The Jaxson

Community => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure => Topic started by: thelakelander on June 25, 2018, 12:41:28 PM

Title: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on June 25, 2018, 12:41:28 PM
Good news for Jax. Brightline's success and continued expansion is our best chance for fixed rail connectivity  locally.

https://www.moderncities.com/article/2018-jun-high-speed-rail-plans-from-orlando-to-tampa-underway
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Tacachale on June 25, 2018, 12:48:58 PM
Pretty cool. I wonder where the station in Tampa would be. I'm still worried that if they come to Jax, they'll skip the Prime Osborn for another station of their own somewhere less impactful.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: KenFSU on June 25, 2018, 12:52:02 PM
^I hope not.

The JTA actually just invited a panel of experts from the Urban Land Institute to spend a week downtown in order to make recommendations for revitalizing our downtown.

Their number one recommendation was bringing a train station back downtown.

Quote
"Press whoever you have to press to get that to happen," he said, calling that step a "game changer."

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/06/25/national-experts-how-to-fix-downtown-jacksonville.html
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on June 25, 2018, 12:57:50 PM
I'm a lot more confident in Brightline to plan, invest and implement quality transit service and market rate development over JTA, COJ or any other local public agency. It should be obvious by now what their development strategy and track record is.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Tacachale on June 25, 2018, 01:06:25 PM
I'm a lot more confident in Brightline to plan, invest and implement quality transit service and market rate development over JTA, COJ or any other local public agency. It should be obvious by now what their development strategy and track record is.

Yes - all new stations, including one at an airport. That's what worries me.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on June 25, 2018, 01:27:16 PM
Look at the context. There were no old stations intact to reuse along the FEC in Miami, FTL and WPB. Using Orlando's station on the Sunrail line makes no sense either. Nevertheless, the Miami station is the exact location of the historic station that was razed decades ago.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Kerry on July 03, 2018, 12:49:22 PM
Brightline isn't in the business of building train stations.  They are in the office/retail/residential business.  The train just connects their developments.  This strategy was pioneered in Japan byHanku Railway.  If something like Jacksonville Terminal was available they would for sure use it, but they are going to want development rights for all the surrounding land (and probably the convention center parking lot).  It wouldn't surprise me if Brightline was the one buying up Brooklyn.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: FlaBoy on July 03, 2018, 01:13:00 PM
Look at the context. There were no old stations intact to reuse along the FEC in Miami, FTL and WPB. Using Orlando's station on the Sunrail line makes no sense either. Nevertheless, the Miami station is the exact location of the historic station that was razed decades ago.

I think they would either want to reuse the Prime Osborne with the JTA Center there and potentially the return of Amtrack. The one thing that could put them in a different location could be difficulties with getting over the river with the CSX Bridge. Everything else lines up for the type of project they would want with the infrastructure already there to make it happen. They certainly aren't going to the airport and there isn't a great suburban location.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Kerry on July 03, 2018, 01:42:43 PM
CSX doesn't own the rail bridge over the river.  That is FEC.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on July 03, 2018, 01:53:14 PM
Brightline already has rights to run their service on the FEC into Jax. The FEC is that bridge and the track running past the Prime Osborn. CSX isn't a factor.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Steve on July 03, 2018, 02:13:02 PM
I think it will be harder to get Amtrak back downtown vs. Brightline. As Kerry/lake pointed out, the bridge is FECs so using it for Brightline shouldn't be an issue.

Amtrak might be harder as it uses (at least today) the CSX lines. It's sort of an awkward turn to get the train over to the old train station and I believe the tracks have been reconstructed since the 1960s. It's certainly not impossible, but I can see Amtrak wanting COJ or someone else to pay for any track adjustments (which I think the city should).
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: acme54321 on July 03, 2018, 02:19:16 PM
The tracks are all still there.  On it's current alignment Amtrak would have to go a tiny bit out of the way to get to the Prime Osbourne and then backtrack to the westbound CSX tracks.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Kerry on July 03, 2018, 05:41:05 PM
I think it will be harder to get Amtrak back downtown vs. Brightline. As Kerry/lake pointed out, the bridge is FECs so using it for Brightline shouldn't be an issue.

Amtrak might be harder as it uses (at least today) the CSX lines. It's sort of an awkward turn to get the train over to the old train station and I believe the tracks have been reconstructed since the 1960s. It's certainly not impossible, but I can see Amtrak wanting COJ or someone else to pay for any track adjustments (which I think the city should).

I would be in favor of the City paying also and using funds from the Bed Tax to do it.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on July 03, 2018, 08:39:28 PM
The tracks are all still there.  On it's current alignment Amtrak would have to go a tiny bit out of the way to get to the Prime Osbourne and then backtrack to the westbound CSX tracks.
Not all the track. The old track from the terminal to head south down the CSX A line was pulled up years ago.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: acme54321 on July 03, 2018, 08:55:50 PM
The tracks are all still there.  On it's current alignment Amtrak would have to go a tiny bit out of the way to get to the Prime Osbourne and then backtrack to the westbound CSX tracks.
Not all the track. The old track from the terminal to head south down the CSX A line was pulled up years ago.

Yeah but they could just reverse past it and then head straight down.  Otherwise they'd have to turn the train around. 
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: MusicMan on July 06, 2018, 08:03:42 PM
I spent the last few days in So Fla. Caught a game at the gorgeous Marlins stadium, had a nice visit to my old stomping grounds, Univ of Miami, and had the chance to ride Brightline from Ft Lauderdale up to WPB and back. It was awesome.  Reminds me of Europe. The trains are 100% American made, and quiet and comfortable. The traffic down there can be maddening and if there is any type of accident then all plans are off. Brightline really enhances quality of life for the folks. You can easily UBER, LYFT,  or walk or rent a bike if you like right at the station. These guys are definitely going to make it work, and they will be looking at routes all over the country.  Also WPB has become a great walkable downtown. Makes Jax look so stale. The new Restoration Hardware Showroom was something else, and a great little restaurant on the top floor was stunning. 

I've been gone from So Fla for 12 years. This trip back was the first time i thought, 'Damn I could live here again.'
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Kiva on July 06, 2018, 08:40:48 PM
But if Brightline expands to Jacksonville we will be closer to Miami and Orlando by train than by plane (once you include check in time).
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: MusicMan on July 07, 2018, 10:33:35 AM
Jacksonville is pretty far down on the cities to be connected to, as I understand it. WPB to Orlando and Orlando to Tampa will come first.

But the point you are making is correct. Brightline is analyzing routes where it is "too long to drive and too short to fly."  Dallas to Houston, Atlanta to Charlotte, these types of routes, with large metro areas already doing lots of commuter business.  There were several others that I heard about.  Brightline offers high speed internet on board as well, so you can definitely work while traveling.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on July 07, 2018, 12:41:42 PM
Jax isn't far down the list. The original plan is Miami to Orlando, which is under construction now. Tampa and Jax have always been mentioned as the next phases. The far down the list stuff is the out-of-state concepts. The time is now for Jax to be getting its transportation house in order.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: ProjectMaximus on July 07, 2018, 03:52:14 PM
Jacksonville is pretty far down on the cities to be connected to, as I understand it. WPB to Orlando and Orlando to Tampa will come first.

But the point you are making is correct. Brightline is analyzing routes where it is "too long to drive and too short to fly."  Dallas to Houston, Atlanta to Charlotte, these types of routes, with large metro areas already doing lots of commuter business.  There were several others that I heard about.  Brightline offers high speed internet on board as well, so you can definitely work while traveling.

MM you read this site don't ya?  ;D lol. Jax and Tampa are more or less evenly discussed as the next expansion (if it happens).
As for out-of-state, perhaps it could come to pass but hard to see how they pull it off without owning substantial real estate and ROW already. And Dallas-Houston already has two companies bidding for that route
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: MusicMan on July 08, 2018, 11:47:30 AM
Here is what the Top Dog has said.  Max have you ridden it?  It sure makes going up to WPB from Miami a hell of a lot easier than before.


https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/05/25/fortress-wes-edens-on-brightline-rail-project.html


https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/01/12/brightline-private-rail-opening-to-the-public.html
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: ProjectMaximus on July 08, 2018, 06:36:41 PM
Here is what the Top Dog has said.  Max have you ridden it?  It sure makes going up to WPB from Miami a hell of a lot easier than before.


https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/05/25/fortress-wes-edens-on-brightline-rail-project.html


https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/01/12/brightline-private-rail-opening-to-the-public.html

They created the LLCs for both Tampa and Jax expansion and have had preliminary discussions with the various entities. As for the out-of-state stuff, I wasn't saying they haven't expressed interest, as it has been mentioned on a few occasions already. I was simply expressing my doubt as I believe it would be unlikely. In the videos you shared, Wes seems to emphasize how it was almost a perfect storm for them here in FL.

No sadly I have not been on it. I was hoping to do so for opening weekend but the weekend they chose I was out of town for a wedding. Since then it's been hectic and we had our second child, so it's hard to take the time out for a leisurely trip up to WPB with two boys in tow. Definitely hope to at some point though! I have used Metrorail and trirail about a dozen times now though, for more "essential" travel.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Kiva on July 08, 2018, 06:51:36 PM
I thought I read somewhere that the expansion to Tampa was almost a sure thing. Is that true?
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on July 08, 2018, 09:48:03 PM
It's just as sure as an extension to Jax is. They've said they plan to do both and appear to be doing what they've been stating the last few years.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Kerry on July 10, 2018, 02:01:18 PM
The advantage Jax has is A) The rail already exist, B) They have usage rights on that track already, and C) A historic station already exists.

On the downside Jax doesn't have a substantial population compared to other Florida cities, there isn't much reason for visitors to come here and finally, with no rail connection between JIA and downtown we don't make a good passenger feeder.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on July 10, 2018, 06:43:10 PM
Intercity rail doesn't work the same way airports do. Daytona and St. Augustine, two major tourist destinations would be on a segment to Jax. Those are benefits. Then who says a line has to terminate in Jax? What about an Atlanta to Miami route? In that case, Jax simply becomes a stop on the way. In other words, no need to downplay the validity of a stop in Jax. This is intercity rail we're talking about. Not a metro style subway or LRT.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Steve on July 10, 2018, 07:06:50 PM
The advantage Jax has is A) The rail already exist, B) They have usage rights on that track already, and C) A historic station already exists.

On the downside Jax doesn't have a substantial population compared to other Florida cities, there isn't much reason for visitors to come here and finally, with no rail connection between JIA and downtown we don't make a good passenger feeder.

There are plenty of reasons to come to Jacksonville. A lot of them just aren’t downtown unfortunately.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Kerry on July 11, 2018, 12:57:35 AM
Daytona and St Augustine would definitely be two good stops that would bring visitors from the South but I don't see Jax being a destination.  No one from points south are coming here for theme parks, beaches, shopping, or museums and I doubt anyone from Daytona is going to take a train to Jax only to have to Uber it all over once they are here.  I'm not sure what kind of business travel Jax would generate unless we got a lot more companies from JTB/Baymeadows/Avenues to relocate downtown.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on July 11, 2018, 06:34:39 AM
Jax has 1.5 million people in the MSA. We're not talking about Macon, GA here. We don't have to make a case for or against Jax. Brightline has already stated on multiple occasions that the city on its radar.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Steve on July 11, 2018, 07:57:53 AM
Daytona and St Augustine would definitely be two good stops that would bring visitors from the South but I don't see Jax being a destination.  No one from points south are coming here for theme parks, beaches, shopping, or museums and I doubt anyone from Daytona is going to take a train to Jax only to have to Uber it all over once they are here.  I'm not sure what kind of business travel Jax would generate unless we got a lot more companies from JTB/Baymeadows/Avenues to relocate downtown.

Why would someone not uber? Plus, I’d take it from Jacksonville to Lakeland if it were an option (not sure if a Lakeland stop is planned) versus fighting I-4 through Orlando or going 25 miles around Orlando on 417.

The reverse is true-while I wish we had more people downtown, people would uber from downtown. How fundamentally different is it than an Uber from JIA? Plus, we have about 40k people working between the northbank, southbank, and Brooklyn.

Though, I’m not sure you “want” to get it. It’s much easier to be negative I guess.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on July 11, 2018, 08:35:30 AM
If you're paying Brightline fares, Uber is certainly an option, regardless of what city you're in. What happens with Amtrak is also something that comes into play with Jax. Jax remains the rail gateway into and from Florida. That infrastructure isn't going anywhere any time soon. It's the only major city in the state where this intercity system could be fed intercity rail riders from outside of Florida. Although we tend to jump on JTA from time to time, they're even investing in a multimodal transit hub next to where a potential station would be. So locally, you will have the option to hop on the JTA Flyer or Skyway to access various destinations in the city.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Tacachale on July 11, 2018, 08:41:28 AM
Daytona and St Augustine would definitely be two good stops that would bring visitors from the South but I don't see Jax being a destination.  No one from points south are coming here for theme parks, beaches, shopping, or museums and I doubt anyone from Daytona is going to take a train to Jax only to have to Uber it all over once they are here.  I'm not sure what kind of business travel Jax would generate unless we got a lot more companies from JTB/Baymeadows/Avenues to relocate downtown.

Why would someone not uber? Plus, I’d take it from Jacksonville to Lakeland if it were an option (not sure if a Lakeland stop is planned) versus fighting I-4 through Orlando or going 25 miles around Orlando on 417.

The reverse is true-while I wish we had more people downtown, people would uber from downtown. How fundamentally different is it than an Uber from JIA? Plus, we have about 40k people working between the northbank, southbank, and Brooklyn.

Though, I’m not sure you “want” to get it. It’s much easier to be negative I guess.

People fly into Jax every day who then take Uber, a cab, or a rental car, and the airport’s a lot farther from stuff than the Prime Osborn is. Not sure why this would be different.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Steve on July 11, 2018, 08:46:29 AM
If you're paying Brightline fares, Uber is certainly an option, regardless of what city you're in. What happens with Amtrak is also something that comes into play with Jax. Jax remains the rail gateway into and from Florida. That infrastructure isn't going anywhere any time soon. It's the only major city in the state where this intercity system could be fed intercity rail riders from outside of Florida. Although we tend to jump on JTA from time to time, they're even investing in a multimodal transit hub next to where a potential station would be. So locally, you will have the option to hop on the JTA Flyer or Skyway to access various destinations in the city.

I've looked into Amtrak to get to Lakeland too (At least I could then work on the trip). The problem is that in looking online, the "on-time" rate of the train isn't great and even if it is, the times for the route are terrible. Not really conducive for business travelers. Works fine I guess for retirees looking to not drive somewhere.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on July 11, 2018, 09:26:47 AM
Outside of the auto train, you probably wouldn't need Amtrak south running south of Jax if Brightline were extended to Tampa and Jax.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Lostwave on July 11, 2018, 10:22:51 AM
Daytona and St Augustine would definitely be two good stops that would bring visitors from the South but I don't see Jax being a destination.  No one from points south are coming here for theme parks, beaches, shopping, or museums and I doubt anyone from Daytona is going to take a train to Jax only to have to Uber it all over once they are here.  I'm not sure what kind of business travel Jax would generate unless we got a lot more companies from JTB/Baymeadows/Avenues to relocate downtown.

Maybe people from other parts of Florida wouldn't want to take a train to Jacksonville.  But I know I and a lot of other people would love to be able to take a train from Jacksonville to south Florida, Orlando or Tampa.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: MusicMan on July 12, 2018, 12:58:49 PM
User reviews from South Florida Business Journal:

https://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/news/2018/07/10/from-the-editor-business-commuters-embrace.html
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: itsfantastic1 on July 13, 2018, 03:26:58 PM
Does anyone have any particular insight as to why the Tampa route is being explored prior to the Jax route? I know they have expansion LLCs for both the Tampa and Jax routes, but why does the Tampa one seem to be moving forward and the Jax isn't?

I assume that the revenue is higher for the Tampa route, but wouldn't the cost of all that construction outweigh it when compared to the rail upgrades required for Jax route? On the flip side, could the construction costs be the reason to move forward now? Material prices may increase with tariffs, a potential recession, possibility for the state to do something else in the I-4 median before Brightline builds or loss of interest from the Feds?

I'd love to have a high speed rail go from Miami to Atlanta through Jacksonville, with a side spur to Orlando/Tampa.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Steve on July 13, 2018, 03:49:54 PM
I mean Orlando-Tampa is a lot shorter distance for more people than Jacksonville. It was probably simple as that.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on July 13, 2018, 05:23:07 PM
Tampa takes longer. There's no infrastructure. By the time something is actually running to Tampa, something to Jax could still be happening simultaneously.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on July 13, 2018, 05:28:36 PM
Combine Orlando and Polk with the Bay area (roughly 80 miles) and you'll hit at least 7 million residents and who knows how many tourists. Also I-4 really is becoming a parking lot. So the markets aren't comparable either.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: tufsu1 on July 17, 2018, 10:13:27 AM
^ Never mind the resident population. The visitor markets aren't remotely comparable.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on July 19, 2018, 12:15:55 PM
Does anyone have any particular insight as to why the Tampa route is being explored prior to the Jax route? I know they have expansion LLCs for both the Tampa and Jax routes, but why does the Tampa one seem to be moving forward and the Jax isn't?

I assume that the revenue is higher for the Tampa route, but wouldn't the cost of all that construction outweigh it when compared to the rail upgrades required for Jax route? On the flip side, could the construction costs be the reason to move forward now? Material prices may increase with tariffs, a potential recession, possibility for the state to do something else in the I-4 median before Brightline builds or loss of interest from the Feds?

I'd love to have a high speed rail go from Miami to Atlanta through Jacksonville, with a side spur to Orlando/Tampa.


Although the route seems easier to Jax, the construction would be harder and more costly if your not counting the cost of land. Also it becomes a major inconvenience for FEC at times. It’s not as simple as just adding a 2nd track (double main). They have to move crossing gates and cantilevers. Also recable the old locations which is tricky to do while try to not interrupt the current working road crossing. When they have a clear path to Tampa they can “rip and run” as we say. You don’t have to worry about hitting things in the ground like fiber optics, signal cable, power cable, water and gas lines. I’m sure they will run into things here and there but not every crossing like on the Jax route.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on July 19, 2018, 12:44:19 PM
No, its a hell of a lot more complicated and costly to build new track on a corridor you don't own. An extension to Jax would be similar to the MIA-WPB section that's already in operation.  Getting to Tampa could take just as long as the delayed Orlando segment.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on July 19, 2018, 01:02:30 PM
Like I said the land acquisition is the X factor.  Watch how fast the get the 528 corridor installed. From Cocoa to Orlando will be the easy part. They are behind because of all the problems we have run into from WPB to Miami.  If the path is clear (ie you have the land) then the construction part will be easier. That’s what I’m saying.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on July 19, 2018, 01:11:38 PM
It's taken years to get studies and work out agreements to get the easement into Orlando. WPB to MIA didn't take long for construction. The Treasure Coast stuff still didn't stop them from considering running up to Cocoa while waiting for the new line into Orlando to be completed. Tampa won't be any different.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on July 19, 2018, 01:24:04 PM
Don’t get me wrong I wish they would do Jax first. I couldn’t care less about the Tampa section. From a person who worked on this project and has done Railroad construction for some time (NS, BNSF, FEC, AAF) the easier job in on virgin land. Again as long as you have the path, that includes ownership and all the BS red tape they throw in front of you. Also WPB to Mia is no where near finished, It may not seem like this because the train is running, but IMO they have 2 years of work and testing still needed to be done on the south section. The “second phase” of the project hasnt even decided who won the contract. Only thing they have started is laying fiber. Believe me when I say it’s going to be some time before Tampa or Jax is even a topic of what’s next
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on July 21, 2018, 06:55:44 AM
Again as long as you have the path, that includes ownership and all the BS red tape they throw in front of you.

Yes, and they don't have the path or necessary approvals to build on a path they don't own, which also isn't virgin land, which is the most time consuming part of the process and must be factored in. That process literally takes years. Market-wise though, Central Florida is light years larger and more significant than Jax. That alone is likely the main driver in trying to extend 80 miles to Tampa and getting the long process started to do so.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: MusicMan on July 21, 2018, 09:23:06 AM
" Also WPB to Mia is no where near finished, It may not seem like this because the train is running, but IMO they have 2 years of work and testing still needed to be done on the south section"

Not sure what you consider 'finished' but the Miami station opened in May and has 11 departures daily. Going to 16 in August.  Residential and office space (TOD) opening with in a year.

Folks I've talked to here would love to have Brightline connect to Orlando, anywhere within 10 miles of Disney or the airport.. No more I-95 to I-4  BS to put up with.....
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on July 21, 2018, 01:10:32 PM
Again as long as you have the path, that includes ownership and all the BS red tape they throw in front of you.

Yes, and they don't have the path or necessary approvals to build on a path they don't own, which also isn't virgin land, which is the most time consuming part of the process and must be factored in. That process literally takes years. Market-wise though, Central Florida is light years larger and more significant than Jax. That alone is likely the main driver in trying to extend 80 miles to Tampa and getting the long process started to do so.

Well I hope the process takes forever and they just settle on Jax.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on July 21, 2018, 01:14:52 PM
" Also WPB to Mia is no where near finished, It may not seem like this because the train is running, but IMO they have 2 years of work and testing still needed to be done on the south section"

Not sure what you consider 'finished' but the Miami station opened in May and has 11 departures daily. Going to 16 in August.  Residential and office space (TOD) opening with in a year.

Folks I've talked to here would love to have Brightline connect to Orlando, anywhere within 10 miles of Disney or the airport.. No more I-95 to I-4  BS to put up with.....

I consider I job finished when the people you are doing the work for say you are finished. You might hire a guy to do something for you and he might say well the job is practically finished but you know he still has a lot to do. The FRA still has to approve a lot of things. 0% of PTC has been implemented. The track work has not been completed. The signal work has not been completed. There’s a lot behind the scenes that needs to be addressed.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: MusicMan on July 21, 2018, 01:34:24 PM
I'm not sure what your talking about. How do you run a train from Miami to WPB without the track work not complete? Who is your source of info? Do you live down there?  I rode it two weeks ago. It was amazing. Have you ridden it? If so, when? What line did you ride.?

Why are there 11 departures per day (from Miami northbound) if it is not "working"? Are they hiring little mules to pull it?

Watch the link I posted above. Actual riders commuting every day from WPB to Miami, and back!  It's definitely working.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on July 21, 2018, 02:59:39 PM
Again as long as you have the path, that includes ownership and all the BS red tape they throw in front of you.

Yes, and they don't have the path or necessary approvals to build on a path they don't own, which also isn't virgin land, which is the most time consuming part of the process and must be factored in. That process literally takes years. Market-wise though, Central Florida is light years larger and more significant than Jax. That alone is likely the main driver in trying to extend 80 miles to Tampa and getting the long process started to do so.

Well I hope the process takes forever and they just settle on Jax.
If Jax is viable, they can do them simultaneously. Starting the process to Tampa and still being more than a year from Orlando opening is a good example.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on July 22, 2018, 12:23:53 PM
Rumor is they are going to select 3 different contractors to do all the work in the second phase. The major hiccup they had with phase one was one contractor (archer western) winning the bid, but had never worked a railroad project. They subbed everything out, and chased their tails on a lot of things, that they weren’t anticipating. Simple things like track protection for workers ended up costing them big bucks
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on July 22, 2018, 12:35:42 PM
I'm not sure what your talking about. How do you run a train from Miami to WPB without the track work not complete? Who is your source of info? Do you live down there?  I rode it two weeks ago. It was amazing. Have you ridden it? If so, when? What line did you ride.?

Why are there 11 departures per day (from Miami northbound) if it is not "working"? Are they hiring little mules to pull it?

Watch the link I posted above. Actual riders commuting every day from WPB to Miami, and back!  It's definitely working.

Yes I have ridden the train and yes I live down here. The train can run fine right now, the track isn’t unsafe. There are over a hundred joints that need to be welded, they have 3 double crossovers that are currently pointlocked and need to be cut over. One of them still needs signals installed. All this is usually simple work but not when you’re running 20 trains a day. They try moving the work to night time but FEC runs all of it freight at night.  A little inside baseball there but believe me when I say they have a while.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: tufsu1 on July 22, 2018, 09:08:20 PM
" Also WPB to Mia is no where near finished, It may not seem like this because the train is running, but IMO they have 2 years of work and testing still needed to be done on the south section"

was just there on Thursday - I bet the southern end of the station is done by spring next year
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on August 02, 2018, 12:07:01 PM
TheLakeLander question here. What if Grupo Mexico (FECs owners) bought the CSX track between orlando and Tampa?  Obviously they would have to upgrade the track but it gives them a path. I’m. It too familiar with that area. Maybe Brightline who is just a customer to FEC makes a deal with CSX like they did with FEC and pays to use their track.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on August 02, 2018, 12:26:53 PM
CSX has never been interested in selling that line. It serves the state's largest port, several coal burning power plants and Mosiac's phosphate rock empire in Bone Valley. Give that up and they can pretty much get rid of everything south of Jax.

Also, Brightline isn't a FEC customer. I believe they co-own the tracks...or at least it was described that way when the FEC was sold.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on August 02, 2018, 12:58:55 PM
Direct quote from FEC ceo “Brightline is our customer and we will do everything we can to service them”.  Grupo splashed around a lot of money buying FEC. I know they had people highrail the Baldwin to Pensacola track for sale. I can’t get specific but they didn’t see eye to eye on a few things so the sale prob won’t happen. I’ve been told that Grupo wants to own the state of Florida, basically out a chokehold on it. Plus it’s a good place to put money with a not so friendly administration taking power in Mexico. Either way the future is bright for FEC.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on August 02, 2018, 01:39:57 PM
Here's the quote from earlier this year I was referring too:

Quote
investment group also owns Florida East Coast Industries, the parent company of All Aboard Florida, developer and owner of the Brightlight passenger train system being built from Miami to West Palm Beach and Orlando.

“The sale of the Florida East Coast Railway does not impact Brightline,” said a spokeswoman, AnneMarie Mathews. “Brightline is a separate company that has dual ownership of the corridor and the right to operate passenger service.”

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article141301728.html#storylink=cpy

The CSX A line into Tampa appears to be more significant in value to CSX than the line running through the Panhandle. It's a monopoly for providing rail service in the state's second largest metro, it's largest ports and all the phosphate mines and plants in Polk and Hardee Counties. With that in mind, CSX has rejected to seriously consider previous discussions about selling the line into Tampa east of Uceta Yard.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on August 03, 2018, 09:36:04 AM
I'm not sure what your talking about. How do you run a train from Miami to WPB without the track work not complete? Who is your source of info? Do you live down there?  I rode it two weeks ago. It was amazing. Have you ridden it? If so, when? What line did you ride.?

Why are there 11 departures per day (from Miami northbound) if it is not "working"? Are they hiring little mules to pull it?

Watch the link I posted above. Actual riders commuting every day from WPB to Miami, and back!  It's definitely working.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/transportation/fl-reg-quiet-zone-delay-20180802-story.html

A lot of work still needs to be done. The main worry is will they wait to start the next phase of the project? The only thing that has started is laying the fiber. The track and signal construction keeps getting pushed. The longer the first phase goes over the tougher the road gets for Tampa or Jax.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on August 03, 2018, 10:16:07 AM
I'm not sure about that. Neither Tampa or Jax is getting anything until Orlando is operational anyway. Have they even started construction on the Beach Line segment yet? It will take a while to build all the grade separated crossings they'll need.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on August 04, 2018, 10:07:06 AM
Beach line?  Are you talking about the new 528 run?
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on August 04, 2018, 10:13:40 AM
Yes 528.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Kiva on August 04, 2018, 05:10:40 PM
They need to hurry up. Our son was scheduled on a flight from JFK to JAX on Thursday (he originally flew from Europe). It was cancelled, and he was rebooked for Friday. Also cancelled. Delta airlines could not get him on another fight until Sunday. He is currently on Amtrak, arriving tomorrow morning! >:( If we had Brightline to Orlando it would help tremendously in terms of getting on international flights.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: JaxAvondale on August 06, 2018, 07:30:00 AM
I don’t think it would help us get more international flights. Most likely, we would take Brightline to Orlando for international flights.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Kiva on August 06, 2018, 08:24:11 AM
Yes, that is what I meant. Take the Brightline to Orlando to catch a flight. It will not have an impact on international flights from Jax.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on August 07, 2018, 12:40:30 AM
I'm not sure about that. Neither Tampa or Jax is getting anything until Orlando is operational anyway. Have they even started construction on the Beach Line segment yet? It will take a while to build all the grade separated crossings they'll need.

No construction north of west palm has started. When they do start it’ll depend how they bid the job. They may give it to three separate contractors who are responsible for a segment. No one knows yet. If I’m a contractor though, I want the 528 stretch.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on August 07, 2018, 12:42:11 AM
They need to hurry up. Our son was scheduled on a flight from JFK to JAX on Thursday (he originally flew from Europe). It was cancelled, and he was rebooked for Friday. Also cancelled. Delta airlines could not get him on another fight until Sunday. He is currently on Amtrak, arriving tomorrow morning! >:( If we had Brightline to Orlando it would help tremendously in terms of getting on international flights.
My flight from FLL to LGA got canceled Friday. Had to literally cancel my whole trip, they were getting tornadoes in NY. Just bad luck I guess
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: bl8jaxnative on August 12, 2018, 01:35:58 PM

I wouldn't get too excited about Brightline going to Tampa.  So far they've failed to raise the money needed to build to Orlando.   

Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: icarus on November 17, 2018, 04:14:37 PM
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/transportation/fl-ne-brightline-virgin-20181116-story.html (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/transportation/fl-ne-brightline-virgin-20181116-story.html)

Brightline to become Virgin Trains USA
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Kiva on November 17, 2018, 06:50:59 PM
I think this is a good sign.  ;D
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Kerry on November 20, 2018, 01:47:12 PM

I wouldn't get too excited about Brightline going to Tampa.  So far they've failed to raise the money needed to build to Orlando.

Maybe they will just come to Jax instead.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: itsfantastic1 on November 20, 2018, 04:44:33 PM
What I find interesting is that Brightline/Virgin Trains has some documentation for their IPO where they mention the Tampa/Orlando route and then go on to say they own nothing for that, including the real estate. Then mention the Las Vegas to LA route, which then highlights the Victorville station which is not quite convenient to LA. Wonder if the IPO is meant to fund places they don't have a footprint and once they see what the market holds for them, they'll see if Atlanta to Miami is feasible through Jacksonville.

I just find it highly unusual that no mention for any Jacksonville expansion which could be done at a fraction of their Orlando/Tampa and Vegas/LA route. Then again, all 4 of those markets are much larger than ours so they'd only need like 14% of daily commuters for the Tamps/Orlando route to be profitable.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on November 20, 2018, 04:58:21 PM
2017 MSA populations not included the millions of tourist that travel to all these places:

LA - 13,353,907
Miami - 6,158,824
Riverside - 4,580,670
Tampa - 3,091,399
Orlando - 2,509,831
Vegas - 2,204,079

Jacksonville - 1,504,980

There's a $$$ reason they're being mentioned and made priorities over Jax.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Kerry on November 20, 2018, 10:09:05 PM
A route to Jax also includes Daytona Beach and St. Augustine which are pretty healthy tourist draws.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on November 20, 2018, 10:36:14 PM
Yes but peanuts compared to the major cities mentioned on that list.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Kerry on November 20, 2018, 10:44:08 PM
Yes but peanuts compared to the major cities mentioned on that list.

Well yes, but the choice is between Jax or nothing if they can't raise the money to get to Orlando.  Surely we can beat 'nothing'.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Kiva on November 28, 2018, 06:26:23 PM
Rail line from Orlando to Tampa gets boost
https://www.news4jax.com/news/florida/rail-line-from-orlando-to-tampa-gets-boost (https://www.news4jax.com/news/florida/rail-line-from-orlando-to-tampa-gets-boost)
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on November 28, 2018, 09:05:54 PM
It's cool to see Lakeland/Polk County getting a station. Years of planning went down the tubes when the original HSR plan was killed.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: tufsu1 on December 04, 2018, 10:31:37 AM
It's cool to see Lakeland/Polk County getting a station. Years of planning went down the tubes when the original HSR plan was killed.

There is also work progressing on the possibility of a new intermodal/multimodal center in the downtown area - one that combines, local bus, intercity bus, and intercity rail.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: bl8jaxnative on December 16, 2018, 12:04:41 PM
So did Virgin flat out buy FEC out of Brightline?  Or did they buy a piece of Brightline?  If they bought some of it, what did give in return for that ownership stake?  Cash?   Or something less risky like just the use of their brand and their marketing?
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: acme54321 on December 16, 2018, 08:33:47 PM
So did Virgin flat out buy FEC out of Brightline?  Or did they buy a piece of Brightline?  If they bought some of it, what did give in return for that ownership stake?  Cash?   Or something less risky like just the use of their brand and their marketing?

They bought a minority stake and naming rights.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on December 16, 2018, 09:16:13 PM
Jax is also shown as a potential future link in Virgin Trains USA's recent IPO filing.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: KenFSU on March 01, 2019, 12:10:14 PM
Doesn't sound like Jacksonville is much of a priority for Brightline in the mid-term, unfortunately.

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2019/02/28/jax-may-not-be-in-brightlines-future-but-heres.html?iana=hpmvp_jac_news_headline

Quote
There are no plans for Jacksonville, [Brightline VP] O'Malley said. The First Coast doesn't boast the ridership potential of Orlando or Tampa, but it does have quick access to destinations like St. Augustine and Daytona, meaning Jacksonville could eventually become a destination hub if Brightline were to partner with other rail carriers, like it does with Metromover, Metrorail and Tri Rail in Miami.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Tacachale on March 01, 2019, 01:16:15 PM
Doesn't sound like Jacksonville is much of a priority for Brightline in the mid-term, unfortunately.

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2019/02/28/jax-may-not-be-in-brightlines-future-but-heres.html?iana=hpmvp_jac_news_headline

Quote
There are no plans for Jacksonville, [Brightline VP] O'Malley said. The First Coast doesn't boast the ridership potential of Orlando or Tampa, but it does have quick access to destinations like St. Augustine and Daytona, meaning Jacksonville could eventually become a destination hub if Brightline were to partner with other rail carriers, like it does with Metromover, Metrorail and Tri Rail in Miami.

Lame.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on March 01, 2019, 01:40:09 PM
Doesn't sound like Jacksonville is much of a priority for Brightline in the mid-term, unfortunately.

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2019/02/28/jax-may-not-be-in-brightlines-future-but-heres.html?iana=hpmvp_jac_news_headline

Quote
There are no plans for Jacksonville, [Brightline VP] O'Malley said. The First Coast doesn't boast the ridership potential of Orlando or Tampa, but it does have quick access to destinations like St. Augustine and Daytona, meaning Jacksonville could eventually become a destination hub if Brightline were to partner with other rail carriers, like it does with Metromover, Metrorail and Tri Rail in Miami.

I wouldn't get too upset or down, unless you're of the opinion that they'd be doing something here in 2019.

Quote
Brightline is working hard to expand its high-speed passenger rail network, but don't hold your breath for a route to Jacksonville.

Speaking at the Jax Chamber Transportation & Logistics Council Thursday, Brightline Vice President of Government Affairs Bob O'Malley shared the next steps the railroad is taking in 2019.

Quote
Next up for Brightline: Orlando. The city is a major fixture of Brightline's business plan, and the railroad sees a large market opportunity in the 70 million tourists that visit Orlando every year.

Quote
After Orlando, Brightline plans to extend its network to Tampa, though plans for that line are more tentative than for Orlando....
..Service to Orlando would then start in 2022.

Quote
There are no plans for Jacksonville, O'Malley said. The First Coast doesn't boast the ridership potential of Orlando or Tampa, but it does have quick access to destinations like St. Augustine and Daytona, meaning Jacksonville could eventually become a destination hub if Brightline were to partner with other rail carriers.....

Quote
But Brightline does have easement rights on Florida East Coast Railway's line from Miami to Jacksonville, which makes a future route more feasible.

Quote
"The focus right now is on Orlando," said O'Malley. "I'm sure at some point in the future we'll sit down with JTA and the city and just have the conversation."

2022 is three years away. That's not a lot of time in the infrastructure planning and development world. For comparison's sake, it will take longer than that to to get Lot J opened. It will take longer than that to get the Prime Osborn out of the old station. They also already have the easement rights into Jax.

From a transportation planning perspective, this should tell Jax that it needs to be working on getting its house in order and coordinating the routing of local transit options and supportive land uses around potential station sites. We have a LRTP process that is about to get underway. That's a plan that determines where the next 20 years of multimodal transportation projects should be built and when. Connecting to the Brightline corridor and including local station sites are things that should become a part of this, making it easier to secure funding from a variety of sources. Unfortunately, we're more likely to read this and put our heads in the sand, thus being caught with our pants down when the opportunity materializes.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: itsfantastic1 on March 01, 2019, 02:08:47 PM
What I found interesting about the article was that he states Jacksonville can be a hub for the northeast Florida when partnering with other rail services.

That seems to indicate that AAF/Brightline/Virgin wants to bypass Daytona and St. Augustine stations for speed purposes, but rely on a rail transfer in Jacksonville to still feed into those destinations (hint; JTA's south commuter line). Also; not sure how that would work since both would utilize the same rails line (FEC).

Of course, there is also the potentinal to use Jacksonville as the jump to Atlanta too.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on March 01, 2019, 02:15:07 PM
Basically, it's what they're doing with Tri-Rail in South Florida. Tri-Rail is going to use their infrastructure to provide commuter rail service to stops in between their three South Florida stops. A local application would be JTA running commuter rail between Jax and St. Augustine and having some stops in between. A intercity example would be extending Amtrak from Jax to Miami via the FEC but Amtrak stopping at cities like St. Augustine, Palm Coast and Daytona while Brightline only stops at Jax. From what I'm understanding with Sunrail, a potential partnership could involve Sunrail being able to use their infrastructure to finally get access into Orlando International Airport.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on March 06, 2019, 09:56:08 AM
FEC will not let Amtrak run on their tracks. Take that to the bank! There is no money in running amtrack, it just gets in the way of freight and they are already upset with BL for how much they are getting in the way.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on March 06, 2019, 10:14:20 AM
Why are they letting Tri-Rail run on their tracks in Miami?  Seems like a lot more traffic than intercity rail.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Tacachale on March 06, 2019, 10:21:45 AM
Why are they letting Tri-Rail run on their tracks in Miami?  Seems like a lot more traffic than intercity rail.

Lol, yep.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Ocklawaha on March 07, 2019, 07:55:01 PM
Florida East Coast, Brightline-Virgin, Tri-Rail, all sharing track? Complaints? REALLY?

Certainly there will be a few operating bugs to work out but the future hold nothing but high green signals for this combination. While I don't expect Amtrak (if it even survives as is) to jump on the Daytona, Cocoa, Melbourne, Miami market, it's totally possible. Jacksonville not in the plan? Don't kid yourselves. Here's how I would sort this out:

Tri-Rail/Sunrail are Commuter Lines, nothing more. There is some likelihood that Sunrail might expand toward Tampa and St. Pete, as well as north to Jacksonville. NOTHING OFFICIAL, Just the old railroader looking at the rather obvious sprawl along that whole crescent, density + traffic + severe and growing congestion will demand it. Getting Tri-Rail, into Miami Central along the Virgin-FEC route is simply brilliant. Bring in several million locals annually into downtown and release them next to the hottest ride available to Fort Lauderdale, West Palm, Fort Pierce, Cocoa-Rockledge, Orlando, Lakeland, Tampa... So Tri-Rail, and Sunrail will feed the Intercity Trains of Virgin.

Virgin-All Aboard Florida Jacksonville Segment LLC-Flagler are, read my lips: DEVELOPERS!  They are the first private investors to seek the profit that municipalities around the globe have gained with TRANSIT ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT. in the past a developer such as the Ortega Company would build a Streetcar Line out to the newest community, the crowds followed and they sold homes and lots like hotcakes. Everywhere RAIL goes development follows. From Tampa's Streetcar to Kenosha to Kansas City to... New development swells tax revenues making all but the dumbest city quite a profit on its investment.

The new Florida development seeks to build that same rail line, but then develop the 'Town Centers' around it. They see it working like Publix... You wouldn't go to Publix if they didn't have shopping carts, so the carts are a value added to your experience. Likewise they are betting you won't want to live in Ponte Vedra if they can turn the old Union Terminal (Prime Osborn) into a gateway to a high rent village.

For these reasons Jacksonville doesn't have the mojo of a Miami, Tampa or Orlando, but change is coming. Pushing 2 Million in our Metro Area and being exactly the mid-way point between Miami and Atlanta bodes well for us in the future.

Complaints? Railroad's are in this for money, Amtrak, your track or my track they don't care, lets make a business deal... You do know that NORFOLK SOUTHERN (which ends in Jacksonville) owns trains that cross the river daily racing for it's intermodal center in Titusville, Florida... ON THE FLORIDA EAST COAST!
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on March 09, 2019, 11:20:34 AM
Why are they letting Tri-Rail run on their tracks in Miami?  Seems like a lot more traffic than intercity rail.

Lol, yep.

First of all you’re mistaken TriRail does not run on FEC or Brightline track. TriRail will connect to the Brightline station but run on their own tracks. So no one is clogging up FEC tracks except Brightline with their station which is on the Portlead track that runs separate from the Hialeah yard. The only freight that runs on the portlead is the stuff that comes out of the port of Miami.
Second from West Palm to Jax the majority of the track is single. Unlike south of West Palm which is now double track the whole way. If Amtrak ran from Jax to Miami it would clog up the single track preventing freight from moving freely. I know to the common person it seems like a small burden but it’s not. Dispatchers have to move freight up and down the track all day and night plus you have local trains working industries in different cities. Certain trains are more important than others so they can’t stop, they have to keep moving to meet customer demands. If Amtrak smokes someone at a crossing and is held there clogging up the only track then freight stops, not only does it stop it backs up. Then you have a 2 mile train that needs to get through but can’t proceed because he is too long to sit on the siding that is ahead so he is held 50 miles before the accident. Then here comes another mile and a half train but he has to sit 50 miles the other direction. You see the problem?
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on March 09, 2019, 08:11:35 PM
Tri-Rail's Coastal Link on the FEC corridor is scheduled to start later this year: https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2018/08/07/tri-rail-targets-third-quarter-2019-runs-downtown-miami/
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Tacachale on March 09, 2019, 08:41:23 PM
Tri-Rail's Coastal Link on the FEC corridor is scheduled to start later this year: https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2018/08/07/tri-rail-targets-third-quarter-2019-runs-downtown-miami/

Womp womp
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on March 10, 2019, 09:49:26 AM
Tri-Rail's Coastal Link on the FEC corridor is scheduled to start later this year: https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2018/08/07/tri-rail-targets-third-quarter-2019-runs-downtown-miami/

Womp womp

I hope this Womp womp wasn’t for a I proved you wrong cause it clearly says in the article “Downtown Miami Link, funding 26 trains and nine miles of new rail infrastructure. The 450-person capacity of each train will provide a one-seat ride to and from downtown Miami.
Construction of the Tri-Rail portion is to be finished by September, according to South Florida Regional Transportation Authority Executive Director Jack Stephens.”  9 miles of new track is TriRail track not FEC track. The 9 miles will go into the Brightline station on its own separate track that they control/own/are responsible for. I mean hell the title of the article says it too, “link” is your key flash word. It will link with the Brightline station. NO TriRail train are running on FEC tracks period! If you think that they are then you’re just ignorant to the facts. TriRail will pull into the station on its own tracks.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on March 10, 2019, 09:54:02 AM
Ok, you're getting into semantics now. One would assume if you added passenger rail to the corridor, that would include upgrading the infrastructure for the needed capacity....just like what was done with SunRail and Tri-Rail and typically any other new rail service.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on March 10, 2019, 10:23:53 AM
Why are they letting Tri-Rail run on their tracks in Miami?  Seems like a lot more traffic than intercity rail.

I don’t know if it’s semantics if I’m just pointing out that what you wrote was factually incorrect. See the quote above. Now if you want to assume that FEC went double track the whole corridor (which will hopefully be completed up to cocoa when the BL project is finished) yes you would need something like another party to come in and upgrade the track. Now if Amtrak said here’s $500 million of federal money to make your track double then yes maybe one day Amtrak would run on the FEC corridor. As for right now Grupo (FEC owners) have no reason to spend the money to upgrade that. I’m more interested and hopeful they buy the CSX track for sale that runs to Pensacola. That’s what gets me excited.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on March 10, 2019, 10:58:20 AM
Yes I assumed we're smart enough here to know that there would be capacity upgrades to track on FEC's ROW to accommodate the extra traffic. We've been having these types of discussions where since the forum went live in 2005. Every past FEC passenger rail related project proposed included track capacity improvements on FEC property.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: bl8jaxnative on March 10, 2019, 12:17:20 PM

What's the over / under in Vegas on Brightline Virgin Trains USA going belly up by the end of 2019?  2020?
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on March 10, 2019, 12:29:09 PM
If they don’t get the $900 million they want then I bet they liquidate
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on March 10, 2019, 12:31:59 PM
Regarding Grupo, why would they want CSX's line through the Panhandle? Why does CSX want to get rid of it? Is it profitable? Are there any big industrial customers on that stretch?
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on March 10, 2019, 05:08:39 PM
Well it would give them a strangle hold on the state. They already have all the ports on the east coast. CSX has access to Miami but it’s very limited. There’s nothing too big out there, but it gets them a lot closer to the border. Also they own a rail ferry that goes between Mexico and Mobile. It would get them very close to that. CSX has had it for sale for a while but the want too much money for it. It’s in horrible shape and there are major problem that need to be addressed in order to raise the track speed. They almost had a buyer but they backed out last min. Word is they found out how bad the condition of the track was and how much money they would have had to spend.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: acme54321 on March 10, 2019, 10:47:15 PM
Well it would give them a strangle hold on the state. They already have all the ports on the east coast. CSX has access to Miami but it’s very limited. There’s nothing too big out there, but it gets them a lot closer to the border. Also they own a rail ferry that goes between Mexico and Mobile. It would get them very close to that. CSX has had it for sale for a while but the want too much money for it. It’s in horrible shape and there are major problem that need to be addressed in order to raise the track speed. They almost had a buyer but they backed out last min. Word is they found out how bad the condition of the track was and how much money they would have had to spend.

All of the ports on the east cost? 
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on March 10, 2019, 10:56:41 PM
^basically West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale and Miami. Not Jax or the much larger east coast ports north of Jax.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: acme54321 on March 11, 2019, 06:48:07 AM
^basically West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale and Miami. Not Jax or the much larger east coast ports north of Jax.


I know, at least in Florida he missed out on Canaveral (no rail access for anyone obviously), Jax, and much smaller Fernandina.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on March 11, 2019, 07:07:02 AM
Also CSX does have sole access to Florida's largest port in Tampa. Doesn't seem like they're interested in selling the line into Tampa and Bone Valley.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on March 11, 2019, 12:30:50 PM
^basically West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale and Miami. Not Jax or the much larger east coast ports north of Jax.


I know, at least in Florida he missed out on Canaveral (no rail access for anyone obviously), Jax, and much smaller Fernandina.

   Actually fun fact NASA had its own little railroad at one time. They still move stuff from time to time but it links up with FEC. FEC installed it for them and it goes all the way out on the cape. FEC used to maintain it at one time but it’s rarely used anymore so idk what they do with it now. It’s definitely still there though. No industries really go into that port so it would be kinda stupid to invest in a yard there.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Pottsburg on March 12, 2019, 10:23:37 AM
https://www.thenextmiami.com/photos-of-downtown-miamis-new-tri-rail-station-where-starbucks-is-now-under-construction/
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: thelakelander on March 12, 2019, 10:54:32 AM
That train station is looking pretty good. I'll have to check it out when I'm back down there in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
Post by: Todd_Parker on March 12, 2019, 11:26:19 AM
No need to feel envious, Jacksonvillians. Soon, JTA's driver-less porta potties/homeless hostels-on-wheels will put Tri-rail to shame!