The Jaxson

Community => Parks, Recreation, and the Environment => Topic started by: lastdaysoffla on June 11, 2018, 11:21:52 PM

Title: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: lastdaysoffla on June 11, 2018, 11:21:52 PM
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180608/developer-seeking-land-swap-for-building-space-in-julington-durbin-peninsula (http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180608/developer-seeking-land-swap-for-building-space-in-julington-durbin-peninsula)
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: Tacachale on June 12, 2018, 09:57:04 AM
Yeah, let's get this straight - dude wants to build on land that's currently preserved, in exchange for land that isn't developed currently? What's the environmental advantage there? The city should tell him no and work on a deal to buy the Black Hammock Island property as well. Win-win situation.

For those out there critical of the parks department's large size, this is the kind of thing that happens when you talk about giving out public property.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: Captain Zissou on June 12, 2018, 10:04:32 AM
Well this seems terrible.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: Captain Zissou on June 12, 2018, 10:07:45 AM
For those out there critical of the parks department's large size, this is the kind of thing that happens when you talk about giving out public property.

I'd like to see greater delineation between preserved lands and "park space".  I am definitely a novice on the matter, but I think the 2 should be classified and treated differently.  I'd love to get more involved in the parks department to help with the current situation.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: lastdaysoffla on June 12, 2018, 10:37:45 AM
If I recall correctly, Julington-Durbin Preserve(JDP) is a partnership between COJ's Parks Department and St Johns River Water Management District(SJRWMD). I think SJRWMD retains ownership of the land along with the state and maintains it.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: lastdaysoffla on June 12, 2018, 10:46:07 AM
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/julington-durbin-creek-preserve-homes-state-road-9b/767571573 (https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/julington-durbin-creek-preserve-homes-state-road-9b/767571573)


Additional quote from the Developer "Currently the city has been unable to develop and maintain the park for access to Jacksonville residents. The Eastland development will provide permanent maintenance of the remaining 1,600 acres of the Preserve"

That's just a flat out falsehood, I was there on Friday, access and maintenance are just fine.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: Tacachale on June 12, 2018, 10:53:08 AM
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/julington-durbin-creek-preserve-homes-state-road-9b/767571573 (https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/julington-durbin-creek-preserve-homes-state-road-9b/767571573)


Additional quote from the Developer "Currently the city has been unable to develop and maintain the park for access to Jacksonville residents. The Eastland development will provide permanent maintenance of the remaining 1,600 acres of the Preserve"

That's just a flat out falsehood, I was there on Friday, access and maintenance are just fine.

Yeah, last time I was there the access was perfectly fine.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: Captain Zissou on June 12, 2018, 11:02:32 AM
^ The driveway was a little rutted out, but everything else was fine.  It's one Eagle Scout project away from being great preservation area with marked trails.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: Tacachale on June 12, 2018, 11:10:28 AM
For those out there critical of the parks department's large size, this is the kind of thing that happens when you talk about giving out public property.

I'd like to see greater delineation between preserved lands and "park space".  I am definitely a novice on the matter, but I think the 2 should be classified and treated differently.  I'd love to get more involved in the parks department to help with the current situation.

For the most part they are treated differently. The Preserve Parks (http://www.coj.net/departments/parks-and-recreation/recreation-and-community-programming/preservation-parks) include both land that the public can access, and land that's not (readily) accessible. Other than the accessible areas they (COJ parks department) don't devote the level of resources that they do (or are supposed to do) with the city parks. The state and feds also own/maintain property on top of the city (the greater Timucuan Preserve area, for example, has all 3). The point is, the preserves aren't a drain on the resources of the department.

The real issue with the parks department is the funding. When we were well funded, we had great system. The budget was slashed under the Peyton administration, and cut down to the bone under the Brown administration. I think I said this in another thread, but Curry has increased the budget over the last few years, but it's not to the same level, and a lot of it has had to go to employee pension and benefits increases rather than additional staff and resources. It's a damn shame.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: vicupstate on June 12, 2018, 12:23:20 PM
I don't think anyone said the preserves were a strain on the Parks department. They are largely left alone. The issue has always been the conditions of the 'true' city parks.   
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: Tacachale on June 12, 2018, 03:33:33 PM
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/julington-durbin-creek-preserve-homes-state-road-9b/767571573 (https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/julington-durbin-creek-preserve-homes-state-road-9b/767571573)


Additional quote from the Developer "Currently the city has been unable to develop and maintain the park for access to Jacksonville residents. The Eastland development will provide permanent maintenance of the remaining 1,600 acres of the Preserve"

That's just a flat out falsehood, I was there on Friday, access and maintenance are just fine.

Yeah, last time I was there the access was perfectly fine.

Apparently, the access they're talking about is canoe and kayak access on that part of the park. That's the part that wasn't ever built out as planned. The new development would provide and maintain that as part of the deal.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: jaxlongtimer on June 12, 2018, 07:34:24 PM
As noted in this excellent column by Mark Woods [http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180612/mark-woods-never-say-forever-land-swap-would-set-horrible-precedent (http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180612/mark-woods-never-say-forever-land-swap-would-set-horrible-precedent)], preservation means just that.  Preserved "forever."  What is sacred if this deal is done?

And, the money being offered for improvements (if such a need really exist), whatever they may be, will never last forever.  No money last forever as inflation constantly eats away at it unless it is replenished by inflation-matching or -exceeding additions.  No way that happens here given the track record of our local and state governments.

Delaney's 180 degree turn is a major disappointment and indicates the rapid depreciation of his principles now that he is a lobbyist along with the ongoing power of money over altruism.  Another example of his early "accomplishments" not standing the test of time if he follows through with support of this.  Consider he helped create the pension and courthouse (Better Jax budget [per Municipal Code 761.102(c)(5)] $190 million, actual cost due to mismanagement, $360 million) boondoggles.  How about his broken Better Jax promise for mass transit investment ($100 million for "rapid transit right of way acquisition" [per Municipal Code 761.102(a)(6)] - zero spent! - where are the law suits on this?!)?  Parks and preservation was a shining star of his legacy and now he wants to tarnish it.  This is symbolic of Jax leadership.  Always for sale to developers no matter the harm to our community and standard of living.  Thought Delaney was different but apparently not.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: lastdaysoffla on June 12, 2018, 07:55:02 PM
it can be argued that a kayak launch is needed. I just don't understand the logistics of the launch. The creek is almost a mile from the current entrance to the Preserve. That would mean a new paved road and a parking lot next to the creek? There used to be a kayak launch that directly accessed the Preserve property along the upper reaches of Durbin creek under a bridge on Racetrack Road. That launch was destroyed so that Racetack could be widened.

Anyway, a kayak launch and some bathrooms is not worth 400 acres of preserved land, IMO.

Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: marcuscnelson on June 13, 2018, 12:53:51 AM
There used to be a kayak launch that directly accessed the Preserve property along the upper reaches of Durbin creek under a bridge on Racetrack Road. That launch was destroyed so that Racetack could be widened.

As part of the plan for the RaceTrack project (https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25299309_10215346256108266_4504018853502134929_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=8cde10e9e85a5dffb239230c46baa32e&oe=5BC22FE0) and Bartram Market (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/bartram-market-to-bring-grocer-shops-to-st-johns-duval-counties), a new launch is supposed to be built with parking and a dock.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: Captain Zissou on June 13, 2018, 09:14:01 AM
There is a great launch area off of Old St Augustine in Palmetto Leaves Park.  I used it in November.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: acme54321 on June 13, 2018, 10:11:11 AM
What a joke.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: Tacachale on June 13, 2018, 04:26:16 PM
Hopefully they channel some of that energy to saving Black Hammock. It's going to be the thing developed if this deal doesn't go through.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: Scarlettjax on June 13, 2018, 07:04:37 PM
I don't want to see either developed.  There should be a way to get both. 

Development-wise, the Durbin land will be less expensive to develop and subsequently sell than the Black Hammock land will, and that is likely the biggest business incentive. 
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: riverkeepered on June 21, 2018, 10:39:34 AM
Make sure to sign the petition too: https://www.change.org/p/rick-scott-and-danny-becton-save-julington-durbin-preserve

This would establish a dangerous precedent that would potentially open up all of our conservation lands to future development.  Also, the Black Hammock Island property will be very hard to develop, anyway.  Lawsuits previously stopped a proposed development. 
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: Tacachale on June 21, 2018, 11:43:36 AM
Make sure to sign the petition too: https://www.change.org/p/rick-scott-and-danny-becton-save-julington-durbin-preserve

This would establish a dangerous precedent that would potentially open up all of our conservation lands to future development.  Also, the Black Hammock Island property will be very hard to develop, anyway.  Lawsuits previously stopped a proposed development.

The Black Hammock property will *not* be hard to develop and there’s no reason to think it’s not imminent if this deal fails. Claiming otherwise is wishful thinking. The property is also zoned for septic tanks - on an island in the middle of preserve land. Everyone who opposes this deal needs to step up to save Black Hammock or it’s virtually certain that we’ll lose it, especially if the environmental community keeps their heads in the sand.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: lastdaysoffla on June 29, 2018, 08:09:36 PM
Wasn't expecting such a quick reversal on the part of the developer and selling the Black Hammock Island site for conservation to boot. Amazing!
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: Scarlettjax on June 30, 2018, 08:09:15 PM
Looks like get both is possible, after all.  What do you all think did the most to drive the quick reversal? 
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: remc86007 on July 01, 2018, 01:50:35 PM
Generally a fan of Delaney, but his appearance on Melissa Ross show was cringe inducing. If I had his money I'd retire, not chase more money at the risk of causing people to question the credibility he has earned over the years.
Title: Re: Developer seeking land swap for building space in Julington-Durbin Preserve
Post by: Florida Power And Light on March 08, 2019, 09:33:52 PM
The original Julington/Durbin Creek Conservation Lands proposal,per earlier state CARL concept,was 6,000 acres.
We ended up with a Delaney era "Joint City Conserve/Development" project with vastly reduced conservation acreage,and a boundary that perplexed Water Management District staff......convoluted Conserve/Boundary Gerrymandered to include every inch of made available upland development.
Then,years later,Delaney reappears. Even after his efforts with Brannon Chafee/First Coast Beltway likely bombed his future political career.
Tells us "Improvements" incorporated in the proposed Swap will enhance public use.
The public best served by Delaney remaining Gone in any and all environmental/public lands discourse. Delaney was a Fraud from the beginning.