The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: thelakelander on September 17, 2020, 08:05:28 AM

Title: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: thelakelander on September 17, 2020, 08:05:28 AM
Do we really want people downtown? Increasing the parking rates don't help.

Quote
Citing factors such as a decrease in demand, the Covid-19 pandemic and other market conditions, the DIA will consider two resolutions to increase public off-street parking rates and a phase out of employee parking discounts.

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2020/09/16/dia-to-consider-parking-rate-increases.html?iana=hpmvp_jac_news_headline
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: vicupstate on September 17, 2020, 08:30:23 AM
^^
It is better to make $250k in parking fees, than $5-10 million in additional property taxes from increased valuations.  That is basically what the city is proclaiming with this action.
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: CityLife on September 17, 2020, 08:34:57 AM
Apparently they don't teach basic supply and demand at It's Easier Here University.
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: thelakelander on September 17, 2020, 09:55:52 AM
Common sense says if you want someone or something, you pull out all the moves to attract them. We say we want people downtown and we're willing to spend millions on questionable projects like Lot J, that really don't move that needle forward when considering ROI for funds spent. Yet, we seriously consider ideas to price gouge the average woman and man that we claim we want downtown consistently.

I was in downtown Ocala two weeks ago (which is more active in its heart than DT Jax is right now). As an incentive to attract customers to support their small businesses during this COVID pandemic, their on-street metered parking fees were suspended. Some type of way, we come up with a completely opposite reaction where we'll price gouge the few people still in downtown? Downtown has a lot of potential but we're seriously broken from a public policy perspective and that will continue to limit our progress.
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: Ken_FSU on September 17, 2020, 10:55:01 AM
In what UNIVERSE has parking demand increased downtown in the last six months?

Before the pandemic, if I got to the office after 9:00 or 9:30, I was parking on the fifth floor of the Duval Street garage.

No matter what time I come or go these last few months, the garage is a ghost town from mid-second floor up.

Insanely counterproductive.
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: thelakelander on September 17, 2020, 11:12:38 AM
The on-street spaces on Hogan Street near my downtown office used to always be full. Since the pandemic, they stay mostly empty.
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: lowlyplanner on September 17, 2020, 12:47:06 PM
Long term, the City does need to raise on-street parking rates.  Is the middle of a pandemic that has killed downtown parking demand really the best time to do it?  I kind of agree that it is not.

The employee discounts were put in when the City was in a terrible shape with it's budget and couldn't afford to do any other kind of raise for employees.  That situation has passed, and City employees have gotten cost of living increases lately.
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: BridgeTroll on September 17, 2020, 01:45:59 PM
Don't companies that employ people downtown subsidize their employees parking?  Vystar moved downtown bringing employees who never paid for parking before into a situation where I assume they now have to pay.  That seems like a heavy expense for the average employee... perhaps someone could explain the employer/employee parking situation downtown...
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: Steve on September 17, 2020, 02:26:02 PM
Don't companies that employ people downtown subsidize their employees parking?  Vystar moved downtown bringing employees who never paid for parking before into a situation where I assume they now have to pay.  That seems like a heavy expense for the average employee... perhaps someone could explain the employer/employee parking situation downtown...

VyStar and TIAA Bank cover parking for employees. Others vary.
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: Bativac on September 17, 2020, 02:33:18 PM
Common sense says if you want someone or something, you pull out all the moves to attract them. We say we want people downtown and we're willing to spend millions on questionable projects like Lot J, that really don't move that needle forward when considering ROI for funds spent. Yet, we seriously consider ideas to price gouge the average woman and man that we claim we want downtown consistently.

I was in downtown Ocala two weeks ago (which is more active in its heart than DT Jax is right now). As an incentive to attract customers to support their small businesses during this COVID pandemic, their on-street metered parking fees were suspended. Some type of way, we come up with a completely opposite reaction where we'll price gouge the few people still in downtown? Downtown has a lot of potential but we're seriously broken from a public policy perspective and that will continue to limit our progress.

Where I live in Burbank CA they've made several downtown streets pedestrian-only and set up outdoor dining. Of course there are several streets with thriving restaurants so it kind of works. (There is ample free parking tho some of it has time limits.) Other cities in SoCal have done similar things to encourage people to patronize businesses that are hurting. Seems to be working. But Jax has a knack, somehow, for doing the exact opposite of what would make sense, so...
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: thelakelander on September 17, 2020, 03:00:18 PM
Don't companies that employ people downtown subsidize their employees parking?  Vystar moved downtown bringing employees who never paid for parking before into a situation where I assume they now have to pay.  That seems like a heavy expense for the average employee... perhaps someone could explain the employer/employee parking situation downtown...

Not all. My company does not. They don't at the headquarters in Chicago either but coworkers at the cosmopolitan offices have more multimodal options at their disposal and those in the rural and suburban offices can park for free. So those in the Jax office are just screwed.
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: Captain Zissou on September 17, 2020, 03:08:03 PM
My company pays for the cheapest available parking garage and if you want a better garage they will contribute the same amount to that garage.  We have about 250 employees locally, so any increase will be very impactful to their expenses.
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: Ken_FSU on September 17, 2020, 03:42:41 PM
Employer covers half of our parking fees, but a lot of friends who work downtown pay fully for their own parking.

This vote passed unanimously with the DIA, as an FYI, just like the Landing demo passed near-unanimously (minus 1 vote) with City Council.

Makes you wonder how much common sense we're dealing with.

Basic economics says that if you raise the barrier to entry for new businesses and raise of cost of doing businesses to those already here, you're running directly counter to your goals of an increased workforce downtown.
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: bl8jaxnative on September 17, 2020, 04:34:01 PM
Don't companies that employ people downtown subsidize their employees parking?  Vystar moved downtown bringing employees who never paid for parking before into a situation where I assume they now have to pay.  That seems like a heavy expense for the average employee... perhaps someone could explain the employer/employee parking situation downtown...

Not all. My company does not. They don't at the headquarters in Chicago either but coworkers at the cosmopolitan offices have more multimodal options at their disposal and those in the rural and suburban offices can park for free. So those in the Jax office are just screwed.

At least in JAX you can bike in to work downtown.  Try biking into the Loop from any direction except maybe north and you'll get mugged.  And except for North you wouldn't want to live within biking distance of the Loop.   And biking isn't practical 5-6 months of the year.

Count your blessings that you're able to live in a city like Jacksonville.  No, you don't have the commuter trains nor the El.  But even with the worst of JAX rush hour a 15 mile commute takes 30-45 minutes.  Do that 15 miles in Chicago and you're paying 5 times as much of the same house and spending an hour each way commuting.
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: thelakelander on September 17, 2020, 05:41:28 PM
You can't bike to work to downtown Jax safely unless you live in an adjacent neighborhood. The majority of downtown workers don't live near downtown. Years ago, my firm used to be located on the Southbank. When management started considering relocating the office, they asked for worker preferences. At that point (around 2012 or so), the majority of staff wanted to be closer to the Southside and Beach because that's where the lion's share of people commuted from. Out of 30 workers, we only had one who commuted from the beach to downtown to work via the bus. He later quit and relocated to another city.
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 17, 2020, 06:05:31 PM
Don't companies that employ people downtown subsidize their employees parking?  Vystar moved downtown bringing employees who never paid for parking before into a situation where I assume they now have to pay.  That seems like a heavy expense for the average employee... perhaps someone could explain the employer/employee parking situation downtown...

This is a result of a perversion of our income tax laws.  If you work in an area where paid parking is the norm, the IRS requires the employees to pay too or for the employer to tax them on the value of free or heavily subsidized parking or, alternatively, to be denied a tax deduction for its employee subsidy.  It's silly, as there is no such thing as a "free" parking space.  It cost something to build it no matter where it is.  This tax policy just further frustrates urban core development by raising the costs.
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: bl8jaxnative on September 18, 2020, 04:20:43 PM
You can't bike to work to downtown Jax safely unless you live in an adjacent neighborhood.

We need to get you out a bike.  You sound unreasonably scared of being on the road.
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: thelakelander on September 18, 2020, 04:36:35 PM
I use my bikes quite often. Just not in environments where I'm being asked to risk my life by trusting our drivers to pay attention.
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: bl8jaxnative on September 21, 2020, 11:00:47 AM
Never had a problem.   To each their own, eh?
Title: Re: Monthly parkers in downtown Jax garages could see a hike in rates
Post by: thelakelander on September 21, 2020, 11:43:32 AM
^No, it's not a to each his own. We have crash data that we use in the field to verify issues that need improvement. There's a definite problem and it's just not Jax. With that said, we're working on it.