The Jaxson

Community => Politics => Topic started by: JeffreyS on October 15, 2018, 11:03:20 AM

Title: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: JeffreyS on October 15, 2018, 11:03:20 AM

You would think the candidates platforms would have been well developed long before the primaries were over.  Ron DeSantis still can't seem to get his done.  Another article about DeSantis avoiding having to answer for his ideas by not letting anyone know if he has any.
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https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/10/12/on-the-number-one-issue-on-floridians-minds-ron-desantis-still-is-mostly-mute/[/url]
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: MusicMan on October 15, 2018, 12:26:49 PM
That's probably cause DeSantis has a nice health insurance package paid for by his employees.................oops...
I mean the people he works for!

You strip health insurance from our politicians and you'd see a fix in no time....if we all had the same plan (or NO plan).
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Kerry on October 15, 2018, 08:38:17 PM
Obama fixed healthcare already.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: bill on October 15, 2018, 11:41:57 PM
Obama fixed healthcare already.
LMFAO
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on October 16, 2018, 12:14:11 AM
One guy who position on health care isn't clear vs another guy saying freebies for everybody with socialism! The latter candidate scares the shit of me 100 percent more; socialism in Florida! If he wins, get ready to be the Cali of the East Coast government-wise....Get ready to have astronomical taxes, an open borders state, and becoming a state income tax state....

Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: MusicMan on October 16, 2018, 08:27:13 AM
I 10,   there's always Texas!
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on October 16, 2018, 08:40:40 AM
One guy who position on health care isn't clear vs another guy saying freebies for everybody with socialism! The latter candidate scares the shit of me 100 percent more; socialism in Florida! If he wins, get ready to be the Cali of the East Coast government-wise....Get ready to have astronomical taxes, an open borders state, and becoming a state income tax state....

Universal health care is not socialism any more than libraries, public schools, football stadiums, the military, roads, etc are 'socialism'.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: DrQue on October 16, 2018, 10:33:48 AM
Healthcare is in need of major reform in the US. The fact that medical bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the wealthiest nation on earth is crazy. Its a hard question with no easy answers. 

Right now the GOP does not have a solution to make things better for the majority of Americans. They railed against the ACA for years and then accomplished nothing meaningful when handed the keys to all three branches of government. If they have a viable plan, where is it?

Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: sanmarcomatt on October 16, 2018, 11:19:14 AM
Healthcare is in need of major reform in the US. The fact that medical bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the wealthiest nation on earth is crazy. Its a hard question with no easy answers. 


And yet, people in large numbers do nothing about things they can largely control to lower risks and potential costs to themselves( ignore nutrition,exercise, and financial planning) and are generally either apathetic or ignorant when it comes to elections and how our government actual functions.
However, Americans are great at complaining,excuses and blaming others. So we have that going for us.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Snufflee on October 16, 2018, 11:19:25 AM
One guy who position on health care isn't clear vs another guy saying freebies for everybody with socialism! The latter candidate scares the shit of me 100 percent more; socialism in Florida! If he wins, get ready to be the Cali of the East Coast government-wise....Get ready to have astronomical taxes, an open borders state, and becoming a state income tax state....

Universal health care is not socialism any more than libraries, public schools, football stadiums, the military, roads, etc are 'socialism'.

Don't bother trying to explain socialism anything that is labeled by the right as a give away is socialism..so one more time for the dense:

"a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: sanmarcomatt on October 16, 2018, 11:40:52 AM
One guy who position on health care isn't clear vs another guy saying freebies for everybody with socialism! The latter candidate scares the shit of me 100 percent more; socialism in Florida! If he wins, get ready to be the Cali of the East Coast government-wise....Get ready to have astronomical taxes, an open borders state, and becoming a state income tax state....

Universal health care is not socialism any more than libraries, public schools, football stadiums, the military, roads, etc are 'socialism'.

Don't bother trying to explain socialism anything that is labeled by the right as a give away is socialism..so one more time for the dense:

"a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

How would the dense know what the hell that means?
Better idea: Google "You have two cows".
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Snufflee on October 16, 2018, 11:45:58 AM
Its for the dense because the refusal to understand the difference between economic and political theories generally leads to stupid statements accusing nationalized healthcare as socialism.

To me Republicans and Democrats are both liberals in the traditional economic sense of supporting market based economies and democracy in the political sense.

Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: sanmarcomatt on October 16, 2018, 12:02:01 PM
Its for the dense because the refusal to understand the difference between economic and political theories generally leads to stupid statements accusing nationalized healthcare as socialism.

To me Republicans and Democrats are both liberals in the traditional economic sense of supporting market based economies and democracy in the political sense.



I take it socialists don't have a sense of humor.

Of course, they don't have much of anything, so why would they? :)   I'm here all week.

But for the humorless: I doubt a dense person would be able to grasp the meaning of the description you posted. Because...they are dense. Get it?

Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Snufflee on October 16, 2018, 12:27:55 PM
Its for the dense because the refusal to understand the difference between economic and political theories generally leads to stupid statements accusing nationalized healthcare as socialism.

To me Republicans and Democrats are both liberals in the traditional economic sense of supporting market based economies and democracy in the political sense.



I take it socialists don't have a sense of humor.

Of course, they don't have much of anything, so why would they? :)   I'm here all week.

But for the humorless: I doubt a dense person would be able to grasp the meaning of the description you posted. Because...they are dense. Get it?

 ;D  Good point.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: DrQue on October 16, 2018, 01:39:33 PM
Healthcare is in need of major reform in the US. The fact that medical bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the wealthiest nation on earth is crazy. Its a hard question with no easy answers. 


And yet, people in large numbers do nothing about things they can largely control to lower risks and potential costs to themselves( ignore nutrition,exercise, and financial planning) and are generally either apathetic or ignorant when it comes to elections and how our government actual functions.
However, Americans are great at complaining,excuses and blaming others. So we have that going for us.

You're doing a great job of complaining, blaming, and making excuses for the current situation yourself ;). Planning has nothing to do with getting a dire illness when young, unemployed etc.

From a study on Washington State cancer survivors: We found that cancer patients were 2.65 times more likely to go bankrupt than people without cancer. Younger cancer patients had 2–5 times higher rates of bankruptcy than cancer patients age sixty-five or older, which indicates that Medicare and Social Security may mitigate bankruptcy risk for the older group.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2012.1263

Here's more data from a 2016 NIH study, 3% of cancer survivors will file for bankruptcy, which is over 3X the nationwide average of <1%.

"Approximately one-third of the survivors had gone into debt, and 3 percent had filed for bankruptcy ... Cancer survivors who were younger, had lower incomes, and had public health insurance were more likely to go into debt or file for bankruptcy, compared to those who were older, had higher incomes, and had private insurance, respectively."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6057727/
http://www.bcsalliance.com/bankruptcy_statestats.html

 
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: sanmarcomatt on October 16, 2018, 02:19:39 PM
Healthcare is in need of major reform in the US. The fact that medical bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the wealthiest nation on earth is crazy. Its a hard question with no easy answers. 


And yet, people in large numbers do nothing about things they can largely control to lower risks and potential costs to themselves( ignore nutrition,exercise, and financial planning) and are generally either apathetic or ignorant when it comes to elections and how our government actual functions.
However, Americans are great at complaining,excuses and blaming others. So we have that going for us.

You're doing a great job of complaining, blaming, and making excuses for the current situation yourself ;). Planning has nothing to do with getting a dire illness when young, unemployed etc.



lifestyle choices don't affect your risk of illness or disease? And financial planning can't help with medical costs? I think we will agree to disagree on those points.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on October 16, 2018, 03:13:30 PM
Healthcare is in need of major reform in the US. The fact that medical bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the wealthiest nation on earth is crazy. Its a hard question with no easy answers. 


And yet, people in large numbers do nothing about things they can largely control to lower risks and potential costs to themselves( ignore nutrition,exercise, and financial planning) and are generally either apathetic or ignorant when it comes to elections and how our government actual functions.
However, Americans are great at complaining,excuses and blaming others. So we have that going for us.

You're doing a great job of complaining, blaming, and making excuses for the current situation yourself ;). Planning has nothing to do with getting a dire illness when young, unemployed etc.



lifestyle choices don't affect your risk of illness or disease? And financial planning can't help with medical costs? I think we will agree to disagree on those points.

Lifestyle choices can affect your risk or illness or disease. But that doesn't mean you will get a particular illness or disease. Or that a person who lives like a monk won't get lung cancer or something.

Financial planning can help with medical costs - assuming you're lucky enough to earn enough to be able to make meaningful plans.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: DrQue on October 16, 2018, 04:15:05 PM
Healthcare is in need of major reform in the US. The fact that medical bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the wealthiest nation on earth is crazy. Its a hard question with no easy answers. 


And yet, people in large numbers do nothing about things they can largely control to lower risks and potential costs to themselves( ignore nutrition,exercise, and financial planning) and are generally either apathetic or ignorant when it comes to elections and how our government actual functions.
However, Americans are great at complaining,excuses and blaming others. So we have that going for us.

You're doing a great job of complaining, blaming, and making excuses for the current situation yourself ;). Planning has nothing to do with getting a dire illness when young, unemployed etc.



lifestyle choices don't affect your risk of illness or disease? And financial planning can't help with medical costs? I think we will agree to disagree on those points.

I think we can agree that lifestyle and planning are very important. However, even incredibly healthy people contract debilitating diseases or just have plain bad luck. A huge portion of our society (young, low income etc.) also lack the financial means to weather a major storm, regardless of their planning skills.

When I see working class single mothers doing everything they can to raise good children get ravished by a medical bill, it makes me think something is wrong with the system.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on October 16, 2018, 04:49:17 PM
Don't bother trying to explain socialism anything that is labeled by the right as a give away is socialism..so one more time for the dense:

"a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

Ooh, such a sugarcoated leftist definition....Where did you get that, from leftist academia? Socialism is utopian nonsense. There's a difference from PUBLIC SERVICES to a full blown socialist government...Alot of Latin America runs on socialism (ie Venezuela, Nicaragua etc) How is it working out for them, or any other country in the world?  This is my definition...

Quote
Socialism has its roots in visions of imaginary ideal societies, from thinkers who drew up elaborated designs and concepts for creating what they considered a more equal society, along collectivist lines or abolished private property; the primarily ideas came from British and French thinkers like Saint-Simon, Charles Fourier, Louis Blanc, and Robert Owen preceded by Thomas More, Tommaso Campanella, and Jean Meslier.

One of the atheist Karl Marx's titles is the father of socialism. Currently it is considered a leftist economic system which advocates state ownership or direct control of the major means of production and distribution of goods and services.

Socialism is the economic system imposed by Communism, but another one of the most well known political parties of the 20th century that was socialistic was the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazi Party), headed by the fascist, but anti-communist Adolf Hitler. Often socialism is a matter of degree and numerous economies in the world are very socialistic such as European countries (many of which are facing financial difficulties due to over taxation and excessive spending).
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: sanmarcomatt on October 16, 2018, 04:52:10 PM

I think we can agree that lifestyle and planning are very important. However, even incredibly healthy people contract debilitating diseases or just have plain bad luck. A huge portion of our society (young, low income etc.) also lack the financial means to weather a major storm, regardless of their planning skills.

When I see working class single mothers doing everything they can to raise good children get ravished by a medical bill, it makes me think something is wrong with the system.


Ok, I think we agree more than not but I just get a little disgusted when I think of all the resources that are going toward preventable (based upon lifestyle only) medical issues that could otherwise be directed elsewhere. The numbers are staggering.
I will get off my soapbox now.

Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on October 16, 2018, 05:03:51 PM
Don't bother trying to explain socialism anything that is labeled by the right as a give away is socialism..so one more time for the dense:

"a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

Ooh, such a sugarcoated leftist definition....Where did you get that, from leftist academia? Socialism is utopian nonsense. There's a difference from PUBLIC SERVICES to a full blown socialist government...Alot of Latin America runs on socialism (ie Venezuela, Nicaragua etc) How is it working out for them, or any other country in the world?  This is my definition...

Quote
Socialism has its roots in visions of imaginary ideal societies, from thinkers who drew up elaborated designs and concepts for creating what they considered a more equal society, along collectivist lines or abolished private property; the primarily ideas came from British and French thinkers like Saint-Simon, Charles Fourier, Louis Blanc, and Robert Owen preceded by Thomas More, Tommaso Campanella, and Jean Meslier.

One of the atheist Karl Marx's titles is the father of socialism. Currently it is considered a leftist economic system which advocates state ownership or direct control of the major means of production and distribution of goods and services.

Socialism is the economic system imposed by Communism, but another one of the most well known political parties of the 20th century that was socialistic was the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazi Party), headed by the fascist, but anti-communist Adolf Hitler. Often socialism is a matter of degree and numerous economies in the world are very socialistic such as European countries (many of which are facing financial difficulties due to over taxation and excessive spending).

And universal health coverage is a public service.

As far as your definition of socialism goes, you grabbed that from Conservapedia (and didn't cite it). If you want to be taken seriously, you'll need to get better sources. Andrew Schlafly is batshit crazy. (Seriously - the guy is all about conspiracy theories and is a religious nutter).

There is a difference between a socialist party (or self-proclaimed socialist party) in government and a socialist country. Some would argue that Nicaragua has had socialists in power at various times over the past few decades (and Venezuela's current ruling party describes itself as socialist). But neither Nicaragua or Venezuela are socialist countries, as they are still operating with capitalist ecomonies.

Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on October 16, 2018, 05:19:39 PM
There is a difference between a socialist party (or self-proclaimed socialist party) in government and a socialist country. Some would argue that Nicaragua has had socialists in power at various times over the past few decades (and Venezuela's current ruling party describes itself as socialist). But neither Nicaragua or Venezuela are socialist countries, as they are still operating with capitalist economies.

I'm glad that you said "SOME might say that Venezuela and Nicaragua aren't socialist" They are definitely in the minority, because they are as socialist as it comes... As for the leftists so called "European version of great socialism" a country like Denmark isn't socialist, but runs on "The Nordic model" (market economy). Even the Danish prime minister has to correct US leftists about his country.

Here are the great socialist utopias of the world (past and present)...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states

Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on October 16, 2018, 05:52:48 PM
There is a difference between a socialist party (or self-proclaimed socialist party) in government and a socialist country. Some would argue that Nicaragua has had socialists in power at various times over the past few decades (and Venezuela's current ruling party describes itself as socialist). But neither Nicaragua or Venezuela are socialist countries, as they are still operating with capitalist economies.

I'm glad that you said "SOME might say that Venezuela and Nicaragua aren't socialist" They are definitely in the minority, because they are as socialist as it comes... As for the leftists so called "European version of great socialism" a country like Denmark isn't socialist, but runs on "The Nordic model" (market economy). Even the Danish prime minister has to correct US leftists about his country.

Here are the great socialist utopias of the world (past and present)...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states

That's NOT what I said - try to be a *bit* more clever and not misquote me directly underneath where my actual words are posted. I said this:

Some would argue that Nicaragua has had socialists in power at various times over the past few decades (and Venezuela's current ruling party describes itself as socialist).

And that's true - the ruling parties of both countries describe themselves as 'socialist' parties. But just because there are self-descrinbed socialist parties in power doesn't automatically make the country socialist. Take San Marino for example - it was governed by the Communist Party for many years (during the height of the Cold War), but would never have been considered a communist country. France is another example - it has had socialist governments in power for decades and is a G8/G7 country.

The economies of Nicaragua and Venezuela are capitalist. There are plenty of reasons why Nicaragua is in the shape it is, but Venezuela's current woes are likely due to terrible governance and poor oil prices, more than anything else.

Edit: I find it funny that your link to an article on 'socialist' countries doesn't even list Nicaragua or Venezuela as socialist countries. It actually reinforces what I posted.

You're right - the Nordic Model is capitalist - and the ruling parties of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Iceland are not socialist parties and do not espouse socialism. That's one of the big problems I have with Bernie Sanders - he calls himself a 'democratic socialist' when he is nothing of the sort. He's a social democrat. And a not particularly left wing one at that.

Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: JeffreyS on October 16, 2018, 06:47:38 PM
One guy who position on health care isn't clear vs another guy saying freebies for everybody with socialism! The latter candidate scares the shit of me 100 percent more; socialism in Florida! If he wins, get ready to be the Cali of the East Coast government-wise....Get ready to have astronomical taxes, an open borders state, and becoming a state income tax state....



The Cali of the east coast? Do you mean our property values explode and a giant budget surplus?

Seriously Gillum is not for a state income tax. His Medicare for all position he states would have to be national or with a large conglomeration of stars. His immediate plan would be to accept the federal Medicaid funds to alleviate some of the bills Floridians are being taxed for. 
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on October 16, 2018, 07:22:00 PM
As far as your definition of socialism goes, you grabbed that from Conservapedia (and didn't cite it). If you want to be taken seriously, you'll need to get better sources. Andrew Schlafly is batshit crazy. (Seriously - the guy is all about conspiracy theories and is a religious nutter).

Yup, it was a conservapedia posting. I actually agree with you, Schlafly is way out there on the super right wing evangelical conservative side. I just happen to think that his take on socialism is very fitting. You can actually agree with someone on a point, and not emulate their entire lifestyle you know.

The one dimensionality is that EVERYTHING a person does is evil; just like leftists saying Trump is a racist buffoon that cant do anything right, even though unemployment for blacks, Hispanics, and Asians are at an all time low, and we got better trade negotiations with countries like Canada, Mexico, and South Korea.

I thought that most the Obama presidency was a joke and racial division was at an all time high in my lifetime under his national divisiveness (and I voted for him twice) but for me to say "everything he did was a failure" wouldn't be honest. The one dimensionality propaganda saying that everyone you disagree with is a 'worthless evil person that gets nothing wrong" is complete BS.     
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on October 16, 2018, 07:37:37 PM
The Cali of the east coast? Do you mean our property values explode and a giant budget surplus?

Seriously Gillum is not for a state income tax. His Medicare for all position he states would have to be national or with a large conglomeration of stars. His immediate plan would be to accept the federal Medicaid funds to alleviate some of the bills Floridians are being taxed for. 

Yup, Cali has a surplus and is wealthy due mainly to Hollywood, Silicon Valley, and agriculture. What about their middle class? Yeah they are relocating to more sane political states like TX, AZ, and even OR (which is liberal, but not Cali crazy liberal yet). What about the endless welcomed migration from the Third World? What about the sprawling urban tent cities? Yeah, I like FL the way it is compared to some socialist infiltration.

Just because we (me and Gillum) both have melanin in our skins, I'm not gonna be some tribalistic person and vote against my values. Any socialist (and basically any Democrat these days, because they are so so leftist) is a nogo for me. The Dems used to actually be votable to centrists, now their wedge issue mania, and screaming protesters with pink hats, and Antifa have caused many to abandon the Dems. Look at #walkaway? Alot of people.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on October 16, 2018, 08:24:10 PM
But neither Nicaragua or Venezuela are socialist countries, as they are still operating with capitalist economies.

That's what I was responding to.

Edit: I find it funny that your link to an article on 'socialist' countries doesn't even list Nicaragua or Venezuela as socialist countries. It actually reinforces what I posted.

Look again! Those two countries are listed under the "Multi-party states with governing Socialist Parties" section. I dunno what else they gotta do for you to believe those countries are socialist (obvious failures aside). Some of the party titles even have "socialist" in the name.  It's funny that some leftist people and publications were praising Venezuela as some model that the US should follow, when things were better with Chavez handing out microwaves. Maduro just continued Chavez's policies after his death.

Socialism always start off good, but then comes reality and then the money runs out. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states

Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on October 17, 2018, 01:59:27 AM
But neither Nicaragua or Venezuela are socialist countries, as they are still operating with capitalist economies.

That's what I was responding to.

Edit: I find it funny that your link to an article on 'socialist' countries doesn't even list Nicaragua or Venezuela as socialist countries. It actually reinforces what I posted.

Look again! Those two countries are listed under the "Multi-party states with governing Socialist Parties" section. I dunno what else they gotta do for you to believe those countries are socialist (obvious failures aside). Some of the party titles even have "socialist" in the name.  It's funny that some leftist people and publications were praising Venezuela as some model that the US should follow, when things were better with Chavez handing out microwaves. Maduro just continued Chavez's policies after his death.

Socialism always start off good, but then comes reality and then the money runs out. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states

Dude, it's like you're not even reading my posts. I said:

Quote
And that's true - the ruling parties of both countries describe themselves as 'socialist' parties. But just because there are self-descrinbed socialist parties in power doesn't automatically make the country socialist. Take San Marino for example - it was governed by the Communist Party for many years (during the height of the Cold War), but would never have been considered a communist country. France is another example - it has had socialist governments in power for decades and is a G8/G7 country.

The economies of Nicaragua and Venezuela are capitalist. There are plenty of reasons why Nicaragua is in the shape it is, but Venezuela's current woes are likely due to terrible governance and poor oil prices, more than anything else.

Which is why I said it was funny that your link supported what I had been posting (more than once - this is third time). Nicaragua and Venezuela may have governing socialist parties, but the countries are not socialist, as their economies are capitalist.

Re: Conservapedia. I'd agree with you if it weren't for the fact that the site is intentionally biased. They don't try to write neutral and factual articles - they have an open 'conservative' bias (I put it in quotes because a lot of conservatives wouldn't agree with the stuff on that site). With regard to that particular definition, it repeats the debunked 'Nazism is socialism' trope, amongst other things.

Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on October 17, 2018, 02:02:06 AM
Anyway - back to the topic. I don't think Gillum is going to use healthcare as a ploy to create the Peoples' Republic of Florida if he wins the election.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: JeffreyS on October 17, 2018, 02:14:11 PM
Also on topic are we going to keep letting politicians avoid giving real answers on things as big as healthcare until after or just before elections.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: sanmarcomatt on October 17, 2018, 03:34:25 PM
Anyway - back to the topic. I don't think Gillum is going to use healthcare as a ploy to create the Peoples' Republic of Florida if he wins the election.
Considering his Mayoral activities,  I think he should come up with a program pushing discounts for health services for people that "pay cash".  Perhaps LaunderCare?
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on October 17, 2018, 05:12:07 PM
Anyway - back to the topic. I don't think Gillum is going to use healthcare as a ploy to create the Peoples' Republic of Florida if he wins the election.
Considering his Mayoral activities,  I think he should come up with a program pushing discounts for health services for people that "pay cash".  Perhaps LaunderCare?

Funny, though I suspect not a very good way to launder money.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on October 19, 2018, 10:17:03 PM
Looks like the FL House and Senate races are pretty much neck and neck (according to these unreliable mostly leftist bias polls anyway)! Not too long ago, many had Gillum as a shoe-in for governor, not so fast! It's pretty much damn near a done deal that the Republicans will hold on to the Senate (esp with the McCaskill debacle). Concerning the House, who knows!

https://www.news4jax.com/news/politics/governor-candidates-campaigning-in-jacksonville?__vfz=rtw_top_pages%3D3061700005532
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: bl8jaxnative on October 20, 2018, 03:47:12 PM

Well, I learned something new today.  There is something people deny that's even more outrageous than denying climate change, it's denying that Venezuela is socialism. 


Wow.  Holy shit.  This is crazy times.   At least I now have a chance to cash in on some bridges AND I know who's going to buy them.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on October 20, 2018, 05:31:22 PM

Well, I learned something new today.  There is something people deny that's even more outrageous than denying climate change, it's denying that Venezuela is socialism. 


Wow.  Holy shit.  This is crazy times.   At least I now have a chance to cash in on some bridges AND I know who's going to buy them.

Perhaps, instead of pithy responses, you should just pick up a book. Socialism isn't whatever Glenn Beck or Alex Jones or Rush Limbaugh or whoever decide it is.

The relations of production are unchanged in Venezuela - it is still clearly operating within the capitalist mode of production. Yes, the ruling party describes itself as socialist and yes, they tinker with the economy and some industries are nationalised. But that doesn't make it a socialist economy - it makes it a mixed market economy.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: copperfiend on October 22, 2018, 08:19:19 AM
I wonder how many people watched that debate performance by DeSantis last night and still feel comfortable in voting for him?

I am trying to remember a more awkward, unsure person running for major office.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: marcuscnelson on October 22, 2018, 11:52:21 AM
I wonder how many people watched that debate performance by DeSantis last night and still feel comfortable in voting for him?

I am trying to remember a more awkward, unsure person running for major office.

I was blown away by DeSantis last night. I don't understand how someone so blatantly and utterly unqualified could stand on a stage and make it so obvious that they just didn't know what to do other than insult his opponent and completely avoid the questions.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: JeffreyS on October 22, 2018, 12:05:21 PM
DeSantis really just didn’t give his position on anything. He didn’t refuse he would just give a response like well this person or group likes me, Gillum is bad or in some other way deflect. That said he was good at the technique it usually didn’t appear awkward. They were both good at debating and likely didn’t lose any points from their support.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: avonjax on October 23, 2018, 04:46:09 PM
One guy who position on health care isn't clear vs another guy saying freebies for everybody with socialism! The latter candidate scares the shit of me 100 percent more; socialism in Florida! If he wins, get ready to be the Cali of the East Coast government-wise....Get ready to have astronomical taxes, an open borders state, and becoming a state income tax state....



That was a stupid comment. How surprising from you. Where is Stephen D when we need him.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: avonjax on October 23, 2018, 04:54:00 PM
Don't bother trying to explain socialism anything that is labeled by the right as a give away is socialism..so one more time for the dense:

"a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

Ooh, such a sugarcoated leftist definition....Where did you get that, from leftist academia? Socialism is utopian nonsense. There's a difference from PUBLIC SERVICES to a full blown socialist government...Alot of Latin America runs on socialism (ie Venezuela, Nicaragua etc) How is it working out for them, or any other country in the world?  This is my definition...

Quote
Socialism has its roots in visions of imaginary ideal societies, from thinkers who drew up elaborated designs and concepts for creating what they considered a more equal society, along collectivist lines or abolished private property; the primarily ideas came from British and French thinkers like Saint-Simon, Charles Fourier, Louis Blanc, and Robert Owen preceded by Thomas More, Tommaso Campanella, and Jean Meslier.

One of the atheist Karl Marx's titles is the father of socialism. Currently it is considered a leftist economic system which advocates state ownership or direct control of the major means of production and distribution of goods and services.

Socialism is the economic system imposed by Communism, but another one of the most well known political parties of the 20th century that was socialistic was the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazi Party), headed by the fascist, but anti-communist Adolf Hitler. Often socialism is a matter of degree and numerous economies in the world are very socialistic such as European countries (many of which are facing financial difficulties due to over taxation and excessive spending).

Then I say abolish public schools, fire departments, police departments, the public library, military, ss, medicare and anything paid with our tax dollar and what the hell just become a 3rd world country and let everyone old die if they are old or infirmed. And then all your right wingers can just pave your own damn roads, put out your fires, shoot anyone you assume is an intruder or about to rape, rob or look at you the wrong way and have fun with whatever is left. trump is the perfect president for you. He doesn't give a s*&t about any of us any way.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on October 23, 2018, 05:59:13 PM
^^^LOL, suffering from TDS? Public services are necessary for a civil society; please stop muddying the waters between public services and socialism. If 45 don't care about any of us, than 44 really despised ALL Americans. One prez tries to maintain a country with borders, and the other one mastered 'catch and release'. 44 divided everyone in the country with wedge issues; Black vs White, middle class vs poor, Christianity vs Islam, civilians vs the police etc etc etc.

Trump maybe dividing Americans from illegal aliens (rightfully so, going by the books) while Obama was dividing all Americans period!!! Blacks and whites were like fucking kumbaya under George Bush, George freaking Bush (who I hate)!! Then 44 got in there, and it was like the 1960's all over again! Riots, poor race relations, BLM, Antifa, police villainization, criminal infantilization, all under our great former prez BHO. 
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on October 23, 2018, 06:29:49 PM
^^^LOL, suffering from TDS? Public services are necessary for a civil society; please stop muddying the waters between public services and socialism. If 45 don't care about any of us, than 44 really despised ALL Americans. One prez tries to maintain a country with borders, and the other one mastered 'catch and release'. 44 divided everyone in the country with wedge issues; Black vs White, middle class vs poor, Christianity vs Islam, civilians vs the police etc etc etc.

Trump maybe dividing Americans from illegal aliens (rightfully so, going by the books) while Obama was dividing all Americans period!!! Blacks and whites were like fucking kumbaya under George Bush, George freaking Bush (who I hate)!! Then 44 got in there, and it was like the 1960's all over again! Riots, poor race relations, BLM, Antifa, police villainization, criminal infantilization, all under our great former prez BHO.

I'm no Obama fan, but it's worth noting that he stepped up deportations - he was called the 'Deporter in Chief' by immigrants' rights groups and other critics.

Feel free to hate on Obama for whatever reasons, but don't make stuff up out of whole cloth.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/08/trump-deportations-behind-obama-levels-241420
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on October 23, 2018, 06:55:32 PM
^^^I'm not denying Obama's deportation record, but he maintained the catch and release system. IMO the difference between Obama's and Trump's presidency concerning on what they dealt/are dealing with illegal immigration; Obama had to deal with mainly human traffickers, and Trump has to deal with the human traffickers and globalist NGOs like the Soros foundations, who I think are organizing caravans, like the one that's coming from Central America.

The hardline left and their globalist aspirations have gotten more radical under Trump too. When Obama actually did his job and deported aliens, it was overlooked for the very Obama friendly MSM; when Trump does it, the media says 'muh rayciss orange man!!".     
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Snufflee on October 24, 2018, 11:08:49 AM
^^^I'm not denying Obama's deportation record, but he maintained the catch and release system. IMO the difference between Obama's and Trump's presidency concerning on what they dealt/are dealing with illegal immigration; Obama had to deal with mainly human traffickers, and Trump has to deal with the human traffickers and globalist NGOs like the Soros foundations, who I think are organizing caravans, like the one that's coming from Central America.

The hardline left and their globalist aspirations have gotten more radical under Trump too. When Obama actually did his job and deported aliens, it was overlooked for the very Obama friendly MSM; when Trump does it, the media says 'muh rayciss orange man!!".   

I think the tin foil hat has finally ruined cognizant thought.,
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on October 25, 2018, 02:40:49 AM
^^^Okay, concerning the caravan, many of them are being trucked and paid. Do your research. That tiresome "Muh right wing conspiracy" main steam media BS doesn't hold any weight. Explain the money being passed out?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KspFTWt7SZ0
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: JeffreyS on October 25, 2018, 11:05:08 AM
^^^Okay, concerning the caravan, many of them are being trucked and paid. Do your research. That tiresome "Muh right wing conspiracy" main steam media BS doesn't hold any weight. Explain the money being passed out?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KspFTWt7SZ0

It's food vouchers being passed out at a relief point. Dude seriously... they are being organized but it is by violence and despair in their home land pushing them as a group.  These are people just trying to work their way into a better life or hell just being able to literally live life.  Stop vilifying them it's immoral and ridiculous.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on October 26, 2018, 12:24:49 AM
^^^The only thing that I'm 'vilifying' are these NGOs pushing illegal immigration upon the US. How do you think boats filled with migrants crossing the Mediterranean into Italy (and now other places) are done? Some fucking grassroots effort on behalf of the migrants? NO, billion dollar globalist NGOs financing boats equipment etc; lets not be naive here...

Do you know EVERY individual of the thousands and thousands of aliens within that caravan? Yeah, that's what I thought....Do you even care, or illegal aliens should have more consideration over US citizens? I'm not gonna be passive and have no concerns with a bunch of people pouring into our country and I don't know where they came from, and what they are about.

That being said, I'm all for migrants coming into port of entry and seeking asylum, but this group is seeming an invasion. Do you know that most of the group within the caravan are fighting age men, not women and children? Do you know that there are some criminal element (and maybe even terrorist) within the caravan? This is Honduras we are talking about, one of the most volatile countries in the world!

So I'm not trying to hear that "all of those people are innocent, and just want a better place to live" NPC BS; tell that to an overly sympathetic brainwashed liberal. It's amazing that twenty years ago, everyone had some sort of sense concerning illegal immigration.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on October 26, 2018, 05:41:35 AM
^^^The only thing that I'm 'vilifying' are these NGOs pushing illegal immigration upon the US. How do you think boats filled with migrants crossing the Mediterranean into Italy (and now other places) are done? Some fucking grassroots effort on behalf of the migrants? NO, billion dollar globalist NGOs financing boats equipment etc; lets not be naive here...

Do you know EVERY individual of the thousands and thousands of aliens within that caravan? Yeah, that's what I thought....Do you even care, or illegal aliens should have more consideration over US citizens? I'm not gonna be passive and have no concerns with a bunch of people pouring into our country and I don't know where they came from, and what they are about.

That being said, I'm all for migrants coming into port of entry and seeking asylum, but this group is seeming an invasion. Do you know that most of the group within the caravan are fighting age men, not women and children? Do you know that there are some criminal element (and maybe even terrorist) within the caravan? This is Honduras we are talking about, one of the most volatile countries in the world!

So I'm not trying to hear that "all of those people are innocent, and just want a better place to live" NPC BS; tell that to an overly sympathetic brainwashed liberal. It's amazing that twenty years ago, everyone had some sort of sense concerning illegal immigration.

You do realise that the people crossing the Med are being transported by people traffickers, not NGOs, right? The NGOs are there to help them so they don't die at sea (and to help them when they arrive in Malta, Italy, etc).

I don't know what it is about you, I-10. "Muh conspiracy theory, lamestream media, muh George Soros socialism..."
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on October 26, 2018, 05:46:59 AM
Quote
A row raging over the migrant caravan travelling towards the United States is being fuelled by misinformation and false statements online.

Thousands of migrants have got as far as Mexico, after the caravan which set out from Honduras has travelled north and grown in size.

The caravan's progress towards the US southern border has become the subject of intense speculation and discussion on social media.

A number of false or misleading assertions are among those to be shared widely.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-45951102 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-45951102)
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: DrQue on October 26, 2018, 08:57:39 AM
Gosh, those NGOs have been at this for over a hundred years! The globalists were definitely funneling the poor Irish and Italians into the our homeland. I mean, why else would these people leave their native land? It has to be a leftist plot!

The reality is the migrant issues Europe and America are nothing new. People are simply trying to escape wretched conditions and build a better life for their families. We all would likely do the same if born into similar conditions.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on November 01, 2018, 06:16:20 AM
^^^Look at these shipping routes guys. If you all are waiting for the liberal MSM to reveal this, hell will have frozen over. It's not what the liberal MSM says, it's what they DO NOT say... Muh it's not MSNBC so these other rayciss sites are nazis...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbIc1LZqIAw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWp_SDJh3pM&t=628s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnifiUMPHGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feGXIK--OdM
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on November 01, 2018, 07:36:05 AM
^^^Look at these shipping routes guys. If you all are waiting for the liberal MSM to reveal this, hell will have frozen over. It's not what the liberal MSM says, it's what they DO NOT say... Muh it's not MSNBC so these other rayciss sites are nazis...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbIc1LZqIAw
https://gefira.org/en/2016/12/04/ngos-are-smuggling-immigrants-into-europe-on-an-industrial-scale/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWp_SDJh3pM&t=628s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnifiUMPHGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feGXIK--OdM

You post a link to an article published by Gefira and then actually try to argue that your links aren't racist?

You're one of a kind, I-10.

In any event, I see a lot of accusations on those links and precious little in the way of evidence. Again, the simplest answer is usually the correct one. A bunch of people have been fleeing war and poverty. It's no surprise, given how unsettled the region has been for a number of years now.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Tacachale on November 01, 2018, 10:26:47 AM
We really need to get our forum rules up. One of them should definitely be posting no defamatory, deceitful, or otherwise trash links. This isn't the place for that.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Charles Hunter on November 01, 2018, 10:41:58 AM
We really need to get our forum rules up. One of them should definitely be posting no defamatory, deceitful, or otherwise trash links. This isn't the place for that.
Great idea.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: MusicMan on November 01, 2018, 04:37:07 PM
"In any event, I see a lot of accusations on those links and precious little in the way of evidence."

Taking their cue from The Orange One.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on November 02, 2018, 03:19:19 AM
You post a link to an article published by Gefira and then actually try to argue that your links aren't racist?

This what Gefira is..."The Gefira Foundation is a part of the Pan-European think-tank focused on current geopolitical and financial instabilities".

This 'racist' talk is just to shut all debate and reasoning up and censor...The point why I posted the link was to the whistleblowing of the NGOs shipping routes, NOT because I'm some hardline white nationalist synthesizer or something. Do you think the Open Society Foundation, or some buillshit leftist organization will expose NGO shipping routes? No.

I am a freelancer when it comes to websites that are useful; From anything from the HuffPo to the Drudge Report.  You asked for proof of NGO shipping routes across the Mediterranean, and I provided it.  You cant debate what I posted, so cut off all talk by 'muh rayciss".
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on November 02, 2018, 03:37:16 AM
You post a link to an article published by Gefira and then actually try to argue that your links aren't racist?

This what Gefira is..."The Gefira Foundation is a part of the Pan-European think-tank focused on current geopolitical and financial instabilities".

This 'racist' talk is just to shut all debate and reasoning up and censor...The point why I posted the link was to the whistleblowing of the NGOs shipping routes, NOT because I'm some hardline white nationalist synthesizer or something. Do you think the Open Society Foundation, or some buillshit leftist organization will expose NGO shipping routes? No.

I am a freelancer when it comes to websites that are useful; From anything from the HuffPo to the Drudge Report.  You asked for proof of NGO shipping routes across the Mediterranean, and I provided it.  You cant debate what I posted, so cut off all talk by 'muh rayciss".


Wait...are you telling me that Gefira don't label themselve as racist? Wow. I guess you're right.

Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on November 02, 2018, 03:40:02 AM
The current left are the new pearl clutching 80's evangelical conservatives when it comes to moralism.  It used to be "Jesus this, Jesus that; you're going to hell for being gay" Now it's "racism, sexism, homophobia, bigot, Islamophobia" etc etc etc. Now facts are racist, we have 140 different genders, and an ice cream company is WOKE with socialist politics...
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on November 02, 2018, 03:43:33 AM
Wait...are you telling me that Gefira don't label themselve as racist? Wow. I guess you're right.

Did that link show Jim Crow lynchings, Japanese interment camps, and Holocaust deaths? Stay on your typical moralist tirade, because that's all that you leftist have for shutting down debate...
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on November 02, 2018, 05:45:52 AM
Wait...are you telling me that Gefira don't label themselve as racist? Wow. I guess you're right.

Did that link show Jim Crow lynchings, Japanese interment camps, and Holocaust deaths? Stay on your typical moralist tirade, because that's all that you leftist have for shutting down debate...

So, in order for the organisation to be racist, their links have to explicitly show "Jim Crow lynchings, Japanese interment camps, and Holocaust deaths?"

Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on November 02, 2018, 07:33:32 AM
Regarding the NGOs and migrants or refugees. As you will note from the videos, none of the ships that are being tracked travel into port in Libya. This is because they are picking up migrants in the Mediterranean sea - refugees who are in un-seaworthy vessels.

They have run into criticism for sometimes picking up migrants inside Libyan territorial waters. This is because they are concerned with rescuing people in peril, not political issues. They have also been criticised for not handing over the people they rescue to the Libyan coast guard. But they openly admit that they won't do this, as the coast guard has been known to abuse migrants that are handed over to them. In fact, a judge has even ruled that this practice is acceptable, as the fundamental rights of the migrants could not be guaranteed in Libya.

There is an issue with people smugglers basically taking advantage of the presence of NGOs. They know they can basically throw a bunch of people into a dangerously overcrowded dinghy or raft or something and the people might get picked up and rescued if they run into trouble. Of course, this doesn't always happened - as the high death toll indicates.

The problem to solve is how to rescue people who are in danger without unintentionally creating an environment that favours people traffickers.

There isn't a conspiracy here. This is just the unfortunate result of war and poverty. A lot of which is partly the responsibility of the USA and UK.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on November 02, 2018, 11:19:04 AM
So, in order for the organisation to be racist, their links have to explicitly show "Jim Crow lynchings, Japanese interment camps, and Holocaust deaths?"

Well that's the way that you responded, like you saw something horrific. If a Pan-African organization was highlighting all of the Chinese colonialism that's currently taking place within that continent, it would be okay with you. What I posted just showed a very bad problem in Europe; a multitude of unassimilable and unemployable people pouring in Western Europe VIA NGOs and the EU itself.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on November 02, 2018, 11:31:05 AM
So, in order for the organisation to be racist, their links have to explicitly show "Jim Crow lynchings, Japanese interment camps, and Holocaust deaths?"

Well that's the way that you responded, like you saw something horrific. If a Pan-African organization was highlighting all of the Chinese colonialism that's currently taking place within that continent, it would be okay with you. What I posted just showed a very bad problem in Europe; a multitude of unassimilable and unemployable people pouring in Western Europe VIA NGOs and the EU itself.

This "problem" is only a problem for keyboard warriors like yourself and racist white people who haunt the fringes of "European" politics. I find it astounding that you have such strong opinions about a group of people you've never met in an area of the world that you've never visited and have no functional relationship with.

Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on November 02, 2018, 11:48:05 AM
^^^You know when someone have no legitimate response in a debate when you try to shut down all conversion. You are like a liberal gatekeeper. Muh, you haven't been there before; muh way to racist (even though there is no racist imagery). You care about people south of the Mediterranean; your 'problem' is that you don't care about people north of it having acid thrown on them, raped, and being knifed up (not all people of European descent BTW). You don't care about the unsustainability of the EU. 
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on November 02, 2018, 11:53:12 AM
^^^You know when someone have no legitimate response in a debate when you try to shut down all conversion. You are like a liberal gatekeeper. Muh, you haven't been there before; muh way to racist (even though there is no racist imagery). You care about people south of the Mediterranean; your 'problem' is that you don't care about people north of it having acid thrown on them, raped, and being knifed up (not all people of European descent BTW). You don't care about the unsustainability of the EU.

I live north of the Med. So...your point?

I also voted to remain in the EU, in spite of my reservations about it. And you obviously know nothing of Gefira - because you contend that they can only be a racist organisation if they post 'racist imagery'.

Most of the knife crime and acid attacks are not perpetrated by migrants. Though I guess some of them are committed by black people - so I suppose that means you're a criminal, too.

And cool it with the 'muh'.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on November 02, 2018, 12:06:26 PM
^^Okay, I'll cool it with "muh' only if you cool it with a video showing NGO migration being the equivalent of the KKK website or the Daily Stormer. Where else in the hell am I supposed to expose illegal migration, your beloved BBC?? Sorry for not bringing up a site that's totally controlled by some European govt, or some multi-national leftist conglomerate...
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: JeffreyS on November 02, 2018, 12:16:29 PM
They are refugees hoping  to make a new home in the USA. America  like other wealthy western countries is aging but we have a big blessing from God that a young work force can just walk here.  Embrace that!  It is a serious advantage that we can just scoop up Other countries citizens and make them our own. They are even the same religion.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on November 02, 2018, 12:21:27 PM
^^Okay, I'll cool it with "muh' only if you cool it with a video showing NGO migration being the equivalent of the KKK website or the Daily Stormer. Where else in the hell am I supposed to expose illegal migration, your beloved BBC?? Sorry for not bringing up a site that's totally controlled by some European govt, or some multi-national leftist conglomerate...

Gefira are a racist, anti-immigrant organisation that deliberately spreads lies and conspiracy theories in order to inflame public opinion and further its European identitarian agenda.

I have explained the videos. But you've not commented on that.
Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: I-10east on November 02, 2018, 12:30:17 PM
^^^All I saw was a site that showed NGO migration; you continue to virtue signal about that. I deleted the link to the main website (for the snowflakes as you said) but I still got the youtube vid showing migration. Maybe you will sleep better at night, and quit vouching for censorship. Eventually you'll get over it.

Title: Re: DeSantis still no position on Healthcare with 3 weeks to go.
Post by: Adam White on November 02, 2018, 12:32:38 PM
^^^All I saw was a site that showed NGO migration; you continue to virtue signal about that. I deleted the link to the main website (for the snowflakes as you said) but I still got the youtube vid showing migration. Maybe you will sleep better at night, and quit vouching for censorship. Eventually you'll get over it.

I posted this:

Quote
Regarding the NGOs and migrants or refugees. As you will note from the videos, none of the ships that are being tracked travel into port in Libya. This is because they are picking up migrants in the Mediterranean sea - refugees who are in un-seaworthy vessels.

They have run into criticism for sometimes picking up migrants inside Libyan territorial waters. This is because they are concerned with rescuing people in peril, not political issues. They have also been criticised for not handing over the people they rescue to the Libyan coast guard. But they openly admit that they won't do this, as the coast guard has been known to abuse migrants that are handed over to them. In fact, a judge has even ruled that this practice is acceptable, as the fundamental rights of the migrants could not be guaranteed in Libya.

There is an issue with people smugglers basically taking advantage of the presence of NGOs. They know they can basically throw a bunch of people into a dangerously overcrowded dinghy or raft or something and the people might get picked up and rescued if they run into trouble. Of course, this doesn't always happened - as the high death toll indicates.

The problem to solve is how to rescue people who are in danger without unintentionally creating an environment that favours people traffickers.

There isn't a conspiracy here. This is just the unfortunate result of war and poverty. A lot of which is partly the responsibility of the USA and UK.

The videos are from Gefira. Gefira is a racist organisation, regardless. But I have addressed the content of the videos (above).