The east and west elevations are appalling (particularly the east)...

All sides are not good but I think the west side is the worst if we are taking a poll on ugliness  :-X:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/River-City-Brewing-Related-Group/i-cvcmrV2/0/e166c264/L/20210114_DDRB-AGENDA-PACKET_Page_33-L.jpg)
The west is ugliest in a flat 2d elevation that does not show how the building is broken up and because of the parking garage, but in 3d and real life the east elevation will probably look the worst, imo. It's a several hundred foot long mass that is not broken up at all and has little architectural detailing. That said, the west elevation is possibly more prominent and I presume visible from the river, Acosta, and nearby buildings. That garage needs some work...
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: jaxlongtimer on January 07, 2021, 07:58:19 PM
If we want the urban core to shine, the DIA should require, in my humble opinion, architecture to be at a level that is unique, innovative, contextual, approachable, create interest, be aesthetically pleasing, lacks a sense of mass, constructed of higher grade and diverse materials and with sufficient greenery and setbacks to have some connection to the land and/or to provide some level of outdoor use.

When is the last time a local urban core building won a regional or national architecture award? 

Much of the urban core is taking on the look of indistinct suburban developments.  A Downtown should be the architectural jewel of a city, its show place.  Architecture can be an economic development asset when properly deployed.  People are attracted to unique and special landmarks.  If we want Downtown to be special, so should its architecture.

Once again, Jacksonville seems to take on projects for the sake of doing them, not for incorporating them into a long term vision that is sustainable and has standards.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: itsfantastic1 on January 07, 2021, 09:38:45 PM
It also looks the tiered height restrictions from the river are undergoing the average total height calc that the San Marco Presbyterian project is doing to surpass the maximum restrictions.

...However this appears to result in a huge wall facing the river by allowing an exceedence of the max by 40'. The San Marco project only added a few feet if I'm remember correctly. Visually very claustrophobic and intimidating.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 07, 2021, 11:22:58 PM
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/River-City-Brewing-Related-Group/i-cF84K5D/0/e09c991d/L/20210114_DDRB-AGENDA-PACKET_Page_41-L.jpg)

This building is two blocks long. Other than the Duval County Courthouse, you'll be hard pressed to find something taking up that much linear footprint in downtown. It needs to be broken up. It's already 8 floors. Some consideration should be given to chopping the footprint in have and making it a 16 story structure that only wraps the garage. Make an impact on a stagnant skyline and create more riverfront green space at the same time by removing the footprint out of Zones A, B and C.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: jaxjaguar on January 08, 2021, 12:08:38 AM
This would be a great location for something similar to Orlando's 'The Plaza'. It's about the same square footage as this project, but uses 3 connected buildings of varying heights to make the most impact on the skyline. It has a movie theater, several restaurants, luxury apartments, office space and integrated parking in a 1 block footprint.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: Adam White on January 08, 2021, 02:47:55 AM
Architecture is about as beachy-cookie-cutter as it gets. This is a very high visibility site as well. This is a hard and loud 'NO'.

+1
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: Des on January 08, 2021, 08:46:35 AM
Does anyone know what the proposed cost is?
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: Captain Zissou on January 08, 2021, 08:58:18 AM
I'm in agreement with what has been said here, but I was immediately struck by how out of context this would look.  To me this looks like one of those disney hotels surrounded by 10 acres of parking or the new Marriot going in at San Pablo and JTB.  Even the Margaritaville hotel at the beach would look better than this at that site.  This is shoddy work and should be struck down by the DDRB. 

From a practical standpoint, it looks like some of the units on the river (likely the most expensive) will have about 100+ yards to walk from their parking space to their door.  Not an easy task with arms full of groceries.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 08, 2021, 09:11:22 AM
I'm in agreement with what has been said here, but I was immediately struck by how out of context this would look.  To me this looks like one of those disney hotels surrounded by 10 acres of parking or the new Marriot going in at San Pablo and JTB. 

Lol I immediately thought a poor man's version of Disney's Polynesian Village Resort.

Does anyone know what the proposed cost is?

$92.34 million
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: WarDamJagFan on January 08, 2021, 09:22:46 AM
This is an absolute horror show of a project. WHAT GOOD IS HAVING A RIVERFRONT DOWNTOWN IF ONE CAN'T EVEN USE IT. As I said previously, we had more waterfront dining options in 1995 than we do today - and this God Awful concept would take out one of the last remaining water-front dining options. Really excited to have it replaced with a front seat view of a fountain that sometimes works inside of an apartment complex even the Southside would consider ugly. The DIA will most likely approve it and move on to the next sham.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: fieldafm on January 08, 2021, 09:27:07 AM
This is an absolute horror show of a project. WHAT GOOD IS HAVING A RIVERFRONT DOWNTOWN IF ONE CAN'T EVEN USE IT. As I said previously, we had more waterfront dining options in 1995 than we do today - and this God Awful concept would take out one of the last remaining water-front dining options. Really excited to have it replaced with a front seat view of a fountain that sometimes works inside of an apartment complex even the Southside would consider ugly. The DIA will most likely approve it and move on to the next sham.

There will be a restaurant included with the project, that will be separate from the building. The concept would include a large amount of shaded, outdoor seating which will interact much better with Friendship Fountain than what RCBC does now. 

The restaurant renderings will be a separate proposal considered by DDRB, sometime later this year. 

The developer has floated the Glass and Vine restaurant in Miami, as an inspiration for the overall look of the proposed Soutbank restaurant.

Here are a few pictures of Glass and Vine:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Miami/Random-South-Florida-October-2020/i-ntvhJxq/0/b9a850a8/X2/20201101_095832-X2.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Miami/Random-South-Florida-October-2020/i-sGdWT3C/0/273554bf/X2/20201101_100048-X2.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Miami/Random-South-Florida-October-2020/i-xWMZF94/0/7ab737b5/X2/20201101_101004-X2.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Miami/Random-South-Florida-October-2020/i-FHf6JTW/0/ec767d4d/X2/20201101_095849-X2.jpg)
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: fieldafm on January 08, 2021, 09:59:24 AM
Just for curiosity's sake, the developer has made two proposals for Downtown riverfront sites in the past.

The developer had submitted a plan last year to redevelop the former Courthouse/City Hall site, which was ultimately awarded to a different developer. Their RFP submission mostly focused on the massing, uses, site plan, development costs.... and did not provide many details on architectural renderings.

(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/282080_standard.jpeg)



The developer also proposed San Marco Riverwalk Village on the Southbank in 2006. This would have redeveloped the current Lexington Hotel and former Crawdaddy's site (now Broadstone apartments) into five condo towers over 40-stories high, a 9-story Courtyard by Marriott, 2,000 residential units and 177,800-square feet of riverfront retail.

(https://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/plog-content/images/development/building-boom/san_marco_village_final.jpg)



Here is a similar project from the developer in Tampa, where the massing is broken up and the facade treatment is more modern-looking.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIJtQ_RUQAA4W91.jpg)
The site in 2018, a similar-sized parcel- albeit not as rectangular as the RCBC site.

(https://tampamagazines.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Imanor-riverwalk_8247.jpg)
Topped out and still under construction in 2019

(https://mk0relatedgroupg7ars.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Related-Manor-Riverwalk-Hero2.jpg)
Open and operational in 2020

(https://mk0relatedgroupg7ars.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Related-Manor-Riverwalk-Pool.jpg)

(https://www.tampabay.com/resizer/4CGWu2RfvvSKQQre80Zyqq0dZ-8=/620x0/smart/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tbt.s3.amazonaws.com/public/ELA4U2MCSZHV5IQZ5JZ4C733NM.JPG)

(https://www.miamiinfocus.com/images/residence/rentals/manor-rw-tam/02-mrw_ebve_6952fb.jpg)
A view from the street (AKA opposite side of the Tampa Riverwalk)

Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 08, 2021, 10:22:16 AM
I'm not really crazy about the Tampa project but I'd prefer that design to what's proposed for the Southbank.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: jaxlongtimer on January 08, 2021, 11:34:32 AM
Maybe our moderators can merge this thread with two prior ones on this project:  https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,36618.0.html (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,36618.0.html) and https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,36626.0.html (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,36626.0.html)

From the prior threads, I wanted to re-post these comments and picture as this project is looking just like my worst fears expressed then:

It looks like the City is open to high rises abutting the river on both sides throughout Downtown.  Uuggh!  One day we are going to be looking down the river like we are in a giant tunnel with the lack of setbacks.  Just look at the ocean front in South Florida to see what a high rise "wall" looks like (and that's with the ocean on one side).  No aesthetics reflecting the river's character, lack of appropriate scaling, little or no green space, little public access or recreational opportunities, no concern for grade level interactions, blah buildings, etc.


Great article.  I would like to see RCBC remain or be replaced with a like-sized structure and height.  Start the high rise further back.

This picture posted of Tampa on the Hillsborough river is not attractive (I dare say bordering on ugly) at all along the water.  I would hate to see our beautiful St. Johns River framed by buildings like this and this is the point I was making in the initial thread for this project.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/-1/Tampa-July-2020/i-VJ5c6CC/0/4123cbbb/X3/20200718_095757-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: Ken_FSU on January 08, 2021, 12:30:18 PM
Fixed.

(https://snipboard.io/LA4wg1.jpg)
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: jaxlongtimer on January 08, 2021, 12:38:52 PM
^ LOL.  Clever.  We should parody more of these projects.  Let's see what you can do with Lot J and the Doro project. 

Sometimes satire makes the point better than rational discussions.  People open their minds a little bit wider when humor is introduced.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: marcuscnelson on January 08, 2021, 03:28:00 PM
Whoever does the Doro should crib this scene (https://youtu.be/ofXWuHr_G88?t=122) from V for Vendetta. Just replace the Big Brother-type with Curry, the networks with sports podcasters, and the Old Bailey with the Doro. As far as the Jaguars go, "England Prevails" isn't necessarily inaccurate, depending on how you look at it.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: marcuscnelson on January 08, 2021, 03:52:40 PM
As far as the actual project, the biggest challenge is likely asking people to do more than simply accept that this developer wants to build here. I'm sure it's easy for a lot of people to kneejerk and say that we shouldn't get in the way of people who want to build, plus whatever rhetoric people are using to justify Lot J at this point.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 08, 2021, 04:36:38 PM
This one is simple. For this particular project, next week the DDRB needs to tell them to go back to the drawing board with the elevations and provide them examples of the architectural styles they'd prefer over this one. Heck, even offer to have a workshop on the design if it helps. In the long term (like within the next few months), the DIA needs to revamp the downtown design standards and guidelines and get council to approve. With some standards in place, the private sector won't have to guess and will have an idea of what their products should look like in the areas of downtown that they've selected to develop in.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: marcuscnelson on January 08, 2021, 07:18:19 PM
^ What are the odds that the DDRB will do this next week, or any of the other things going forward? Is there a way to pressure them to do so?
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: Florida Power And Light on January 08, 2021, 09:18:41 PM
UGLY

Beyond that, consignment of Waterfront lands to private residential is not efficacious.
No matter how Consulted and Insulted. “ Vision”, as defined. Ooops, Skip that.Public “Visioning” excercise only........ shucks , what are the terms for non binding.....
Imagine winning a City negotiated and issued Lease, with the ability to sell off / convey what was once a  public holding/ “ property “.
..... For This!......

Here’s Looking At You Hacksonville.

Any past efforts to somehow interject Waterways Commission involvement quite hilarious.
For starters.

I recall stepping foot on Downtown Jacksonville in 1979. I took a flight from Miami. My parents had moved to Jacksonville from my native Miami Florida. Our first stop on the way ( Yep- South) from the Airport was Downtown. North Bank. Intriguing. Comfy.Apparently functional. ( Yea, even Ship Yards .....) Potential.
Decades later:
First Coast Outer Beltway Brannon Chaffee
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 08, 2021, 10:20:20 PM
^ What are the odds that the DDRB will do this next week, or any of the other things going forward? Is there a way to pressure them to do so?
Yes, people can write DDRB members, provide their opinion and better examples out there that may worth be exploring. I have to believe if they hit the Home2 Suites project hard last month, they should have a field day with this one.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: Charles Hunter on January 08, 2021, 10:41:14 PM
^ What are the odds that the DDRB will do this next week, or any of the other things going forward? Is there a way to pressure them to do so?
Yes, people can write DDRB members, provide their opinion and better examples out there that may worth be exploring. I have to believe if they hit the Home2 Suites project hard last month, they should have a field day with this one.

I don't know ... this monstrosity seems to wrap around the parking and hide the dumpsters ...
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: Ken_FSU on January 09, 2021, 10:21:09 AM
I sure hope the MOSH got something in writing about the Northbank site, because this thing would really butcher their sight lines if they were to revert back to the original Mosh 2.0 plan. Which, in theory, would be something the DDRB should take into consideration but likely won’t because, in typical Jax faction, everyone is behaving as though a park-front MOSH Genesis at the Shipyards is a foregone conclusion, despite the fact that the Feds haven’t approved any land swap, the Shipyards haven’t been remediated, and no funding mechanism is in place for said park.

If the Spandrel deal falls through (they’ve been at a stalemate with the DIA for six months now; they don’t want to commit to a construction schedule because of the pandemic), wondering what you guys think about the riverfront Ford on Bay property for the new MOSH? Was walking down Bay Street yesterday and was thinking to myself that it would fit in quite well with what MOSH wants to do, particularly with the new Coastline inlet that could be creatively leveraged for boat launches or interactive features. Also closer to the true urban core and doesn’t require any landswap or remediation. Downside would obviously be the opportunity cost of saving it for another use.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 09, 2021, 11:46:18 AM
I believe it still makes sense to move the Prime Osborn's exhibition hall to the Hyatt and position the Hyatt as the convention center. If we don't watch it, we're going to end up with two big vacant hotels in the core of the city. If the only improvement is pushing what takes place at the Prime Osborn now, to the heart of the Northbank, it still helps existing downtown hotels, restaurants and bars more.

MOSH at the old county courthouse isn't a bad idea from this clustering perspective. On the other hand, I'm also not worried about this blocking the existing MOSH location's view. Other than the seldom used roof deck, MOSH is a concrete bunker. At this point, I'd like to see MOSH move because it may be a way to help the Northbank while opening the door for the existing space to be repurposed into another museum or cultural attraction.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: jaxlongtimer on January 09, 2021, 02:10:13 PM
Re; the convention center.  I won't be surprised if Khan's next big idea is for taxpayers to pay $400 million to build a convention center in the vicinity of his planned Lot J and/or Four Seasons hotel so he can make even more bucks on the taxpayer's backs.  He has previously showed this hand with the Shipyard renderings of the past.  No doubt, if he asks, Curry and the Council will give.

I actually would consider the above idea if I could get comfortable with the taxpayers not getting screwed again.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: heights unknown on January 09, 2021, 04:47:05 PM
THEY need to go back to the drawing board on this one. Needs to be something more iconic, and not something that looks like its situated off of one of the I-10 or I-75 exit ramps. It needs to be something that will complement downtown Jacksonville; for DOWNTOWN...not the suburbs, interstate off ramps or the beaches.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: howfam on January 09, 2021, 07:44:18 PM
Fixed.

(https://snipboard.io/LA4wg1.jpg)

Actually  I think the proposed design looks better than the Tampa project. It does have some architectural significance with the end towers, whereas the Tampa project is just square boxes. No thought needed for that design.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: bl8jaxnative on January 11, 2021, 12:30:55 PM
Looks nice
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: heights unknown on January 11, 2021, 01:38:38 PM
Looks nice
Yuck. St. Augustine or Daytona, or even Baldwin? Yes. Jacksonville? No.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: ralpho37 on January 11, 2021, 03:54:37 PM
Jaxlongtimer: To answer your question about architectural awards downtown, the Baptist MD Anderson Cancer Center has won several awards.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: Florida Power And Light on January 11, 2021, 08:31:59 PM
Needs more than going back to the drawing boards.

Travesty.Ugly and Not Necessity.Skip the “ Vision”...... so Sorry at least one DIA member.

I guess if we really “Vision” we might sense Dark Mostly Unappealing To Most River Water Reflection dangling on this most Sordid Image.

Why not???? That’s what happens when the Riverfront Sky is Infilled.

The property was at its height (no pun intended- mostly) back in the early 80’s..... “ Diamond Head”.?????

So we move the Waterfront Restaurant/ Public experience back off the water, let the Lease Holder Sell, Waterfront goes to Private.
What a crock.

Here’s Looking At Us.


The Demand is for Waterfront Restaurant, Public Waterfront.

I had a Dream two nights ago, two persons really upset with me, over Something.

That was Easy!

Demand.

Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: acme54321 on January 13, 2021, 12:23:51 PM
Are the email addresses of the DDRB members listed somewhere?  I could always put comments about this project into the general DIA contact email form on their website but I have doubts that would ever get to the people who make the actual decisions.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: Steve on January 14, 2021, 09:16:53 PM
DDRB agreed 9-0 to defer vote. I wasn't able to listen to the meeting but according to the JDR article, the comments were.....not positive:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/ddrb-defers-conceptual-design-vote-for-rd-river-city-brewery-apartments
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 14, 2021, 09:28:15 PM
Good for the DDRB. This design really needs to go back to the drawing board. Doesn't sound like the architect has a good grasp of the site or downtown if they argued that it fits with the surrounding area.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: marcuscnelson on January 14, 2021, 10:20:12 PM
$16 million? Has it always been that much? Geez.

If we’re already spending that much, any chance of bumping that up to $20 or $25 million provided they turn it into a 16-story tower with a setback from the river? Frankly I’d live with the aesthetic provided that.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: Steve on January 15, 2021, 07:44:05 AM
Good for the DDRB. This design really needs to go back to the drawing board. Doesn't sound like the architect has a good grasp of the site or downtown if they argued that it fits with the surrounding area.

While I don’t always agree with the DDRB (I did in this case), I’d say I feel like they’re growing some teeth of late. The challenge is the consistency with some historic decisions, such as comparing the Home2 Suites vs the rest of Park Street.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: vicupstate on January 15, 2021, 08:05:21 AM
A smaller footprint with more height built up to the street would be a better fit here, and the city should just cancel the lease altogether. Sell them the land under the building (with the smaller footprint) and add the remainder to the park.   
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 15, 2021, 09:42:47 AM
^Yes, they should go with something in the range of 16 stories along Riverplace Blvd and chop off the half closest to the river. Otherwise, it will be hard to keep this thing from looking like a Commieblock, no matter how many features the architect rips off from beach resorts and Disney hotels.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: Charles Hunter on January 15, 2021, 11:31:08 AM
And will those embellishments survive when they start value engineering the thing?  Hope the DDRB sticks to their guns if the developer comes back with just minor tweaks.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: Steve on January 15, 2021, 01:13:47 PM
And will those embellishments survive when they start value engineering the thing?  Hope the DDRB sticks to their guns if the developer comes back with just minor tweaks.

I'll be watching this. Matt Brockelman on the DDRB made a point of saying minor tweaks would not be enough.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: jaxjags on January 15, 2021, 03:54:30 PM
Good for the DDRB. This design really needs to go back to the drawing board. Doesn't sound like the architect has a good grasp of the site or downtown if they argued that it fits with the surrounding area.

While I don’t always agree with the DDRB (I did in this case), I’d say I feel like they’re growing some teeth of late. The challenge is the consistency with some historic decisions, such as comparing the Home2 Suites vs the rest of Park Street.

This comment begs the question, where does the Home2 Suites stand? Maybe I missed it but don't remember hearing anything.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 15, 2021, 04:03:03 PM
I believe the conceptual design was approved with conditions. So the next step would be for the development team to make/address the necessary modifications before coming back for final approval.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: heights unknown on January 15, 2021, 09:49:43 PM
Yes...smaller foot print, 21 stories, set a little more back from the river and not up on it. Yeah, 21 stories is enough...16 is ok, but 21+ makes my butt pucker.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 16, 2021, 01:06:42 PM
Related's latest project proposed for Miami: https://www.thenextmiami.com/revealed-full-plans-renderings-for-related-groups-41-story-miami-station/
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: jaxjags on January 16, 2021, 04:05:18 PM
Related's latest project proposed for Miami: https://www.thenextmiami.com/revealed-full-plans-renderings-for-related-groups-41-story-miami-station/

Lakelander, what are the economics in Miami that makes that project possible versus Jax. Is it the 12 stories of office space? Can they really command that much higher rent to build the 20-25 stories of residential? Are these mainly corporate or seasonal rentals? Are the financials really that much better in Miami. Hopefully you or others have some insight into this. I believe the demand for DT Jax housing is there, just maybe not at the $/square foot that high rise construction cost.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 16, 2021, 04:38:25 PM
The Miami project is a market rate project. I'm not sure of how our economics come into play when we're also giving tens of millions into incentives. They'd likely get shot down here if they proposed a highrise. Remember, the apartment project under construction next to One Call got sliced down from 12 to 8 stories after the next door neighborhood filed a suit. Nevertheless, I think it shows we don't have to get stuck with a shitty looking project. It also shows, that they have the ability to provide something superior looking to what's been proposed here.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: heights unknown on January 16, 2021, 08:12:59 PM
Related's latest project proposed for Miami: https://www.thenextmiami.com/revealed-full-plans-renderings-for-related-groups-41-story-miami-station/
Related's latest project proposed for Miami: https://www.thenextmiami.com/revealed-full-plans-renderings-for-related-groups-41-story-miami-station/
Now THAT would look awesome sitting on the southbank staring at the northbank. Yes! Pipe dream though I'll bet.
Title: Re: RD River City Brewing Apartment Renderings
Post by: jaxlongtimer on January 16, 2021, 10:01:59 PM
The Miami project is a market rate project. I'm not sure of how our economics come into play when we're also giving tens of millions into incentives. They'd likely get shot down here if they proposed a highrise. Remember, the apartment project under construction next to One Call got sliced down from 12 to 8 stories after the next door neighborhood filed a suit. Nevertheless, I think it shows we don't have to get stuck with a shitty looking project. It also shows, that they have the ability to provide something superior looking to what's been proposed here.

I am surmising the high rise next to One Call got shot down because it was so close to the One Call building.  For much of the One Call building, a high rise on the spot for the apartments would essentially make about half the One Call building a "non-riverfront" view probably reducing rents there.  So, they filed suit and apparently had enough legal/zoning leverage, to nix the high rise,  I would guess the facts and circumstances here would be more akin to the Peninsula or Strand high rises and don't see why they couldn't go more vertical as a result.