The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: Steve on May 14, 2019, 01:45:40 PM

Title: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Steve on May 14, 2019, 01:45:40 PM
Quote
A Jacksonville-based developer hopes to continue its investment in the northwest Downtown neighborhood of LaVilla with plans to build 70 townhomes for sale.

Vestcor Companies will ask the Downtown Investment Authority at its board meeting Wednesday to donate eight parcels of vacant city-owned property on West Adams, Johnson, Lee and West Forsyth Streets to build the one- and two-bedroom LaVilla Townhomes.

Plans show two models — a one bedroom, 1½ bath and a garage, and a two-bedroom, 2½ bath with carport.


https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/vestcor-seeks-city-owned-property-in-lavilla-for-70-townhome-project
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: MusicMan on May 14, 2019, 01:59:50 PM
Bring it on.

What are the lots worth, if offered for sale?

Currently assessed for about half a million dollars.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on May 14, 2019, 02:26:27 PM
Question. Would there be great opposition if COJ took all the blighted vacant lots and buildings it owned downtown and offered them from free to qualified developers for immediate redevelopment? This would essentially be a tax incentive without exchanging money and result in these properties going back on the tax rolls. Imagine if City Hall Annex would have been offered up for free. Do we seriously not think that someone would bite?
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Captain Zissou on May 14, 2019, 02:41:01 PM
If the city requires them to spruce up Lift Every Voice and Sing park, I'm all for it.

Way to go Vestcor!  $100k on that space should go a long way.  Hopefully the city or some entity can match to make it great.  I like that developers are testing new projects on downtown.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: JeffreyS on May 14, 2019, 03:56:34 PM
Looks great. I hope the city will move forward with it. Perhaps they should pitch as something Curry's grandchildren can implode one day.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: MusicMan on May 14, 2019, 04:37:03 PM
"Perhaps they should pitch as something Curry's grandchildren can implode one day."

That's good!
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on May 14, 2019, 04:53:30 PM
Looks great. I hope the city will move forward with it. Perhaps they should pitch as something Curry's grandchildren can implode one day.

In 20-30 years, that will be Lot J....
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Kerry on May 14, 2019, 07:03:57 PM
Question. Would there be great opposition if COJ took all the blighted vacant lots and buildings it owned downtown and offered them from free to qualified developers for immediate redevelopment? This would essentially be a tax incentive without exchanging money and result in these properties going back on the tax rolls. Imagine if City Hall Annex would have been offered up for free. Do we seriously not think that someone would bite?

Absolutely the City should do this.  Even the Shipyards land should divided up into smaller pieces and give for free to anyone who starts development within a specific time period (with a substantial penalty and loss of land for not starting).
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: KenFSU on May 14, 2019, 07:37:35 PM
Word on the street is there's a really good chance that Vestcor ultimately develops nearly all of the residential identified in the recent JTA/DIA Lavilla plan.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: RatTownRyan on May 14, 2019, 07:59:06 PM
I understand that nobody else is really stepping up besides Vestcor but it seems like there should be larger buildings on those parcels. If they are getting the lots for free shouldn’t there be 5-8 story buildings on each one of those blocks. You could build 4 Houston street manor style buildings on those blocks and increase your 70 units to 300 units. I always hear y’all say let the market decide what should be built. Well all of the recent “lofts” project are doing well. Keep building the same thing. I would prefer some variation in style but the big boxes seem to work. If you want test the market for these smaller units then do it away on other smaller parcel scattered throughout lavilla.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: acme54321 on May 14, 2019, 08:02:17 PM
They are going to build to sell these townhouses not rent them out.  Not everyone wants to rent an apartment.  I think it's good to see some variation in product.  Having people living there that have a financial stake in the neighborhood is definitely a good thing.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on May 14, 2019, 08:45:51 PM
Word on the street is there's a really good chance that Vestcor ultimately develops nearly all of the residential identified in the recent JTA/DIA Lavilla plan.
It makes sense. The report was tailor made for Vestcor. That was pretty clear when it made the argument that there's no retail market in the area despite all the retail flourishing right on the other side of McCoys Creek. Thus, some sites along corridors that should be planned to include some level of retail frontage (ex. Forsyth Street, Union Street, etc.) won't have any as a part of these particular projects. With all of that said, I'm glad Vestcor sees value in the area. They clearly have the ability to rapidly implement infill housing.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: heights unknown on May 14, 2019, 09:41:25 PM
If all of this comes to fruition, especially in the LaVilla area where I grew up, can we very soon expect gas stations, convenience stores, walgreens, CVS's, and other type retail, storage companies, etc.? I think once we have denseness finally set in, all of this must be built to serve the new residences in that area.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Kerry on May 15, 2019, 09:51:54 AM
The City should do a housing study pretty darn quick so developers know what is in demand because I don't think 1 and 2 bedroom for-sale units are the only thing people want.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Steve on May 15, 2019, 09:57:36 AM
The City should do a housing study pretty darn quick so developers know what is in demand because I don't think 1 and 2 bedroom for-sale units are the only thing people want.

It’s probably not the only thing people want. But if 70 people do then we’re good here.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Bill Hoff on May 15, 2019, 10:57:56 AM
I guess beggars can't be choosers, but boy that design aesthetic is horrible. The Vestcoring of Brooklyn and Lavilla is going to look "meh".
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Steve on May 15, 2019, 11:09:15 AM
I guess beggars can't be choosers, but boy that design aesthetic is horrible. The Vestcoring of Brooklyn and Lavilla is going to look "meh".


I've been trying to not focus on this, but yea.....the aesthetics are underwhelming. You can o good looking townhomes but I'm not sure they did that here.

It must be cheap to do. Color palette aside, drive down Southside Blvd by JTB and you'll definitely see buildings resembling this design style there. It's certainly not just Vestcor that's doing this.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Kerry on May 15, 2019, 12:03:45 PM
They are only going to be affordable for the first people who buy them.  Every subsequent owner will expect market prices.  I wonder if they will come with a residency requirement.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: copperfiend on May 15, 2019, 12:04:53 PM
If the city requires them to spruce up Lift Every Voice and Sing park, I'm all for it.

Way to go Vestcor!  $100k on that space should go a long way.  Hopefully the city or some entity can match to make it great.  I like that developers are testing new projects on downtown.

I had to look up what Lift Every Voice and Sing park was. How have they gotten away with calling that a park?
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on May 15, 2019, 12:47:48 PM
Lol, get used to it. That's your future Jax Landing park.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on May 15, 2019, 12:57:24 PM
I guess beggars can't be choosers, but boy that design aesthetic is horrible. The Vestcoring of Brooklyn and Lavilla is going to look "meh".

These neighborhoods need architectural guidelines. Don't mind the product but it sucks to see historically significant black neighborhoods being erased with architecture that doesn't pay homage to their original sense of place.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: heights unknown on May 15, 2019, 04:20:39 PM
"Lift every voice and sing" park is fine for the Landing I guess; but I feel they should name the park that will replace the Landing, "demolish it and they will come" park.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: jaxnyc79 on May 15, 2019, 08:16:27 PM
Is this Vestcor project made of Tin foil?
Jax is so far behind Charlotte, it’s actually sad but also instructive.
Companies are exiting the suburbs for Charlotte City Center.  In-town parking lots becoming few and far between as vertical infill explodes everywhere.  And Charlotte has no kind of majestic river running through it. 
Not sure Lori is right DIA CEO.  I wish it was someone a bit more “investor-facing.”  Someone who had a network of pools of capital.  Someone who could be a national symbol of Jax’s resolve regarding its downtown.  Perhaps the DIA needs more a figurehead with brand resonance in the national or international investing communities.  The project “numbers” can work fine in Jax, I just don’t think the city is on the investable radars of enough national development companies.  He who attracts the capital attracts the growth.  Jax should do more capital recruitment instead of just developer recruitment.  And this whole design guideline simplification stuff is small-minded nonsense.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on May 15, 2019, 08:49:00 PM
Just pulled up in DT Pensacola. About to take a walk and get some pics. You'll be jealous. This place was dead a decade go. Curry would brag all the way to the White House if he could get a street in DT Jax looking like Pensacola's main drag by the end of his term.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: tufsu1 on May 15, 2019, 10:28:21 PM
Just pulled up in DT Pensacola. About to take a walk and get some pics. You'll be jealous. This place was dead a decade go. Curry would brag all the way to the White House if he could get a street in DT Jax looking like Pensacola's main drag by the end of his term.

no worry of that happening
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on May 16, 2019, 12:28:17 AM
A few shots from a random Wednesday non-event night in DT Pensacola. If they can do this, we can in LaVilla and the Northbank.....

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Pensacola-May-2019/i-jwV4bgs/0/9a4ed703/L/20190515_211448-L.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Pensacola-May-2019/i-JtfLfTZ/0/686d5a2e/L/20190515_211126-L.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Pensacola-May-2019/i-GK58vS5/0/11c36985/L/20190515_211200-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Lostwave on May 16, 2019, 09:13:05 AM
^^ Looks very similar to downtown St. Pete.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Kerry on May 16, 2019, 09:24:41 AM
I just bought the book "The Next American City" by Mick Cornett.  Just reading from excerpt on Amazon I don't see Jax having the political leadership and civic will to do anything different than what we have been doing for the past 50 years, and even if we did, we are 20 years too late.  The next wave of urbanization has already moved down to much smaller cities.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Jomar on May 16, 2019, 09:47:43 AM
I guess beggars can't be choosers, but boy that design aesthetic is horrible. The Vestcoring of Brooklyn and Lavilla is going to look "meh".


I've been trying to not focus on this, but yea.....the aesthetics are underwhelming. You can o good looking townhomes but I'm not sure they did that here.

It must be cheap to do. Color palette aside, drive down Southside Blvd by JTB and you'll definitely see buildings resembling this design style there. It's certainly not just Vestcor that's doing this.

It's not just Vestcor and not just Jacksonville - generic "5 Over 1" style apartments are the ubiquitous aesthetic for new multifamily housing all over the country.  Here are two articles about the factors that have influenced this trend over the last decade.  They're worth reading if for no other reason than the great nicknames - Minecraftsman, Stumpies, Normcore, Blandmarks...

Why America's New Apartment Building All Look the Same
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-02-13/why-america-s-new-apartment-buildings-all-look-the-same

Why Do All New Apartment Buildings Look the Same?
https://www.curbed.com/2018/12/4/18125536/real-estate-modern-apartment-architecture

The Default Style of Pointless Variety
https://www.cnu.org/publicsquare/2018/11/30/default-style-pointless-variety
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Captain Zissou on August 06, 2019, 09:41:34 AM

Quote
A proposal by Vestcor Companies Inc. to develop eight city-owned parcels in LaVilla was scored as the top choice by a Downtown Investment Authority committee.

While I like the Vestcor proposal, I don't think it was the best option.  The scoring system definitely seemed skewed toward Vestcor because they are the larger company with a longer history of multifamily.  55 of the 100 possible points had nothing to do with the proposal itself.
 JWB is new to the urban mixed use game, but their proposal was superior for the neighborhood.  Why is the city so concerned with ROI and track record of the developer when they are giving away the farm on the other side of DT?

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/vestcor-plan-recommended-for-lavilla-townhome-development
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Steve on August 06, 2019, 09:53:15 AM
Yea, I don't know. The three scorers were Oliver Barakat (commercial real estate agent, sits on the DIA board, and does quite a bit of work downtown), Lori Boyer, and Kirk Wendland (who's been in Economic Development since Delaney's admin, maybe longer):

 - Barakat Ranked Johnson Commons the Highest (92 vs. 87 for Vestcor)
 - Boyer's score for Johnson was notably absent from the Article (84 for Vestcor)
 - Wendland Ranked Johnson at 79 and Vestcor at 86.

I'd love to see the scoresheet and understand why Wendland and Barakat viewed Johnson Commons so differently.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: KenFSU on August 06, 2019, 10:12:46 AM
Vestcor:
Offer for land: $0
Density: 88 Townhomes (or 50 Townhomes & 77 apartments, if the market changes)
Retail: 0 sf
Additional investment: $200k ($100k in the park, $100k to Heritage Trail)

Johnson Commons
Offer for land: $100k
Density: 101 Townhomes (with construction commencing immediately)
Retail: 9,500 sf (3,500 to be built immediately)
Additional investment: $485k ($250k in the park, $235 to Heritage Trail)

What am I missing here? Johnson Commons puts an extra $400k on the table over Vestcor, includes more townhomes plus retail in their proposal, incorporates neighborhood history into their design, and offers to begin construction immediately, and they lose the bid to Vestcor, who's already hedging their bets on market changes with an alternate apartment proposal?
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: acme54321 on August 06, 2019, 10:33:56 AM
Yea, I don't know. The three scorers were Oliver Barakat (commercial real estate agent, sits on the DIA board, and does quite a bit of work downtown), Lori Boyer, and Kirk Wendland (who's been in Economic Development since Delaney's admin, maybe longer):

 - Barakat Ranked Johnson Commons the Highest (92 vs. 87 for Vestcor)
 - Boyer's score for Johnson was notably absent from the Article (84 for Vestcor)
 - Wendland Ranked Johnson at 79 and Vestcor at 86.

I'd love to see the scoresheet and understand why Wendland and Barakat viewed Johnson Commons so differently.

Boyer's score would have been 82 on the Johnson Commons proposal.  So really the question is why was the 92 so far off of the other scores.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on August 06, 2019, 10:42:49 AM
It would be interesting to know why these projects were scored in such a manner. Seems like the DIA should be working to find a way for both entities to immediately invest in LaVilla. Lord knows we have a lot of city owned land not being used. Anyone planning to attend tomorrow's meeting?
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: jagsonville on August 06, 2019, 10:55:45 AM
No retail, less money and less density. This makes no sense.  ???
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on August 06, 2019, 11:18:48 AM
The big difference in scoring is Vestcor got a 20 out of 20 from all three on past development experience.  Johnson Commons got an 18 from Barakat, 14 from Boyer and 10 from Wendland. That averages out to a six point overall difference. So more to do with the company and less to do with the merits of the development itself.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Captain Zissou on August 06, 2019, 11:34:42 AM
Yet we're prepared to hand over literally billions to a first time developer....
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Tacachale on August 06, 2019, 11:51:38 AM
Yet we're prepared to hand over literally billions to a first time developer....

RIIIP
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Alexsifakis on August 06, 2019, 08:14:10 PM
Positives for Johnson Common’s Project vs Vestcor’s Project
 
• Johnson Common’s (JC) plan will generate ~$313,000/year in additional taxable REVENUE (not value) compared to Vestcor’s plan
o That is an additional $6,260,000 over a 20 year period. 
o To calculate this (full summary on the last page of this document, highlights below)
▪ Vestcor ROI is 1.49 to city, JC plan is 3.49 to city. 

• JC plan will add ~571 residents to the core, ~271 more than Vestcor’s plan
o JC will provide ~285 bedrooms (about 571 residents, @ 2/bedroom) while Vestcor will provide ~150 bedrooms (about 300 residents)
o JC units are 2 and 3 bedroom – ~2.67 bedroom average – ~285 bedrooms
o Vestcor’s 88 units are 1 and 2 bedroom, ~1.71 bedroom average - ~150 bedrooms

• Density – JC has 100 units in 2.51 acres - ~40/acre
o Vestcor has ~88 units in 3.5 acres – ~25/acre

• JC Plan includes a retail component – both now and in the future – Vestcor plan has NO retail.
o Blacksheep Restaurant Group has agreed to start a new concept in a 3500 sqft two story space, overlooking Lift Ev’ry Voice and Sing Park.  JC has agreed to subsidize this out of its pocket, giving BRG free rent for 5 years in order to incentivize them to come to Lavilla and activate the area. It is critical to the success of the park to have retail in or adjacent to the park.
o This SE corner, Lee and Forsyth, is a very important corner.  According to the Lavilla Development Plan, Forsyth street, adjacent to the JTA facility and the many people it will draw, should have street level retail.  Lee street, going across the bridge into Brooklyn, will be the location of the Lavilla Heritage Trail, a walkable tourist attraction.  Ensuring these sections of those streets are activated with street-level retail is critical to the long term desirability (and therefore financial performance) of the area.
▪ Vestcor’s plan will put townhomes along this stretch, effectively killing any pedestrian street interaction for a generation

• Paying respect and homage to the history of the site
o Lift Every Voice and Sing park was the actual location of James Weldon Johnson’s childhood home.  We recommend building a structure in the same location and footprint as his childhood home
o JC will be covering the entire 3 block area with ~20 “heritage signs”, which will tell the story and history of these three blocks
o JC will be installing multiple pieces of public art, which will tell the story of Lavilla as the epicenter of Jacksonville African American culture in the early 1900’s
o The Vestcor plan does not acknowledge anything about the history of these blocks.

• Experience – In the last 10 years, Vestcor has developed, built, or sold ZERO townhome and single family properties.  Johnson Commons Partners JWB Real Estate Capital and Cornerlot Development have built over 800 properties, developed well over 1000 properties, and sold over 1500 properties.Vestcor did build 1000 condos from 2006-2008.
o Yet, inexplicably, Vestcor was awarded 20/20 points for experience, and Johnson Commons was awarded 14/20 points for experience. JC is behind by 1.33 points.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: jagsonville on August 06, 2019, 08:32:36 PM
Alex, thanks for sharing. Is the DIA meeting tomorrow open to the public? Also, does the public have a chance for input?
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Alexsifakis on August 06, 2019, 08:46:17 PM
Yes, meeting is tomorrow at 2. There is always a public comment session at the meetings.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on August 06, 2019, 09:05:33 PM
Yes, if you can make it, please do.

It would be pretty unfortunate to spend all that time and money doing a LaVilla redevelopment strategy, expressing the importance of the neighborhood's history and heritage, only to reject a proposal that accomplishes this the most by far, due to questionable overly weighted scoring criteria that has nothing to do with the quality of the final product or the public ROI.

It's the little things like this that can hamper the revitalization process of downtown. Forsyth right off the interstate, between the JRTC and Lee Street would be a horrible spot to not secure as a retail location. Higher density should be preferred as well, in addition to activating the proposed JWJ park, Emerald Trail and paying homage to the rich history that has been overlooked and ignored on the other two blocks. Yes, JWJ was important and should be honored but so should John Robert Scott, Sr., John Robert Scott, Jr., Ada Braddock Bracy and the history associated with Houston Street once being the city's notorious red light district. Same goes for the architecture. You can preserve and re-establish a district's special character and sense-of-place through architecture.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/History/Ritz-Museum-Masonic-History-Exhibit/i-3mGNxT7/0/c6242cec/X3/20190323_133539-X3.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/History/Ritz-Museum-Masonic-History-Exhibit/i-sLqVqMm/0/abe87de6/X3/20190323_131931-X3.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/History/Ritz-Museum-Masonic-History-Exhibit/i-VGmCw8W/0/4f648ee3/X3/20190323_131246-X3.jpg)





The Line: Jacksonville's Notorious Red Light District

(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/LaVilla-Red-Light-District-December-2017/i-D5zJSMr/0/bfa4ce62/X3/20171209_075106-X3.jpg)

Full Article: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/the-line-jacksonvilles-notorious-red-light-district/
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: jaxlongtimer on August 06, 2019, 10:47:32 PM
I don't know the answer to this but which developer gave the most to Curry's campaign?  Could that be the score that counts most nowadays?  Just asking!
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on August 06, 2019, 11:08:45 PM
^Lol, that one is easy but there should be room for all of these development groups to get in on the LaVilla pie. After all, the area needs all the infill housing and mixed-use development it can get. Private money appears to be interested. Now is not the time to play winners and losers. Let's get rid of all that property that COJ has been sitting on for +20 years and issue RFPs.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: tufsu1 on August 06, 2019, 11:13:08 PM
Yes, meeting is tomorrow at 2. There is always a public comment session at the meetings.
I suggest making an argument that the raw scores should be converted to ordinal. That takes away any differences in scoring between reviewers. For example, if one reviewer scored the #1 firm with 90 points and the other gave their #1 firm only 70- points, there would be a marked difference. Reality is both were ranked #1.

If Boyer scored the JC proposal higher, then switching the methodology would make the difference. 
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: CityLife on August 07, 2019, 09:23:33 AM
The fact that there is not a qualitative component of the scoring for aesthetics, landscaping, and quality of architecture is mind boggling.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Steve on August 07, 2019, 02:16:23 PM
At the DIA meeting now. Wasn't thrilled about being the first speaker, but let's see how it goes. So far 5 speakers, all in favor of Johnson.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Captain Zissou on August 07, 2019, 03:43:53 PM
What was the result of the meeting?  Did the city decide to scrap the RFP due to a late submission from Iguana?
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on August 07, 2019, 03:49:14 PM
5-2 to Vestcor. The merits of the proposals didn't mean as much to the DIA as their belief that Vestcor is a development partner they're more comfortable with. Hopefully, this situation gets them to open the downtown revitalization door up to new money. That can be done pretty quickly by putting everything they have in DT up for RFP.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on August 07, 2019, 04:07:39 PM
Any sense of whether the Johnson team could be persuaded to propose a similar development for a different parcel in LaVilla if that were up for RFP?
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on August 07, 2019, 04:20:41 PM
I hope so but that's ultimately up to them. As for Vestcor, at least this process led them to slightly increase their density. However, it's unfortunate that the most retail ready block in that area will be used for 100% residential instead.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 07, 2019, 05:17:18 PM
5-2 to Vestcor. The merits of the proposals didn't mean as much to the DIA as their belief that Vestcor is a development partner they're more comfortable with. Hopefully, this situation gets them to open the downtown revitalization door up to new money. That can be done pretty quickly by putting everything they have in DT up for RFP.

I honestly just don't get it....

So why bother with the dog and pony if you've already made your decision?
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Peter Griffin on August 07, 2019, 05:21:17 PM
5-2 to Vestcor. The merits of the proposals didn't mean as much to the DIA as their belief that Vestcor is a development partner they're more comfortable with. Hopefully, this situation gets them to open the downtown revitalization door up to new money. That can be done pretty quickly by putting everything they have in DT up for RFP.

I honestly just don't get it....

So why bother with the dog and pony if you've already made your decision?

Optics, a facade. "We took your concerns into consideration, but ultimately decided to ignore them"
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 07, 2019, 05:31:09 PM
5-2 to Vestcor. The merits of the proposals didn't mean as much to the DIA as their belief that Vestcor is a development partner they're more comfortable with. Hopefully, this situation gets them to open the downtown revitalization door up to new money. That can be done pretty quickly by putting everything they have in DT up for RFP.

I honestly just don't get it....

So why bother with the dog and pony if you've already made your decision?

Optics, a facade. "We took your concerns into consideration, but ultimately decided to ignore them"

To me, the optics are just as bad.  Worse, actually, but I guess that's because I work in the industry.

There's a certain GC in town that routinely sends out RFPs.  Over the years I've gotten roughly 2% of the bids I've submitted and have known for a 100% fact that I've been low on several others.  I don't waste my time anymore. 

This is only going to convince other bidders to 'not waste their time' anymore as these parcels come up in RFPs.  Vestcor doesn't have to worry about competition, and that's how we end up with the bullshit that we end up with. 
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Peter Griffin on August 07, 2019, 05:37:30 PM
Yeah, seems pretty nepotistic. I appreciate what Vestcor is doing, but they don't necessarily deserve a monopoly on Jacksonville midrise housing projects near the urban core.

I guess the age-old rumors of the "good old boys club" system in Jax is true and alive... It's a shame
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 07, 2019, 05:41:54 PM
Yeah, seems pretty nepotistic. I appreciate what Vestcor is doing, but they don't necessarily deserve a monopoly on Jacksonville midrise housing projects near the urban core.

I guess the age-old rumors of the "good old boys club" system in Jax is true and alive... It's a shame

It is.

I guess it's time to move somewhere else....   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: ProjectMaximus on August 07, 2019, 11:38:47 PM
Yeah, seems pretty nepotistic. I appreciate what Vestcor is doing, but they don't necessarily deserve a monopoly on Jacksonville midrise housing projects near the urban core.

I guess the age-old rumors of the "good old boys club" system in Jax is true and alive... It's a shame

It is.

I guess it's time to move somewhere else....   ;D ;D ;D


Mandarin?
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Steve on August 08, 2019, 10:01:14 AM
Daily Record Article on it:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/dia-selects-the-vestcor-companies-proposal-for-lavilla-townhome-project
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on August 08, 2019, 10:21:18 AM
^Ultimately, the scoring criteria boils down to it pretty much being set up for Vestcor to win. The scoring scale was way too high for "experience specifically with bidded projects in downtown" and way to low for return of investment. If a response has the financial resources and experience required to pull off their better proposal, we should accept less primarily due to being comfortable with a known entity. However, that set of values was not properly weighted with the scoring criteria. Moving forward, downtown advocates need to keep a better eye on the little things like this within the way RFPs are written and evaluated.

I hope the Vestcor project does well and they continue to invest in the area. However, the reality is we just gave away three blocks of land for free, for an inferior proposal to LaVilla, downtown and taxpayers because being more comfortable with a known entity. If we're going to practice what we preach in regards to truly densifying and rapidly revitalizing the area, we need to be able to open the economic development door to a larger pool of players and resources. If not, that capital and needed innovation and diversity is going to continue to flow to other areas.

Funny thing is, even though the gift was still given to Vestcor, because of the competition from two additional responses who paid attention to the quietly released RFP, they went back and increased the density and amount of money donated from their initial offer. That says a lot about what downtown's true market may be, what us sheep are led to believe locally and the opportunities we've likely missed in the past.

Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Steve on August 08, 2019, 10:28:29 AM
My impression from being there:

 - Jim Bailey (the chair of the DIA) wasn't there, which at a minimum I believe didn't help the conversation. I would have liked to hear his thoughts
 - Oliver Barakat definitely spoke well. While I haven't agreed with everything he's said during his time on various Downtown Boards I feel like, based on what I heard, he gets it the most.

I think the bottom line is this (and I'm going to assume that the "fix" wasn't in until I get compelling evidence otherwise): Aside from Barakat and Moody, the board wasn't going to go against the committee's decision here unless they believed that the committee made a major mistake in it's evaluation. With that said, I personally believe Kirk Wendland did make a pretty major mistake in favoring Vestcor that significantly over Johnson. Vestcor has plenty of LaVilla experience with apartments. They however do not have that significant of experience in the for sale townhome market, which Johnson common does. I could see an argument to slightly favor Vestcor in experience (to the tune of what Boyer and Barakat did in their scoring), but not nearly that dramatically. This alone would have shifted Johnson to be the winner

Finally, and Barakat acknowledged it: There is CLEARLY interest in developing the surplus City Owned property. They didn't expect anyone to actually compete against Vestcor here, but two people did (one better than the other in my eyes). The DIA needs to proactively reach out to both parties and see how DIA can encourage them to develop other properties downtown.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 08, 2019, 10:45:24 AM
The DIA needs to proactively reach out to both parties and see how DIA can encourage them to develop other properties downtown.

This.

It's obvious there's interest, and striking while the iron's hot is key. 

It's a shame we don't have multiple vacant properties all over the core that need developing....
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on August 08, 2019, 11:01:44 AM
While Wendland's scoring may be questionable, I think "fix" and "set up to win" are two different things. The devil is always in the details. Compelling evidence for set up to win can be found in the scoring criteria:

1. Financial Resources (20 points)
2. Past Development Experience (20 points)
3. Consistency with Northbank Plan (30 points)
4. Relationship to Park (15 points)
5. Return on Investment (15 points)

60 points deal with the merits of the proposed development itself. 40 points deal with the team proposing said development. When it boils down to past development experience, it all depends on interpretation. If perceived as past development experience in downtown, basically that's set up for the dominant player with past projects in downtown to score more points. If that's past development experience with similar types of missing middle housing, it opens the door more to entities that may not have a significant portfolio within downtown Jax itself. It would be interesting to compare the make-up of the scoring criteria with those used in peer cities that are generally accepted as being more successful with past downtown revitalization efforts. Minor tweaks in little things like this, to open the playing field a bit more, can result in big overall economic dividends for downtown down the road. Even if the dominant player wins, the final product is generally improved because of the overall competition.

Finally, and Barakat acknowledged it: There is CLEARLY interest in developing the surplus City Owned property. They didn't expect anyone to actually compete against Vestcor here, but two people did (one better than the other in my eyes). The DIA needs to proactively reach out to both parties and see how DIA can encourage them to develop other properties downtown.

Been saying this since I moved to town. There has always been interest. That's way Riverside, San Marco, Springfield, Murray Hill, etc. attract the interest they do. We just have to be willing to embrace market rate inclusion and more diversified participation within the CBD revitalization game.

Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Steve on August 08, 2019, 11:08:16 AM
The DIA needs to proactively reach out to both parties and see how DIA can encourage them to develop other properties downtown.

This.

It's obvious there's interest, and striking while the iron's hot is key. 

It's a shame we don't have multiple vacant properties all over the core that need developing....

Funny you mentioned this. Todd Froats of the board mentioned that whoever wins needs to get moving because there's a recession coming. Now, that statement isn't (by itself) wrong.

But, it makes you wonder why there is so much city owned property sitting vacant that they aren't actively trying to sell? This parcel in question has been city owned for many, many years.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: vicupstate on August 08, 2019, 12:46:39 PM
As far as Financial Resources, it shoud be more of a pass/fail situation rather than a ranking between contenders.  As long as there is sufficient stability and equity/liquidity to actually complete the project (the 'pass' criteria), it isn't going to matter afterwards if it was built by a $200 million company or a $400 million company. If it doesn't pass, then they aren't even considered on the other points.

Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Steve on August 08, 2019, 12:58:46 PM
As far as Financial Resources, it shoud be more of a pass/fail situation rather than a ranking between contenders.  As long as there is sufficient stability and equity/liquidity to actually complete the project (the 'pass' criteria), it isn't going to matter afterwards if it was built by a $200 million company or a $400 million company. If it doesn't pass, then they aren't even considered on the other points.



Mixed feelings on this. I see your point, but I don’t think it’s completely unreasonable to have a sliding scale since if things go wrong and the economy tanks, you don’t want an Auchter Company-Courthouse situation.

Remember that one?
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 08, 2019, 01:33:22 PM

Mixed feelings on this. I see your point, but I don’t think it’s completely unreasonable to have a sliding scale since if things go wrong and the economy tanks, you don’t want an Auchter Company-Courthouse situation.

Remember that one?

If I remember correctly, though, their finances were just fine until they decided to dip their toes in the multi-family market right before a major housing crash... 

So they would have scored just fine financially, but would have taken a big hit on the 'similar project' side of things. 

To which Sifakis also brings up an excellent point in the article:
Quote
The criteria developed by the DIA calls for past development experience to be “similar in scope” to the proposed development plan.

For the past 10 years, Vestcor’s focus has been in the rental market and it has not developed a for-sale residential product since 2008.

So the review board should have definitely called out Wendland over his score - which ended up being a major difference in awarding the project.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Captain Zissou on August 08, 2019, 01:53:34 PM
If I remember correctly, though, their finances were just fine until they decided to dip their toes in the multi-family market right before a major housing crash... 

So they would have scored just fine financially, but would have taken a big hit on the 'similar project' side of things. 
This is how I remember it as well.  Auchter was doing very well just prior to the crash.  They were building 1661 Riverside, The Strand/Peninsula, the office complex at the beach that now houses Pussers and Ruth's Chris, and some others that I don't recall.  In fact, they were doing so well that they would provide monthly construction updates with photos shot from a helicopter. 
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 08, 2019, 01:58:20 PM
This is how I remember it as well.  Auchter was doing very well just prior to the crash.  They were building 1661 Riverside, The Strand/Peninsula, the office complex at the beach that now houses Pussers and Ruth's Chris, and some others that I don't recall.  In fact, they were doing so well that they would provide monthly construction updates with photos shot from a helicopter.

The Strand was the last one I believe.  Skanska ended up as the GC of the Peninsula as Auchter had just bit the farm right before vertical construction had begun.  Many of their supers signed on with Skanska, so it was kind of a weird working environment.

They were in the middle of construction of that complex that was just recently completed at San Jose/Baymeadows and several other multi-family projects along the coast when the bottom dropped.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: vicupstate on August 08, 2019, 02:45:36 PM
As far as Financial Resources, it shoud be more of a pass/fail situation rather than a ranking between contenders.  As long as there is sufficient stability and equity/liquidity to actually complete the project (the 'pass' criteria), it isn't going to matter afterwards if it was built by a $200 million company or a $400 million company. If it doesn't pass, then they aren't even considered on the other points.



Mixed feelings on this. I see your point, but I don’t think it’s completely unreasonable to have a sliding scale since if things go wrong and the economy tanks, you don’t want an Auchter Company-Courthouse situation.

Remember that one?

I do. But they were a pretty big player were they not? Even the big players can and do tank.  The financials are only a point in time snapshot. The Independent Life/Modis/Wells Fargo building was built by Auchter but what difference does that make now? There will be risk during the construction period regardless. You certainly want to minimize it, but nothing is guranteed.     
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: tufsu1 on August 08, 2019, 09:40:09 PM
5-2 to Vestcor. The merits of the proposals didn't mean as much to the DIA as their belief that Vestcor is a development partner they're more comfortable with. Hopefully, this situation gets them to open the downtown revitalization door up to new money. That can be done pretty quickly by putting everything they have in DT up for RFP.

I honestly just don't get it....

So why bother with the dog and pony if you've already made your decision?

I was part of two selections today - in both cases the selection committee went with the initial rankings from the written proposals - we spent probably $40,000 on the two presentations. Seriously folks, if you don't want serious competition, just go with the initial submittals and save everyone the time and money.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: jaxjags on August 10, 2019, 01:10:32 PM
+10,000
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Ken_FSU on August 21, 2019, 08:38:09 PM
DIA tables unsolicited bid from Blackwater (one of the groups that lost out to Vestcor) for 7 parcels in Lavilla.

Also, Vestcor has agreed to make their townhome project more like Johnson Commons (limited retail facing park, nods to historic architectural styles).

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/blackwater-capital-offers-to-buy-develop-city-owned-property-in-lavilla
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on August 21, 2019, 10:24:41 PM
Nice follow up from Lori Boyer and Vestcor.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Steve on August 21, 2019, 11:44:12 PM
Agreed. I’ll reserve judgement until such time it goes to DDRB but that’s a positive step
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: itsfantastic1 on August 22, 2019, 12:19:07 PM
While I'm completely on board with changes to more closely match the Johnson Commons bid, is this legal? Vestcor won the bid based on the original design and now they can tweak the project to mirror elements of the runner up? While it's a definite win for downtown, how does this not discourage people from bidding? It appears to send the message that if you aren't the preferred company; you'll never be chosen but your design elements can still be used by the winning team. Am I missing something about bidding for contracts?
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: acme54321 on August 22, 2019, 01:26:45 PM
While I'm completely on board with changes to more closely match the Johnson Commons bid, is this legal? Vestcor won the bid based on the original design and now they can tweak the project to mirror elements of the runner up? While it's a definite win for downtown, how does this not discourage people from bidding? It appears to send the message that if you aren't the preferred company; you'll never be chosen but your design elements can still be used by the winning team. Am I missing something about bidding for contracts?

Agree.  How are you going to let new players into the market if the dominant criteria is track record completing projects in the specific area that massively favors one bidder?  Makes no sense.  Competition is a good problem in Lavilla.  I deal with government contracts and we would get protests ALL DAY if we pulled something like that.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Steve on August 22, 2019, 01:59:26 PM
It's completely legal to make minor adjustments. Architectural elements weren't being judged, and unless they change the entire development to be 100% retail, if the development is still largely residential that would be in line.

The law says the COJ/DIA doesn't formally have to even respond to unsolicited bids. The developed a criteria which I didn't agree with, but they had one. The thing that set Vestcor apart was their experience. That doesn't change based on taking a few residential units out and adding retail.

Again, I still think Johnson was the better bid, but I see Vestcor taking aspects of Johnson's bid and applying it as a positive. It's not like Johnson split the atom with the concept of a mixed use building or non-crappy aesthetics.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Captain Zissou on August 22, 2019, 02:06:57 PM
While I'm completely on board with changes to more closely match the Johnson Commons bid, is this legal? Vestcor won the bid based on the original design and now they can tweak the project to mirror elements of the runner up? While it's a definite win for downtown, how does this not discourage people from bidding? It appears to send the message that if you aren't the preferred company; you'll never be chosen but your design elements can still be used by the winning team. Am I missing something about bidding for contracts?
This definitely struck me as odd and seems like favoritism.  I hope the city keeps JWB and Corner Lot on a short list for future projects.  They had the best design and most likely would have had no issues financing and executing this development.  Instead of holding the hand of the experienced developer and guiding their design, lets help the newcomers to get projects done so that they can develop a relationship with the city.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 22, 2019, 02:33:54 PM
It's completely legal to make minor adjustments. Architectural elements weren't being judged, and unless they change the entire development to be 100% retail, if the development is still largely residential that would be in line.

The law says the COJ/DIA doesn't formally have to even respond to unsolicited bids. The developed a criteria which I didn't agree with, but they had one. The thing that set Vestcor apart was their experience. That doesn't change based on taking a few residential units out and adding retail.

Again, I still think Johnson was the better bid, but I see Vestcor taking aspects of Johnson's bid and applying it as a positive. It's not like Johnson split the atom with the concept of a mixed use building or non-crappy aesthetics.

Might be legal, but sure seems shady.
What percentage of the selection score was "experience"?  When I was on selection teams at government agencies, I always pushed to have "experience" as a low proportion of the total score.

To your point about "unsolicited bids" - I thought the initial Vestcor proposal was unsolicited, and in response, the DIA put out an invitation for bids, resulting in the Vestcor, JWB, and Corner Lot proposals.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Steve on August 22, 2019, 04:09:58 PM
Experience category was significant enough to tip the scales to Vestcor. It was 20% of the overall. Silly, but in their defense they disclosed the scoring PRIOR to the submissions from everyone. Johnson has the better proposal based on the rankings and total ROI to the COJ.

Your recollection is correct on how that process went down.

Again, I think that if we lock down these types of RFPs so they can’t make a (potentially positive) change to their development, then that’s sort of going against the roles of these companies.

Consider this: imagine if all of these respondents had large parking garages, but the winner didn’t have retail on the ground floor. They then went back and added it before the broke ground. Is that wrong?
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on August 22, 2019, 04:31:10 PM
What percentage of the selection score was "experience"?  When I was on selection teams at government agencies, I always pushed to have "experience" as a low proportion of the total score.

1. Financial Resources (20 points)
2. Past Development Experience (20 points)
3. Consistency with Northbank Plan (30 points)
4. Relationship to Park (15 points)
5. Return on Investment (15 points)
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Captain Zissou on August 23, 2019, 09:39:11 AM
Consider this: imagine if all of these respondents had large parking garages, but the winner didn’t have retail on the ground floor. They then went back and added it before the broke ground. Is that wrong?

I don't think that's quite the same.  I'd say it's more like what if.... I don't know somebody we'll call Shad... entered an RFP against somebody we'll call..... how about Ennis.  Shad's proposal is garbage, but he has a lot of money and close ties with the mayor.  Ennis is a genius and his development is exactly what downtown needs, but this would be his biggest project to date and he's actually hated by the mayor.  So Shad wins the RFP because of who he is, even with his garbage proposal, but then the city helps guide him to a better design after the fact.  The city ignores the design merits to steer the proposal toward someone they're buddies with and then uses cues from the losing competition to improve the design.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: MusicMan on August 24, 2019, 10:38:48 AM
"The city ignores the design merits to steer the proposal toward someone they're buddies with and then uses cues from the losing competition to improve the design."

A lot of that happening in Jax............. In related news, Peter Rummell has accidentally locked himself inside a bathroom at his San Marco riverfront mansion.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Steve on August 24, 2019, 01:13:31 PM
Consider this: imagine if all of these respondents had large parking garages, but the winner didn’t have retail on the ground floor. They then went back and added it before the broke ground. Is that wrong?

I don't think that's quite the same.  I'd say it's more like what if.... I don't know somebody we'll call Shad... entered an RFP against somebody we'll call..... how about Ennis.  Shad's proposal is garbage, but he has a lot of money and close ties with the mayor.  Ennis is a genius and his development is exactly what downtown needs, but this would be his biggest project to date and he's actually hated by the mayor.  So Shad wins the RFP because of who he is, even with his garbage proposal, but then the city helps guide him to a better design after the fact.  The city ignores the design merits to steer the proposal toward someone they're buddies with and then uses cues from the losing competition to improve the design.

I get your point, and it’s a fair one. However, put that example side for a moment. There has to be some way to enhance a project between the RFP stage and when it goes before DDRB. Bottom line is that the project-unless the retail is in a stupid spot-is better with retail than without.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: jaxjags on August 24, 2019, 05:02:26 PM
5-2 to Vestcor. The merits of the proposals didn't mean as much to the DIA as their belief that Vestcor is a development partner they're more comfortable with. Hopefully, this situation gets them to open the downtown revitalization door up to new money. That can be done pretty quickly by putting everything they have in DT up for RFP.

I honestly just don't get it....

So why bother with the dog and pony if you've already made your decision?

I was part of two selections today - in both cases the selection committee went with the initial rankings from the written proposals - we spent probably $40,000 on the two presentations. Seriously folks, if you don't want serious competition, just go with the initial submittals and save everyone the time and money.


Everything being said brings me back to this. Hopefully DIA can come up with a better unsolicited bid approach.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Steve on August 26, 2019, 07:55:36 AM
5-2 to Vestcor. The merits of the proposals didn't mean as much to the DIA as their belief that Vestcor is a development partner they're more comfortable with. Hopefully, this situation gets them to open the downtown revitalization door up to new money. That can be done pretty quickly by putting everything they have in DT up for RFP.

I honestly just don't get it....

So why bother with the dog and pony if you've already made your decision?

I was part of two selections today - in both cases the selection committee went with the initial rankings from the written proposals - we spent probably $40,000 on the two presentations. Seriously folks, if you don't want serious competition, just go with the initial submittals and save everyone the time and money.


Everything being said brings me back to this. Hopefully DIA can come up with a better unsolicited bid approach.

Supposed to be released in September. Agree with you-they should have had this already.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: thelakelander on September 26, 2019, 09:05:39 AM
Update: Vestcor says no to adding retail...

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-mendenhall-report-no-retail-included-in-vestcors-lavilla-plan
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: itsfantastic1 on September 26, 2019, 09:16:32 AM
Completely off topic, but someone go find the OGC and have him explain to the CEO that "shall" means "may"...  :-X

Quote
Boyer said Vestcor attorneys asked her to replace “shall” in the phrase “peaked roofs shall be added to facades facing Lee Street” with “may.” ... Moore said the language change was not to push away from Vestcor’s commitment to amend the townhome design. The Vestcor president said he “never liked the word ‘shall’ in a legal document.”
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Tacachale on September 26, 2019, 10:34:39 AM
Update: Vestcor says no to adding retail...

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-mendenhall-report-no-retail-included-in-vestcors-lavilla-plan

Well they're the boss.
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: KenFSU on September 26, 2019, 11:30:22 AM
^
(https://i.imgur.com/V9y3EcE.gif)
Title: Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
Post by: Charles Hunter on September 26, 2019, 11:47:22 AM
Update: Vestcor says no to adding retail...

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-mendenhall-report-no-retail-included-in-vestcors-lavilla-plan

It's easier here ...