The Jaxson

Community => Parks, Recreation, and the Environment => Topic started by: KenFSU on February 05, 2018, 10:24:23 PM

Title: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: KenFSU on February 05, 2018, 10:24:23 PM
Going to make a catch-all thread for interesting projects in other cities.

Atlanta's planning a $100 million expansion of Piedmont Park:

https://atlanta.curbed.com/2018/1/2/16835620/piedmont-park-expansion-monroe-drive?lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_feed%3BBJ63oxzDRaedwmAgFf1UQQ%3D%3D
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: KenFSU on February 05, 2018, 10:31:28 PM
360 Market Square in Indianapolis is another cool project.

Built on the site of the former Market Square Arena, the 26-story mixed use project combines residential and a 42,000 square foot Whole Foods.

(https://snag.gy/UPAX6k.jpg)

Also interesting that even in a city like Indianapolis, that we think of as being light years ahead of Jacksonville in terms of downtown development, still needed to subsidize the project to the tune of $5 million in free land and $17 million in TIF funding.

https://www.ibj.com/articles/65713-after-overcoming-abundance-of-obstacles-360-market-square-nears-completion
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: TimmyB on February 05, 2018, 10:37:42 PM
Grand Rapids is turning a surface parking lot behind their sports/concert arena into a massive hotel/apartment/retail/movie theater complex. 

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2017/08/studio_park_movie_complex_comi.html (http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2017/08/studio_park_movie_complex_comi.html)

(http://i.cubeupload.com/PwBMOf.jpg)
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: marcuscnelson on February 05, 2018, 11:28:55 PM
So this is going to be the thread of shame, isn't it?

I really hope we'll be able to take lessons from some of these other cities and apply it here.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on February 06, 2018, 07:00:03 PM
I am really amazed how much Atlanta has changed in just ten years since I left there!
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: JaxAvondale on February 06, 2018, 10:24:52 PM
I’ll be in Indianapolis in a few weeks. I’ll have to check out the site.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: BenderRodriguez on February 07, 2018, 01:15:41 AM
So this is going to be the thread of shame, isn't it?


My thoughts exactly. Let's all try not to get too depressed in here, folks.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on February 07, 2018, 06:32:11 AM
The Orlando Magic's entertainment complex that's currently under construction in Downtown Orlando:

(http://pvp.trb.com/3690581442001/2017/03/3690581442001_5377981447001_image-1490811966900.jpg?pubId=3690581442001)

The city also gave 10.9 acres valued at $14.9 million to UCF last year to bring a college campus and nearly 8,000 students to downtown. That project is called Creative Village:

(http://www.trbimg.com/img-55451a33/turbine/gs-creative-village-20150410/950/950x534)

Quote
UCF/Valencia Downtown Campus Broke Ground on May 11, 2017
The University of Central Florida, Valencia College, City of Orlando and Creative Village Development, LLC broke ground on the new Downtown Campus on May 11, 2017. The first phase of the Downtown Campus includes:


A $60 million, 148,000-square foot academic building named the Dr. Phillips Academic Commons, designed by Robert A.M. Stern Architects (RAMSA) and SchenkelShultz Architecture; to be completed in August 2019. 
 $5 million renovation to the UCF Center for Emerging Media (CEM) and Florida Entertainment Academy (FIEA building; to be completed in August 2019.
A $9 million, 600-space parking garage and a tri-generation utility plant; to be completed in August 2019.
A $105 million, 600-bed privately developed student housing project with 105,000 SF of education space leased to UCF and Valencia College, 12,000 SF of ground floor commercial and a 600-space integrated parking garage; to be completed August 2019.

Phase I of the UCF/Valencia Downtown Campus will bring over 7,700 students to downtown Orlando when it opens August 2019, with future plans to accommodate 10,000 - 15,000+ students. Many community leaders attended the groundbreaking celebration, including Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer, Orange County Mayor Teresa Jacobs, UCF Provost Dr. Dale Whittaker, Valencia College President Dr. Sandy Shugart, former President of the Florida Senate Andy Gardiner, former Speaker of the Florida House of Representatives Steve Crisafulli, Orlando District 5 Commissioner Regina Hill, UCF Board of Trustees Chairman Marcos Marchena, and Dr. Phillips Charities President Ken Robinson.

http://creativevillageorlando.com/
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: BenderRodriguez on February 07, 2018, 11:15:51 AM

The city also gave 10.9 acres valued at $14.9 million to UCF last year to bring a college campus and nearly 8,000 students to downtown. That project is called Creative Village:

(http://www.trbimg.com/img-55451a33/turbine/gs-creative-village-20150410/950/950x534)


With the new influx of housing in LaVilla, also with JU and FSCJ making investments and moves downtown. Wouldn't be advantageous for UNF to pursue a campus of this type in the area (LaVilla) as well?
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: marcuscnelson on February 07, 2018, 06:57:00 PM
With the new influx of housing in LaVilla, also with JU and FSCJ making investments and moves downtown. Wouldn't be advantageous for UNF to pursue a campus of this type in the area (LaVilla) as well?

There've been calls for UNF to do this, but so far it hasn't been clear that they actually want to. So far they've chosen to focus on their main campus while FSCJ has been driving some change downtown.

Besides, I don't know if UNF is ready to spend $180 million on not just campus improvements, but building a new campus entirely.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: TimmyB on February 07, 2018, 07:07:47 PM
With the new influx of housing in LaVilla, also with JU and FSCJ making investments and moves downtown. Wouldn't be advantageous for UNF to pursue a campus of this type in the area (LaVilla) as well?

There've been calls for UNF to do this, but so far it hasn't been clear that they actually want to. So far they've chosen to focus on their main campus while FSCJ has been driving some change downtown.

Besides, I don't know if UNF is ready to spend $180 million on not just campus improvements, but building a new campus entirely.

Agreed.  It MIGHT make sense if (a) UNF was out of space to build/expand (not even close to that) or (b) there was a new college being created at the university where being downtown or on the riverfront made it practical to be there.  There has to be something for them to gain to actually move or expand to another location and I don't see ANY for them to do that.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Sonic101 on February 07, 2018, 09:25:05 PM
The city of Flint, Michigan is forging ahead on its plan to restore the Flint Riverfront. It includes turning the old 'Chevy in the Hole' site (former manufacturing site and current brownfield) into a large park, replacing a dam with a series of small weirs (7 total it seems) that allow kayakers and fish to navigate the river. Additionally it turns the old railroad through the site into a trail and replaces almost all of the old Flint Waterworks (park with a lot of concrete aqueducts and water features) with more greenery. Part of Chevy in the Hole has already been turned into a park called Chevy Commons and the dam removal should take place this year.

I went to college in Flint so I'm eager to see the city make strides like this. Chevy in the Hole is a giant concrete pad basically and the river's banks are steep concrete slabs. It'll be great to see these eyesores gone.

Finding a good site plan is difficult as it seems to be changing every year, but this one has Chevy Commons as it is now:
(http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/flint-journal/photo/2017/05/09/-2467b8ad862ecedb.JPG)

River access downtown as well:
(http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/flint-journal/photo/2017/05/09/-9792f79b7ab2e2c8.JPG)

Flint River Corridor Alliance:
http://www.frcalliance.org/frrp/ (http://www.frcalliance.org/frrp/)

The contractor's master plan (which differs a bit):
http://www.wadetrim.com/hamilton_dam/reports/Flint-Riverfront-Restoration-Plan.pdf (http://www.wadetrim.com/hamilton_dam/reports/Flint-Riverfront-Restoration-Plan.pdf)

TLDR news article via MLive:
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2017/05/downtown_flint_river_landscape.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2017/05/downtown_flint_river_landscape.html)

Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: TimmyB on February 07, 2018, 09:43:27 PM
The city of Flint, Michigan is forging ahead on its plan to restore the Flint Riverfront. It includes turning the old 'Chevy in the Hole' site (former manufacturing site and current brownfield) into a large park, replacing a dam with a series of small weirs (7 total it seems) that allow kayakers and fish to navigate the river. Additionally it turns the old railroad through the site into a trail and replaces almost all of the old Flint Waterworks (park with a lot of concrete aqueducts and water features) with more greenery. Part of Chevy in the Hole has already been turned into a park called Chevy Commons and the dam removal should take place this year.

I went to college in Flint so I'm eager to see the city make strides like this. Chevy in the Hole is a giant concrete pad basically and the river's banks are steep concrete slabs. It'll be great to see these eyesores gone.

Finding a good site plan is difficult as it seems to be changing every year, but this one has Chevy Commons as it is now:
(http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/flint-journal/photo/2017/05/09/-2467b8ad862ecedb.JPG)

River access downtown as well:
(http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/flint-journal/photo/2017/05/09/-9792f79b7ab2e2c8.JPG)

Flint River Corridor Alliance:
http://www.frcalliance.org/frrp/ (http://www.frcalliance.org/frrp/)

The contractor's master plan (which differs a bit):
http://www.wadetrim.com/hamilton_dam/reports/Flint-Riverfront-Restoration-Plan.pdf (http://www.wadetrim.com/hamilton_dam/reports/Flint-Riverfront-Restoration-Plan.pdf)

TLDR news article via MLive:
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2017/05/downtown_flint_river_landscape.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2017/05/downtown_flint_river_landscape.html)

That looks awesome.  Any ideas of completion time?  I'd love to kayak that when I go back to Michigan to visit.  Kettering grad?
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on February 08, 2018, 06:38:41 AM
Water Street Tampa

Quote
Tampa is on the precipice of a bold transformation. More than 50 acres in the heart of downtown will become Water Street Tampa, a truly mixed-use neighborhood developed by Strategic Property Partners, LLC.

Water Street Tampa will create 2 million square feet of new office space, including downtown Tampa’s first new office towers in nearly 25 years.

Approximately 3,500 new rental and for-sale residences are planned to nearly double the number of housing units available within downtown Tampa.

Water Street Tampa is surrounded by existing cultural, entertainment, and community anchors including the Tampa Convention Center, Amalie Arena where the Tampa Bay Lightning play, Tampa Bay History Center, Florida Aquarium, and Tampa Riverwalk. The project will connect these community anchors to a network of new and enhanced public areas.

An active pedestrian experience is at the heart of the design – Water Street Tampa will add 1 million square feet of new retail, cultural, educational, and entertainment space at the street-level, as well as 12.9 acres of new and enhanced park and public gathering places.

Water Street Tampa will host two new hotels with over 650 new rooms, including the city’s first 5-star hotel. A $40 million renovation to the existing Marriott Waterside is also planned.

The University of South Florida will relocate the Morsani College of Medicine and Health Heart Institute to Water Street Tampa, opening to students in the fall of 2019.

Water Street Tampa will set a new standard for wellness and sustainability as the world’s first WELL-certified community under the WELL Community Standard.

Water Street Tampa is a vibrant vision for the future of our city and for the 23,000+ people who live, work, study, and visit Tampa Bay each day.

https://waterstreettampa.com/

(https://media.bizj.us/view/img/4648211/mastervision*xx.jpg)

(http://www.tampabay.com/storyimage/HI/20171204/ARTICLE/312049505/AR/0/AR-312049505.jpg)
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Sonic101 on February 08, 2018, 07:49:11 AM
That looks awesome.  Any ideas of completion time?  I'd love to kayak that when I go back to Michigan to visit.  Kettering grad?

The Flint River Corridor Alliance's web-page for Chevy Commons breaks up the Chevy in the Hole site into 6 phases, with Phase 1 (maybe 2 as well?) being the only one completed at the moment. No idea if the dam removal this year also includes the building of the man made rapids. I would guess this is a 10 year or so project completed as funding becomes available. And yes, Kettering grad.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Lostwave on February 08, 2018, 09:24:47 AM
Water Street Tampa

This will be awesome.  The channelside district is already great, and all this area was/is an industrial concrete wasteland.  This type of project is what really revitalizes a downtown.  Luckily for Tampa they have Vinik who is investing huge in this area (and making a ton of money in the process).  This is the kind of thing that I hope happens to the shipyards... and eventually all of our northbank.

Also new Rays stadium will eventually most likely end up just northeast of this.  If they can get the right kind of infill between the two areas... wow, downtown Tampa will be unrecognizable from its current state (which is very similar to DT Jax).
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: KenFSU on February 08, 2018, 09:45:18 AM
Water Street Tampa

Quote
Tampa is on the precipice of a bold transformation. More than 50 acres in the heart of downtown will become Water Street Tampa, a truly mixed-use neighborhood developed by Strategic Property Partners, LLC.

Water Street Tampa will create 2 million square feet of new office space, including downtown Tampa’s first new office towers in nearly 25 years.

Approximately 3,500 new rental and for-sale residences are planned to nearly double the number of housing units available within downtown Tampa.

Water Street Tampa is surrounded by existing cultural, entertainment, and community anchors including the Tampa Convention Center, Amalie Arena where the Tampa Bay Lightning play, Tampa Bay History Center, Florida Aquarium, and Tampa Riverwalk. The project will connect these community anchors to a network of new and enhanced public areas.

An active pedestrian experience is at the heart of the design – Water Street Tampa will add 1 million square feet of new retail, cultural, educational, and entertainment space at the street-level, as well as 12.9 acres of new and enhanced park and public gathering places.

Water Street Tampa will host two new hotels with over 650 new rooms, including the city’s first 5-star hotel. A $40 million renovation to the existing Marriott Waterside is also planned.

The University of South Florida will relocate the Morsani College of Medicine and Health Heart Institute to Water Street Tampa, opening to students in the fall of 2019.

Water Street Tampa will set a new standard for wellness and sustainability as the world’s first WELL-certified community under the WELL Community Standard.

Water Street Tampa is a vibrant vision for the future of our city and for the 23,000+ people who live, work, study, and visit Tampa Bay each day.

https://waterstreettampa.com/

(https://media.bizj.us/view/img/4648211/mastervision*xx.jpg)

(http://www.tampabay.com/storyimage/HI/20171204/ARTICLE/312049505/AR/0/AR-312049505.jpg)

It's like a much larger Shipyards, but real!
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: JaxAvondale on February 08, 2018, 09:55:49 AM
I stayed in downtown Tampa earlier this week for the first time in 7-8 years. I was amazed at their downtown transformation. I ventured out to their historic district and was very impressed with how they transformed their shops area.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: jaxjaguar on February 08, 2018, 10:17:41 PM
Someone mentioned a few of the Orlando projects earlier... That was only 2 of I don't even know how many. There are 5 construction cranes downtown right now. The Dr Phillips Performing Arts Center is working on their Phase 2 expansion. 1 New office tower is going in and 2 mixed use office / apartment towers are going up. Amway center and UCF expansions are well underway as mentioned earlier. A 6th and 7th crane will be showing up soon as Orlando Health is preparing to build a 550' Medical facility and another mixed use project which includes a terminal for Sunrail will be starting before Q4...

That's all just downtown and MAJOR projects CURRENTLY under construction. 2 new high rises were just completed in the past 2-3 months. One being apartments and the other condos. There have been tons of new little shops and restaurants popping up due to the explosion of people living downtown.

Universal is also pumping out millions of dollars for 3 new high rise resorts, pedestrian bridges, offices, warehouse space, and land purchases.

MCO airport is wrapping up their massive expansion too, which will be a much needed improvement to what is a nightmarishly busy airport.

Jacksonville just doesn't have anyone who's willing to drop hundreds of millions of dollars other than Khan. :/ I see little things pop up every time I'm up there, but it's really sad how far behind Orlando it is now. I remember when Orlando was a joke just a few years ago.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: MusicMan on February 09, 2018, 01:35:53 PM
Something wrong.....There's grass on the roof!
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: JaxAvondale on February 09, 2018, 03:23:52 PM
The Rays want to move to Ybor.

http://www.tbo.com/news/politics/local/Live-Rays-to-announce-Ybor-City-as-preferred-stadium-site_165326014?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on February 09, 2018, 05:37:04 PM
I wonder how they plan to seamlessly fit a modeen baseball stadium and associated parking into a historic district?
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: marcuscnelson on February 10, 2018, 03:25:19 AM
I wonder how they plan to seamlessly fit a modeen baseball stadium and associated parking into a historic district?

I mean, the article suggests a lot of older warehouses in that area, so it's possible they may find a way to develop a site plan that strategically demolishes certain structures and works around the rest.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on February 10, 2018, 08:29:13 AM
Yes, many of the warehouses are historic and it also has a historic urban street grid. I don't see it happening with a lot of demolition and creation of a super block. It will be interesting to see what they have in mind.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Lostwave on February 12, 2018, 09:50:37 AM
Yes, many of the warehouses are historic and it also has a historic urban street grid. I don't see it happening with a lot of demolition and creation of a super block. It will be interesting to see what they have in mind.

There is already a highway cutting through this area which breaks up the grid.  But its south of Ybor proper and north of the proposed fancy development above.  Seems like a great location to me.

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Nll6V_EJ-zwCSAqk4XypVNLLlCo=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9534509/tampa_site_10.png)
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Tacachale on February 12, 2018, 11:09:46 AM
I wonder how they plan to seamlessly fit a modeen baseball stadium and associated parking into a historic district?

HAHAHAHA! You're so funny, Ennis.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: jaxjaguar on February 13, 2018, 10:10:35 AM
3 more towers for Orlando announced this week. Just awaiting approval from the FAA (expected to come in April). The billion dollar project consists of 300', 450' and 540' towers spanning about 1.5 acres downtown.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: FlaBoy on February 13, 2018, 10:22:04 AM
Water Street Tampa

Quote
Tampa is on the precipice of a bold transformation. More than 50 acres in the heart of downtown will become Water Street Tampa, a truly mixed-use neighborhood developed by Strategic Property Partners, LLC.

Water Street Tampa will create 2 million square feet of new office space, including downtown Tampa’s first new office towers in nearly 25 years.

Approximately 3,500 new rental and for-sale residences are planned to nearly double the number of housing units available within downtown Tampa.

Water Street Tampa is surrounded by existing cultural, entertainment, and community anchors including the Tampa Convention Center, Amalie Arena where the Tampa Bay Lightning play, Tampa Bay History Center, Florida Aquarium, and Tampa Riverwalk. The project will connect these community anchors to a network of new and enhanced public areas.

An active pedestrian experience is at the heart of the design – Water Street Tampa will add 1 million square feet of new retail, cultural, educational, and entertainment space at the street-level, as well as 12.9 acres of new and enhanced park and public gathering places.

Water Street Tampa will host two new hotels with over 650 new rooms, including the city’s first 5-star hotel. A $40 million renovation to the existing Marriott Waterside is also planned.

The University of South Florida will relocate the Morsani College of Medicine and Health Heart Institute to Water Street Tampa, opening to students in the fall of 2019.

Water Street Tampa will set a new standard for wellness and sustainability as the world’s first WELL-certified community under the WELL Community Standard.

Water Street Tampa is a vibrant vision for the future of our city and for the 23,000+ people who live, work, study, and visit Tampa Bay each day.

https://waterstreettampa.com/

(https://media.bizj.us/view/img/4648211/mastervision*xx.jpg)

(http://www.tampabay.com/storyimage/HI/20171204/ARTICLE/312049505/AR/0/AR-312049505.jpg)

It's like a much larger Shipyards, but real!

It is not real yet. But they have Vinik pouring a lot of money into it especially to get the JW Marriott done. The only other added component that is DEFINITELY happening is the new USF campus/med school downtown (HEY UNF, time to grow). There is nothing particularly special about their plan other than that and some of the momentum they already had in Channelside and having a convention center that attracts people downtown every weekend along with the arena.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: KenFSU on February 22, 2018, 02:28:36 PM
Crazy how much Midtown Atlanta continues to grow.

Saw a new urban Whole Foods (with rooftop terrace) going up on 14th.

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/GdHgW3IBK-0xojRLeIVeom2OmVE=/1000x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6191047/whole-foods-market14th-streetrendering062415*750xx729-410-36-0.jpg)

https://atlanta.curbed.com/2018/2/7/16983986/midtown-atlanta-whole-foods-icon-construction
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: KenFSU on June 01, 2018, 04:59:36 PM
A Jacksonville developer just broke ground on a $1 billion dollar urban, mixed-use development... in Sarasota.

Quote
Jacksonville-based GreenPointe starts work on $1 billion Sarasota project
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/styles/sliders_and_planned_story_image_870x580/public/181582_standard.jpeg?itok=uI9pFxpC)

It’s the first urban, mixed-use project for master developer.

by: Daily Record Staff

Four years after buying a 15-acre waterfront site in downtown Sarasota for $27 million, Jacksonville-based GreenPointe Communities LLC’s  infrastructure work is underway on the project.

The $1 billion mixed-use Quay Sarasota Waterfront District will comprise about 700 residences, 175 hotel rooms and more than 200,000 square feet of office and retail space.

“It’s been a little more than three years in the making to get us to this day,” said GreenPointe Communities President Grady Miars at a May 23 groundbreaking. “This site provides an excellent opportunity to do what we think we do well, which is create a sense of place.”

Miars said GreenPointe is concerned that the economy might turn down before the project is complete, but that the Quay’s “grid system” should buffer against recession.

“The block plan that we’ve developed for the property allows us to do infrastructure work and bring projects on incrementally, if necessary,” he said. “So if the economy were to slow down at some point, we also could slow down our pace of development there.”

Miars said the project — GreenPointe’s first urban, mixed-use development following a series of single-family communities around the state — likely won’t reach build-out until 2023 or as late as 2025.

The groundbreaking initiates the start of water, sewer and utility construction including a storm treatment vault and basic road structure that will serve the Quay Sarasota Waterfront District and the Sarasota Downtown Bayfront District.

“Since acquiring the property, we have been working with Sarasota city leaders to design and create a sense of place that will make a lasting contribution to the Sarasota community,” Miars said in a news release.

GreenPointe Communities is collaborating with students from Sarasota’s Booker High School STEM program on the project.

The goal is to provide students real-world experience in the planning, design and construction of the development.

GreenPointe Communities in  Northeast Florida include TrailMark and EvenTide in St. Johns County and Amelia Walk in Fernandina Beach.

In August, GreenPointe purchased 188 acres in northwest Clay County to build a 500-home master-planned community called GreyHawk.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-based-greenpointe-starts-work-on-dollar1-billion-sarasota-project

Ritz-Carlton just signed on to build an 18-story condo tower within the development.

Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Captain Zissou on June 01, 2018, 05:03:22 PM
^ Saw that.  That's insane.  If it goes well, maybe we can get them to take a stab at something here. 
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: jagsonville on June 01, 2018, 06:40:07 PM
Too bad a local company didn’t look into the old Southside generation station... :o
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on June 01, 2018, 08:21:08 PM
A Jacksonville developer just broke ground on a $1 billion dollar urban, mixed-use development... in Sarasota.

Quote
Jacksonville-based GreenPointe starts work on $1 billion Sarasota project
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/styles/sliders_and_planned_story_image_870x580/public/181582_standard.jpeg?itok=uI9pFxpC)

It’s the first urban, mixed-use project for master developer.

by: Daily Record Staff

Four years after buying a 15-acre waterfront site in downtown Sarasota for $27 million, Jacksonville-based GreenPointe Communities LLC’s  infrastructure work is underway on the project.

The $1 billion mixed-use Quay Sarasota Waterfront District will comprise about 700 residences, 175 hotel rooms and more than 200,000 square feet of office and retail space.

“It’s been a little more than three years in the making to get us to this day,” said GreenPointe Communities President Grady Miars at a May 23 groundbreaking. “This site provides an excellent opportunity to do what we think we do well, which is create a sense of place.”

Miars said GreenPointe is concerned that the economy might turn down before the project is complete, but that the Quay’s “grid system” should buffer against recession.

“The block plan that we’ve developed for the property allows us to do infrastructure work and bring projects on incrementally, if necessary,” he said. “So if the economy were to slow down at some point, we also could slow down our pace of development there.”

Miars said the project — GreenPointe’s first urban, mixed-use development following a series of single-family communities around the state — likely won’t reach build-out until 2023 or as late as 2025.

The groundbreaking initiates the start of water, sewer and utility construction including a storm treatment vault and basic road structure that will serve the Quay Sarasota Waterfront District and the Sarasota Downtown Bayfront District.

“Since acquiring the property, we have been working with Sarasota city leaders to design and create a sense of place that will make a lasting contribution to the Sarasota community,” Miars said in a news release.

GreenPointe Communities is collaborating with students from Sarasota’s Booker High School STEM program on the project.

The goal is to provide students real-world experience in the planning, design and construction of the development.

GreenPointe Communities in  Northeast Florida include TrailMark and EvenTide in St. Johns County and Amelia Walk in Fernandina Beach.

In August, GreenPointe purchased 188 acres in northwest Clay County to build a 500-home master-planned community called GreyHawk.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-based-greenpointe-starts-work-on-dollar1-billion-sarasota-project

Ritz-Carlton just signed on to build an 18-story condo tower within the development.


That's Ed Burr's company. When he had LandMar, he tried to pull off the Shipyards.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: BridgeTroll on June 02, 2018, 09:48:42 AM
Currently in Nashville... construction literally everywhere... amazing...
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: vicupstate on June 02, 2018, 05:51:42 PM
Currently in Nashville... construction literally everywhere... amazing...

Well Nashville is consolidated with Davidson County, so I guess that means all the construction you are seeing is in the suburban areas? We all know consolidation is poison for development in the urban core.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: BridgeTroll on June 02, 2018, 06:15:27 PM
Currently in Nashville... construction literally everywhere... amazing...

Well Nashville is consolidated with Davidson County, so I guess that means all the construction you are seeing is in the suburban areas? We all know consolidation is poison for development in the urban core.
Apparently not in Nashville...
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: vicupstate on June 02, 2018, 10:46:58 PM
Currently in Nashville... construction literally everywhere... amazing...

Well Nashville is consolidated with Davidson County, so I guess that means all the construction you are seeing is in the suburban areas? We all know consolidation is poison for development in the urban core.
Apparently not in Nashville...

I was being snarky. The ONLY place where people blame consolidation for such things is JAX.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: I-10east on June 03, 2018, 03:34:09 AM
So this is going to be the thread of shame, isn't it?


My thoughts exactly. Let's all try not to get too depressed in here, folks.

I don't feel that way at all. I'm just like "great for all of these cities" without any envy or depression at all. Some of these projects are very comparable to Jax (past and future projects). Like what's going on at the sports complex. Of course everyone wanna act like Jax has NO NEW DEVELOPMENT AT ALL and that's clearly not the case. 
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 03, 2018, 01:20:57 PM
Jax could use some shaming - and a lot of it, because nothing else seems to be working.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: avonjax on June 03, 2018, 03:27:58 PM
Sorry folks but we are falling so far behind Orlando and Tampa we may never catch up. Oh well. And the Sarasota project looks really great but not Jacksonville? Oh well. Maybe someday.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kiva on June 03, 2018, 04:01:27 PM
Jacksonville will be a fantastic city with lots of cool projects like these...around the time that nuclear fusion is commercially viable!
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Charles Hunter on June 03, 2018, 04:04:52 PM
Jacksonville will be a fantastic city with lots of cool projects like these...around the time that nuclear fusion is commercially viable!

And the generating plants are located on barges surrounded by artificial reefs.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: billy on June 03, 2018, 04:40:37 PM
Westinghouse Tenneco Offshore Power Systems shout out!
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 03, 2018, 07:03:56 PM
For those not aware of Omaha, they are booming.

http://www.omaha.com/special_sections/on-the-move-big-bold-real-estate-developments-in-greater/article_9ca52f3f-66b2-544a-adf0-bf755505cdbd.html
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on June 03, 2018, 07:17:44 PM
Sorry folks but we are falling so far behind Orlando and Tampa we may never catch up. Oh well. And the Sarasota project looks really great but not Jacksonville? Oh well. Maybe someday.

If talking about "new" urban development, we fell behind Tampa and Orlando back in the 1990s.  I wouldn't worry about catching them because that's not happening. As far as Sarasota goes....meh. Cool little city but it's really small and sucks if you care about cultural diversity.

Where they'll never match us (well at least Orlando) is history and the built environment that comes with being a decent sized city before WWII. We have neighborhoods and historic commercial strips that Orlando will never be able to have. We have architectural styles and a setting that Tampa will never have. These are things we should be valuing and taking advantage of. Anyone can build a stick built apartment complex and stick a ramen bar in it. However, only a select few have a Barnett, Laura Trio, Durkeeville, Springfield Warehouse District, Talleyrand, Hogans Creek, etc. to play with.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: KenFSU on June 03, 2018, 11:14:28 PM
Sorry folks but we are falling so far behind Orlando and Tampa we may never catch up. Oh well. And the Sarasota project looks really great but not Jacksonville? Oh well. Maybe someday.
As far as Sarasota goes....meh. Cool little city but it's really small and sucks if you care about cultural diversity.

Plus very few jobs.

Great if you're a wealthy retiree looking for a winter home and some beautiful beaches, lifeless if you're a young professional looking for a place to establish a career and raise a family.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Adam White on June 04, 2018, 05:05:19 AM
Sorry folks but we are falling so far behind Orlando and Tampa we may never catch up. Oh well. And the Sarasota project looks really great but not Jacksonville? Oh well. Maybe someday.
As far as Sarasota goes....meh. Cool little city but it's really small and sucks if you care about cultural diversity.

Plus very few jobs.

Great if you're a wealthy retiree looking for a winter home and some beautiful beaches, lifeless if you're a young professional looking for a place to establish a career and raise a family.

My parents moved to Sarasota in 1995. They love it. I, on the other hand, can't stand it. The downtown and the bits near the water are okay, but overall it's just really boring and lacks any personality. And it's always hot and muggy.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 04, 2018, 08:09:55 AM
Lol - Sarasota is boring and no good paying jobs.  Sounds like a lot of complaints I hear about Jax.

I think this might apply to the Sarasota topic.


Æsop. (Sixth century B.C.)  Fables.
The Harvard Classics.  1909–14.
 
The Fox and the Grapes
 
 
ONE hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.”

“IT IS EASY TO DESPISE WHAT YOU CANNOT GET.”
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Adam White on June 04, 2018, 08:15:35 AM
Lol - Sarasota is boring and no good paying jobs.  Sounds like a lot of complaints I hear about Jax.

I think this might apply to the Sarasota topic.


Æsop. (Sixth century B.C.)  Fables.
The Harvard Classics.  1909–14.
 
The Fox and the Grapes
 
 
ONE hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.”

“IT IS EASY TO DESPISE WHAT YOU CANNOT GET.”

Yeah, I remember that fable from elementary school.

I also remember Sarasota from my annual visits. Trust me - I'd choose Jax over Sarasota all day long. In fact, I did. That's not to say that Jax is perfect or whatever - it's just more the kind of place I'd rather live.

I do love Tampa, though.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 04, 2018, 08:21:41 AM
Where they'll never match us (well at least Orlando) is history and the built environment that comes with being a decent sized city before WWII. We have neighborhoods and historic commercial strips that Orlando will never be able to have.

Never say never.

http://www.cityoforlando.net/business-development/main-street-market-street/
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on June 04, 2018, 08:28:30 AM
Never!! I'm living part time in Orlando now. I'm not impressed with its historic built environment. While there are some cool areas it's no comparison to what you can find in Jax and Tampa.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 04, 2018, 09:58:44 AM
Winter Park and Rollins College area is pretty darn nice.  Jax has nothing like that.  Not really a fan of Orlando myself though.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Tacachale on June 04, 2018, 10:19:05 AM
Jax could use some shaming - and a lot of it, because nothing else seems to be working.

This comment made me laugh out loud. Jax had nothing but shaming for decades. If that really worked, we'd be New York City by now.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Tacachale on June 04, 2018, 10:24:21 AM
Sorry folks but we are falling so far behind Orlando and Tampa we may never catch up. Oh well. And the Sarasota project looks really great but not Jacksonville? Oh well. Maybe someday.
As far as Sarasota goes....meh. Cool little city but it's really small and sucks if you care about cultural diversity.

Plus very few jobs.

Great if you're a wealthy retiree looking for a winter home and some beautiful beaches, lifeless if you're a young professional looking for a place to establish a career and raise a family.

Sorry folks but we are falling so far behind Orlando and Tampa we may never catch up. Oh well. And the Sarasota project looks really great but not Jacksonville? Oh well. Maybe someday.
As far as Sarasota goes....meh. Cool little city but it's really small and sucks if you care about cultural diversity.

Plus very few jobs.

Great if you're a wealthy retiree looking for a winter home and some beautiful beaches, lifeless if you're a young professional looking for a place to establish a career and raise a family.

My parents moved to Sarasota in 1995. They love it. I, on the other hand, can't stand it. The downtown and the bits near the water are okay, but overall it's just really boring and lacks any personality. And it's always hot and muggy.

My father in law lives in Punta Gorda. Sarasota is pretty nice compared to the rest of Southwest Florida, and I'm sure it's great if you're a retiree who wants to live mostly around other retirees. It has a few cool pockets, but very little you can't find elsewhere.

I haven't been in years but I remember the aquarium being pretty cool.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Tacachale on June 04, 2018, 10:32:34 AM
Lol - Sarasota is boring and no good paying jobs.  Sounds like a lot of complaints I hear about Jax.

I think this might apply to the Sarasota topic.


Æsop. (Sixth century B.C.)  Fables.
The Harvard Classics.  1909–14.
 
The Fox and the Grapes
 
 
ONE hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.”

“IT IS EASY TO DESPISE WHAT YOU CANNOT GET.”

Yeah, I remember that fable from elementary school.

I also remember Sarasota from my annual visits. Trust me - I'd choose Jax over Sarasota all day long. In fact, I did. That's not to say that Jax is perfect or whatever - it's just more the kind of place I'd rather live.

I do love Tampa, though.

The people who find Jax boring or that it has no good paying jobs would find Sarasota to be a whole new circle of hell after about 2 days.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Tacachale on June 04, 2018, 10:45:52 AM
Never!! I'm living part time in Orlando now. I'm not impressed with its historic built environment. While there are some cool areas it's no comparison to what you can find in Jax and Tampa.

Orlando has its pockets (College Park and Winter Park are nice). They've also done a good job making their downtown more lively than it used to be IMO. Considering that it's competing with the mouse and all that I-4 sprawl, they're a good example of making the most of limited resources. I say that as someone who really doesn't like Orlando.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: KenFSU on June 04, 2018, 10:48:02 AM
Lol - Sarasota is boring and no good paying jobs.  Sounds like a lot of complaints I hear about Jax.

I think this might apply to the Sarasota topic.


Æsop. (Sixth century B.C.)  Fables.
The Harvard Classics.  1909–14.
 
The Fox and the Grapes
 
 
ONE hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.”

“IT IS EASY TO DESPISE WHAT YOU CANNOT GET.”

Yeah, I remember that fable from elementary school.

I also remember Sarasota from my annual visits. Trust me - I'd choose Jax over Sarasota all day long. In fact, I did. That's not to say that Jax is perfect or whatever - it's just more the kind of place I'd rather live.

I do love Tampa, though.

The people who find Jax boring or that it has no good paying jobs would find Sarasota to be a whole new circle of hell after about 2 days.

Agree. I've got family in Southwest Florida as well, and have spent an enormous amount of time in Sarasota. It's lovely, if generic, aside from the beaches, which are some of the best in the state. But it has no character. Most of the jobs there are retail and hospitality. I've had multiple friends take jobs with Wells Fargo down there, and their spouses - who were in high demand in Jacksonville with degrees from top universities in fields like marketing, advertising, biomed, and engineering - haven't been able to find decent jobs because the market is so small.

Happy that there's a billion dollar development going up in Sarasota, but not particularly jealous. Let them keep the retirees and snowbirds, clogging up the roads and restaurants and then disappearing at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Adam White on June 04, 2018, 10:54:01 AM
Lol - Sarasota is boring and no good paying jobs.  Sounds like a lot of complaints I hear about Jax.

I think this might apply to the Sarasota topic.


Æsop. (Sixth century B.C.)  Fables.
The Harvard Classics.  1909–14.
 
The Fox and the Grapes
 
 
ONE hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.”

“IT IS EASY TO DESPISE WHAT YOU CANNOT GET.”

Yeah, I remember that fable from elementary school.

I also remember Sarasota from my annual visits. Trust me - I'd choose Jax over Sarasota all day long. In fact, I did. That's not to say that Jax is perfect or whatever - it's just more the kind of place I'd rather live.

I do love Tampa, though.

The people who find Jax boring or that it has no good paying jobs would find Sarasota to be a whole new circle of hell after about 2 days.

Life is sloooooow down there. It has its scenic bits, but god is it dull. And yeah - Jax is way better for jobs.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 04, 2018, 10:56:32 AM
A bunch of Jax appoligist on a site that is supposed to be leading the way for urbanization.  No wonder the City Council and Mayor's office don't get anything done.  If the supposed fanaticals aren't even fanatic why should anyone be?
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Adam White on June 04, 2018, 11:06:34 AM
A bunch of Jax appoligist on a site that is supposed to be leading the way for urbanization.  No wonder the City Council and Mayor's office don't get anything done.  If the supposed fanaticals aren't even fanatic why should anyone be?

I'm not a "Jax apologist" - I just think Sarasota sucks. Why are you being a Sarasota apologist?
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: KenFSU on June 04, 2018, 11:14:58 AM
A bunch of Jax appoligist on a site that is supposed to be leading the way for urbanization.  No wonder the City Council and Mayor's office don't get anything done.  If the supposed fanaticals aren't even fanatic why should anyone be?

Define apologists? I'd give Jax an honest B- for this economic cycle thus far. The Landing and Shipyards will likely remain boondoggles for years to come, but you don't need to be an apologist to recognize that a lot of progress has been made in the last decade, headlined by the Barnett and Trio coming back to life, tons of new residential in LaVilla, solid development in Brooklyn, added residential on the southbank, a new amphitheater in the stadium district, endangered historic building stock coming back to life via Cowford Chophouse and 20 West, both of our major colleges investing in downtown, the new Regional Transportation Center going up, etc. No, there aren't cranes on every block like Tampa, Orlando, and Miami, but our downtown core is slowly progressing at a reasonable rate that the local market can sustain.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 04, 2018, 11:24:55 AM
I'm not a Sarasota appoligist but hells bells - if it sucks so bad and has this level of development then how bad must Jax suck?
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 04, 2018, 11:41:33 AM
A bunch of Jax appoligist on a site that is supposed to be leading the way for urbanization.  No wonder the City Council and Mayor's office don't get anything done.  If the supposed fanaticals aren't even fanatic why should anyone be?

Define apologists? I'd give Jax an honest B- for this economic cycle thus far. The Landing and Shipyards will likely remain boondoggles for years to come, but you don't need to be an apologist to recognize that a lot of progress has been made in the last decade, headlined by the Barnett and Trio coming back to life, tons of new residential in LaVilla, solid development in Brooklyn, added residential on the southbank, a new amphitheater in the stadium district, endangered historic building stock coming back to life via Cowford Chophouse and 20 West, both of our major colleges investing in downtown, the new Regional Transportation Center going up, etc. No, there aren't cranes on every block like Tampa, Orlando, and Miami, but our downtown core is slowly progressing at a reasonable rate that the local market can sustain.

I define it like that ^.  Dragging ass around the track at 1/3 the speed of peer cities while being 10 laps down isn't progress.  There is ZERO excuse for it.  If this was NASCAR we would be black flagged.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Adam White on June 04, 2018, 11:41:40 AM
I'm not a Sarasota appoligist but hells bells - if it sucks so bad and has this level of development then how bad must Jax suck?

It sucks because it's boring, full of old people, is really hot and muggy and lacks much in the way of personality. That's not to say they've not done stuff with the place - it's just not my cup of tea.

For example - some people would say that Buffalo, NY has undergone a renaissance and has shaken off the many decades of deterioration and funk that plagued the city. You still couldn't pay me to live there, though.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on June 04, 2018, 11:53:31 AM
Never!! I'm living part time in Orlando now. I'm not impressed with its historic built environment. While there are some cool areas it's no comparison to what you can find in Jax and Tampa.
Winter Park and Rollins College area is pretty darn nice.  Jax has nothing like that.  Not really a fan of Orlando myself though.
Riverside/Avondale/Oretga/Venetia. The layout is just different. In Winter Park the commercial corridor is limited to one or two main drags. In Riverside/Avondale it's split up among smaller neigborhood mixed use districts. Jax also has a hell of a lot more middle housing units. Winter Park is limited in that aspect of urbanity which drives up the costs. Both have great parks but Jax has more and I'll take the river over lakes any day. I do like Sunrail running through there though despite its poor service.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 04, 2018, 12:17:47 PM
I'm not a Sarasota appoligist but hells bells - if it sucks so bad and has this level of development then how bad must Jax suck?

It sucks because it's boring, full of old people, is really hot and muggy and lacks much in the way of personality. That's not to say they've not done stuff with the place - it's just not my cup of tea.

For example - some people would say that Buffalo, NY has undergone a renaissance and has shaken off the many decades of deterioration and funk that plagued the city. You still couldn't pay me to live there, though.

I get it, there are places I don't want to live either...but just dismissing urban progress because "I wouldn't want to live there" is totally missing the point.  If Sarasota, with all its faults, is generating this kind of development then clearly someone in City Hall has identified the problem and are taking steps to rectify it.  We need to be holding the City here accountable for their lack of progress as it relates to walkable urbanism - not dismissing progress in other places.  **** man, Omaha has 84 downtown and downtown adjacent projects geared towards walkable urbanism going on or recently completed.  We have are thumbs up our *** with low income housing while looking at pretty pictures from Khan.

http://www.omaha.com/money/more-than-dozen-development-projects-that-are-changing-the-nebraska/collection_9c41b0da-e7d0-11e6-b97a-17f4708285ab.html
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on June 04, 2018, 12:19:55 PM
Never!! I'm living part time in Orlando now. I'm not impressed with its historic built environment. While there are some cool areas it's no comparison to what you can find in Jax and Tampa.

Orlando has its pockets (College Park and Winter Park are nice). They've also done a good job making their downtown more lively than it used to be IMO. Considering that it's competing with the mouse and all that I-4 sprawl, they're a good example of making the most of limited resources. I say that as someone who really doesn't like Orlando.
College Park is a more expensive version of Murray Hill, IMO. Edgewater is Edgewood, just a decade ahead at this point, although College Park's housing is mid century ranch like Arlington if you like that style. I've explained my thoughts on Winter Park. Downtown and other areas nearby like Thorton Park are also nice. I never said it didn't have any nice areas. The scale of what you'd expect for a place with 2.5 million residents is simply too miniscule for my tastes. Minus the sprawl and a couple of streets downtown, it feels like a bigger, more expensive version of historic Lakeland.

What I like about Jax (even in its unpolished state) are the areas outside of the few neighborhoods millennials are attracted too. Brentwood, Panama Park, New Springfield, Durkeeville, Paxon, St. Nicholas, etc. Some amazing places that newer cities will never have. Then there's places like Atlantic Beach, Jax Beach, Mayport, Hanna Park, etc. I'll take those over I-Drive, neon lights and chain restaurants. If sprawl is your thing, there's not much difference between Millennia and Town Center. I'll also take Fernandina and St. Augustine over Sanford and Winter Garden (I like all of these places, btw).

Overall, I'm a guy that values cultural, architectural and historic urban diversity. Orlando simply doesn't have enough of those qualities for my tastes. In Florida, Jax, Tampa and Miami do.

So if I were Jax, I'd focus on improving what I already have that makes me special as opposed to trying to out Disney Orlando or out South Beach Miami. Those are fights Jax will never win.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Tacachale on June 04, 2018, 12:40:38 PM
Never!! I'm living part time in Orlando now. I'm not impressed with its historic built environment. While there are some cool areas it's no comparison to what you can find in Jax and Tampa.

Orlando has its pockets (College Park and Winter Park are nice). They've also done a good job making their downtown more lively than it used to be IMO. Considering that it's competing with the mouse and all that I-4 sprawl, they're a good example of making the most of limited resources. I say that as someone who really doesn't like Orlando.
College Park is a more expensive version of Murray Hill, IMO. Edgewater is Edgewood, just a decade ahead at this point, although College Park's housing is mid century ranch like Arlington if you like that style. I've explained my thoughts on Winter Park. Downtown and other areas nearby like Thorton Park are also nice. I never said it didn't have any nice areas. The scale of what you'd expect for a place with 2.5 million residents is simply too miniscule for my tastes. Minus the sprawl and a couple of streets downtown, it feels like a bigger, more expensive version of historic Lakeland.

What I like about Jax (even in its unpolished state) are the areas outside of the few neighborhoods millennials are attracted too. Brentwood, Panama Park, New Springfield, Durkeeville, Paxon, St. Nicholas, etc. Some amazing places that newer cities will never have. Then there's places like Atlantic Beach, Jax Beach, Mayport, Hanna Park, etc. I'll take those over I-Drive, neon lights and chain restaurants. If sprawl is your thing, there's not much difference between Millennia and Town Center. I'll also take Fernandina and St. Augustine over Sanford and Winter Garden (I like all of these places, btw).

Overall, I'm a guy that values cultural, architectural and historic urban diversity. Orlando simply doesn't have enough of those qualities for my tastes. In Florida, Jax, Tampa and Miami do.

So if I were Jax, I'd focus on improving what I already have that makes me special as opposed to trying to out Disney Orlando or out South Beach Miami. Those are fights Jax will never win.

Not disagreeing with you, just giving some (tepid) defenses of Orlando. Most of it objectively sucks, but there are some things they've done that are worth paying attention to. It's a lot better in some ways than it was when I lived there 17 years ago.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on June 04, 2018, 12:41:21 PM
I'm not a Sarasota appoligist but hells bells - if it sucks so bad and has this level of development then how bad must Jax suck?

It sucks because it's boring, full of old people, is really hot and muggy and lacks much in the way of personality. That's not to say they've not done stuff with the place - it's just not my cup of tea.

For example - some people would say that Buffalo, NY has undergone a renaissance and has shaken off the many decades of deterioration and funk that plagued the city. You still couldn't pay me to live there, though.
I'd do a Buffalo or Detroit before I'd consider a Sarasota for the same reasons I'm not crazy about Orlando. With that said, all of these places have made strides over the last decade. Jax could certainly learn a lesson or two when it comes to downtown redevelopment. Other than that, Jax holds its own.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on June 04, 2018, 12:49:03 PM
Never!! I'm living part time in Orlando now. I'm not impressed with its historic built environment. While there are some cool areas it's no comparison to what you can find in Jax and Tampa.

Orlando has its pockets (College Park and Winter Park are nice). They've also done a good job making their downtown more lively than it used to be IMO. Considering that it's competing with the mouse and all that I-4 sprawl, they're a good example of making the most of limited resources. I say that as someone who really doesn't like Orlando.
College Park is a more expensive version of Murray Hill, IMO. Edgewater is Edgewood, just a decade ahead at this point, although College Park's housing is mid century ranch like Arlington if you like that style. I've explained my thoughts on Winter Park. Downtown and other areas nearby like Thorton Park are also nice. I never said it didn't have any nice areas. The scale of what you'd expect for a place with 2.5 million residents is simply too miniscule for my tastes. Minus the sprawl and a couple of streets downtown, it feels like a bigger, more expensive version of historic Lakeland.

What I like about Jax (even in its unpolished state) are the areas outside of the few neighborhoods millennials are attracted too. Brentwood, Panama Park, New Springfield, Durkeeville, Paxon, St. Nicholas, etc. Some amazing places that newer cities will never have. Then there's places like Atlantic Beach, Jax Beach, Mayport, Hanna Park, etc. I'll take those over I-Drive, neon lights and chain restaurants. If sprawl is your thing, there's not much difference between Millennia and Town Center. I'll also take Fernandina and St. Augustine over Sanford and Winter Garden (I like all of these places, btw).

Overall, I'm a guy that values cultural, architectural and historic urban diversity. Orlando simply doesn't have enough of those qualities for my tastes. In Florida, Jax, Tampa and Miami do.

So if I were Jax, I'd focus on improving what I already have that makes me special as opposed to trying to out Disney Orlando or out South Beach Miami. Those are fights Jax will never win.

Not disagreeing with you, just giving some (tepid) defenses of Orlando. Most of it objectively sucks, but there are some things they've done that are worth paying attention to. It's a lot better in some ways than it was when I lived there 17 years ago.
I grew up 20 minutes from Disney. Central Florida in general has changed a lot since I went away to college in 1995. Jax has too. Overall the scale of growth has been different and it's something that Jax will never compete with. Yet I view Jax like a Portland. It will never be the size of San Francisco or Seattle. Yet it can carve out a niche by being better at being itself and building upon its unique quirks. This is happening now, more than ever since I moved here in 2003. So while I'm critical of certain things, I also have come to acknowledge the city's strong points. Same goes for Orlando. DT is much more lively today than it was back then. However, the area of overall pedestrian scale development and built environment is still limited...even compared to Jax.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on June 04, 2018, 12:56:50 PM
I'm not a Sarasota appoligist but hells bells - if it sucks so bad and has this level of development then how bad must Jax suck?

It sucks because it's boring, full of old people, is really hot and muggy and lacks much in the way of personality. That's not to say they've not done stuff with the place - it's just not my cup of tea.

For example - some people would say that Buffalo, NY has undergone a renaissance and has shaken off the many decades of deterioration and funk that plagued the city. You still couldn't pay me to live there, though.

I get it, there are places I don't want to live either...but just dismissing urban progress because "I wouldn't want to live there" is totally missing the point.  If Sarasota, with all its faults, is generating this kind of development then clearly someone in City Hall has identified the problem and are taking steps to rectify it.  We need to be holding the City here accountable for their lack of progress as it relates to walkable urbanism - not dismissing progress in other places. 

I don't think anyone is dismissing progress. How familiar are you with Sarasota? It's a rich white man's playground and has been for quite sometime. It has a market for what is being proposed. Jax currently doesn't. These are two places with completely different demographics. Other than personal preferences, both places have their positives and negatives.

Move DT Jax to the Intracoastal and all of our inner city, industry and jobs to Fernandina or St Augustine and we'd be Sarasota too.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: I-10east on June 04, 2018, 12:59:25 PM
It's good to see more diverse and even keeled opinions of Jax here vs the MJ of 3 years ago when everyone was like a Kerry-clone, and Jax could never do anything right no matter what; we suck, we suck, we suck was all that they said.

I'm fine with critical opinions of the city, but sometimes things that people say is downright ridiculous, in a ever-melancholy state of mind, and everywhere else like urban California with hordes of homeless and taxes is utopia.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 04, 2018, 01:21:54 PM
I want Jax to improve.  If that means calling a few strikes then so be it.  I'm not give Jax a participation trophy.  So anyhow, I think this horse has been beaten to death so back to the topic at hand.

New North American headquarters building in downtown Oklahoma City.  The company is relocating from midtown Atlanta.

https://newsok.com/article/5594981/new-details-emerge-on-headquarters-planned-for-automobile-alley-in-oklahoma-city

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w620-3b81e5447e2712af5b22ef1d66a19d2a.jpg)

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w620-7f80bf96336e257246eb0ac78d101914.jpg)
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Downtown Osprey on June 04, 2018, 01:41:07 PM
I could not agree with Lake's comments more. Jax will never be a SF, Atlanta etc. However, it can and should be comparable to Savannah, Charleston and Ashville. Cities that people my age (25-29) prefer to visit much more than say a Dallas or even Atlanta. They take great pride in their history and culture, and young people gravitate towards that. I (apologetically) visited Savannah for the first time last week and was blown away by how vibrant and happening their downtown was. There's no reason we can't have something similar given our historic neighborhoods and some of the most beautiful buildings downtown (many of which are in the process of being remodeled). 
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 04, 2018, 02:53:17 PM
West Village - Oklahoma City

CMSWillowbrook is transforming the Oklahoma City skyline. West Village is a 334-unit mixed-use urban development with residential, retail, dining and office space in the Film Row district of downtown Oklahoma City. The project consists of six structures spanning three city blocks. Two, five-story apartment buildings make up the largest percentage of housing. West Village includes a fifth-story clubhouse, a rooftop pool and a fitness center. A multistory cast-in-place “podium” parking garage and two precast parking garages more than six stories tall provide parking for the facility.

(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/528552e5e4b0b26086d2c59c/5aa014ad53450a19d235e990/5aa014ade4966b2fb9aa859d/1520440495882/Bldg+D+Clubhouse.jpg?format=1500w)
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 04, 2018, 04:01:10 PM
Strawberry Fields Master Development Plan

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma

GSB Inc. was hired to create the Master Development Plan for Strawberry Fields. The development spans from Shartel Avenue to Hudson Avenue between Oklahoma City Boulevard and 7th Street. The drafted plan conceptual total of 8.8 million SF includes 515,000 SF of retail space, 1.3 million SF of office space, 3.8 million SF of residential area, and 890,000 SF of hotel space as well as planned parking for 6,800 vehicles.

(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5498cce2e4b044170dcb783b/5818adcf9f745674442b31e4/593575033a041127f6cbf235/1496675597914/strawberry_c0100_final_v02-med.JPG?format=500w)

(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5498cce2e4b044170dcb783b/5818adcf9f745674442b31e4/5935751215cf7d7de76abcb9/1496675615363/strawberry_c0200_final_v02-med.JPG?format=500w)

(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5498cce2e4b044170dcb783b/5818adcf9f745674442b31e4/596fc140579fb3de2a8b944b/1500496199034/StrawberryFields_7-17.jpg?format=500w)
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 04, 2018, 04:10:42 PM
New Oklahoma City Convention Center

Fronting two blocks of S Robinson Avenue south of Chesapeake Energy Arena, the convention center will anchor a meeting, entertainment, transit and outdoor complex being developed at the intersection with the new Oklahoma City Boulevard.

• A 200,000-square-foot exhibit hall designed to be divided into four separate spaces.
• High-tech meeting rooms on three levels, totaling 45,000 square feet.
• A 30,000-square-foot, third-level ballroom. Glass doors opening to the outside will extend the ballroom to a balcony overlooking the park.

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w640-5e48b85a7268b5073d335edc33fbf3e1.jpg)
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Adam White on June 04, 2018, 04:54:28 PM
I'm not a Sarasota appoligist but hells bells - if it sucks so bad and has this level of development then how bad must Jax suck?

It sucks because it's boring, full of old people, is really hot and muggy and lacks much in the way of personality. That's not to say they've not done stuff with the place - it's just not my cup of tea.

For example - some people would say that Buffalo, NY has undergone a renaissance and has shaken off the many decades of deterioration and funk that plagued the city. You still couldn't pay me to live there, though.

I get it, there are places I don't want to live either...but just dismissing urban progress because "I wouldn't want to live there" is totally missing the point.  If Sarasota, with all its faults, is generating this kind of development then clearly someone in City Hall has identified the problem and are taking steps to rectify it.  We need to be holding the City here accountable for their lack of progress as it relates to walkable urbanism - not dismissing progress in other places.  **** man, Omaha has 84 downtown and downtown adjacent projects geared towards walkable urbanism going on or recently completed.  We have are thumbs up our *** with low income housing while looking at pretty pictures from Khan.

http://www.omaha.com/money/more-than-dozen-development-projects-that-are-changing-the-nebraska/collection_9c41b0da-e7d0-11e6-b97a-17f4708285ab.html

Sorry...can you show where I 'dismissed urban progress'? I simply stated I didn't like Sarasota. You're reading way to much into this.

You'll note: I was responding to comments by KenFSU, thelakelander and avonjax

Adam White: My parents moved to Sarasota in 1995. They love it. I, on the other hand, can't stand it. The downtown and the bits near the water are okay, but overall it's just really boring and lacks any personality. And it's always hot and muggy.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 04, 2018, 05:13:23 PM
Sorry Adam - that comment wasn't aimed directly at you.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Adam White on June 04, 2018, 06:03:07 PM
Sorry Adam - that comment wasn't aimed directly at you.

No worries.

For the record, I think Jax could - and should - do a lot more. I will say, however, that I was a bit impressed when I went back to visit in December. I don't get to visit too often and was surprised by how much better downtown and 5 Points looked. I think the city is making progress - it's just very, very slow and sometimes hard to notice. But it could be way better.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Tacachale on June 04, 2018, 06:11:45 PM
I want Jax to improve.  If that means calling a few strikes then so be it.  I'm not give Jax a participation trophy.  So anyhow, I think this horse has been beaten to death so back to the topic at hand.


Kerry, some of this reaction is because it's the kind of thing that folks who've lived in Jax a long time heard for literally decades. The people who say it often act like they're the first person to ever notice these criticisms, and dismiss positive news as inadequate, or based on boosterism. The reality is that this level of hypercritical negativity isn't any more realistic than the "everything is awesome" take. There are indeed a lot good things going on in Jax, including in the urban core, just like there are bad or disappointing things. The city looks a lot different than it did even 5 years ago, which wouldn't be happening if things were just at a perpetual standstill.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on June 04, 2018, 06:46:13 PM
While there's a lot Jax can improve upon, the city is changing. I think you notice it more when you leave and spend less time in town. Since I've been working in Central Florida, every time I'm back in town and get to explore a bit, the improvements and changes stand out more. There's a reason 11,000 people have moved into Jax over the last year. Yes, most of that is probably in the Southside/Town Center/Bartram Park area but there's also quite a few infill projects in and around the urban core. They just aren't requiring tower cranes for their construction.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 04, 2018, 07:33:41 PM
If suburban shopping centers float your boat then so be it.  My attention is focused on walkable urbanism in and around the core.  I couldn't care less what happens out on JTB.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on June 04, 2018, 08:21:17 PM
Imagine what Rosslyn and the core of Arlington, VA or Dadeland in South Florida would look like today if no one cared about them enough to extend the Metro/Metrorail and modify land use around their stations 30 years ago. Overall, the idea of healthy sustainable cities is what floats my boat. IMO, your sprawling suburb of today can be another viable walkable node in your community, connected to the core with transit, good vision, coordination and utilization of resources. Doing so also gives you the benefit of preserving rural and natural areas, while spending less on infrastructure....which gives you more money for other quality of life investments. Ignoring everything but the core and how these places work with or against each can backfire to give you everything you despise about Jax. 
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 04, 2018, 08:35:18 PM
If you are waiting for a rail connection between SJTC and downtown good luck with that.  Jax would need a much stronger urban core than it has now.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on June 04, 2018, 10:38:09 PM
Lol no, I'm not. I'm realistic. I don't believe you'll see AV vehicles flying up and down the Skyway, on regular urban streets or a new river crossing anytime soon either.  I also believe Jax needs a much stronger urban core than it does now. I've never mentioned that it didn't.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Captain Zissou on June 05, 2018, 09:38:06 AM
I want Jax to improve.  If that means calling a few strikes then so be it.  I'm not give Jax a participation trophy.  So anyhow, I think this horse has been beaten to death so back to the topic at hand.


Kerry, some of this reaction is because it's the kind of thing that folks who've lived in Jax a long time heard for literally decades. The people who say it often act like they're the first person to ever notice these criticisms, and dismiss positive news as inadequate, or based on boosterism. The reality is that this level of hypercritical negativity isn't any more realistic than the "everything is awesome" take. There are indeed a lot good things going on in Jax, including in the urban core, just like there are bad or disappointing things. The city looks a lot different than it did even 5 years ago, which wouldn't be happening if things were just at a perpetual standstill.

I lived at the Peninsula in 2009/2010.  My options for food and beverage within walking distance back then were Sake House, Ruth's Chris, Chart House, and Dos Gatos & Local's bar.  A number of times I walked across the main street bridge to try and find food for dinner, only to walk back an hour later empty handed and with an empty stomach. 

The downtown/southbank environment is much much better now.  Bearded Pig, V-Pizza, Panera, La Nop (it moved a couple blocks closer), Aardwolf, Sidecar, Super Food & Brew, BG has better evening hours, Kazu, Volstead, etc....

That may not seem like "home runs" to you, but for a downtown resident that is a world of difference. 
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 05, 2018, 04:44:51 PM
Oklahoma City Omni Hotel: $235 million

https://newsok.com/article/5578173/design-of-17-story-omni-hotel-unveiled

Quote
The 605-room hotel, along with a garage to be built by the city, is the last component yet to be seen by the public in the Core to Shore plan to transform a blighted swath of land between downtown and the Oklahoma River.

...

Rule said a three-story podium building that stretch the entire block will feature restaurants, a sports bar, coffee shop, outdoor dining and shopping facing Robinson Avenue and the future Oklahoma City Boulevard.
Quote

(https://localtvkfor.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/2018-01-05-omni-okc-sw-corner-rendering.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&strip=all)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTMx9ZQVAAAazeL.jpg)
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 05, 2018, 04:51:14 PM
Oklahoma City Scissortail Park

https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/projects/downtown-public-park

Quick facts
•Project budget: $132 million
•Construction: Under way on the north section with scheduled completion in 2019; South section scheduled completion in 2021.
•Size: 40-acre north section, 30-acre south section.
•Location: The north section of the park extends from the new Oklahoma City Boulevard south to Interstate 40, and from S Hudson Avenue east to S Robinson Avenue. The south section is bordered on the north by I-40, extending south to SW 10 between S Walker Avenue and Robinson, and to SW 15 between S Harvey Avenue and Robinson.


(https://www.okc.gov/Home/ShowImage?id=1449&t=635961606356330000)

(https://localtvkfor.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/scissortail.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&w=370&h=204&crop=1)
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 05, 2018, 05:55:47 PM
Oklahoma City: Santa Fe Station improvements to continue


Published:

A $2,287,250 contract to continue the work of transforming Oklahoma City's historic Santa Fe Station into an intermodal transit hub was approved Monday by the Oklahoma Transportation Commission. The contract is part of a $28.4 million project to renovate the downtown 1930s-era train station and convert it to a transit hub to serve passenger trains, a new streetcar system, city buses, a bicycle sharing service, taxis and ride-sharing services. The transit hub is located at 100 South E.K. Gaylord, between Sheridan and Reno avenues.

https://youtu.be/sD7fnjg1giA

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/lead630_blur-d1959abe515518509d2c515dff3572f4.jpg)

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960-4a2a34b93fcaf88881952b65eb0650b6.jpg)




Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Downtown Osprey on June 06, 2018, 09:41:21 AM
OKC seems to be having a lot of growth, good for them, but I would have no desire to live in a landlocked state like Oklahoma.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 06, 2018, 01:44:03 PM
Oklahoma City First National Center

https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/okc-landmark-first-national-center-faces-a-bright-future/Content?oid=2979744

Quck Facts:
$235 million renovation
145-room luxury hotel
200 apartments
high-end basement vault restaurant
bar and lounge with downtown views from the 31st floor 25,000 square feet of street front retail

(http://www.adgokc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/3-First-National-Center.jpg)

(http://www.adgokc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/2-First-National-Center.jpg)

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/81/a5/91/81a59191813bf5d9c932ae7d669fa56e.jpg)
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on June 06, 2018, 02:47:02 PM
Nice adaptive reuse project. Sounds like the Trio and Barnett.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Todd_Parker on June 06, 2018, 04:47:57 PM
Oklahoma City: Santa Fe Station improvements to continue


Published:

A $2,287,250 contract to continue the work of transforming Oklahoma City's historic Santa Fe Station into an intermodal transit hub was approved Monday by the Oklahoma Transportation Commission. The contract is part of a $28.4 million project to renovate the downtown 1930s-era train station and convert it to a transit hub to serve passenger trains, a new streetcar system, city buses, a bicycle sharing service, taxis and ride-sharing services. The transit hub is located at 100 South E.K. Gaylord, between Sheridan and Reno avenues.

https://youtu.be/sD7fnjg1giA

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/lead630_blur-d1959abe515518509d2c515dff3572f4.jpg)

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960-4a2a34b93fcaf88881952b65eb0650b6.jpg)

Exactly what people had been hoping the Prime Osborn would have become for the last 10 years. Imagine seeing people hop off the Brightline at Jax Terminal and then waiting in line for their autonomous vehicles to take them to the newly refurbished Landing!
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 07, 2018, 08:44:35 AM
Oklahoma City Streetcar

https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/projects/modern-streetcar-transit

2 routes
22 stations
4.6 miles
$131 million (built debt-free)

(https://www.okc.gov/Home/ShowImage?id=9388&t=636552395616200000)

(https://localtvkfor.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/promo342832805.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&w=1200)

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w620-c6eb9c3718bc37fe17116a629ebd3000.jpg)
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 07, 2018, 09:02:03 AM
Oklahoma City: Wheeler District (under construction)

150 acres
2000 housing units
mixed-use pedestrian oriented

https://www.wheelerdistrict.com/

Interview with developer
http://www.koco.com/article/new-neighborhood-in-okc-s-wheeler-district/14031364

(https://www.wheelerdistrict.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/street-sketch.jpg)

(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/311dee_4b3695ffafb54f1ab1c6077dba0a3fad~mv2.jpg)

(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5612e13ae4b0c37386e86b7e/56742caecbced6269950d022/56742dcacbced6269950daf8/1450454477450/Wheeler+Intimate+Green.jpg)
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: KenFSU on June 07, 2018, 09:16:20 AM
^Wow!

Almost five miles, 22 stations, for $133 million.

Hits the business district, Chesapeake Energy Arena, museums, a library, the law school, a park, the courthouse, etc.

Cool project.

Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: KenFSU on June 07, 2018, 09:31:48 AM
P.S. Question for someone more knowledgeable about the subject than me:

Am I missing some obvious logistical hurdle, or doesn't a streetcar line running from the sports complex, down Bay Street to the CBD, into Brooklyn, and possibly even into Riverside make a ton of sense?

It seems like a fairly straightforward route, it complements the existing Skyway route while making good on the promised extensions, and it would do ten times more to jumpstart infill development between Lot J/Shipyards and the CBD (and in Brooklyn) than JTA's clown car system.

A loop from Everbank to Brooklyn would be roughly the same mileage as the OKC line, and TIGER grants are available for projects like this. Wouldn't this be a pretty solid addition to our transportation network?
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: jaxnyc79 on June 07, 2018, 09:57:30 AM
P.S. Question for someone more knowledgeable about the subject than me:

Am I missing some obvious logistical hurdle, or doesn't a streetcar line running from the sports complex, down Bay Street to the CBD, into Brooklyn, and possibly even into Riverside make a ton of sense?

It seems like a fairly straightforward route, it complements the existing Skyway route while making good on the promised extensions, and it would do ten times more to jumpstart infill development between Lot J/Shipyards and the CBD (and in Brooklyn) than JTA's clown car system.

A loop from Everbank to Brooklyn would be roughly the same mileage as the OKC line, and TIGER grants are available for projects like this. Wouldn't this be a pretty solid addition to our transportation network?

Seems incredibly sensible to me, but is there a way to get the mayor to propose this as a capital improvement project in coordination with JTA?  I guess “build it and they will come” only applies to expressways amidst pine fields and not to the core?
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 07, 2018, 09:58:13 AM
Makes total sense to me, except for the Sports District part.  There simply isn't enough activity down there to justify it, although it would make getting to a Jumbo Shrimp game easier for me.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 07, 2018, 10:00:58 AM
^Wow!

Almost five miles, 22 stations, for $133 million.

Hits the business district, Chesapeake Energy Arena, museums, a library, the law school, a park, the courthouse, etc.

Cool project.

When you remove debt from the equation things get a lot cheaper.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: ProjectMaximus on June 07, 2018, 10:15:57 AM
^Wow!

Almost five miles, 22 stations, for $133 million.

Hits the business district, Chesapeake Energy Arena, museums, a library, the law school, a park, the courthouse, etc.

Cool project.

When you remove debt from the equation things get a lot cheaper.

Also seems to move along faster too! When is this expected to be operational?
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on June 07, 2018, 10:19:42 AM
The hurdle is JTA, not necessarily money or the mayor's office. They don't believe fixed transit like streetcars is the future. Time will tell if they are right and OKC, Charlotte and all these other places are wrong or if we're doing Skyway 2.0 all over again.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 07, 2018, 10:39:31 AM
^Wow!

Almost five miles, 22 stations, for $133 million.

Hits the business district, Chesapeake Energy Arena, museums, a library, the law school, a park, the courthouse, etc.

Cool project.

When you remove debt from the equation things get a lot cheaper.

Also seems to move along faster too! When is this expected to be operational?

They say they are schedule to start operation in December.  It is in testing now and only about half the streetcar vehicles have been delivered.  There are also still portions of the track under construction.  Expansion is already in the planning stage as well as implementing regional rail to some of Oklahoma City's 43 suburbs (primarily Edmond, Moore, Norman, Midwest City, Yukon, Mustang, and the airport).

Also, they made some route adjustments and it is now 4.9 miles and not 4.3 miles.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 07, 2018, 10:45:07 AM
The hurdle is JTA, not necessarily money or the mayor's office. They don't believe fixed transit like streetcars is the future. Time will tell if they are right and OKC, Charlotte and all these other places are wrong or if we're doing Skyway 2.0 all over again.

Skyway 2.0
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: KenFSU on June 07, 2018, 10:53:49 AM
The hurdle is JTA, not necessarily money or the mayor's office. They don't believe fixed transit like streetcars is the future. Time will tell if they are right and OKC, Charlotte and all these other places are wrong or if we're doing Skyway 2.0 all over again.

My question is this:

We know that multiple companies, including Uber, are aggressively pursuing driverless cabs. It's a future we've all seen coming since 2014. Why would we want to use our limited public transit funds to compete with and replicate what the private market is already doing? Especially when said private market is going to have economies of scale and competitive advantages that we can't possibly compete with (single-rider fares estimated at 35 cents a mile, with the ability to sell vehicles once they hit 50,000 miles).

10 years from now, why does a local, or a downtown worker, or a business traveler, or a tourist go through the trouble of using JTA's system when a cheaper, more familiar, universal alternative is likely going to be in place?

Why not let the private market tackle driverless cabs, and focus on something we actually might have a competitive advantage with (fixed transit with dedicated or prioritized right-of-way)?
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Tacachale on June 07, 2018, 10:55:10 AM
The hurdle is JTA, not necessarily money or the mayor's office. They don't believe fixed transit like streetcars is the future. Time will tell if they are right and OKC, Charlotte and all these other places are wrong or if we're doing Skyway 2.0 all over again.

Even if JTA is right about AV technology, they're still years away from a system that actually functions (or doesn't). These streetcar systems could be in place before the first AV pod ever serves a customer in Jacksonville.

Another issue is that there's no real knowledge of transit in the rest of the city government and private sector leadership, so they rely on JTA to drive the bus. That would actually be a good setup if JTA had a track record of making the right calls on public transit. Unfortunately, even if transit folks did start getting in leadership positions, the planning department, etc., we'll be all in on this AV thing before they could get us in the right direction.

That's not to say streetcars are the answer to every problem. They have issues of their own, especially in cities that build them primarily as a development tool rather than a transit solution, which is a lot of them.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: fieldafm on June 07, 2018, 11:02:50 AM
^Wow!

Almost five miles, 22 stations, for $133 million.

Hits the business district, Chesapeake Energy Arena, museums, a library, the law school, a park, the courthouse, etc.

Cool project.

When you remove debt from the equation things get a lot cheaper.

This is a little simplistic.

Technically, the streetcar and many other projects were bonded out for slightly below $1 billion... the bonds will be made whole over a 20 year period due to a voter-approved extension of the city's existing MAPS sales tax as well as an additional .25 increase in the sales tax.  The bonds and sales tax increase/extensions covered much more than just the streetcar (including public safety capital improvements, public works capital improvements, libraries, affordable housing and economic development set asides). The sales taxes are expected to raise about $1.5 billion over that same time period, which unless there is a shortfall (read recession, which is more likely than not) will cover principal and interest to service the debt.

Essentially this was OKC's version of Better Jacksonville version 3.0. They already passed a Better Jacksonville 1.0 and 2.0 plan. Our Better Jacksonville 2.0 was an extension of the existing sales tax to cover pension debt, no additional taxes were proposed... which meant no additional capital improvements were to be funded.  In Jax, we do have a dedicated funding source that could be earmarked towards transportation projects called the Mobility Fee. The new 5 year priority list for the Mobility Fee should be due out soon. I don't believe that any funds will be earmarked towards transit projects.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 07, 2018, 11:11:38 AM
The Streetcar in OKC did not use any bonds.  OKC does use bonds for road construction but the MAPS projects are all funded with existing cash collected one penny at a time in advance.  Not only does the City save on interest, but they invest what they already collected so it continues to grow while it is waiting to be spent.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Tacachale on June 07, 2018, 12:31:48 PM
The Streetcar in OKC did not use any bonds.  OKC does use bonds for road construction but the MAPS projects are all funded with existing cash collected one penny at a time in advance.  Not only does the City save on interest, but they invest what they already collected so it continues to grow while it is waiting to be spent.

I don't think that's the case. From what I've read, Mike is correct.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on June 07, 2018, 12:54:19 PM
I lived there for 6 years - they don't do bonds for MAPS projects.  The entire purpose of MAPS is to build public facilities without using debt.

https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/about-maps-3

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MAPS 3 is a capital improvements program in Oklahoma City that uses a one-cent, limited-term sales tax to pay for debt-free projects that improve our quality of life.

If a local politician even suggested paying back a bond with MAPS funds or using bonds to fund a MAPS project their political career would be over right then.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on July 02, 2018, 06:44:11 PM
Downtown Pensacola:

https://www.wkrg.com/news/local-news/35-million-dollar-development-for-downtown-pensacola-is-one-step-closer-to-becoming-reality_2017112907284447/867732114

https://www.pnj.com/story/money/business/2018/02/07/downtown-pensacola-townhomes-proposed-west-palafox-place/311252002/

https://www.gibbons-realty.com/downtown-pensacola-new-construction/

https://www.teambeck.com/35-story-mixed-use-project-approved-for-pensacolas-maritime-park/

Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: thelakelander on July 02, 2018, 07:16:10 PM
35 story tower in downtown Pensacola breaking ground in September 2017 and finishing in December 2018? You sure this isn't a pipe dream? Just look at the rendering. That tower must have just taken a cold shower!

(https://www.teambeck.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/rendering-1024x574-1.png)
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kiva on July 02, 2018, 07:44:35 PM

 Especially when said private market is going to have economies of scale and competitive advantages that we can't possibly compete with (single-rider fares estimated at 35 cents a mile, with the ability to sell vehicles once they hit 50,000 miles).

Sounds great. Where did you get the estimates from?
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: I-10east on July 03, 2018, 02:10:57 AM
Within Columbus, OH's metro, they are supposed to be getting a massive billion dollar plus amusement park/sports/entertainment complex. No doubt that the Columbus area in the fastest growing in the state, and one of the fastest growing in the Midwest.

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/06/28/billion-dollar-plus-amusement-park-planned-on-350.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7e6w9096Q
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: I-10east on July 03, 2018, 02:16:47 AM
^^^I'm not going lie as that massive project seems very 'pie in the sky' to say the least, but hopefully everything works out.
Title: Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
Post by: Kerry on July 03, 2018, 08:47:26 AM
35 story tower in downtown Pensacola breaking ground in September 2017 and finishing in December 2018? You sure this isn't a pipe dream? Just look at the rendering. That tower must have just taken a cold shower!

Guess the joke is on me - turns out that project was an April Fools Joke.

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If you have any questions or would like to inquire about leasing retail or office space, or would like to tell us that we successfully ‘got you’ with this April Fool’s joke, please don’t hesitate to give us a call at 850-477-7044.