The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: Ken_FSU on November 19, 2020, 11:14:01 AM

Title: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Ken_FSU on November 19, 2020, 11:14:01 AM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/dia-wants-the-landing-to-start-with-a-park
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: marcuscnelson on November 19, 2020, 11:23:40 AM
Sigh…

So apparently the Landing is no more, we're supposed to call this place Riverfront Plaza now. I'm sure that being the name used on the Curry drawing is just a coincidence.

And now we get to wait until the new year for the RFP to go out, then probably a few more months for designs to be made and submitted, then another month for the DIA to review and choose one, then another RFP for the commercial space, annnnnd it's 2030.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: thelakelander on November 19, 2020, 11:30:56 AM
^LOL, the nightmare we warned would happen nearly two years ago is now upon us. As predicted, that demo set that site back a decade. Never discount the benefit of a shorter implementation timeframe when it comes to adaptive reuse of structurally sound public assets, no matter what the public official of the day will try sell you.

Could have easily had a food hall, brewery, event space, cultural attraction and/or other new uses already open in a revamped Landing, adding to the tenants that were already in operation, for less than it cost to buy, raze, dream more and wait. Now we're stuck with spending more money and time doing more studying and design concepts (seriously, how many more of these do we actually need?) and several years before there will be anything decent, funded and constructed on the site. In the meantime, our reality is a pretty dead space in the heart of the city. 

It's too late for this site and the Ford at Bay. I'm hoping we don't repeat these mistakes with the MOSH building and land when they vacate.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Ken_FSU on November 19, 2020, 11:48:23 AM
^With you guys on all this, we should have just partnered with Sleiman on Landing improvements in the same way we're partnering with the Jags, but just looking for some positives in this mess going forward:

1) Even though I'd love to see a larger portion of the property set aside for mixed-use development, at least the DIA wants to ensure that the park element is worthy of the prime location, is soliciting multiple designs, and is letting the public weigh in. Per the article, they absolutely do not want an empty lawn fronting the private pads.

2) I think the DIA is onto something here as well with their plans for parks at Friendship Fountains/St. Johns Park, the Landing, the District, and potentially future development at Berkman II and Met Park/Shipyards. They essentially want to set aside a portion of incremental tax revenue from each development that has to be used solely for annual maintenance and upkeep of that development's respective public greenspace. I think this will go a long way toward helping these parks thrive.

3) Call me an optimist (I totally am), but I think we'll see construction start on the new Landing before we see construction start on anything at the Sports Complex. If the park design RFP goes out on January 1st as planned, we should have a design chosen by the end of Spring that would trigger an RFP for private development of the pads. FDOT starts on the pedestrian ramp removal at the Landing site in February and plans to be wrapped by end of summer. I don't think it's inconceivable that we see major work underway at the Landing by early-to-mid 2022.

Never should have come to this, but hopefully something good happens with the site.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: marcuscnelson on November 19, 2020, 12:23:59 PM
It's too late for this site and the Ford at Bay. I'm hoping we don't repeat these mistakes with the MOSH building and land when they vacate.

Problem is, little to nothing has changed that would prevent repeating those mistakes in the future. Curry is still in charge, and likely will be until 2023. City Council hasn't substantially changed, although Lot J might be breaking some backs. The DIA might be learning, based on some comments about the Related project by MOSH, but that's not clear yet. JTA is clearly not going to get their act together with a transit system that connects all of this in a rational way.

I worry that we're going to end up blowing half a billion dollars over the next two years in a way that doesn't present a cohesive vision for downtown or secure a serious future with the Jags, then elect Curry's handpicked successor and wonder why things aren't working. And then people will start getting upset at why we're spending so much money downtown and we don't seem to have much to show for it.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: thelakelander on November 19, 2020, 12:27:04 PM
^With you guys on all this, we should have just partnered with Sleiman on Landing improvements in the same way we're partnering with the Jags, but just looking for some positives in this mess going forward:

1) Even though I'd love to see a larger portion of the property set aside for mixed-use development, at least the DIA wants to ensure that the park element is worthy of the prime location, is soliciting multiple designs, and is letting the public weigh in. Per the article, they absolutely do not want an empty lawn fronting the private pads.

Perhaps I'm too close to it. If I look from the window of my downtown office, 15 floors below I see a dead space that didn't have to be this way. I don't see many positives right now, just more of the same. It's all predictable because we've been here before. We spent hundreds of thousands on public engagement and plan by a more than qualified urban waterfront development firm to produce a plan in 2015. Dust it off and implement it. All this says to me is that the public wasted their time and money five years ago.

Quote
2) I think the DIA is onto something here as well with their plans for parks at Friendship Fountains/St. Johns Park, the Landing, the District, and potentially future development at Berkman II and Met Park/Shipyards. They essentially want to set aside a portion of incremental tax revenue from each development that has to be used solely for annual maintenance and upkeep of that development's respective public greenspace. I think this will go a long way toward helping these parks thrive.

Yes, maintaining public spaces is a plus. Hopefully more funds can be allocated for maintenance but this is something that should be 100% expected in a thriving city.

Quote
3) Call me an optimist (I totally am), but I think we'll see construction start on the new Landing before we see construction start on anything at the Sports Complex. If the park design RFP goes out on January 1st as planned, we should have a design chosen by the end of Spring that would trigger an RFP for private development of the pads. FDOT starts on the pedestrian ramp removal at the Landing site in February and plans to be wrapped by end of summer. I don't think it's inconceivable that we see major work underway at the Landing by early-to-mid 2022.

You're an optimist. Early 2022 is 13 months away. Nothing will be breaking ground that quick when the RFP for what amounts to a conceptual design competition hasn't even gone out. If any transparent amount of public engagement is included, that alone will stretch out the schedule by a couple of months at the minimum. We haven't even addressed allocating a good $50 million in the budget to pay for a decent space, getting council approval to spend that type of money, time associated with DDRB reviews, permitting with various agencies, etc.

Quote
Never should have come to this, but hopefully something good happens with the site.

Something will happen. However, we likely won't be able to enjoy a finished product at this site until close to 10 years after Sleiman's buyout and eviction of the previous tenants. That's just the realist in me speaking.  When you go this route, things simply take time, regardless of whether its Jax, Miami or NYC.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: thelakelander on November 19, 2020, 12:29:23 PM
I worry that we're going to end up blowing half a billion dollars over the next two years in a way that doesn't present a cohesive vision for downtown or secure a serious future with the Jags, then elect Curry's handpicked successor and wonder why things aren't working. And then people will start getting upset at why we're spending so much money downtown and we don't seem to have much to show for it.

I share similar concerns.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: bl8jaxnative on November 20, 2020, 11:04:27 AM

So who calls the shots on the old site?  The land is owned by the city, correct?  That is why there's talk about RFPs in the future, etc, right?


And so DIA in this case is chiming in because they don't want the site neglected until something else occurs?
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: heights unknown on November 20, 2020, 11:42:21 PM
You've gotta be kidding me. Lori Boyer needs to be fired. They all make me sick.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: heights unknown on November 20, 2020, 11:43:17 PM
I just DON'T understand this analogy.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: thelakelander on November 21, 2020, 12:40:14 AM

So who calls the shots on the old site?  The land is owned by the city, correct?  That is why there's talk about RFPs in the future, etc, right?


And so DIA in this case is chiming in because they don't want the site neglected until something else occurs?

The whole announcement is old news. This has been the plan ever since Curry and crew created this paper napkin sketch of their vision for the site before buying Sleiman out.

(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Business/Jacksonville-Landing/i-hPvBnQP/0/87d38d84/L/183444_standard-L.png)
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: heights unknown on November 21, 2020, 06:48:05 PM

So who calls the shots on the old site?  The land is owned by the city, correct?  That is why there's talk about RFPs in the future, etc, right?


And so DIA in this case is chiming in because they don't want the site neglected until something else occurs?

The whole announcement is old news. This has been the plan ever since Curry and crew created this paper napkin sketch of their vision for the site before buying Sleiman out.

(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Business/Jacksonville-Landing/i-hPvBnQP/0/87d38d84/L/183444_standard-L.png)
Please. Yes, old news. Yes stupid news. Yes I am not over it.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Florida Power And Light on November 22, 2020, 07:25:18 PM
Public Use Riverfront.
Open green space visual scenery.
A rare accomplishment.

Jacksonville’s Gracious Front Porch.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: heights unknown on November 22, 2020, 08:02:42 PM
Sigh…

So apparently the Landing is no more, we're supposed to call this place Riverfront Plaza now. I'm sure that being the name used on the Curry drawing is just a coincidence.

And now we get to wait until the new year for the RFP to go out, then probably a few more months for designs to be made and submitted, then another month for the DIA to review and choose one, then another RFP for the commercial space, annnnnd it's 2030.
Annnnnnnd by then most of us will be near death dirt or pushing up daisies. Oh well, we can't stay here forever.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: marcuscnelson on November 24, 2020, 06:08:09 PM
So it begins.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/documents-show-dia-wants-final-jacksonville-landing-park-design-by-august-2021

Quote
Obtained through a Nov. 18 public records request, the draft outlines the process to select three teams to provide 50% of the public park design by April 1, 2021.

The RFP is part of the city’s plan to redevelop the former Jacksonville Landing property after the city razed the two-story riverfront shopping mall in May.

The DIA would set an Aug. 31, 2021 deadline for the top-scoring team to submit a final design that includes an estimated construction budget, according to the documents.

As expected, we'll be 3/4 of the way through next year before we even have a final design for the space. Although I imagine it won't look all that different from what Curry's office put out.

Quote
DIA CEO Lori Boyer said in a Nov. 11 interview that she does not want to put the rest of the 6.8-acre site on the market for private development until the preliminary park/plaza design is complete.

And to top it off, we won't even start looking for things to put besides the park space until… I can't tell if that quote means April or September. So I guess we'll have some idea of what the entire place is going to look like… perhaps early 2022?
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: thelakelander on November 24, 2020, 09:22:28 PM
What they'll hopefully have by mid-2021 is a final conceptual design at best.  The article mentioned what will come next in the design phase:

Quote
Mayor Lenny Curry’s administration budgeted an additional $2 million for the Landing by fiscal year 2021-22 for preengineering, engineering and landscape work on the Landing’s public space.

If we're lucky, there will be a final design sometime in 2022-2023. Before construction will start, there will still be a need to allocate construction funds in the budget. For a decent urban park, that could be upwards of $20 to $50 million. St. Pete's Pier cost $92 million for comparison's sake. This is what I said a few days ago. I stand by it, no matter what the DIA and Mayors Office tell local media, based on person experience of being involved in projects like this in multiple cities throughout my career.


3) Call me an optimist (I totally am), but I think we'll see construction start on the new Landing before we see construction start on anything at the Sports Complex. If the park design RFP goes out on January 1st as planned, we should have a design chosen by the end of Spring that would trigger an RFP for private development of the pads. FDOT starts on the pedestrian ramp removal at the Landing site in February and plans to be wrapped by end of summer. I don't think it's inconceivable that we see major work underway at the Landing by early-to-mid 2022.

You're an optimist. Early 2022 is 13 months away. Nothing will be breaking ground that quick when the RFP for what amounts to a conceptual design competition hasn't even gone out. If any transparent amount of public engagement is included, that alone will stretch out the schedule by a couple of months at the minimum. We haven't even addressed allocating a good $50 million in the budget to pay for a decent space, getting council approval to spend that type of money, time associated with DDRB reviews, permitting with various agencies, etc.

Based on this most recent article, we'd be lucky if the engineering level design phase will even be underway by early 2022.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Ken_FSU on November 25, 2020, 12:20:05 AM
^Keep in mind that, back in 2017, I thought the Trio would be complete, the Landing would be redeveloped, and the Shipyards would be under construction by end of 2020 ;D

Eternal optimist.



Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: thelakelander on November 25, 2020, 12:34:33 AM
I'd have to go back and look it up but I feel we're a year behind with current Landing RFP talk. I recall this was something Hughes and Boyer claimed at one point that would take begin in early 2020.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: marcuscnelson on November 25, 2020, 01:55:42 AM
What they'll hopefully have by mid-2021 is a final conceptual design at best.  The article mentioned what will come next in the design phase:

Quote
Mayor Lenny Curry’s administration budgeted an additional $2 million for the Landing by fiscal year 2021-22 for preengineering, engineering and landscape work on the Landing’s public space.

If we're lucky, there will be a final design sometime in 2022-2023. Before construction will start, there will still be a need to allocate construction funds in the budget. For a decent urban park, that could be upwards of $20 to $50 million. St. Pete's Pier cost $92 million for comparison's sake. This is what I said a few days ago. I stand by it, no matter what the DIA and Mayors Office tell local media, based on person experience of being involved in projects like this in multiple cities throughout my career.

To top it off, this will likely (even if it shouldn't) be competing with Metro Park (once NPS approves a move) for funding. I get a bad feeling that Jacksonville of all places isn't about to drop big money on two urban riverfront parks, which means one is probably going to get short-changed.

Or worse, that neither are decent urban riverfront parks.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: marcuscnelson on January 19, 2021, 02:22:57 PM
DIA to start search Jan. 20 for firms to design park at former Jacksonville Landing site

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/dia-to-start-search-jan-20-for-firms-to-design-park-at-former-jacksonville-landing-site
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Ken_FSU on January 19, 2021, 06:56:37 PM
RFP specifically notes supplementary buildings and features in addition to the two smallish development pads flanking the property, so hopefully the finished product ends up looking like something closer to the 2015 Wakfield Beasley plan designed by experienced professionals, and less like the 2018 Lenny's Lawn plan designed by Brian Hughes on the back of a cocktail napkin.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: thelakelander on January 19, 2021, 09:22:18 PM
I'm still wondering why we aren't using that plan we already paid for? Is it because it's a Brown administration and Sleiman associated product?
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: heights unknown on January 19, 2021, 10:55:22 PM
This stinks like a skunk in a pickle barrel. If they build a park there, it will be permanent, and nothing else will be planned or built there like the Landing, or whatever! It stinks!
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Ken_FSU on January 19, 2021, 11:25:40 PM
I'm still wondering why we aren't using that plan we already paid for? Is it because it's a Brown administration and Sleiman associated product?

You never know.

If you’re petty enough to sink Sleiman’s redevelopment efforts at the Landing, bully him out of his long-term lease, and bulldoze the property in part just to settle a political feud against Sleiman for appearing in a campaign ad with Alvin Brown...

Worth stating the obvious that even Curry’s bullying is trash.

He was supposed to TAKE Sleiman’s milk money, not give him his own.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 18, 2021, 05:02:37 PM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/three-national-firms-selected-in-former-landing-park-design-competition

Three firms selected.

Quote
• Agency Landscape + Planning LLC of Cambridge, Massachusetts. The company’s work includes phase one of the 10-acre Bay Park in Sarasota and the 2015 Downtown Experience plan in Raleigh, North Carolina.

• Olin Partnership Ltd. of Philadelphia. Olin is designing a 1.2-mile stretch of riverfront in Alexandria, Virginia, and in 1991 designed Bryant Park’s restoration in New York City.

• Perkins & Will Inc. of Chicago. The company’s work includes historic Emancipation Park in Houston and Waterfront Botanical Gardens in Louisville, Kentucky. 

Some other notes:

Quote
DIA officials want the firm selected to have its design complete by Oct. 1, then the city will bid construction and break ground on the park in early 2022.

Boyer said Feb. 4 that the timeline would allow for construction costs to be included in the city’s 2021-22 fiscal year budget.

DIA officials want the public park under construction before private development begins on two pads which city documents show on the northwest and northeast corners of the site.

So we'd be looking at nearly three years since closing to start construction on the replacement park. Which is still before they actually start working on development.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: thelakelander on March 18, 2021, 06:58:53 PM
If they break ground on construction of the park space in early 2022, that will be something. I wonder if there is a cap on the anticipated construction cost?
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: landfall on March 18, 2021, 07:26:00 PM
Only Jacksonville could make such a lengthy process out of grass, trees and benches.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 18, 2021, 08:37:29 PM
I wonder if there is a cap on the anticipated construction cost?

It sounds like we'll know on the 26th.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: tufsu1 on March 21, 2021, 10:34:08 PM
Two of the shortlisted firms have very strong national/global resumes for downtown and waterfront projects. So do a few firms that didn't make the cut.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: acme54321 on March 21, 2021, 10:51:31 PM
So what your saying is that we'll select the firm that doesn't?
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 22, 2021, 01:03:06 AM
^ It's the Jacksonville Way.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: CityLife on March 22, 2021, 11:26:29 AM
Two of the shortlisted firms have very strong national/global resumes for downtown and waterfront projects. So do a few firms that didn't make the cut.
Agreed, the firms selected and some that didn't make it are very strong. I just hope they are putting their A or B teams on the project with the hopes that this can be a high profile project. A lot of them are design factories and it's an easy $125k for them win or lose.

It's easy to be pessimistic with how things have been going downtown, but these firms should be able to create some very impressive concepts. It's just a matter of how willing Jacksonville will be to fund it. I think the Landing was still salvageable and should have been repurposed before being torn town, but it can EASILY be surpassed with quality design and money thrown at it. 


Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: thelakelander on March 22, 2021, 12:00:40 PM
The firms mean pretty much nothing to me. The firm that did the 2015 design was a nationally credible firm as well. All can design and Jax has had plenty of things designed that look great on paper. Call me when we know how many millions the project will cost and we actually allocate and spend the money to build.

I think the Landing was still salvageable and should have been repurposed before being torn town, but it can EASILY be surpassed with quality design and money thrown at it.

When it's all said and done, I'd argue we'd end up in the same spot....but with years of the site being active in the interim. We could have easily kept the place open, had the same firms come up with designs for the site and ended up with something just as creative and unique and continuously occupied during the transformation.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: heights unknown on March 22, 2021, 01:01:36 PM
Stoopid. A park...sheesh.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Downtown Osprey on March 22, 2021, 01:51:04 PM
Render-Ville strikes again!
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Ken_FSU on March 29, 2021, 08:17:59 PM
$10-$15 million is what the city is budgeting for the new Landing park.

To be included in next year's CIP.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: thelakelander on March 29, 2021, 09:56:52 PM
So nothing on the level of the new $92 million St. Pete Pier? Closer in the range of Water Works Park in Tampa Heights.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 29, 2021, 10:26:49 PM
Unsurprising that it's far less than St. Pete. Too busy expanding all the interstates and building pod cars.

Looking at Water Works Park (https://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/tampa-opens-water-works-park-today-and-looks-for-big-things-to-follow/2192536/), I see it's about $7.4 million for 5 acres. "Riverfront Plaza" is supposed to be a minimum of 4.5 acres. It certainly doesn't look terrible (https://www.tampa.gov/document/waterworksparkmap-28821), but I don't know if it screams "iconic urban space." Most of the space does look to be just open greenspace of some kind, similarly to the Mayor's office drawing, and I wonder what that says in terms of activity. I also wonder how much of that money is budgeted for maintenance, because it does us little good to end up with a run-down husk of a park in ten years because we couldn't keep it clean and programmed.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: thelakelander on March 29, 2021, 11:10:22 PM
Water Works Park is well maintained but nothing special. Those types of spaces are pretty common in cities, big and small these days. DT Tampa's main urban park is Curtis Hixon Waterfront Park. It was revamped to the tune of $43 million back in 2010. In addition to the cost of that space, the Tampa Museum of Art opened shortly after. Anchoring the park, it cost another $34 million. Another $21 million was needed to build the Children's Museum next to it. That's $98 million spent and I'd still say it isn't an iconic space. The Landing park likely won't be iconic, when compared to what exists in most cities across the country. However, it should be better than the typical Jacksonville park space. It's a high profile project for those involved.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Ken_FSU on March 30, 2021, 05:12:27 PM
I wonder how much of that money is budgeted for maintenance, because it does us little good to end up with a run-down husk of a park in ten years because we couldn't keep it clean and programmed.

None.

The DIA plans to use incremental tax revenue, as well as a portion of any property taxes resulting from the proposed private development pads, to fund an annual maintenance budget for the new park.

They’re doing the same thing with the Related project (incremental taxes will be preserved for maintenance of Friendship Fountain/St. Johns Park to the estimated tune of about $150k a year), as well as the proposed public parks at the District. 

Wouldn’t be surprised to see similar arrangements with MOSH/Shipyards park and Jags/Met Park, assuming any of these things actually happen.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: jaxlongtimer on March 31, 2021, 04:21:09 PM
First step to Landing redevelopment is below.  All I can say is I hope they address the tidal wave of cars leaving after a show at the Times Union Center with either coordinated lights and/or JSO traffic control given the distance and intersection traffic will have to pass through to access the bridge (needs to also be done for access to the Acosta).

Sadly, we don't give the arts the same attention we give the Jags when it comes to traffic management and it hurts business Downtown as a result.  I have waited up to almost an hour to get out of this area (and the Arena area) after events/shows.  A real cluster.  This should also be addressed by Curry's Downtown "Fixers."

Following per FDOT:
Quote
Independent Drive Ramp to Main Street Bridge to Close Permanently April 15

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. – The Independent Drive ramp to the southbound Main Street Bridge will close permanently April 15. The closure will allow crews to demolish the ramp.

Motorists on Independent Drive seeking to travel south on the Main Street Bridge will continue past the ramp, turn left on Bay Street and turn left on the Main Street Bridge and continue toward their destination, as shown in the map below.
 
During construction, the west pedestrian sidewalk of the bridge will be closed. Pedestrians will be detoured to the east pedestrian access to the bridge. Signage will be in place to assist roadway users and pedestrians. 

Superior Construction was awarded the $584,000 project, which is expected to be completed in summer 2021, weather and unforeseen circumstances permitting.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Ken_FSU on April 02, 2021, 09:28:44 AM
Couple of details from the DIA's Q&A with the three chosen finalists, via the JBJ (https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2021/04/01/dia-discusses-second-phase-landing-rfp.html)

Quote
“You may put a significant amount of the budget into the art piece,” Boyer said. “We are looking for something that is memorable and recognized as ‘Oh, that’s Jacksonville.’”

A firm budget for the project has not been set, but the city has been using $12 million as a placeholder.

The aspect of the design that makes it iconic could be something that frames the view of the site from the river or toward the river or an architectural or art piece, Boyer said.

“Let me throw out an example: your art piece looks like the Chicago Bean, but it’s the Jacksonville version of something,” Boyer said. “It wouldn’t necessarily be tall and lighted and meet their criteria for the beacon element, but you could suggest that be placed on the adjacent site.”

One developer noted that a “recognizable” art piece is a “pretty commanding question to answer” without knowing a final budget. Boyer responded that a project that proposes something outside of the placeholder budget would be evaluated accordingly.

“We want this to be a memorable space, but if a competing team happens to come in with a very memorable space with a wonderful piece of art that maybe costs $3 million or $5 million and gets us there, that will be part of the evaluation,” Boyer said.

Boyer also made recommendations for the firms moving forward, including the nature of their designs related to the riverfront. She said that due to the bulkhead replacement, she recommended developers not design something that goes over the water that would significantly alter the existing dock or bulkhead.

Hmmmmm.

So we're looking for a memorable space, with an iconic design, and a preference for something that looks nice from the river, acts as a lit beacon, and instantly screams "Jacksonville, Florida."

Not easy to do, but I think it's possible.

Forgive my art skills, I'm more of a numbers guy, but I think something like this just might work to fulfill that criteria:


...


...


...


...


...


...


...


...

(https://www.jacksonville.com/galleryimage/LK/20191204/PHOTOGALLERY/120409991/PH/0/1/PH-120409991.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ea/55/bd/ea55bd00f812b771b52cb70bcbdf478d.jpg)

Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Peter Griffin on April 02, 2021, 09:33:52 AM
The horse is dead, Ken. No need to keep beating it
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2021, 09:44:39 AM
Sorry KenFSU, you can't build something like the Landing for $12MM to $15MM. We'll also need more than a Jacksonville version of Chicago's Bean (which cost $23MM itself). I hope people pay more attention to Millennium Park and the sum of its parts than an isolated piece of art work. It will be a challenge to design a space that's really "iconic" for such a low budget. Anyway, wish them well.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Ken_FSU on April 02, 2021, 10:31:16 AM
The horse is dead, Ken. No need to keep beating it

Oh, it's been dead for a year.

It's just baffling to me that what Boyer is describing as being a best-case scenario for this new public space is pretty much exactly what Boyer voted to spend $23 million to demolish.

Also baffling that we're speaking of this space as our crown jewel for redevelopment, yet constraining the construction budget to roughly half of the removal budget, including public art.

Equally baffling that - just like we did with Lot J - we're putting the cart before the horse in terms of removing a genuinely useful, popular ramp that serves as a genuine amenity for pedestrians before we even have a site plan for the new Landing or any agreements for private development.

Desperately hoping for a grand slam with the new Landing, but doesn't change the fact that this entire plan was devised on the back of a napkin by the mayor's office, with no public oversight or outside expertise, and has been loyally executed by the DIA - right down to the name and limited private development presence - with no questions asked.

I honestly do try to not be pessimistic, and I think there is some progress with the blocking the tackling, but between the new Landing, the new Skyway, parking decisions, and continued demolition, it's kind of scary how little has been learned from past failures.

Decisions we make on these projects today are going to dictate what our downtown looks like 20 years from now.

And when you look at the budgets for things like the Landing and the Emerald Trail vs. things like U2C and this goofy jail proposal that is still floating around, I don't know.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2021, 11:11:02 AM
^Ultimately, some personnel changes in city hall will be needed. History has proven time and time again that downtown revitalization decisions will be tainted and influenced by things that simply aren't needed at the expense, but added and implemented via personal opinion of decision makers that may not be best qualified to make said decisions. Don't become a cheerleader or get overly optimistic with the future without better understanding the past or seeing change with that dynamic. With that said, try not to be pessimistic but definitely be realistic and don't hesitate to slap the big cups of kool aid being passed out, right out of people's hands.

From a realistic perspective, it's the non sexy, non newspaper headline grabbing policy stuff that is worthy of celebration. Like the incentives update to the historic preservation trust fund. We haven't had the same number of demolitions proposed in the Northbank since that went through. If anything, we should extend the Downtown National Register Historic District to cover adjacent historic areas like LaVilla, so those property owners will have an inclusive and equitable opportunity as well.

In addition, if the gas tax is passed, the local revenue generated from the move is the transformative and game changing element. Yet, there's still tons of work to do to make sure we're not wasting the revenue on foolish projects while not properly funding the right projects. The Landing site would be an example of this. If we want this to be iconic, it's way too early to restrict the cost to something that peer cities throw into regular neighborhood parks. If we want a Bean, then we need to know the cost of the Bean and be willing to throw a similar number into the budget for that item. If we want an iconic park, we need to take a look at spaces we consider to be iconic and be willing to provide funding in a similar price range for a space of our own.

If we're not willing to drop $50MM to $100MM, then let's stop using the word iconic, because we simply aren't getting there if that definition applies to a comparison of similar spaces in peer communities. By the same token, it's also foolish to throw hundreds of millions into moving the jail, when those funds could literally 100% buildout a quality of life project like the Emerald Trail, restore Springfield Park, resolve the convention center dilemma now or give you a real centralized iconic public park to cluster around.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: fsu813 on April 07, 2021, 01:14:24 PM
I'd like to start a movement to relocate the orange T-rex statue to the Landing site. This would be the strategic silver bullet move that checks all the boxes.

✔ iconic
✔ unique
✔ public art
✔ engaging
✔ sense of place
✔ pedestrian scale
✔ regional attraction
✔ catalyst for investment
✔ surprisingly low upfront costs

Beach Boulevard sucks. This needs to be it's new home.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Ken_FSU on April 07, 2021, 11:57:34 PM
I'd like to start a movement to relocate the orange T-rex statue to the Landing site. This would be the strategic silver bullet move that checks all the boxes.

✔ iconic
✔ unique
✔ public art
✔ engaging
✔ sense of place
✔ pedestrian scale
✔ regional attraction
✔ catalyst for investment
✔ surprisingly low upfront costs

Beach Boulevard sucks. This needs to be it's new home.

Not gonna lie, I don't hate this idea.

Not necessarily for the Landing, but it'd be fun to have the T-Rex on the river somewhere for all the reasons you listed above.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: jaxlongtimer on April 08, 2021, 12:07:47 AM
^Might add that a dinosaur is a metaphor for the current state of Downtown  ;D.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Ken_FSU on April 08, 2021, 08:18:15 AM
^Might add that a dinosaur is a metaphor for the current state of Downtown  ;D.

Part of the reason why I love it  ;D

At least we can blame the endless rubble, blighted buildings, and countless surface lots on an extinction event.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Jason on April 08, 2021, 11:58:34 AM
Should make it a Godzilla statue and we can just blame him for razing half of downtown....
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: jcjohnpaint on April 08, 2021, 12:13:29 PM
I think Godzilla is Curry's spirit animal
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: fsu813 on April 08, 2021, 03:57:56 PM
I'd like to start a movement to relocate the orange T-rex statue to the Landing site. This would be the strategic silver bullet move that checks all the boxes.

✔ iconic
✔ unique
✔ public art
✔ engaging
✔ sense of place
✔ pedestrian scale
✔ regional attraction
✔ catalyst for investment
✔ surprisingly low upfront costs

Beach Boulevard sucks. This needs to be it's new home.

✔ Rename the former Landing site "JURASSIC PARK"

These brilliant ideas are all free of charge, btw. I need to be on someone's marketing payroll.
Title: Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
Post by: Zac T on April 09, 2021, 11:23:27 AM
Agency Landscape + Planning had a tent at the Jax River Jams concert last night and were engaging people on what type of amenities they'd like to see in a park at the former Landing site. You can call or text 539-3826 to leave recommendations