The Jaxson

Community => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on February 06, 2007, 12:00:00 AM

Title: Move over billion dollar bus, it's S-Line time!
Post by: Metro Jacksonville on February 06, 2007, 12:00:00 AM
Move over billion dollar bus, it's S-Line time!


The costs for Bus Rapid Transit are spiraling out of control and Metro Jacksonville research has discovered that little to no effort was conducted by hired JTA transporation consultants to evaluate the feasibility of using the city-owned S-Line rail right-of-way as a transit route from Downtown to Gateway Mall, instead of paralleling I-95.

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Title: This feels like it's all about the $$$
Post by: urbanjacksonville on February 06, 2007, 08:54:59 AM
Holy crap. Reading this is like being hit on the head with an obvious stick. How can anyone who reads this think constructing new BRT system is better than utilizing existing resources. I can see how the consultant who came up with the BRT plan reached his conclusion, with a little nudging from the city no doubt.

1. Money, there is massive amount of money involved in building the BRT, no BRT, no lucrative contracts awarded to developers.

2. This may be controversial, but it seems like another attempt to screw, instead of help, northwest jacksonville residents. They are poor, black and "don't know any better but to follow our leaders into transit disaster".

This plan will so obviously help residents of Northwest Jacksonville and is such a great opportunity to develop surrounding areas into dense transit friendly communities, how can city leaders ignore this idea?

Unfortunately I am preaching to the choir. What can I do to promote this plan? How can I help?
Title: How to Help
Post by: thelakelander on February 06, 2007, 09:13:23 AM
The best thing to do right now is get vocal.  Help make the obvious known to the city leaders (especially the council) who will ultimately have to vote on funding this plan.  Also, if you have a chance, visit today's BRT workshop at the Main Library and let JTA's staff know that the community wants them to take a second look at using urban commuter rail as an alternative to the highly expensive plan.

Because, not only is rail cheaper, its also a more progressive form of mass transit that has the power to help re-establish the inner city as a hotspot for investment and economic development, without straining our existing infrastructure network.
Title: How do we get involved?
Post by: Broderick on February 06, 2007, 09:19:08 AM
How do we, the residents, get involved?  I'm so unclear on the local government's obsession with BRT, can someone fill me in on exactly WHY commuter rail has been overlooked?
Title: To
Post by: Broderick on February 06, 2007, 09:23:54 AM
I agree with your second comment.  Let me add to that, that in addition, it seems as though the BRT will not only leave the residents of those north and northwest neighborhoods out of certain promise, but will continue to provide this "disconnect" that exists between the people.  It's a sad thought to have in 2007.
Title: Springfield Art District
Post by: downtownparks on February 06, 2007, 09:37:03 AM
Just an FYI...

I could be wrong, but I think Jay Silliman is in the process of taking possession of a chunk of the old S-line by his building. I understand that PLF has already signed off on it, and its a go as soon as City council votes on it. I don't know the time line, but I know its in the works.
Title: FYI
Post by: Broderick on February 06, 2007, 09:45:33 AM
This may be old news to many of the readers here, but I found an actual survey ...
Title: Jay Silliman
Post by: thelakelander on February 06, 2007, 09:55:09 AM
Yes, but in that particular area, it would be ideal to use the existing Norfolk Southern tracks in that particular area, since it's aready there and not a main line.   The best potential station/stop area in the warehouse district, is the portion of S-Line right-of-way east of Liberty Street, not Silliman's project.
Title: Honest Critique
Post by: Jeff Wood on February 06, 2007, 11:58:43 PM
I'm not sure either of those proposals is necessarily the right one.  I think you have a great opportunity to build a streetcar as a downtown circulator as well as light rail on the arterial streets that could get some amazing TOD and Ridership.  If you look at Austin, they are getting good TOD but it's gonna be aweful ridership for a long time.  I think the quick fixes should be shunned for an investment in real rail transit that will transform your community.  My two cents

Title: Urban Commuter Rail
Post by: thelakelander on February 07, 2007, 12:45:37 AM
The DMU car's technology pretty much means you can have what essentially is a light rail service, type system, at commuter rail prices.   Before writing off urban commuter rail for traditional light rail service, which can be just as expensive or more than bus rapid transit, it would be best to reconsider commuter rail, using the S-Line and the DMU.

Good examples to look at in North America include San Deigo's Sprinter and Ottawa's O-Train, both of which run like light rail, but are nothing more than commuter rail systems using DMU technology.

- San Diego Sprinter:

- Ottawa O-Train:

I'm a fan of light rail, but if there's a way to get implement something that serves in the same capacity and save millions doing it, it should be explored before being eliminated as JTA's consultants did with the DMU car back in 2001.
Title: connectivity?
Post by: den on February 07, 2007, 08:30:06 PM
Are there going to be any kind of stops downtown?  How about connecting points one and nine?  Why would I get on this rail at point nine and ride west around town when I could jump in my car and drive a mile or two directly downtown?
Title: RE: Connectivity
Post by: thelakelander on February 07, 2007, 08:54:03 PM
For any type of mass transit system to be a success, it has to be accessible to areas with a high residential/working population base.  Point 9 is the border between the Springfield Historic District and New Springfield, two of Jacksonville's densest and walkable inner city neighborhoods.  Its also within a block of Swisher International, one of the Northbank's largest employers and within 3 of the Main Street commercial district.  Those who would get on or off at point 9 would most likely be people who live/work in that general area who would like the option of not being forced to drive everytime they go out.

As far as traveling downtown goes, number one on the graphic is the planned Jacksonville Transportation Center, just outside of downtown.  From this multi-model transit hub, you will be able to transfer to the skyway or free downtown trolley loops to access the heart of downtown.  If you wish to transfer to regular city buses, integrated BRT, greyhound and Amtrak, those options will be there as well.

In addition, this graphic is just a comparison between the S-Line right-of-way (green) and BRT's planned North route (red).  Over all, both systems are much more extensive then what's shown in this graphic.  To get a more accurate understanding of the BRT vs. Commuter Rail topic, cut and paste this web address into the address box:

To access the full vision of regionwide commuter rail, stretching into neighborhing counties, cut and paste this web address into the access box:

Title: west jax
Post by: solomon on March 10, 2007, 10:37:20 PM
Have we forgotten about west jax and it's needs for transportation resolutions?
Title: Re: Move over billion dollar bus, it's S-Line time!
Post by: ricker on January 05, 2011, 11:28:46 PM
As is consistently the case: awesome homework MJ!
"hit on the head with the obvious stick"  lol
can we smack some folks around until we secure the future of OUR [public] pier as well?
paralleling 95 has never made a great deal of sense.
one detail planners forgot/neglected was that no one lives on 95!?
you're kidding. lol
I love the way this reads.
Thank you for existing METROJACKSONVILLE!