Metro Jacksonville

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: KenFSU on April 15, 2018, 10:39:57 AM

Title: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 15, 2018, 10:39:57 AM
Interesting article ahead of Thursday's State of the Franchise event:

Quote
Khan’s vision for downtown development faces knotty challenges

The Jaguars’ “State of the Franchise” on Thursday will double as a “State of Downtown” for team owner Shad Khan.

The event will come one year after the Downtown Investment Authority picked Khan’s Iguana Investments Florida as the top choice to be master developer of Metropolitan Park and The Shipyards, two city-owned tracts of riverfront land across the street from the sports complex.

Since then, Khan has added Lot J, a large parking lot at the stadium, to the mix as a potential site for an entertainment district.

If history is a guide, the State of the Franchise will unveil eye-catching renderings of what Khan envisions for Lot J, Met Park and The Shipyards.

But complicated challenges stand in the way: contaminated soil at Lot J and The Shipyards, a National Park Service agreement that prevents private development on Met Park unless the city can find replacement park land elsewhere, and the continued hunt for money to tear down the Hart Bridge elevated ramps that run alongside Met Park...

Full story: http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180414/khans-vision-for-downtown-development-faces-knotty-challenges?start=2

Two interesting points:

1) There may be a way to safely develop Lot J as is.

2) The city has been in active talks recently with the National Park Service about opening up Metro Park for development.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Charles Hunter on April 15, 2018, 03:49:11 PM
Given the disdain the current administration in DC has for the National Park Service, and their desire to develop all that wasted property, we may not have to provide any compensatory land for Metro Park.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: marcuscnelson on April 15, 2018, 04:13:01 PM
Given the disdain the current administration in DC has for the National Park Service, and their desire to develop all that wasted property, we may not have to provide any compensatory land for Metro Park.

Perhaps, but I wouldn't bet on that being the case. Besides, what's wrong with having a nice urban park Downtown? Especially with Khan's currently proposed location connecting to Hogan Creek.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Charles Hunter on April 15, 2018, 05:01:47 PM
Given the disdain the current administration in DC has for the National Park Service, and their desire to develop all that wasted property, we may not have to provide any compensatory land for Metro Park.

Perhaps, but I wouldn't bet on that being the case. Besides, what's wrong with having a nice urban park Downtown? Especially with Khan's currently proposed location connecting to Hogan Creek.

Oh, I think we should replace Metro. I'm just opining that if the local GOP powers-that-be ask, they might get a favorable response.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: marcuscnelson on April 15, 2018, 06:15:55 PM
Oh, I think we should replace Metro. I'm just opining that if the local GOP powers-that-be ask, they might get a favorable response.

Fair.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: jagsonville on April 15, 2018, 10:07:52 PM
Lookin forward to Khan and company’s presentation on Thursday. I feel like Khan and Lamping will make this happen in the next two years and light a fire under under Sleiman to do something with the Landing.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaxAvondale on April 15, 2018, 10:41:14 PM
Lookin forward to Khan and company’s presentation on Thursday. I feel like Khan and Lamping will make this happen in the next two years and light a fire under under Sleiman to do something with the Landing.

Light a fire under Sleiman? Fair or unfair, my perception is that the city and/or Khan is trying to squeeze him out of the property.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on April 16, 2018, 11:29:01 AM
Lookin forward to Khan and company’s presentation on Thursday. I feel like Khan and Lamping will make this happen in the next two years and light a fire under under Sleiman to do something with the Landing.

Light a fire under Sleiman? Fair or unfair, my perception is that the city and/or Khan is trying to squeeze him out of the property.

I'd say that that ship has sailed and they're going to build their own entertainment center closer to the stadium and let Sleiman do whatever it is he wants with the Landing. 
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: copperfiend on April 16, 2018, 12:16:55 PM
Its not listed in the article. But I noticed something in the schedule for this week that was tweeted out by the Jags PR guy.

It said Thursday, as part of the State of the Franchise, there would be a "Momentous Live Music Announcement".
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 16, 2018, 12:27:37 PM
Its not listed in the article. But I noticed something in the schedule for this week that was tweeted out by the Jags PR guy.

It said Thursday, as part of the State of the Franchise, there would be a "Momentous Live Music Announcement".

You mean Styx and REO Speedwagon are coming back for a second show?!? Or is it somebody new? Kansas? URIAH HEEP!? Oh the anticipation!
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: pierre on April 16, 2018, 12:50:50 PM
I don't want to play spoiler here but Buckcherry, P.O.D., Lit and Alien Ant Farm are going on tour together.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 16, 2018, 01:22:36 PM
I don't want to play spoiler here but Buckcherry, P.O.D., Lit and Alien Ant Farm are going on tour together.

I thought this was a joke, but it's very, very real (http://loudwire.com/buckcherry-pod-lit-and-alien-ant-farm-announce-gen-x-tour/). They're even calling it the "Gen X Tour". I guess "Hi Bored, I'm Dad Tour" was taken.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 16, 2018, 01:49:17 PM
Its not listed in the article. But I noticed something in the schedule for this week that was tweeted out by the Jags PR guy.

It said Thursday, as part of the State of the Franchise, there would be a "Momentous Live Music Announcement".

The Jags don't control the arena, just Daily's Place and Everbank Field.

I don't think anything at Daily's Place would classify as "momentous," just because it's only a 5,500 seat venue.

So I'm guessing it's either a big act at the stadium, or a festival at the stadium complex.

My guess, based on that criteria and Live Nation's partners, is Ed Sheeran.

He's doing a stadium tour in November, with only two stops in the southeast (Raymond James Stadium in Tampa on 11/7 and Mercedes Benz Stadium in Atlanta on 11/10).
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Gators312 on April 16, 2018, 02:26:00 PM
I don't want to play spoiler here but Buckcherry, P.O.D., Lit and Alien Ant Farm are going on tour together.

I thought this was a joke, but it's very, very real (http://loudwire.com/buckcherry-pod-lit-and-alien-ant-farm-announce-gen-x-tour/). They're even calling it the "Gen X Tour". I guess "Hi Bored, I'm Dad Tour" was taken.

Appropriate choice of Milwaukee to kick off this abomination. 
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JBTripper on April 16, 2018, 02:39:51 PM
Why not incorporate the park land swap with the Emerald Necklace? Develop Met Park into a Four Seasons Hotel and Conference Center and create a Hogan's Creek park to serve as the centerpiece of the Emerald Necklace.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaxJersey-licious on April 16, 2018, 02:57:27 PM
Its not listed in the article. But I noticed something in the schedule for this week that was tweeted out by the Jags PR guy.

It said Thursday, as part of the State of the Franchise, there would be a "Momentous Live Music Announcement".

My bet is Lynyrd Skynyrd multiple dates at Dailys Place before either the home opener or Jags-Patriots matchup.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 16, 2018, 03:08:15 PM
Why not incorporate the park land swap with the Emerald Necklace? Develop Met Park into a Four Seasons Hotel and Conference Center and create a Hogan's Creek park to serve as the centerpiece of the Emerald Necklace.

Might could work, but I don't know that handing all that land over to the feds would be in our best interest. There's a lot of red tap and the Emerald Necklace needs a ton of work as it is. I wonder if the feds would even go for it.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 16, 2018, 03:31:43 PM
Its not listed in the article. But I noticed something in the schedule for this week that was tweeted out by the Jags PR guy.

It said Thursday, as part of the State of the Franchise, there would be a "Momentous Live Music Announcement".

My bet is Lynyrd Skynyrd multiple dates at Dailys Place before either the home opener or Jags-Patriots matchup.

This is actually a really solid guess.

Looks like Lynyrd Skynyrd (or whatever's left of the band) is on their farewell tour right now.

Right now their final show is September 1st in Atlanta.

Makes sense for them to play their "final show" or shows here in Jacksonville.

That said, I wish the Jags would find a better win song than Sweet Home Alabama. It's a stupid song to use for a Jacksonville win, and local roots aside, I'm not sure LS really resonates with the under 40-crowd very well.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: pierre on April 16, 2018, 04:02:59 PM
Its not listed in the article. But I noticed something in the schedule for this week that was tweeted out by the Jags PR guy.

It said Thursday, as part of the State of the Franchise, there would be a "Momentous Live Music Announcement".

My bet is Lynyrd Skynyrd multiple dates at Dailys Place before either the home opener or Jags-Patriots matchup.

That would make sense. If it's a final concert kind of thing, it could feature other musicians as guests too.

And maybe even have it in the stadium.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Charles Hunter on April 16, 2018, 04:37:38 PM
Its not listed in the article. But I noticed something in the schedule for this week that was tweeted out by the Jags PR guy.

It said Thursday, as part of the State of the Franchise, there would be a "Momentous Live Music Announcement".

My bet is Lynyrd Skynyrd multiple dates at Dailys Place before either the home opener or Jags-Patriots matchup.

This is actually a really solid guess.

Looks like Lynyrd Skynyrd (or whatever's left of the band) is on their farewell tour right now.

Right now their final show is September 1st in Atlanta.

Makes sense for them to play their "final show" or shows here in Jacksonville.

That said, I wish the Jags would find a better win song than Sweet Home Alabama. It's a stupid song to use for a Jacksonville win, and local roots aside, I'm not sure LS really resonates with the under 40-crowd very well.

And, geography lesson - This. is. not. Alabama.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaGoaT on April 16, 2018, 05:46:06 PM
Why not incorporate the park land swap with the Emerald Necklace? Develop Met Park into a Four Seasons Hotel and Conference Center and create a Hogan's Creek park to serve as the centerpiece of the Emerald Necklace.
First thing that came to mind when I saw the mention of land swap. I really hope this is what they have planned.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: pierre on April 18, 2018, 09:50:06 AM
I was able to get a peek at the Lot J renderings. I think it will be talked about a lot in this thread tomorrow.

Visually impressive, and so much more than just a stretch of bars/restaurants.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 18, 2018, 01:09:49 PM
I was able to get a peek at the Lot J renderings. I think it will be talked about a lot in this thread tomorrow.

Visually impressive, and so much more than just a stretch of bars/restaurants.

It's gonna be a fun day.

Lot J renderings.

New uniform reveal.

Shipyards update.

Stadium rebrand renderings.

Some kind of concert announcement.

Also, it might not be far enough along to announce tomorrow, but there's been buzz in the last couple of weeks that Khan has been talking with Four Seasons.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: comncense on April 18, 2018, 01:30:45 PM
The team's schedule will also be released tomorrow night. Keeping fingers crossed for at least one home prime time game
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Charles Hunter on April 18, 2018, 01:41:02 PM
I was able to get a peek at the Lot J renderings. I think it will be talked about a lot in this thread tomorrow.

Visually impressive, and so much more than just a stretch of bars/restaurants.

It's gonna be a fun day.

Lot J renderings.

New uniform reveal.

Shipyards update.

Stadium rebrand renderings.

Some kind of concert announcement.

Also, it might not be far enough along to announce tomorrow, but there's been buzz in the last couple of weeks that Khan has been talking with Four Seasons.

Is Frankie Valli still touring?  ;-)
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: pierre on April 18, 2018, 01:42:59 PM
The team's schedule will also be released tomorrow night. Keeping fingers crossed for at least one home prime time game

I think we will see one early in the year against either Pittsburgh or New England.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 18, 2018, 05:30:48 PM
Also, it might not be far enough along to announce tomorrow, but there's been buzz in the last couple of weeks that Khan has been talking with Four Seasons.

So I randomly messaged a friend from waaaaay back and asked if he can give me ANY info on a potential four seasons deal in Jax. This is not somebody I am close with anymore nor have we actually spoken in a long long time. However, we have had occasional interaction on facebook. Based on his job title, he would 100% be privy to anything of this sort and actually would probably be involved on such a project.

Anyway, he said he wouldn't be allowed to divulge anything at all, but if he was going to give me a hint it would be that their focus is on ex-US and Latin America in particular.

I would love for him to be wrong and/or just keeping me in the dark. We shall see!!!!
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on April 18, 2018, 06:31:02 PM
Looking forward to the announcement
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 18, 2018, 07:52:55 PM
I would love for him to be wrong and/or just keeping me in the dark. We shall see!!!!

And now he's sent me another message basically teasing me that he can't share anything anyway.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 18, 2018, 07:54:45 PM
Also, it might not be far enough along to announce tomorrow, but there's been buzz in the last couple of weeks that Khan has been talking with Four Seasons.

So I randomly messaged a friend from waaaaay back and asked if he can give me ANY info on a potential four seasons deal in Jax. This is not somebody I am close with anymore nor have we actually spoken in a long long time. However, we have had occasional interaction on facebook. Based on his job title, he would 100% be privy to anything of this sort and actually would probably be involved on such a project.

Anyway, he said he wouldn't be allowed to divulge anything at all, but if he was going to give me a hint it would be that their focus is on ex-US and Latin America in particular.

I would love for him to be wrong and/or just keeping me in the dark. We shall see!!!!

We'll see what happens :)

One thing to note though is that Four Seasons doesn't operate like a traditional hotel brand, where they own their properties. Ultimately, they're just a hotel management brand partnering with whoever has the capital to build out a Four Seasons caliber property. Property owners and developers come to them and say, "I want to build a five star hotel in City X, I'm fully funding it, overseeing construction, and maintaining ownership. I want to give you a percentage to operate the hotel and brand it as Four Seasons." There's very little risk for Four Seasons, aside from any potential to damage the brand.

They may have strategic markets they wants to build in, but if Shad Khan comes to them and says, "I want to build a Four Seasons here in Jacksonville and I'm willing to spare no expense to do it," I think it happens. Plus, Four Seasons loves multiple-property owners, and they love Shad Khan (he owns the Four Seasons in the city that the brand is headquartered in, Toronto, and is close with Prince Al-waleed, who owns a large percentage of the Four Seasons company).

As we've seen in the past, Khan is a guy who gets what he wants, and a Four Seasons in Jacksonville has been on his list for years now. I honestly think it's a matter of when, not if.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 19, 2018, 01:02:11 AM
I definitely agree with you that Khan makes things happen. The question is how much he wants this in particular.

And the fact that Four Seasons is an operator and not owner/developer hardly suggests that they are not selective with their properties.

But yeah, we will see! No reason it couldn't happen if Khan leads the way.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: ben says on April 19, 2018, 04:46:29 AM
On the one hand, if St. Louis can have a Four Seasons, I think JAX could.

On the other hand, I don´t think anyone visiting JAX would pay FS rates, unless it´s corp biz....

FS is exceptionally selective with its destinations, mangement co. or otherwise. Harder to get a FS than an IKEA, believe it or not. (Better comparison: getting a FS is more like getting a Bloomingdales, which is a step up from Nordstrom, which took moving heaven and hell to get....)

I work with FS on a daily basis...just can´t see this happening. After all, the entire country of Spain is just now, in 2018, getting their first FS. Madrid. Barcelona, despite years of trying, can´t even get one, since it´s solely a leisure destination and not a corporate destination (which is also why Madrid got theirs - more corp. biz.)

Worth mentioning it took two decades for Orlando to get their FS, and Tampa hasn´t gotten one despite trying for 12 or more years.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: comncense on April 19, 2018, 07:45:49 AM
Looks like JIA leaked the new uniforms


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbHVVVbW4AEZANe.jpg)
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: MusicMan on April 19, 2018, 08:25:29 AM
Do NFL Franchise owners pay an annual tax on the value of the franchise?

I'm thinking NO even though it's basically a cash flowing business. And I assume they pay taxes on any surplus revenue they earn in any given year.

And is it fair that an owner of an apartment complex or business pays an annual tax on their assets but an NFL franchise owner would not?
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: pierre on April 19, 2018, 08:33:18 AM
From the renderings I saw (and will be shown today), there is a building located on the Met Park property that looks like a hotel/condo tower and it has a 4 Seasons type look.

I am really looking forward to the comments in this forum to what is shown today. Very grand plans from the Jaguars.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 19, 2018, 08:54:13 AM
On the other hand, I don´t think anyone visiting JAX would pay FS rates, unless it´s corp biz...

This.

To both of your points, active dialogue definitely doesn't mean that it's going to happen.

I just know that Khan is very optimistic about it, especially in the last few weeks.

Is it viable though?

I think we're quite a ways off.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 19, 2018, 08:57:03 AM
I am really looking forward to the comments in this forum to what is shown today. Very grand plans from the Jaguars.

Can't wait!

I want to know more, but I respect your discretion :)

2 hours to go.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 19, 2018, 09:43:38 AM
Its not listed in the article. But I noticed something in the schedule for this week that was tweeted out by the Jags PR guy.

It said Thursday, as part of the State of the Franchise, there would be a "Momentous Live Music Announcement".

My bet is Lynyrd Skynyrd multiple dates at Dailys Place before either the home opener or Jags-Patriots matchup.

Lynyrd Skynyrd is correct.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaxJersey-licious on April 19, 2018, 10:24:38 AM
Was hoping they would also announce the Eagles-Jags game would be moved up to prime time in England for a 1:00 start in the states but apparently it's locked in to 9:30 AM October 28. Missed opportunity there but at least it's an exclusive audience.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 19, 2018, 11:00:01 AM
Event is live on Jaguars.com now.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: pierre on April 19, 2018, 11:03:41 AM
They are streaming on Facebook also
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: pierre on April 19, 2018, 11:23:51 AM
Laying the groundwork for major stadium renovations...
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 19, 2018, 11:35:14 AM
"Before we get to the good stuff, who wants to see some linear regression!"
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 19, 2018, 11:43:06 AM
Jaguars adding a dogpark to the stadium on the south deck.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Captain Zissou on April 19, 2018, 11:54:59 AM
Jaguars adding a dogpark to the stadium on the south deck.

Y Tho?
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: pierre on April 19, 2018, 12:04:26 PM
Here are the good parts
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 19, 2018, 12:12:58 PM
Jags partnering with Cordish on up to $2 billion in new development, starting with Lot J.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: FlaBoy on April 19, 2018, 12:13:18 PM
Looks like they want a convention center possibly across the street from Lot J with a new upscale hotel and some office/residential.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: thelakelander on April 19, 2018, 12:15:04 PM
Hmm. So parking garage, office space, some sort of live arena, hotel and retail mixed in on Lot J? I also see the bridge design has changed. The elevated bike/ped part will remain a highway. No visible incorporation of JTA's AV stuff either.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: thelakelander on April 19, 2018, 12:18:00 PM
Looks like they want a convention center possibly across the street from Lot J with a new upscale hotel and some office/residential.
I don't see a convention center on the rendering they released.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on April 19, 2018, 12:21:22 PM
That rendering is unbelievable, wow if only 
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 19, 2018, 12:22:20 PM
Looks like they want a convention center possibly across the street from Lot J with a new upscale hotel and some office/residential.

From the renderings, it looks more like a hotel with exhibition space than a convention center proper.

Two serious bidders for the courthouse site is the word on the street.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: FlaBoy on April 19, 2018, 12:25:48 PM
Looks like they want a convention center possibly across the street from Lot J with a new upscale hotel and some office/residential.

From the renderings, it looks more like a hotel with exhibition space than a convention center proper.

Two serious bidders for the courthouse site is the word on the street.

For sure. Lamping literally said, "convention space and potentially convention center..."
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: pierre on April 19, 2018, 12:35:52 PM
That rendering is unbelievable, wow if only 

It's certainly impressive.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Lostwave on April 19, 2018, 12:43:52 PM
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/800/41562847881_8a651801cb_b.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/904/26694365207_8b3db7fd86_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: minder on April 19, 2018, 12:46:55 PM
I'll believe it when I see......cement.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 19, 2018, 12:54:42 PM
I'm really skeptical that there's a market for more office space downtown. The stadium district should focus on apartments instead.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Lostwave on April 19, 2018, 12:59:05 PM
I'm really skeptical that there's a market for more office space downtown. The stadium district should focus on apartments instead.

A lot of it will be apartments.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 19, 2018, 01:01:16 PM
I'm really skeptical that there's a market for more office space downtown. The stadium district should focus on apartments instead.

A lot of it will be apartments.

Good, good. It says "office" in the renderings I saw, but I'm unable to watch it live.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: minder on April 19, 2018, 01:16:55 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbKHiHFW4AAEPom.jpg)
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaxAvondale on April 19, 2018, 01:18:32 PM
I'm really skeptical that there's a market for more office space downtown. The stadium district should focus on apartments instead.

A lot of it will be apartments.

Good, good. It says "office" in the renderings I saw, but I'm unable to watch it live.

Lamping said that the mix would be whatever the market commanded.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Lostwave on April 19, 2018, 01:20:15 PM
I'm really skeptical that there's a market for more office space downtown. The stadium district should focus on apartments instead.

A lot of it will be apartments.

Good, good. It says "office" in the renderings I saw, but I'm unable to watch it live.

The first phase around the Live! facility will be office and hotel, but the part by the water will be lots apts.  Plus in the future phase where lot M and N are, will be all residential (if that ever gets built)
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 19, 2018, 01:27:04 PM
I'm really skeptical that there's a market for more office space downtown. The stadium district should focus on apartments instead.

A lot of it will be apartments.

Good, good. It says "office" in the renderings I saw, but I'm unable to watch it live.

The first phase around the Live! facility will be office and hotel, but the part by the water will be lots apts.  Plus in the future phase where lot M and N are, will be all residential (if that ever gets built)

It's the "offices" by Daily's Place that concern me. That's what ought to be apartments, unless they have some specific tenant in mind, but it doesn't sound like that's the case.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 19, 2018, 02:03:14 PM
I'd consider everything that we saw today to be purely conceptual.

I have no doubt the Jaguars are going to build something on Lot J, but it probably won't look anything like what's pictured in the renders.

Lamping used a lot of qualifiers about market conditions, and about the state of the land, and used a lot of vague language about how, "this might go here, or that might go there."

Plus, it sounds like Cordish (who wasn't involved with the renders) will ultimately design the complex.

And everything south of the Hart Bridge ramps seemed to be more of a PR-ish, "this is the type of thing we could do if the state/city would remove the ramps" kind of thing, rather than an actual site plan.

Great concept, great presentation, but personally, I would have liked a little less sizzle and a little more steak. I think I would have been more excited to learn more about the short-term plan for Lot J and see some detailed renders from Cordish than to see our third set of rearranged Shipyards renders. Would have also liked to know what the timetable was for assessing the condition of Lot J, and at what stage of development the garage would be necessary (3,000 spots over an existing retention pond would have to cost upward of $60 million).

Would also have liked a true update, maybe from Curry, on how and when the $25 million currently allocated for ramp removal will be used, as well as how and when Shipyards remediation would begin.

Hard to get too excited about anything south of the ramps when we're looking at 3+ years, best case scenario, before construction can even begin. Who knows what the market will look like at that time.

That said, the Cordish partnership is a genuinely huge, if expected, announcement.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 19, 2018, 02:26:10 PM
Here are the renders, in case anyone missed them:

(https://s31.postimg.cc/4igryvmnf/Db_KF1s_IVMAAvvl_C.jpg)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/lizo7k7ej/Db_KF2_Rg_U8_AEHa_Hi.jpg)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/lvr2dqa8r/Db_KF0x_SVQAAk7_7.jpg)
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Downtown Osprey on April 19, 2018, 02:34:56 PM
^^ I agree with the statements above. I don't even get excited anymore looking at this renderings. It's been an on-going theme now with these state of the unions. Give me something more realistic.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 19, 2018, 02:40:37 PM
Also, big props to Shad Khan.

Iguana has perhaps the most to gain of anyone by the type of windfall that arise from a JEA sale.

Quote
Shad Khan: Selling JEA is a Terrible Idea

Shad Khan, the billionaire owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars and the most important man in the city’s economic development efforts, said Thursday it would be a “terrible idea” to privatize the city-owned electric and water utility, adding a highly influential — if unlikely — voice into the contentious debate.

It’s not the first time Khan — who made the comments during the team’s State of the Franchise event — has weighed in on a divisive city issue. His influence was thought to have been a key reason the city expanded its anti-discrimination law last year to include LGBT residents, and his views on politics have at times been in the national spotlight.

“JEA should stay the way it is,” Khan said. “I have seen this all over the country when you have something that is really a public entity like that getting privatized [it] doesn’t work well for the residents.

“Nobody has asked me, but I think it ought to stay the way it is.”

Full story: http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180419/shad-khan-selling-jea-is-terrible-idea
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: pierre on April 19, 2018, 02:48:18 PM
Good to hear from Khan
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Lostwave on April 19, 2018, 02:52:16 PM
I would think the first thing we would see is the Parking Garage get built.  Otherwise we would lose all that parking for a few seasons until it is.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: minder on April 19, 2018, 03:08:46 PM
This proposal looks like it potentially dwarves other Cordish projects like Ballpark Village in St. Louis.

Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 19, 2018, 03:28:40 PM
I'd consider everything that we saw today to be purely conceptual.

I have no doubt the Jaguars are going to build something on Lot J, but it probably won't look anything like what's pictured in the renders.

Lamping used a lot of qualifiers about market conditions, and about the state of the land, and used a lot of vague language about how, "this might go here, or that might go there."

Plus, it sounds like Cordish (who wasn't involved with the renders) will ultimately design the complex.

And everything south of the Hart Bridge ramps seemed to be more of a PR-ish, "this is the type of thing we could do if the state/city would remove the ramps" kind of thing, rather than an actual site plan.

Great concept, great presentation, but personally, I would have liked a little less sizzle and a little more steak. I think I would have been more excited to learn more about the short-term plan for Lot J and see some detailed renders from Cordish than to see our third set of rearranged Shipyards renders. Would have also liked to know what the timetable was for assessing the condition of Lot J, and at what stage of development the garage would be necessary (3,000 spots over an existing retention pond would have to cost upward of $60 million).

Would also have liked a true update, maybe from Curry, on how and when the $25 million currently allocated for ramp removal will be used, as well as how and when Shipyards remediation would begin.

Hard to get too excited about anything south of the ramps when we're looking at 3+ years, best case scenario, before construction can even begin. Who knows what the market will look like at that time.

That said, the Cordish partnership is a genuinely huge, if expected, announcement.

Excellent post, Ken. Well put.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: martt12 on April 19, 2018, 03:56:59 PM
What’s supposed to be behind the Veterans Memorial Wall? I see buildings connected.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: minder on April 19, 2018, 03:58:35 PM
http://cordish.com/portfolio/jacksonville-sports-complex

Some better quality images and a tad more information on here. You can also see their other projects.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: vicupstate on April 19, 2018, 04:37:37 PM
It sounds to me that no real progress has occurred and they just threw something together because this State of the Franchise event had rolled around again.

It is all based on the 'market'. Well the market is not deficient in any area: retail, residential, office or hospitality.

One thing that really stuck out: how is there going to be a Convention Center on this site AND one at the old courthouse? 

All that said, I give props to Khan for his comments on JEA.  I would have never expected that.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 19, 2018, 05:55:10 PM
More details:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/khans-new-neighborhood-dollar2-5-billion-vision-for-area-surrounding-stadium

Obviously a public-private partnership, with the city, Jags, and Cordish pitching in.

Encouraging to hear that Beyer, Blinder and Bell is responsible for the master plan.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: heights unknown on April 19, 2018, 08:15:01 PM
That rendering is awe inspiring not to mention breathtaking. Hope it comes to fruition, and I understand that even if any or all of this is approved, it will be constructed in phases. It just seems weird to me that Kahn is building up around the stadium taking up land that was once surface parking lots, and yes the smart thing to do would be to construct parking garages to cover the loss of surface parking, and do that first before commencing with the rest of the development/construction. Looks like a mini urban core or downtown apart from the real urban core west of the stadium. It appears that they want, and are yearning for density in our downtown which includes all types of business, and, office towers were mentioned, but density is the thing that caught my ear/eye that they mentioned; yes, get rid of all of those surface parking lots and fill them in with restaurants, offices, residential towers and residences, stores, and office towers. It appears that Jax finally is on the way. I turned 61 last October and will soon be 62, and I just hope I last and live long enough to see Jax finally mature and come of age...unless, God forbid, we get nuked or some foolish stupid event happens caused by our leaders...GO JACKSONVILLE!!!
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: MusicMan on April 20, 2018, 08:29:30 AM
I'm a big fan of Shad Khan but can anyone explain to me why his Florida residence is in Naples, not Jacksonville?

That makes no sense to me.

I also like how his yacht is prominently featured in the renderings!

Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Jagsdrew on April 20, 2018, 09:00:22 AM
I love the renderings but this isn't happening this decade. It's going to take a lot of time. To add to Ken's point, it was a lot of general terms as far as development and scope. I'd be keen to understand first the conditions of the soil which would ultimately set the timelines and budget for the whole project.  What we saw was the fully loaded vehicle in the car commercial but that's not the one that's affordable by most.

Notice how the shipyards weren't part of the presentation? I think they have a better understanding of the shipyards' condition but most importantly they want to have as much development near the stadium to benefit their venues. They want the stadium/Daily's place to be the core and work out from there.  Stadium/Daily's Place -> Lot J -> Met Park -> Shipyards -> Downtown.

Did the mayor/city have any reaction to the recent plans? I'm interested to see their initial response.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Jagsdrew on April 20, 2018, 09:09:32 AM
I'm a big fan of Shad Khan but can anyone explain to me why his Florida residence is in Naples, not Jacksonville?

That makes no sense to me.

I also like how his yacht is prominently featured in the renderings!

I think a lot of people don't understand Shad outside of the Jaguars. He is first and foremost a businessman at his company Flex N Gate.  He spends the majority of this time traveling around the world for business meeting with car companies, distributors and manufacturers.  If he's in the states, its not in Jacksonville, rather his HQ in Champaign, Illinois where Flex N Gate is headquartered.  He is not in Jacksonville much.  If you see his boat parked downtown, doesn't mean he's in Jacksonville.  The yacht operates on a schedule so it might be parked there for 3 weeks, but he will only be in Jax for 3 days. I'm sure he is in Jax one more day today and he will be off somewhere by EOD.

The Jaguars are one of his other businesses but he appointed Mark Lamping to run the business operation and Tom Coughlin to run the football operation.  This setup is TOTALLY different than the Weaver's when Wayne was overseeing in full capacity the business and football operation on a day-to-day basis.

Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: CityLife on April 20, 2018, 09:18:46 AM
Khan likely has his Florida base in Naples as a winter home. When it is 40 in Jacksonville in the winter, it is 70 in South Florida. There are also better beaches, boating, opportunities for networking with other ultra wealthy, and private clubs. The ultra wealthy in Florida tend to live in Miami, Palm Beach, Jupiter, and Naples, where they can be around other ultra wealthy people and where there is infrastructure to support their lifestyles.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 20, 2018, 10:04:49 AM
I believe Naples is Khan's primary residence, but yes, he's probably there mainly in the winter months. We're insulated from the whole snowbird thing a lot in Jax as we're pretty year-round, so it's easy to forget how phenomenally lame much of the rest of the state is. SW Florida especially is mainly a haven for retirees and rich northern boat owners. But yes, the Jags account for only about $1.5 billion of his $7 billion dollars (though it's the most high profile part of his empire).

I never understood why Khan doesn't just buy a penthouse here for when he's in town. Using the yacht means planning it out months in advance (and it would take weeks or months to get anywhere else) or renting a place short term. Buying a suite would have to be chump change for him. But it's his prerogative.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 20, 2018, 10:17:53 AM
What's such a lost opportunity with this whole thing is that it should be on the riverfront, not in a parking lot. Estimates for full Shipyards remediation (cleaning the entire property for any use) are around $35 million. The city is already sitting on $13 million earmarked specifically for that purpose, meaning we'd need to come up with $22 million more to get the land shovel ready.

How long have we been sitting on that money, and on the Shipyards, without doing anything to make the property development ready?

Now, instead of spending $22 million to activate the riverfront with a Cordish development, we're looking at spending $60+ million on a 3,000 space parking garage, because the only developable land in the vicinity is the existing stadium parking lot.

Even if some of those parking spots are net new, you've got to think that remediating the Shipyards would be comparable, if not cheaper, than replacing the Lot J parking with a garage. Even if you cleaned up the whole property and figured out use later.

All that said, still a super exciting project, still great for Jacksonville, hopefully we learn a lesson from it.

A few more tidbits that I've picked up:

- The strong, strong desire from the Jaguars is office space, rather than residential, for most of the Lot J tower space. To Bill's point about there not being a market for new office space downtown, the thought is to use the development to lure new business to Jacksonville, perhaps internationally.

- Unlike the Shipyards, the Jags have zero concern about the condition of Lot J. They'd done enough testing to be convinced that construction can be underway in less than 12 months.

- Lot J likely won't be phased. The desire is to build it all out in one shot.

Quote
Did the mayor/city have any reaction to the recent plans? I'm interested to see their initial response.

Curry's been on board for almost a year, since his clandestine trip to meet with Cordish and tour their properties in Baltimore, St. Louis, and Kansas City. He was on the phone with Sam Mousa before the plane even landed looking at ways to find the capital for the project. I think all parties involves (rightfully) do what it takes to make it happen.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 20, 2018, 10:29:30 AM
What's such a lost opportunity with this whole thing is that it should be on the riverfront, not in a parking lot. Estimates for full Shipyards remediation (cleaning the entire property for any use) are around $35 million. The city is already sitting on $13 million earmarked specifically for that purpose, meaning we'd need to come up with $22 million more to get the land shovel ready.

How long have we been sitting on that money, and on the Shipyards, without doing anything to make the property development ready?

Now, instead of spending $22 million to activate the riverfront with a Cordish development, we're looking at spending $60+ million on a 3,000 space parking garage, because the only developable land in the vicinity is the existing stadium parking lot.

Even if some of those parking spots are net new, you've got to think that remediating the Shipyards would be comparable, if not cheaper, than replacing the Lot J parking with a garage. Even if you cleaned up the whole property and figured out use later.

All that said, still a super exciting project, still great for Jacksonville, hopefully we learn a lesson from it.

A few more tidbits that I've picked up:

- The strong, strong desire from the Jaguars is office space, rather than residential, for most of the Lot J tower space. To Bill's point about there not being a market for new office space downtown, the thought is to use the development to lure new business to Jacksonville, perhaps internationally.

- Unlike the Shipyards, the Jags have zero concern about the condition of Lot J. They'd done enough testing to be convinced that construction can be underway in less than 12 months.

- Lot J likely won't be phased. The desire is to build it all out in one shot.

Quote
Did the mayor/city have any reaction to the recent plans? I'm interested to see their initial response.

Curry's been on board for almost a year, since his clandestine trip to meet with Cordish and tour their properties in Baltimore, St. Louis, and Kansas City. He was on the phone with Sam Mousa before the plane even landed looking at ways to find the capital for the project. I think all parties involves (rightfully) do what it takes to make it happen.

The parking lots were always laid out to make future development possible since the current stadium was built. A garage and buildings is a better use of space than a huge empty lot. I don't see any problem with developments there.

As to office space, I really doubt there's demand for more office space in the urban core even if it does involve new companies. Unless it's specific new companies that want space built out ad hoc, but it doesn't sound like that's the case. Methinks this is still very conceptual.

Lot J is also contaminated, and I doubt we know the full extent of it. Again, conceptual.

I do expect that we'll see parts of this come along sooner or later. The partnership with Cordish suggests we'll get a "Live!" at some point. We'll also probably get the garage before anything else. But we're many years off on any of the other stuff.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: thelakelander on April 20, 2018, 11:10:46 AM
Live! and the garage are about half of it. They'd need a garage regardless of if it were riverfront or a parking lot on Lot J. The site on Lot J is much better, IMO. Actually, the Lot J concept as a whole is better than what has been shown on previous Shipyards concepts. It sucks up a ton of surface parking (great thing) and is more realistic in conceptual layout. However, neither is realistic for Jax's market unless he's moving Flex n Gate's headquarters to town to consume all that office space. Also they probably prefer office over residential because of noise associated with nearby events and concerts.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: CityLife on April 20, 2018, 11:51:57 AM
Good points Lake. I think strategically it's smart to go for office in earlier phases. Fairly common in large mixed use projects to have office as a driver of the overall development. For this project to succeed, Khan has to essentially create a new market out of thin air. There is not significant demand for luxury residential, retail, dining in DT, particularly by the stadium. Nor is there a shortage of office space downtown. With the amount of money Khan has to his name, and the amount he stands to gain by the redevelopment, he can provide substantial discounts or incentives to lure in a new HQ or corporate relocations that would not ordinarily come to DT Jax. If he is able to pull in one or two, the chips start to fall into place for everything else.

That said, I still have some doubts about the viability of the project. I think a lot of it rests on how committed Khan is to making it happen. If he is in it for the long term, and creates spectacular amenities, public spaces, and world class design, as well as subsidies to initial users; this can happen earlier than people realize. I just hope it is geared towards a realistic market, not the aforementioned ultra wealthy, Four Seasons type users.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: thelakelander on April 20, 2018, 12:02:40 PM
Dan Gilbert improved the DT Detroit market for his dreams by relocating his company's headquarters there. That's one thing Khan can do, although he probably doesn't want the negative impact it would cause in Illinois.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaxVision on April 20, 2018, 12:30:09 PM
I dont know the logistics of what these organizations and companies need but in the rendering there are two smaller office buildings near potential apartments between TIAA Field and the Baseball Grounds. These buildings could be home offices to the Jax sports council and other smaller sport organizations in Jax like the Sharks, Icemen, Armada. The other Building could become the HQ for our very own Jax based Fanatics as they are the official merch supplier for all major sports teams in the country.

The Lot J area could get a international company to come in. I know a lot of business is moving HQs to campuses or they dont need a lot of space DT but Khan has connections to London and other countries that could land someone we aren't thinking about to make North America HQ here. Either way it will be some time as we have seen projects in the past never develop or just take years to break ground.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 20, 2018, 12:56:50 PM
^I don't think this will ever happen. Khan's extremely sentimental about Urbana (where he moved from Pakistan to attend college and later headquartered Flex N' Gate), he considers Chicago to be his home, and his political and economic ties in Illinois dwarf his Jacksonville ties ten times over. Flex N' Gate has economic incentives on top of economic incentives where they're at, and actually partner with the state of Illinois on certain facilities. I think there's a better chance of seeing the Urbana jaguars before we see Jacksonville Flex N' Gate.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: thelakelander on April 20, 2018, 01:24:12 PM
Yes that's basically how I feel about this project, the Shipyards in general, the District and JTA's Skyway modification proposal as currently constructed. All fool's gold that's years away from reality or ever happening as illustrated and being marketed. For the development proposals, Jax couldn't fill that much combined new office and luxury residential space now even if it wanted too. For the Skyway, the application of the technology doesn't appear to fit with the reality of the environmental context. At this point, my excitement remains with the smaller short term viable projects that luckily continue moving forward.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: RattlerGator on April 20, 2018, 02:25:17 PM
Leave the board for months at a time and come back to the same skepticism. Seems like only yesterday many here were saying there's no way they're taking down that roadway, there's no way the state is kicking in money in the short term to take down that roadway, there's no way, no way, no way.

((( sigh )))

One thing we may need to hope for is with Trump's winning strategy (y'all doubted that, too) and with multiple foreign corporations now needing a greater American presence to avoid tariffs, etc., that some outfit (or three) now in London or elsewhere will set up shop in this new development.

The Jaguars have confidently presented a $2.5 billion plan, introduced the Cordish Company to us, and told us Beyer Blinder Belle Architects & Planners LLP developed the master development plan.

They aren't blowing smoke. It's going to happen. The riverfront is proving to be too much of an immediate headache. Spend that money on Lot J now, get the development rolling, focus that riverfront more on park space -- remediation becomes a much, much simpler problem then.

Density, density, density -- right? Y'all should be jumping for joy. Density we will get.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 20, 2018, 02:32:43 PM
Leave the board for months at a time and come back to the same skepticism. Seems like only yesterday many here were saying there's no way they're taking down that roadway, there's no way the state is kicking in money in the short term to take down that roadway, there's no way, no way, no way.

((( sigh )))

One thing we may need to hope for is with Trump's winning strategy (y'all doubted that, too) and with multiple foreign corporations now needing a greater American presence to avoid tariffs, etc., that some outfit (or three) now in London or elsewhere will set up shop in this new development.

The Jaguars have confidently presented a $2.5 billion plan, introduced the Cordish Company to us, and told us Beyer Blinder Belle Architects & Planners LLP developed the master development plan.

They aren't blowing smoke. It's going to happen. The riverfront is proving to be too much of an immediate headache. Spend that money on Lot J now, get the development rolling, focus that riverfront more on park space -- remediation becomes a much, much simpler problem then.

Density, density, density -- right? Y'all should be jumping for joy. Density we will get.

Folks have been banging that gong for years, and we're still not close to any of this stuff happening.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: thelakelander on April 20, 2018, 02:48:57 PM
Hasn't it been like two years since the idea of demolishing the Hart ramps first hit the press? We're still years away from seeing that street plan in the renderings become reality. Btw, I like the Lot J renderings. I'm just a realist in that the master plan shown won't be built.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: MusicMan on April 20, 2018, 10:56:02 PM
If there's one thing we've learned, a snails pace is faster than Jacksonville's pace.  Wasn't it 1000 days ago Peter Rummell was awarded development right to the JEA South Bank parcel, and he hasn't even closed on the real estate YET.......................

RattlerGator has a long streak of mis-predicting things, so don't hold your breath.

"Trump's winning strategy", did that include the first Democratic Senator from Alabama in 25 years?
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: heights unknown on April 21, 2018, 12:28:59 AM
I'm a big fan of Shad Khan but can anyone explain to me why his Florida residence is in Naples, not Jacksonville?

That makes no sense to me.

I also like how his yacht is prominently featured in the renderings!

I think a lot of people don't understand Shad outside of the Jaguars. He is first and foremost a businessman at his company Flex N Gate.  He spends the majority of this time traveling around the world for business meeting with car companies, distributors and manufacturers.  If he's in the states, its not in Jacksonville, rather his HQ in Champaign, Illinois where Flex N Gate is headquartered.  He is not in Jacksonville much.  If you see his boat parked downtown, doesn't mean he's in Jacksonville.  The yacht operates on a schedule so it might be parked there for 3 weeks, but he will only be in Jax for 3 days. I'm sure he is in Jax one more day today and he will be off somewhere by EOD.

The Jaguars are one of his other businesses but he appointed Mark Lamping to run the business operation and Tom Coughlin to run the football operation.  This setup is TOTALLY different than the Weaver's when Wayne was overseeing in full capacity the business and football operation on a day-to-day basis.


Makes sense to me; how did you acquire this info? But it makes a lot of BUSINESS sense!
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: jaxjags on April 21, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
Did a little on line research. In KC Cordish  has opened the One Light, a 26 story luxury apartment building. The rents I could find are $2.00 sq. ft. or $1615 for a 809 sq. ft. one bedroom. Can Jax support those kinds of rents. Also there we city incentives. The article implies these incentives were $3 million more than the ones below.

Light Two is under construction and the KC Business Journal provided this:

1. 300 units in 18 stories over top a 6 story garage, retail and office space.
2. $105 million total and Cordish is covering $88 million.
3. City is paying approx. $17 million (although my calculation puts it closer to $20 million)
4. Incentive is $27,260 per parking space and $16,666 per apartment unit.
5. Rents also in the $1.90-$2.00 per sq. ft.

In this set-up City and Cordish providing the equity. Where would Iguana fit in at Lot J?

Just a few thoughts and questions.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: vicupstate on April 21, 2018, 01:15:31 PM
^^ How does $2 a foot compare to The Strand? That is the closest comparable.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: thelakelander on April 21, 2018, 05:37:10 PM
^Closer to $1.50 than $2.00. If Jax could really support a glut of rents at $2/square foot, there would be cranes all over downtown. It can't, which is why incentives are needed for projects despite the low vacancy rates.

https://www.thestrandjacksonville.com/jacksonville/the-strand/
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: billy on April 22, 2018, 06:26:52 AM
Will there ever be a Flex N Gate plant in Duval County?
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: RattlerGator on April 22, 2018, 07:52:26 AM
If there's one thing we've learned, a snails pace is faster than Jacksonville's pace.  Wasn't it 1000 days ago Peter Rummell was awarded development right to the JEA South Bank parcel, and he hasn't even closed on the real estate YET.......................

RattlerGator has a long streak of mis-predicting things, so don't hold your breath.

"Trump's winning strategy", did that include the first Democratic Senator from Alabama in 25 years?

Ahhhh, I'm basking in the love. Basking, I tellz ya. A long streak? Okay, but the fact that Donald Trump as *your* President is problematic gives me great satisfaction. Day 458 of the Trump Administration -- is that, too, a long streak MM ? ? ?

I also love how people on this board, apparently versed in development processes, conveniently forget how that process plays out over years . . . when necessary for snark. But MusicMan, I'll get back with you after the midterms on that winning strategy. So far, I'm sitting pretty. BIGLY pretty, if you knows what I meanz.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: RattlerGator on April 22, 2018, 08:03:57 AM
Hasn't it been like two years since the idea of demolishing the Hart ramps first hit the press? We're still years away from seeing that street plan in the renderings become reality. Btw, I like the Lot J renderings. I'm just a realist in that the master plan shown won't be built.

Years away, Ennis? I'm curious: how many years would you say? Because I seem to remember you (or someone else here, I'm getting old -- if necessary, forgive me) insinuating we wouldn't be getting *any* state money for that, or certainly not money any time soon . . . and we now have it. Nor would we get federal money any time soon. And, Ennis, we're going to get that federal money too. Soon. Take that to the bank.

So . . . how many years, my man?

And I ask that from this perspective: you seem to have accepted that it *will* get done. So the glass has moved from half-empty to half-full. Progress, at last. Congratulations!

As for the renderings: it isn't unusual, is it, for the end product to not perfectly reflect the master plan? I mean, Shad Khan's team have been masters of get-her-done flexibility but I don't sense much dap being given here for that. It's a tremendously positive sign for Jacksonville that such a positive, professional skillset resides with the owner of our NFL franchise . . . and our Mayor.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 22, 2018, 08:29:04 AM
Hasn't it been like two years since the idea of demolishing the Hart ramps first hit the press? We're still years away from seeing that street plan in the renderings become reality. Btw, I like the Lot J renderings. I'm just a realist in that the master plan shown won't be built.

Years away, Ennis? I'm curious: how many years would you say? Because I seem to remember you (or someone else here, I'm getting old -- if necessary, forgive me) insinuating we wouldn't be getting *any* state money for that, or certainly not money any time soon . . . and we now have it. Nor would we get federal money any time soon. And, Ennis, we're going to get that federal money too. Soon. Take that to the bank.

So . . . how many years, my man?

And I ask that from this perspective: you seem to have accepted that it *will* get done. So the glass has moved from half-empty to half-full. Progress, at last. Congratulations!

As for the renderings: it isn't unusual, is it, for the end product to not perfectly reflect the master plan? I mean, Shad Khan's team have been masters of get-her-done flexibility but I don't sense much dap being given here for that. It's a tremendously positive sign for Jacksonville that such a positive, professional skillset resides with the owner of our NFL franchise . . . and our Mayor.

Looking at just the ramps, it’s been a year and a half and we’re still trying to put the money together. Nothing south of Gator Bowl Blvd happens without that. And that’s not the only hurdle. If not years, how long do you think it’ll take?
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: thelakelander on April 22, 2018, 09:02:34 AM
Hasn't it been like two years since the idea of demolishing the Hart ramps first hit the press? We're still years away from seeing that street plan in the renderings become reality. Btw, I like the Lot J renderings. I'm just a realist in that the master plan shown won't be built.

Years away, Ennis? I'm curious: how many years would you say? Because I seem to remember you (or someone else here, I'm getting old -- if necessary, forgive me) insinuating we wouldn't be getting *any* state money for that, or certainly not money any time soon . . . and we now have it. Nor would we get federal money any time soon. And, Ennis, we're going to get that federal money too. Soon. Take that to the bank.

So . . . how many years, my man?

I said that around 2 years ago and we still don't have the money to actually physically start demolishing. Hell, we still need to do a PD&E study. If we're lucky, maybe in five years or so, we'll be seeing this project wrap up. So add them up and that's 7 years since the original announcement.  So yes, we're years away.

Quote
And I ask that from this perspective: you seem to have accepted that it *will* get done. So the glass has moved from half-empty to half-full. Progress, at last. Congratulations!

Accepted what? Eventually the bridge would have to be rebuilt or torn down anyway. The idea of demolishing it didn't begin with Curry and Khan. That's been something I've heard in local planning circles since I moved to Jax back in 2003.

Quote
As for the renderings: it isn't unusual, is it, for the end product to not perfectly reflect the master plan? I mean, Shad Khan's team have been masters of get-her-done flexibility but I don't sense much dap being given here for that. It's a tremendously positive sign for Jacksonville that such a positive, professional skillset resides with the owner of our NFL franchise . . . and our Mayor.

I have no problem with the concept. I think some people here expect things to happen overnight if Curry and Khan snap their fingers and that's why there may be some disappointment in the conceptual nature of what's illustrated every year. They're realizing what some of us already know....we're years away from seeing this stuff actually being built and completed.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: I-10east on April 22, 2018, 08:53:46 PM
Those new unis are SO bland. They chose to put teal (JAX's favorite color) on the back burner again, just like before...The only thing concerning the new unis that they got right was the all black helmet. They should have left the unis alone, and change the two tone helmet to what we have now. Overwhelmingly, hardly anyone was clamoring for a full uni change, mainly Shad and Coughlin. #moneygrab
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaGoaT on April 22, 2018, 09:36:15 PM
They’re going to start putting brands on NFL jerseys like soccer jerseys that’s why the new uniforms are so bland.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: RattlerGator on April 23, 2018, 07:56:44 AM
It won't be anything close to five years, Ennis. They have the money for the PD&E and you have noticed, I presume, that Trump is President.

Things will move faster, much faster unless there is some incredible crash . . . and I know y'all aren't hoping for that.

Right?
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: thelakelander on April 23, 2018, 08:36:00 AM
A PD&E study alone could take a couple of years to complete! It's not as simple as securing money (which we still don't have what's necessary). Even with 100% funds, there's still a timeline associated with the process.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 23, 2018, 09:17:23 AM
^Yeah, I'm totally prepared to bet one Aardwolf beer of choice that this thing is not built out come April 2023.

We know it won't get started next year, as they're planning on selling parking passes for Lot J for the 2019 season.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 24, 2018, 05:38:57 PM
^Weird, I've heard that they're targeting somewhere between summer and fall 2019 to begin Lot J construction, but I guess they might start with the garage.

Like I mentioned previously, I'm also continuing to hear that office space, not residential or hotel, is what Khan/Lamping consider to be the key to Lot J.

Whether there's a market for it is clearly a whole different matter, but the magic number that the Jags are targeting is 2,000 jobs in and around Lot J, between office and service.

Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: thelakelander on April 24, 2018, 06:11:55 PM
It's not like this city is Manhattan. Both the District and the Jags proposals include a lot of office space. There's also a ton of empty office space in the Northbank. Which one will win and who will miss out?
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: MusicMan on April 25, 2018, 08:40:28 AM
Jacksonville Chamber of Commerce should set up a satellite office in Silicon Valley and start recruiting corporations to consider relocating to Jacksonville.

Not sure how we landed Fidelity but there have to be plenty of candidates for relocation out there who would love the idea of "cheap" land, no state income tax, and affordable lifestyle choices for their employees.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 25, 2018, 10:05:50 AM
It's not like this city is Manhattan. Both the District and the Jags proposals include a lot of office space. There's also a ton of empty office space in the Northbank. Which one will win and who will miss out?

Call me an optimist, but if and when new office space opens up at Lot J and/or District, I think it will come at the expense of the suburbs, not the Northbank. The suburban market has already started to get really tight, particularly in the last year, with limited options and escalating prices. Rising tides have a tendency to raise all ships, and as downtown improves and new projects like these are potentially built out, I'd hope that all office space downtown would become more desirable, not just the newly added space.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 25, 2018, 10:56:15 AM
It's not like this city is Manhattan. Both the District and the Jags proposals include a lot of office space. There's also a ton of empty office space in the Northbank. Which one will win and who will miss out?

Call me an optimist, but if and when new office space opens up at Lot J and/or District, I think it will come at the expense of the suburbs, not the Northbank. The suburban market has already started to get really tight, particularly in the last year, with limited options and escalating prices. Rising tides have a tendency to raise all ships, and as downtown improves and new projects like these are potentially built out, I'd hope that all office space downtown would become more desirable, not just the newly added space.

Downtown still has an office vacancy rate of 12.5%. The market isn't exactly bursting at the seems right now.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on April 25, 2018, 11:36:55 AM
One assumes that Iguana and Rummell have designs on luring companies to relocate not just from the suburbs but from outside the market...otherwise the profusion of office space makes no market sense.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 25, 2018, 11:45:39 AM
It's not like this city is Manhattan. Both the District and the Jags proposals include a lot of office space. There's also a ton of empty office space in the Northbank. Which one will win and who will miss out?



Call me an optimist, but if and when new office space opens up at Lot J and/or District, I think it will come at the expense of the suburbs, not the Northbank. The suburban market has already started to get really tight, particularly in the last year, with limited options and escalating prices. Rising tides have a tendency to raise all ships, and as downtown improves and new projects like these are potentially built out, I'd hope that all office space downtown would become more desirable, not just the newly added space.

Downtown still has an office vacancy rate of 12.5%. The market isn't exactly bursting at the seems right now.

Right now, no. If downtown keeps improving at the rate that it is and one or two of these shiny new projects fall into place, I absolutely think the northbank will be able to poach from the 'burbs. The bar has been set very low, for a very long time.

To Wacca's point above, Iguana is absolutely targeting companies outside of market.

And let's not forget that not all of the space will be net new.

JEA is looking for somewhere to put 800 employees, as their existing office tower has reached end-of-life and is likely coming down.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JBTripper on April 25, 2018, 11:57:02 AM
One assumes that Iguana and Rummell have designs on luring companies to relocate not just from the suburbs but from outside the market...otherwise the profusion of office space makes no market sense.

Correct. Khan isn't interested in growing downtown at the expense of the suburbs. That doesn't add value to his investment. Jacksonville currently has no premier, urban, walkable, live/work/play environment necessary to attract the sort of enterprise that recruits young talent from outside of town. So Khan would like to build one next door to the football stadium in order to create a marketplace of NFL fans to sell tickets to. Grow Jacksonville, grow the Jaguars.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 25, 2018, 12:00:23 PM
It's not like this city is Manhattan. Both the District and the Jags proposals include a lot of office space. There's also a ton of empty office space in the Northbank. Which one will win and who will miss out?



Call me an optimist, but if and when new office space opens up at Lot J and/or District, I think it will come at the expense of the suburbs, not the Northbank. The suburban market has already started to get really tight, particularly in the last year, with limited options and escalating prices. Rising tides have a tendency to raise all ships, and as downtown improves and new projects like these are potentially built out, I'd hope that all office space downtown would become more desirable, not just the newly added space.

Downtown still has an office vacancy rate of 12.5%. The market isn't exactly bursting at the seems right now.

Right now, no. If downtown keeps improving at the rate that it is and one or two of these shiny new projects fall into place, I absolutely think the northbank will be able to poach from the 'burbs. The bar has been set very low, for a very long time.

To Wacca's point above, Iguana is absolutely targeting companies outside of market.

And let's not forget that not all of the space will be net new.

JEA is looking for somewhere to put 800 employees, as their existing office tower has reached end-of-life and is likely coming down.

Outside the market is one thing, poaching from our own suburbs is another.

There are very few real businesses in the Jax area outside Duval County, and those in the Duval suburbs are already paying their taxes here. It's not worth the many millions in incentives this project would take if all it accomplishes is moving some company from part of the municipality to another (and still isn't in the downtown core). There are many better ways to invest in downtown development.

What's the evidence that they're recruiting outside companies, especially considering this is all so conjectural right now?
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 25, 2018, 02:07:18 PM
What's the evidence that they're recruiting outside companies, especially considering this is all so conjectural right now?

I read it on Taste of the Town Center.

(https://snag.gy/48Mlzh.jpg)

(or heard from a fairly reliable source that Khan has been pitching businesses on Jacksonville for years, both nationally and internationally, for the Shipyards development, and may have some takers lined up if/when it ever gets built)

Of anyone in this city, Khan is the one guy that I wouldn't underestimate under any circumstance. He's one of the most well-connected men on the planet, with deep ties in London, Chicago, and the Middle East.

I don't think he's spending his own money on an office tower in hopes that Larry's Giant Subs moves in 30 employees.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: thelakelander on April 25, 2018, 07:31:40 PM
It's not like this city is Manhattan. Both the District and the Jags proposals include a lot of office space. There's also a ton of empty office space in the Northbank. Which one will win and who will miss out?



Call me an optimist, but if and when new office space opens up at Lot J and/or District, I think it will come at the expense of the suburbs, not the Northbank. The suburban market has already started to get really tight, particularly in the last year, with limited options and escalating prices. Rising tides have a tendency to raise all ships, and as downtown improves and new projects like these are potentially built out, I'd hope that all office space downtown would become more desirable, not just the newly added space.

Downtown still has an office vacancy rate of 12.5%. The market isn't exactly bursting at the seems right now.

Right now, no. If downtown keeps improving at the rate that it is and one or two of these shiny new projects fall into place, I absolutely think the northbank will be able to poach from the 'burbs. The bar has been set very low, for a very long time.

To Wacca's point above, Iguana is absolutely targeting companies outside of market.

And let's not forget that not all of the space will be net new.

JEA is looking for somewhere to put 800 employees, as their existing office tower has reached end-of-life and is likely coming down.
JEA already has a site in the heart of the Northbank. Assuming they aren't sold, it would be a loss for the Northbank to lose them to either the Shipyards, Lot J or the District.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: thelakelander on April 25, 2018, 07:36:50 PM
What's the evidence that they're recruiting outside companies, especially considering this is all so conjectural right now?

I read it on Taste of the Town Center.

(https://snag.gy/48Mlzh.jpg)

(or heard from a fairly reliable source that Khan has been pitching businesses on Jacksonville for years, both nationally and internationally, for the Shipyards development, and may have some takers lined up if/when it ever gets built)

Of anyone in this city, Khan is the one guy that I wouldn't underestimate under any circumstance. He's one of the most well-connected men on the planet, with deep ties in London, Chicago, and the Middle East.

I don't think he's spending his own money on an office tower in hopes that Larry's Giant Subs moves in 30 employees.
Where did it say that Khan would spend his own money on an office tower? I doubt that happens.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 25, 2018, 08:37:21 PM
JEA already has a site in the heart of the Northbank. Assuming they aren't sold, it would be a loss for the Northbank to lose them to either the Shipyards, Lot J or the District.

Someone might be able to correct me, but to the best of my knowledge, there's no formal agreement in place, and no movement on a land swap has taken place since last summer. JEA and the city agreed that the parcel adjacent to the courthouse would be worth exploring further (JEA was talking about bringing CBRE in to begin due diligence), but I think the sales talk might have temporarily stalled that.

JEA would be a terrible fit for Khan's project (if anyone's spent time there, it's not exactly a Jacksonville Live! crowd), but I could see the District group making a play for JEA. JEA is looking for approximately 200,000 sf. The District is proposing 200,000 square feet.

All that said, JEA and the city work very closely together, and I think it behooves JEA to stay within earshot of City Hall. I bet they take that spot.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: thelakelander on April 25, 2018, 09:55:27 PM
It would behoove the city and its downtown revitalization efforts to keep JEA and its 800 employees in the Northbank. Them moving to the District would be as devastating to the Northbank as them moving to Baymeadows.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 25, 2018, 10:46:58 PM
What's the evidence that they're recruiting outside companies, especially considering this is all so conjectural right now?

I read it on Taste of the Town Center.

(https://snag.gy/48Mlzh.jpg)

(or heard from a fairly reliable source that Khan has been pitching businesses on Jacksonville for years, both nationally and internationally, for the Shipyards development, and may have some takers lined up if/when it ever gets built)

Of anyone in this city, Khan is the one guy that I wouldn't underestimate under any circumstance. He's one of the most well-connected men on the planet, with deep ties in London, Chicago, and the Middle East.

I don't think he's spending his own money on an office tower in hopes that Larry's Giant Subs moves in 30 employees.
Where did it say that Khan would spend his own money on an office tower? I doubt that happens.

Khan’s not spending his own money. The money that’s spent on it will be from the Jags’ budget. Plus whatever we chip in.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 26, 2018, 12:39:53 AM
^From all the language that's been used, it's going to be your classic Cordish development, co-financed by the Jaguars and Cordish, with heavy public subsidy. If past projects are any indication, Cordish will push for incentives totaling 25-30% of project cost, likely financed by using new taxes from within the development to pay off bonds used for construction.

The second phase of Ballpark Village in St. Louis (Mark Lamping oversaw construction of the original BallPark Village) is actually a really interesting case study for Jacksonville. A lot of parallels, including a 10-story office component in downtown St. Louis where the vacancy rate is even higher than downtown Jacksonville (17%). The idea was that the new office space - the first office tower built in downtown St. Louis in 30 years - would add net new jobs to the urban core. What actually ended up happening was Ballpark Village cannibalized other jobs downtown, most notably PricewaterhouseCoopers, who moved their entire St. Louis staff from Bank of America Plaza to Ballpark Village.

It'll be a risky proposal either way, in that Cordish usually positions themselves to where, if a development doesn't take off as expected, the city is still on the hook to make those payments. Kansas City needed to pull millions from their general fund in the middle of the recession for this very reason.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: thelakelander on April 26, 2018, 05:30:46 AM
I get the impression none of this is far along enough in concept to actually know if this master plan will happen, much less what the exact mix of uses will be, how they'll be funded and what the funding mix percentages will shake out too. All we really know is that it will take a ton of public money. Nevertheless, if office space does happen here or at the District (like the Ballpark Village situation) it will likely eat it from another downtown building or company already present in the local area. I'm not saying it shouldn't be pursued because of that. I'm just putting it out there that with real estate, there's typically winners and losers.

Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: CityLife on April 26, 2018, 08:21:42 AM
Regarding office, there has never been a better time to recruit businesses from tax heavy states. The Trump tax plan's cap of $10k on personal state/local income, property, and sales tax is going to lead to a huge migration out of tax heavy states like New York and California. This was already happening pre-Trump tax plan, but is expected to accelerate rapidly.

Khan has the potential to offer brand new, build to suit, Class AA office space on prime real estate. If he, COJ, and the state are willing to offer strong incentives, along with the promise of being part of an exciting mixed-use project, he should have no trouble finding a few large office users from out of state. Khan being a member of the billionaires club gives him access to all kinds of intel and connections, that should make this much easier than you realize. I have a client that is also a multi-billionaire (outside of Jax) and he makes things happen with ease, mostly through his social network and through the ability to float large sums of his own cash to make deals happen. We will see what kind of Mojo Khan really has in the next few years.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Bill Hoff on April 26, 2018, 08:32:26 AM
Looks like he's spending some mojo in England:
http://www.espn.com/soccer/england/story/3472536/fa-receives-offer-to-buy-wembley;-nfl-backs-shad-khan-as-new-owner
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: CityLife on April 26, 2018, 08:42:33 AM
That is some serious Mojo. Wembley is the national stadium in England where they play all of their National Soccer Team games and Cup championships. Hopefully he does not use this as leverage to extort COJ into bending over backwards for anything he wants.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: comncense on April 26, 2018, 08:48:36 AM
Here's a press release from Shad to Fulham fans on their website:
http://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2018/april/26/chairman-statement

"If my ownership interests were to include Wembley Stadium, it would protect the Jaguars’ position in London at a time when other NFL teams are understandably becoming more interested in this great city. And the stronger the Jaguars are in London, the more stable and promising the Jaguars’ future will be in Jacksonville."
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: CityLife on April 26, 2018, 08:53:04 AM
Here's a press release from Shad to Fulham fans on their website:
http://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2018/april/26/chairman-statement

"If my ownership interests were to include Wembley Stadium, it would protect the Jaguars’ position in London at a time when other NFL teams are understandably becoming more interested in this great city. And the stronger the Jaguars are in London, the more stable and promising the Jaguars’ future will be in Jacksonville."

That is such a power play move and genius on his end. Gotta give it up to him.

Now let’s see what he can pull of in Jax.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaxAvondale on April 26, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
Here's a press release from Shad to Fulham fans on their website:
http://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2018/april/26/chairman-statement

"If my ownership interests were to include Wembley Stadium, it would protect the Jaguars’ position in London at a time when other NFL teams are understandably becoming more interested in this great city. And the stronger the Jaguars are in London, the more stable and promising the Jaguars’ future will be in Jacksonville."

That is such a power play move and genius on his end. Gotta give it up to him.

Now let’s see what he can pull of in Jax.

Agreed! This is a smart move. I hope the Jags start playing at least one pre-season game in London as well or petition for a 5th preseason game like the Hall of Fame game teams. It will be a great source of revenue for the team.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 26, 2018, 09:20:40 AM
Khan's statement about the potential purchase, via Jaguars.com:

Quote
I am very pleased to learn today that The Football Association board of directors received our offer to purchase Wembley Stadium, our home away from home in London, from the FA.

One of the many benefits of the Jaguars’ commitment to London has been our partnership with the FA and Wembley Stadium.  Over the past several years, it became clearer to us and the FA that the idea of our purchase of Wembley Stadium made a lot of sense for all of us.

For the FA, it would mean Wembley Stadium returning to private ownership, permitting the FA to direct its full attention to its mandate to develop talent and serve the game with the vast resources it would realize from the sale.  For the Jaguars, it would deliver another – and very significant – asset and local revenue source that would further strengthen our investment in London, which as everyone knows is crucial to the Jaguars’ continued sustainability in Jacksonville.  In every respect, the Jaguars’ standing in London would be improved and dramatically enhanced if we are fortunate to be approved as the new owner and steward of Wembley Stadium, and that’s good news for the Jaguars and all of Jacksonville.

If you’ve had the occasion to join us for one of our Jaguars home games in London, you know that Wembley Stadium is a very special place.  Our commitment to the FA is we will own and operate Wembley with the care and respect it deserves, always being mindful that it is – and will continue to be – the home of England’s national teams as well as the ultimate destination for the world’s top entertainment and sports event, including Jaguars and NFL games.  And today’s announcement is additional evidence that we are committed to create and enhance new revenue streams to boost the Jaguars, such as the incredibly successful Daily’s Place and the project we revealed last week with The Cordish Companies on the proposed development around EverBank Field.

Today’s news changes none of what we envision for the long-term promise for the Jaguars here in Jax, and it changes nothing as to the goals we have for your downtown.  If anything, today’s news is the embodiment of the ethos we adopted several years ago of being proud, bold and committed.

We look forward to the process ahead with The Football Association and our pick in the first round of the NFL Draft, occurring very late this evening.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Adam White on April 26, 2018, 09:36:00 AM
Based on his track record to date in English football, I'm not so sure I'd want him to purchase the national stadium. I might be tempted to change my mind if he agrees to instal the Michael Jackson statue, though...
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: CityLife on April 26, 2018, 09:42:25 AM
Based on his track record to date in English football, I'm not so sure I'd want him to purchase the national stadium. I might be tempted to change my mind if he agrees to instal the Michael Jackson statue, though...

He got off to a bad start with both Fulham and the Jags, but has both headed in the right direction. Fulham have around a 50% shot to get back to the Premier League this year. I can’t see Levy (owner of Tottenham) and others letting him buy the national stadium with out a fight though.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Adam White on April 26, 2018, 09:49:33 AM
Based on his track record to date in English football, I'm not so sure I'd want him to purchase the national stadium. I might be tempted to change my mind if he agrees to instal the Michael Jackson statue, though...

He got off to a bad start with both Fulham and the Jags, but has both headed in the right direction. Fulham have around a 50% shot to get back to the Premier League this year. I can’t see Levy (owner of Tottenham) and others letting him buy the national stadium with out a fight though.

Well, Fulham haven't been promoted yet. And even if they are, it's no guarantee of survival.

Levy (and Lewis - the other owner of Spurs) have no say in the purchase of Wembley Stadium, as it's owned by the FA. I think the biggest complaint any of these billionaires could make is if they wanted to buy the stadium and decided that Khan was being given preferential treatment or something (kind of like what happened with the Olympic stadium and WHU). In any event, Spurs will (or should be) playing in Tottenham again once the new season starts.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: CityLife on April 26, 2018, 10:06:15 AM
My bad. Forgot Spurs were building a new stadium. Also didn’t realize that they have a 10 year contract to play NFL games in their new stadium. So buying Wembley may not be as savvy of a move as it originally looked.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Adam White on April 26, 2018, 10:10:20 AM
My bad. Forgot Spurs were building a new stadium. Also didn’t realize that they have a 10 year contract to play NFL games in their new stadium. So buying Wembley may not be as savvy of a move as it originally looked.

I was a bit confused about Khan's motivations, to be honest. I also am not 100% on what the deal is with NFL games in London going forward. As you mentioned, there is a deal in place for the new Tottenham stadium to host games. Currently, games are played at Wembley and Twickenham stadium. Not sure if that means there will be games at all three stadiums or if it will just be Wembley and Tottenham or maybe just Tottenham.

Of course, I was mainly joking about Khan. Except for the bit about the Michael Jackson statue - I'd love to see that at Wembley!
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: blizz01 on April 26, 2018, 12:50:38 PM
It's high time they establish a direct flight from JAX to Heathrow....
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Kiva on April 26, 2018, 01:16:37 PM
It's high time they establish a direct flight from JAX to Heathrow....
Norwegian Air has flights from Orlando to Gatwick. Return flights in May are as low as $450.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 26, 2018, 01:29:56 PM
My bad. Forgot Spurs were building a new stadium. Also didn’t realize that they have a 10 year contract to play NFL games in their new stadium. So buying Wembley may not be as savvy of a move as it originally looked.

I was a bit confused about Khan's motivations, to be honest. I also am not 100% on what the deal is with NFL games in London going forward. As you mentioned, there is a deal in place for the new Tottenham stadium to host games. Currently, games are played at Wembley and Twickenham stadium. Not sure if that means there will be games at all three stadiums or if it will just be Wembley and Tottenham or maybe just Tottenham.

Of course, I was mainly joking about Khan. Except for the bit about the Michael Jackson statue - I'd love to see that at Wembley!

I'm not sure what the contractual agreements really are. Wembley is supposed to get 2 games a year through 2020 with the Jags playing there once each year. Tottenham is supposed to get 2 games a year from 2018-2027.

But the 2018 schedule has only 3 NFL games in London; 2 at Wembley and 1 at Tottenham.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaxAvondale on April 26, 2018, 01:32:56 PM
The NFL has an agreement to play games in Tottenham’s new stadium. However, the Jags prefer to play at Wembley. The area around Wembley allows for a “tailgating” experience.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaxAvondale on April 26, 2018, 01:34:10 PM
My bad. Forgot Spurs were building a new stadium. Also didn’t realize that they have a 10 year contract to play NFL games in their new stadium. So buying Wembley may not be as savvy of a move as it originally looked.

I was a bit confused about Khan's motivations, to be honest. I also am not 100% on what the deal is with NFL games in London going forward. As you mentioned, there is a deal in place for the new Tottenham stadium to host games. Currently, games are played at Wembley and Twickenham stadium. Not sure if that means there will be games at all three stadiums or if it will just be Wembley and Tottenham or maybe just Tottenham.

Of course, I was mainly joking about Khan. Except for the bit about the Michael Jackson statue - I'd love to see that at Wembley!

I'm not sure what the contractual agreements really are. Wembley is supposed to get 2 games a year through 2020 with the Jags playing there once each year. Tottenham is supposed to get 2 games a year from 2018-2027.

But the 2018 schedule has only 3 NFL games in London; 2 at Wembley and 1 at Tottenham.

The talk is that they would move to 5 games starting next season.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaxAvondale on April 26, 2018, 01:38:46 PM
It's high time they establish a direct flight from JAX to Heathrow....

This would be great! I always wondered if JIA has to expand “B” Gate before Jax could see flights to London. I would be happy with just flying in and out of Gatwick.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Steve on April 26, 2018, 01:59:27 PM
JIA actually has customs already and an international gate that leads to it (C5). Next time you’re there and bored go over by C1, and you’ll see the customs exit tunnel.

Now, I don’t know how many people this area can process, but it’s there.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Papa33 on April 26, 2018, 02:12:40 PM
Does anyone know the sum total of Kahn's investments in the stadium upgrades (video boards, US Assure Club seats); Daily's Place; proposed Lot J investment and how that compares to what he is planning to spend on Wembley?
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaxAvondale on April 26, 2018, 02:30:14 PM
JIA actually has customs already and an international gate that leads to it (C5). Next time you’re there and bored go over by C1, and you’ll see the customs exit tunnel.

Now, I don’t know how many people this area can process, but it’s there.

I know that there is a customs exit tunnel at the C gate. My thought process is that you would like need to move Southwest and American to B gate in order to accommodate the flow of international travel at JIA. It is essentially what New Orleans is going to do with their expansion from my understanding.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 26, 2018, 02:30:34 PM
Does anyone know the sum total of Kahn's investments in the stadium upgrades (video boards, US Assure Club seats); Daily's Place; proposed Lot J investment and how that compares to what he is planning to spend on Wembley?

In terms of stadium upgrades, over $100 million.

Apples and oranges though (investing in a city-owned stadium in Jacksonville vs. purchasing Wembley outright).
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 26, 2018, 02:50:02 PM
I think it really speaks to how much Jacksonville has grown in confidence that most people people are taking this story in stride and not panicking.

The Jags rightfully consider London, specifically their home UK stadium at Wembley, to be a huge, supplemental part of keeping the franchise healthy and competitive in Jacksonville. They've also been frustrated by the lack of flexibility with scheduling their London game, and have been worried about a potential sale of Wembley effecting their future at that stadium. Makes a lot of sense for Khan to buy it, no longer have to pay rent on it every year, and get a piece of every event, NFL or otherwise, that takes place at Wembley.

Lamping also said that if the Jags decide in the future to add a second London game each year (likely preseason), this makes it a lot easier.

Lamping, "Judge us on our actions, not on what fears might be. Shad does business all over the world. Our behavior here in Jacksonville has been the exact opposite of what you would expect from an owner if he was moving. It strengthens the Jaguars financial health. Trying to find those opportunities that can result in new revenue streams that flow back to Jacksonville and make us financially stronger."
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Steve on April 26, 2018, 02:52:41 PM
JIA actually has customs already and an international gate that leads to it (C5). Next time you’re there and bored go over by C1, and you’ll see the customs exit tunnel.

Now, I don’t know how many people this area can process, but it’s there.

I know that there is a customs exit tunnel at the C gate. My thought process is that you would like need to move Southwest and American to B gate in order to accommodate the flow of international travel at JIA. It is essentially what New Orleans is going to do with their expansion from my understanding.

Probably not necessary. Generally for mid-sized cities with 1-2 international flights a day, there is one common use gate that they all share. Let's say British Airways tomorrow announces a nonstop JAX-LHR. It will be 1 flight that operates maybe not even every day. They don't need a 24/7 dedicated gate. Most international gates are shared use, even at airports like ATL (though Delta has preferred use on a few of them).

Side note: I'm 99.9% sure that all of JAX's gates are officially shared use, even though in practice the bigger carriers have their gates that they always use.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: I-10east on April 26, 2018, 05:04:24 PM
Channel 4 is already starting with the dumb moving rumors because of Shad wanting to own Wembley... While I don't foresee a move, I could see us losing more regular season games which would piss me off. I'm very skeptical about Khan owning Wembley being a good thing for Jax.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: I-10east on April 26, 2018, 05:08:13 PM
To paraquote channel 4 "The question on EVERYBODY's mind, will the Jags move to London?" SMH... ::)
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Charles Hunter on April 26, 2018, 05:09:04 PM
A note from Action News - if you're going to the Draft Party, head out early and be patient.  Besides the Draft Party, the Jumbo Shrimp have a home game, and Welcome to Rockville is at Metro Park. 
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Charles Hunter on April 26, 2018, 05:10:08 PM
To paraquote channel 4 "The question on EVERYBODY's mind, will the Jags move to London?" SMH... ::)

Is this the same "everybody" that Trump cites as supporting whatever random thought has just entered his head?
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: I-10east on April 26, 2018, 05:16:10 PM
^^I don't know what that's all about, but whatever...
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on April 26, 2018, 05:20:21 PM
The radio host Seth Harp explained it today in a way that I was kind of thinking when I heard the news:  Khan buying Wembley is the Europe version of what Kronke has done in LA. 

He just happened to purchase a track of land with a stadium already on it.  And now he'll generate revenue on EVERYTHING in the stadium when the Jags play their games there as well.  Very smart move on his part.

Essentially, he just got out ahead of the curve, knowing that the NFL will expand, to maintain our presence in London (will probably bump up to 2 games a year) and when/if they put a franchise over there (not the Jaguars) he'll be able to lease that stadium to whichever team goes.  Because when the NFL expands, I fully expect them to expand and not just move a team from here.  I could see 2 teams in London which would ease the travel burden on all involved by being able to play 2 games with 'home' teams a year, as well as allow the visiting team to play 2 consecutive games across the pond.

   

Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Kiva on April 26, 2018, 09:09:53 PM
This reminds me of an old joke. Three deaf men are on a bus. The first says "Is this Wembley?" The second says "No, it's Thursday". The third says "So am I. Let's get off and have a drink!".
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: jaxnyc79 on April 26, 2018, 10:44:42 PM
A real estate transaction to begin to create a London fan base to supplement the Jacksonville area fan base...makes sense.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: billy on April 27, 2018, 01:50:18 AM
Why is there not a Flex N Gate facility in Jacksonville?
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Adam White on April 27, 2018, 05:58:47 AM
A real estate transaction to begin to create a London fan base to supplement the Jacksonville area fan base...makes sense.

Unfortunately, it doesn't make a lot of sense for the taxpayers who helped to build the stadium in the first place. The FA will sell it on, pocket the money (after paying off their creditors) and we'll get stuck with Flex N Gate stadium. But who knows? Maybe we'll get massive scoreboards and swimming pools (financed by the GLA, of course). That should definitely class up the "home of football".
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: BenderRodriguez on April 27, 2018, 07:07:23 AM

… I could see 2 teams in London which would ease the travel burden on all involved by being able to play 2 games with 'home' teams a year, as well as allow the visiting team to play 2 consecutive games across the pond.
 

This... actually makes a lot of sense and definitely works logistically.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Steve on April 27, 2018, 09:19:38 AM
I don't see the Jags losing a second home game. However, I do see Khan campaigning for the Jags to play an away game there. Even though the home team gets more money on paper, the fact that Khan owns the place certainly gives some financial incentive.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: CityLife on April 27, 2018, 10:19:14 AM
That is some serious Mojo. Wembley is the national stadium in England where they play all of their National Soccer Team games and Cup championships. Hopefully he does not use this as leverage to extort COJ into bending over backwards for anything he wants.

Sorry to quote myself, but the more I think about the potential Wembley acquisition, the more I think that this will significantly improve Khan's negotiating stance on his future redevelopment proposal. Anyone that believes that there is no potential for Khan to move the team fulltime to London just because he said so in a quote is extremely naïve. Did you expect him to say, "Well I may move the Jags if I don't get whatever I want in Jacksonville?" No, instead he will use this as a bargaining chip throughout the process, and I don't blame the guy. It is business after all.

What this means is that the City and various public entities have to put their big boy pants on and do whatever they can on their end. Partner with Khan on corporate recruiting efforts, solve the ramp issue, address environmental remediation, make something happen with the Emerald Necklace (Hogan's Creek), start putting together incentive packages at the state and local level, and have various departments in the City prepared to expend a substantial amount of time on the proposal.

If Khan's redevelopment happens, that all but assures the Jags stay permanently. Don't fool yourself for a minute into thinking that things won't head south real quick if Khan does not get his way. I grew up in Jacksonville and left due to frustration/inaction from the City (as have many others). What makes you think a multi-billionaire with no ties to the area won't do the same?
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Adam White on April 27, 2018, 10:53:33 AM
One doesn't have 'mojo' in the UK.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: DrQue on April 27, 2018, 12:53:42 PM
How many NFL teams would be willing to play one of their "home" games in Khan's stadium? Financially it could make sense, but if the Jags develop a real crowd advantage, then I don't see other owners agreeing to that.

Wembley could be a good thing for Jax and the Jags. However, if the team does not meet financial goals locally, I could see this creeping toward more than one home game in London.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 27, 2018, 12:57:35 PM
That is some serious Mojo. Wembley is the national stadium in England where they play all of their National Soccer Team games and Cup championships. Hopefully he does not use this as leverage to extort COJ into bending over backwards for anything he wants.

Sorry to quote myself, but the more I think about the potential Wembley acquisition, the more I think that this will significantly improve Khan's negotiating stance on his future redevelopment proposal. Anyone that believes that there is no potential for Khan to move the team fulltime to London just because he said so in a quote is extremely naïve. Did you expect him to say, "Well I may move the Jags if I don't get whatever I want in Jacksonville?" No, instead he will use this as a bargaining chip throughout the process, and I don't blame the guy. It is business after all.

What this means is that the City and various public entities have to put their big boy pants on and do whatever they can on their end. Partner with Khan on corporate recruiting efforts, solve the ramp issue, address environmental remediation, make something happen with the Emerald Necklace (Hogan's Creek), start putting together incentive packages at the state and local level, and have various departments in the City prepared to expend a substantial amount of time on the proposal.

If Khan's redevelopment happens, that all but assures the Jags stay permanently. Don't fool yourself for a minute into thinking that things won't head south real quick if Khan does not get his way. I grew up in Jacksonville and left due to frustration/inaction from the City (as have many others). What makes you think a multi-billionaire with no ties to the area won't do the same?

Totally agree. Interesting that Khan seems to be learning more about RE development now. Through the Shipyards and Lot J proposals. Daily's Place construction. I believe he is working on similar development around Craven Cottage and now the Wembley purchase. Could work out well for Jax in the long run...or could be disastrous. We'll see...
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Todd_Parker on April 27, 2018, 01:04:51 PM
Would be interesting to see the responses to a forum discussion on predictions for the city of Jacksonville if the Jaguars did move.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: CityLife on April 27, 2018, 01:40:09 PM
That is some serious Mojo. Wembley is the national stadium in England where they play all of their National Soccer Team games and Cup championships. Hopefully he does not use this as leverage to extort COJ into bending over backwards for anything he wants.

Sorry to quote myself, but the more I think about the potential Wembley acquisition, the more I think that this will significantly improve Khan's negotiating stance on his future redevelopment proposal. Anyone that believes that there is no potential for Khan to move the team fulltime to London just because he said so in a quote is extremely naïve. Did you expect him to say, "Well I may move the Jags if I don't get whatever I want in Jacksonville?" No, instead he will use this as a bargaining chip throughout the process, and I don't blame the guy. It is business after all.

What this means is that the City and various public entities have to put their big boy pants on and do whatever they can on their end. Partner with Khan on corporate recruiting efforts, solve the ramp issue, address environmental remediation, make something happen with the Emerald Necklace (Hogan's Creek), start putting together incentive packages at the state and local level, and have various departments in the City prepared to expend a substantial amount of time on the proposal.

If Khan's redevelopment happens, that all but assures the Jags stay permanently. Don't fool yourself for a minute into thinking that things won't head south real quick if Khan does not get his way. I grew up in Jacksonville and left due to frustration/inaction from the City (as have many others). What makes you think a multi-billionaire with no ties to the area won't do the same?

Totally agree. Interesting that Khan seems to be learning more about RE development now. Through the Shipyards and Lot J proposals. Daily's Place construction. I believe he is working on similar development around Craven Cottage and now the Wembley purchase. Could work out well for Jax in the long run...or could be disastrous. We'll see...

Agreed with your agreement. He definitely seems to be learning and is likely surrounding himself more and more with savvy people that he can lean on. I also think he's in a better financial situation to make big moves than he was even a few years ago. I believe his net worth is about 75% larger than it was when he bought the Jags. With his standing in the national and international business world and ego (that is well earned), I just don't see him letting the City jerk him around or not hold up their end of the deal.

It's hard to know who (or what entity) is to be blamed for The District debacle, but that absolutely can't happen this time. I'm not saying the City is any way at fault (as it could very well be wholly on Rummel), but I hope that the experience working on The District has prepped them well for dealing with Khan. Truly could end up being a defining project that determines Jax's path over the next 20-50 years.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: vicupstate on April 27, 2018, 02:06:09 PM
The city is in no way, shape or form able to negotiate with Khan on anything close to an even playing field.   
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaxAvondale on April 27, 2018, 02:54:26 PM
I don't see the Jags losing a second home game. However, I do see Khan campaigning for the Jags to play an away game there. Even though the home team gets more money on paper, the fact that Khan owns the place certainly gives some financial incentive.

The second London home game would likely be a pre-season game. The easiest option would be to play the 1st pre-season game in London. The are already practicing in the mornings anyway to avoid the heat. Their opponent would be another team who is “hosting” a game in London that season. It would help the other team get adjusted for the game later in the season. I think most season ticket holders would be happy not to include the price of the pre-season game in the season ticket cost. As for lost stadium revenue, if Fulham moves up to the premier league then Khan can propose a friendly against another team training in the states. Most of the big clubs already train in the USA in July/early August and we would probably draw more than match instead of a pre-season game.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Steve on April 27, 2018, 02:58:23 PM
I don't see the Jags losing a second home game. However, I do see Khan campaigning for the Jags to play an away game there. Even though the home team gets more money on paper, the fact that Khan owns the place certainly gives some financial incentive.

The second London home game would likely be a pre-season game. The easiest option would be to play the 1st pre-season game in London. The are already practicing in the mornings anyway to avoid the heat. Their opponent would be another team who is “hosting” a game in London that season. It would help the other team get adjusted for the game later in the season. I think most season ticket holders would be happy not to include the price of the pre-season game in the season ticket cost. As for lost stadium revenue, if Fulham moves up to the premier league then Khan can propose a friendly against another team training in the states. Most of the big clubs already train in the USA in July/early August and we would probably draw more than match instead of a pre-season game.

I suppose, but realistically I'd be surprised if the team was committed to two trips over the pond. If they play two games in a row over there (Home and Away or Vice Versa), then it's only one trip over. Plus, while Londoners may not know American Football as well as we do, they'll figure out FAST if it's a trash pre-season game.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaxAvondale on April 27, 2018, 03:20:00 PM
They are plenty of friendlies in soccer. So, I think they would still come out to a pre-season game.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Steve on April 27, 2018, 03:35:42 PM
They are plenty of friendlies in soccer. So, I think they would still come out to a pre-season game.

Yea....In a friendly they don’t pull 100% of the starters and play literally the third string. They might pull a few here and there, but there are still stars on the field.

Plus, Wembley holds 90k. They aren’t going to put 90k in the stands year in and year out for a preseason game.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JBTripper on April 27, 2018, 03:44:24 PM
How many NFL teams would be willing to play one of their "home" games in Khan's stadium? Financially it could make sense, but if the Jags develop a real crowd advantage, then I don't see other owners agreeing to that.

Wembley could be a good thing for Jax and the Jags. However, if the team does not meet financial goals locally, I could see this creeping toward more than one home game in London.

The Jaguars would have a very difficult time selling additional home games in London to the fans in Jacksonville. If fans begin to see this venture as a gradual creep across the Atlantic, they'll stop supporting the team altogether. If that happens, so much for increasing local revenue.

But if Khan owns Wembley, he might have the leverage to lure other NFL teams to give up home games to play the Jaguars in London. From a competitive standpoint, home-field advantage matters a lot less in the NFL than it does in college, particularly during the regular season. A Jaguar-heavy crowd would not be as much of an issue with getting another team to come play in London.

In college football, we've had a huge increase in these "neutral site" games early in the year. They're so lucrative that Florida and Michigan get more money by splitting the revenue from a game in Dallas than they do by keeping all of the money from a game in Gainesville/Ann Arbor. Since Khan doesn't have to rent the facility, the financials of a "neutral site" game between the Chargers and Jaguars might begin to look more attractive for both teams than a game in LA, where they can't even fill an MLS stadium. The Chargers, or many other small-market teams, could do better with half the money from a London game than all of the money from a home game. And obviously the Jags would be happy to take half the money from a London game than none of the money from a traditional road game.

And the fans in Jacksonville don't care a lick how many road games the Jaguars play in London.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: CityLife on April 27, 2018, 04:39:37 PM
Tremendous post JBTripper. Had not considered that angle.

Really, any way you look at it Khan stands to gain money and power from the acquisition. Gotta give it up to the guy for thinking outside of the box.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 27, 2018, 05:47:12 PM
The NFL currently covers travel costs for teams playing in London. Not sure if they would do that for a pre-season game. And not sure how that tips the scales in terms of revenue for a preseason game.

Yes I could definitely see a home-away in back-to-back weeks in London for the Jags. Just gotta convince a team to do that. I'm sure the Chargers would be low-hanging fruit in the short term, but once the LA stadium is finished maybe not so much.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: funwithteeth on April 27, 2018, 06:23:58 PM
The NFL currently covers travel costs for teams playing in London. Not sure if they would do that for a pre-season game. And not sure how that tips the scales in terms of revenue for a preseason game.

Yes I could definitely see a home-away in back-to-back weeks in London for the Jags. Just gotta convince a team to do that. I'm sure the Chargers would be low-hanging fruit in the short term, but once the LA stadium is finished maybe not so much.
NFL scheduling doesn't work this way. A Jags-Chargers London game could only happen in a year where AFC South teams are scheduled to play AFC West teams—which happens every three years—or, if in the previous season, the Jags and the Chargers finished in the same spot in their respective divisions. If it seems like those teams have been playing each other a lot over recent years, it's because both teams have been routinely finishing near or at the bottom of those divisions.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: dp8541 on April 27, 2018, 06:58:42 PM
In the next few years my guess is we see a Jags preseason finale, followed by "home opener" finishing with "road" game all in London.  Team will stay there for a month or so to minimize travel time.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaxAvondale on April 27, 2018, 08:10:26 PM
In the next few years my guess is we see a Jags preseason finale, followed by "home opener" finishing with "road" game all in London.  Team will stay there for a month or so to minimize travel time.

This would be very hard to do with mandatory cuts due after the last pre-season game. You would be putting over 30 players back on a plane not mention the players trying to find a new team with his agent.


With that said, I do think the Jags prefer playing in the London early in the season.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 27, 2018, 11:27:35 PM

NFL scheduling doesn't work this way. A Jags-Chargers London game could only happen in a year where AFC South teams are scheduled to play AFC West teams—which happens every three years—or, if in the previous season, the Jags and the Chargers finished in the same spot in their respective divisions. If it seems like those teams have been playing each other a lot over recent years, it's because both teams have been routinely finishing near or at the bottom of those divisions.

Yeah you're right. I was just saying hypothetically, but yeah you're right.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 28, 2018, 10:59:39 AM
How many NFL teams would be willing to play one of their "home" games in Khan's stadium? Financially it could make sense, but if the Jags develop a real crowd advantage, then I don't see other owners agreeing to that.

Wembley could be a good thing for Jax and the Jags. However, if the team does not meet financial goals locally, I could see this creeping toward more than one home game in London.

The Jaguars would have a very difficult time selling additional home games in London to the fans in Jacksonville. If fans begin to see this venture as a gradual creep across the Atlantic, they'll stop supporting the team altogether. If that happens, so much for increasing local revenue.

But if Khan owns Wembley, he might have the leverage to lure other NFL teams to give up home games to play the Jaguars in London. From a competitive standpoint, home-field advantage matters a lot less in the NFL than it does in college, particularly during the regular season. A Jaguar-heavy crowd would not be as much of an issue with getting another team to come play in London.

In college football, we've had a huge increase in these "neutral site" games early in the year. They're so lucrative that Florida and Michigan get more money by splitting the revenue from a game in Dallas than they do by keeping all of the money from a game in Gainesville/Ann Arbor. Since Khan doesn't have to rent the facility, the financials of a "neutral site" game between the Chargers and Jaguars might begin to look more attractive for both teams than a game in LA, where they can't even fill an MLS stadium. The Chargers, or many other small-market teams, could do better with half the money from a London game than all of the money from a home game. And obviously the Jags would be happy to take half the money from a London game than none of the money from a traditional road game.

And the fans in Jacksonville don't care a lick how many road games the Jaguars play in London.


If the Jags add a second London game, it's 99% going to be a home game. Can't see the away game scenario happening for the simple reason that it defeats the entire purpose of playing in London, which is to generate more revenue for the Jags. With the way NFL revenue sharing is set up, home teams get 60% of general ticket sales, and 100% of premium ticket sales (clubs, boxes, etc) and concessions. The other 40% goes into a pot that is shared evenly among all teams. If the Jags play an away game in London, that money all goes to the other team. Financially, adding a regular away game in London makes roughly as much sense as adding a regular away game in Lakeland.

I also disagree that local fans would abandon the Jags if they did add a second home game in London. Khan is a straight-shooter, and he's clearly committed to the Jacksonville market. If he continues to invest in the city, and continues to field a winning team, I think most (educated) locals would see it as a smart business move that will ultimately benefit Jacksonville. If you watch the State of the Franchise every year, the Jags are very transparent about the challenges of being a small market NFL team, and about how holding a home game in London helps them to fill in that gap. They play in London to make the franchise more sustainable in Jacksonville. It really is that simple. Khan's proven himself to be a man of character over the years, and I guarantee you, he's not going to Irsay the Jags.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Adam White on April 28, 2018, 12:37:16 PM
There's just so much BS on this thread. Sorry guys - not trying to be rude. But basically, everyone seems to "know" what Khan is going to do - and it miraculously lines up with their own preferences. The truth is none of us can really know what Khan plans to do - and none of us really knows how much he cares about Jacksonville. It's all speculation and, again, it's speculation borne out of wishful thinking (or anti-Jaguars sentiment).

Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 28, 2018, 01:21:31 PM
Financially, adding a regular away game in London makes roughly as much sense as adding a regular away game in Lakeland.

...if Khan owned an NFL stadium in Lakeland. I mean the premise of that argument was that owning the stadium allows him to generate revenue from the games being played there.

I also disagree that local fans would abandon the Jags if they did add a second home game in London. Khan is a straight-shooter, and he's clearly committed to the Jacksonville market. If he continues to invest in the city, and continues to field a winning team, I think most (educated) locals would see it as a smart business move that will ultimately benefit Jacksonville. If you watch the State of the Franchise every year, the Jags are very transparent about the challenges of being a small market NFL team, and about how holding a home game in London helps them to fill in that gap. They play in London to make the franchise more sustainable in Jacksonville. It really is that simple. Khan's proven himself to be a man of character over the years, and I guarantee you, he's not going to Irsay the Jags.

Lol maybe. They somewhat sensationalize and dramatize the issue in an attempt to gain greater leverage for future deals. I agree with you regarding Khan and insofar I believe and hope it is so. But I would stop short of any guarantees.

Also, there are fans that believe/d that the London games were a temporary measure to stabilize the franchise. There was an Ozone exchange yesterday where the fan stated that he had always assumed once the tarps came off and the team was selling out, the London game would be brought back to Jax. Ozone basically replied that the London game is here to stay...
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 28, 2018, 02:42:31 PM
^Then those fans are wildly ignorant of the basic facts and holding on to assumptions that are easily disproven with a simple Google search. The Jaguars have been very open about their desire to make London a second home. The team has a formal agreement to play one home game a season in London through 2020, with an extension through 2025 if the league approves it. Khan very publicly lobbied for an extension through 2030 a few years ago. The game isn't going anywhere, it's an important part of the Jags business model, and no one within the organization is suggesting otherwise.

When I say that Khan won't Irsay the Jags, I don't mean there's zero percent chance the Jags will move to London one day. What I mean is that the Jags are very transparent about the economic health of the franchise, and we'll know years in advance if the Jags no longer consider Jacksonville to be economically viable. We're not just going to wake up to an unexpected headline one morning that the Jags have packed up and moved in the dead of the night.

To a previous poster's point that we have no way of knowing for sure and both sides of the argument are purely hypothetical, to me, that's where Occam's Razor comes in. Which theory makes the fewest assumptions? 1) Khan is telling the truth and wants to do everything possible to keep the team in Jacksonville 2) Khan has a secret ploy to move the team to London.

We have plenty of empirical evidence supporting theory #1. And, quite literally, zero empirical evidence supporting theory #2. He's invested over a hundred million dollars to improve the gameday experience in Jacksonville and to build new long-term revenue streams. He's stocked the front office with proven winners like Mark Lamping and local heros like Tom Coughlin. He's spent a ton in free agency and redesigned the uniforms twice to push sales. He's invested heavily in regional marketing to draw in more fans from nearby cities. He's made it more affordable to go to Jags games through concession reductions and clear plastic bags. He's recruited Cordish to build a huge development next to the stadium, and is pushing the city to remove the Hart Bridge ramps so the Jags can develop the Shipyards. He was at the draft party at Daily's Place randomly walking around high fiving fans, he had tears in his eyes when the city got its first home playoff win in 20 years, and he was deeply and visibly hurt when the media suggested the Wembley thing was a ploy to relocate the Jags to London. He's also widely considered to be one of the best owners in the league.

The only way the London conspiracy makes sense is if we assume that all of this is an act intended to lull Jacksonville into a false sense of security and then crush their hopes and dreams, cartoon villian style.

If he really wanted to move the team to London, ALL he needed to do was buy the team, maintain the status quo, and let the fanbase continue to erode until they sustained three years of consecutive financial losses and could move penalty free.

Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Adam White on April 28, 2018, 05:07:54 PM
To a previous poster's point that we have no way of knowing for sure and both sides of the argument are purely hypothetical, to me, that's where Occam's Razor comes in. Which theory makes the fewest assumptions? 1) Khan is telling the truth and wants to do everything possible to keep the team in Jacksonville 2) Khan has a secret ploy to move the team to London.



So, those are the only two possibilities? Yet more assumptions.

What about 3) Khan's doing what he can to make money and will ultimately follow whatever path proves to be most lucrative - and maybe he doesn't even know what that is going to be right now. I'm not saying this is the case, I'm proposing it as an example to show you've created a false dichotomy.

Why does the only other option have to be some sort of 'secret ploy'? When you use that sort of logic, you can then fall back on the 'occam's razor' argument and it sounds valid, because consipiracy theories are usually total bullshit.

The problem I have with a lot of this conjecture is the fact that it's couched in such absolute terms: "Khan is going to..." "Khan will never...". There is simply no way we know what he will or won't do, what he is or isn't thinking. We don't even really know what kind of person he actually is - we only know the public face.



Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: CityLife on April 28, 2018, 06:50:59 PM
Yeah Adam, that is essentially the line of thinking I've been trying to express. There is a possibility that IF Khan does acquire Wembley AND does run into issues with his redevelopment plans from the City or due to lack of a market, things could head south (or northeast) real quick. He's likely already recouped a portion of the $100 million he's invested in the Jags, and even if not, $100 million is a drop in the bucket. Particularly if he stands to gain more from a move to London, which is quite likely. To put it in perspective, $100 million to Khan is the same amount of money that $2600 is to a person with a net worth of $200k.

We're all free to believe whatever we want, but I personally will not believe Khan is 100% set on keeping the Jags in Jax permanently until he has a legacy type redevelopment project under construction.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: sanmarcomatt on April 28, 2018, 09:06:18 PM
I don't know Khan. For all I know, he is such a great guy, he makes Mother Teresa look like a bitch. Or maybe he has girls chained in his basement.

But I believe he "wants to make it work" ( errr....make lots of money and have tax payers contribute a shit ton of stadium money in the future)in Jax and will give it his best shot. If it "doesn't work" as he defines it, he will move the team in a heartbeat and the NFL will vote yes in record time. His team.I have no problem with that.

I  like the Jags being here, and a long time season ticket holder(with a 4 game blip last year) but he could move the team tomorrow and while I won't be happy, it will take me about by 5 minutes to get over it. I don't think it would hurt Jax at all. Probably help in the long term.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 28, 2018, 09:48:18 PM
^SMM, it's the occasional post like this that you stumble onto that redeem all your other forum transgressions. Very wise words delivered so effortlessly. Enjoy your good dough, my friend, enjoy the good dough life.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 28, 2018, 10:15:11 PM
To a previous poster's point that we have no way of knowing for sure and both sides of the argument are purely hypothetical, to me, that's where Occam's Razor comes in. Which theory makes the fewest assumptions? 1) Khan is telling the truth and wants to do everything possible to keep the team in Jacksonville 2) Khan has a secret ploy to move the team to London.



So, those are the only two possibilities? Yet more assumptions.

What about 3) Khan's doing what he can to make money and will ultimately follow whatever path proves to be most lucrative - and maybe he doesn't even know what that is going to be right now. I'm not saying this is the case, I'm proposing it as an example to show you've created a false dichotomy.

Why does the only other option have to be some sort of 'secret ploy'? When you use that sort of logic, you can then fall back on the 'occam's razor' argument and it sounds valid, because consipiracy theories are usually total bullshit.

The problem I have with a lot of this conjecture is the fact that it's couched in such absolute terms: "Khan is going to..." "Khan will never...". There is simply no way we know what he will or won't do, what he is or isn't thinking. We don't even really know what kind of person he actually is - we only know the public face.





I'm purely talking intentions. We have no way of knowing what the future holds. The possibilities are limitless. I'm strictly disagreeing with the argument that Khan is actively plotting to move the team to London. Could it happen? Absolutely. We don't know what's gonna happen if a recession hits. Or when the stadium reaches end-of-life. Or when a less Jags-friendly mayor takes office. There's also the possibility that the NFL expands to London and Khan sells the Jags to launch a new franchise in London. There are zero guarantees. The market's still arguably too small, and the stadium is still, inarguably, too big. Everyone should really try to enjoy these next few years.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Snaketoz on April 29, 2018, 07:45:40 AM
Being a small market, I believe the Jaguars are showing that they are committed to Jacksonville as long as Jacksonville is committed to the Jags.  This recent draft reinforces my opinion.  When the pre Kahn GM was here it seemed he drafted West coast and small college players.  This draft the Jags drafted a lot of SEC players that are more familiar to it's fans.  Jacksonville needs a vibrant entertainment district.  If Kahn gets that, the Jags are here to stay.  If he can only break even, he sells the team or moves it.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: sanmarcomatt on April 30, 2018, 08:26:10 AM
^SMM, it's the occasional post like this that you stumble onto that redeem all your other forum transgressions. Very wise words delivered so effortlessly. Enjoy your good dough, my friend, enjoy the good dough life.

Thanks for the high praise!

Even better, being linked publicly to transgressions has been on my bucket list. Check!
I have an unusual list.



Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Steve on April 30, 2018, 09:23:05 AM
If he bought some stadium somewhere in North America, then I'd be concerned. There are still so many logistical challenges with a team in London it's not even funny. Yes, the potential money has a way of "easing" some of those, but I'm still not seeing this at any point soon.

I think the NFL would need to be in a position where they could base 2 (or ideally 4) teams in Europe, as the logistics for these teams (and their opponents) would be brutal. If you have 2 teams over there, then you can start to ease the number of trips across the pond - if you go over, then you play both teams, when they come over they play 2-3 in a row on the road, etc.

I also think that in order for this to happen, they are likely going to try out another city besides London to compliment it (perhaps Munich or Berlin). Not sure I can see 2 teams in London that then would have to fill the place a total of 20 times.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: FlaBoy on April 30, 2018, 11:15:52 AM
If he bought some stadium somewhere in North America, then I'd be concerned. There are still so many logistical challenges with a team in London it's not even funny. Yes, the potential money has a way of "easing" some of those, but I'm still not seeing this at any point soon.

I think the NFL would need to be in a position where they could base 2 (or ideally 4) teams in Europe, as the logistics for these teams (and their opponents) would be brutal. If you have 2 teams over there, then you can start to ease the number of trips across the pond - if you go over, then you play both teams, when they come over they play 2-3 in a row on the road, etc.

I also think that in order for this to happen, they are likely going to try out another city besides London to compliment it (perhaps Munich or Berlin). Not sure I can see 2 teams in London that then would have to fill the place a total of 20 times.

Agreed. It will be more than a decade before an NFL team could potentially be in London imo. However, I think Shad sees a massive market that he can try to create an additional fan base and London can be the Jaguars "second home". That could be scary long term but Shad is already near 70. I doubt his plan is to move to London. He would like to be the NFL's ambassador to Europe though.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 30, 2018, 11:49:16 AM
I like the Jags being here, and a long time season ticket holder(with a 4 game blip last year) but he could move the team tomorrow and while I won't be happy, it will take me about by 5 minutes to get over it. I don't think it would hurt Jax at all. Probably help in the long term.

I disagree.

The team is deeply interwoven into the fabric of our community, spanning generations, and I think it would really do a number on Jacksonville to lose that institution.

The Jags give Jacksonville identity.

Externally with outsiders, sure, but even more importantly, internally as a city.

The Jags are the glue that unites an 800 square mile metro that is, for all intents and purposes, a collection of smaller, very different cities operating under a consolidated government.

You walk around Hemming Park, or the beaches, or the Town Center, or the Orange Park mall, or Mayport, or UNF, and you see Jags gear everywhere, and you hear people talking about our team. And debating the draft. And celebrating wins. And commiserating the losses.

You wear a Jags t-shirt at LaGuardia, or O'Hare, or Hartsfield-Jackson, you're going to be approached by other Jacksonville travelers.

And you go to the games on Sunday afternoon, and you see an entire cross-section of the community, coming together, cheering for their local team, and screaming the name of our county at the top of their lungs.

That's irreplaceable.

I think what makes this current team so special is how closely the team's identity mirrors that of the city - the scrappy underdog, minimized by the national media, with a chip on its shoulder and ready to prove the doubters wrong. Led by a blue-collar, bologna-sandwich-eating coach, and a quarterback that is pure Jax Beach.

Plus, the guys love it here, and want to be here, and I think that's infectious and trickles down to every aspect of our community, from business development, to racial relations, to overall civic pride.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Adam White on April 30, 2018, 12:08:12 PM
The Jags are the glue that unites an 800 square mile metro that is, for all intents and purposes, a collection of smaller, very different cities operating under a consolidated government.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/KiaU2EUyxjQB2/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: RatTownRyan on April 30, 2018, 01:26:15 PM
I agree with KenFSU. I am sure there are some on this forum that either, grew up following another football team( Pittsburgh or Miami), are not interested in football, or didnt grow up in Jax. For someone who grew up here and has been a Jag fan my entire life, losing the team would feel like losing part of my identity. The sentiment that someone could get over something like that in five minutes does not register. I love Jax for many different reasons. Having a professional sports team  that puts us on a stage against the big cities is huge even if its symbolic or irrelevant. We will never have the population, economics or institution of Houston, LA, Seattle, or NY but on any given Sunday we can whoop that a$$ on the football field in front of the world.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JBTripper on April 30, 2018, 02:28:46 PM
How many NFL teams would be willing to play one of their "home" games in Khan's stadium? Financially it could make sense, but if the Jags develop a real crowd advantage, then I don't see other owners agreeing to that.

Wembley could be a good thing for Jax and the Jags. However, if the team does not meet financial goals locally, I could see this creeping toward more than one home game in London.

The Jaguars would have a very difficult time selling additional home games in London to the fans in Jacksonville. If fans begin to see this venture as a gradual creep across the Atlantic, they'll stop supporting the team altogether. If that happens, so much for increasing local revenue.

But if Khan owns Wembley, he might have the leverage to lure other NFL teams to give up home games to play the Jaguars in London. From a competitive standpoint, home-field advantage matters a lot less in the NFL than it does in college, particularly during the regular season. A Jaguar-heavy crowd would not be as much of an issue with getting another team to come play in London.

In college football, we've had a huge increase in these "neutral site" games early in the year. They're so lucrative that Florida and Michigan get more money by splitting the revenue from a game in Dallas than they do by keeping all of the money from a game in Gainesville/Ann Arbor. Since Khan doesn't have to rent the facility, the financials of a "neutral site" game between the Chargers and Jaguars might begin to look more attractive for both teams than a game in LA, where they can't even fill an MLS stadium. The Chargers, or many other small-market teams, could do better with half the money from a London game than all of the money from a home game. And obviously the Jags would be happy to take half the money from a London game than none of the money from a traditional road game.

And the fans in Jacksonville don't care a lick how many road games the Jaguars play in London.


If the Jags add a second London game, it's 99% going to be a home game. Can't see the away game scenario happening for the simple reason that it defeats the entire purpose of playing in London, which is to generate more revenue for the Jags. With the way NFL revenue sharing is set up, home teams get 60% of general ticket sales, and 100% of premium ticket sales (clubs, boxes, etc) and concessions. The other 40% goes into a pot that is shared evenly among all teams. If the Jags play an away game in London, that money all goes to the other team. Financially, adding a regular away game in London makes roughly as much sense as adding a regular away game in Lakeland.

That may be true today, but the revenue sharing agreement isn't etched in stone. If an NFL owner should come to own Wembley stadium, that changes the calculus for what's possible over there. I wasn't suggesting that the Jags would benefit much from a true "road" game in London, only that a revenue split more along the lines of a college "neutral site" game might  change the equation.  Achieving this with the NFL schedule is obviously more complicated than Florida and Michigan each giving up home games against Double-Directional State, but it's not impossible to picture somebody on the Jaguars schedule each year voluntarily giving up a true home game in order to make more money from a neutral-site game in London.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JBTripper on April 30, 2018, 02:33:38 PM
If he bought some stadium somewhere in North America, then I'd be concerned. There are still so many logistical challenges with a team in London it's not even funny. Yes, the potential money has a way of "easing" some of those, but I'm still not seeing this at any point soon.

I think the NFL would need to be in a position where they could base 2 (or ideally 4) teams in Europe, as the logistics for these teams (and their opponents) would be brutal. If you have 2 teams over there, then you can start to ease the number of trips across the pond - if you go over, then you play both teams, when they come over they play 2-3 in a row on the road, etc.

I also think that in order for this to happen, they are likely going to try out another city besides London to compliment it (perhaps Munich or Berlin). Not sure I can see 2 teams in London that then would have to fill the place a total of 20 times.

I wonder if the travel thing isn't vastly overblown. This is the NFL. It's not like they're operating on some razor-thin margin. And as for the physical toll on the players... a first-class flight to London can't be any more taxing than playing a football game.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: sanmarcomatt on April 30, 2018, 02:34:46 PM
I like the Jags being here, and a long time season ticket holder(with a 4 game blip last year) but he could move the team tomorrow and while I won't be happy, it will take me about by 5 minutes to get over it. I don't think it would hurt Jax at all. Probably help in the long term.

I disagree.

The team is deeply interwoven into the fabric of our community, spanning generations, and I think it would really do a number on Jacksonville to lose that institution.

The Jags give Jacksonville identity.

Externally with outsiders, sure, but even more importantly, internally as a city.

The Jags are the glue that unites an 800 square mile metro that is, for all intents and purposes, a collection of smaller, very different cities operating under a consolidated government.

You walk around Hemming Park, or the beaches, or the Town Center, or the Orange Park mall, or Mayport, or UNF, and you see Jags gear everywhere, and you hear people talking about our team. And debating the draft. And celebrating wins. And commiserating the losses.

You wear a Jags t-shirt at LaGuardia, or O'Hare, or Hartsfield-Jackson, you're going to be approached by other Jacksonville travelers.

And you go to the games on Sunday afternoon, and you see an entire cross-section of the community, coming together, cheering for their local team, and screaming the name of our county at the top of their lungs.

That's irreplaceable.

I think what makes this current team so special is how closely the team's identity mirrors that of the city - the scrappy underdog, minimized by the national media, with a chip on its shoulder and ready to prove the doubters wrong. Led by a blue-collar, bologna-sandwich-eating coach, and a quarterback that is pure Jax Beach.

Plus, the guys love it here, and want to be here, and I think that's infectious and trickles down to every aspect of our community, from business development, to racial relations, to overall civic pride.


By any chance, did you think up the "Jaguaring" idea?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrevDYTvX58


Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JBTripper on April 30, 2018, 02:48:50 PM
^Then those fans are wildly ignorant of the basic facts and holding on to assumptions that are easily disproven with a simple Google search. The Jaguars have been very open about their desire to make London a second home. The team has a formal agreement to play one home game a season in London through 2020, with an extension through 2025 if the league approves it. Khan very publicly lobbied for an extension through 2030 a few years ago. The game isn't going anywhere, it's an important part of the Jags business model, and no one within the organization is suggesting otherwise.

When I say that Khan won't Irsay the Jags, I don't mean there's zero percent chance the Jags will move to London one day. What I mean is that the Jags are very transparent about the economic health of the franchise, and we'll know years in advance if the Jags no longer consider Jacksonville to be economically viable. We're not just going to wake up to an unexpected headline one morning that the Jags have packed up and moved in the dead of the night.

To a previous poster's point that we have no way of knowing for sure and both sides of the argument are purely hypothetical, to me, that's where Occam's Razor comes in. Which theory makes the fewest assumptions? 1) Khan is telling the truth and wants to do everything possible to keep the team in Jacksonville 2) Khan has a secret ploy to move the team to London.

We have plenty of empirical evidence supporting theory #1. And, quite literally, zero empirical evidence supporting theory #2. He's invested over a hundred million dollars to improve the gameday experience in Jacksonville and to build new long-term revenue streams. He's stocked the front office with proven winners like Mark Lamping and local heros like Tom Coughlin. He's spent a ton in free agency and redesigned the uniforms twice to push sales. He's invested heavily in regional marketing to draw in more fans from nearby cities. He's made it more affordable to go to Jags games through concession reductions and clear plastic bags. He's recruited Cordish to build a huge development next to the stadium, and is pushing the city to remove the Hart Bridge ramps so the Jags can develop the Shipyards. He was at the draft party at Daily's Place randomly walking around high fiving fans, he had tears in his eyes when the city got its first home playoff win in 20 years, and he was deeply and visibly hurt when the media suggested the Wembley thing was a ploy to relocate the Jags to London. He's also widely considered to be one of the best owners in the league.

The only way the London conspiracy makes sense is if we assume that all of this is an act intended to lull Jacksonville into a false sense of security and then crush their hopes and dreams, cartoon villian style.

If he really wanted to move the team to London, ALL he needed to do was buy the team, maintain the status quo, and let the fanbase continue to erode until they sustained three years of consecutive financial losses and could move penalty free.

I take Khan at his word, but until I see cranes over Lot J I'm going to be very nervous. I can't help but look at the "transparency" at each year's "State of the Franchise" as a setting of the table for a departure down the road. This year Lamping even said, referencing the "Team Teal" year, something along the lines of "we made a marketing decision not to campaign under the idea that 'if you don't support us, something bad might happen,'" which... to me sounds an awful lot like something bad might happen even though they're not saying it.

It feels like things get better every year, and then Lamping comes out and shows us the PowerPoint of Destiny that explains why Jacksonville has such a hard time being "financially viable." The team is winning, the organization is insanely profitable, local revenue is up... but we aren't viable because we aren't keeping pace with much larger markets. So we need to develop the shipyards/Lot J/Met Park in order to create more local revenue... and yet there's been no activity beyond a new set of renderings every year. Is it a stretch to think that one day we could wake up to the London Jaguars saying "look, we tried! We proposed new revenue streams but the city wouldn't pay ball and/or the market wouldn't support what we needed to do?"

Maybe I need a tinfoil hat.

Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 30, 2018, 03:16:46 PM
I like the Jags being here, and a long time season ticket holder(with a 4 game blip last year) but he could move the team tomorrow and while I won't be happy, it will take me about by 5 minutes to get over it. I don't think it would hurt Jax at all. Probably help in the long term.

I disagree.

The team is deeply interwoven into the fabric of our community, spanning generations, and I think it would really do a number on Jacksonville to lose that institution.

The Jags give Jacksonville identity.

Externally with outsiders, sure, but even more importantly, internally as a city.

The Jags are the glue that unites an 800 square mile metro that is, for all intents and purposes, a collection of smaller, very different cities operating under a consolidated government.

You walk around Hemming Park, or the beaches, or the Town Center, or the Orange Park mall, or Mayport, or UNF, and you see Jags gear everywhere, and you hear people talking about our team. And debating the draft. And celebrating wins. And commiserating the losses.

You wear a Jags t-shirt at LaGuardia, or O'Hare, or Hartsfield-Jackson, you're going to be approached by other Jacksonville travelers.

And you go to the games on Sunday afternoon, and you see an entire cross-section of the community, coming together, cheering for their local team, and screaming the name of our county at the top of their lungs.

That's irreplaceable.

I think what makes this current team so special is how closely the team's identity mirrors that of the city - the scrappy underdog, minimized by the national media, with a chip on its shoulder and ready to prove the doubters wrong. Led by a blue-collar, bologna-sandwich-eating coach, and a quarterback that is pure Jax Beach.

Plus, the guys love it here, and want to be here, and I think that's infectious and trickles down to every aspect of our community, from business development, to racial relations, to overall civic pride.


By any chance, did you think up the "Jaguaring" idea?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrevDYTvX58




Yes.

So what's your rationale that if the Jaguars were to vacate Jacksonville, it wouldn't hurt the city at all? Or, that it would actually be good for the city? Purely because of the economic subsidies?
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on April 30, 2018, 03:35:03 PM
I take Khan at his word, but until I see cranes over Lot J I'm going to be very nervous. I can't help but look at the "transparency" at each year's "State of the Franchise" as a setting of the table for a departure down the road. This year Lamping even said, referencing the "Team Teal" year, something along the lines of "we made a marketing decision not to campaign under the idea that 'if you don't support us, something bad might happen,'" which... to me sounds an awful lot like something bad might happen even though they're not saying it.

It feels like things get better every year, and then Lamping comes out and shows us the PowerPoint of Destiny that explains why Jacksonville has such a hard time being "financially viable." The team is winning, the organization is insanely profitable, local revenue is up... but we aren't viable because we aren't keeping pace with much larger markets. So we need to develop the shipyards/Lot J/Met Park in order to create more local revenue... and yet there's been no activity beyond a new set of renderings every year. Is it a stretch to think that one day we could wake up to the London Jaguars saying "look, we tried! We proposed new revenue streams but the city wouldn't pay ball and/or the market wouldn't support what we needed to do?"

Maybe I need a tinfoil hat.



I totally agree on Lamping's Powerpoints. They certainly have a way of taking the joy out of the State of the Franchise at times. I think the Jags are very selective about the data that they present as well. I hate the chart that shows that the Jags used to have the highest ticket prices in the league, but are now amongst the lowest. It's a very misleading chart. Those first couple of years were insanely inflated due to the presales and the pent-up excitement about the NFL selecting Jacksonville. They were never sustainable for a market this size, and it's silly to use them as a basis for comparison in 2018. I also think that it's in poor taste to imply that Everbank is inadequate after the city invested $100 million in improvements in the last couple of years.

I also agree with your point that the Jaguars' future in Jacksonville is going to hinge on the city's willingness (and ability) to play ball on the Shipyards and Lot J.

Ain't gonna be cheap to keep them in Jacksonville, but that's the nature of the NFL, as shitty as it is. Especially with the NFL's revenue sharing model that puts so much pressure on small markets to pull their weight and earn their equal piece of the pie.

Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Steve on April 30, 2018, 04:02:06 PM
If he bought some stadium somewhere in North America, then I'd be concerned. There are still so many logistical challenges with a team in London it's not even funny. Yes, the potential money has a way of "easing" some of those, but I'm still not seeing this at any point soon.

I think the NFL would need to be in a position where they could base 2 (or ideally 4) teams in Europe, as the logistics for these teams (and their opponents) would be brutal. If you have 2 teams over there, then you can start to ease the number of trips across the pond - if you go over, then you play both teams, when they come over they play 2-3 in a row on the road, etc.

I also think that in order for this to happen, they are likely going to try out another city besides London to compliment it (perhaps Munich or Berlin). Not sure I can see 2 teams in London that then would have to fill the place a total of 20 times.

I wonder if the travel thing isn't vastly overblown. This is the NFL. It's not like they're operating on some razor-thin margin. And as for the physical toll on the players... a first-class flight to London can't be any more taxing than playing a football game.

Not sure if I'd say it's overblown. The NFL Players Association already has made a point in the past regarding east coast-west coast trips. I recognize that east coast to London isn't THAT different than say NY-LA. But, West Coast to London is a legit haul. If the Chargers or 49ers have to do that on a regular basis, that will take a toll.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: sanmarcomatt on April 30, 2018, 04:14:54 PM
I like the Jags being here, and a long time season ticket holder(with a 4 game blip last year) but he could move the team tomorrow and while I won't be happy, it will take me about by 5 minutes to get over it. I don't think it would hurt Jax at all. Probably help in the long term.

I disagree.

The team is deeply interwoven into the fabric of our community, spanning generations, and I think it would really do a number on Jacksonville to lose that institution.

The Jags give Jacksonville identity.

Externally with outsiders, sure, but even more importantly, internally as a city.

The Jags are the glue that unites an 800 square mile metro that is, for all intents and purposes, a collection of smaller, very different cities operating under a consolidated government.

You walk around Hemming Park, or the beaches, or the Town Center, or the Orange Park mall, or Mayport, or UNF, and you see Jags gear everywhere, and you hear people talking about our team. And debating the draft. And celebrating wins. And commiserating the losses.

You wear a Jags t-shirt at LaGuardia, or O'Hare, or Hartsfield-Jackson, you're going to be approached by other Jacksonville travelers.

And you go to the games on Sunday afternoon, and you see an entire cross-section of the community, coming together, cheering for their local team, and screaming the name of our county at the top of their lungs.

That's irreplaceable.

I think what makes this current team so special is how closely the team's identity mirrors that of the city - the scrappy underdog, minimized by the national media, with a chip on its shoulder and ready to prove the doubters wrong. Led by a blue-collar, bologna-sandwich-eating coach, and a quarterback that is pure Jax Beach.

Plus, the guys love it here, and want to be here, and I think that's infectious and trickles down to every aspect of our community, from business development, to racial relations, to overall civic pride.


By any chance, did you think up the "Jaguaring" idea?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrevDYTvX58




Yes.

So what's your rationale that if the Jaguars were to vacate Jacksonville, it wouldn't hurt the city at all? Or, that it would actually be good for the city? Purely because of the economic subsidies?

Mostly economic (both tax dollars and people's discretionary spending going elsewhere) but also would like to see what could be accomplished with the time and energy being directed to alternatives besides the NFL.

Of course, I am hoping city leadership is better over the next 20 years than the pathetic joke it has been the last 20.

Note, if I thought Khan would actually invest in the city(non Jags) I would feel vastly different.

Once again, I hope he develops the shit out of the sports district and the Jags are here the next 30 years.

But it is a freaking football team run by a billionaire that is part of an exclusive group of mostly billionaires that loots tax dollars like candy. If they go. They go. I cannot imagine thinking a professional sports team is that important. To each his own.






Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on April 30, 2018, 04:42:33 PM
I take exception to some comments a few days back that said effectively that Jacksonville needs to hurry up and give Khan the development deal he wants, or face losing the Jags. What Jacksonville really needs to do is work with Khan on a realistic deal that makes sense for the city, weighing the benefits to the team against the costs of the deal and the opportunity cost of what else we could do with the money. If there's a deal out there that works out, grab it. If not, pass. Not all deals that Khan may pitch are good for the city.

Case in point the original Shipyards deal from 2015. Folks forget that as flashy as it was, it was a *horrible* deal for the city. It would have essentially entailed paying Khan to take our land, cleaning it up at our expense, and subsidizing the amphitheater and the practice field (which he would own), allowing him to sell of the rest in pieces at his leisure, and *tie all the tax money generated by the new development in the development itself*.

Fortunately, after the administration changed brought in better negotiators, that deal was axed. So then they worked on things that the Jaguars had really wanted to begin with, in a way that had an actual return for the city - we contributed to the amphitheater and practice field (which the city owns, rather than the Jags). The current plans in Lot J and whatnot look like the next progression from that. Those plans are not at a stage where we can actually know what the impact will be on the city, because it's so conjectural at this point. There are no concrete plans or cost estimates, so we don't know yet. Hopefully it turns out awesome and brings a lot of new activity to the Stadium District where none existed before. But if it's not, then we need to say no.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 30, 2018, 05:33:25 PM
Not sure if I'd say it's overblown. The NFL Players Association already has made a point in the past regarding east coast-west coast trips. I recognize that east coast to London isn't THAT different than say NY-LA. But, West Coast to London is a legit haul. If the Chargers or 49ers have to do that on a regular basis, that will take a toll.

In a decade it will just be a 2-3 hour shuttle on the hyperloop.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: CityLife on April 30, 2018, 09:08:28 PM
I take exception to some comments a few days back that said effectively that Jacksonville needs to hurry up and give Khan the development deal he wants, or face losing the Jags. What Jacksonville really needs to do is work with Khan on a realistic deal that makes sense for the city, weighing the benefits to the team against the costs of the deal and the opportunity cost of what else we could do with the money. If there's a deal out there that works out, grab it. If not, pass. Not all deals that Khan may pitch are good for the city.

I presume this is directed towards my earlier posts? If so, in no way did I imply that the City should give Khan whatever he wants. Merely that the City and various public agencies need to be ready to play big league ball and hold up their end of the partnership.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: JaxAvondale on April 30, 2018, 10:42:30 PM
If he bought some stadium somewhere in North America, then I'd be concerned. There are still so many logistical challenges with a team in London it's not even funny. Yes, the potential money has a way of "easing" some of those, but I'm still not seeing this at any point soon.

I think the NFL would need to be in a position where they could base 2 (or ideally 4) teams in Europe, as the logistics for these teams (and their opponents) would be brutal. If you have 2 teams over there, then you can start to ease the number of trips across the pond - if you go over, then you play both teams, when they come over they play 2-3 in a row on the road, etc.

I also think that in order for this to happen, they are likely going to try out another city besides London to compliment it (perhaps Munich or Berlin). Not sure I can see 2 teams in London that then would have to fill the place a total of 20 times.

I wonder if the travel thing isn't vastly overblown. This is the NFL. It's not like they're operating on some razor-thin margin. And as for the physical toll on the players... a first-class flight to London can't be any more taxing than playing a football game.

Not sure if I'd say it's overblown. The NFL Players Association already has made a point in the past regarding east coast-west coast trips. I recognize that east coast to London isn't THAT different than say NY-LA. But, West Coast to London is a legit haul. If the Chargers or 49ers have to do that on a regular basis, that will take a toll.

The current CBA expires after the 2020 season. So, there would have to be huge concessions made by both sides to get the language in the next CBA.

Article 12 of the CBA goes into what is considered AR (All Revenues). You can get a good idea of the revenue that Khan can generate by owning Wembley.

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf

Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Lostwave on May 01, 2018, 09:13:34 AM
Everbank letters came off the stadium yesterday.  Unfortunately they went into a dumpster.  I wanted to grab one, but they are huge.  Even the little letter r was taller than 6'.

I have some photos I will try to post.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on May 01, 2018, 11:46:32 AM
Everbank letters came off the stadium yesterday.  Unfortunately they went into a dumpster.  I wanted to grab one, but they are huge.  Even the little letter r was taller than 6'.

I have some photos I will try to post.

Similar to the Greyhound logo that just got shipped to a warehouse in Orlando, you'd think that there would be some value to retaining stadium signage in case we ever decided to open a local sports museum.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Tacachale on May 01, 2018, 12:12:33 PM
I take exception to some comments a few days back that said effectively that Jacksonville needs to hurry up and give Khan the development deal he wants, or face losing the Jags. What Jacksonville really needs to do is work with Khan on a realistic deal that makes sense for the city, weighing the benefits to the team against the costs of the deal and the opportunity cost of what else we could do with the money. If there's a deal out there that works out, grab it. If not, pass. Not all deals that Khan may pitch are good for the city.

I presume this is directed towards my earlier posts? If so, in no way did I imply that the City should give Khan whatever he wants. Merely that the City and various public agencies need to be ready to play big league ball and hold up their end of the partnership.

I don't remember who posted what exactly, but yeah - the city should be ready to play big league ball, but that means determining what's really a good deal, and what's rolling over. I don't think folks appreciate how close we were to giving away the store in 2015 when this was all first proposed.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: Lostwave on May 01, 2018, 12:38:32 PM
Everbank letters came off the stadium yesterday.  Unfortunately they went into a dumpster.  I wanted to grab one, but they are huge.  Even the little letter r was taller than 6'.

I have some photos I will try to post.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/949/26961666317_57645d6e31_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/H5vA4P)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/823/41787505872_bff046a47b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/26EBTDb)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/828/41787506742_fd1e1d99c8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/26EBTUb)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/959/26961665847_cac7263152_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/H5vzVH)
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on May 02, 2018, 10:49:56 AM
^Great pics!

Thanks for sharing!

We've talked a lot about whether the market is there for new office space downtown.

Here's a look at where things currently stand:

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/05/02/q1-office-reports-kbj-moves-into-bank-of-america.html
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: remc86007 on May 02, 2018, 11:48:21 AM
I can't believe some local bar owner hasn't taken the letters to have a massive illuminated sign that reads: Beer.
Title: Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
Post by: KenFSU on May 17, 2018, 10:26:38 AM
Per the JBJ:

1) The Jags plan to present a final development plan for Lot J by the end of the year.
2) Parking isn't a top priority for the Jags with Lot J. From the sounds of it, the parking garage might come later. They'd rather focus on a dense, walkable, pedestrian-friendly development than accommodate parking and vehicular traffic.
3) The city will soon begin adding in clean fill over the contaminated areas of Lot J
4) Unlike the Shipyards, the Jags are committed to coming up with the best design for the property and then addressing the contamination, rather than working around the existing contamination as they design