The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: thelakelander on January 04, 2019, 11:13:19 PM

Title: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on January 04, 2019, 11:13:19 PM
Quote
JEA’s search for the site of a new headquarters building will move forward Tuesday when developers formally submit their proposals in the next step of a selection process that potentially could end with JEA relocating to an area that’s more vulnerable to hurricane-related storm surge flooding.

The criteria used by JEA for selecting a developer does not have any requirements about hurricane evacuation zones, even after large areas of downtown Jacksonville were overrun by storm surge during Hurricane Irma in 2017. JEA is an all-hands-on-deck operation when hurricanes threaten because the utility must restore power as quickly as possible while handling calls from residents.

JEA is inviting proposals from developers to submit their plans for new buildings or renovation of existing buildings on sites throughout the city. JEA says its preference is a location in the downtown area for the building, which would be 200,000 square feet in size for 760 JEA employees.

“This is a transformational opportunity for JEA and the future of the organization as they modernize their headquarters facility,” says the notice from CBRE, the firm hired by JEA to help attract proposals.

Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190104/jea-hunt-for-headquarters-site-is-silent-on-evacuation-risk
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on January 05, 2019, 09:38:26 AM
It is kind a dumb if they move to a location that's more flood prone than where they're at. I think being suspect to flooding was one of the big reasons they were pushing for a new location in the first place.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on January 07, 2019, 07:30:30 AM
Anything for Khan.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on January 07, 2019, 08:05:33 AM
I'm all for Khan moving his Flex-N-Gate corporate headquarters to the Shipyards. That would be a great anchor for that project.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on January 07, 2019, 10:10:44 AM
Lol - awesome idea.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on January 07, 2019, 12:04:19 PM
I'm still placing my odds right at 50/50 for JEA and Lot J.

The complicating factor is the subsidies.

Lot J will likely be financed in part through REV grants.

As a public entity, JEA is largely immune from property taxes, so there wouldn't necessarily be increased property tax value for the city to capture and rebate.

Unless the city opens the piggy bank in some other way, or issues a REV grant inclusive of the office component regardless, which there are no guarantees of, it might actually be more advantageous to Iguana to pass on JEA and find a private, tax-paying business to occupy the space.

We'll see what happens and what terms (if any) are laid out in their proposal.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: vicupstate on January 07, 2019, 01:15:14 PM
^ Isn't one of the options for JEA to lease space for a period of time? If so, the owner of the building would pay property taxes during that period. 
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on January 07, 2019, 01:24:43 PM
^JEA's looking for a shortish-term lease, with a guaranteed option to buy.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: MusicMan on January 07, 2019, 10:36:06 PM
Concerning Lot J:  Is there anywhere else in the USA where a cities major utility has located it's headquarters in the parking lot of a stadium, such as this?  Asking for a friend.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on January 07, 2019, 10:37:31 PM
What is the actual demand for downtown office space?  Khan seems to be running out of potential tenants.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on January 07, 2019, 11:16:39 PM
No we still have a glut of empty office space in existing buildings.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on January 08, 2019, 10:00:25 AM
What is the actual demand for downtown office space?

It's a mixed bag.

Downtown Jax is at 14% vacancy, which is right in the middle among major cities in Florida (Tampa and Orlando hover between 10 and 12%, Miami is at 16% but can charge double our rates), but far from terrible, and well below a ton of major markets who have seen more speculative construction during this economic cycle.

The good news is, that 14% represents a nearly 20-year low for Jacksonville. 2018 saw a 5% decrease in vacancy year-over-year, and the rate should drop even more in 2019 as Vystar and the Times-Union move in.

New construction isn't unheard of at 14% vacancy, and in fact, it's happening in a lot of places.

I've got zero doubt that the Jaguars will be able to fill whatever office space they add at Lot J.

The problem is, whether it be JEA or someone else, there's a really good chance that it will come at the expense of the central business district. Could be an existing company in the downtown core choosing to relocating a mile toward the stadium to be a part of the shiny new development. Might be a suburban company finally interested in moving downtown, but choosing Lot J over another tower in the CBD.

Personally, I'm all for letting the market do its thing. If Khan's Lot J office complex and Bank of America Tower are on equal footing, let the tenants choose where they want to go, and live with the consequences.

My issue is that they're not on equal footing, and the city will likely be offering huge public subsidies for Lot J that will effectively give Cordish a competitive advantage in poaching businesses or prospective businesses from a northbank core that we're spending hundreds of millions of dollars to reinvigorate.

Hopefully the city is paying attention to what happened in St. Louis with Cordish's Ballpark Village. The city paid tens of millions of dollars in subsidies for the office component, with the promise of new jobs on the periphery of downtown. What happened? PricewaterhouseCoopers abandons the BOA office tower in the heart of dowtown St. Louis, moves 400 employees to the edge of downtown at the taxpayer's expense, and now pays 50 cents on the dollar for property taxes as part of the agreement. Cordish & PWC win. Downtown St. Louis loses. The St. Louis taxpayers lose.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Houseboat Mike on January 08, 2019, 10:03:46 AM
I'm still placing my odds right at 50/50 for JEA and Lot J.

The complicating factor is the subsidies.

Lot J will likely be financed in part through REV grants.

As a public entity, JEA is largely immune from property taxes, so there wouldn't necessarily be increased property tax value for the city to capture and rebate.

Unless the city opens the piggy bank in some other way, or issues a REV grant inclusive of the office component regardless, which there are no guarantees of, it might actually be more advantageous to Iguana to pass on JEA and find a private, tax-paying business to occupy the space.

We'll see what happens and what terms (if any) are laid out in their proposal.

I noticed that they have removed all of the office trailers from the site in front of the Courthouse. Isn't that one of the sites they proposed?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on January 08, 2019, 10:23:22 AM
I'm still placing my odds right at 50/50 for JEA and Lot J.

The complicating factor is the subsidies.

Lot J will likely be financed in part through REV grants.

As a public entity, JEA is largely immune from property taxes, so there wouldn't necessarily be increased property tax value for the city to capture and rebate.

Unless the city opens the piggy bank in some other way, or issues a REV grant inclusive of the office component regardless, which there are no guarantees of, it might actually be more advantageous to Iguana to pass on JEA and find a private, tax-paying business to occupy the space.

We'll see what happens and what terms (if any) are laid out in their proposal.

I noticed that they have removed all of the office trailers from the site in front of the Courthouse. Isn't that one of the sites they proposed?

Yep, initial plan was to do a land swap with the city for that parcel.

JEA would have then built their own headquarters near the Courthouse, tried in earnest to sell the old building within a year, and if not, the city would demo the building.

Coincidence or not, right around the time that the Jags announced Lot J, the JEA seemingly abandoned the plan to build their own headquarters, and decided they wanted to lease space from a developer/landlord instead.

Unless someone submits a proposal today that involves that Courthouse property, or unless the JEA rejects all bids and goes back to the original plan, I don't think this space is happening.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: vicupstate on January 08, 2019, 10:57:23 AM
Unless there is a specific tenant driving it, I don't think new office construction is typical in cities' the size of JAX with a vacancy rate of 14%. Also, doesn't JAX have pretty low lease rates throughout DT? That isn't conducive to new construction. 
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on January 08, 2019, 11:26:32 AM
Unless there is a specific tenant driving it, I don't think new office construction is typical in cities' the size of JAX with a vacancy rate of 14%. Also, doesn't JAX have pretty low lease rates throughout DT? That isn't conducive to new construction. 

I'd have to agree. I think we're in a better place - the vacancy rate was much higher in the past even with relatively low lease rates. At least the buildings are coming close to full.

I know on the residential side the goal is actually the low to mid 90% range. They don't want 100% because it's harder to cycle tenants and increase average rent (a Resi Property Manager explained that to me).

In the case of JEA they'd be a pretty decent sized anchor tenant so I could see (if they so desire) them building something with extra space. But, I think JEA may want their own building.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kiva on January 08, 2019, 04:11:49 PM
Six companies submitted proposals. Looks like two are on the Southbank, two downtown, Lot J and the last one did not specify a location. https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2019/01/08/6-companies-submit-bids-for-new-jea-headquarters.html?iana=hpmvp_jac_news_headline (https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2019/01/08/6-companies-submit-bids-for-new-jea-headquarters.html?iana=hpmvp_jac_news_headline)
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: RattlerGator on January 08, 2019, 04:38:37 PM
Typical.

Conducive.

Good grief, vic !!!

Let's just see how everything plays out. Could be very interesting.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on January 08, 2019, 04:53:31 PM
The five locations:

1. Kings Avenue Station, 1201 Kings Ave., proposed by Kimley-Horn.
2. A Cathedral District site occupied by the Salvation Army located between Ashley, Church, Ocean and Main Streets. This was proposed by Energy Innovation Properties.
3.The current JEA headquarters site, which was listed in Ryan Companies bid.
4.The District, proposed by KDC.
5.Lot J, included in Cordish Cos. plan
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Charles Hunter on January 08, 2019, 05:13:08 PM
Interesting that JEA has set up the schedule so the details of the proposals won't be released until after they make their selection.  Certainly pushes the boundaries of the spirit of Government in the Sunshine.
January 8 - Bids Received
"The responses are sealed and cannot be released to the public for 30 days."
January 22 - JEA Regular Board Meeting, announce Short List (number of proposals on short-list not specified)
February 5 - JEA Special Board Meeting, select one firm, begin negotiations, using CBRE - perhaps another way to stay out of the Sunshine, as long as no 2 Board members are at a negotiating session
"As that meeting is 28 days after the bids were received, they still will not be open to the public."
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on January 08, 2019, 05:31:10 PM
Why the secrecy?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on January 08, 2019, 05:35:43 PM
I’m guessing the Energy Innovation proposal is the one associated with Steve Atkins.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on January 08, 2019, 05:59:49 PM
^It is.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on January 08, 2019, 11:38:55 PM
The five locations:

1. Kings Avenue Station, 1201 Kings Ave., proposed by Kimley-Horn.
2. A Cathedral District site occupied by the Salvation Army located between Ashley, Church, Ocean and Main Streets. This was proposed by Energy Innovation Properties.
3.The current JEA headquarters site, which was listed in Ryan Companies bid.
4.The District, proposed by KDC.
5.Lot J, included in Cordish Cos. plan

Plus a sixth bid, which apparently involved space at BOA Tower.

Because of the players involved here, I think this is going to be one of the more fascinating decisions we've seen in recent years.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Charles Hunter on January 09, 2019, 08:33:05 AM
The five locations:

1. Kings Avenue Station, 1201 Kings Ave., proposed by Kimley-Horn.
2. A Cathedral District site occupied by the Salvation Army located between Ashley, Church, Ocean and Main Streets. This was proposed by Energy Innovation Properties.
3.The current JEA headquarters site, which was listed in Ryan Companies bid.
4.The District, proposed by KDC.
5.Lot J, included in Cordish Cos. plan

Plus a sixth bid, which apparently involved space at BOA Tower.

Because of the players involved here, I think this is going to be one of the more fascinating decisions we've seen in recent years.

Shame we won't be able see what they are deciding among, since the proposals will remain secret until after JEA picks one.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: jaxnyc79 on January 09, 2019, 02:34:47 PM
Unless there is a specific tenant driving it, I don't think new office construction is typical in cities' the size of JAX with a vacancy rate of 14%. Also, doesn't JAX have pretty low lease rates throughout DT? That isn't conducive to new construction.

My first instinct is to agree with this.  The question asked what is the demand for downtown office space in Jax.  I don’t think the relatively low 14% vacancy rate tells a full story of demand.  What’s the interest pipeline?  I need evidence that there’s a sizable and sector-diversified pool of commercial occupants expressing an interest in downtown for their futures.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: CityLife on January 09, 2019, 05:26:33 PM
Unless there is a specific tenant driving it, I don't think new office construction is typical in cities' the size of JAX with a vacancy rate of 14%. Also, doesn't JAX have pretty low lease rates throughout DT? That isn't conducive to new construction.

My first instinct is to agree with this.  The question asked what is the demand for downtown office space in Jax.  I don’t think the relatively low 14% vacancy rate tells a full story of demand.  What’s the interest pipeline?  I need evidence that there’s a sizable and sector-diversified pool of commercial occupants expressing an interest in downtown for their futures.

One thing to consider about Khan is that he can self finance anything at Lot J. He's on a completely different playing field from development and private equity firms who have to concern themselves with projecting returns to their boards and who may have trouble financing new construction based on DT Jax's office market. I have a client that is a subsidiary of the largest private equity firm in the world and another client that is a billionaire who develops with his own cash. Despite the private equity group having substantially more money, the cash developer has considerable advantages in a variety of ways.

Khan could easily build spec Class AAA office at Lot J with his own cash and probably not even worry about making a dime back in the next 10 years. Doubt he would do that without an anchor tenant lined up, but he could do it and not blink an eye. Also one thing to consider about the current vacancy rate, is that a lot of companies prefer to build their own facility to suit their needs, rather than fit into an existing space. Khan can offer more to companies looking to relocate to Jax than owners of existing towers in the CBD can.

Point being, I don't know that the current market of office in the CBD is really a barometer for Khan. Definitely interested to see what he's got up his sleeve.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on January 09, 2019, 07:21:41 PM
The only way Khan has enough cash to do anything is if he sells something.  Like most wealthy people, he doesn't have a Scrooge McDuck vault with a diving board.  He might be worth a lot but he isn't liquid.  The Jags alone account for 1/3 of his wealth.  The dude even has to rent our his yacht.

https://www.yachtcharterfleet.com/luxury-charter-yacht-37804/kismet.htm
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on January 09, 2019, 10:43:43 PM
^I agree that Khan can finance anything he wants on his own, but I don't think he will. Khan will definitely throw in cash, maybe a third of the total project cost, but Cordish is ultimately going to be responsible for brokering the deal with the city. If Cordish's history is any indication, I'd expect the project to be largely funded via TIF, possibly guaranteed against the general fund.

For Lot J, I'd love to see something where a portion of the subsidies for the office component are reliant on either net new jobs to Jacksonville, net new jobs to downtown, or net saved jobs (companies that would have left the city otherwise).

Another thing that I find interesting:

CBRE is partnering with the JEA to find a new headquarters for the utility in Jacksonville; Cordish's new office development is considered a front-runner.

CBRE partnered with Cordish last year on the office development at Ballpark Village in St. Louis, and helped relocate PWC from the CBD to the edge of downtown.

Huge company, doubt it means anything, but it is interesting that CBRE is steering the JEA headquarters search while also maintaining a relationship with Cordish.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: jaxnyc79 on January 09, 2019, 11:44:35 PM
Quote
Huge company, doubt it means anything, but it is interesting that CBRE is steering the JEA headquarters search while also maintaining a relationship with Cordish.

The C in CBRE stands for "Conflicted"
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on January 10, 2019, 08:18:50 AM
The only way Khan has enough cash to do anything is if he sells something.  Like most wealthy people, he doesn't have a Scrooge McDuck vault with a diving board.  He might be worth a lot but he isn't liquid.  The Jags alone account for 1/3 of his wealth.  The dude even has to rent our his yacht.

https://www.yachtcharterfleet.com/luxury-charter-yacht-37804/kismet.htm

Not sure you understand Khan’s money. Just because he rents the Kismet II our doesn’t mean he isn’t liquid. This is the guy that bought the Jags for $770 million by writing a check. He didn’t sell anything when he did it.

A few weeks afterwards he sold the Kismet, and the rumor going around was he needed the money after buying the Jags. He laughed when asked in an interview about it. Once the boat sold, he bought the Kismet II.

I’m not going to say he’s a saint and will do anything for Jacksonville, but there’s a reason Forbes said he was the 3rd richest NFL owner. Quite a club to be in the top 3 of. I have no doubt if he needs liquid cash he’ll have it about as fast as I can pull my ATM card out.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: CityLife on January 10, 2019, 09:29:19 AM
The only way Khan has enough cash to do anything is if he sells something.  Like most wealthy people, he doesn't have a Scrooge McDuck vault with a diving board.  He might be worth a lot but he isn't liquid.  The Jags alone account for 1/3 of his wealth.  The dude even has to rent our his yacht.

https://www.yachtcharterfleet.com/luxury-charter-yacht-37804/kismet.htm

Not sure you understand Khan’s money. Just because he rents the Kismet II our doesn’t mean he isn’t liquid. This is the guy that bought the Jags for $770 million by writing a check. He didn’t sell anything when he did it.

A few weeks afterwards he sold the Kismet, and the rumor going around was he needed the money after buying the Jags. He laughed when asked in an interview about it. Once the boat sold, he bought the Kismet II.

I’m not going to say he’s a saint and will do anything for Jacksonville, but there’s a reason Forbes said he was the 3rd richest NFL owner. Quite a club to be in the top 3 of. I have no doubt if he needs liquid cash he’ll have it about as fast as I can pull my ATM card out.

Khan isn't exactly desperate to rent the Kismet out either. He charges $1.2 million per week. I have doubts that he actually even rents it out to anyone. My guess is he uses it as a tool to maintain and build business relationships, and probably as a tax write off. If he lets a business associate or Flex N Gate use it for a week for free, he can probably write off the $1.2 million as a business expense.

The point I was trying to make earlier is that Khan has more than enough cash to self-subsidize a project to make up for existing market deficiencies and he can be patient, which typical development or equity groups cannot do. Ultra-wealthy guys like Khan are far more likely and capable of doing legacy type developments. Will be interesting to see what Khan has up his sleeve and whether or not he is committed to a legacy type project.

Also, I've said it before and will say it again, the changes to the SALT deduction will have huge implications on the business world in the coming years. Everyone has known it is coming, but the financial impacts will not start hitting the pockets of workers in NY, Mass, Illinois, etc until this spring. Illinois has serious long term financial issues coming up related to their pension debt, and now many residents will not be able to write off much of their state and local taxes. Khan will likely have employee retention challenges in Illinois in the coming years. He would be smart to either relocate Flex N Gate HQ or open a large corporate office in Jax. Even if he does not relocate Flex N Gate, he should have a lot of companies from high tax states knocking on his door.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: vicupstate on January 10, 2019, 09:53:36 AM
Quote
For Lot J, I'd love to see something where a portion of the subsidies for the office component are reliant on either net new jobs to Jacksonville, net new jobs to downtown, or net saved jobs (companies that would have left the city otherwise).

I understand the rationale, but this would be far too easy to simply manipulate.  A company that had every intention of moving to JAX, or moving to DT, could easily say the subsidies were the critical component.  No one could prove otherwise. 
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on January 10, 2019, 10:57:57 AM
Quote
For Lot J, I'd love to see something where a portion of the subsidies for the office component are reliant on either net new jobs to Jacksonville, net new jobs to downtown, or net saved jobs (companies that would have left the city otherwise).

I understand the rationale, but this would be far too easy to simply manipulate.  A company that had every intention of moving to JAX, or moving to DT, could easily say the subsidies were the critical component.  No one could prove otherwise. 

For this reason, St. Louis required signed affidavits and I believe actually required companies to be allow full investigation.

But I agree, the opportunity for abuse is definitely there.

Won't pretend to know a thing about Khan's liquidity, but wasn't he trying to buy Wembley for $1 billion in cash just three months ago?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on January 22, 2019, 02:36:04 PM
JEA Narrows Down the Site list to 3:

1. Lot J
2. Redevelop Existing Building/Build on the W Adams Street Lot
3. Kings Avenue

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jea-pares-list-of-new-headquarters-sites-to-three
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: dp8541 on January 22, 2019, 02:55:15 PM
I am not familiar with the Kings Ave site proposal.  Is this on the parking lot across the street from the Bearded Pig?  The address listed on the Daily Record Article lists the address of the two hotels already there (1201 Kings Ave).
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on January 22, 2019, 03:03:10 PM
I am not familiar with the Kings Ave site proposal.  Is this on the parking lot across the street from the Bearded Pig?  The address listed on the Daily Record Article lists the address of the two hotels already there (1201 Kings Ave).

I haven't seen the rendering but that's my understanding. It's a good development site...if it didn't involve taking existing people out of the core.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on January 22, 2019, 03:32:15 PM
So what happens when the new headquarters at Lot J is flooded during the next hurricane or tropical storm? Logically it's pretty stupid to build a utility's headquarters on low lying land. If the decision is Lot J, blowing up the JEA Tower or Kings Avenue tower, I may become a fan of Kings Avenue. At least it's directly connected to the Northbank via the Skyway. No matter what JTA does with that U2C thing, it will still operate on grade separated right of way there.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: CityLife on January 22, 2019, 04:50:47 PM
Good question Lake about flooding and storms. Interestingly, FPL is building a large new campus in Palm Beach Gardens near PGA/95. FPL’s current HQ is wedged between the Intracoastal, Ocean, and Lake Worth Lagoon. Not an ideal location for storm events and potential sea level rise. They are maintaining their current HQ, but I believe plan to slowly move HQ to the new campus. The new campus is designed to withstand 500 year storm events and category 5 Hurricanes.

JEA and Khan can likely build the facility itself to handle any flood events and wind, but whether employees and emergency personnel would even be able to access the site is another question.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: jaxlongtimer on January 22, 2019, 07:12:13 PM
I am not familiar with the Kings Ave site proposal.  Is this on the parking lot across the street from the Bearded Pig?  The address listed on the Daily Record Article lists the address of the two hotels already there (1201 Kings Ave).

FYI, I have it on very good authority that this site is, indeed, the parking lot across from the Bearded Pig and next to the hotels.  I, too, was scratching my head about the possibility of tearing down two large and relatively new hotels and still making the numbers work for this project so I investigated a little further to confirm the answer here :).  Per Property Appraiser, the hotels are about 150,000 square feet, so not much smaller that the 200,000 square feet JEA is desiring.  This adds to the absurdity of tearing down one modern structure to replace it with another of not-much-larger size.

Interesting note, too:  JTA apparently owns all of this property and leases it to Kings Avenue Redevelopment.  They, in turn, are subleasing to the hotel owner about 1/2 of the property and still control the other 1/2 being offered to JEA.  Will be interesting to see if JTA has agreed to sell, rather than lease, the property to get this deal done.

The property does appear to have some unique characteristics such as being adjacent to an already large parking garage, being along side the I-95 overland bridge giving it outstanding visibility (but, not so sure about the traffic noise factor - will require quite a bit of soundproofing) and being connected to the (underutilized) Skyway.  Main downside could be the "San Marco Train" [https://twitter.com/sanmarcotrain?lang=en (https://twitter.com/sanmarcotrain?lang=en) ](and its horns).  Being across from the Bearded Pig might be help clinch the deal though :).
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on January 22, 2019, 08:27:57 PM
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjR1rjs34LgAhVDbK0KHYsqC5MQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jaxdailyrecord.com%2Farticle%2Fbalanky-plans-southbank-tower-with-gondolas-across-st-johns&psig=AOvVaw2TCErDtXnc2VJ1yu6XnsoO&ust=1548293220182750
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on January 22, 2019, 09:52:48 PM
Would love to see whatever scoring matrix they used to shortlist down to three. The Atkins plan could have been transformational for the CBD. Conspiracy theorist says that if the fix is in for Lot J, then it makes sense to cut the strongest competition upfront before the public can get behind it.

Worth watching what happens to the JEA Board between now and a final decision being made. A member stepped down today citing a conflict of interest, and Curry will be appointing the replacement.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Charles Hunter on January 22, 2019, 10:49:29 PM
To the conflict of interest, from the TU, not with the HQ proposals, but because his wife will be on City Council.
Quote
In other news, board member Husein Cumber resigned from the board on Tuesday effective immediately.

In his resignation letter he sent to Mayor Lenny Curry, Cumber said he is stepping down because his wife, LeAnna Cumber, will join the City Council later this year. Although the city elections are on March 19, LeAnna Cumber won her race earlier this month by default, as she was the only candidate who qualified to run.

“After careful thought, my wife’s election to the Jacksonville City Council this month may cause some perceived and/or unintended conflicts,” Cumber wrote.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: marcuscnelson on January 22, 2019, 11:23:44 PM
All I can say is that I'm incredibly disappointed that Atkins' offer was dropped, and that I hope his project can still work out independent of JEA.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: tufsu1 on January 23, 2019, 08:24:07 AM
This may have been the easiest shortlist to predict ever
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on January 23, 2019, 08:51:27 AM
Yes! Sucks for those that put money and time into responding and actually thinking they had a chance at being shortlisted.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Jagsdrew on January 23, 2019, 10:52:41 AM
I just can't get on board with Lot J.

Also, would like to see the renderings for Kings Avenue. I know that Balanky wanted to develop that space but JTA and Balanky were going through litigation of the property and how it is used. Maybe this can be a mixed use of office and residential? Those were his initial intentions of the site.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on January 23, 2019, 11:37:21 AM
If the grading was purely objective, you've got to think that Lot J might have been the very first project cut. JEA wants to start building by early next year, but right now, the entire Cordish development is purely speculative. There's no deal in place with the city. There's not even a basic understanding of whether the property is suitable for development without significant remediation. I wonder how JEA could even select Lot J in early February if the economic development agreement between the city/Cordish/Iguana isn't yet in place (late-spring/early-summer is now the rumor for the deal being signed).

I honestly don't love any of the options. Lot J instantly offsets all the gains the northbank core has made with VyStar, the Times-Union, etc. by moving 800 jobs to the periphary of downtown. Kings Ave Station also moves 800 jobs out of the northbank core, but at least it's closer to the CBD and connected to the Skyway (until the Skyway is replaced with clown cars). And building on that parcel by the Courthouse via land swap virtually guarantees the demolition of the old JEA Tower, unless Atkins redevelops it into multifamily housing, which he's expressed interest in previously.

Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on January 23, 2019, 12:32:14 PM
To save the JEA Tower, there needs to be public outcry and a push for adaptive reuse/RFP to be put out before the implosion party group comes out of the woodworks. That process needs to happen like yesterday. Politicians back off when when there's no public support.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Jagsdrew on January 23, 2019, 01:30:59 PM
You can bet there is soil contamination in Lot J.

Would be nice if Atkins can get the JEA Tower in a land swap deal at bargain rate. Would be a nice win to close out the decade with the potential of residential development there instead of demolition.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Josh on January 23, 2019, 04:05:16 PM
You can bet there is soil contamination in Lot J.

There is, however it was "clean" enough for usage as a parking lot during the development of the current stadium. If/when Lot J is used for anything else, environmental abatement will be necessary.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: heights unknown on January 23, 2019, 06:09:09 PM
JEA Narrows Down the Site list to 3:

1. Lot J
2. Redevelop Existing Building/Build on the W Adams Street Lot
3. Kings Avenue

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jea-pares-list-of-new-headquarters-sites-to-three
Disturbing, purely and intensely disturbing.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: heights unknown on January 23, 2019, 06:10:24 PM
I am not familiar with the Kings Ave site proposal.  Is this on the parking lot across the street from the Bearded Pig?  The address listed on the Daily Record Article lists the address of the two hotels already there (1201 Kings Ave).

I haven't seen the rendering but that's my understanding. It's a good development site...if it didn't involve taking existing people out of the core.
Does that mean demolition of the existing buildings and building a new office tower?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: heights unknown on January 23, 2019, 06:16:33 PM
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjR1rjs34LgAhVDbK0KHYsqC5MQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jaxdailyrecord.com%2Farticle%2Fbalanky-plans-southbank-tower-with-gondolas-across-st-johns&psig=AOvVaw2TCErDtXnc2VJ1yu6XnsoO&ust=1548293220182750
I would be all for this if JEA decided to go this route; ditch the gondola thing, but residential, office, etc. in another tall tower on the Southbank is a super duper thought. My other choice would be the Adams Street Lot, adding a little more building density in that area.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: heights unknown on January 23, 2019, 06:20:26 PM
I just can't get on board with Lot J.

Also, would like to see the renderings for Kings Avenue. I know that Balanky wanted to develop that space but JTA and Balanky were going through litigation of the property and how it is used. Maybe this can be a mixed use of office and residential? Those were his initial intentions of the site.

I am not a fan, and don't like Lot J either. If they can get the Kings Avenue lot going, without the gondola idea, I am a staunch fan of that proposal, i.e., residential, office, etc., in a tower. Otherwise, ditch the gondola idea, and have Balanky and JEA work together to get it done on the southbank; and...please, a nice slender tall and appealing tower.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on January 23, 2019, 06:23:02 PM
I'm not sure any of these sites will result in a tower. Both Lot J and Adams Street concepts in recent months show something around 6 or 7 stories with a garage next to it as opposed to being integrated with it.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: heights unknown on January 23, 2019, 06:56:23 PM
I'm not sure any of these sites will result in a tower. Both Lot J and Adams Street concepts in recent months show something around 6 or 7 stories with a garage next to it as opposed to being integrated with it.
Yes Lake, I noticed that and acknowledge; I can hope and dream I guess. I would be happy if every vacant lot on the Northbank was built with something; too many pot holes in our downtown urban core. Let's hope for something spectacular and tall.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Bill Hoff on January 23, 2019, 07:21:16 PM
Related: Khan is hosting a big fundraiser for Curry. But the site selection process is not affected, I'm sure : )

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/286272-khan-curry-funder



Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: marcuscnelson on January 24, 2019, 10:27:20 AM
Related: Khan is hosting a big fundraiser for Curry. But the site selection process is not affected, I'm sure : )

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/286272-khan-curry-funder (http://floridapolitics.com/archives/286272-khan-curry-funder)


Nothing to see here, folks. Move along please.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on January 24, 2019, 03:13:22 PM
Gotta love plutocracies
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: itsfantastic1 on January 27, 2019, 12:26:42 PM
It appears as if JEA will have some form of presentations on the 3 options at their meeting on Feb. 5, with public comments. I'm sure there will potentially be some things legally withheld until the 7th, but it appears to be in some good faith. Although the cynic in me just thinks it's another chance to parade out three amazing designs that will mysteriously change due to costs associated with the presented design...cough, Lot J, cough...

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2019/01/22/jea-eliminates-3-potential-sites-for-new.html
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on January 27, 2019, 03:15:24 PM
^I have no idea if it would be part of a JEA building, I'm guessing not, but I've heard recently that Lot J could include a large cowork space.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on January 29, 2019, 11:28:31 AM
JEA just announced that they're pushing the decision back to April.

Certainly gives the city a little extra time to finish that economic development agreement for Lot J and Curry to get another board member or two in place.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on January 29, 2019, 11:31:23 AM
So this means all the documents will be made available to the public prior to the decision date?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on January 29, 2019, 11:37:24 AM
So this means all the documents will be made available to the public prior to the decision date?

Good one!

Executive summaries of the design and location only, from the sounds of it.

Nothing about cost, terms, feasibility, etc.

From the Daily Record:

Quote
JEA plans to release an information package about the proposals by Friday on jea.com. That package will not include proprietary information.

According to JEA, the package will include “an excerpt of the original submittal” with an overview of each firm’s team, site location and building solution design and will not include new information for JEA to evaluate.

The JEA email states that “the package will not include financial ability, pricing information or legal terms and conditions.”
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Charles Hunter on January 29, 2019, 01:35:44 PM
Sunshine request?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on January 29, 2019, 09:35:32 PM
JEA just announced that they're pushing the decision back to April.

Certainly gives the city a little extra time to finish that economic development agreement for Lot J and Curry to get another board member or two in place.

Yep.  The City will give millions to Khan to build Lot J, then Khan will lease the building back to the City.  In exchange, Khan bankrolls the Curry re-election campaign.

Is there anybody out there who DOESN'T see this coming? 
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Snaketoz on January 30, 2019, 09:06:58 AM
JEA just announced that they're pushing the decision back to April.

Certainly gives the city a little extra time to finish that economic development agreement for Lot J and Curry to get another board member or two in place.

Yep.  The City will give millions to Khan to build Lot J, then Khan will lease the building back to the City.  In exchange, Khan bankrolls the Curry re-election campaign.

Is there anybody out there who DOESN'T see this coming?
Sadly, many don't see it, and even more don't care.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on February 01, 2019, 02:31:05 PM
(Surface-level) details of the proposals should be dropping shortly.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: UNFurbanist on February 01, 2019, 05:23:03 PM
yeah unfortunately I have no doubt JEA will relocate to Lot J. April is also conveniently the same month the Jags host the "State of the Franchise" event where they have teased the city on the shipyards for 5 years.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on February 01, 2019, 05:58:16 PM
Renders from Dave Cawton at the Daily Record.

https://twitter.com/davidcawton?lang=en

Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on February 01, 2019, 06:05:35 PM
Butttttttttttttttttt, no pressure.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyWwVhHU8AAPhQG.jpg)
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: pierre on February 01, 2019, 06:21:14 PM
yeah unfortunately I have no doubt JEA will relocate to Lot J. April is also conveniently the same month the Jags host the "State of the Franchise" event where they have teased the city on the shipyards for 5 years.

Very convenient
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on February 01, 2019, 06:32:45 PM
The Lot J rendering is pretty underwhelming. Looks like it belongs off JTB. Naturally, I gravitate to the more urban alternatives and sites. I'd rather see Ryan's proposals near the county courthouse but I hate seeing the JEA Tower get razed in order to get replaced by a smaller building. The scale of the Southbank structure isn't bad but I'm not crazy about the architecture.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: CityLife on February 01, 2019, 06:55:41 PM
Is Khan showing anything else at Lot J as part of this proposal or just the JEA building? If Lot J is selected, I would presume it is based solely on being part of the greater redevelopment that Khan and Cordish have floated. If Khan isn’t including other pieces of the redevelopment in his JEA proposal, the City BETTER require certain aspects of the redevelopment to be constructed in sequence with JEA construction or issue some kind of performance bond.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on February 01, 2019, 07:15:48 PM
The renderings and site plans to the Khan stuff changes every few months. Here was Lot J last year:

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/wjct/files/styles/x_large/public/201804/DbKWBvbXcAEMC_J.jpg)

Looking at the latest JEA rendering, one of those towers have been taken out for the JEA box:

(https://www.wokv.com/rf/image_lowres/Pub/p10/WOKV/2019/02/01/Images/lot%20j%20jea%201.JPG)

(https://www.wokv.com/rf/image_md/Pub/p10/WOKV/2019/02/01/Images/lot%20j%20jea%204.JPG)
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on February 01, 2019, 07:18:28 PM
I can't say I love any of the three proposals. The Lot J design would look right at home on Touchton or Baymeadows. Kings Avenue is a little better, but it's on the Southbank, with a highway wrapped around it. And even though the Courthouse location has the best design of the three (in my opinion), none of the options seem to include any street-level retail or public features. Again, I'd love to see why Atkins proposal, which was jammed with mixed use, didn't make the short-list. And if the Courthouse site is chosen, I really hope the city finds a way to somehow activate that greenspace out front. It's a really beautiful space that people treat like hot lava.

Kind of silly to me that after all the flashy renderings and $2.5 billion figures thrown out there, Lamping is touting this as the "centerpiece" of the Jags downtown plans:

(https://snag.gy/iGhyxd.jpg)

Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on February 01, 2019, 07:24:53 PM
I hate seeing the JEA Tower get razed in order to get replaced by a smaller building.

This just makes me sad:

(https://snag.gy/ZBX3i5.jpg)

What a downgrade, especially if the tower is razed for a garage.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on February 01, 2019, 07:46:43 PM
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/JEA-Utility-Headquarters/i-mwXjtrJ/0/6bbcad37/XL/Slide1-XL.jpg)
I kind of like this one. I doubt it's selected but it would at least help economically stimulate redevelopment and reuse of properties like Stanton, the Richmond Hotel, etc. along Broad Street.



(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/JEA-Utility-Headquarters/i-LMxdRqR/0/26445d71/XL/Slide3-XL.jpg)
If this has some limited form of retail at street level, this isn't a bad one either. It fills a dead block with activity and possibly creates additional foot traffic for all the surrounding vacant retail to be leased.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on February 01, 2019, 07:57:43 PM
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/JEA-Utility-Headquarters/i-PVm7J6t/0/c9e29162/XL/Slide4-XL.jpg)
I'm not crazy about the architecture of this one. However, at least it's connected to the Skyway. This along with the proposal at Broad & Church (First Coast Flyer BRT Station) is exactly what we should be doing with major public destinations......locating them at or within walking distance of our high frequency transit stops.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Bill Hoff on February 01, 2019, 08:08:14 PM
Aren't these all just place holder renderings?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on February 01, 2019, 08:27:05 PM
^No, these are the actual designs submitted as part of the RFP.

They're representative of what each developer intends to build.

Doesn't really matter though, I just can't see any way that Lot J doesn't win.

There's just too much conflict of interest going in the Jags favor. On the six-member board making the decision, you've got the CFO/SVP of Jags, who has worked closely with Mark Lamping for years, dating back to the construction of Metlife stadium when both were in New York. Even if she's recusing herself from the vote, it doesn't mean she can't infuence it. And you've got two other members about to appointed by the mayor, right after Shad Khan announced a fundraiser for the mayor's re-election campaign, and right after JEA switched course (again) and extended the deadline on the vote, which conveniently gives the new board members a chance to slip in.

What's patently ridiculous to me though is how poorly JEA fits in with the Jags' vision for Lot J.

If anyone has spent any time at JEA, it's not exactly the work/live/play type of millenial crowd that they're going after to fill the residential component, and frequent the bars on random weeknights, and attend concerts and events at the sports complex.

You'd think that trying to lure someone like Fanatics or an outside tech company would be a better fit.

Here are the full public information packages (hilarious that for Ryan, all we get is a YouTube video, and how limited the public documents are for the other two).

https://www.jea.com/About/Corporate_Headquarters

I'm super curious about who pays for the Lot J parking garage that JEA will need for its nearly 1,000 workers.

Does the city pay for it as parking for sports & entertainment and JEA gets to use it during working hours for a penny on the dollar?

Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on February 01, 2019, 08:34:02 PM
My guess is taxpayers will get double fleeced. The project itself will be heavily subsidized and JEA is a public entity anyway. I also don't think there is a real vision for the Shipyards/Lot J. Every year, it's something else, depending on what blow with the wind. At the end of the day, it will be whatever brings them the most financial gain.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: marcuscnelson on February 01, 2019, 09:02:53 PM
It's honestly incredible that the plan with the largest backing and most likely to win is the least inspiring and most nonsensical (given Ken's comment and Lake's previous statements) design and location of any of these comments.

At least Ryan and Balanky's plans have some kind of flair, vs a gigantic, featureless glass box. This is really supposed to be the anchor point of some kind of grand recreational and fun development? At least the Balanky plan is realistic about the surrounding development being offices. The Ryan Courthouse plans actually look really good, but somehow Shad Kahn has bullied his way into making a utility company the centerpiece of his big plan? Does JEA even want to be right next door to Live? It's completely ridiculous, and honestly disgusting.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: jaxlongtimer on February 01, 2019, 11:12:22 PM
The Southbank proposal has the Skyway, I-95 visibility (probably the highest of the 3 sites remaining with over 125,000+ cars a day going by), an existing parking garage and hotel and lots of higher density housing projects going up within walking distance.  Of the 3 proposals, their architecture is the most daring and memorable.

I would also favor the Courthouse site but wish the architecture was something more interesting than a "box."

I agree with comments about Lot J.  Really taking a square peg and putting it in a round hole.  Shad's vision reminds me of all the grand plans for La Villa/Prime Osborne area that turned out to never be and/or what was built to be nothing like was planned:  a "new and vibrant" urbanized district to serve as a catalyst for rejuvenating downtown.  La Villa is much more connected to the core, includes Skyway stations and is adjacent to I-95 and Brooklyn/Riverside.  If that couldn't fire up developers, what, other than a stadium and Daily's used a few times a year, is going for Lot J?  Yeah, Shad has access to capital but he isn't going to build without getting solid commitments from end users/tenants/occupants.  Would be interesting to benchmark his efforts to the District on the Southbank.  Can Jacksonville absorb both at the same time?  And still unanswered, what pollutants might be under Lot J?  What if JEA picks that site and finds construction is delayed for months to years to clean the site?  And, who pays for that?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Lostwave on February 04, 2019, 09:49:57 AM
The Lot J plan hasn't changed, you just cant see it all in those renderings.  The meeting I went to a couple of weeks ago defined the current plan as dividing lot J into about 4 equal quadrants.  They will have the office building (NW Quadrant, the one you see in these renderings), the Cordish Live! entertainment venue (NE quadrant), a hotel tower (SE quadrant), and a residential tower (SW quadrant).  The retention pond is still planned to have the parking garage as well as the roads in between the 4 quads setup to be used for events occasionally with lighting and sound.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Jagsdrew on February 04, 2019, 10:03:24 AM
Lot J is underwhelming.

Adams street location next to courthouse is the best option. Let Atkins buy the old JEA site to redevelop.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Captain Zissou on February 04, 2019, 11:59:39 AM
If anyone has spent any time at JEA, it's not exactly the work/live/play type of millenial crowd that they're going after to fill the residential component, and frequent the bars on random weeknights, and attend concerts and events at the sports complex.

You'd think that trying to lure someone like Fanatics or an outside tech company would be a better fit.

Fanatics would be the perfect company for Lot J.  Jax headquartered, sports affiliated, young and energetic company culture and CEO.  They would also be most likely to use other venues in Lot J/the stadium for corporate events.  With their planned IPO in the not too distant future, having investor day events in the US Assure clubs would be pretty cool.

Pulling a large business out of the core and placing them into a live, work, play development that they'll just be a drain on seems too Jacksonville though.  I don't see how JEA doesn't go to Lot J.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: marcuscnelson on February 04, 2019, 07:45:38 PM
I'm still trying to understand why they seem to want JEA so badly. Is it just the number of workers or something else?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on February 04, 2019, 07:58:42 PM
I'm still trying to understand why they seem to want JEA so badly. Is it just the number of workers or something else?

Think like a single guy who wants someone to go home with. It’s closing time at the club, and an okay looking woman is also looking for someone to go home with. She’s made her mind up that she’s spending the night in a new bed.

Sometimes, it’s what’a available.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on February 04, 2019, 10:03:28 PM
I'm still trying to understand why they seem to want JEA so badly. Is it just the number of workers or something else?

Think like a single guy who wants someone to go home with. It’s closing time at the club, and an okay looking woman is also looking for someone to go home with. She’s made her mind up that she’s spending the night in a new bed.

Sometimes, it’s what’a available.

I could see this scenario actually playing out if JEA to Lot J happens. Some tourist with poor timing hears that Lot J is the place to be, drinks too much on a dead Wednesday night at Howl at the Moon, shares a plate of Aramark nachos with the only "babe" there, and wakes up the next morning next to some 70 year old woman who accidentally stumbled into Jacksonville Live while trying to pay her sewage bill. Between the parking garage, office complex, Cordish entertainment center, and demolition of the old JEA Tower, the intercourse enjoys a $14,000 public subsidy.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on February 04, 2019, 10:49:47 PM
In all seriousness, that’s sort of what I don’t understand. JEA talked about security, and in that vein, turned down the Atkins proposal which was the mos mixed use of all of the developments. Yet, they’re considering relocating to a mixed use complex next to a stadium?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Charles Hunter on February 04, 2019, 10:58:30 PM
^ The "security" of keeping Khan happy?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: bill on February 04, 2019, 11:21:54 PM
I'm still trying to understand why they seem to want JEA so badly. Is it just the number of workers or something else?

Think like a single guy who wants someone to go home with. It’s closing time at the club, and an okay looking woman is also looking for someone to go home with. She’s made her mind up that she’s spending the night in a new bed.

Sometimes, it’s what’a available.

Very funny



I could see this scenario actually playing out if JEA to Lot J happens. Some tourist with poor timing hears that Lot J is the place to be, drinks too much on a dead Wednesday night at Howl at the Moon, shares a plate of Aramark nachos with the only "babe" there, and wakes up the next morning next to some 70 year old woman who accidentally stumbled into Jacksonville Live while trying to pay her sewage bill. Between the parking garage, office complex, Cordish entertainment center, and demolition of the old JEA Tower, the intercourse enjoys a $14,000 public subsidy.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Captain Zissou on February 05, 2019, 09:37:32 AM
I'm still trying to understand why they seem to want JEA so badly. Is it just the number of workers or something else?

Think like a single guy who wants someone to go home with. It’s closing time at the club, and an okay looking woman is also looking for someone to go home with. She’s made her mind up that she’s spending the night in a new bed.

Sometimes, it’s what’a available.

I've seen Steve pull this move many times.  Truly a privilege to watch an artist perfecting their craft
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on February 05, 2019, 01:49:56 PM
I'm still trying to understand why they seem to want JEA so badly. Is it just the number of workers or something else?

It is because Khan and company are quickly running out of potential tennants.  Instead of trying to poach existing downtown businesses or even other local companies, Khan should be trying to attract a corporate relocation from out of state.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on February 05, 2019, 01:55:33 PM
They don't have to look far. Khan already owns Flex N Gate. Be like Dan Gilbert and move your own company to serve as an anchor for the grand vision.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Jagsdrew on February 05, 2019, 02:22:01 PM
They don't have to look far. Khan already owns Flex N Gate. Be like Dan Gilbert and move your own company to serve as an anchor for the grand vision.

It would be a big undertaking for Khan do that. Corporate employees are scattered throughout the midwest and manufacturing is scattered through the world.

Can't disagree though with your statement. You are 100% correct considering if you want an anchor tenant and you have a multi-billion dollar company. I think it would be around the 1,000-1,500 job range that would be moved down here if this was in consideration. Manufacturing would probably not relocate.

Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on February 05, 2019, 03:18:00 PM
^Flex N' Gate has a market cap of $7.5 billion, and is Shad Khan's primary business. Illinois has been his home since he's moved to the United States (like Detroit to Dan Gilbert), he's very well connected in Chicago, and Illinois has given him a lot of attractive subsidies for job creation. I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to uproot 13,000+ employees and abandon his home to make some big statement about a Cordish big-box development being built to support his $2 billion football hobby.

What's more reasonable to me is that, after years of moving Jags home games abroad and pumping us full of rhetoric about how great the London relationship will be for Jacksonville, the Jags give us something to show for it. For six years, we've been sending the mayor along with other city and civic officials to London for a week before the game to cultivate relationships with the London business community and stimulate economic development for Jacksonville.

Surely, after six years, there's got to be a waiting list of London-based companies dying to expand internationally into Jacksonville.

The Jags can take their pick.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on February 05, 2019, 03:26:04 PM
Lol - is this a good time to mention British Airways expanded to Charleston and not Jax?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: jaxjags on February 05, 2019, 08:07:46 PM
Lol - is this a good time to mention British Airways expanded to Charleston and not Jax?

Again look at CHAS deal - SUBSUDIES
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on February 05, 2019, 08:47:52 PM
Because Jax doesn't offer subsidies?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: marcuscnelson on February 05, 2019, 08:55:42 PM
What's more reasonable to me is that, after years of moving Jags home games abroad and pumping us full of rhetoric about how great the London relationship will be for Jacksonville, the Jags give us something to show for it. For six years, we've been sending the mayor along with other city and civic officials to London for a week before the game to cultivate relationships with the London business community and stimulate economic development for Jacksonville.

Surely, after six years, there's got to be a waiting list of London-based companies dying to expand internationally into Jacksonville.

The Jags can take their pick.

Woah, there. I think you're misunderstanding the nature of this relationship. It's really quite simple. London gets to host football games we send our city officials to, and threaten to take our football team, and in exchange, we get the satisfaction of knowing we have a football team.

For now.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on February 05, 2019, 09:27:40 PM
Because Jax doesn't offer subsidies?

Generally not for flights like this. For the CHS flight, the State of SC tossed money at it. Florida is unlikely to do that considering we have America’s #3 international gateway already.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: sandyshoes on February 07, 2019, 12:47:12 PM
With all the vacant real estate in this town, why are they having to build something new...maybe they should look into the failed Brooklyn shopping center or the convention center.  Or The Landing.  Just sayin'.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on February 07, 2019, 12:50:50 PM
Well, if you're referring to the retail in 220, that's like 15k sqFt. I think JEA needs like 200k sqFt. Not sure what else you're referring to in Brooklyn as the Fresh Market center is 100% leased, and between Vista and Brooklyn Place they're building two more center.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Jagsdrew on February 19, 2019, 08:51:08 AM
Nine Floors of the JEA Tower flooded over the weekend. Looks like it's business as usual as it only affected the break room areas.

https://www.wokv.com/news/local/parts-nine-floors-jea-downtown-tower-flood-from-multiple-building-issues/LGVzHLchk2UQyKVbQ8cpnI/ (https://www.wokv.com/news/local/parts-nine-floors-jea-downtown-tower-flood-from-multiple-building-issues/LGVzHLchk2UQyKVbQ8cpnI/)
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: marcuscnelson on February 19, 2019, 10:52:01 AM
Nine Floors of the JEA Tower flooded over the weekend. Looks like it's business as usual as it only affected the break room areas.

https://www.wokv.com/news/local/parts-nine-floors-jea-downtown-tower-flood-from-multiple-building-issues/LGVzHLchk2UQyKVbQ8cpnI/ (https://www.wokv.com/news/local/parts-nine-floors-jea-downtown-tower-flood-from-multiple-building-issues/LGVzHLchk2UQyKVbQ8cpnI/)


Yikes! They must be itching to get out of there.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: vicupstate on February 19, 2019, 11:11:12 AM
Quote
On Monday, JEA says a water supply line to the ice machine on the 14th floor failed, flooding that break room and surrounding areas. JEA says that leak caused damage to the 12th floor as well, although it appears the 13th floor was spared.

So much for 13 being unlucky.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Charles Hunter on February 19, 2019, 12:35:37 PM
The 13th Floor was protected by the Interdimensional Demons, as all 13th floors are Interdimensional Portals.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on February 19, 2019, 02:46:54 PM
The 13th Floor was protected by the Interdimensional Demons, as all 13th floors are Interdimensional Portals.

Haha - apparently the writer of the story has never been in a building larger than 12 stories.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on February 19, 2019, 02:49:54 PM
Side note: These three things happening within days of each other seems uncanny....or they literally don't maintain anything. A Water heater going bad isn't a building structural issue. I suppose the line to the ice maker could have been....or a rubber hose just gave out. The third thing seems like nothing.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on March 22, 2019, 10:01:16 PM
The costs associated with Cordish's potential 200,000 square foot, Class-A, Beyer Blinder & Belle designed JEA headquarters at Lot J aren't being released to the public, but for what it's worth, Cordish's recently announced 200,000 square foot, Class-A, Beyer Blinder & Belle designed Pattison Place at Xfinity Live! in Philadelphia is estimated to cost $80 million.

Similar design, with but 20,000 square feet of ground-floor retail, which the JEA proposal doesn't include.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dy0LuYpX0AIc6_w.jpg)

I'm sure Philly has union expenses that we wouldn't, but we'll have remediation expenses on our end as well.

Here's a look at the hot new urban disrict emerging around Xfinity Live!

Hope JEA's paying attention.

(https://snag.gy/LQqUX4.jpg)

What's interesting to note is that even though Pattison Place is next door to a major transit station and adjacent to the home of the NFL's Eagles, the NHL's Flyers, the NBA's Sixers, and the MLB's Phillies, the office space isn't being built speculatively. Cordish has stated that no construction will begin on Pattison Place until a certain percentage of the office space is pre-leased.

Could likely be a sign of things to come in Jax if JEA doesn't happen at Lot J.

I heard from someone at JEA today that there's a chance the decision might get punted again from early April. I've heard from multiple other people over there that the employees don't want Lot J, but feel like it's likely going to happen.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on March 23, 2019, 12:21:47 AM
^What do employees want and why? Any idea how the transit dependent who need to pay electric bills at the last minute are going to access this place if it ends up at Lot J?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 23, 2019, 01:32:04 PM
Any idea how the transit dependent who need to pay electric bills at the last minute are going to access this place if it ends up at Lot J?

If the Curry administration is anything like my dad, they'll be told that they should pay online and not bother trying to go to a physical place.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on March 23, 2019, 03:05:30 PM
Hahaha, that works until you encounter residents who can't afford phones, computers, etc. and those that don't have bank accounts to be able the pay online. At that point, you'd possibly have a discrimination suit on your hands.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on March 23, 2019, 03:46:33 PM
Those Philly parking lots make me want to cry.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on March 23, 2019, 07:43:16 PM
It's clearly a place in Philly that you don't go to unless you're in that specific area to catch a game.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on March 25, 2019, 10:53:29 AM
^What do employees want and why? Any idea how the transit dependent who need to pay electric bills at the last minute are going to access this place if it ends up at Lot J?

There's some support for Lot J, but the majority opinion seems to be a desire to "stay downtown."

Like the Downtown Vision survey suggests, 90% of downtown workers enjoy working downtown, and it doesn't sound like the average JEA employee considers Lot J to be a part of downtown proper.

Very few JEA employees have any more information about the headquarters decision than the general public does. Employees were given the same public information packets for the three options as everyone else.

There are some people at JEA who absolutely want to close the customer care center, but the idea is 100% off the table. Wherever they end up, there's going to be a walk-in component.

For context, the current JEA headquarters is a six-block, .25 mile round trip walk from Rosa Parks.

If JEA moves to Lot J, the customer care center will be a 50-block, 4.5 mile round trip walk from the JRTC.

Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on March 25, 2019, 11:10:08 AM
Interestingly, the Kings Ave Group is pushing hard on Social Media. Not sure that will matter, but I find that interesting. I'll be disappointed if this is the site, but not nearly as disappointed as Lot J.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on March 25, 2019, 12:11:25 PM
The Kings Ave station isn't bad at all.  Connected to free mass transit and free parking across the street.  For employees there are plenty of lunch options and easy freeway access.  For contractors and consultants there are two hotels right next door.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on March 25, 2019, 01:57:26 PM
Going into last month, Kings Avenue was considered third to the other two proposals.

They think, or at least thought, the property might be too small and claustrophic with the highway.

What's interesting is that JEA is quietly looking to sell $50-$100 million in real estate holdings to finance their new headquarters.

I'm curious as to what this might mean.

The financial details of the three proposals aren't public, but wouldn't this figure suggest outright ownership, rather than leasing space from Cordish?

Who knows, maybe calmer heads will prevail.

 
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Charles Hunter on March 25, 2019, 02:03:53 PM
Wouldn't the financial details be available through a Sunshine public documents request?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on March 25, 2019, 02:26:29 PM
Wouldn't the financial details be available through a Sunshine public documents request?

JEA's procurement code has a clause regarding ex parte communication that allows them to keep proprietary/financing details under lock and key.

In theory, it's not a terrible thing, as it allows JEA to evaluate each proposal based on its merits alone without the three firms tearing each other to pieces, and also forbids any back-channel contact between JEA's board members and Cordish, Balanky, or Ryan during the decision-making process.

Things obviously get muddier when we're potentially talking about taxpayer dollars, but part of the reason that JEA is looking to offload land to pay for the new headquarters is to ensure that whatever decision they make, it doesn't come at the cost of increased rates for local customers.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Charles Hunter on March 28, 2019, 10:19:18 AM
This could go in several threads, but, since the title of this one mentions "evacuation risk", I picked this one.
Nate Monroe has a good opinion piece about the Sea Level Rise Task Force.  Of course, since Lenny doesn't believe in that, it has a more obfuscating name.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190327/nate-monroe-flood-study-should-include-areas-that-actually--uh-flood

This quote was interesting
Quote
Tucked into the city’s application for federal grant money to tear down the functional Hart Bridge ramps — which we’ve been told must happen for Khan’s development to take shape — city officials concede they “will address the flooding issues in recent years caused by the rising water level of the St. Johns River.”

So, the City's application for federal funds for a portion of the cost of removing the Hart Ramps says the City will address flooding issues in the area.  Yet, the "new" East Bay Street will be at precisely the same elevation as the existing one.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 28, 2019, 10:32:51 PM
We have numbers! (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jea-reveals-financial-details-of-three-proposals-for-a-new-headquarters)

In none of the offers will JEA actually own their office.
 
LocationSquare footageLease per square feetFirst year's leaseTotal development cost
King's Avenue176,230$34$5.6 million$81.7 million
Northbank195,426$32.97$6.4 million$72.2 million
Lot J176,320$26.99-$28.92$4.7-5.1 million$81.23 million

Cordish & Iguana are apparently offering anywhere between a 15-25 year lease.

The Northbank/Ryan proposal seems to have a lot going for it. It's the closest to JEA's requested square footage, it'll be the earliest available, and while the lease price is high the overall development cost is the lowest. Interesting that they've chosen next door to the Courthouse as the chosen site.

Interesting note on the final vote:

Quote
On Tuesday, only four of the seven board members are expected to cast votes – Alan Howard, April Green, Camille Lee-Johnson and the Rev. Frederick Newbill.

Board member John Campion is out with an illness, Kelly Flanagan is abstaining because she is the CFO of the Jaguars, and one seat on the board remains vacant.

The meeting is scheduled for 2 p.m.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on March 29, 2019, 09:33:42 AM
That tells me they're going with Lot J. Lowest Lease Per Square Foot.

 - The key to me was that unless there was zero financial argument they could make about Lot J they were going with it.
 - Kings Ave is surprisingly the highest overall - I wasn't expecting that.

To me, the Northbank one is the better deal financially for them.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: acme54321 on March 29, 2019, 12:20:47 PM
I don't know how much a million dollars difference in rent is going to weigh in vs other factors mentioned.  JEA's operating budget is around $2B a year.  A million dollars is practically a rounding error. 
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Charles Hunter on March 29, 2019, 01:33:44 PM
If transit access is an important evaluation factor, the ranking should be Northbank, King's Avenue, then Lot J.  With the Total Development Cost of Northbank the lowest, it should be an easy decision.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Captain Zissou on March 29, 2019, 02:38:04 PM
That tells me they're going with Lot J. Lowest Lease Per Square Foot.

I can't wait for the April Fools article.  Some of the actual headlines this year have been so unbelievable that it's going to take a real doozy to surpass them.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on March 29, 2019, 03:28:27 PM
One (legit) question I do have: The Adams Street proposal is like 20k SqFt larger than the others. Someone mentioned it was closer to JEA's ask. What was the JEA ask?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: jaxlongtimer on March 29, 2019, 06:30:16 PM
That tells me they're going with Lot J. Lowest Lease Per Square Foot.

 - The key to me was that unless there was zero financial argument they could make about Lot J they were going with it.
 - Kings Ave is surprisingly the highest overall - I wasn't expecting that.

To me, the Northbank one is the better deal financially for them.

I read where the lease per square foot numbers are not comparable.  The lower ones exclude the parking facility while the higher ones include it.  Can't tell if that accounts for all of the difference, but likely does most of it.

The devil is in the details.  Would JEA also pay a bit more for a superior location, a more architecturally pleasing building, ability to make desired leasehold improvements (which will apparently fall to JEA), preferred floor plates and column spacings, public visibility, connectivity and appropriateness to the surrounding area, amenities, maintenance and operational costs, security, resistance to natural disasters, attractiveness to recruiting employees, proximity to internet and communication hubs, etc.? They should be putting a value on intangibles like this, not just the pure numbers.  Unless the developers are really greedy, you usually get what you pay for in a contest like this.

There is also the quality of the developer's contract such as guarantees on pricing and timelines for completion, common area arrangements, handling of change orders, etc.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: minder on March 30, 2019, 05:58:38 PM
Whats next for Cordish/Jaguars if JEA choose one of the other sites? Would they be able to attract a major company from the suburbs to anchor the office development, i.e. Web.com, Fanatics, Firehouse etc?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 30, 2019, 08:02:34 PM
Whats next for Cordish/Jaguars if JEA choose one of the other sites? Would they be able to attract a major company from the suburbs to anchor the office development, i.e. Web.com, Fanatics, Firehouse etc?

No way they get Web.com. They're about to move into a brand new building by Town Center. Unless Cordish is about to buy them out of that lease and then make them wait 3 years for a new office, that just isn't happening.

Fanatics and Firehouse? Anyone's guess.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2019, 08:28:37 AM
We have numbers! (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jea-reveals-financial-details-of-three-proposals-for-a-new-headquarters)

In none of the offers will JEA actually own their office.
 
LocationSquare footageLease per square feetFirst year's leaseTotal development cost
King's Avenue176,230$34$5.6 million$81.7 million
Northbank195,426$32.97$6.4 million$72.2 million
Lot J176,320$26.99-$28.92$4.7-5.1 million$81.23 million

Cordish & Iguana are apparently offering anywhere between a 15-25 year lease.

The Northbank/Ryan proposal seems to have a lot going for it. It's the closest to JEA's requested square footage, it'll be the earliest available, and while the lease price is high the overall development cost is the lowest. Interesting that they've chosen next door to the Courthouse as the chosen site.

Interesting note on the final vote:

Quote
On Tuesday, only four of the seven board members are expected to cast votes – Alan Howard, April Green, Camille Lee-Johnson and the Rev. Frederick Newbill.

Board member John Campion is out with an illness, Kelly Flanagan is abstaining because she is the CFO of the Jaguars, and one seat on the board remains vacant.

The meeting is scheduled for 2 p.m.

So this goes down today?  Any last minute predictions?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Tacachale on April 02, 2019, 08:55:39 AM
We have numbers! (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jea-reveals-financial-details-of-three-proposals-for-a-new-headquarters)

In none of the offers will JEA actually own their office.
 
LocationSquare footageLease per square feetFirst year's leaseTotal development cost
King's Avenue176,230$34$5.6 million$81.7 million
Northbank195,426$32.97$6.4 million$72.2 million
Lot J176,320$26.99-$28.92$4.7-5.1 million$81.23 million

Cordish & Iguana are apparently offering anywhere between a 15-25 year lease.

The Northbank/Ryan proposal seems to have a lot going for it. It's the closest to JEA's requested square footage, it'll be the earliest available, and while the lease price is high the overall development cost is the lowest. Interesting that they've chosen next door to the Courthouse as the chosen site.

Interesting note on the final vote:

Quote
On Tuesday, only four of the seven board members are expected to cast votes – Alan Howard, April Green, Camille Lee-Johnson and the Rev. Frederick Newbill.

Board member John Campion is out with an illness, Kelly Flanagan is abstaining because she is the CFO of the Jaguars, and one seat on the board remains vacant.

The meeting is scheduled for 2 p.m.

So this goes down today?  Any last minute predictions?

Lol, yes.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: sanmarcomatt on April 02, 2019, 09:05:06 AM

So this goes down today?  Any last minute predictions?

I am very confident this is a fair, open competition so I have them ranked in the following order with 1 being the likeliest to "win":

1. Lot J
2. Lot J
3. Lot J


Please let me be wrong.



Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Captain Zissou on April 02, 2019, 09:14:04 AM
I was hoping this vote would be yesterday so I could laugh it off as an April fool's joke when I saw the Lot J headlines.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2019, 12:44:12 PM
Developer takes aim at other JEA HQ proposals ahead of vote

Quote
A development team aiming to build JEA's next headquarters has gone on the offensive ahead of a vote on where the new building will be developed. The group led by Chase Properties has launched a Facebook ad campaign that argues that 1201 Kings Ave. in San Marco as the best location for the headquarters. The team also delivered a letter to the Business Journal Monday that critiques the two other proposals the JEA Board of Directors are expected to consider Tuesday afternoon.

Full article: https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2019/04/02/developer-takes-aim-at-other-jea-hq-proposals.html
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Captain Zissou on April 02, 2019, 02:20:32 PM
Seems like even they know the deck is stacked against them.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on April 02, 2019, 02:52:32 PM
Might just be a good day for the central business district...
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on April 02, 2019, 02:57:12 PM
Might just be a good day for the central business district...

lol don't tease.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on April 02, 2019, 02:57:43 PM
Seems like even they know the deck is stacked against them.

They aren't wrong about the Lot J criticisms. I think their Adams street criticisms are a stretch though. They cite the unknown about buying the land, when JEA and COJ already entered into an agreement to do just that. Obviously something could blow that up, but that's basically saying, "you have to deal with COJ so don't pick that one.

They also cite the number of city agencies. I supposed DDRB is an additional one, but let's be honest - when has DDRB stopped anything?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: edjax on April 02, 2019, 04:53:15 PM
ADAms St it is
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on April 02, 2019, 04:53:28 PM
Action News reporting that Adams Street Won!!!
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: camarocane on April 02, 2019, 04:54:38 PM
Wow Adams Street... didn’t see that coming. No sarcasm intended!
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Westside Guy on April 02, 2019, 04:55:01 PM
I can’t believe it. The board just did something competent.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on April 02, 2019, 04:56:47 PM
Seriously. I'm SHOCKED. I totally thought the fix was in.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on April 02, 2019, 04:57:50 PM
Tweet from JEA's Official Account:

Quote
It is with great pleasure that we announce the JEA Board has selected 325 West Adams Street (Ryan Companies US Inc.) to negotiate development for JEA’s new corporate headquarters. We look forward to sharing more soon about this exciting project.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: MikeG1479 on April 02, 2019, 05:04:06 PM
This was the one I was hoping for.  I guess the expression that a 'blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while' applies here.  Good for the city of Jacksonville.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: jagsonville on April 02, 2019, 05:28:58 PM
Great choice! Plus the Jacksonville sucks, Khan bad man, Curry destroying everything crowd can take a breath!  ;D
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: sanmarcomatt on April 02, 2019, 05:29:18 PM
"I don't believe...what I just saw!" (In my best Vin Scully voice)
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Snaketoz on April 02, 2019, 05:55:02 PM
Great choice! Plus the Jacksonville sucks, Khan bad man, Curry destroying everything crowd can take a breath!  ;D
This vocal crowd may indeed be the reason Lot J wasn't chosen.  Good choice!
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kiva on April 02, 2019, 06:01:31 PM
This was the one I was hoping for.  I guess the expression that a 'blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while' applies here.  Good for the city of Jacksonville.
Exactly! Good news. We need to vote for blind squirrels! Or maybe the board members of JEA deserve some credit.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: jaxnyc79 on April 02, 2019, 06:07:19 PM
Someone help me understand, please.  850 employees in a high-rise in the heart of downtown Jax, will now move to a mid-rise in another location in the heart of downtown.  We get a new structure on a vacant lot, which will render an existing high-rise vacant?  Are we celebrating an enhancement downtown, or celebrating the avoidance of a crisis (that crisis being the loss of 850 jobs in the CBD to some tangential lot?)
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Tacachale on April 02, 2019, 06:07:47 PM
This was unexpected but definitely the right choice. I reckon that the public input was a factor in pushing or enabling the board to make the right call. Kudos all around.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Tacachale on April 02, 2019, 06:11:34 PM
Someone help me understand, please.  850 employees in a high-rise in the heart of downtown Jax, will now move to a mid-rise in another location in the heart of downtown.  We get a new structure on a vacant lot, which will render an existing high-rise vacant?  Are we celebrating an enhancement downtown, or celebrating the avoidance of a crisis (that crisis being the loss of 850 jobs in the CBD to some tangential lot?)

Good question. The basic thing here is that JEA doesn’t need all that space in its current headquarters, which wasn’t ideal for it to begin with. Keeping them downtown and in a better fitting facility is a gain, and there are other positives of this location (not the least of which is infilling a vacant lot. That said, we need to fight to make sure the city doesn’t go Godzilla on the old headquarters rather than just selling it to someone who could get use out of it.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on April 02, 2019, 06:15:17 PM
Someone help me understand, please.  850 employees in a high-rise in the heart of downtown Jax, will now move to a mid-rise in another location in the heart of downtown.  We get a new structure on a vacant lot, which will render an existing high-rise vacant?  Are we celebrating an enhancement downtown, or celebrating the avoidance of a crisis (that crisis being the loss of 850 jobs in the CBD to some tangential lot?)

The latter, but I’ll take it.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: edjax on April 02, 2019, 07:03:30 PM
Is it too soon for everyone to start complaining about no retail being included in the large garage? 
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2019, 07:09:47 PM
Someone help me understand, please.  850 employees in a high-rise in the heart of downtown Jax, will now move to a mid-rise in another location in the heart of downtown.  We get a new structure on a vacant lot, which will render an existing high-rise vacant?  Are we celebrating an enhancement downtown, or celebrating the avoidance of a crisis (that crisis being the loss of 850 jobs in the CBD to some tangential lot?)

You pretty much nailed it. The crisis situation would have been the loss of 850 jobs and an empty highrise. This is about as good as things can play out with the three options on the table. 850 jobs stay downtown, downtown loses a block of surface parking and all the empty retail storefronts on West Adams surrounding it now have an anchor to help generate the foot traffic to feed them. The one negative, the JEA Tower, being vacated can be turned into a positive if that site is revamped with a mix of retail, office and residential. Given the timeline, we have roughly 2.5 years to debate and push for reuse over demolition on the JEA Tower. As for Lot J and Balanky's sites, hopefully they can find viable tenants willing to move into the core to make them feasible.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2019, 07:13:14 PM
Btw, I'm looking through the scoring now. One thing that really stands out about Lot J is the 3,000 space parking garage that will be built to serve development around the stadium. It has a $40 to $45 million price tag and will be funded by a third party or developer outside of the JEA lease. Needless to say, that third party is likely John Q. Taxpayer. So we can at least add that to the cost of what the public will have to pay to get development off the ground around the stadium.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: edjax on April 02, 2019, 07:20:30 PM
Btw, I'm looking through the scoring now. One thing that really stands out about Lot J is the 3,000 space parking garage that will be built to serve development around the stadium. It has a $40 to $45 million price tag and will be funded by a third party or developer outside of the JEA lease. Needless to say, that third party is likely John Q. Taxpayer. So we can at least add that to the cost of what the public will have to pay to get development off the ground around the stadium.

I watched the live stream of the meeting and it was clear the city will be building the new garage, or at least responsible for a large portion of it and that was regardless of JEA moving there it seemed.  One of the funny comments was by Paul Harden ( who seemed extremely unprepared) that the city has a good track record of operating parking garages. Uh yea, quite the record.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on April 02, 2019, 07:22:10 PM
This was unexpected but definitely the right choice. I reckon that the public input was a factor in pushing or enabling the board to make the right call. Kudos all around.

Big credit also to CBRE for doing an incredible, impartial job scoring each proposal on merit alone and being honest and open about the pros and cons of each.

Bang-up, professional job by everyone involved here in the face of what was surely a lot of pressure to go Lot J.

Huge net win for downtown Jacksonville, even if the employee count in the CBD doesn't radically change as a result.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: edjax on April 02, 2019, 07:26:53 PM
David Cawton has included on his Twitter account a statement from Iguana.  I’d post it but techno dummie and have no idea how to do it. General statement saying they were disappointed burn happy to see other excellent proposals for downtown and that it would not impact their desire to furthering their desires to develop downtown.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2019, 07:30:33 PM
Btw, I'm looking through the scoring now. One thing that really stands out about Lot J is the 3,000 space parking garage that will be built to serve development around the stadium. It has a $40 to $45 million price tag and will be funded by a third party or developer outside of the JEA lease. Needless to say, that third party is likely John Q. Taxpayer. So we can at least add that to the cost of what the public will have to pay to get development off the ground around the stadium.

I watched the live stream of the meeting and it was clear the city will be building the new garage, or at least responsible for a large portion of it and that was regardless of JEA moving there it seemed.  One of the funny comments was by Paul Harden ( who seemed extremely unprepared) that the city has a good track record of operating parking garages. Uh yea, quite the record.

I was able to live stream for a little while between meetings today. It was during the time that Harden and Balanky made their closing points. Harden said a few questionable things that I wish someone would have challenged. COJ's success with parking garages was one of them. We got the short end of the stick with the Metropolitan Parking Solutions deal and have spent millions over the last decade as a result. That's anything but a success.  He also made a case for claiming Lot J being a superior location for transit dependent residents to access the site. In reality, it is about the worst location within the old city limits that one can find when it comes to access to reliable transit options.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2019, 07:33:37 PM
David Cawton has included on his Twitter account a statement from Iguana.  I’d post it but techno dummie and have no idea how to do it. General statement saying they were disappointed burn happy to see other excellent proposals for downtown and that it would not impact their desire to furthering their desires to develop downtown.

Good for them. I hope they can pull in a major tenant from outside the area. I still would like that to be some Flex-N-Gate related operation! Was also disappointed with Cawton's twitter updates. They were overwhelmingly focused on Lot J, so during times when I couldn't live stream, it was hard to follow how the other options compared.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: marcuscnelson on April 02, 2019, 07:34:44 PM
Well I'll be…

A good thing happened.

Hopefully we can see more decisions like these for Downtown.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: edjax on April 02, 2019, 07:47:23 PM
David Cawton has included on his Twitter account a statement from Iguana.  I’d post it but techno dummie and have no idea how to do it. General statement saying they were disappointed burn happy to see other excellent proposals for downtown and that it would not impact their desire to furthering their desires to develop downtown.

Good for them. I hope they can pull in a major tenant from outside the area. I still would like that to be some Flex-N-Gate related operation! Was also disappointed with Cawton's twitter updates. They were overwhelmingly focused on Lot J, so during times when I couldn't live stream, it was hard to follow how the other options compared.

While watching I also followed Stephanie Brown with WOKV.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2019, 07:54:47 PM
Thanks, I'll be switching to her!
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Tacachale on April 02, 2019, 08:19:19 PM
Thanks, I'll be switching to her!

A good policy in general.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on April 02, 2019, 08:26:27 PM
I'm shocked.  I think this effectively kills Lot J.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2019, 08:34:04 PM
I doubt that. JEA wasn't going to make or break their plans for that site.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on April 02, 2019, 08:47:11 PM
^Long-term, JEA's decision is ultimately a blessing in disguise for Cordish.

If anyone has spent any significant time over at JEA, it's incredibly obvious that JEA's conservative pension crowd isn't a great fit for what Cordish is looking to do with Lot J. Plus, Cordish is going to get a much healthier subsidy from the city on an office component that doesn't involve a public entity. Members of the city council quietly made it clear that REV grants weren't going to be handed out liberally for a JEA headquarters - even if landlord operated - and actively discouraged Morris from responding to the RFP for this very reason.

The office component might be delayed, but Lot J will be fine.

The idea was hatched before JEA - a $60-million mid-rise office building for the local utlity isn't going to make or break Lot J-  and a lot of large local companies beyond JEA have leases coming up in the next 1-3 years.

Ideally, Cordish is able to bring in an outside company, which would make the subsidy a little easier to swallow.

To me, the most revealing thing about today's board meeting was Paul Harden's comments about just how far along the plans for Lot J are. They've got a remediation partner in play, and a timeline for cleanup. And, according to Harden, the economic development agreement between Cordish and the city has been passed back and forth several dozen times, was ready in principle but waiting to see what happened with JEA, and could be signed in less than a week if need be.

Interesting also that Paul Harden referenced Jacksonville Live! as a seven-story complex. 
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: heights unknown on April 02, 2019, 09:24:52 PM
THIS is the lot I was also hoping for as well. A little more denseness (teenie weenie) and infill on the west side of downtown. Hopefully they won't demolish the old JEA building. Sell it for re-use or if it is demolished, ensure that another great development or useful building is built on that property. Poor Lot J, but they will be alright. Just hope that this kind of sets a trend for city government relative to new construction downtown. Northbank really needs several shots in the arm.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on April 02, 2019, 10:27:52 PM
^Long-term, JEA's decision is ultimately a blessing in disguise for Cordish.

If anyone has spent any significant time over at JEA, it's incredibly obvious that JEA's conservative pension crowd isn't a great fit for what Cordish is looking to do with Lot J. Plus, Cordish is going to get a much healthier subsidy from the city on an office component that doesn't involve a public entity. Members of the city council quietly made it clear that REV grants weren't going to be handed out liberally for a JEA headquarters - even if landlord operated - and actively discouraged Morris from responding to the RFP for this very reason.

The office component might be delayed, but Lot J will be fine.

The idea was hatched before JEA - a $60-million mid-rise office building for the local utlity isn't going to make or break Lot J-  and a lot of large local companies beyond JEA have leases coming up in the next 1-3 years.

Ideally, Cordish is able to bring in an outside company, which would make the subsidy a little easier to swallow.

To me, the most revealing thing about today's board meeting was Paul Harden's comments about just how far along the plans for Lot J are. They've got a remediation partner in play, and a timeline for cleanup. And, according to Harden, the economic development agreement between Cordish and the city has been passed back and forth several dozen times, was ready in principle but waiting to see what happened with JEA, and could be signed in less than a week if need be.

Interesting also that Paul Harden referenced Jacksonville Live! as a seven-story complex.

No one at Iguana is saying, "Whew, we dodged a bullet on that one."
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Captain Zissou on April 03, 2019, 09:08:27 AM
No one at Iguana is saying, "Whew, we dodged a bullet on that one."

Ken seems a bit more in the know on this one.  Also, he said it is a blessing "long term".  A commitment for 200k sqft would have maybe helped turn dirt faster, but I do think that JEA would have been a bad fit for the site.  My pick is Fanatics with a campus similar to what Under Armour has in Baltimore but denser with some public-ish activity spaces that fit with the vibe of the area.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on April 03, 2019, 09:36:20 AM
^Long-term, JEA's decision is ultimately a blessing in disguise for Cordish.

If anyone has spent any significant time over at JEA, it's incredibly obvious that JEA's conservative pension crowd isn't a great fit for what Cordish is looking to do with Lot J. Plus, Cordish is going to get a much healthier subsidy from the city on an office component that doesn't involve a public entity. Members of the city council quietly made it clear that REV grants weren't going to be handed out liberally for a JEA headquarters - even if landlord operated - and actively discouraged Morris from responding to the RFP for this very reason.

The office component might be delayed, but Lot J will be fine.

The idea was hatched before JEA - a $60-million mid-rise office building for the local utlity isn't going to make or break Lot J-  and a lot of large local companies beyond JEA have leases coming up in the next 1-3 years.

Ideally, Cordish is able to bring in an outside company, which would make the subsidy a little easier to swallow.

To me, the most revealing thing about today's board meeting was Paul Harden's comments about just how far along the plans for Lot J are. They've got a remediation partner in play, and a timeline for cleanup. And, according to Harden, the economic development agreement between Cordish and the city has been passed back and forth several dozen times, was ready in principle but waiting to see what happened with JEA, and could be signed in less than a week if need be.

Interesting also that Paul Harden referenced Jacksonville Live! as a seven-story complex. 

I agree with these points, and I feel like Cordish was trying to put the left shoe on the right foot with JEA. If they do Lot J right, then the buildings may have offices, but will have extensive restaurants on the ground floor and such. JEA on the other hand specifically didn't want that. So it was an odd mix from the start.

Fanatics hasn't been in their building now and I haven't worked there since 2015, but I see the potential tie-in
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on April 03, 2019, 09:47:20 AM
Anyone know how many office workers does Fanatics have in Jacksonville?  Surely they wouldn't move warehouse and manufacturing activities to Lot J.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on April 03, 2019, 10:10:56 AM
Is it too soon for everyone to start complaining about no retail being included in the large garage? 

The garage should have some form of ground floor leasable space. The concepts show space in the middle of the property on West Adams and at the SW corner of Julia and Monroe streets. As the design is refined, it would make sense to push all of that retail to front West Adams. Julia and Monroe are more service oriented so putting retail on Adams strengthens the pedestrian connection between LaVilla and the heart of the Northbank. Ryan's best and final offer also suggests that....

1. If sufficient food service is available within ¼ mile of the Building’s main entrance(s) to meet half the seating requirement of the employee cafeteria. The Building cafeteria may be reduced by one-third of its seating capacity. The cafeteria should have access to an outside seating area.

2. The Building may be part of a mixed-use development; however the Building itself will be a Building or Buildings occupied solely by JEA
functions.

The garage is a completely separate structure, so there appears to be some flexibility in what it can become.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on April 03, 2019, 10:15:50 AM
Here's a link to the details and final offers for all three proposals:

https://www.jea.com/About/Corporate_Headquarters/
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Downtown Osprey on April 03, 2019, 10:49:23 AM
No one at Iguana is saying, "Whew, we dodged a bullet on that one."

Ken seems a bit more in the know on this one.  Also, he said it is a blessing "long term".  A commitment for 200k sqft would have maybe helped turn dirt faster, but I do think that JEA would have been a bad fit for the site.  My pick is Fanatics with a campus similar to what Under Armour has in Baltimore but denser with some public-ish activity spaces that fit with the vibe of the area.

I wouldn't bank on that. Fanatics is opening up a new office space across the street from the main headquarters.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on April 03, 2019, 11:15:40 AM
I agree with these points, and I feel like Cordish was trying to put the left shoe on the right foot with JEA. If they do Lot J right, then the buildings may have offices, but will have extensive restaurants on the ground floor and such. JEA on the other hand specifically didn't want that. So it was an odd mix from the start.

Fanatics hasn't been in their building now and I haven't worked there since 2015, but I see the potential tie-in

Exactly, first available isn't always best available.

JEA's security concerns would have essentially turned the office component into a walled garden.

Going with another tenant would give Cordish the option of adding ground floor retail, like they're doing with their office facilities in St. Louis and Philadelphia.

(https://media.bizj.us/view/img/10208849/ballparkvillagephase22*750xx990-557-0-118.jpg)

(https://media.nbcphiladelphia.com/images/652*367/Pattison+Place+Part+1.jpg)

There's also a desire to add a coworking component as well, though I'm not sure if it would be in the office building.

Fanatics would be a great fit, and even though they're investing around $2 million in their existing office space this year, I woudn't rule them out. They've run out of room where they're at (the new space is overflow/satellite), and it just makes so much sense for them from a marketing, exposure, and talent aquisition perspective to be located in the sports complex. $2 million is a drop in the bucket compared to having sports fans see your name on the building every time they go the stadium or turn on the game. Throw an apparel shop in on the ground floor, layer on the public subsidy, how can they say no?

I don't know what their existing lease situation is, but Crowley Maritime is another name I've heard tossed around as well. Same scenario. Out of space. Office employees in multiple locations. Natural tie-in with the Shipyards brand.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on April 03, 2019, 11:27:22 AM
Anyone know how many office workers does Fanatics have in Jacksonville?  Surely they wouldn't move warehouse and manufacturing activities to Lot J.

Office side, put it this way - I'd guess they fill about 150k SqFt of office space, give or take. Their call center in particular is very seasonal, so the space is largely unused 8 months out of the year.

On the warehouse no - they aren't moving that downtown. They use about 750k SqFt of warehouse space between two facilities.

That aside, there would likely need to be some incentives either from COJ or from the developers for them to move. They just moved to their southside campus in 2015.

*Disclaimer - I worked at Fanatics until late 2015, but everything I've shared can be found publicly on the internet.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on April 03, 2019, 02:23:22 PM
Surely we aren't going to pay substantial subsidies for a company to move across town.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on April 03, 2019, 02:27:56 PM
^We do it all the time. All it takes is a company suggesting they're open to leaving town and another municipality offering incentives to get them too.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on April 03, 2019, 02:51:20 PM
Surely we aren't going to pay substantial subsidies for a company to move across town.

We literally did that with EverBank. Not terribly uncommon for larger employers.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on April 03, 2019, 03:14:58 PM
10X the subsidy we paid Everbank still doesn't equal half what Khan is asking for.  No one in Jax is going to go for that.  Curry would find himself on a recall petition.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on April 03, 2019, 03:52:36 PM
10X the subsidy we paid Everbank still doesn't equal half what Khan is asking for.  No one in Jax is going to go for that.  Curry would find himself on a recall petition.

What is Khan asking for?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Bill Hoff on April 03, 2019, 04:49:00 PM
Flex N Gate? Fanatics? Firehouse Subs? No, no and no.

The *perfect* fit as a local anchor for Lot J office development is so obvious I'm shocked others haven't suggested it yet . . . .

ONE SPARK.

It makes too much sense. Let's make it happen.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Kerry on April 03, 2019, 07:50:04 PM
10X the subsidy we paid Everbank still doesn't equal half what Khan is asking for.  No one in Jax is going to go for that.  Curry would find himself on a recall petition.

What is Khan asking for?

If JEA had selected Lot J it would have been $60,000,000.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: DrQue on April 04, 2019, 09:28:50 AM
LOL
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on April 04, 2019, 09:41:51 AM
10X the subsidy we paid Everbank still doesn't equal half what Khan is asking for.  No one in Jax is going to go for that.  Curry would find himself on a recall petition.

What is Khan asking for?

If JEA had selected Lot J it would have been $60,000,000.

Umm....no. If JEA had selected Lot J I'll give you the Parking Garage, as that seemed like a mess waiting to happen that the taxpayers would have had to have eaten. While expensive, it wouldn't have been $60M.

But under your logic, the city is subsidizing the Ryan Companies $72 million. Not sure that holds water.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on April 04, 2019, 09:48:45 AM
The Lot J garage is estimated to cost $40 to $45 million. Taxpayers will be on the hook for it. That was mentioned at the meeting.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on April 04, 2019, 09:57:47 AM
The Lot J garage is estimated to cost $40 to $45 million. Taxpayers will be on the hook for it. That was mentioned at the meeting.

No argument on the garage. But can someone explain how a garage costs THAT much? Is it the site cleanup or something?

The Ryan proposal won and is expected to cost $72M. There's a garage component in that. Are we really to believe that the garage is more than half of the $72M?
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Westside Guy on April 04, 2019, 10:05:24 AM
The Lot J garage is estimated to cost $40 to $45 million. Taxpayers will be on the hook for it. That was mentioned at the meeting.

No argument on the garage. But can someone explain how a garage costs THAT much? Is it the site cleanup or something?

The Ryan proposal won and is expected to cost $72M. There's a garage component in that. Are we really to believe that the garage is more than half of the $72M?

If I remember correctly they want to build the parking garage where the retention pond currently sits on Georgia Street. That would be a lot of infill and costs before they even start construction. Another added cost I heard them say in the JEA meeting is that they would have to move one of the cables that holds up the radio tower.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on April 04, 2019, 10:07:52 AM
I'm not sure how they came up with the number but it will be built over that pond and will have 3,000 spaces. The garage will have enough spaces for the rest of Lot J as well. They just would have provided 850 of those spaces to JEA.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: vicupstate on April 04, 2019, 10:15:49 AM
A 3,000 space garage, even without rentention pond issues, would cost at least $60mm would it not? 

I have never heard of a single garage being that big. It would seem the entry/exit queues would be enormous, but I am not well versed in such things.

Considering the two garages that are already in the Sports district, 3,000 seems like a lot more than necessary.   
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: fieldafm on April 04, 2019, 10:20:43 AM
Considering the two garages that are already in the Sports district, 3,000 seems like a lot more than necessary.   

You mean the Jaguars want their own dedicated parking facility to attract retailers for a Cordish (formerly Rouse) entertainment complex at Lot J?

Kinda makes you wonder:
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-may-the-jacksonville-landing-parking-myths-vs-reality (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-may-the-jacksonville-landing-parking-myths-vs-reality)

Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on April 04, 2019, 10:37:24 AM
Considering the two garages that are already in the Sports district, 3,000 seems like a lot more than necessary.   

You mean the Jaguars want their own dedicated parking facility to attract retailers for a Cordish (formerly Rouse) entertainment complex at Lot J?

Kinda makes you wonder:
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-may-the-jacksonville-landing-parking-myths-vs-reality (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-may-the-jacksonville-landing-parking-myths-vs-reality)



Wow, this again. Got it.

Amazing how this come back around.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on April 04, 2019, 10:39:36 AM
Now, to that point, I think we learned the lesson the last time (or maybe not): If they want to develop Lot J, the city needs to not be in the parking garage business on this one.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on April 04, 2019, 10:45:15 AM
They have to replace whatever amount of surface parking they remove for the development of Lot J. That was also mentioned at the JEA meeting. It's actually pretty amazing that all the arguments being used against keeping the Landing are all the exact same things we'll have to embrace to get Lot J off the ground.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: thelakelander on April 04, 2019, 10:51:51 AM
JEA also plans to sell the existing tower:

Quote
Howard said JEA will sell the Church Street headquarters as part of a larger divestment strategy that could result in $100 million of unused or excess JEA real estate being sold.

“If we could sell it tomorrow and lease it for three years while the new office is being built, we’d do it,” Howard said.


The JEA site is near the Duval County Courthouse.
The campus includes the 19-story tower and a six-level customer service center built in 1967. JEA has occupied the space since 1988.

JEA CEO Aaron Zahn said previously that redevelopment is costly and not ideal considering the footprint is too large and antiquated for JEA’s long-term needs.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jeas-next-hq-what-put-the-west-adams-street-site-past-the-jaguars-northbank-locations
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: KenFSU on April 04, 2019, 12:15:59 PM
The Lot J garage is estimated to cost $40 to $45 million. Taxpayers will be on the hook for it. That was mentioned at the meeting.

More specifically, the Lot J garage is estimated to cost a minimum $40-$45 million, per CBRE's estimate.

They basically said that they couldn't fathom a parking garage of that size being built any cheaper than that.

Taking the retention pond out of the equation, the median cost of parking garage construction is around $19,700 per space (http://denver.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2017/10/2017-Cost-Article.pdf).

At 3,000 spaces, we're probably looking at closer to $59 million,, plus whatever it costs to turn a retention pond into a buildable site.

Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Steve on April 04, 2019, 12:25:16 PM
The Lot J garage is estimated to cost $40 to $45 million. Taxpayers will be on the hook for it. That was mentioned at the meeting.

More specifically, the Lot J garage is estimated to cost a minimum $40-$45 million, per CBRE's estimate.

They basically said that they couldn't fathom a parking garage of that size being built any cheaper than that.

Taking the retention pond out of the equation, the median cost of parking garage construction is around $19,700 per space (http://denver.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2017/10/2017-Cost-Article.pdf).

At 3,000 spaces, we're probably looking at closer to $59 million,, plus whatever it costs to turn a retention pond into a buildable site.



My word, almost $20k/space - someone would be a champion of urban development if they could lower that number even a little.

I THINK the plan was on the retention pond to leave it, and hammer the pilings into the pond. The last rendering I saw seemed to indicate that. to an earlier point though, that likely means the cables holding up Channel 12's Tower will need to be adjusted. I can't fathom that costing less than "significant monies"
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: Captain Zissou on July 09, 2019, 11:31:51 AM
Fanatics would be the perfect company for Lot J.  Jax headquartered, sports affiliated, young and energetic company culture and CEO.  They would also be most likely to use other venues in Lot J/the stadium for corporate events.  With their planned IPO in the not too distant future, having investor day events in the US Assure clubs would be pretty cool.

Based on KenFSU's remarks, it sounds like my commission check should be on the way soon.  Take that, Music Man.
Title: Re: JEA hunt for headquarters site is silent on evacuation risk
Post by: MusicMan on July 10, 2019, 08:35:58 AM
Congrats  Captain. Now you can buy all of us dinner at Cowford Chop House!