The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: Charles Hunter on September 08, 2019, 02:52:32 PM

Title: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: Charles Hunter on September 08, 2019, 02:52:32 PM
From the Daily Record
Quote
First Baptist Church Jacksonville is downsizing its 10-block Downtown presence.

Senior Pastor Heath Lambert said Sunday the church will move its ministry into one city block and reduce its real estate holdings.

Church leaders proposed a $30 million plan to move its ministry into a 182,000-square-foot facility bounded by Church, Hogan, Laura and Ashley streets.

...

FBS opened its 20,919-square-foot First Baptist Church South Campus this year as Jacksonville's population center continues to move south. The construction cost was almost $5.8 million.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/first-baptist-church-to-downsize-its-downtown-campus
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: Kiva on September 08, 2019, 03:03:17 PM
Wow! That could eventually open up a lot of downtown for redevelopment.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: thelakelander on September 08, 2019, 03:21:48 PM
Our instagram users are providing their thoughts for redevelopment: https://www.instagram.com/p/B2KTbrAh1Pv/

Personally, I've been waiting for this day for a while now. Seems like a huge opportunity for the Northbank and anyone interested in the inclusive and equitable revitalization of the urban core. This could be a win-win for DT Jax and FBC's financial stability.

Personally, I'd love to see FSCJ (or another institution of higher learning) take advantage of some of their parking decks, auditoriums and classroom buildings. In the case of FSCJ, those parking decks could mean that huge surface lot off Laura Street could then become potential infill building sites, strengthening the connection between DT and Springfield.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: marcuscnelson on September 08, 2019, 03:22:40 PM
This is huge!

Assuming a competent municipal government (oh dear…), this could be a massive boon for the city as a whole, given the enormous potential of so much square footage.

Between the spaces that could be transformed into apartments, offices, entertainment venues, and who knows what else (plus already existing parking for all of it), this could dwarf Lot J at a fraction of the cost.

But then again, Lenny Curry is mayor, so we could have 9 new grass lots in 5 years.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: marcuscnelson on September 08, 2019, 03:23:31 PM
If anyone here wins the lottery tomorrow, this could be one hell of a bet to spend it on.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: thelakelander on September 08, 2019, 03:26:10 PM
But then again, Lenny Curry is mayor, so we could have 9 new grass lots in 5 years.

Let Lenny keep his focus on TIAA Bank Field. Things will work out better allowing the market to play out instead of those guys mucking everything up.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: marcuscnelson on September 08, 2019, 03:34:04 PM
Quote
Church leaders proposed a $30 million plan to move its ministry into a 182,000-square-foot facility bounded by Church, Hogan, Laura and Ashley streets.

The church is spending $5 million per year on the maintenance of its more than 1.5 million-square-foot Downtown complex. That is 37% of First Baptist Church’s total operating budget.

Deferred maintenance is even greater, he said.

The church’s total maintenance need is $7 million per year, or 57% of its budget, and the entire 10-block complex has deferred maintenance needs of $37 million.

Good lord, look at the math here. 1.3 million square feet could be up for grabs. I wouldn't be surprised if $200 million (I wonder what else the city would spend that kind of money on…) could buy you an up to date, 9-block multi-use complex with ample parking. Also, I'm pretty surprised that FBC's entire operating budget is less than $15 million. I don't think I've ever been so excited about a development opportunity.

Lake, I think a really cool post would be to examine each building (apart from the block they're keeping) and listing some potential uses, plus the types of businesses and organizations in town who might be interested in buying each of these sites.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: thelakelander on September 08, 2019, 03:37:13 PM
Thanks for the idea! Was planning to get building picks right after the Jags game.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: Kiva on September 08, 2019, 04:39:20 PM
Our instagram users are providing their thoughts for redevelopment: https://www.instagram.com/p/B2KTbrAh1Pv/

Personally, I've been waiting for this day for a while now. Seems like a huge opportunity for the Northbank and anyone interested in the inclusive and equitable revitalization of the urban core. This could be a win-win for DT Jax and FBC's financial stability.

Personally, I'd love to see FSCJ (or another institution of higher learning) take advantage of some of their parking decks, auditoriums and classroom buildings. In the case of FSCJ, those parking decks could mean that huge surface lot off Laura Street could then become potential infill building sites, strengthening the connection between DT and Springfield.
FSCJ just got a new president. I have no idea about his thoughts about downtown revitalization, but it couldn't hurt to approach him with these ideas. If I was new to the city I would be open to it!
https://www.fscj.edu/discover/governance-administration/college-president (https://www.fscj.edu/discover/governance-administration/college-president)
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: thelakelander on September 08, 2019, 05:04:26 PM
^They have a 5-year master plan online but it keeps them north of State & Union:

https://www.fscj.edu/docs/default-source/discover/facilities-board/downtown-campus/board-downtown.pdf?sfvrsn=2

(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/FSCJ-Downtown-Campus-Master-Plan/i-mhFvs8J/0/26c0b03b/L/FSCJ-downtown3-L.jpg)

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/fscjs-master-plan-for-downtown/

I wonder if it would make financial sense for them to acquire FBC existing facilities a block south of State and Union as opposed to building new?

Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: itsfantastic1 on September 08, 2019, 06:48:13 PM
Video from Facebook from the FBC about it.

https://www.facebook.com/FirstBaptistJacksonville/videos/2402073326749028/UzpfSTEwNzQyMzQxMzQ6MTAyMTY0NzU2NTQyNTg1OTM/ (https://www.facebook.com/FirstBaptistJacksonville/videos/2402073326749028/UzpfSTEwNzQyMzQxMzQ6MTAyMTY0NzU2NTQyNTg1OTM/)
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: marcuscnelson on September 08, 2019, 07:07:57 PM
There's a new website about the project:

https://www.fbcjax.com/thestorycontinues

I found this blurb about their "Predicament" interesting:

Quote
LOCATION
First Baptist Church is located in downtown Jacksonville, far away from the thriving areas of growth.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: thelakelander on September 08, 2019, 09:23:47 PM
That proposed main entrance looks tacky. Keep the existing historic 6-story building.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/First-Baptist-Church-Downtown-Jacksonville/i-fHKPVR8/0/ac03ed58/X3/20190908_174507-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: Kerry on September 09, 2019, 07:39:20 AM
I wonder if theyl will be feeding the homeless at their new location as well.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: Bill Hoff on September 09, 2019, 11:26:58 AM
I wonder if theyl will be feeding the homeless at their new location as well.

Hopefully not. There's plenty of food available in Duval for the homeless, especially so Downtown.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: Tacachale on September 09, 2019, 11:35:56 AM
I wonder if theyl will be feeding the homeless at their new location as well.

Pretty sure that FBC's homeless outreach is through the City Rescue Mission.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: Kiva on September 09, 2019, 07:02:00 PM
I wonder if theyl will be feeding the homeless at their new location as well.

Hopefully not. There's plenty of food available in Duval for the homeless, especially so Downtown.
I think he is talking about the new location on the Duval/St. Johns county border. Maybe they can open up a homeless shelter in Nocatee?
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: heights unknown on September 10, 2019, 08:41:03 PM
This is huge!

Assuming a competent municipal government (oh dear…), this could be a massive boon for the city as a whole, given the enormous potential of so much square footage.

Between the spaces that could be transformed into apartments, offices, entertainment venues, and who knows what else (plus already existing parking for all of it), this could dwarf Lot J at a fraction of the cost.

But then again, Lenny Curry is mayor, so we could have 9 new grass lots in 5 years.
LOLOLOLOLOL...break out the lawn chairs!
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: Ivegotasecret on September 14, 2019, 09:53:52 AM
The need to rid itself of all that property is the best example I’ve seen in quite awhile of the chickens coming home to roost. FBC impeded the growth of downtown for years with its opposition to any proposal that included dispensation of alcohol or that might be a Sunday attraction to steal away its donors. Question: When the blocks to be disposed of are no longer used in any way do they lose their charitable exemption for real estate tax purposes?

With the eventual demolition of what is now the JEA building, that part of downtown will be badly in need of some expensive fixing.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: jaxlongtimer on September 14, 2019, 10:14:53 PM
Question: When the blocks to be disposed of are no longer used in any way do they lose their charitable exemption for real estate tax purposes?

My understanding is the real estate is tax exempt if it is owned by the church and used to support the mission of the church, such as for services, education, social, etc.  Even if the church owns it, if it is leased to a for-profit entity and/or used in a "money making" capacity, it would be subject to real estate taxes.  Of course, if they sell it to a for-profit entity, it's put on the tax rolls.  If FSCJ, UNF, JU, UF Shands, Mayo, a non-profit charter school or some other non-profit buys it, it likely will remain non-taxable.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: Captain Zissou on October 17, 2019, 11:41:44 AM
Here comes the city!!! Trying to insert themselves in the sales decision. 

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/boyer-wants-master-planned-redevelopment-for-first-baptist-property-downtown

I love Boyer, but i don't think comments like these are helpful.

Quote
“I know that any request to hold off for a while runs counter to their desire to move forward, so I don’t want to stop them from their plan,” Boyer said. “I want to figure out how we can work together on that and if there’s something that we can do. Maybe we do a RFP (request for proposals) for the master plan. I don’t know what form that might take.”

Quote
“I just don’t want to lose the opportunity, and they may be working on that. I  don’t want to prejudge that they’re parceling it out individually,” Boyer said. “They may be looking for a master developer and a master plan themselves.”

If you don't have something solid to offer them, don't get involved.  Waiting for a master developer will likely slow this WAAAYYY down.  A school would be nice, but that's a ton of property in a CBD that is fairly small.  There may be some blocks that are better than others to group together, but I would hate for this to sit for 10 years because the city is encouraging FBC to wait for Amazon 3.0.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: Steve on October 17, 2019, 12:13:20 PM
Yea, while I like what Boyer wants in concept, in reality I look at how well the City has done on these "Master Planned" things in the past (Shipyards, The District, etc.) and I don't get excited.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: KenFSU on October 17, 2019, 12:14:01 PM
^Totally agree.

Stay out.

Let the free market do its job.

The city can do its part by offering smart incentives, not by adding in more red tape.

Economy's gonna cool sooner than later, city doesn't need to be a bottleneck.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: KenFSU on October 17, 2019, 12:14:49 PM
Yea, while I like what Boyer wants in concept, in reality I look at how well the City has done on these "Master Planned" things in the past (Shipyards, The District, etc.) and I don't get excited.

There might actually be development at the Shipyards by now had the city parceled it out.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: acme54321 on October 17, 2019, 01:00:46 PM
At the end of the day I think the church will probably do whatever fits their goals the best.  They're getting a $30M stop gap loan to cover construction of their new facilities.  Once they are out of the existing buildings I would imagine they will want to divest them as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: thelakelander on October 17, 2019, 01:37:00 PM
In this case, I desire that it be a private deal between private parties and welcome it being piecemealed. We have more than our fair share of master planned development sites still waiting for some development to happen, despite years of flashly renderings and press releases. Market-rate piecemealing can be a more inclusive, equitable and less time-consuming redevelopment process. It also helps the seller move on faster. Instead of master planning specifically for FBC's property, the city should do a general master plan for downtown as a whole and for all the underutilized properties it already has in its possession. No years long RFPs and the like for this one. Let it be.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: thelakelander on October 17, 2019, 01:39:27 PM
Yea, while I like what Boyer wants in concept, in reality I look at how well the City has done on these "Master Planned" things in the past (Shipyards, The District, etc.) and I don't get excited.

There might WOULD actually be development at the Shipyards by now had the city parceled it out.

Fixed it for you.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: jagsonville on December 05, 2019, 06:23:32 PM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/first-baptist-church-hires-cbre-jacksonville-to-market-downtown-property

Good sign, they have enlisted the services of CBRE. The article also mentions that two smaller buildings are under contract. Presumably one is the Florida baptist convention building by JWB. I wonder what the other smaller building under contract is and by whom.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: thelakelander on December 05, 2019, 06:49:42 PM
They don't own the Florida Baptist Convention Building.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: jagsonville on December 05, 2019, 07:08:14 PM
Touché, I wonder who the two smaller buildings are under contract by then.
Title: Re: First Baptist to Downsize Downtown Campus
Post by: thelakelander on December 05, 2019, 07:18:16 PM
Probably the smaller buildings west of Hogan Street. They aren't included in the Daily Record graphic.