The Jaxson

Community => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure => Topic started by: Ken_FSU on August 06, 2020, 10:18:27 AM

Title: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: Ken_FSU on August 06, 2020, 10:18:27 AM
What an odd story.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2020/08/05/landings-ex-owner-wants-to-rename-beach-boulevard/

Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: bl8jaxnative on August 06, 2020, 10:44:10 AM
ya..... not sure what else to say on that.  Democracy at work?
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: thelakelander on August 06, 2020, 11:06:02 AM
Lol is this a joke?
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 06, 2020, 11:14:27 AM
Lol is this a joke?
Maybe not intentionally, but it certainly comes across as one.
Point cribbed from a Facebook comment: How many businesses are along Beach Boulevard's 15 miles? How many other businesses use Beach Boulevard in their print material (e.g., "Located just south of Beach Boulevard")?  Who is going to cover the costs of all these businesses changing all of their print material to reflect the new (stupid) name?
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: MusicMan on August 06, 2020, 11:48:19 AM
How many is "enough signatures?"
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: ProjectMaximus on August 06, 2020, 12:04:44 PM
Quote
The weeks-old petition proposes to rename the road John the Baptist Boulevard after the preacher and religious figure revered by followers of the Christian and Islamic faiths.

Quote
We wanted a road, a major road that wasn’t named after somebody already that led to a body of water,” said Arwood, president of Arwood Site Services. “There was no other road that we felt was better than Beach Boulevard.”

Can't they just use the current JTB Blvd? We can all humor them and pretend that's what it stands for. Too bad Jay Turner Butler didn't own any slaves.
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 06, 2020, 03:08:29 PM
Just read the dozens or more replies on News4Jax site with this article.  Not one single comment supporting it.  Unanimous, that it is just dumb and outrageous.

No need to repost some of the more humerous comments here but to summarize the overall themes:  expensive, separation of church and state, historic, JTB confusion, find something else more important to worry about, example of rich and powerful throwing their weight around, offensive to non-Christians, can't be serious, dumb and dumber, promoting self interests, unnecessary, Beach Blvd. is already a good, appropriate and non-controversial name, etc. ...

Sleiman really should have known better than to put this forward.  He is never going to live it down  ;D.
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: Captain Zissou on August 06, 2020, 03:10:41 PM
Can't they just use the current JTB Blvd? We can all humor them and pretend that's what it stands for. Too bad Jay Turner Butler didn't own any slaves.

GENIUS!
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 06, 2020, 03:37:03 PM
FYI, Beach Blvd. has two other names already:  US 90 and State Road 212.  Wonder if the Feds would also have to approve a name change?

Anyway, Beach Blvd. is about 15 miles long and was originally an extension of Hogan Road (yes, the same Hogan as in downtown, that originally extended to the Southbank and beyond to the remnant Hogan Road off of present day Beach Blvd.!) and was built over the rail bed that ran to the beaches.  It was dedicated in 1949.  My grandmother always called it the "New Beach Road" and Atlantic Blvd., which predates Beach Blvd., the "Old Beach Road" (hence "Beach Road Chicken Dinners" on Atlantic Blvd.).

From Wikipedia:

Quote
What is now called Beach Boulevard is actually an extension that was added to the original, post-Civil War road called Hogan Road, which stretched from the South bank of the St Johns River downtown, and led Southeast across the bridge over Little Pottsburg Creek and moved onward toward St Augustine. Hogan Road was named after the Hogan Family that were the first white settlers in Duval County. Hogan Road had two sections, the Northbank section moving north from the north bank of the St Johns River downtown, and the Southbank section moving south from the south bank of the St Johns River downtown. In the late 1930s, a new road called Beach Boulevard was built from the beaches toward Downtown Jacksonville until it intersected with the Southbank section of Hogan Road just west of what is now called Parental Home Road. The Southbank section of Hogan Road between Parental Home Road and the South bank of the St Johns River downtown was renamed Beach Boulevard and added to the new section, thus allowing the new Beach Boulevard to exist under one name from the South bank of the St Johns River, all the way out to the Atlantic Ocean. Other changes were made in the 1950s, when Interstate I-95 bisected the new Beach Blvd just south of the riverbank. All that is left of the original Hogan Road is the Northbank section downtown, and a small piece of the original Southbank section that stretches from just West of Parental Home Road South across the Little Pottsburg Creek, and ends at the intersection of Southside Boulevard.[citation needed]

Prior to the 1945 renumbering, it was State Road 376, added to the state road system by the Florida Legislature in 1937. The road was built on the right-of-way of the Florida East Coast Railway Mayport Branch (Jacksonville and Atlantic Railroad) to relieve traffic on the parallel Atlantic Boulevard (pre-1945 State Road 140, now State Road 10).[4] Construction began before World War II but was suspended between fall 1941 and 1945. After the renumbering, it was reassigned to SR 212, and dedicated December 17, 1949, along with the B.B. McCormick Bridge over the Intracoastal Waterway.[5]
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 06, 2020, 06:51:16 PM
FYI, Beach Blvd. has two other names already:  US 90 and State Road 212.  Wonder if the Feds would also have to approve a name change?


FDOT typically takes a "hands-off" approach to local governments changing the names of roads. In this case, it would still be "US 90 / SR 212" to FDOT.  There is a slim chance that FDOT might want some local help on the cost of changing the hundreds of street signs at every intersection along the 15 miles, and the big exit signs on I-295, and on Atlantic Blvd. where Beach splits off.

Hopeful the Powers That Be in the City realize this is a yugely stupid idea, and file it under "Not a Chance in Hell."
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 06, 2020, 07:51:58 PM
Not surprisingly, there is a City Ordinance on Renaming of Public Streets:
https://library.municode.com/fl/jacksonville/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITXXIPUWOUT_CH745ADSTNARE_PT1GEPR_S745.105PUSTNACH

A few key points:
Quote
(b)  A proposed street name change may be initiated by the City or through a street renaming application filed with the Planning and Development Department. A street renaming at the request of a citizen or citizens group requires agreement from at least 75 percent of the owners of property whose property has an address assigned to the street name that is proposed to be changed.
(c)  The Planning and Development Department shall send two written notifications to affected property owners, which shall request the affected property owners to indicate their written consent or objection to the proposed street name change. (If they don’t respond within 60 days of the City's first written notification, that shall be deemed as acceptance of the proposed street name change.)

The words in (parentheses) are my paraphrase to shorten the citation

So, if the property owner doesn't reply, they will count toward the 75% "approvals" needed.
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 06, 2020, 08:02:20 PM
Not surprisingly, there is a City Ordinance on Renaming of Public Streets:
https://library.municode.com/fl/jacksonville/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITXXIPUWOUT_CH745ADSTNARE_PT1GEPR_S745.105PUSTNACH
Part 2

Has to have review by the 911 Emergency Addressing Advisory Committee (who knew we had one?), and the Historic Preservation Commission, which must look at:
Quote

(1)  The origin of the street name;
(2)  Any historical significance of the existing street name;
(3)  Whether there are any historical structures or landmarks on the subject street;
(4)  Whether the existing street name is part of a common theme of street names throughout the community where such street is located;
(5)  The age of the street name; and
(6)  Whether the street name is a duplicate street name.

The next one gets close "JOHN THE BAPTIST BLVD" is 22 characters (counting spaces)
Quote
A proposed street name shall not exceed 30 characters in length, including directional and street type information, and shall not include special characters, hyphenation or abbreviations.

Also, there must be a Public Hearing in the appropriate Council committee, then another before the full Council.
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 06, 2020, 08:04:50 PM
Part 3
This might be a problem
Quote
Re-naming Street Names In Honor of Prominent Individuals. Streets may only be renamed after a person if:
(1)  The person has achieved prominence as a result of his or her significant, positive contribution to the United States of America, Florida and/or the local community;
(2)  The person has been deceased for at least five years;
(3)  The person has resided in the community within five miles of the street name change for at least ten years;
(4)  Waiver of any provision of this Section shall require a vote of two-thirds of all Council Members;

1 - tenuous, may need a waiver of this one
2 - certainly
3 - definitely need a waiver for this one
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: Jagsdrew on August 07, 2020, 10:27:17 AM
Can't wait for this Radio/TV/Media promotion to hit the airwaves:

"Come visit Mascara's Gentleman's Club located on John the Baptist Boulevard!"
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: Bill Hoff on August 07, 2020, 02:01:45 PM
Part 3
This might be a problem
Quote
Re-naming Street Names In Honor of Prominent Individuals. Streets may only be renamed after a person if:
(1)  The person has achieved prominence as a result of his or her significant, positive contribution to the United States of America, Florida and/or the local community;
(2)  The person has been deceased for at least five years;
(3)  The person has resided in the community within five miles of the street name change for at least ten years;
(4)  Waiver of any provision of this Section shall require a vote of two-thirds of all Council Members;

1 - tenuous, may need a waiver of this one
2 - certainly
3 - definitely need a waiver for this one

All those are mere suggestions, silly.

Last year, Councilman Gaffney carried legislation to rename part of West 1st Street in Springfield to "Reverend Henry T Rhim Boulevard", a local (living) pastor who has a church on that stretch. It was a chose-your-battle scenario for SPAR, and it was technically just outside the Historic District, so it wasn't objected to and passed with ease.

In 2013, Gaffney attempted to change ALL of West 1st Street in Springfield to honor the same pastor, but that was shot down by HPC/SPAR because it was in the Historic District.
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 07, 2020, 02:41:23 PM
As someone once said, with 13 votes, the Council can do anything.   :D
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 07, 2020, 02:47:48 PM
As someone once said, with 13 votes, the Council can do anything.   :D

Maybe, but they will be opening Pandora's box.  How about naming my street after me!

Think about the value of real estate on Beach Blvd.  Watch it go down as what business would want that long winded, religiously-oriented address?  Not very business friendly.
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: Steve on August 07, 2020, 03:21:37 PM
Part 3
This might be a problem
Quote
Re-naming Street Names In Honor of Prominent Individuals. Streets may only be renamed after a person if:
(1)  The person has achieved prominence as a result of his or her significant, positive contribution to the United States of America, Florida and/or the local community;
(2)  The person has been deceased for at least five years;
(3)  The person has resided in the community within five miles of the street name change for at least ten years;
(4)  Waiver of any provision of this Section shall require a vote of two-thirds of all Council Members;

1 - tenuous, may need a waiver of this one
2 - certainly
3 - definitely need a waiver for this one

All those are mere suggestions, silly.

Last year, Councilman Gaffney carried legislation to rename part of West 1st Street in Springfield to "Reverend Henry T Rhim Boulevard", a local (living) pastor who has a church on that stretch. It was a chose-your-battle scenario for SPAR, and it was technically just outside the Historic District, so it wasn't objected to and passed with ease.

In 2013, Gaffney attempted to change ALL of West 1st Street in Springfield to honor the same pastor, but that was shot down by HPC/SPAR because it was in the Historic District.

COJ controls 1st Street. FDOT Controls Beach Blvd. Much different group of players.
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 07, 2020, 04:06:18 PM
FDOT does not usually get involved in what local governments call roads.  To FDOT it will be State Road 212 and US 90.  FDOT probably won't even ask the City to help pay the cost of changing all the street name signs (but should).
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: bl8jaxnative on August 08, 2020, 12:11:53 PM


Think about the value of real estate on Beach Blvd.  Watch it go down as what business would want that long winded, religiously-oriented address?  Not very business friendly.

Interesting.  I hadn't realized that much of property value was drizen by the street name.
Title: Re: Toney Sleiman Pushing to Rename Beach Boulevard
Post by: marcuscnelson on August 08, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
This is just… bizarre.