The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: thelakelander on November 30, 2016, 02:54:52 PM

Title: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on November 30, 2016, 02:54:52 PM
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-1920-hart-moses-1960s.jpg)

Quote
Last year, Mayor Lenny Curry’s big ask from the Florida Legislature was support for his pension reform plan.
This year, he’s focused on knocking down and replacing a key piece of Downtown infrastructure.

Curry told the Duval Legislative Delegation today he wanted help seeking state funding to revamp the Hart Bridge ramp.

Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=548836
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Bill Hoff on November 30, 2016, 03:26:49 PM
In addition to Shipyards development, I believe this was on the Groundwork Jacksonville wish list, as well. Removing the ramps was thought to give an opprotunity for an ideal Springfield/Downtown greenway connection.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on November 30, 2016, 03:28:16 PM
Crap, this would be great for downtown development. The article misstates the reasons for doing this, however.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: aubureck on November 30, 2016, 03:37:21 PM
I have mixed feelings about this.  I agree they are eyesores and they are definitely aging infrastructure nearing the end of their functional lifespan.  However, because of all of the overland bridge construction this is how I get out of downtown effectively right now during the week.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: vicupstate on November 30, 2016, 03:38:55 PM
While we are discussing sinking hundreds of millions into the Stadium District, maybe it is time to seriously discuss demolishing the ugly-as-homemade-sin elevated Commodore Expressway.  Given the reduced number of workers DT compared to the past and all the money going into the area, maybe now is the time to demo and bring it down to ground level starting at the Eastern edge of Metro Park. 

It is and always will be a physical and mental divide between the River and everything else in the area. It is not getting any younger either.   

P.S. A plan to move the jail, even if long term, would be great too.       

Glad someone heard me.

This really is a 'must-do' in order for the Metro Park/Shipyards area to truly come into it's own. 
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Kerry on November 30, 2016, 03:59:39 PM
I never thought this would happen.  This is great news.  Next step - get rid of the one-way streets downtown.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: edjax on November 30, 2016, 04:04:38 PM
I have mixed feelings about this.  I agree they are eyesores and they are definitely aging infrastructure nearing the end of their functional lifespan.  However, because of all of the overland bridge construction this is how I get out of downtown effectively right now during the week.

I am sure by the time money is allotted for this project and it would begin the overland bridge would be completed. 
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on November 30, 2016, 04:17:12 PM
This is definitely a long-range project. The simplest option would be just removing it entirely and replacing with new ramps that connect directly at the southeast bend of Gator Bowl Blvd/Bay. It would be pretty painless, as traffic could just be re-routed up Bay once it's complete, before even worrying about demolition. We could improve connections on side streets to make up for the inevitable slowdowns in traffic.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: williamcolledge on November 30, 2016, 04:35:37 PM
Getting out of stadium events on the east side can take forever. If this happens I'd hope there would be consideration for the event traffic issues that currently exist.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on November 30, 2016, 04:40:15 PM
Getting out of stadium events on the east side can take forever. If this happens I'd hope there would be consideration for the event traffic issues that currently exist.

It probably wouldn't effect that. The eastside onramp for the bridge isn't part of that ramp system.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: blizz01 on November 30, 2016, 06:48:53 PM
So no more tailgating in the shade?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Kiva on November 30, 2016, 07:25:00 PM
Oh, wow. Who could have guessed. If the ramps are removed and traffic is diverted to the stadium I wonder who benefits? Yup, Shad Khan gave $100,000 to the Curry campaign. What a shock! http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2016-01-11/story/jaguars-owner-shad-khan-gives-curry-political-committee-100000-boost (http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2016-01-11/story/jaguars-owner-shad-khan-gives-curry-political-committee-100000-boost)
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on November 30, 2016, 07:35:31 PM
^Downtown would benefit from removing that eyesore as well.

Getting out of stadium events on the east side can take forever. If this happens I'd hope there would be consideration for the event traffic issues that currently exist.

It probably wouldn't effect that. The eastside onramp for the bridge isn't part of that ramp system.

It would be impacted because most stadium traffic heading across the Hart would not need to use those ramps anymore. They could access the Hart from the new ramp taking the expressway traffic to East Bay Street.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: carpnter on November 30, 2016, 08:07:43 PM
I'm sure that the people going to the downtown churches like the Hart bridge ramps on game days. You can get out of town a bit easier by crossing the Hart instead of the Matthews
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on November 30, 2016, 08:53:18 PM
They'll live. Losing the Embarcadero Freeway hasn't hurt San Francisco...

Before:
(http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/85792091.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oSf0iVcuqQw/UU8wg63-juI/AAAAAAAAAE4/rWB0tB58zxE/s1600/SanFranciscoEmbarcaderoFreeway.jpg)


After:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/4186754486_gmRWPZP-L.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/4186790679_xRNNVRr-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on November 30, 2016, 11:48:09 PM
^Love it.

Also, $50 million is the exact figure that Curry is seeking.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on December 01, 2016, 08:56:45 AM
I like it 8)

What will all of the riff raff do on the Friday before FL-GA if RV city is no more??? ::)
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: JBTripper on December 01, 2016, 08:57:58 AM
Oh, wow. Who could have guessed. If the ramps are removed and traffic is diverted to the stadium I wonder who benefits? Yup, Shad Khan gave $100,000 to the Curry campaign. What a shock! http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2016-01-11/story/jaguars-owner-shad-khan-gives-curry-political-committee-100000-boost (http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2016-01-11/story/jaguars-owner-shad-khan-gives-curry-political-committee-100000-boost)

Grrrrr if Shad Khan benefits, it must be bad! Eat the rich!

Do you honestly think traffic diverting to the stadium benefits the Jaguars and their owner in any way? How much drive-by patronage do you think the NFL gets? I'm picturing a family of four, driving across the Hart Bridge on a Sunday morning:

"Hey kids, look! An NFL stadium! What's say we we pull over and take in a quick game!" "But honey, we can't get off this elevated expressway until we are approximately one half-mile away from the parking lot!" "Oh well, nevermind."
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: vicupstate on December 01, 2016, 11:05:22 AM
Of course it benefits Khan. It dramatically improves the property he lease/controls. It makes his plans for a hotel/convention center work must better.

But the benefit is not just to him but the public at large (unlike a stadium swimming pool or practice facility), and the cost of eliminating the ramps is probably the same or less than repairs the elevated expressway will need.   
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on December 01, 2016, 11:20:59 AM
Of course it benefits Khan. It dramatically improves the property he lease/controls. It makes his plans for a hotel/convention center work must better.

But the benefit is not just to him but the public at large (unlike a stadium swimming pool or practice facility), and the cost of eliminating the ramps is probably the same or less than repairs the elevated expressway will need.   

Correct.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Adam White on December 01, 2016, 11:25:56 AM
Of course it benefits Khan. It dramatically improves the property he lease/controls. It makes his plans for a hotel/convention center work must better.

But the benefit is not just to him but the public at large (unlike a stadium swimming pool or practice facility), and the cost of eliminating the ramps is probably the same or less than repairs the elevated expressway will need.   

Yeah - just because it benefits Khan doesn't mean it doesn't benefit Jacksonville.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 01, 2016, 11:27:59 AM
Like the courthouse parking deck over the river, the cost to remove is most likely a lot less than the cost to eventually replace.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on December 01, 2016, 12:25:19 PM
No one has even mentioned how the elimination of the 4 feeder ramps west of A Phillip Randolph will benefit the eastern end of downtown.  The view out of the north side of the jail is going to be so much more pleasant!

Seriously though, I wonder what they will do with the land that those ramps are on?  It'd be great if they restored the original parcels and sold them off.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on December 01, 2016, 12:41:14 PM
No one has even mentioned how the elimination of the 4 feeder ramps west of A Phillip Randolph will benefit the eastern end of downtown.  The view out of the north side of the jail is going to be so much more pleasant!

Seriously though, I wonder what they will do with the land that those ramps are on?  It'd be great if they restored the original parcels and sold them off.

From what I can see, taking out all of the ramps would free up:

*An entire half-mile long, 4-lane (plus access road) wide strip of space running from Randolph to the bend in Gator Bowl Boulevard
*Most of a full block behind the police department on the SE corner of Liberty and Adams, now only used for ramps, some parking, and a single bail bond office
*The north half of the block between Washington, Monroe, and Catherine, which is now just a ramp and some trees
*The entire Duval Street streetfront on the block between Washington and Catherine
*The western lot behind Intuition Ale Works, now used for parking

I'm *really* glad we are looking into this now to plan for the future.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on December 01, 2016, 12:45:03 PM
Curry wants the project underway next year, per the Daily Record.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: lowlyplanner on December 01, 2016, 12:54:33 PM
I agree that this is a great idea - and much sooner than I would have anticipated.

I'm a little curious that there doesn't seem to be any DIA involvement - there's no quote from Aundra, and I don't think anything has been presented at a board meeting.

Doesn't make it less of a great idea, but it does give a clue about the City and the DIA are working together (or not).
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: finehoe on December 01, 2016, 01:33:02 PM
It'd be great if they restored the original parcels and sold them off.

Maybe giving the original owners first dibs.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on December 01, 2016, 01:38:57 PM
No one has even mentioned how the elimination of the 4 feeder ramps west of A Phillip Randolph will benefit the eastern end of downtown.  The view out of the north side of the jail is going to be so much more pleasant!

Seriously though, I wonder what they will do with the land that those ramps are on?  It'd be great if they restored the original parcels and sold them off.

From what I can see, taking out all of the ramps would free up:

*An entire half-mile long, 4-lane (plus access road) wide strip of space running from Randolph to the bend in Gator Bowl Boulevard
*Most of a full block behind the police department on the SE corner of Liberty and Adams, now only used for ramps, some parking, and a single bail bond office
*The north half of the block between Washington, Monroe, and Catherine, which is now just a ramp and some trees
*The entire Duval Street streetfront on the block between Washington and Catherine
*The western lot behind Intuition Ale Works, now used for parking

I'm *really* glad we are looking into this now to plan for the future.

Overall its a huge area that no one probably looks at seriously for redevelopment because of the ramps.  This has the potential to really morph into another major gateway from downtown into the stadium district.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on December 01, 2016, 01:45:22 PM
It'd be great if they restored the original parcels and sold them off.

Maybe giving the original owners first dibs.
 

Certainly for the owners that didn't get completely bought out and ended up with goofy lots that had the corners lopped off.  Does anyone know what the deal is with the parts that actually go over buildings, like Sulzbacher?

I'd be really concerned that the block bounded by Adams/Washington/Forsyth/Liberty would be given to the Sheriff's office. 
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 01, 2016, 01:58:18 PM
Much of that low lying land under those ramps is contaminated from its days as a railyard and an industrial waste dump. It also floods.  Get ready to break out the piggybank when it comes to cleaning that property up.

Quote
Usually, the Downtown Development Review Board evaluates proposals for apartment buildings, streetscape improvements and other major projects.

Sometimes, it’s just a parking lot — and unraveling a paper trail of rezoning that goes back more than 15 years.

That was the case Thursday when the board approved a surface parking lot at 601 E. Adams St., on the west side of Hogans Creek, between Catherine and Palmetto streets.

The owner, Duval County Land Trust, applied for exceptions to Downtown surface parking lot landscaping requirements.

It also sought from the board, acting as the planning commission for Downtown, authorization to use the property as a parking lot, which had not been obtained by the previous owner before it was purchased by the trust in a foreclosure sale.

Attorney Wyman Duggan, representing the owner, said the property has been used as a parking lot since at least 1977. He produced an aerial photograph from that year that showed numerous vehicles parked on the 7.42-acre site.

In 2001, the property was zoned as a Planned Unit Development, which allowed a commercial surface parking lot with 614 spaces. At the time, the property was leased to Central Parking and was a parking lot.

The property was rezoned in 2006 to Commercial Residential Office. That designation allows use as a parking lot only after an exception is approved by the city.

In 2010, the city enacted new regulations for surface parking lots Downtown that included landscape and streetscape standards.

One change was that existing parking lots, if left unimproved, would be deemed as meeting the standards until purchased by a new owner.

The trust bought the parking lot in November 2012.

Duggan said the owners want to conform to the standards and sought the landscaping exceptions due to environmental issues.

Decades ago, when East Bay Street was a maritime shipping district with docks, piers and warehouses, the property was used for disposal of hazardous waste.

The site was paved over to seal the contaminants and excavating the parking lot to plant trees and shrubs would not be advised, Duggan said.

“The whole site was used as an industrial waste dump for decades. We don’t want to break the cap,” he said.

Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=547551&searchtext=parking%20lot%20hart%20bridge%20ramps
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: williamcolledge on December 01, 2016, 04:10:27 PM
Is there any way to see an early proposal for the location/design of the Bay Street on-ramp? 
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on December 01, 2016, 04:30:16 PM
Good news although I will miss the views coming into the city from that direction. Be nice to see that entire area develop nicely.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on December 01, 2016, 04:46:42 PM
A.G. Gankarski from Florida Politics got a pic from the meeting. I can't read what it says, though.

(http://3o15h033zmpwracwx2i00rqx.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/IMG_8643-e1480532097403.jpg)

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/228086-jacksonville-wants-state-help-on-hart-expressway-ramp-mods
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on December 01, 2016, 05:01:08 PM
So the red highlighted part is what they will take down? That will open up that area considerably
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 01, 2016, 05:42:35 PM
Interesting. So the ramps over Hogans Creek would remain as a two-way elevated road and an elevated jogging trail (aka NYC High Line).
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on December 01, 2016, 06:09:03 PM
Not a fan of leaving those other ramps....
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 01, 2016, 06:20:15 PM
(http://3o15h033zmpwracwx2i00rqx.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/FullSizeRender-10-3500x1909.jpg)

Click on the link and you can get a much larger image:

http://3o15h033zmpwracwx2i00rqx.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/FullSizeRender-10-3500x1909.jpg
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: vicupstate on December 01, 2016, 06:32:40 PM
Not a fan of leaving those other ramps....

+1
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on December 01, 2016, 06:54:48 PM
Looking at the rendering, it's even worse.  They really think it's a good idea to waste all of that waterfront space for those ramps?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Steve on December 01, 2016, 06:59:20 PM
Not a fan of leaving those other ramps....

Agreed - it's like they're trying to do a NYC high line sort of thing, which I don't know that I agree with. It's an interesting concept, but the uses around there aren't really conducive to a high line atmosphere (residential/retail/etc). There isn't even the building fabric around it to encourage adaptive reuse in that regard.

I definitely don't think the two lane road is needed. Are they planning on turning Adams two way? As laid out, there would be next to no one using it going east as Adams is a westbound road, and I'm not sure how it's more efficient to use the west road either. Stadium exit strategy perhaps? That's the only thing I can come up with.

Maybe it was a way to cut cost? Otherwise, it looks like it's solely to get that part of the land for Shad Khan to create a stadium entertainment area. You'd have clear fro  Georgia Street to the L turn at Bay/Gator Bowl Blvd.

I like the merging into Bay Street from the Hart Bridge part, but I'd say do it right and get rid of all of the ramps west of APR as well. Then, restructure the reclaimed land on the block bounded by Liberty/Forsyth/Adams/Jail and see if you can work with Maxwell House to really connect the area - right now you sort of have two areas, Downtown and the Sports Complex, separated by Hogan's Creek. It would be great to join them together well and (save for the environmental issues) open it up for development.

Though, if they just did this it WOULD be a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: JaxAvondale on December 01, 2016, 07:12:34 PM
I actually like converting the ramp to a pedestrain walkway/bridge. People could eat downtown then walk over to the sports district for their show or sporting event.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Bill Hoff on December 01, 2016, 07:20:34 PM
Otherwise, it looks like it's solely to get that part of the land for Shad Khan to create a stadium entertainment area.

If it wasn't obvious enough already, yes.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: brainstormer on December 01, 2016, 07:43:40 PM
I don't understand the purpose in leaving the ramps on the western end. Why would someone walk out of the way up and down a ramp instead of just walking down Bay Street? Take down the ramps and then let's talk about improving connectivity between the urban core and the stadium district.

Now perhaps if there was a plan to create a real bike path that went from the stadium district along Hogan's Creek towards Springfield, I might give that some thought.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 01, 2016, 07:54:53 PM
They are probably there because the focus may not be from a holistic approach.  If all the focus is on Metropolitan Park, then the rest maybe an afterthought.  With that in mind, if the plan is to repurpose that section, they should scrap the road and see if it's worth being an elevated support platform for a Skyway extension to A. Philip Randolph. If so, all they'd need to do is figure out how to get it from Hogan to Liberty (6 blocks).
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on December 01, 2016, 08:09:49 PM
People could eat downtown then walk over to the sports district for their show or sporting event.

You can do that now without going out walking down some ramp park that would be taking you out of your way.  It would be super pleasant to walk on from may to October too.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on December 01, 2016, 08:15:41 PM
Maybe it was a way to cut cost? Otherwise, it looks like it's solely to get that part of the land for Shad Khan to create a stadium entertainment area.

Ding ding ding.  Curry already said he planned to beg for the Mo ey from the state.  If you're going to go to them for funding you might as we ask for $100M and do it all.  I'm sure FDOT wouldn't mind removing miles of sparsely used bridges from their inventory.  Or are these city maintained?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 01, 2016, 09:49:21 PM
^That's a FDOT maintained facility and I doubt they have money to laying around to tear it down or rebuild it within a year.  If Curry can pull it off with that type of timeline, I'll be the first to give him a pat on the back. Also, they can save more money by not constructing a new ramp on the waterfront for cars to get to Monroe and Duval. Just close it off to auto traffic completely, until the funds are there to remove the rest.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Jax-Nole on December 01, 2016, 10:44:20 PM
Can the rest even be removed? Those ramps either go over, or go very close to a number of buildings. I tried to search YouTube for bridge demolitions, and there wasn't a single example in the first 10 pages of a bridge being taken down that goes over buildings. Of the videos that I did watch, they all resulted in a ton of debris on the ground. I'm not entirely sure it is feasible to remove the rest of those ramps, at very least if they expect those buildings below to not have any damage. I am not a construction expert in any way, but I can't figure out how it could be done.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: FlaBoy on December 02, 2016, 12:22:24 AM
Can the rest even be removed? Those ramps either go over, or go very close to a number of buildings. I tried to search YouTube for bridge demolitions, and there wasn't a single example in the first 10 pages of a bridge being taken down that goes over buildings. Of the videos that I did watch, they all resulted in a ton of debris on the ground. I'm not entirely sure it is feasible to remove the rest of those ramps, at very least if they expect those buildings below to not have any damage. I am not a construction expert in any way, but I can't figure out how it could be done.

Very true. Had not thought of that but would make sense from their plan that they talked to some experts about that problem. Also, LOVE the idea of using the ramp for the Skyway or transit overall. Great idea Lake as always! Maybe a new write up on the idea?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on December 02, 2016, 07:16:54 AM
Can the rest even be removed? Those ramps either go over, or go very close to a number of buildings. I tried to search YouTube for bridge demolitions, and there wasn't a single example in the first 10 pages of a bridge being taken down that goes over buildings. Of the videos that I did watch, they all resulted in a ton of debris on the ground. I'm not entirely sure it is feasible to remove the rest of those ramps, at very least if they expect those buildings below to not have any damage. I am not a construction expert in any way, but I can't figure out how it could be done.

Basically the Sulzbacher center.  Clearly it wouldn't be easy, or cheap.  You'd pretty much have to dismantle the largest pieces possible with cranes while protecting the buildings below.  And at times they aren't occupied.

Sometimes things are hard, and to do them right isn't the easiest thing.  These structures will have to come down at some point.  Be it now or in 100 years, I don't know.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Steve on December 02, 2016, 08:36:31 AM
If you watched the dismantling of the original I-95 lanes as part of the Overland Bridge Project, most of it went down fast....except for the part over the roads as well as over the Skywalk from the JTA garage to Kings Avenue station.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on December 02, 2016, 01:16:25 PM
Not a fan of leaving those other ramps....

Agreed - it's like they're trying to do a NYC high line sort of thing, which I don't know that I agree with. It's an interesting concept, but the uses around there aren't really conducive to a high line atmosphere (residential/retail/etc). There isn't even the building fabric around it to encourage adaptive reuse in that regard.

Jacksonville has a very poor track record when attempting addition by subtraction, but just like the Coastline demo, I really do like the idea of removing those ramps. That said, Curry's proposal sure is strange.

An elevated path/park, overlooking the prison, the backside of Maxwell House, a bunch of surface lots, an adjacent two-way ramp, and 30 acres of contaminated brown fields?

It's an interesting idea, but to do it properly, you'd need to spend a lot of money. It's also something that would make such more sense if the area was already developed. As is, I worry that the remnants of an abandoned highway ramp just further blights an already blighted area and makes eventual development of the Shipyards even more cost-prohibitive.

Before Curry starts throwing around High Line comparisons, it's apples and yellow fever. The reason the High Line is such a wonderful space is because its so tightly woven into the existing urban fabric. Every hundred yards, there are new vistas overlooking interesting architecture, busy streets, the Hudson, etc. There are also numerous amenities, from benches and elevated overlooks, to cover from the sun, to retail. Not to mention the tremendous utility the space provides from getting to Point A to Point B without having to cross over insane intersections.

I'm actually in lower Manhattan on business.

Grabbed some videos of the High Line this morning to demonstrate what a wonderful job another city did with their elevated path.

Sorry in advance for the motion sickness these videos may cause  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbSVSWn1JIk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOn2M58VQ6w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIIWJqpC22E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtA_wet_Ods

Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Kerry on December 02, 2016, 01:18:09 PM
There is zero reason to keep the west end of those ramps.  They won't be used as pedestrian routes, bicycle paths, or skyway expansion.  If you think they can you don't understand walkability, bicycle riding, or mass transit.  The only reason they aren't shown as being removed is because they don't sit between Khanland and the water.  If they were they would be removed as well.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on December 02, 2016, 01:33:57 PM
Apparently the reason for leaving the west ramps is that they can't be taken down without astronomical cost. It would be a bigger project than removing and redeveloping the entire half mile along Bay. After looking at it I'm not sure it could even be done without closing the Sulzbacher Center temporarily.

The proposed plan is just adding a ramp connecting to "New Bay" and some minor changes like landscaping and restriping to create bike/ped lanes. It would be only a fraction of the cost of the whole project. And as not all car traffic coming over the bridge would be sent on those ramps, it will greatly reduce the current deterioration and safety issues.

I doubt all that many people will use it, but all things considered I'm cool with it. In the very least it will make it a bit prettier until funds are available later to take it down and redevelop the area.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: vicupstate on December 02, 2016, 01:49:17 PM
If at all possible, the entire thing should come down.  No one will  use the Western ramps for anything, IMO.  With them gone, the potential  for Hogan's Creek would be a lot more apparent. 
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Lunican on December 02, 2016, 02:15:47 PM
I'd rather they build no new ramps and tear down everything west of A.P. Randolph. It's not impossible to remove a bridge over a building, just disassemble it from the top down.

But then again, maybe it doesn't matter. What do we realistically expect to become of the land between A.P. Randolph and Liberty Street?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Kerry on December 02, 2016, 02:16:46 PM
To even be useable they would have to be brought back down to grade and tied into the street.  That would cost more than tearing them down in the first place.  They will just put Jersey barriers up on the west end of each ramp to keep cars off.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on December 02, 2016, 02:25:03 PM
If at all possible, the entire thing should come down.  No one will  use the Western ramps for anything, IMO.  With them gone, the potential  for Hogan's Creek would be a lot more apparent. 

Long term, I agree.

I'd rather they build no new ramps and tear down everything west of A.P. Randolph. It's not impossible to remove a bridge over a building, just disassemble it from the top down.

But then again, maybe it doesn't matter. What do we realistically expect to become of the land between A.P. Randolph and Liberty Street?
To even be useable they would have to be brought back down to grade and tied into the street.  That would cost more than tearing them down in the first place.  They will just put Jersey barriers up on the west end of each ramp to keep cars off.

That's the issue - tearing it down would cost *much* more than just building a ramp and some cosmetic additions.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Lunican on December 02, 2016, 02:29:33 PM
Leave the section over Sulzbacher. They can use it as a roof deck.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: finehoe on December 02, 2016, 02:35:37 PM
Jacksonville has a very poor track record when attempting addition by subtraction, but just like the Coastline demo, I really do like the idea of removing those ramps. That said, Curry's proposal sure is strange.

An elevated path/park, overlooking the prison, the backside of Maxwell House, a bunch of surface lots, an adjacent two-way ramp, and 30 acres of contaminated brown fields?

It's an interesting idea, but to do it properly, you'd need to spend a lot of money. It's also something that would make such more sense if the area was already developed. As is, I worry that the remnants of an abandoned highway ramp just further blights an already blighted area and makes eventual development of the Shipyards even more cost-prohibitive.

It makes no sense at all considering a significant part of the elevated path/park parallels Hogan Creek.  Why be above the creek when a grade-level path/park along the banks of the creek would be much nicer and more user-friendly.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: FlaBoy on December 02, 2016, 05:11:14 PM
Jacksonville has a very poor track record when attempting addition by subtraction, but just like the Coastline demo, I really do like the idea of removing those ramps. That said, Curry's proposal sure is strange.

An elevated path/park, overlooking the prison, the backside of Maxwell House, a bunch of surface lots, an adjacent two-way ramp, and 30 acres of contaminated brown fields?

It's an interesting idea, but to do it properly, you'd need to spend a lot of money. It's also something that would make such more sense if the area was already developed. As is, I worry that the remnants of an abandoned highway ramp just further blights an already blighted area and makes eventual development of the Shipyards even more cost-prohibitive.

It makes no sense at all considering a significant part of the elevated path/park parallels Hogan Creek.  Why be above the creek when a grade-level path/park along the banks of the creek would be much nicer and more user-friendly.

I think people have laid out several reasons in this thread already:

1) Environmental hazards under the concrete are prohibitive to development
2) Parts of the Overpass would be difficult or possible cost prohibitive to demolish as a result of the buildings below
3) The areas along the Creek are flood prone

One thing I am positive of is that they didn't just decide to keep that stretch for the hell of it. They have to have some good reasons probably revolving around costs.

I think the best use for one of those raised expressways is some sort of public transit use such as Skyway extension as Lake mentioned.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on December 02, 2016, 05:33:06 PM
Jacksonville has a very poor track record when attempting addition by subtraction, but just like the Coastline demo, I really do like the idea of removing those ramps. That said, Curry's proposal sure is strange.

An elevated path/park, overlooking the prison, the backside of Maxwell House, a bunch of surface lots, an adjacent two-way ramp, and 30 acres of contaminated brown fields?

It's an interesting idea, but to do it properly, you'd need to spend a lot of money. It's also something that would make such more sense if the area was already developed. As is, I worry that the remnants of an abandoned highway ramp just further blights an already blighted area and makes eventual development of the Shipyards even more cost-prohibitive.

It makes no sense at all considering a significant part of the elevated path/park parallels Hogan Creek.  Why be above the creek when a grade-level path/park along the banks of the creek would be much nicer and more user-friendly.

I think people have laid out several reasons in this thread already:

1) Environmental hazards under the concrete are prohibitive to development
2) Parts of the Overpass would be difficult or possible cost prohibitive to demolish as a result of the buildings below
3) The areas along the Creek are flood prone

One thing I am positive of is that they didn't just decide to keep that stretch for the hell of it. They have to have some good reasons probably revolving around costs.

I think the best use for one of those raised expressways is some sort of public transit use such as Skyway extension as Lake mentioned.

Yes, that's what I heard today: the cost and difficulty of demolishing that stretch would have been such that it would make whole project untenable right now. The proposed isn't ideal but it's a comparatively affordable way to keep it while moving ahead with redeveloping the eastern part. If we want in the future, we can demolish and redevelop it when the money's available.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 02, 2016, 06:13:40 PM
It wouldn't be the first example of an incremental approach taken on freeway removal. In Rochester, their downtown was completely surrounded by a loop freeway. Currently, they're in the process of a $21 million project to convert about half of it into a ground level boulevard.

http://www.cityofrochester.gov/InnerLoopEast/

(https://www.cnu.org/sites/default/files/Rochester_inner_loop.jpeg)

(http://www.cityofrochester.gov/assets/0/78/123/8589934937/8589935044/8589936037/2eee8e9d-fd74-47af-b6f9-cee2fc1c7570.jpg)
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on December 02, 2016, 06:54:00 PM
If they've gotta leave the damn ramps at least dump them out on E Adams or something.  It's not like anyone will use them anymore.  You think 25% capacity is bad now, wait until it's a ramp to nowhere.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: vicupstate on December 03, 2016, 10:31:21 AM
It will only cost more to demolish the West end ramps later, and the benefit won't be realized until they are gone.  Bite the bullet and do the whole thing now.

Couldn't buildings be built on the capped contaminated land?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on December 03, 2016, 12:06:26 PM
It will only cost more to demolish the West end ramps later, and the benefit won't be realized until they are gone.  Bite the bullet and do the whole thing now.

Couldn't buildings be built on the capped contaminated land?

Lol. It will cost a lot more if we wait until there's money for the whole project. The money is coming from the state, and the Duval delegation is almost entirely newbies. Getting $50 million for the east section is reasonable; getting $100 million or whatever for the whole thing is another story.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Kerry on December 03, 2016, 10:04:59 PM
The $50 million probably just isn't for demo.  There is going to have to be some rework where it ties into the bridge which I am sure as a significant cost.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 03, 2016, 10:11:27 PM
^You can see that proposed work in this link:

http://3o15h033zmpwracwx2i00rqx.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/FullSizeRender-10-3500x1909.jpg
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on December 03, 2016, 10:23:54 PM
 I really hope they can get it done that whole area would look totally different when complete I just hope the funds are available and everything works out great for the city the Jaguars and the public
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on December 04, 2016, 01:46:24 AM
A couple of questions:

1) If the ramps are knocked down, I wonder if that stadium parking lot to the left of the new Daily's Place and north of Met Park could be a possible target for cleanup-free development.

(https://s14.postimg.org/4jq0ldhz5/Capture.jpg)

2) What's the deal with the riverfront property to the right of Met Park? Who owns it? Is it actively used for something? Is it contaminated?

3) It seems like we're getting some weirdly mixed signals in the last couple of weeks. On one hand, removing the ramps clearly opens up Met Park for the development that Shad Khan, Mark Lamping, and Curry have been openly discussing for the better part of the last year. But on the other hand, we're also re-opening the RFP for the Shipyards property. If someone bites on the Shipyards (and lord knows, the city's estimated cleanup cost of "who the fuck knows" sure must make the offer enticing), how do you pull off a Met Park development in the absence of that in-kind land to swap for it?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: brucef58 on December 04, 2016, 07:14:39 AM
This is actually a good idea.  The reason for state funding is of course this is a state highway.  It is possible that some funding through FDOT will become available as there is a plan for a trillion dollar infrastructure investment from the new administration.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 04, 2016, 08:21:59 AM
A couple of questions:

1) If the ramps are knocked down, I wonder if that stadium parking lot to the left of the new Daily's Place and north of Met Park could be a possible target for cleanup-free development.

I don't know if it's contaminated or not, but it could possibly be used for development regardless of what happens with the viaduct.

Quote
2) What's the deal with the riverfront property to the right of Met Park? Who owns it? Is it actively used for something? Is it contaminated?

That's the Manson Construction Company's Jacksonville yard.  Mason is a Seattle-based marine construction and dredging company that was established in 1905. The Jax yard is their only Atlantic Coast location. All the barges, tugboats, cranes, etc. you see in the image, belongs to them.

http://www.mansonconstruction.com/

Quote
3) It seems like we're getting some weirdly mixed signals in the last couple of weeks. On one hand, removing the ramps clearly opens up Met Park for the development that Shad Khan, Mark Lamping, and Curry have been openly discussing for the better part of the last year. But on the other hand, we're also re-opening the RFP for the Shipyards property. If someone bites on the Shipyards (and lord knows, the city's estimated cleanup cost of "who the fuck knows" sure must make the offer enticing), how do you pull off a Met Park development in the absence of that in-kind land to swap for it?

The number of responses will most likely depend on how the RFP is written.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Yumbomb on December 06, 2016, 08:44:35 PM
By leaving the western ramps in place it looks like east - west streets, East of Ocean at least might remain one way ?

Can the Jacksonville Fair in some form operate year round across from Maxwellalong the more highly visible riverfront ?
Has this been discussed ?
If so, please pardon  my inability to find a thread on such
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on December 06, 2016, 09:25:20 PM
year round, why? would that work, I think people look forward to the fair in OCT, I know I did
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on December 12, 2016, 08:59:47 AM
Get in line, says the FDOT:

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/12/09/fdot-said-it-will-work-with-planning-organization.html

Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Snufflee on December 12, 2016, 09:12:40 AM
Get in line, says the FDOT:

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/12/09/fdot-said-it-will-work-with-planning-organization.html

aka: Nothing will get done.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on December 12, 2016, 09:28:21 AM
Get in line, says the FDOT:

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/12/09/fdot-said-it-will-work-with-planning-organization.html

aka: Nothing will get done.

aka Development want ≠ safety need.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on December 12, 2016, 09:49:08 AM
Get in line, says the FDOT:

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/12/09/fdot-said-it-will-work-with-planning-organization.html

aka: Nothing will get done.

aka Development want ≠ safety need.

aka FDOT will continue to prioritize more expensive and unnecessary projects over downtown.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 12, 2016, 11:39:02 AM
It's not FDOT's responsibility to magically come up with  $50 million to move a structurally sound highway for local development desires. That's not the way funding works, so no surprise or disappointment here. All this means is that there is a process to follow if you expect them to fund it.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: RattlerGator on December 12, 2016, 07:39:58 PM
FDOT will likely not be driving the train on this. The Legislature and the Trump Administration will likely have them singing a different tune soon.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 12, 2016, 07:50:49 PM
Lol, if you think FDOT is going to pay for it within a year, you better believe they'll be in the front of the train.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on December 12, 2016, 08:04:45 PM
The (Florida) Legislature is supposed to be working on the funding, and our delagation is behind it. But they are almost all newbies and won't be in any leadership positions. The main issue will be identifying the money; the next issue will be FDOT actually getting on the ball with it if the money is found. And no, the President of the United States isn't going to weigh in on a state issue affecting one bridge in one city.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: vicupstate on December 13, 2016, 05:49:04 AM
If an Infrastructure bill gets passed, which is a very big IF, that would at least provide a pot of money to do this project. more likely,  it would allow a higher priority project to get funded and thereby be removed as an competitor for funding.  If the engineering work is already done, that would increasing the chances of something happening sooner rather than later.  Regardless, until Curry or someone has some big chips to play, I wouldn't expect this to move forward  in the next year or two.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 13, 2016, 05:59:43 AM
Another option is for Jacksonville to take control of its own destiny and toss in some local money upfront to get it done faster. After all, I'd assume, for this to really become a gateway, it's got to be more than just tearing the bridge down. Bay could use some enhancement itself, if converted into a street level boulevard.

Say goodbye to elevated stretch of Bonaventure Expressway
http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/say-goodbye-to-elevated-stretch-of-bonaventure-expressway

(http://wpmedia.montrealgazette.com/2016/07/montreal-que-april-10-2012-an-aerial-cityscape-view-of.jpeg?quality=55&strip=all)

(http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.2966870.1467220921!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.jpg)

(http://wpmedia.montrealgazette.com/2016/07/a-10-metre-tall-sculpture-by-spanish-artist-jaume-plensa-is.jpeg?quality=55&strip=all)
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: finehoe on December 13, 2016, 08:12:21 AM
^^ A boulevard similar to that would be a fantastic gateway to downtown!
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on December 13, 2016, 08:16:51 AM
Yeah, for sure.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: jaxjags on December 13, 2016, 09:42:53 AM
When Riverside was done through Brooklyn, it should have been closer to this. Remember everyone in DOT and city was calling it the gateway to DT.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: edjax on December 13, 2016, 03:31:19 PM
The article I. T-U this morning provided more info. I believe only 9 mil is for taking it down. Rest is for enhancement of Bay St and building new ramp to Hart and new ramp to the portion that would be left and adding pedestrian and bike lanes, etc to the remaining portion not to be taken down.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: RattlerGator on December 15, 2016, 07:44:11 AM
And no, the President of the United States isn't going to weigh in on a state issue affecting one bridge in one city.
We'll see about that, Taca. The Trump Administration is not limited to him making pronouncements from on high. Ever heard of the USDOT? Or the Federal Highway Administration?

Hmmmmm . . . The FHWA’s role in the Federal-aid Highway Program is to oversee federal funds used for constructing and maintaining the National Highway System (primarily Interstate Highways, U.S. Routes and most State Routes).

And what's this: The Isaiah David Hart Bridge is a truss bridge that spans the St. Johns River in Jacksonville, Florida. It carries U.S. Route 1 Alternate (US 1 Alt.) and State Road 228 (SR 228).

So, we shall see Taca. I suspect there are a bunch of people in FDOT and USDOT who have no clue what will and won't be on the table . . . soon. My suspicion is the Trump Administration is about to teach Obama acolytes what a shovel-ready project is and how it benefits average American citizens and not a select few. That's just me. YMMV.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on March 10, 2018, 02:12:24 PM
Looks like Curry's lobbying paid off.

$12.5 million in the state's 2018-2019 budget to begin demolition of the Hart Bridge.

Specifically, the $12.5 million would cover demolition of the section separating the sports complex from Memorial Park.

If the state legislature approves the overall budget on Sunday, we're on our way to getting the job started.

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180310/state-budget-has-money-for-river-keystone-lakes-and-bridge-project
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on March 10, 2018, 02:42:22 PM
It will be roughly a 1/4 of the total amount needed for the project, assuming Scott doesn't veto. Any idea on the timeline to see if the $25 million in federal money is granted?

Btw, to bring up the U2C issue again and the need to line up technical information and funding, there needs to be coordination between these projects. Curry appears to be moving a faster pace than JTA. However, if he's securing money to rip down the ramps and reconstruct the street below, it creates an opportunity for dedicated lanes/ROW to be built into Curry's project as a part of the $50 million he's trying to secure.  If there is no coordination, then we'll get a new corridor not designed for whatever JTA is trying to figure out and when they do figure it out, we'll be either running the thing in shared lanes (limiting transit efficiency) or paying millions to reconfigure a recently completed project.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on March 10, 2018, 03:20:15 PM
^The $12.5 million in state money is contingent upon a $12.5 million match from the city. Curry will be back in DC this week lobbying for the remaining $25 million via federal Rebuilding America grant. Applications were due in November, so we've got to be getting close to a decision.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on March 12, 2018, 01:37:29 PM
Approved by the state legislator last night.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on March 16, 2018, 05:49:56 PM
Does the plan still include making Gator Bowl Blvd. six lanes?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on March 16, 2018, 05:56:24 PM
If a PD&E is needed, how many years are we looking at?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on March 16, 2018, 07:04:22 PM
I'm guessing the PD&E is the $250k study that the FDOT agreed to fund back in February. Since then, the state agreed to provide $12.5 million for actual construction.

http://www.jacksonville.com/metro/news/2017-02-24/state-agrees-250000-study-demolishing-part-hart-bridge-ramps
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on March 16, 2018, 09:46:59 PM
I suspect that a PD&E may cost a lot more than $250k
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on March 16, 2018, 10:37:14 PM
There may be environmental issues with removing the Hart bridge piers, and reconstructing GB Blvd.  Probably lots of nasty stuff in the ground.  Nasty stuff that wasn't considered in the 1960s when the Hart was built.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on March 17, 2018, 12:33:13 AM
That makes a lot of sense. All of that area was heavy industry for at least 50 years before the Hart Bridge ramps were built.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: MusicMan on March 17, 2018, 09:30:53 AM
PD and E?  Please 'splain it for the rest of us.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on March 17, 2018, 10:43:50 AM
Project Development and Environmental Study - where engineers do the preliminary engineering needed to determine the environmental impacts of the proposed project. Any environmental issues found must either be avoided, minimized, or mitigated. For more than you want to know about PD&E, I present the FDOT PD&E Manual. http://www.fdot.gov/environment/pubs/pdeman/pdeman1.shtm
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on March 17, 2018, 11:36:35 AM
Thank you Charles, I was going to ask the same question.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: MusicMan on March 17, 2018, 04:48:37 PM
Environmental issues? In  Jacksonville? Really? :P
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Steve on March 19, 2018, 01:39:33 PM
There may be environmental issues with removing the Hart bridge piers, and reconstructing GB Blvd.  Probably lots of nasty stuff in the ground.  Nasty stuff that wasn't considered in the 1960s when the Hart was built.

They seem to be allowed to pave over dirty land. Exhibit A: Lot J.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on March 19, 2018, 02:30:43 PM
Removing the piers will most likely require excavation; unless they cut them  off just below the surface. But, installing new drainage, for the new 6-lane GB Blvd. wull require digging. However, new pipes were buried between Daily's Place and the FCN retention pond, so it can be done.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on March 29, 2018, 01:08:48 PM
This is moving along a lot faster than I thought it would.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-takes-steps-to-remove-hart-bridge-expressway
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on March 29, 2018, 01:34:14 PM
It's moving but it doesn't sound like actual demolition is happening within 12 months.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on March 29, 2018, 02:05:07 PM
It's moving but it doesn't sound like actual demolition is happening within 12 months.

As someone who relies on the Hart Bridge for his daily commute, I hope they take their time :D

Can't even imagine what a nightmare it'll be during construction.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on March 29, 2018, 02:05:46 PM
The firm I work for was recently selected to be a part of the process on the design of this whole roadway project. I have not been privy to the schedule or many proposed details, other than the architectural site plans which Shad Khan has proposed. That said, whenever I find out anything regarding this project I'll be sure to update with my findings. I presume it will be a Design-Build project to accelerate construction, but of course the design still has to be drafted and subsequently bid upon, 100% designed, and then of course constructed, so we're still a ways from any publicly-visible action.

Awesome, looking forward to it!

P.S. Definitely Design-Build.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on March 29, 2018, 02:19:18 PM
The big question I have is if a PD&E is needed and how long that study will take? I don't see any demolition taking place without good understanding of the hidden environmental factors from all that former industrial land possibly being contaminated. Can't just pull up those piers if doing so exposes something pretty nasty.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on March 29, 2018, 02:47:58 PM
jax-hwy-engineer, is Gator Bowl Blvd. still shown as a 6-lane road in the plans you've seen?  My understanding is that 6 lanes are needed to handle the traffic. If memory serves, the Khan plan includes a pedestrian bridge between the Metro Park development and the stadium/ Daily's/ Lot J development, so a six (7 with left-turn lane?) lane road is less of an issue for pedestrians. 
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: TimmyB on March 29, 2018, 05:29:06 PM
...though you might be surprised the level of traffic that can be conveyed effectively with some smart lane and signal timing management.

I've only lived here six months and I've found that these simply do not exist in this city.  Traffic here is an absolute pain-in-the-ass, completely self-inflicted by little vision and a devotion to 1970's-era tech.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: TimmyB on March 30, 2018, 09:38:59 AM

I've only lived here six months and I've found that these simply do not exist in this city.  Traffic here is an absolute pain-in-the-ass, completely self-inflicted by little vision and a devotion to 1970's-era tech.

Yes, unfortunately it's true. State & Union Streets used to flow perfectly, but they modified the signals in the latest resurfacing project I think, and now it's nowhere near as fast.

To me, Atlantic Blvd is the worst nightmare in the city, other than the obvious choke points, primarily near freeway exits.

That said, though, you should try driving in Orlando! Or Atlanta! Jax isn't so bad, but of course as with everything, lots of room to improve.
[/quote]

I've been to Atlanta dozens of times.  They also have six times our population, so THAT traffic is to be understood.  Ours, on the other hand, is manageable.  But, we don't.

Sadly, I live on Atlantic.  <<sigh>>
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on March 30, 2018, 11:31:12 AM
I'd argue State and Union should be slower. They rip through the core of the city in an area with decent pedestrian movement.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: I-10east on March 30, 2018, 01:02:24 PM
^^^If you wanna make those streets slower, just ruin the flowing sequence of the lights by having one red light in front of three green lights, ie everywhere in Jax except State and Union. It wont be popular to most though LOL. 
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 30, 2018, 09:51:09 PM
It wont be popular to most though LOL.

By most you mean commuters, and they'll just find another way.

That's one of the issues with this city is that most of the traffic patterns/street designs are catered around making life easier for those who have no intention of stopping anyhow rather than catering to the businesses and residents that live in the area who would benefit the most.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on April 03, 2018, 08:39:22 PM
A good shot of the sports district when it was still industrial. Here you can see heavy industry on both of the Hart Bridge viaduct.

(https://www.floridamemory.com/fpc/commerce/K011534.jpg)
https://www.floridamemory.com/items/show/330649
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: jax_hwy_engineer on April 04, 2018, 01:06:28 PM
Cool shot, thanks for sharing. It never even crossed my mind that the stadium/entertainment district is only a relatively new portion of the city, that certainly explains the implementation of an overland viaduct in the first place.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: jax_hwy_engineer on April 05, 2018, 02:04:36 PM
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180404/hart-bridge-ramp-demolition-project-named-in-watchdogs-budget-turkey-report

Watchdog calling the project a "turkey" is certainly new to me!
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on April 05, 2018, 02:44:46 PM
The worst part about this to me will be the ramps to nowhere after this is complete.  If you're going to take it down take it down.  Once the viaduct to the bridge is gone those ramps become useless.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Steve on April 05, 2018, 03:24:57 PM
The worst part about this to me will be the ramps to nowhere after this is complete.  If you're going to take it down take it down.  Once the viaduct to the bridge is gone those ramps become useless.

I agree-I can’t figure this one out.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: vicupstate on April 05, 2018, 04:14:36 PM
The worst part about this to me will be the ramps to nowhere after this is complete.  If you're going to take it down take it down.  Once the viaduct to the bridge is gone those ramps become useless.

I agree. I bet the real reason to not tear the whole thing down is just to lower the cost.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on April 05, 2018, 04:32:42 PM
The worst part about this to me will be the ramps to nowhere after this is complete.  If you're going to take it down take it down.  Once the viaduct to the bridge is gone those ramps become useless.

I agree. I bet the real reason to not tear the whole thing down is just to lower the cost.

If I recall correctly, removing the parts of the ramps that go over buildings would be prohibitively expensive. Ultimately, they should go, however.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on April 05, 2018, 07:36:23 PM
The worst part about this to me will be the ramps to nowhere after this is complete.  If you're going to take it down take it down.  Once the viaduct to the bridge is gone those ramps become useless.

I agree. I bet the real reason to not tear the whole thing down is just to lower the cost.

If I recall correctly, removing the parts of the ramps that go over buildings would be prohibitively expensive. Ultimately, they should go, however.

Yeah, it's Sulzbacher that's the problem.   Fine, cut them off over Sulzbacher and leave them as a shady monument to the 60s if that's the problem.  To leave them running across Bay Street and wasting money on that stupid spiral is assinine.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on April 05, 2018, 08:16:15 PM
Did the plan change from converting the part behind the jail into an elevated linear park?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on April 05, 2018, 08:31:04 PM
^Nope.

I think it's a great plan. Turn a liability into an asset, at a fraction of the cost. Elevated linear parks are the new hotness thanks in large part to the Highline. Chicago, Philly, Boston, etc.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on April 05, 2018, 10:50:07 PM
The Chicago 606:

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/2sjzUFqTjg4A9XoOHFxXuIyyWXU=/0x32:1000x782/920x613/filters:focal(0x32:1000x782):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/51287405/bloomindagle-606-trail.0.0.png)

Rail Park in Philadelphia:

(https://railpark-j2made.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2016/10/130711_SPV5_-1400x640.jpg)

(https://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2012/04/Reading-Viaduct-Bryan-Hanes-Studio-1.jpg)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/05/29/article-0-1E4F121100000578-803_634x424.jpg)

Highway ramps to botanical gardens in Seoul, South Korea:

(https://cdnimd.worldarchitecture.org/extuploadc/052_skygarden_seoul_ossip.jpg)

Assuming that some of these projects that we're talking about come to fruition, an elevated, green, linear park that would stretch from the proposed site of the new convention center nearly down to the entertainment complex the Jags are planning would be amazing. Sure, it would overlook the prison, but it would also overlook the St. Johns River, and the proposed new Veterans Park (in effect, becoming an extension of the park), and the USS Adams, and the Arena and Baseball Grounds, and Berkman I and II, and Maxwell House, and Hogans Creek, with views across the river to the District.

(https://snag.gy/x4oGjg.jpg)

Using Rail Park in Philly as an example, the cost to transform the blighted rail line into an urban linear park was $10 million. The cost to demolish it would have cost over $50 million. Like I said, turn an asset into a liability.

What conventioneer wouldn't want to stroll to the sports complex via a vibrant linear park, filled with local art and amenities. And who leaving a baseball game wouldn't want to take a stroll through the elevated park to grab dinner or a drink in the urban core.

Love the idea.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: jaxjaguar on April 05, 2018, 11:12:46 PM
For the 4 years I lived downtown those few blocks between Liberty and Palmetto are one of the sketchier areas downtown. I'd gladly take the elevated pathway to avoid all of the bail bonds, hobos, prison and shelters in that area. Once you get past Palmetto it's not as bad, but you wouldn't catch me walking in those block between Liberty and Palmetto by myself haha. I used to ride my bike through there as quickly as possible whenever I was exploring.

Also, I understand why the prison is downtown (mostly used for transfers), but man it'd be so much less of an eyesore if it was North a couple of blocks. The spot I'm talking about is where the old prison / that huge empty parking lot that always fills up with water on church street is. I honestly believe people wouldn't make as much fuss about it if it was there / it wouldn't have hampered development down Bay street. It's just impossible to miss where it is and that land could've been put to much, much better use to extend the elbow / build more residential to connect with the Berkman Buildings.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: vicupstate on April 06, 2018, 08:18:14 AM
If they would indeed turn it into a elevated park, i could get behind it. That wasn't what I got from the description of it. It sounded like it was just going to convert from cars use to peds. 
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on April 06, 2018, 08:41:18 AM
Ken, I like your optimism.   ;D


IMO those ramps will be nothing but a forgotten afterthought.  The current administration could care less about what happens to them as long as the part over the sports complex comes down.  No one is going to leave the proposed convention center to walk those ramps and take in the wonderful views of the jail, homeless shelter, and surface lots behind Maxwell house when they can just walk straight down Bay St.  Plus, who is going to maintain and activate this park?  There's your doom and gloom for the day.

And yes, the current plan keeps half of it open for vehicular traffic and the other half converted to pedestrain.  Fine, make it a linear park, whatever, but just close it down to cars and tear it down across Bay St.  Drop it down behind intuition with a pedestrian ramp and call it a day.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on April 06, 2018, 12:07:19 PM
Ken, I like your optimism.   ;D

Thanks friend!!!

And I agree.

I hate the idea of keeping the vehicular portion open.

Hate even more how the last set of Shipyards renderings had vehicular ramps included as part of the Veterans Park.

(http://www.jax-cdn.com/sites/default/files/styles/slideshow__640x360/public/field/image/1533665_web1_VeteransPark-cropped.jpg)
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on April 06, 2018, 12:48:04 PM
What a great use of prime waterfront real estate!
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 25, 2018, 08:09:00 PM
^Great thanks for that update!!  :)
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on April 25, 2018, 10:25:04 PM
Exciting update! Concepts seem to show 3 lanes each direction on the surface road, shared use (bike + ped) path on the river-side and the existing sidewalk on the stadium-side. Some of the ramps will be used as they are for vehicular traffic, but at least one of them is proposed to be a bike/ped overpass from Adams&Liberty to Adams&Monroe. A short hop, but an elevated bike/ped path nonetheless.
Right, 6 lanes needed to handle the traffic.
I am confused by the bike/ped overpass, since Adams and Monroe are parallel.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on April 26, 2018, 05:31:53 AM
Any dedicated lanes for the Skyway or coordination with JTA on the design?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on April 26, 2018, 09:08:49 AM
I am confused by the bike/ped overpass, since Adams and Monroe are parallel.

It's an excuse to kick the can down the road for removing those ramps.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on April 26, 2018, 09:12:23 AM
Any dedicated lanes for the Skyway or coordination with JTA on the design?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/1PgPvWLfXGkCY/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on April 26, 2018, 04:09:21 PM
There's almost no way they'd extend the skyway to the stadium unless they had a LOT of money to drop. That's a 1.6 mile extension.

Any chance that two of those lanes might end up dedicated Skyway, like we saw in JTA's presentation?

(http://r2.masstransitmag.com/files/base/MASS/image/2018/01/16x9/640x360/U2C_Bay_Street_Rendering.5a5cfe45ace0d.jpg)
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: carpnter on April 28, 2018, 01:49:22 PM
One thing to keep in mind, if the ramps get removed there will be no closing of Bay St./Gator Bowl Blvd on a weekday like they did yesterday to get ready for Rockville.  You cannot push all of that traffic over to Union St and not have traffic backups and pissed off commuters.   So if they are going to remove the ramps they had better plan on putting elevated crosswalks in so people can get downtown.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: bl8jaxnative on April 28, 2018, 01:54:09 PM
I hope the city in the end elects to keep some amount of elevated freeways.  In fact, better connecting 115 with US 1 could help with traffic.  Already when there are events over there, traffic backs up along union and beaver coming from the west.  Ideally we could get more of those people onto the west side of downtown without them using downtown streets.  It's less efficient and leads to more localized congestion and localized pollutants.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on June 20, 2018, 05:23:37 PM
The feds turned down Curry's request for $25 million, leaving the project only halfway funded.

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180620/citys-bid-for-hart-bridge-demolition-money-falls-flat
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Kerry on June 20, 2018, 06:00:54 PM
Surely a $2.5 billion project won't be held up by $25 million.  To bad we can't use the bed tax. ;)
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Kiva on June 20, 2018, 06:45:54 PM
Surely a $2.5 billion project won't be held up by $25 million.  To bad we can't use the bed tax. ;)
I'm sure if Lenny Curry could find a way to do that he would!
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Kiva on June 20, 2018, 08:33:14 PM
Oh, wait. Lenny has magically found millions of city dollars lying around. How convenient! https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/06/20/mayor-hart-bridge-ramp-project-will-proceed.html (https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/06/20/mayor-hart-bridge-ramp-project-will-proceed.html)
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on June 20, 2018, 09:04:27 PM
^This is actually the $12.5 million already in the budget for the project, plus the state's $12.5 million match.

Sounds like Curry believes he can complete the demolition and reconfiguration in phases, rather than waiting on full funding to become available.

Credit where it's due here. Curry fought hard for those state dollars and made a fighting effort to get federal funding. If ramp removal opens up Met Park and the Shipyards for enhanced development, we'll ROI on the project.

Hopefully we see a PD&E advertised soon.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: vicupstate on June 20, 2018, 09:26:24 PM
According to Mtrain, since Trump was President/Despot, his BFF Scott was Governor, and 2nd BFF Curry was Mayor, getting the Federal money was a slam dunk.   
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on June 20, 2018, 10:17:19 PM
According to Mtrain, since Trump was President/Despot, his BFF Scott was Governor, and 2nd BFF Curry was Mayor, getting the Federal money was a slam dunk.   

To me, it's always felt like a longshot. If you look at the intent of the Infrastructure for Rebuilding America program, and the projects that have been awarded grants, the program is intended to help improve, expand, or rebuild existing roadways, bridges, and transportation networks. Even with the slightly disingenuous name (Talleyrand Connector), it's clear that the Hart Bridge project is intended to make the Shipyards/Met Park more marketable, not improve our crumbling infrastructure.

Silver lining, if Trump launches an Infrastructure for Demolishing America program, I'm pretty sure we're a shoe-in.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on June 21, 2018, 12:08:17 PM
According to Mtrain, since Trump was President/Despot, his BFF Scott was Governor, and 2nd BFF Curry was Mayor, getting the Federal money was a slam dunk.

RattlerGator
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: vicupstate on June 21, 2018, 12:18:12 PM
According to Mtrain, since Trump was President/Despot, his BFF Scott was Governor, and 2nd BFF Curry was Mayor, getting the Federal money was a slam dunk.

RattlerGator

Ah. That does sound right.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: tufsu1 on June 24, 2018, 07:12:34 PM
It was laughable from the beginning that the City made the freight enhancement argument so they could apply for the one Federal program - the better bet is submit under the BUILD (formerly TIGER) program.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Downtown Osprey on August 02, 2018, 11:39:07 AM
"Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Kahn’s Iguana Investments group provided its first conceptual plans for the first phase of a $2.5 billion Northbank riverfront development next to TIAA Bank Field where Metropolitan Park now sits."

Article: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-owner-shad-khan-reveals-convention-center-hotel-plans-for-shipyards

Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: JaGoaT on August 02, 2018, 02:47:32 PM
Will this get done???

I think so.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: MikeG1479 on August 02, 2018, 06:01:24 PM
I mean, this sounds pretty promising?  This seems now to me, more than just a pipe dream?  This project has probably moved farther along than any other project for the Shipyards.  Kind of excited.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: heights unknown on August 02, 2018, 11:24:51 PM
"Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Kahn’s Iguana Investments group provided its first conceptual plans for the first phase of a $2.5 billion Northbank riverfront development next to TIAA Bank Field where Metropolitan Park now sits."

Article: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-owner-shad-khan-reveals-convention-center-hotel-plans-for-shipyards


JEA needs to stop listening to Shad Khan and think about the City Center. In my opinion that's where they (JEA) needs to be; not displaced way out east of the core in the entertainment district within the confines of the stadium and its district.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: RattlerGator on August 03, 2018, 12:28:39 AM
Ah. That does sound right.

You're damn right it sounds right . . . because it *is* right and they *are* going to get federal money to finish it off.

But y'all keep bitching and moaning and doubting. Greenville, Greenville, Greenville -- right, vic ? ? ?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Kerry on August 03, 2018, 12:55:23 AM
"Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Kahn’s Iguana Investments group provided its first conceptual plans for the first phase of a $2.5 billion Northbank riverfront development next to TIAA Bank Field where Metropolitan Park now sits."

Article: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-owner-shad-khan-reveals-convention-center-hotel-plans-for-shipyards

This the 3rd time.  By the 2021 start date the Jags will either be in London or we'll by 9 months into a recession, and probably both.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: downtownbrown on August 03, 2018, 08:38:48 AM
in my view this whole press release is shouting just one thing: TAKE DOWN THE RAMPS, OR ELSE...

Just a tease to try to lever up the urgency of the Hart Bridge project.  Everything else, like this fresh round of fictional renderings, are meaningless. 
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: pierre on August 03, 2018, 08:42:31 AM
"Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Kahn’s Iguana Investments group provided its first conceptual plans for the first phase of a $2.5 billion Northbank riverfront development next to TIAA Bank Field where Metropolitan Park now sits."

Article: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-owner-shad-khan-reveals-convention-center-hotel-plans-for-shipyards

This the 3rd time.  By the 2021 start date the Jags will either be in London or we'll by 9 months into a recession, and probably both.

LOL. There is a 0% chance they will be in London in 2021.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Adam White on August 03, 2018, 08:50:04 AM
"Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Kahn’s Iguana Investments group provided its first conceptual plans for the first phase of a $2.5 billion Northbank riverfront development next to TIAA Bank Field where Metropolitan Park now sits."

Article: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-owner-shad-khan-reveals-convention-center-hotel-plans-for-shipyards

This the 3rd time.  By the 2021 start date the Jags will either be in London or we'll by 9 months into a recession, and probably both.

LOL. There is a 0% chance they will be in London in 2021.

Yeah, they'll probably have already left London by that time due to lack of attendance.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: remc86007 on August 06, 2018, 09:59:32 AM
BTW updates on the concept, all the flyovers West of Intuition will stay and carry vehicular traffic, no more repurposing as a pedestrian overpass, and a sidewalk path (10' wide) is being considered to route pedestrian traffic West via Monroe, then up Catherine, and then along Duval.

I'm confused. The ramps above the shipyards will be taken down, but not the ramps that feed them west of Intuition?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on August 06, 2018, 10:39:05 AM
ANOTHER fatal wrong-way crash on the Hart last night.

So sad.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: downtownbrown on August 06, 2018, 10:56:02 AM
Concept plans are still in development with COJ to determine the final concept for the bridge removal. Then we can proceed to generating the RFP, then it will get bid and selected, and THEN the selected engineering/contracting joint venture will begin final engineering and construction.

Yes, the freight aspect was laughable IMHO, but we'll see about the other federal funding. I think COJ/FDOT might be serious enough to fund this themselves, though, but we'll have to see when we get to that point.

BTW updates on the concept, all the flyovers West of Intuition will stay and carry vehicular traffic, no more repurposing as a pedestrian overpass, and a sidewalk path (10' wide) is being considered to route pedestrian traffic West via Monroe, then up Catherine, and then along Duval.


Any way you can post a picture of that?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on August 06, 2018, 10:40:56 PM
BTW updates on the concept, all the flyovers West of Intuition will stay and carry vehicular traffic, no more repurposing as a pedestrian overpass, and a sidewalk path (10' wide) is being considered to route pedestrian traffic West via Monroe, then up Catherine, and then along Duval.

I'm confused. The ramps above the shipyards will be taken down, but not the ramps that feed them west of Intuition?

Yep, pretty stupid.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 06, 2018, 11:30:22 PM
Be much more complicated, and costly, to remove the western ends of the Hart Ramps, due to their proximity to buildings.
And, they aren't in the way of the Khan development.

I am disappointed there won't be any pedestrian use of these ramps.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on August 06, 2018, 11:51:52 PM
Concept plans are still in development with COJ to determine the final concept for the bridge removal. Then we can proceed to generating the RFP, then it will get bid and selected, and THEN the selected engineering/contracting joint venture will begin final engineering and construction.

Yes, the freight aspect was laughable IMHO, but we'll see about the other federal funding. I think COJ/FDOT might be serious enough to fund this themselves, though, but we'll have to see when we get to that point.

BTW updates on the concept, all the flyovers West of Intuition will stay and carry vehicular traffic, no more repurposing as a pedestrian overpass, and a sidewalk path (10' wide) is being considered to route pedestrian traffic West via Monroe, then up Catherine, and then along Duval.


Any way you can post a picture of that?

(https://snag.gy/1VPTku.jpg)

(https://snag.gy/FibrMK.jpg)

Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: JaGoaT on August 07, 2018, 12:36:26 AM
Those renderings are beautiful
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on August 07, 2018, 08:04:48 AM
Uh, does that plan cut off Bay Street?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on August 07, 2018, 08:32:32 AM
Uh, does that plan cut off Bay Street?

The Jags are removing Bay Street west of Intuition so that no sports complex visitors accidentally stumble upon downtown Jacksonville.

Only downside is the JTA clown cars on the Bay Street extension now plummet directly into the St. Johns River.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Captain Zissou on August 07, 2018, 09:34:26 AM
I'm very confused about how eastbound traffic on bay street will get to the stadium.  Also, are they turning Lot P into a park?  That looks like a ton of shade trees that aren't currently there.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: downtownbrown on August 07, 2018, 09:48:46 AM
Looks like Bay Street merges with the east bound lanes from the west side ramp, if you follow my description... But it looks pretty tight.  Then again, it's just a cartoon rendering, and Lord knows we've already seen a bunch of those.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on August 07, 2018, 09:50:21 AM
Don't get too excited by what's shown in those renderings. They're highly conceptual and tend to change every few months. Neither the buildings or the street will look that way.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on August 07, 2018, 10:38:36 AM
Don't get too excited by what's shown in those renderings. They're highly conceptual and tend to change every few months. Neither the buildings or the street will look that way.

To your point:

State of the Franchise:
(https://snag.gy/3Qh8pL.jpg)

Convention Center RFP:
(https://snag.gy/tgEHC9.jpg)
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on August 07, 2018, 11:32:39 AM
All those big towers are placeholders. One disappeared with the latest set of renderings. Those shiny things also look completely different from the short bland box JEA concept posted last week.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: downtownbrown on August 07, 2018, 12:56:34 PM
so do you see a light at the intersection of Bay and the ramp eastbound, or does it go from 2 to 4 lanes there, or what?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on August 07, 2018, 12:58:10 PM
Bay Street eastbound will dip down into Lot X to tie into the proposed roadway. The renderings don't show that portion of roadway, which makes it confusing.

So the ramps are now going to dump down into the middle of Bay Street and the road is going to split around it?  Completely blocking off the sightlines between downtown and the stadium district?  I get that the ramps will be expensive to demolish but that seems like a step backwards.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: downtownbrown on August 07, 2018, 01:19:35 PM
Bay Street merges to one lane on game day....hmmmm.

So can I get on the existing ramp at Liberty and Forsyth and avoid the Bay Street choke point? 


I walk to the games so it won't impact me.  I'm guessing the choke point was designed by the ticket scalpers...
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: downtownbrown on August 07, 2018, 02:01:59 PM
unintended consequence of making it easier to buy your tickets.  Thanks for all the info!
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 07, 2018, 03:14:51 PM
1. Are the 3 lanes in each direction all automobile lanes, or is one (each way) reserved for the JTA autonomous vehicle shuttles?  Recognizing that the rendering is not an engineering drawing, it appears to show special JTA lanes.
2. Will these be buffered bike lanes, consistent with new FDOT standards (I know GB Blvd. is not a state road, but their standards tend to prevail) at 7 feet including a 2 foot buffer; or just a 4 inch paint stripe?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on August 07, 2018, 04:37:05 PM
1. There has been no discussion on our part about AV's. As far as I know those are supposed to be capable of mingling with regular vehicular traffic anyhow, aren't they? 3 standard general purpose lanes is the current configuration. 
2. 7' non-buffered bike lanes is in our current concept.

JTA is claiming that the AV's will be able to mix in traffic. They can't do that and won't be able to for years, and even if they could, it's a bad idea because transit needs dedicated lanes. It's interesting that the Skyway isn't included in any of these discussions.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on August 07, 2018, 05:01:42 PM
Is it? The mayor's office is directly competing against them to land federal money for the Hart Bridge ramp removal. That's about all you need to you about their thoughts on JTA's proposal.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Jagsdrew on August 14, 2018, 09:36:34 AM
It looks like maybe there are bike lanes included? I can't quite tell.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Steve on August 14, 2018, 10:26:58 AM
https://www.wokv.com/news/local/paving-the-way-for-progress-depth-proposed-hart-bridge-ramp-removal-project/VGsNzvtq2saby2IVu55i1J/

Looks like they've released some of the concept plans! WOKV doesn't have t e highest quality, but they have cropped sections in the lower portion of the article. Finally, y'all can see what I'm talking about. These are the latest plans we'v worked with COJ on. The sidewalk is in blue, BTW

Also, are they planning on keeping the ability to reverse the lanes as is in place currently? If not I'm totally okay with that; just curious. Hopefully they can do most of the work in a football offseason.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Steve on August 14, 2018, 10:30:23 AM
Disregard my post - just re-read.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Steve on August 14, 2018, 10:32:03 AM
It looks like maybe there are bike lanes included? I can't quite tell.

It looks like there are bike lanes, at least until the intersection with the Hart bridge.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on August 14, 2018, 01:32:38 PM
makes more sense now.  Do traffic studies really show the need for a 6 lane road there?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Jagsdrew on August 14, 2018, 02:03:11 PM
6-lanes is probably necessary since that is the main road to the sports complex.  Wish they would trim that down to 4 with two dedicated wide bike lanes and sidewalks on either side.  Make it more focused on bike use and pedestrians.  That area needs to be walkable if they envision all this development.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Steve on August 14, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
https://www.wokv.com/news/local/paving-the-way-for-progress-depth-proposed-hart-bridge-ramp-removal-project/VGsNzvtq2saby2IVu55i1J/

Looks like they've released some of the concept plans! WOKV doesn't have t e highest quality, but they have cropped sections in the lower portion of the article. Finally, y'all can see what I'm talking about. These are the latest plans we'v worked with COJ on. The sidewalk is in blue, BTW

I looked at it a little deeper. The Bay Street - APR intersection looks a little rough for the pedestrian. I see the logic from the automobile perspective, but think if you're a pedestrian in that area. To me (and I'm not a traffic engineer), there should be signals at both parts of the "double intersection" created there now, and there should be sidewalks on both sides of APR between both areas of Bay Street. They should also add a light at Bay & Lafayette street so pedestrians can get across if need be. I know it's a lot of lights but can't they be interconnected?

Alternatively, could you get rid of the Bay Street "split" just past Lafayette and put a light at Bay and Georgia?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: acme54321 on August 14, 2018, 02:56:59 PM
6-lanes is probably necessary since that is the main road to the sports complex.  Wish they would trim that down to 4 with two dedicated wide bike lanes and sidewalks on either side.  Make it more focused on bike use and pedestrians.  That area needs to be walkable if they envision all this development.

It's the main road to the stadium and it's 4 lanes now.  If they want to integrate the sports complex and shipyards like they claim it seems that such a wide road would be a bit of a divide on the pedestrian level.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Steve on August 14, 2018, 03:38:59 PM
As for the pedestrians, having sidewalk on the westerly side of that little stretch beneath the ramps makes little sense, why would you have two pathways beneath the bridge, creating more pedestrian crossing points across the busier roadway?

One of the challenges in our urban environment is sidewalks that just "end". In this example, one of Intuition's parking areas is on the other side of Bay Street. With the rendering, a person leaving intuition would have to cross APR, cross Westbound Bay, cross Eastbound Bay, then cross APR again (potentially) to get to their car.

We can't always prioritize the car over the pedestrian, especially not downtown.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 14, 2018, 03:51:11 PM
It looks like the new terminus of the "downtown" section of the Hart system will consume much, if not all, the lot Intuition uses.  Am I reading the map correctly?

Also, are reversible lanes feasible (safe) when there is a median?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: heights unknown on August 14, 2018, 06:24:06 PM
https://www.wokv.com/news/local/paving-the-way-for-progress-depth-proposed-hart-bridge-ramp-removal-project/VGsNzvtq2saby2IVu55i1J/

Looks like they've released some of the concept plans! WOKV doesn't have t e highest quality, but they have cropped sections in the lower portion of the article. Finally, y'all can see what I'm talking about. These are the latest plans we'v worked with COJ on. The sidewalk is in blue, BTW
Take the damn ramp, the section that's not needed near the stadium area and complex down and take it down yesterday. I never looked at this ramp as a barrier, etc., but this seems to be a well thought out plan and justification for removing most or all of that ramp. I used to love riding down that ramp and seeing the tall buildings in the skyline of Jacksonville, however, new developments, construction, etc., mandates and justifies the need to remove the ramps (parts of it) in which it is imperative that they (or it) be removed in order to make way for essential and much needed development and prosperity for the stadium district and downtown.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: heights unknown on August 14, 2018, 06:28:52 PM
As for the pedestrians, having sidewalk on the westerly side of that little stretch beneath the ramps makes little sense, why would you have two pathways beneath the bridge, creating more pedestrian crossing points across the busier roadway?

One of the challenges in our urban environment is sidewalks that just "end". In this example, one of Intuition's parking areas is on the other side of Bay Street. With the rendering, a person leaving intuition would have to cross APR, cross Westbound Bay, cross Eastbound Bay, then cross APR again (potentially) to get to their car.

We can't always prioritize the car over the pedestrian, especially not downtown.
I agree. You must integrate and balance the "use" of cars and pedestrians equally in the urban core and downtown. You can't emphasize one and not the other.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 14, 2018, 09:45:08 PM
< snip >
Reversible lanes shouldn't be a problem, you just have to end the reversible lanes before you go back to a divided roadway, just like what happens on Bay Street just east of the APR Street intersection.

I don't understand.  In the drawings, the full of Gator Bowl Blvd., from west of APRandolph to where the new ramps come down, is shown with grass or raised concrete medians.  The existing GB Blvd. / Bay Street only has a painted median, or just a center-line - no physical median anywhere.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 15, 2018, 03:16:57 PM
The lane control lights and the Begin/End Reversible Lanes signs seem to indicate that the reversible lanes currently continue east of APR.  Am I correct?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Steve on August 15, 2018, 03:32:54 PM
Looking at it closely again, we've designed a pedestrian crossing point right there at Intuition's main parking lot. You can see the little splotch of blue peeking out from under the bridge, so it'll actually be an improvement over what's out there today since you'll have a pedestrian refuge area between the westbound and eastbound lanes. Looks like the problem wasn't ever even a problem, and is actually an improvement.    ;D

I don't know if I'd call this an "improvement", but I get that you're constrained by having to do this in the first place. Personally, I think we can stand to just dump the entire elevated ramps, but I get the expense of doing that.

I'd love to see this one the signalization is complete.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on August 15, 2018, 04:00:23 PM
The lane control lights and the Begin/End Reversible Lanes signs seem to indicate that the reversible lanes currently continue east of APR.  Am I correct?

The reversible lanes do currently run east of APR. In the concept, they must start at APR and continue west, although you'd have quite the bottleneck situation exiting westbound at APR to access Bay Street. If a traffic study hasn't already been done, it would be good to do one before getting this far down the road.

As for the concept itself, it certainly is no Embarcadero. It appears to be a pretty standard street designed to existing design criteria. It would be good to overlay the Jag's plans for this area with this exact same roadway plan. If so, I think we'll see that the sidewalks should be wider on both sides of the street, transit lanes should be accommodated, and there should be more areas for pedestrians to cross in between APR and the Hart Bridge. If not, then fencing or heavy landscaping will be needed to channel people from jaywalking all over that corridor.

But maybe it's me for thinking razing the bridge would automatically mean getting a more comprehensive context sensitive street based on the stuff the Jags keep offering up in their renderings.

Embarcadero:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/San-Francisco-2015/i-VqFXTjL/1/b934e6d9/L/DSCF6664-L.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/San-Francisco-2015/i-BxbZVpj/1/bb186298/L/DSCF6673-L.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Learning-From/San-Francisco-2015/i-HZR7b8R/1/291b35cd/L/DSCF7092-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: heights unknown on August 15, 2018, 04:05:16 PM
Looking at it closely again, we've designed a pedestrian crossing point right there at Intuition's main parking lot. You can see the little splotch of blue peeking out from under the bridge, so it'll actually be an improvement over what's out there today since you'll have a pedestrian refuge area between the westbound and eastbound lanes. Looks like the problem wasn't ever even a problem, and is actually an improvement.    ;D

I don't know if I'd call this an "improvement", but I get that you're constrained by having to do this in the first place. Personally, I think we can stand to just dump the entire elevated ramps, but I get the expense of doing that.

I'd love to see this one the signalization is complete.
I think why they are leaving portions of this ramp intact is because the sections that will come down to ground level is where immediate development and construction around the stadium and the proposed hotel/convention center will be and is needed immediately to support those plans. The other sections that will still be elevated are areas where no immediate or significant development is planned immediately or in the not too far away and foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: downtownbrown on August 15, 2018, 04:25:36 PM
...and it's a helluva lot cheaper, apparently
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 15, 2018, 04:31:06 PM
State Road 228 (SR 228) crosses the Hart Bridge and connects to the Forsyth/Adams one-way pair via the elevated ramps. So, it seems logical that SR 228 will come to ground and follow Bay Street (or is it Gator Bowl Boulevard) until it reaches the remnant ramps at APR.   This means it would need to follow the FDOT Design Manual.  Under the new Context Based Design, if the posted speed is 35 MPH, travel lanes can be as narrow as 10', but due to transit and trucks, 11' might be OK.  For new construction (or, I would argue, full reconstruction), the standard is 7-foot buffered bike lanes, on both sides.  Sidewalks should be on both sides, and at least six feet in width.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: tufsu1 on August 15, 2018, 05:00:05 PM
I sure am super excited about this project. It will definitely improve freight movements to/from Talleyrand. The City was smart to suggest such a benefit to the Feds. Too bad they couldn't envision it ;)
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on August 15, 2018, 05:05:20 PM
State Road 228 (SR 228) crosses the Hart Bridge and connects to the Forsyth/Adams one-way pair via the elevated ramps. So, it seems logical that SR 228 will come to ground and follow Bay Street (or is it Gator Bowl Boulevard) until it reaches the remnant ramps at APR.   This means it would need to follow the FDOT Design Manual.  Under the new Context Based Design, if the posted speed is 35 MPH, travel lanes can be as narrow as 10', but due to transit and trucks, 11' might be OK.  For new construction (or, I would argue, full reconstruction), the standard is 7-foot buffered bike lanes, on both sides.  Sidewalks should be on both sides, and at least six feet in width.

Given freight and transit, it would not be wise to make the lanes less than 11' in width. However, I find the FDM pretty weak on bicycle and shared use path facilities in Context Classifications that are C4 and above. It actually kicks the bucket down the street and contradicts itself in a few spots. Given the assumed truck traffic, this strip would be better off with a cycle track but the FDM punts separated bike facilities to the FHWA. With that said, those proposed bicycle lanes should be at least 7 feet in width if SR 228 sticks around.

The corridor is probably considered C3 Suburban today, given it's lined with surface parking lots. However, what Khan is proposing would change this strip into a C5 Urban Center or C6 Urban Core around the same time the street is rebuilt. If that's the case, the proposed sidewalks on both sides of the street should be 10 to 12' in width as opposed to C3 Suburban's standard 6'.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 15, 2018, 05:19:58 PM
Good point about needing to look at the proposed context.  And, since it is currently a local street, I am pretty sure FDOT did not classify it.  Yes, the truck use should mean 11' lanes, although, I suspect FDOT will push for 12 feet.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on August 15, 2018, 06:39:46 PM
12 foot lanes should still be fine if they include pedestrian refuges in the median and wider sidewalks set back from the curb.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on September 06, 2018, 06:21:29 PM
Recent article from the TU. Based on a study from FDOT, which sounds like part of the application for the freight grant for "improving access to Talleyrand" ports. Says it will improve downtown traffic.
 http://www.jacksonville.com/opinion/20180826/downtown-thumbs-hart-bridge-changes-would-improve-downtown-traffic
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: tufsu1 on September 08, 2018, 11:32:50 AM
^ The hype machine is strong
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on September 08, 2018, 12:10:30 PM
Councilman Scott Wilson is holding a Town Meeting about the Hart Ramp Removal, on Monday, September 10 at 6:00 PM at the Elks Lodge at 1855 West Road.  John Pappas of Public Works, Jim Knight of FDOT, and Brian Hughes Mayor Curry's Chief of Staff are scheduled.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on September 08, 2018, 06:25:36 PM
Quote
Called the "Talleyrand Connector," the changes will produce many benefits:

• Providing new freight access to the Talleyrand port district. Yes, there still are shipping activities near Downtown. This would eliminate freight bottleneck and thus would support more port development in Talleyrand.

What freight bottleneck? There's already ramps right off Talleyrand at East Duval Street. How exactly is freight access improved to Talleyrand?

Quote
• Relieving congestion along multiple points along the Hart Expressway, which is the preferred route for trucks traveling northbound on Interstate 95 to the Talleyrand district. Currently, the Hart ramps send done lane to Liberty Street and the other to the east. The new connector would add one lane to the west and two lanes to the east, improving capacity by 17 percent to the west and 67 percent to the east.

How much freight traffic is actually going west to Liberty Street? From observation over the years, most freight traffic continues north. Viaduct or not, that's likely not going to change, considering the location of the proposed ramp down to Gator Bowl Blvd.

Quote
• Improving safety. The Hart Expressway on-ramp coming from Liberty Street, merging with the on-ramp from Duval Street has three times the crash rate as similar facilities.

Seriously? Crash rate aside, what's the actual number of crashes at these ramps? Also, I thought these ramps were staying open in the latest concept because that section of the viaduct was too expensive to tear down?

Quote
• Improved connectivity to Downtown. The plan is to remove the elevated ramp between A. Philip Randolph Boulevard and Festival Park Avenue.

Removing the elevated ramp would open up access to the stadium district. Connectivity to Downtown would be a bit worse, considering right now there's a free flow option to access downtown.

Quote
Bay Street would be widened from four lanes to six lanes with turn lanes to TIAA Bank Field. A. Philip Randolph Boulevard would be extended to the St. Johns River.

What plan extends A. Philip Randolph Boulevard to the river? What would be the point of that? Bay would only be widened between TIAA Bank Field and A. Philip Randolph. There's a chance A. Philip Randolph Blvd would become a choke point since the lane configuration would remain the same west of the intersection.

Quote
There would be a new signalized intersection at Bay Street and Gator Bowl Boulevard with a ramp down to Talleyrand Avenue designed to accommodate large trucks.

Ramp down to Talleyrand Avenue? Is this a replacement for the existing ramp to Duval Street or does the Duval Street ramp stay?

Quote
There would be a new bridge over Festival Park Avenue to the Bay Street-Gator Bowl intersections.

There would be a new loop ramp over A. Philip Randolph Boulevard to Bay Street with improved signals.

Perhaps most importantly, a new computerized transportation system would improve traffic flow and safety.

All this sounds like a stretch in making an argument for spending $48 million to demolish a structurally sound viaduct.

Quote
The Talleyrand port is more important than many realize: It includes terminals for Crowley Maritime, which handles one-third of Northeast Florida's exports to Puerto Rico.

Jacksonville is one of the nation's busiest ports for vehicle handling. A large part of the 636,000 vehicles moved from the port in 2016 came through the Talleyrand port, home of Southeast Toyota.

North Florida Shipyards, located under the Hart Bridge, specializes in military repairs.

The Hart Bridge is a direct connection for major businesses such as Maxwell House, U.S. Gypsum and Cypress Trucking.

Some of these benefits sound like a real stretch. I understand the desire to development the Shipyards but seriously??  Isn't Crowley Maritime closing their Talleyrand Terminal? Maxwell House has operated in the same location for over a century. Does the majority of their freight traffic utilize the Hart Bridge, as opposed to other corridors in the area? On the other hand, assuming there's an event at the stadium during the week, what impact does that have on downtown traffic coming from and heading to the Hart Bridge? It's hard to believe that's an improved condition. With that said, I'm a fan of removing the ramps from an economic development standpoint.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on September 08, 2018, 08:54:21 PM
Lake, were you reading my mind when you wrote that?
Seriously, all excellent points.

But, you know how grant writing works.  You highlight to the greatest extent any possible benefits that fit the scope of the grant program you are applying for.  If the grant had been for bike-ped projects, freight wouldn't have even been mentioned, and bicycles and pedestrians highlighted.

Anybody going to C/M Wilson's Town Hall Monday?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: edjax on December 06, 2018, 11:45:33 AM
I see that the Feds have agreed to find the 12 million for the removal of the ramps
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 06, 2018, 12:25:30 PM
http://floridapolitics.com/archives/282736-jax-transportation-money
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: FlaBoy on December 06, 2018, 12:55:01 PM
Give Rattler some credit for calling that the Feds would step up on this one. ;)
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Adam White on December 06, 2018, 01:06:01 PM
Give Rattler some credit for calling that the Feds would step up on this one. ;)

I've got nothing but love for JB. But until the Meuller report reveals extensive contacts between the Trump and Curry admins, I ain't giving him shit for credit on this!
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: edjax on December 06, 2018, 02:48:55 PM
I saw in a Rubio tweet about this he said it also included funding for the Urban Core Riverside project.  Does anyone know what that is?  Or the official name for the Hart damp removal?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: edjax on December 06, 2018, 02:50:33 PM
^^^^^ never mind. Saw it was a mistake in the tweet mentioned in a different thread. 
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: RattlerGator on December 06, 2018, 04:05:44 PM
FDOT will likely not be driving the train on this. The Legislature and the Trump Administration will likely have them singing a different tune soon.

Hmmmmmm.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: RattlerGator on December 06, 2018, 04:06:27 PM
Lol, if you think FDOT is going to pay for it within a year, you better believe they'll be in the front of the train.

Ennis, Ennis, Ennis.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: RattlerGator on December 06, 2018, 04:07:17 PM
The (Florida) Legislature is supposed to be working on the funding, and our delagation is behind it. But they are almost all newbies and won't be in any leadership positions. The main issue will be identifying the money; the next issue will be FDOT actually getting on the ball with it if the money is found. And no, the President of the United States isn't going to weigh in on a state issue affecting one bridge in one city.

Say what now ? ? ?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: RattlerGator on December 06, 2018, 04:08:14 PM
If an Infrastructure bill gets passed, which is a very big IF, that would at least provide a pot of money to do this project. more likely,  it would allow a higher priority project to get funded and thereby be removed as an competitor for funding.  If the engineering work is already done, that would increasing the chances of something happening sooner rather than later.  Regardless, until Curry or someone has some big chips to play, I wouldn't expect this to move forward  in the next year or two.

So many doubters in the big city.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 06, 2018, 04:21:40 PM
Lol, if you think FDOT is going to pay for it within a year, you better believe they'll be in the front of the train.

Ennis, Ennis, Ennis.

Lol, it's been two years since that quote! Also FDOT isn't paying for the project.

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/282736-jax-transportation-money

If an Infrastructure bill gets passed, which is a very big IF, that would at least provide a pot of money to do this project. more likely,  it would allow a higher priority project to get funded and thereby be removed as an competitor for funding.  If the engineering work is already done, that would increasing the chances of something happening sooner rather than later.  Regardless, until Curry or someone has some big chips to play, I wouldn't expect this to move forward  in the next year or two.

So many doubters in the big city.

Even Vic's quote is right. It's two years and you're still looking at a few more years.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: RattlerGator on December 06, 2018, 04:24:27 PM
According to Mtrain, since Trump was President/Despot, his BFF Scott was Governor, and 2nd BFF Curry was Mayor, getting the Federal money was a slam dunk.

Hello, old friend.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: RattlerGator on December 06, 2018, 04:27:08 PM
According to Mtrain, since Trump was President/Despot, his BFF Scott was Governor, and 2nd BFF Curry was Mayor, getting the Federal money was a slam dunk.

RattlerGator

Live, and in sho 'nuff living color.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: RattlerGator on December 06, 2018, 04:29:11 PM
According to Mtrain, since Trump was President/Despot, his BFF Scott was Governor, and 2nd BFF Curry was Mayor, getting the Federal money was a slam dunk.

RattlerGator

Ah. That does sound right.

Not just sounds right, was right.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: RattlerGator on December 06, 2018, 04:31:35 PM
It was laughable from the beginning that the City made the freight enhancement argument so they could apply for the one Federal program - the better bet is submit under the BUILD (formerly TIGER) program.

Laughable . . . from the beginning. There's that optimism that defines this ever-doubtful board.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: RattlerGator on December 06, 2018, 04:33:19 PM
Ah. That does sound right.

You're damn right it sounds right . . . because it *is* right and they *are* going to get federal money to finish it off.

But y'all keep bitching and moaning and doubting. Greenville, Greenville, Greenville -- right, vic ? ? ?

Do you remember this, vic?

I mean, some people understand politics and some people bitch about density.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: RattlerGator on December 06, 2018, 04:45:02 PM
I sure am super excited about this project. It will definitely improve freight movements to/from Talleyrand. The City was smart to suggest such a benefit to the Feds. Too bad they couldn't envision it ;)

Snarked just a bit too soon, tufsu1.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 06, 2018, 04:52:04 PM
It was laughable from the beginning that the City made the freight enhancement argument so they could apply for the one Federal program - the better bet is submit under the BUILD (formerly TIGER) program.

Laughable . . . from the beginning. There's that optimism that defines this ever-doubtful board.

You just validated his response. This pot of money comes from the BUILD program!
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: RattlerGator on December 06, 2018, 04:59:14 PM

Even Vic's quote is right. It's two years and you're still looking at a few more years.

First, thank you FlaBoy. And Adam, I still loves ya, bwah and so does the Orange Bad Man. Ha !!!

But Ennis, woah Ennis . . .  don't you dare play that game, Polk County. Take this victory lap beating like the man you are. I didn't validate anything because I didn't specify a program -- did I? I merely said the money would absolutely be forthcoming, federal and state.

I was correct, y'all were blatantly wrong, and no amount of dancing a jig changes that.

This thread should seriously be archived and highlighted. Optimism costs no one anything, MetroJax commenters, a respect for politics is always warranted, and y'all seriously don't know who the hell Lenny Curry is. We're truly lucky to have him as mayor.

Shiznit is happening in Big Duval, and more is on the way. Now if those (excuse me, "our") damn Jaguars could just give me some good play for the remainder of this season . . . all will be well.

Now, time for wifey's Christmas party. I'm not sure why exactly but . . . I'm in one hell of a celebratory mood.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Tacachale on December 06, 2018, 05:20:29 PM
The (Florida) Legislature is supposed to be working on the funding, and our delagation is behind it. But they are almost all newbies and won't be in any leadership positions. The main issue will be identifying the money; the next issue will be FDOT actually getting on the ball with it if the money is found. And no, the President of the United States isn't going to weigh in on a state issue affecting one bridge in one city.

Say what now ? ? ?

Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: jagsonville on December 06, 2018, 05:37:02 PM
Rattlegator went off on everyone. This is gold!  ;D
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 06, 2018, 06:16:06 PM
Lol I love it!
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: vicupstate on December 06, 2018, 07:16:49 PM
If an Infrastructure bill gets passed, which is a very big IF, that would at least provide a pot of money to do this project. more likely,  it would allow a higher priority project to get funded and thereby be removed as an competitor for funding.  If the engineering work is already done, that would increasing the chances of something happening sooner rather than later.  Regardless, until Curry or someone has some big chips to play, I wouldn't expect this to move forward  in the next year or two.

So many doubters in the big city.

1) I said an Infrastructure bill was unlikely to pass.  Not only has an Infrastructure bill NOT been passed in the two years hence, it was not even been unveiled.
2) I said that work on this would not start within two years. I was right.

No one ever said that this project would NEVER happen, nor that the Feds would not fund any of it. When Curry made the announcement you were expecting funding in short order and actual work to begin in like a year. These projects take longer than that. In two years the final funding is in place and some design work has been done. It will be more months before demolish or other actual work happens.     

Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on December 06, 2018, 07:40:20 PM

Even Vic's quote is right. It's two years and you're still looking at a few more years.

First, thank you FlaBoy. And Adam, I still loves ya, bwah and so does the Orange Bad Man. Ha !!!

But Ennis, woah Ennis . . .  don't you dare play that game, Polk County. Take this victory lap beating like the man you are. I didn't validate anything because I didn't specify a program -- did I? I merely said the money would absolutely be forthcoming, federal and state.

I was correct, y'all were blatantly wrong, and no amount of dancing a jig changes that.

This thread should seriously be archived and highlighted. Optimism costs no one anything, MetroJax commenters, a respect for politics is always warranted, and y'all seriously don't know who the hell Lenny Curry is. We're truly lucky to have him as mayor.

Shiznit is happening in Big Duval, and more is on the way. Now if those (excuse me, "our") damn Jaguars could just give me some good play for the remainder of this season . . . all will be well.

Now, time for wifey's Christmas party. I'm not sure why exactly but . . . I'm in one hell of a celebratory mood.

Sorry, you were wrong. Two years have past since the immediate funding was supposed to show up. If we base things off your original assessment, the bridge should already be done by now. In reality, we're still years away and that's assuming there's no environmental hiccups along the way.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Adam White on December 07, 2018, 04:49:12 AM

Even Vic's quote is right. It's two years and you're still looking at a few more years.

First, thank you FlaBoy. And Adam, I still loves ya, bwah and so does the Orange Bad Man. Ha !!!


Glad to see you're still around. It got a bit quiet on the RattlerGator front for a while. But I guess you chose a good moment to reappear.

Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: bl8jaxnative on December 08, 2018, 09:20:29 AM
Recent article from the TU. Based on a study from FDOT, which sounds like part of the application for the freight grant for "improving access to Talleyrand" ports. Says it will improve downtown traffic.
 http://www.jacksonville.com/opinion/20180826/downtown-thumbs-hart-bridge-changes-would-improve-downtown-traffic

This is a good plan.  I hope they keep plugging away to put together the pieces to get it done.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on December 10, 2018, 08:15:07 PM
If the Florida Legislature appropriates money to remove the Hart Ramps, it will likely come at the cost of deferring projects in the Jacksonville area that FDOT has already vetted, or is in the process of vetting.  These "earmark" projects come from the same pot of gas tax money as the projects already in the FDOT's five-year plan.  Will be interesting to see what project(s) get pushed out, or canned.  Another alternative would be to reduce the scope, or the cost estimate, of an existing big dollar project - where $12.5 M "won't be missed".
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on January 16, 2019, 09:20:58 PM
The start date has now been pushed back to 2020...

https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190116/hart-bridge-ramp-demolition-date-in-early-2020
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on January 16, 2019, 10:00:53 PM
Four lanes?  Really?  I'd like to see the traffic numbers on that.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on January 17, 2019, 04:57:13 AM
It kind of sounds like they're just going to demolish the ramps and keep the existing Gator Bowl Boulevard.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on January 17, 2019, 08:25:50 AM
And build a multi-use path on the south side of the road.  Where will the JTA Pods go?  No special lanes? In mixed traffic on the four-lane GB Blvd.?  On the multi-use path?  Did the City / FDOT / JTA coordinate on this?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on January 17, 2019, 08:37:02 AM
Sounds like an isolated multi-use path. Motorized vehicles aren't allowed on paths, so I guess the U2C will be in mixed lanes, but I doubt there's been serious coordination on that aspect. I also wonder how those four lanes will intersect with a new ramp at A. Philip Randolph? I suspect there will be more coordination and technical related delays as they get further down the road.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: KenFSU on January 17, 2019, 10:06:59 AM
Wait, I'm confused.

Sounds like they're bypassing a PD&E.

Isn't it required when federal funds are involved?
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on January 17, 2019, 10:15:31 AM
^Sounds like more of the Shipyards and District stuff to me. Quick to come out with timelines to appease the public, only to shift them a few months later when they realize more is needed. However, this article is the first time I've seen it discussed from a manner where they're razing the viaduct but not constructing a context sensitive boulevard in its place.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: downtownbrown on January 18, 2019, 09:27:31 AM
for reference, the courthouse parking lot removal was to be complete in Spring of 2018.  They are getting there....
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: tufsu1 on January 18, 2019, 02:34:50 PM
Wait, I'm confused.

Sounds like they're bypassing a PD&E.

Isn't it required when federal funds are involved?


generally for new capacity projects, and/or when environmental impacts might occur - but good question
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on January 18, 2019, 02:59:18 PM
Wait, I'm confused.

Sounds like they're bypassing a PD&E.

Isn't it required when federal funds are involved?


generally for new capacity projects, and/or when environmental impacts might occur - but good question

According to the FDOT PD&E Manual, because there are federal funds are involved, the process must comply with NEPA. The big question will be what type of environmental work will be needed. At the very least, it appears an Environmental Assessment will have to be performed, to determine the level of impacts.  Does the removal of the ramps "significantly impact travel patterns" or "have any significant environmental impacts"?  Like, the potential clean-up of the shipyard area to remove the bridge pilings; or new construction for the new ramps by WJCT and AP Randolph.  Although it is somewhat of a risk, Design and PD&E could proceed simultaneously.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: thelakelander on January 18, 2019, 03:10:06 PM
The schedule, like most they've put out over the last couple of years, sounds pretty ambitious. Expect the real process to last longer.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on January 18, 2019, 07:43:53 PM
Wonder if Bay Street / Gator Bowl Blvd. will be part of State Road 228 - like the ramps it will replace?  Or will there be a gap in the state road?  If it will be SR 228, the City will have to transfer the right-of-way from the to the State for the multi-use path. From what I've heard, that process can take a long time - but, I guess if the City is motivated, they can expedite.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: bl8jaxnative on January 19, 2019, 10:40:39 AM

I'm looking forward to see the elevated section gone.
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: southsider1015 on January 21, 2019, 08:59:27 AM
The schedule, like most they've put out over the last couple of years, sounds pretty ambitious. Expect the real process to last longer.

This.  Not one major infrastructure project in Jacksonville is on-schedule.  There's a significantly weak labor market in the construction field in Jacksonville. 
Title: Re: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field
Post by: Charles Hunter on February 25, 2019, 05:55:11 PM
FDOT  has set the public meeting for the Hart Ramps tear-down.  March 14, from 4 to 6 PM, at the FDOT Urban Office on Edison Avenue.  Will be in Open House format, which eliminates the opportunity to make public comments so all can hear; comments are made in writing, or to a court reporter. 

Here's the link to the project page, but it is empty, except for the meeting notice, and the contact info for the PIO.
http://nflroads.com/ProjectDetails.aspx?p=5257&f=4

Quote
Public Information Meeting (Thursday, March 14, 2019)
The Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT), in cooperation with the City of Jacksonville (COJ), invites you to attend a Public Meeting for the proposed improvements to the Hart / Talleyrand Expressway located in downtown Jacksonville, Florida. The public meeting will be held on Thursday, March 14, 2019, at the FDOT Urban Office Training Center, 2198 Edison Avenue, Jacksonville, FL 32204. The meeting will be in an “Open House” format from 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. to give you an opportunity to review the exhibits and talk one-on-one with FDOT staff.

Public participation is solicited without regard to race, color, national origin, age, sex, religion, disability, or family status. Persons who require special accommodations under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) or persons who require translation services (free of charge) should contact Brittany Chastain, at the number or email provided below at least 7 days before the meeting.

The environmental review, consultation, and other actions required by applicable federal environmental laws for this project are being, or have been, carried out by the FDOT pursuant to 23 U.S.C.§ 327 and a Memorandum of Understanding dated March 14, 2016 and executed by the Federal Highway Administration and FDOT.

For Additional Information, Please Contact:

Brittany Chastain
Florida Department of Transportation, District 2
1109 South Marion Avenue, MS 2007
Lake City, Florida 32025
Phone: (386) 961-7520
Email: Brittany.chastain@dot.state.fl.us