The Jaxson

Community => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure => Topic started by: Tacachale on January 31, 2019, 09:09:59 AM

Title: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: Tacachale on January 31, 2019, 09:09:59 AM
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Other/WCJT-Changing-Demographics/i-rB8tMK6/0/2021ebea/L/20190124_174616-L.jpg)

Quote
The Jacksonville Transportation Authority (JTA) has banked its future on autonomous and connected vehicles, even going as far as planning to replace the existing Skyway system with smaller, slower moving driverless vehicles. Are you excited or skeptical? Here's a chance for you to express how you feel about this, the future of transit and autonomous/connected vehicles in general.


Read more and take the survey: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/what-do-you-think-about-autonomousconnected-vehicles/
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: Adam White on January 31, 2019, 09:21:26 AM
The survey link didn't work for me earlier - will try again later.

In any event, the whole 'autonomous vehicle' thing seems really gimmicky and impractical to me. They don't hold very many people. travel relatively slowly and run in traffic (I think).

Honestly - a tram or some sort of light rail makes more sense. And barring that, I'd rather take a bus.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: thelakelander on January 31, 2019, 09:37:10 AM
Any thoughts to how one would stick a bicycle on one of these things? Would they even be allowed?
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: thelakelander on January 31, 2019, 10:01:55 AM
Interesting read. In the transportation world myself, I also have a similar concern about leveraging mobility in the effort to build human-scaled communities. We don't talk as much about this opportunity locally as we should:

Quote
Self-Driving Cars Could Be Bad for Walkable Cities

Advocates say self-driving cars will make other road users safer—but at what price?

....But as an urban planner and transportation scholar who, like most people in my field, has paid close attention to the discussion around driverless cars, I have come to understand that autonomous vehicles will not complement modern urban planning goals of building people-centered communities. In fact, I think they’re mutually exclusive: We can have a world of safe, efficient, driverless cars, or we can have a world where people can walk, bike and take transit in high-quality, human-scaled communities.

Full article: https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/10/self-driving-cars-vs-walkable-cities/572149/
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: Tacachale on January 31, 2019, 10:12:15 AM
Any thoughts to how one would stick a bicycle on one of these things? Would they even be allowed?

My wife had the same thought. They are too small to bring bikes into.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: Charles Hunter on January 31, 2019, 10:16:33 AM
Interesting survey.  Some vagueness in some of the questions about future use of AV/CVs - some provided a specific time-frame, and those following did not.  Wasn't sure if I should apply the time-frame (5 years) to the questions without it or not; I decided not to, to let them apply to a longer future.  Also, a bit unhappy about the bad grammar and spelling in the introductory section.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: thelakelander on January 31, 2019, 10:44:04 AM
It came across as vague to me. It didn't provide enough background information of the challenges or issues currently related to the use of AV/CVs nationally or locally for the average person not following this stuff on a regular basis. I'm not even sure it's hitting the right end user demographics. It would be interesting to see the final demographic make-up of survey users vs the demographic make-up of existing transit users and the overall city in general. Thus, from a technical or potential rider's perspective, I won't put too much weight in the results.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: FlaBoy on January 31, 2019, 11:58:36 AM
Autonomous vehicles are coming one way or another.

As for Jacksonville's plan, I think unless they make an exclusive ROW, it will fail miserably.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: thelakelander on January 31, 2019, 12:23:46 PM
Yes, there's really no need for an autonomous vehicle survey locally. The private sector and public policy will eventually address emerging technologies and their integration into everyday society. Locally, we need more emphasis on making sure we're implementing project specifically designed to facilitate the implementation of the community's vision for what it wants to be:

http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/community-planning-division/plans-and-studies/vision-plans

Emerging technologies will certainly be a part of the future, but getting land use policy correct and investing in a transportation network that supports that policy in the most effective and efficient manner should be of utmost importance. To be an influential component of changing the built environment of certain corridors, the need and benefits of exclusive ROW or dedicated lanes should be even be a debate.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: CG7 on January 31, 2019, 01:08:33 PM
I was hoping for a question on exclusive ROW versus sharing the road with other vehicles. That is the biggest issue with the JTA plan, at least to me. I think it could be useful, but only if it has its own lanes.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: thelakelander on January 31, 2019, 02:10:25 PM
Yea, I think a lot of people, especially those that have used transit in urbanized settings or would like to see TOD outside of DT, feel that way. Hopefully, things will eventually go that way. Other than that, there is a huge social equity issue/opportunity. More penetration is needed into neighborhoods where reliable transit related investment could help spur long-time needed equitable access and economic opportunity for residents.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: tufsu1 on January 31, 2019, 04:10:29 PM
I think they are absolutely the greatest invention in the history of transportation...even bigger than the wheel!
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: Sonic101 on January 31, 2019, 04:10:55 PM
JTA is signing Jax up to be a beta tester of unproven technology of unknown reliability and robustness especially in comparison to the system it will replace.

Autonomous tech still has a lot to prove and it's not

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/12/waymos-lame-public-driverless-launch-not-driverless-and-barely-public/ (https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/12/waymos-lame-public-driverless-launch-not-driverless-and-barely-public/)

 happening

https://jalopnik.com/2018-was-a-hard-reality-check-for-autonomous-cars-1831182272 (https://jalopnik.com/2018-was-a-hard-reality-check-for-autonomous-cars-1831182272)

 anytime

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/3/17530232/self-driving-ai-winter-full-autonomy-waymo-tesla-uber (https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/3/17530232/self-driving-ai-winter-full-autonomy-waymo-tesla-uber)

 soon.

https://jalopnik.com/get-real-about-self-driving-cars-1823921109 (https://jalopnik.com/get-real-about-self-driving-cars-1823921109)
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: Tacachale on January 31, 2019, 04:26:27 PM
Even beyond all the obvious faults that JTA doesn't want to address - the lack of dedicated lanes, the lack of reaching into transit-dependent riders live, the capacity, speed, terrible name, etc., there's a real issue of simple time management. AVs - let alone an entire system based on them - are an unknown period of time away from the present. However, the current Skyway trains won't last forever. In addition to the fact that the technology simply isn't here yet, there are legal hurdles to getting the pods on the streets, planning that needs to be done, etc. There's a real possibility - or probability - that the Skyway will crap out years before JTA's AV dreams are realized. What will JTA say then? And what if the various problems mean the system never comes together?
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: thelakelander on January 31, 2019, 05:25:40 PM
They could probably replace the Skyway vehicles with AVs on the existing elevated superstructure without immediately having to expand at-grade. While this won't answer the reliability concerns with technology, it avoids having to immediately deal with the coordination and additional challenges that will come with gaining approval to run on regular streets with mixed traffic. The problem is capacity. As of now, what's available out there isn't close to what the Skyway's capacity is. Assuming the Skyway was extended to TIAA Bank Field, it's already highly questionable if it could handle event crowds over there. So everything still boils back to making sure we get it right with the basic traditional planning principles.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: jaxlongtimer on January 31, 2019, 07:02:47 PM
I took the survey.  In one of the few places it allowed for an opinion, I voiced my concerns that there were far better transit options they should be looking at.  Also, thought it weird that they included destinations like Arlington and Northside points as "Downtown Jacksonville" options.

Interesting thought:  If autonomous and low maintenance electric vehicles drove down the cost of mass transit due to not having expensive humans driving/maintaining (I figure at least half the costs) vehicles such as buses, Disney style monorails, trolleys, etc. would the private sector suddenly be interested in operating mass transit?  What if taxpayers paid the capex and the private sector just performed operations in return for the revenue (much like a taxi or Uber uses our taxpayer roads but keep the fares)?  If so, could JTA and other mass transit agencies become irrelevant at some point?
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: thelakelander on January 31, 2019, 07:19:28 PM
Seriously doubt it. I don't see a world where the private sector moves large volumes of riders being profitable off the farebox alone. They would need to take a page out of Virgin Trains USA's books by owning real estate around stations and developing it as transit oriented development.

I took the survey.  In one of the few places it allowed for an opinion,

Yes, this was pretty noticeable when taking the survey. While I do disagree that the Skyway superstructure should be outright razed, I do believe we shouldn't put ourselves into a box by forcing a select piece of technology down our throat. It just seems we're way too early in the game to eliminate all other options when there's still so many unknowns.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: Charles Hunter on January 31, 2019, 08:51:54 PM
If the AV thing doesn't work out, with the center beam gone, and a running surface installed, the elevated guideway could be used for vehicles WITH drivers, and use the same ramps to get down to street level at the ends.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: Tacachale on January 31, 2019, 09:13:24 PM
If the AV thing doesn't work out, with the center beam gone, and a running surface installed, the elevated guideway could be used for vehicles WITH drivers, and use the same ramps to get down to street level at the ends.

Buses do go faster and carry a lot more people than the pods.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: thelakelander on January 31, 2019, 09:38:47 PM
but they aren't fitting on the Skyway's superstructure.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: tufsu1 on February 01, 2019, 08:55:35 AM
but they aren't fitting on the Skyway's superstructure.

see this is why the Skyway is an outdated boondoggle ;)
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: MusicMan on February 01, 2019, 09:04:28 AM
I love the "idea" of AV supplementing getting around downtown Jacksonville. Not sure how the implementation will go, but I'm glad they are trying it out.

I feel they will find some areas and specific uses for it that will be very popular.

1. Every JTA large bus (40 passengers?) I see is mostly empty.  Same for the Skyway. It's mostly empty. So capacity might seem important at first but if 12 people were on a AV it would be 'packed' compared to the current usage of the Skyway. Correct?
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: thelakelander on February 01, 2019, 09:59:39 AM
There's a lot of wiggle room between comparing a large bus to what is essentially a minivan. To squeeze 12 people on those cars would require packing them like sardines and not allowing bikes on them. If we're looking at minivan numbers, there's a strong argument to get out of that game, and just subsidize Uber and Lyft drivers to serve the downtown area for you. Nevertheless, we're putting the cart before the horse when we can't even answer what type of setting and urban density we're designing for. We can be glad to try something out and be hopeful that they'll find some areas and uses for it that will be very popular but that's a pretty foolish way to plan and implement costly infrastructure for the future.

The Skyway currently averages 5,000 riders a day. I can't find it now, but I read somewhere in the BUILD grant a few weeks back that they're only estimating 1,250 riders a day for the U2C. IMO, we already have a numbers problem and that's with a currently sleepy downtown. Make a system that people can really use and you're really in trouble. Again, I'm not shooting down the technology, because quite honestly, it's not the thing that really matters or what the average transit end user cares most about. I'm just bringing up data collection, operational and technical analysis questions that need to be correctly resolved for a project to be successful for the context its intended to serve.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: Charles Hunter on February 01, 2019, 10:07:06 AM
Am I reading that correctly? That JTA is projecting ridership on the downtown circulator system will DECREASE by 75% from the Skyway to the AVs?  This is progress?
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: thelakelander on February 01, 2019, 10:43:28 AM
I stand corrected. 2,581.....

Quote
Ridership STOPS Model - 1,171
Parking Ridership Gain - 268
Event Ridership - 916
Tourist Ridership - 225

Total Daily Ridership with Events - 2,581

https://www.jtafla.com/media/1715/build-bca-supplementary-documentation-jta-07192018-final.pdf (see page 10)

The project is estimated to cost $62.9 million in capital costs. Annual operating and maintenance costs with the transportation system are expected to cost $123,559 per year above current costs.

Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: Tacachale on February 01, 2019, 11:13:55 AM
I stand corrected. 2,581.....

Quote
Ridership STOPS Model - 1,171
Parking Ridership Gain - 268
Event Ridership - 916
Tourist Ridership - 225

Total Daily Ridership with Events - 2,581

https://www.jtafla.com/media/1715/build-bca-supplementary-documentation-jta-07192018-final.pdf (see page 10)

The project is estimated to cost $62.9 million in capital costs. Annual operating and maintenance costs with the transportation system are expected to cost $123,559 per year above current costs.

Aren’t the Jefferson and Convention Center stations closed down now? That would affect the numbers.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: thelakelander on February 01, 2019, 11:32:14 AM
^That would have nothing to do with these projections. The drop is likely more related to the system being free now verses being charged a fare to ride the AVs.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: Charles Hunter on February 01, 2019, 11:44:09 AM
Have started reading the report.  Another factor in the ridership numbers is that the U2C does not include the Southbank portion of the Skyway.  (At least in what I've read so far.)
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: thelakelander on February 01, 2019, 11:51:46 AM
So is that part shut down or do they anticipate keeping half the Skyway operational as is until another +60 million comes along for the that conversion? Also, where does the U2C come down to grade on Bay from the Jefferson Street Station? Seems like the Hyatt Place project across from the Landing limits the idea of using Hogan and Independent Drive.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: Charles Hunter on February 01, 2019, 01:02:13 PM
OK, I've read the report, and have some observations
From the Executive Summary
Quote
The project will construct an AV, dedicated lane system, connecting Central Station to the Sports/Entertainment Complex approximately a mile and a half away.  Another segment of the system will connect Central Station to Hemming Park Station and Rosa Parks Station.
 
This document is just the Benefit Cost Analysis, perhaps the questions I have (below) are answered in the full BUILD Grant Application.  But, it does not seem to be on the JTA website.

1. The BUILD Grant appears to be only for a portion of the full U2C System, as it does not include the Southbank, or service to Jefferson and Jacksonville Transportation Center (aka Convention Center) Stations.  Although, it is curious these legs are not mentioned at all, but the north leg to Hemming Park and Rosa Parks Stations is mentioned.
2.  It assumes dedicated lanes along Bay Street, between Central Station and the S/E Complex.  The last sketches shown on this site do not appear to show dedicated lanes on Bay Street / Gator Bowl Blvd. between A. P. Randolph and WJCT - actually showing only the same 4 lanes (plus left turn lane / median) there now.  This should affect all of the assumptions in the benefit/cost analysis.
3. The capital cost is shown as $62.9 Million over the 30 year project life.  Be interesting to know what this includes - how much guideway conversion, vehicles for those 2 minute headways, anything toward the dedicated lanes, the ramp from the guideway to ground level, replacement vehicles over the 30 years.
4.  I don't understand the table (ES-2) showing "Summary of Project Costs" with $62.9 Million for capital costs, and $123,559 for operations and maintenance (O&M) costs; for Total Cost of $63.023 Million.  Since the $123K O&M cost is annual, shouldn't the total cost multiply it by 30, and include an inflation factor?
5.  According to Table 1, unless Transportation Cost Savings to users - parking, rideshare, and other costs users avoid by using the U2C - are included in the Benefit Cost calculation, the project returns only 54 cents for every dollar spent.  When Transportation Cost Savings are factored in, the B:C jumps to $2.42 in benefits for every dollar spent.  This calculation does not mention "net" Transportation Costs, reducing savings by the fare to use the U2C. Presumably, fare information is in the full application.
6.  The calculation for Travel Time Savings seems suspect.  The full system length (Rosa Parks to Sports/Enterntainment complex, and Central Station) is shown as 1.9 miles. The Travel Time Savings calculation (Table 6) assumes the average trip length as 1.9 miles. That does not seem reasonable, that all riders would ride the full length of the system.

OK, that's enough for now (except for the several typos/grammatical errors).

ETA - Lake - the BCA Report does not answer those questions, guess we need the full application.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: KenFSU on February 01, 2019, 01:59:21 PM
I've got no issue with Autonomous vehicles, and they're coming in the next 5-10 years regardless. I welcome them, personally. That said, I think it's a giant losing effort for the JTA to deprioritize fixed public transit - something they offer an actual competitive advantage at versus the private market - and instead compete with the private market on automated ride share.

JTA will never have the economies of scale that tomorrow's AV megacorps will have.

Why set yourself up to be in a position ten years from now where Uber or Tesla or Apple or whoever has thousands of private autonomous vehicles on the highways of Jacksonville offering $1 personal rides, and you've got 50 plodding robovans creaking down the streets at 30 mph giving subsidized $4 rides, still operating at a loss, with no guarantees that you're not going to be spending 10 minutes shoulder-to-shoulder with a drug dealer in an otherwise empty clown car (side question: how do prevent said drug dealer from just hopping into the clown car in the absence of turnstiles?).

It's stupid, and a recipe for failure.

As is JTA's entire future city-wide transportation network, minus less than two miles of elevated Skyway track, being designed to operate in mixed traffic and add more congestion to the streets.

This is a long-term transportation solution?

The whole thing to me seems like someone at JTA was starting with a conclusion ("We should incorporte snazzy automated vehicles into our transportation plans!") rather than a fundamental question ("how can transportation make Jacksonville a more vibrant, inclusive community over the next 50 years?").

I also don't love the idea that we've gotten the entire downtown community accustomed to free public transport, including the less fortunate, and we're going to replace it with a system that seems to be catered to the better to-dos. You shouldn't need a smartphone and an online bank account to ride public transport.

Finally, to Bill's point, this thing is nowhere near ready for primetime. Meanwhile, we've got a new Regional Transportation Center opening by next year, and a $100 million BRT-lite system that will route through it. JTA is about to tear out the middle beam between the JRTC and Jefferson Station and turn it into a second test track for AV. What's going to happen next year when all three (potentially four) BRT lines are dropping off at the transportation center, and the only means we have to transport busloads full of people into the core is to have them board experimental clown cars and ride half a mile to a useable station. Doesn't make sense, it's significantly worse than we've currently got with Rosa Parks, and it's going to gimp the JRTC from day one.

And don't even get me started on how fun it's going to be for the entire system to be shut down and downtown transit to come to a screeching halt for a month for an investigation the first time a drunk, mentally disturbed person steps in front of one of the robo vans.

Love the idea of having automated vehicles feeding riders from neighborhoods into a First Coast Flyer and a true fixed Skyway system. It's a good first-mile/last-mile solution. The speed and capacity limitations aren't as much of a handicap in a neighborhood setting.

Hate the idea of the automated vehicles being the system in itself.



Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: jaxlongtimer on February 01, 2019, 06:29:39 PM
Based on how inaccurate these consultant type reports have been in the past, I wouldn't waste my time or dollars acting on them based on their conclusions.  These reports are designed to support forgone conclusions/decisions by the people (JTA) who pay for the reports.  It was reports like this that "supported" building the Skyway to begin with and they were not even close in traffic projections, costs and impacts on the City.

Quote
3. The capital cost is shown as $62.9 Million over the 30 year project life.

Wow.  We are going to lock in this system for another 30 years?  Who really believes this system will stand the test of time?  Are we not learning from our mistake doing the same for the Skyway?  Another "demonstration" project likely to fail and we have to subsidize it for decades regardless?  "Stupid is as stupid does."   
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: bl8jaxnative on February 02, 2019, 03:42:41 PM
Autonomous vehicles are coming one way or another.


That's not true. As of today they don't exist.  Robocars are not a given.

There's a lot of excitement that they could.  But history is full of technologies that "experts" claimed was only 5 years away.  40 years later, those techs are still 5 years later.

Think about it.  We were promised jet packs.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: bl8jaxnative on February 02, 2019, 03:49:59 PM
What's going to happen next year when all three (potentially four) BRT lines are dropping off at the transportation center, and the only means we have to transport busloads full of people into the core is to have them board experimental clown cars and ride half a mile to a useable station. Doesn't make sense, it's significantly worse than we've currently got with Rosa Parks, and it's going to gimp the JRTC from day one.

It makes perfect sense if one recognizes that transit is something people want for some else, just not themselves.


And don't even get me started on how fun it's going to be for the entire system to be shut down and downtown transit to come to a screeching halt for a month for an investigation the first time a drunk, mentally disturbed person steps in front of one of the robo vans.

It won't even take that.  Some bored teenagers roaming downtown will be able to seek out these robo-Jitney just to mess with them.



Love the idea of having automated vehicles feeding riders from neighborhoods into a First Coast Flyer and a true fixed Skyway system. It's a good first-mile/last-mile solution. The speed and capacity limitations aren't as much of a handicap in a neighborhood setting.

Hate the idea of the automated vehicles being the system in itself.

This is the sort of thing that makes it worth popping in around here every now and then.  I wouldn't have thought of it like that at all.   The tech, if it can work, is really about being a small neighborhood calculator.  At least that's how you're seeing it, correct?
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: marcuscnelson on February 02, 2019, 07:15:04 PM
This is the sort of thing that makes it worth popping in around here every now and then.  I wouldn't have thought of it like that at all.   The tech, if it can work, is really about being a small neighborhood calculator.  At least that's how you're seeing it, correct?


I remember someone (heck, maybe it was Ken) talking about that months ago. The U2C vehicles as proposed are an excellent solution to first/last mile, getting people from the curb to the actual transit system, but it doesn't have the capacity or even the general characteristics to serve as the actual transit system.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: thelakelander on February 02, 2019, 08:06:59 PM
^Yeah, that's probably the biggest challenge with the U2C. It's highly risky and questionable to attempt to make these things serve as the actual transit system. On the other hand, AV shuttles as first/last mile options have merit although Lyft and Uber provide that service now.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: KenFSU on February 02, 2019, 09:28:39 PM
On the other hand, AV shuttles as first/last mile options have merit although Lyft and Uber provide that service now.

As does JTA apparently, even though I've yet to encounter one person who uses it, or even knows it exists.

Operates within five zones, and the fare is only 50 cents if you're using the service to transfer to a First Coast Flyer or JTA Bus Stop.

https://www.jtafla.com/schedules/readiride/
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: KenFSU on February 02, 2019, 09:57:16 PM
Quote from: bl8jaxnative
The tech, if it can work, is really about being a small neighborhood calculator.  At least that's how you're seeing it, correct?

Certainly seems more logical to deploy a slower, more flexible, lower capacity solution in neighborhood settings with less predictable routes that can feed into a larger mass transit system, rather than buying 15 highly flexible robovans but essentially having them drive slowly up and down Bay Street in one fixed loop in mixed traffic.

Having a few robovans circulating the beach neighborhoods each morning, or Riverside, or Avondale, or wherever, feeding into the First Coast Flyer or Skyway, or linking the First Coast Flyer to areas it doesn't hit like UNF/Town Center seems like a more logical use of the technology.

I'd love to know who the target rider is for the Skyway clown cars, and what specific problem JTA thinks they can solve with this solution vs. faster, higher capacity, fixed transit in and around downtown.

I really don't even know what the point is in extending the route into the sports complex if the entire system only has the capacity to move maybe 200 people an hour on gamedays, if that. Why even bother if three or four rusty old school buses would be twice as efficient as a street full of sensors and hundreds of drunks fighting with a goofy app trying to hail a clown car (and figure out which one is theirs) just to get back to the Omni or Hyatt a mile down the ride.
Title: Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
Post by: jcjohnpaint on February 03, 2019, 11:49:11 AM
Took the survey and it really seemed to ask about what I think about the technology instead of the system.  I don’t know why it is important what anyone thinks about a technology that will come if we like it or not.  The system they are proposing is where the problem is.  These are just self driving Uber cars.