The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Urban Neighborhoods => San Marco => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on July 01, 2016, 03:00:03 AM

Title: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Metro Jacksonville on July 01, 2016, 03:00:03 AM
San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Architecture/Publix-in-San-Marco/i-36N469T/0/L/publixretailatlantic-L.jpg)

Permit applications were filed for a $41 million East San Marco multistory residential and retail project in San Marco---including renderings of the Publix store from the corner of Atlantic Boulevard and Mango Place.  Check out the detailed renderings and site plans after the jump!



Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2016-jul-san-marco-publix-site-plan-and-renderings
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Josh on July 01, 2016, 08:50:28 AM
The sidewalks look super narrow from the rendering. I can't make out the dimensions on the plans.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: JBTripper on July 01, 2016, 09:42:10 AM
The sidewalks look super narrow from the rendering. I can't make out the dimensions on the plans.

That's in keeping with the Hendricks Ave. "streetscape." Take an already narrow sidewalk, add bricks that fall out of place and leave holes, stick trees and light posts in the dead-ass center, and hope nobody notices as they speed past in their cars.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: brainstormer on July 01, 2016, 10:20:19 AM
This is a very exciting project that has been a long time in the making. Fingers are crossed that nothing impedes progress on this development. San Marco and the entire Southbank are going to have a number of cranes in the near future as this development, the Cancer Center, and The District begin construction.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Jason on July 05, 2016, 09:48:27 AM
BUILD IT!!!  :-)
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: vicupstate on July 06, 2016, 04:54:02 AM
http://www.postandcourier.com/20160705/160709704/publix-to-anchor-new-westedge-building-on-charleston-peninsula (http://www.postandcourier.com/20160705/160709704/publix-to-anchor-new-westedge-building-on-charleston-peninsula)

Similar Publix anchored project underway in Charleston, although this was the first word that Publix was involved.   

Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on September 04, 2016, 12:41:18 PM
10 years in the making.

When is the groundbreaking?  2016?  2017?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: marty904 on September 05, 2016, 08:24:16 AM
10 years in the making.

When is the groundbreaking?  2016?  2017?

Amen!  The "it's finally starting" announcement came like 3 months ago and there's been crickets ever since.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: FlaBoy on September 06, 2016, 09:01:04 AM
^
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: JBTripper on September 06, 2016, 11:29:04 AM
In March they said groundbreaking would be in September: http://elmplan.com/blog/2016/3/24/daily-record-september-start-for-east-san-marco-project

Like I said then, I'll believe it when they cut the ribbon.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on September 06, 2016, 11:43:29 AM
Permits have been filed, so progress is being made.....
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: marty904 on September 07, 2016, 08:01:21 AM
Permits have been filed, so progress is being made.....

Thanks for the update Lake... do you know when they were filed?  Normally permits being filed hit the Biz Journal or Daily Record - especially for high profile projects like this one.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on September 07, 2016, 08:55:56 AM
Late June/early July
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: JBTripper on September 21, 2016, 10:44:14 AM
September 21 and still no bulldozers. I am losing what little faith I had...
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on September 21, 2016, 11:41:41 AM
I wouldn't lose any sleep. It's a project that won't be complete until something like 2019 anyway. The July article said they were targeting breaking ground in August. It's only September. Sometimes it takes a few months to get all the necessary permits, contracts, approvals, etc. in place before bulldozers show up.  If there's no update or anything happening on site by the end of the year, then some big issue may have popped up.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on September 22, 2016, 08:50:59 AM
This what has plagued this site for the last 10 years. "Wait and see."

By 2019 Trump could be Prez and we could be sunk into a global recession, that is a very serious possibility. The place could sit half finished like Berkman II for another 10 years.  I mean, if your going to do it, get the damn thing going......................

You either believe in the long term viability of the project or you don't.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on September 22, 2016, 08:55:57 AM
I believe just a month or two ago is the first time plans for construction were ever filed with the city. So what took place 10 years ago doesn't apply to project's current feasibility.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on September 22, 2016, 09:10:50 AM
Food and shelter are necessities. This projects features both. In a prime location. Had they built it 10 years ago it would be making lots of money and would have been a catalyst for growth in the immediate area. If you look there now there are several interesting vacant buildings available and the area has pretty much been put "on hold" while this specific development has waited for the "right timing."
Me, I just don't get it.

Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on September 22, 2016, 09:17:43 AM
^If it were just a grocery store, it would have been built 10 years ago. The addition of multiple floors of condos (initially) and a real estate market crash killed the original project's chances of happening.  An improved economy and a new market for multifamily rentals (it's now apartments instead of condos), has resulted in this once dead project coming back alive.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Captain Zissou on September 22, 2016, 09:18:12 AM
while this specific development has waited for the "right timing."
You either believe in the long term viability of the project or you don't.

You are aware that the developers aren't just sitting on $300M waiting for a sunny day?  They have to get financing, they have to find other developers for other portions of the project who can get financing, the market could change as they are developing the design and getting permits (what happened in 06-07), banks can pull out.....  At this scale, unless someone is a billionaire looking to burn money on a passion project, you need about two dozen companies and thousands of individuals to "believe in the long term viability of the project".
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on September 22, 2016, 09:24:53 AM
I am aware.

It puts the existence of the St Johns Town Center into perspective as a modern day miracle, doesn't it?  I mean that has all been done in the last 10 years and was put in the middle of a pine forest, and is easily 50 times bigger than the San Marco Publix project.


P.S.  What was sitting on the corner of Hendricks and Atlantic BEFORE these developers got the parcel?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on September 22, 2016, 09:44:51 AM
I am aware.

It puts the existence of the St Johns Town Center into perspective as a modern day miracle, doesn't it?  I mean that has all been done in the last 10 years and was put in the middle of a pine forest, and is easily 50 times bigger than the San Marco Publix project.

Apples and oranges. SJTC is a regional mall owned by a single entity that took decades of things to fall into place and the market to grow before the first shovel showed up on the site.

Quote
P.S.  What was sitting on the corner of Hendricks and Atlantic BEFORE these developers got the parcel?
^A bank, surface parking lot and a few retail buildings lining Atlantic.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: fieldafm on September 22, 2016, 10:25:06 AM
I am aware.

It puts the existence of the St Johns Town Center into perspective as a modern day miracle, doesn't it?  I mean that has all been done in the last 10 years and was put in the middle of a pine forest, and is easily 50 times bigger than the San Marco Publix project.


P.S.  What was sitting on the corner of Hendricks and Atlantic BEFORE these developers got the parcel?

SJTC is a modern day miracle when you realize what kind of sales per square foot the retail center generates... which puts it up there with the highest performing regional retail centers in Atlanta and Orlando (something most in the CRE industry wouldn't have believed possible).

The deal that made the SJTC dated back to at least 1997 (the land was looked at for various other projects years before that). The land acquisition was completed in 2000 and the first phase of the mall was finished in 2005 (with two more phases opening in 2007 and 2014- the wide gap between phase 2 and 3 included the r/e crash, even when SJTC retailers were performing beyond expectations during the recession). The timing simply couldn't have been better for SJTC (and was aided by the beltway completion which took well over 20 years to materialize).Since the SJTC opened in 2005, it wasn't until last year that another mall was built in Florida (University Town Center in Sarasota). Even with perfect timing, it wasn't like SJTC came to market miraculously faster than other regional malls built between 1985-2005.

Quote
Had they built it 10 years ago it would be making lots of money

It never would have been built 10 years ago because the residential portion was being handled by St Joe- who completely shifted strategies during the r/e crash. The timing simply didn't work. If some other fly-by-night developer handled the residential portion... the building would have been thrown up with more than likely shoddy construction and would have been foreclosed on (like most condo buildings built b/w 2005-2007 in and around the urban core)... with condo buyers losing massive amounts of money and be stuck with units they couldn't sell because the building's foreclosure rate would have precluded most people from obtaining a mortgage on the property... all the while having to burden the extra costs of growing assessments to fix poor work.

Yeah, wouldn't have that been great?

Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on September 22, 2016, 11:29:39 AM
The land aquisition was completed in 2000 and the first phase opened in 2005. That's getting it done. Nice!

San Marco Publix parcel was purchased in 2005-06 I believe (maybe earlier) and no ground breaking yet. 

The plans were announced in the early 2000's according to multiple sources.  Well before the RE crash.

The only condo's I am aware of that suffered widespread foreclosures where 1661 Riverside. That unfortunate event created a terrific

buying opportunity for some people.   Almost everything built in Jacksonville (Berkman, Peninsula, 1661 Riverside and several I am not

aware of) had or are enduring lawsuits over shoddy workmanship. That is not unique to a RE crash. Just cheap assholes trying to make

more $$ than they were entitled to.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on September 22, 2016, 11:48:25 AM
^Across the country and locally, several projects died a decade ago:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-oct-results-of-the-boom-dead-projects

There's nothing unique about East San Marco that would have protected it from the crash. Foreclosures hit the condo market just as hard as they hit the single family home market during the crash. I had a Southside condo at a development, where most of the units were foreclosed, leading to big jump in HOA fees to make up for the money not coming in. It wasn't just a 1661 Riverside thing.

With that said, the current project being proposed is not by the same group that originally proposed East San Marco a decade ago. So the events of years ago really have nothing to do with the project working to get the necessary approvals to move forward now.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on September 22, 2016, 12:22:19 PM
"If you build it, they will come."
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on September 22, 2016, 12:26:26 PM
Rouse may disagree after their experiences with the Jax Landing, Norfolk's Waterside and Toledo's Portside Festival Marketplaces  ;)
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: fieldafm on September 22, 2016, 12:50:10 PM
The land aquisition was completed in 2000 and the first phase opened in 2005. That's getting it done. Nice!


Clearly, you've put together a lot of deals to build regional shopping malls and mixed use projects that are new to market. Generally, you don't buy the land without having done extensive due diligence, including obtaining the necessary tenant LOI's to line up a basic financing structure and rezoning the property before the land purchase. You'd never just buy land to build a mall speculatively without having most of your anchors already lined up (Dillards wasn't originally going to be one of their anchors, btw).

Notwithstanding how long it took to build the outer beltway that made the property viable for hosting a large regional shopping center in the first place (over a 20 year process), it took about 10 years to complete the first phase and almost 20 years to complete the entire project... not 5 years. The acquisition was also aided because the Skinner family owned the land. Having to assemble such a large tract of undeveloped land from multiple parties would have made the process much longer and much more expensive.

Quote
The only condo's I am aware of that suffered widespread foreclosures where 1661 Riverside.

I couldn't even rattle off in a timely fashion how many buildings locally that came online during the middle of the decade suffered from > 30% of the project in foreclosure since the crash.

If East San Marco looked like Berkman II or The Palazzo, I don't see how that would have been good for the neighborhood.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: fieldafm on September 22, 2016, 01:10:28 PM
Gosh musicman. I guess ya burnt, huh?

If you knew anything about mixed development, you would know that no one gets them done within ten years of their advertised opening dates.  Which is why they advertise them on signs and through press releases. ;)

Speaking of people that make asinine claims...
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Captain Zissou on September 22, 2016, 01:28:28 PM
I bet the Skinners sold the land for SJTC Phase 1 quite cheaply, knowing that they could charge small fortunes down the road for out-parcels, companion projects, etc...  Without the extremely cheap land, I don't know that the SJTC would have taken off.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on September 22, 2016, 02:17:28 PM
I'm not sure what there is to argue about here. The original proposal with condos was scuttled in the crash. The current incarnation has the same idea, swapping condos for apartments, but had to start all over. That's not surprising. It's actually more surprising that people have been so devoted to the mixed-use idea for so long.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: vicupstate on September 22, 2016, 03:28:36 PM
Gosh musicman. I guess ya burnt, huh?

If you knew anything about mixed development, you would know that no one gets them done within ten years of their advertised opening dates.  Which is why they advertise them on signs and through press releases. ;)

That only applies to Jacksonville though.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: JBTripper on September 22, 2016, 05:42:06 PM
This project has had a number of false starts, most recently in 2013 when they announced a new deal and a ground-breaking date... only for the whole thing to collapse when they couldn't get the financing. Now this time around they have another new developer, and the financing is supposedly squared away, and the groundbreaking was set for "late summer," and then that became "September," but next week it's going to be October.

I drive by there every day, multiple times. I've never seen so much as a survey truck or someone to clean off the sign. I'm not losing any sleep, but I don't think I'm wrong to have doubts.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: acme54321 on September 22, 2016, 09:00:41 PM
This project has had a number of false starts, most recently in 2013 when they announced a new deal and a ground-breaking date... only for the whole thing to collapse when they couldn't get the financing. Now this time around they have another new developer, and the financing is supposedly squared away, and the groundbreaking was set for "late summer," and then that became "September," but next week it's going to be October.

I drive by there every day, multiple times. I've never seen so much as a survey truck or someone to clean off the sign. I'm not losing any sleep, but I don't think I'm wrong to have doubts.

There was a bit of activity out there earlier in the year.  They were drilling samples out there for like a week.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on September 22, 2016, 09:09:14 PM
This project has had a number of false starts, most recently in 2013 when they announced a new deal and a ground-breaking date... only for the whole thing to collapse when they couldn't get the financing. Now this time around they have another new developer, and the financing is supposedly squared away, and the groundbreaking was set for "late summer," and then that became "September," but next week it's going to be October.

I drive by there every day, multiple times. I've never seen so much as a survey truck or someone to clean off the sign. I'm not losing any sleep, but I don't think I'm wrong to have doubts.
Except this time, they've actually filed plans with the city. Time will tell how this project plays out but outside of Publix still being an anchor tenant, this project is pretty much different from previous versions.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on September 22, 2016, 09:31:53 PM
The skepticism is understandable, the projects have been on and off so long. When dirt starts turning, we can get our hopes up.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on September 22, 2016, 10:14:50 PM
Careful Tacachale, you might be ridiculed on here for observing the obvious.



Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on September 22, 2016, 10:36:51 PM
The skepticism is understandable, the projects have been on and off so long. When dirt starts turning, we can get our hopes up.
Of course. I just wouldn't lose any sleep over this or any development project. If it happens it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. It's just funny to see so much skepticism for something that literally just applied for permits two months ago. Applying doesn't mean you get immediate approval:

Quote
The San Marco Publix development is moving forward, as the Atlanta-based developer applied for several permits for the long-awaited project.

The $41 million project planned for Hendricks Avenue and Atlantic Boulevard show the 33,000-square-foot Publix Supermarket on the ground floor with apartments stacked on top.

full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/07/01/east-san-marco-development-applies-for-permits-for.html
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on September 22, 2016, 10:49:07 PM
If helps, I just checked the SJWMD online permit search for this project:

Project Name:     East San Marco

Permit Number:     146109-2

Sequence Type:     Modification

Permit Type:     ERP Individual

County:     Duval

Received:     08/29/2016

Decision Date:     No Date

Expiration Date:     No Date

Description:     Redevelopment of a previously developed site at the southeast corner of Hendricks Ave and Atlantic Blvd. Site development will consist of a mixed use multi-level building, on-street parking along Atlantic and Mango Place, and two offsite parking lots along Mango Place. Utility improvements to be completed along Mango Pl, Atlantic Blvd, and Alford Pl. The project includes improvements to the existing stormwater collection system along Mango Pl.

Status:     Pending

Recommendation:     Approval

Applicant:     BR ArchCo ESM, LLC

Owner:     East San Marco, LLC

Process Status:     In Routing

https://permitting.sjrwmd.com/epermitting/jsp/Search.do?theAction=searchDetail&permitNumber=147294
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on September 22, 2016, 10:50:19 PM
Careful Tacachale, you might be ridiculed on here for observing the obvious.


That much is obvious. However I don't think it's obvious that the current project is in trouble, that the current delays are especially worrisome, that the first incarnation would have necessarily been good for the area after all the condo foreclosures, etc.

The skepticism is understandable, the projects have been on and off so long. When dirt starts turning, we can get our hopes up.
Of course. I just wouldn't lose any sleep over this or any development project. If it happens it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. It's just funny to see so much skepticism for something that literally just applied for permits two months ago. Applying doesn't mean you get immediate approval:

Quote
The San Marco Publix development is moving forward, as the Atlanta-based developer applied for several permits for the long-awaited project.

The $41 million project planned for Hendricks Avenue and Atlantic Boulevard show the 33,000-square-foot Publix Supermarket on the ground floor with apartments stacked on top.

full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/07/01/east-san-marco-development-applies-for-permits-for.html

Yeah, there's a difference between healthy skepticism/wariness and the doom and gloom. I'm not getting my hopes up (it's around the corner from me), but I don't particularly see a reason to doubt that things are moving along based on current evidence.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on September 23, 2016, 04:18:50 PM
Want to make sure you know, I want this to happen, big time!  My frustration is that this parcel was acquired so long ago and has sat empty for over 10 years. Right in the heart of a great neighborhood. As far as I know it has not even been used as a staging location for anything. 
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: dp8541 on September 23, 2016, 05:01:00 PM
Want to make sure you know, I want this to happen, big time!  My frustration is that this parcel was acquired so long ago and has sat empty for over 10 years. Right in the heart of a great neighborhood. As far as I know it has not even been used as a staging location for anything.

They used the site as a parking lot for a street festival in the Square a few years back!
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: blfair on October 03, 2016, 08:57:44 PM
If helps, I just checked the SJWMD online permit search for this project:
[snip]
https://permitting.sjrwmd.com/epermitting/jsp/Search.do?theAction=searchDetail&permitNumber=147294

The status has changed... for whatever that is worth. Several documents have been added in the last few days.

Description:     Redevelopment of a high-intensity commercial parcel.
Status:     Issued   Recommendation:     Approval
Applicant:     East San Marco, LLC   Owner:     East San Marco, LLC
Agent:        Process Status:     Issued
Wetlands:     No   
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on October 04, 2016, 02:09:24 PM
Quote
“Our partners submitted applications for permits in July. It just takes time,” said McKinley. “We expect to close and start construction later this year. Perhaps the timeline has been pushed back slightly from when we thought the start of the project would be, but it is still the same renderings. It is still 239 apartments and the anchor is still Publix. We still have a signed lease with Publix,” he said, adding that once construction commences it should take 14 to 18 months to complete.

The East San Marco project will include a 32,000-square-foot Publix, slightly larger than the one in Riverside, and a total of 13,000 square feet of retail space. The prime corner space where a restaurant is planned is 3,500 square feet with an additional 500 square feet available for outside patio dining. It is possible to add 1,500 square feet of additional space allowing for a 5,000-square-foot restaurant if needed, McKinley said. If a 5,000-square-foot restaurant goes in, that leaves room for only four or five small shops to be housed in the remaining 8,000 square feet, he said. “It’s not a ton of retail. I wish I had more,” said McKinley.

Full article: http://residentnews.net/2016/10/03/regency-reps-dispel-rumors-east-san-marco/
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: rbarksdale332 on October 19, 2016, 02:33:54 PM
This reply makes me happy because I noticed the Publix sign is no longer up there and my family started to worry. We have lived in the area for 20 years and it would make us so happy to have one right down the street!
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: FlaBoy on October 19, 2016, 02:58:58 PM
 8) Great news. Can't wait until they get some shovels in that ground!
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on November 29, 2016, 10:44:08 AM
Another update:

Quote
Permits for apartment, retail developments

The St. Johns River Water Management District has either issued permits or filed a notice of intent to do so to:


• International Management Co. LLC for a permit extension for the Northpoint Village shopping center on 16.81 acres at Yellow Bluff and New Berlin roads.

• Harmony Farms of Jacksonville LLC for Costco Wholesale on 43.72 acres at Parramore and Collins roads in Southwest Jacksonville. It is an almost 153,000-square-foot structure.

• St. Vincent’s Health Systems Inc. for St. Vincent’s HealthCare at 2001 County Road 210 in St. Johns County for a medical office building.

• East San Marco LLC for the East San Marco residential and retail project on 3.25 acres at Hendricks Avenue and Atlantic Boulevard.

• Two outparcels at Kernan and Atlantic boulevards for Property Management Support Inc. at the Atlantic North shopping center on 1.97 acres. Each building is 7,500 square feet.

• Lakeview at River City apartments at 12900 Broxton Bay Drive for RCM Acquisition LLC.

• Wawa at Blanding Boulevard and Filmore Street in Clay County for property owner 680 Blanding Blvd. LLC on 4.26 acres.

• West Kernan Retail at Beach and Kernan boulevards for West Kernan Loan Acquisition LLC on 6.84 acres. The application is for two access driveways and a turn lane.

• River City Rehab Facility, a commercial skilled nursing facility, at 15480 Max Leggett Parkway for Ramco Parkway LLC on 9.66 acres.

• PDQ Jacksonville at The Crossing at Town Center for H Squared Restaurant Partner LLC on 1.64 acres.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=548821
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: acme54321 on November 29, 2016, 12:00:27 PM
Good news!  I think a lot of people (myself included) are still in believe it when see it mode  ;D
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on November 29, 2016, 12:09:07 PM
I've been in the "believe it" mode, barring an economic collapse. It's been moving through permitting for a few months. You have to spend a little money to advance through permitting and if you're committed to getting that far, you're doing it. At this stage, you start weeding out the pretenders.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on November 29, 2016, 12:46:22 PM
Good to hear it's moving along. Don't count out that economic collapse, though.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: RattlerGator on November 30, 2016, 10:06:03 AM
Good to hear it's moving along. Don't count out that economic collapse, though.

Don't hold your breath, Tacachale:

[1]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/28/trump-us-markets-investment-tax-reform-job-creation

Donald Trump’s victory in the US presidential election surprised most of the world. But the president-elect is not finished defying expectations. Contrary to the predictions of many experts, stock markets have rallied strongly since his victory, with the three major US indices reaching record highs while the dollar has soared. Explaining these unexpected responses could provide a glimpse of what the next few months have in store for markets.

[2]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/11/29/four-reasons-why-our-economy-will-thrive-under-president-trump.html

Voters who supported Hillary Clinton for president, including me, were shocked by the election results on Nov 8. But as we deal emotionally with the surprise, we should follow the lead of the initially jumpy financial markets and shift from doom and gloom to optimism.

Here’s why:

1. Both houses of Congress and President-elect Donald Trump will be pro-business.
2. New infrastructure investment will create jobs and fuel growth.
3. Many rules that hurt business growth will vanish.
4. Trump won’t do anything to sabotage economic growth.

President Harry Truman had a sign in the Oval Office that read “The buck stops here.” On Jan. 20, Trump shifts from outside critic to the most important leader in the world. He will succeed only if he has presidential judgment and understands that his every action and utterance is noticed, magnified and has consequences.

Take his acceptance speech as an example. President-elect Trump’s gracious and unifying victory speech in the early-morning hours of Nov. 9 calmed and reversed the worldwide, abrupt fall in stock market prices.

Trump has every opportunity to grow our economy through policies supporting economic growth. The stock market can and will be the real-time measure of his economic success.


* * *

I know the leftwing has a bad case of the sadz an ever'thang but we're extremely fortunate the adults are back in charge and feelings no longer drive the political and economic train. If you just take a step back and look at it objectively, ALL OF THIS is extremely good news for Northeast Florida, in general, and Jacksonville in particular, but most especially for the downtown core and our emerging, spread out districts in the core.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on November 30, 2016, 10:22:44 AM
Good to hear it's moving along. Don't count out that economic collapse, though.

Don't hold your breath, Tacachale:

[1]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/28/trump-us-markets-investment-tax-reform-job-creation

Donald Trump’s victory in the US presidential election surprised most of the world. But the president-elect is not finished defying expectations. Contrary to the predictions of many experts, stock markets have rallied strongly since his victory, with the three major US indices reaching record highs while the dollar has soared. Explaining these unexpected responses could provide a glimpse of what the next few months have in store for markets.

[2]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/11/29/four-reasons-why-our-economy-will-thrive-under-president-trump.html

Voters who supported Hillary Clinton for president, including me, were shocked by the election results on Nov 8. But as we deal emotionally with the surprise, we should follow the lead of the initially jumpy financial markets and shift from doom and gloom to optimism.

Here’s why:

1. Both houses of Congress and President-elect Donald Trump will be pro-business.
2. New infrastructure investment will create jobs and fuel growth.
3. Many rules that hurt business growth will vanish.
4. Trump won’t do anything to sabotage economic growth.

President Harry Truman had a sign in the Oval Office that read “The buck stops here.” On Jan. 20, Trump shifts from outside critic to the most important leader in the world. He will succeed only if he has presidential judgment and understands that his every action and utterance is noticed, magnified and has consequences.

Take his acceptance speech as an example. President-elect Trump’s gracious and unifying victory speech in the early-morning hours of Nov. 9 calmed and reversed the worldwide, abrupt fall in stock market prices.

Trump has every opportunity to grow our economy through policies supporting economic growth. The stock market can and will be the real-time measure of his economic success.


* * *

I know the leftwing has a bad case of the sadz an ever'thang but we're extremely fortunate the adults are back in charge and feelings no longer drive the political and economic train. If you just take a step back and look at it objectively, ALL OF THIS is extremely good news for Northeast Florida, in general, and Jacksonville in particular, but most especially for the downtown core and our emerging, spread out districts in the core.

Sorry, but Trump's not president of the economy.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Adam White on November 30, 2016, 10:31:14 AM
Good to hear it's moving along. Don't count out that economic collapse, though.

Don't hold your breath, Tacachale:

[1]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/28/trump-us-markets-investment-tax-reform-job-creation

Donald Trump’s victory in the US presidential election surprised most of the world. But the president-elect is not finished defying expectations. Contrary to the predictions of many experts, stock markets have rallied strongly since his victory, with the three major US indices reaching record highs while the dollar has soared. Explaining these unexpected responses could provide a glimpse of what the next few months have in store for markets.

[2]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/11/29/four-reasons-why-our-economy-will-thrive-under-president-trump.html

Voters who supported Hillary Clinton for president, including me, were shocked by the election results on Nov 8. But as we deal emotionally with the surprise, we should follow the lead of the initially jumpy financial markets and shift from doom and gloom to optimism.

Here’s why:

1. Both houses of Congress and President-elect Donald Trump will be pro-business.
2. New infrastructure investment will create jobs and fuel growth.
3. Many rules that hurt business growth will vanish.
4. Trump won’t do anything to sabotage economic growth.

President Harry Truman had a sign in the Oval Office that read “The buck stops here.” On Jan. 20, Trump shifts from outside critic to the most important leader in the world. He will succeed only if he has presidential judgment and understands that his every action and utterance is noticed, magnified and has consequences.

Take his acceptance speech as an example. President-elect Trump’s gracious and unifying victory speech in the early-morning hours of Nov. 9 calmed and reversed the worldwide, abrupt fall in stock market prices.

Trump has every opportunity to grow our economy through policies supporting economic growth. The stock market can and will be the real-time measure of his economic success.


* * *

I know the leftwing has a bad case of the sadz an ever'thang but we're extremely fortunate the adults are back in charge and feelings no longer drive the political and economic train. If you just take a step back and look at it objectively, ALL OF THIS is extremely good news for Northeast Florida, in general, and Jacksonville in particular, but most especially for the downtown core and our emerging, spread out districts in the core.

Sorry, but Trump's not president of the economy.

Hell, he's not even President of the USA. All of this is meaningless at this point - who knows what's going to happen once he becomes President. Right now, the markets are reacting based on speculation.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on November 30, 2016, 11:04:30 AM
No president controls the economy, but you can't rule out economic downturns and recessions. The sole reason I mentioned it is because that's literally what happened to the last Publix project. It was not intended to be a comment on Trump. Though it's interesting how Trump fans read the Dear Leader, and insults to his dignity, into everything.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Adam White on November 30, 2016, 11:23:30 AM
No president controls the economy, but you can't rule out economic downturns and recessions. The sole reason I mentioned it is because that's literally what happened to the last Publix project. It was not intended to be a comment on Trump. Though it's interesting how Trump fans read the Dear Leader, and insults to his dignity, into everything.

There's a lot of that going around now, sadly. It's not all one-sided, though.

I think one of the surest indicators to the state of the economy is the number of cranes you see and the amount of construction you hear when you're in a city.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on December 01, 2016, 10:24:38 AM
The last crane in Downtown (North Bank) was alongside the Berkmann II. Correct?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on December 01, 2016, 11:05:27 AM
^No. The Duval County Courthouse.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/890994659_mj3fW-M.jpg)
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Adam White on December 01, 2016, 11:10:07 AM
^No. The Duval County Courthouse.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/890994659_mj3fW-M.jpg)

Lovely.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on December 01, 2016, 04:23:48 PM
Ah the site of construction cranes, why do we love them so?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on December 01, 2016, 04:27:14 PM
There was activity there today: local attorneys using it for a parking lot!
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Adam White on December 30, 2016, 11:20:35 AM
That is so ugly.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on December 30, 2016, 11:29:10 AM
Finally. Still not getting my hopes up until the dirt's turning.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Adam White on December 30, 2016, 11:35:52 AM
Finally. Still not getting my hopes up until the dirt's turning.

Yes, I suppose I probably am focusing on the wrong thing. The aesthetics aren't really as important as the development. It will be a great addition if and when it arrives.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on December 30, 2016, 12:13:18 PM
Finally. Still not getting my hopes up until the dirt's turning.

Yes, I suppose I probably am focusing on the wrong thing. The aesthetics aren't really as important as the development. It will be a great addition if and when it arrives.

At this stage in Jax history, where urban infill is only just starting to come back, I've made the decision to care less about facades than form. I'd rather have an ugly building that's in the urban scale and meets ground-level needs, than a beautiful strip mall. We've had a lot of things that look fine as far as the general aesthetics go, but don't address the basic needs of a walkable, urban area. In this development, we're getting a development that fills basic needs (grocery store, more residential, and infill at a major intersection), without a lot of the downsides we got in, say, Brooklyn Station or the Riverside Publix. There are no big surface lots and there's street interaction on the major street fronts.

That said, I agree that the aesthetics are... underwhelming. I really don't understand local developers' love affair with beige stucco. At the same time, to be fair this project did make more of an effort to fit with its surroundings than some other similar developments in other places. There was always going to be pushback from people who don't like the scale of the development and/or would nitpick any design they chose. I'm glad that apparently they've gotten the bones right. My hope is that each one of these that shows up is better than the last one, just as this is a step up from the (current) Brooklyn developments.

If it actually comes together, of course ;)
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: FlaBoy on December 30, 2016, 02:22:06 PM
It looks fine.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Adam White on December 30, 2016, 02:27:22 PM
It looks fine.

The Golden Girls called - they want their muumuus back.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxjaguar on December 30, 2016, 02:43:58 PM
Call me crazy, but I don't think it looks that bad for a beige stucco building... Could definitely be worse. That example building they show in Mass looks pretty nifty, but it's just stucco painted a different color with modern architecture vs the "Spanish", or whatever you call it, architecture we're getting. I think it'll blend nicely with what's in San Marco currently. If it was more artsy in its design people would be complaining it didn't fit the look of the historic district. Design is pretty much always a lose, lose. I'm curious what Murder me Rachel would've done :P
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on December 30, 2016, 02:47:28 PM
It looks fine to me. It won't win any design awards but it could be a lot worse.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Adam White on December 30, 2016, 03:59:43 PM
Call me crazy, but I don't think it looks that bad for a beige stucco building... Could definitely be worse.

You're right. The issue for me is that it's another beige stucco building in that style. It's utterly uninspiring. The style is inherently ugly. But, baby steps.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: remc86007 on December 30, 2016, 06:08:24 PM
I think the design is fine for the area. If they pushed the envelope, especially in San Marco, they would get resistance from the residents. Downtown and Brooklyn are where I hope developers really push the design envelope.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on December 30, 2016, 06:12:04 PM
^^^ Great post
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Adam White on December 30, 2016, 06:20:07 PM
I think the design is fine for the area. If they pushed the envelope, especially in San Marco, they would get resistance from the residents. Downtown and Brooklyn are where I hope developers really push the design envelope.

I see what you mean, but I'm not talking about pushing any envelopes. I'm just talking about something a bit nicer and less generic (and ugly). But at least it's not the Duval County Courthouse...
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: KenFSU on December 30, 2016, 07:45:26 PM
I'm fine with the design, but for the love of God, no more palm trees.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: remc86007 on December 30, 2016, 09:28:53 PM
I'm fine with the design, but for the love of God, no more palm trees.

But how would travelers remember they are in Florida?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Bativac on December 31, 2016, 03:30:18 AM
Looks okay. Better than a vacant lot. But Archco does not own the property yet and the project is contingent on their purchasing the property, so...

I would love to see something built on the site. But "work will begin on X" dates have come and gone (as have site plans and renderings) so I won't get my hopes up. Hope I'm surprised!
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on January 01, 2017, 10:57:41 AM
QUOTE:

"Jason Jacobson, regional partner of developer ArchCo Residential LLC, said this month that work probably will begin about April, with completion in about two years.

It’s later than expected, but with permits in hand, the work can begin.

The reason for the wait was a combination of current construction market conditions and a difficult financing environment, Jacobson said.

BR ArchCo ESM LLC, a venture of Bluerock Residential Group REIT and Atlanta-based ArchCo Residential LLC, intends to buy the 4.3 acres for the development from Jacksonville-based Regency Centers Corp. after the building permits are issued.

Jacobson said previously if all goes as planned, his group will buy the property in January.

The city issued a site-work permit Nov. 29 for tree removal. Jacobson said the work probably won’t start until the spring."


So if every domino falls perfectly into place, the first shoppers will pull butter eggs and milk off the shelves in Summer of 2019.

If there are unexpected delays who knows..........  Or another downturn in the economy?  Hard to believe the sign at corner of Atlantic and Hendricks has been there 10 years already.  IKEA was announced last year and will be finished before this.

Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Bativac on January 02, 2017, 12:35:08 AM
QUOTE:

"Jason Jacobson, regional partner of developer ArchCo Residential LLC, said this month that work probably will begin about April, with completion in about two years.

It’s later than expected, but with permits in hand, the work can begin.

The reason for the wait was a combination of current construction market conditions and a difficult financing environment, Jacobson said.

BR ArchCo ESM LLC, a venture of Bluerock Residential Group REIT and Atlanta-based ArchCo Residential LLC, intends to buy the 4.3 acres for the development from Jacksonville-based Regency Centers Corp. after the building permits are issued.

Jacobson said previously if all goes as planned, his group will buy the property in January.

The city issued a site-work permit Nov. 29 for tree removal. Jacobson said the work probably won’t start until the spring."


So if every domino falls perfectly into place, the first shoppers will pull butter eggs and milk off the shelves in Summer of 2019.

If there are unexpected delays who knows..........  Or another downturn in the economy?  Hard to believe the sign at corner of Atlantic and Hendricks has been there 10 years already.  IKEA was announced last year and will be finished before this.

Yeah. IKEA doesn't play when it comes to building new stores. I've been in Burbank, CA for a little while now, and IKEA is building a GIGANTIC new store (half a million SF) and have sold the old IKEA - which is still fully open - to a developer who is putting in apartments.

But the San Marco Publix..... I'll believe it when I'm standing in the middle of it!
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: RattlerGator on January 02, 2017, 07:06:07 AM
No more palm trees ? ? ? SMDH.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 02, 2017, 07:30:49 AM
IKEA also doesn't put condos on top of their stores. If East San Marco would have only been a Publix, it would have opened a decade ago. It's always been the mixed use component that has delayed things.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on January 02, 2017, 03:27:13 PM
Well its a nice project, hope they can start construction on time
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Rynjny on January 04, 2017, 05:34:07 PM
anybody know the leasing phone number/info for this?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: E_Dubya on January 04, 2017, 05:53:57 PM
anybody know the leasing phone number/info for this?

I'm not sure if Patrick McKinley is still the leasing agent for the NE Florida region at Regency Centers, but the contact number for that leasing department is 904 598 7468.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Rynjny on January 04, 2017, 07:04:10 PM
anybody know the leasing phone number/info for this?

I'm not sure if Patrick McKinley is still the leasing agent for the NE Florida region at Regency Centers, but the contact number for that leasing department is 904 598 7468.

Thank you
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: ProjectMaximus on January 04, 2017, 09:16:09 PM
Chinese supermarket, Ryan, Chinese supermarket  ;)
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Rynjny on January 04, 2017, 09:42:54 PM
Chinese supermarket, Ryan, Chinese supermarket  ;)

Haha..I got a friend who's interested in opening an I-CE-NY franchise and I think San Marco is the perfect location for it. oh by the way have you heard that Kung Fu Tea is opening shop in Jacksonville?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: ProjectMaximus on January 05, 2017, 12:21:59 AM
 :o :o :o :o :o
WHERE?!?! That is awesome. Bring it all...ICE, Kung Fu, and maybe Quickly too!
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: JaxJersey-licious on February 20, 2017, 11:50:07 AM
May April Fools Day 2017 be known as the ultimate prank to all the San Marco doubters and naysayers!!

http://residentnews.net/2017/02/02/east-san-marco-slated-break-ground-april/
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Captain Zissou on February 20, 2017, 12:08:24 PM
Or they announce it was all a hoax and complete the longest troll in Jacksonville development history.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: JaxJersey-licious on February 20, 2017, 12:26:11 PM
Or they announce it was all a hoax and complete the longest troll in Jacksonville development history.

Look, a guy can fucking dream, OK?  ;)
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: FlaBoy on February 20, 2017, 09:52:31 PM
Is there public parking in the garage planned?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on February 20, 2017, 11:12:43 PM
Is there public parking in the garage planned?

lol, did you read the piece? Yes, there's parking for the retail.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: KenFSU on February 20, 2017, 11:42:32 PM
May April Fools Day 2017 be known as the ultimate prank to all the San Marco doubters and naysayers!!

http://residentnews.net/2017/02/02/east-san-marco-slated-break-ground-april/

2016-2017 genuinely feels like we're just lining up long-standing albatross after albatross and knocking them to the ground.

Jacksonville is too small of a market for IKEA
Amazon isn't interested in Jacksonville
We'll never have a decent amphitheater in Jacksonville
The pension crisis is unsolveable
Jacksonville will never have a decent HRO
There isn't a market for more residential downtown
We'll never see movement on the Laura Street Trio
East San Marco will never break ground

Next up:
The Shipyards will never be redeveloped
Berkman II will remain in limbo forever
Hemming Park is unsalvageable
The Skyway connects nothing to nothing

Ultimate litmus test:
The Jags will never win the Super Bowl

Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on February 21, 2017, 06:18:35 PM
The skyway?? Jags probably win the SB before the Skyway connects to anything.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Bativac on February 21, 2017, 09:54:47 PM
Another press release! I still have the one bookmarked that said the groundbreaking would be Summer 2016! Then it was September 2016. According to this latest article, the developer still hasn't bought the property. Sounds like there's still a financing issue.

It's kind of like my house in St Nicholas, which has been under contract since November. Every week we're told "closing is next week!" Finally we had to cut the buyer loose this last week when it was clear they couldn't get financing and were just stalling.

Sincerely hope this thing gets built but... I'll believe it when I'm buying groceries.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Captain Zissou on March 27, 2017, 02:08:05 PM
5 Days, Project Maximus.  We tailgating the ground breaking?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: blfair on March 30, 2017, 11:18:40 AM
So if there's really a groundbreaking between today and Saturday -- wouldn't we have heard about it -- wouldn't the media have an invite by now?

Is this really just a cruel April fool's day joke? My heart can't take it...
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: martt12 on March 30, 2017, 11:28:12 AM
It's absolutely an April Fools joke.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Captain Zissou on March 30, 2017, 12:48:19 PM
I blame Max.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: ProjectMaximus on March 30, 2017, 03:59:29 PM
I say we all come together for a popup groundbreaking. I'll bring a shovel...
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Jagsdrew on March 30, 2017, 04:39:06 PM
This is being built right by house so I'll alert if I see a large gathering of people and not the usual San Marco stray cats that gather there for social hour.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: JBTripper on March 31, 2017, 03:40:18 PM
I'm giving them until Monday.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Bativac on March 31, 2017, 03:59:18 PM
Wait, are you telling me it's possible the groundbreaking isn't happening?!

My house hasn't sold yet either. Taking bets on which one happens first, the home sale or the Publix groundbreaking
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: sanmarcomatt on April 01, 2017, 06:47:11 PM
maybe another 10 years?

http://residentnews.net/2017/04/01/no-go-east-san-marco/
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jcjohnpaint on April 01, 2017, 09:00:19 PM
build the stinkin publix and be done with it
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on April 01, 2017, 09:50:02 PM
Damn.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: acme54321 on April 01, 2017, 10:29:29 PM
April fools!  Construction starts tomorrow!
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: remc86007 on April 01, 2017, 10:32:12 PM
Are they worried about the units coming online at the same time as the Broadstone? I don't understand the constant delays. It seems like a profitable investment. Perhaps the developer is concerned that contractor costs are going to increase quickly as a result of the lack of workers and the heavy demand for construction around the city?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 01, 2017, 11:06:50 PM
I can't imagine anyone being worried about Broadstone. That's a different product and construction type.  I suspect there are more profitble investment opportunities out there than putting a parking garage and multiple floors of residential on top of a Publix in Jacksonville, FL.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 01, 2017, 11:10:25 PM
build the stinkin publix and be done with it
Pretty much.  If the numbers are too risky for this type of product at that location, it may be time to try something else. Perhaps, straight retail, straight residential or mixed use with retail and residential in completely separate buildings and without a significant sized parking garage, if possible. However, I guess the amount of money already invested in the site may be playing a significant role in the outcome.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Bativac on April 02, 2017, 12:57:53 PM
Straight from the article, "According to Jacksonville Council President Lori Boyer, who represents District 5, ArchCo Residential of Atlanta, primary developer of the project, “declined to move forward with the purchase,” during its closing March 13." The developer just decided not to purchase the property but that was three weeks ago. Which means the constant reassurances that building is going to happen are just typical press releases  issued by the current owner, Regency Centers, trying to keep some kind of heat on the property.

I grew up around the corner from this plot of land and vividly remember the Bank, the florist, and the gas station that sat on or near the corner. I desperately want to see something go in there. ANYTHING at this point. I was still in college when the bank was torn down and the sign went up.

Numerous projects like this where there's a full tear down and then....nothing... are part of what convinced my wife and I to finally leave Jacksonville. I hope someone can get something happening on the site one of these days.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxnyc79 on April 02, 2017, 01:39:32 PM
Is the issue a stacked mixed-use development at this particular location?  Given the success?? of the Riverside Avenue projects, perhaps not. 

Is it that the ground floor component is a grocery store?  Well, that model has worked very well in many other cities and is seen as a major source of convenience for residents; however, I've generally seen those projects include Whole Foods or Fresh Market or some other health and organically-centered grocer. 

Is the land-use intensity too extreme for this location?  I mean, the Square is pretty much a single-level strip of shops packed around a statuary, and much of the surrounding residential are single family homes with relatively sprawling lots for an in-town neighborhood.  But that shouldn't matter for future tenants - more an issue for existing neighborhood residents/homeowners.

Is there concern that the project won't pull enough of the flow of stacked-living enthusiasts from places like Gate Parkway, the Beaches, and perhaps Brooklyn?  It's only 200 or so units.

Is REIT Financing slackening? 
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on April 02, 2017, 01:51:59 PM
If it was a Publix only it would have been built years ago. I was once told that the problem is that there's too much invested in the property for a Publix to make a return by itself without the condos, and there's not enough space to include both Publix and residential and parking unless it's multi-story.

It sounds like it's the risk that got them this time. Mixed use projects like this have only come to Jax in the last few years, and there are still only a few examples to judge success by. It really sucks for those of us in the neighborhood. San Marco still qualifies as a food desert for lack of a grocery store.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2017, 02:01:08 PM
Is the issue a stacked mixed-use development at this particular location?  Given the success?? of the Riverside Avenue projects, perhaps not.

There's only one development in Brooklyn with residential over retail. That's 220 Riverside and I'm pretty sure it recieved some tax breaks/incentives to make the numbers work. I don't believe East San Marco includes public subsidies and it's much more complex in that it includes a ton of more retail and a significantly sized multi-story parking structure.

Quote
Is it that the ground floor component is a grocery store?  Well, that model has worked very well in many other cities and is seen as a major source of convenience for residents; however, I've generally seen those projects include Whole Foods or Fresh Market or some other health and organically-centered grocer.

If it was a single level strip center without a parking garage, like Riverside's Publix, it would have been built a decade ago.  It's hard to compare this to other peer cities because most of our peer cities are far ahead of us in regards to urban infill development.  If the numbers are iffy in San Marco, they probably work in a similiar city like Nashville or Charlotte. Thus, if I'm investing with my own money, my priority would be the project that provides me with more return.

Quote
Is the land-use intensity too extreme for this location?  I mean, the Square is pretty much a single-level strip of shops packed around a statuary, and much of the surrounding residential are single family homes with relatively sprawling lots for an in-town neighborhood.  But that shouldn't matter for future tenants - more an issue for existing neighborhood residents/homeowners.

I don't know the details of this project, but I'm sure it deals with risks involved around financing.  Whatever, the number was, it appears the developer or whoever was providing them with financing, decided the terms of the current deal wasn't worth it.

Quote
Is there concern that the project won't pull enough of the flow of stacked-living enthusiasts from places like Gate Parkway, the Beaches, and perhaps Brooklyn?  It's only 200 or so units.

Is REIT Financing slackening?

I doubt any of these are reasons for the developer walking away from the deal that was on the table.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2017, 02:04:20 PM
If it was a Publix only it would have been built years ago. I was once told that the problem is that there's too much invested in the property for a Publix to make a return by itself without the condos, and there's not enough space to include both Publix and residential and parking unless it's multi-story.

I can see this. This project is similiar to Berkman II in that both were started right before the 2000s real estate cash.  If the deal involves an attempt to try to recoup the initial investment from that era of crazy real estate values, then it's no surprise the numbers may not have worked out for the best, in the end.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxnyc79 on April 02, 2017, 02:38:38 PM
Rates rising, higher ROIs demanded...new underwriting standards from the REIT partner issued...more project delays...
Not enough owners of capital taking a chance on Jax - is Jax so fundamentally different than a Charleston or Nashville or Greenville, where these projects appear to have worked
Perhaps an Urban Jax Infill REIT - with a special incentives partnership with the COJ and State - is this allowed?  is this in existence?  lol
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2017, 08:40:06 PM
If this project is trying to also recoup real estate bubble investment numbers, I'd argue this could be a special case.  Let's see how some of the other developments turn out before assuming East San Marco defines Jax's market.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 02, 2017, 09:03:14 PM
Is the land-use intensity too extreme for this location?

Or is it not intense enough? If they were allowed to add another 100 units would it be more feasible? The neighborhood certainly would have concerns but maybe all the delays are enough to get a higher density/higher construction approved...
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 02, 2017, 09:05:00 PM
^Maybe a good project for fundrise?  8) Numbers might still not work though.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: vicupstate on April 02, 2017, 09:12:13 PM
Quote
is Jax so fundamentally different than a Charleston or Nashville or Greenville, where these projects appear to have worked

I would say those other markets are dramatically different, especially the first two.

Interestingly a stand alone Bi-Lo in Midtown Charleston will be demolished and replaced with a multi-story mixed use project with a grocer on the ground floor.  The design is not out yet, but it sounds a lot like East San Marco.

I think one thing that hurts this project is that there is NO surface parking at all, IIRC. 

The Publix in DT Greenville has residential above it but does have 'quasi' surface parking, as you drive onto the top level of a two level garage to access the store.

Harris Teeter is about to start a project in Greenville in a neighborhood very close to DT. It has additional retail, apartments and a garage but they are separated from the grocer and there is some surface parking for HT as well.
 
http://www.crhrealestate.com/northpointe (http://www.crhrealestate.com/northpointe)     
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2017, 09:16:17 PM
^Maybe a good project for fundrise?  8) Numbers might still not work though.

No way. If I were a fundrise investor, I'd want no part of it.  If the options were apples to apples, I'd rather risk my investment money on a similar project in NYC, Chicago, San Francisco or Miami.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2017, 09:20:03 PM
Too bad there's no fixed rapid transit system serving the area.  This is a great example of a project where the numbers would work if they didn't have to build such a massive parking structure to accommodate the needed amount of retail and residential units.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on April 02, 2017, 10:09:57 PM
100% not surprised. Been saying this was never going to happen and got laughed at ................................

Who actually owns it? Regency Centers? Why don't they offer it up for sale? 

I feel sorry for the folks who own in the vicinity and have been waiting to "cash out" once groundbreaking began.  As things stand TODAY, who knows when anything will ever be done with this site. The owner has turned it into a disaster without ever doing anything to it. That's pretty hard to do, especially in the middle of one of Jax's best neighborhoods.

Put a stand alone Trader Joe's there and it becomes the hottest location in SM.

Damn, over 4 acres at that site and they can't make it work???
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: JaxJersey-licious on April 02, 2017, 10:30:47 PM
This latest setback to East San Marco is the most maddening to me. Why would a company that apparently spent all this money and effort on design and engineering go through neighborhood and environmental reviews studied and gathered data on the areas demos etc. to pull the permits and just back out of it completely after several months? Is this company over-leveraged? What could have possibly spooked them this year to have them just up and renege on such a high profile project?

And what about Regency Centers holding on to this parcel? If ArchCo feel the need to chicken out of it's grand plans what makes them feel that they will get any significant return on their investment now if they haven't over the last 10 years? I just wish they'd cut bait, sell it at a loss, write it off Trump-style and give someone else the opportunity to develop it into something.

I need to lie down
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: JBTripper on April 02, 2017, 10:43:34 PM
I don't understand how a 300-unit apartment building with no grocery store ONE MILE from this location is easier to get done than a 239-unit apartment building with a grocery store, in a neighborhood WITH NO GROCERY STORE. How can one not see the grocery store as a risk mitigator?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Bativac on April 02, 2017, 10:45:43 PM
[...]what about Regency Centers holding on to this parcel? If ArchCo feel the need to chicken out of it's grand plans what makes them feel that they will get any significant return on their investment now if they haven't over the last 10 years? I just wish they'd cut bait, sell it at a loss, write it off Trump-style and give someone else the opportunity to develop it into something.

Yeah - at this point, having sat on this thing for a decade plus, it does not seem to make sense to continue to sit on it in hopes of recouping the too-much-money that was probably spent on it to begin with. Sell it, write off the loss, and let something happen. There are grocery stores not too far from there (we always used either the Publix at Univ and Atlantic or the Winn-Dixie at Univ and San Jose) so whatever goes up doesn't have to be a full on grocery. Just something!

My oldest friend is a civil engineer born and raised in San Marco and left for Greenville a decade ago with no regrets. He talks of several projects that have had Jax in the running but ended up in Charleston or Greenville or someplace similar. Once the cities are compared there's, well, no comparison, as he puts it.

I don't know enough about real estate or planning or anything to speak to that. All I know is it's a shame to have yet another lot sitting vacant in Jacksonville.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: FlaBoy on April 03, 2017, 08:42:06 AM
Were the above units apartments or condos?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on April 03, 2017, 10:53:28 AM
^Apartments in this iteration.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on April 03, 2017, 11:11:27 AM
100% not surprised. Been saying this was never going to happen and got laughed at ................................

Who actually owns it? Regency Centers? Why don't they offer it up for sale? 

I feel sorry for the folks who own in the vicinity and have been waiting to "cash out" once groundbreaking began.  As things stand TODAY, who knows when anything will ever be done with this site. The owner has turned it into a disaster without ever doing anything to it. That's pretty hard to do, especially in the middle of one of Jax's best neighborhoods.

Put a stand alone Trader Joe's there and it becomes the hottest location in SM.

Damn, over 4 acres at that site and they can't make it work???

Well, the reason you gave for saying it wouldn't happen (that the developer hadn't closed on the property yet) wasn't related to what actually transpired. They were never going to close until March or April anyway.

As the article says, Regency owns the property now. ArchCo and Blue Rock were supposed to purchase the land from them, and then sell back the retail element. Presumably, that's how Regency was going to make back their money from the original purchase of the property at the height of the market. They would never make back their money if they just sold to another developer now. And I imagine they still believe their project would be lucrative as they've been pushing it through several incarnations for 10 years.

I don't understand how a 300-unit apartment building with no grocery store ONE MILE from this location is easier to get done than a 239-unit apartment building with a grocery store, in a neighborhood WITH NO GROCERY STORE. How can one not see the grocery store as a risk mitigator?

It's unlikely the grocery store is the thing that held it up. As Lake said above, it's probably the massive parking garage in the middle that serves both the apartments and the retail.

This latest setback to East San Marco is the most maddening to me. Why would a company that apparently spent all this money and effort on design and engineering go through neighborhood and environmental reviews studied and gathered data on the areas demos etc. to pull the permits and just back out of it completely after several months? Is this company over-leveraged? What could have possibly spooked them this year to have them just up and renege on such a high profile project?

And what about Regency Centers holding on to this parcel? If ArchCo feel the need to chicken out of it's grand plans what makes them feel that they will get any significant return on their investment now if they haven't over the last 10 years? I just wish they'd cut bait, sell it at a loss, write it off Trump-style and give someone else the opportunity to develop it into something.

I need to lie down

Unfortunately, I think you may be right - Regency doesn't bait now, we'll be waiting for some time for anything else to come along. They haven't varied much from their original vision of the plan for 10 straight years, and it's had several false starts in that amount of time.

However, at this point I won't be happy with just "something" there. There's enough going on in the rest of San Marco for that. At this point we need a strong development at that space whatever it is.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Jim on April 03, 2017, 01:15:45 PM

 At this point we need a strong development at that space whatever it is.

Do we though? More fucking traffic for an area that already sees regular back up and gridlock.  The slow-transformation of San Marco and Riverside/Brooklyn into Atlanta-lite is going to kill everything that makes those areas great.
Which is why the city has started getting serious about expanding public transportation options in the core and near core.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on April 03, 2017, 01:19:04 PM

 At this point we need a strong development at that space whatever it is.

Do we though? More fucking traffic for an area that already sees regular back up and gridlock.  The slow-transformation of San Marco and Riverside/Brooklyn into Atlanta-lite is going to kill everything that makes those areas great.

Yes, it's an important corner in the neighborhood and it needs a really strong development there. Or perhaps we should just focus on weak developments in Jacksonville to separate us from cities like Atlanta.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxjags on April 03, 2017, 01:27:12 PM

 At this point we need a strong development at that space whatever it is.

Do we though? More fucking traffic for an area that already sees regular back up and gridlock.  The slow-transformation of San Marco and Riverside/Brooklyn into Atlanta-lite is going to kill everything that makes those areas great.

Having lived in ATL and just last week taking Riverside Ave from Brooklyn to Avondale, it struck me that Riverside Ave is becoming Peachtree Road, albeit on a much different scale. To bad for MMR.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: JBTripper on April 03, 2017, 03:45:32 PM

 At this point we need a strong development at that space whatever it is.

Do we though? More fucking traffic for an area that already sees regular back up and gridlock.  The slow-transformation of San Marco and Riverside/Brooklyn into Atlanta-lite is going to kill everything that makes those areas great.

It would take about 50 East San Marcos to even come close to the traffic problem that Atlanta has. It's not even comparable.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: edjax on April 03, 2017, 05:01:47 PM
Please. Not another thread hijackd by the traffic cops.  Thanks. We know. We know.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxlongtimer on April 03, 2017, 07:20:10 PM
Let's do a little math based on numbers below from Jacksonville.com:

Quote
Construction costs are about $65 million, Jacobson said, for the main building with 239 apartments and 46,000 square feet of retail, along with 25 to 30 townhouses on the next block behind Wells-Fargo. Other costs, including design and financing, push it past $80 million.

It's not clear how much, past the $80 million, costs would rise to or if such amount includes capitalized carrying costs including construction interest.  Just using the $80 million, and allocating about $9 million to the retail square footage shown, leaves $71 million for no more than 269 living units (239 apartments + up to 30 townhouse units).  This averages about $264,000 per unit, which seems at the very highest range of multifamily rental unit costs in Jax.

On this basis, they would have to have very high finishes with some reasonable square footage, not unlike nice condos.  Thus, it would seem to me they would be better off to convert this to condos and sell them for at least $350,000 and up.  Given the great location and walk-ability, this should be achievable (I note a new home built along Hendricks on a divided lot backing up to Mitchell Avenue alongside the church was marketed for well over $1 million).  And, people almost always pay more for fee simple ownership square footage than for rental square footage.

Problem solved  8)!

Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on April 03, 2017, 09:50:06 PM
A nice unit at The Marco Condominium just closed last week for $150,000. CASH buyer. 1 bed 1 bath 734 sf. No amenities to speak of but the location. It was on the market about 2 weeks. I agree with the sentiment that condos here "in today's market" would be a hit. Not sure about 2 years from now however.  Recent rehabs (SFR) in the area between The Square and Baptist are well over $200 per sf for small bungalows in great condition.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 04, 2017, 07:08:53 AM
Here's an update. Basically, the numbers don't work...

Quote
“It’s in a holding pattern,” Jason Jacobson, regional partner with ArchCo Residential. “We’ve been struggling with our costs on the project, and that’s been the story for the past year. It got to the point where construction costs have risen, interest rates have risen, financing costs have risen.

“We’re trying to work it through Regency, put this together and move forward.”

Quote
Interest rates are of particular concern, not just current rates but future ones.

“The whole interest environment has changed,” he said. “Construction loans are done with variable interest rates. There are ways of hedging that cost, so there’s financial engineering going on.”

“It’s by no means dead,” Jacobson said. “There are some things that we could do to lower the debt cost on the project. Some may involve some contribution from Regency.”

He said he expects some resolution one way or the other in the next 30 days.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/business/real-estate/2017-04-03/east-san-marco-project-hold-again
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxnyc79 on April 04, 2017, 08:54:57 AM
Interest rate sensitivity.  In this environment, it's tougher to get "pioneering" projects through.  This is not a property alongside a compelling landscape feature like the river or beach, so it's unclear whether there's proven demand for this sort of "stacked mixed use" at a location like this.  Is the retail component not diversified enough?  For example, instead of committing tons of ground-floor space to Publix, would breaking it up further among many different retail uses make it more attractive?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 04, 2017, 09:00:12 AM
^No. That's not going to get the construction costs down.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxnyc79 on April 04, 2017, 09:54:18 AM
I've not seen their models, but he did mention costs of debt financing, and the risk premium on interest rates would factor in a multitude of assumptions about the risk of the project.  Development doesn't really appear to be extravagant.  Maybe the potential upside and associated cash flows aren't being "sold" effectively enough to the sources of funding.  Maybe they are.  Part of the fun of this message board is speculative intrigue.   
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxjags on April 04, 2017, 09:54:41 AM
My guess is that Healthy Town may have similar issues.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on April 04, 2017, 10:10:45 AM
I'm not sure I follow.

I have noticed a greater than normal demand for construction over the past 2 years, but I haven't really noticed costs (i.e. material / labor prices) move that much in either direction, but definitely showing a slight downward trend.

Based on current projections, I'm still only using 3.5% yearly escalation when putting bids together, which is down from the 4.25% I was using this time last year. 

Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxjags on April 04, 2017, 10:20:28 AM
I am not involved in these things, but my guess is depends on the risk, type of project and size of company. For instance the SJTC has no issues, smaller infill with government assistance have no issues. But San Marco and Healthy Town are different.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 04, 2017, 10:57:52 AM
SJTC also has no building type similar to East San Marco.  I'm not sure the numbers would work for them if they did not have their massive surface parking areas to support the outdoor mall and associated outparcels.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxjags on April 04, 2017, 11:24:50 AM
SJTC also has no building type similar to East San Marco.  I'm not sure the numbers would work for them if they did not have their massive surface parking areas to support the outdoor mall and associated outparcels.
True construction is different for San Marc, although one apt. complex at SJTC is building a garage. From what I've seen in other equivalent cities, Richmond, Savannah for instance I still think a San Marco design at SJTC would be easier to finance.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: spuwho on April 04, 2017, 12:21:46 PM
Too funny. They talk about interest rates and the cost of construction, but no one talks about raising their equity stake.

If the financial marketplace is saying its priced correctly and the developers dont want to commit, it usually means the financiers want more equity up front.

I also find it interesting that I am seeing multiple residential developments being built throughout Jax, but a single block residential with a retail anchor cant kickoff.

Clearly the banks think this has more risk components than a speculative suburban single family development. 

Something is amiss here.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 04, 2017, 12:28:17 PM
SJTC also has no building type similar to East San Marco.  I'm not sure the numbers would work for them if they did not have their massive surface parking areas to support the outdoor mall and associated outparcels.
True construction is different for San Marc, although one apt. complex at SJTC is building a garage. From what I've seen in other equivalent cities, Richmond, Savannah for instance I still think a San Marco design at SJTC would be easier to finance.

I believe the Ravella apartment complex building the garage across the street from SJTC is no different from what Broadstone is building on the Southbank.  Both of them are five or six stories of stick construction surrounding a parking garage.  With East San Marco, the garage appears to be a part of a single mixed-use structure.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxjags on April 04, 2017, 01:23:50 PM
Too funny. They talk about interest rates and the cost of construction, but no one talks about raising their equity stake.

If the financial marketplace is saying its priced correctly and the developers dont want to commit, it usually means the financiers want more equity up front.

I also find it interesting that I am seeing multiple residential developments being built throughout Jax, but a single block residential with a retail anchor cant kickoff.

Clearly the banks think this has more risk components than a speculative suburban single family development. 

Something is amiss here.

Agree - it is all about the risk involved which impacts equity required and finace terms. In a way no different than buying a house just more complicated
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: FlaBoy on April 04, 2017, 05:10:51 PM
If they could take this thing 8 or 9 floors for more units, I wonder if that would change the economic equation.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxjags on April 04, 2017, 05:26:33 PM
SJTC also has no building type similar to East San Marco.  I'm not sure the numbers would work for them if they did not have their massive surface parking areas to support the outdoor mall and associated outparcels.
True construction is different for San Marc, although one apt. complex at SJTC is building a garage. From what I've seen in other equivalent cities, Richmond, Savannah for instance I still think a San Marco design at SJTC would be easier to finance.

I believe the Ravella apartment complex building the garage across the street from SJTC is no different from what Broadstone is building on the Southbank.  Both of them are five or six stories of stick construction surrounding a parking garage.  With East San Marco, the garage appears to be a part of a single mixed-use structure.

Lakelander - Could this not be similar to 200 Riverside and Broadstone with a two level concrete layer for Publix and retail, with 4-5 levels of stick build out on top of it. They could even use the pre-poured garage concept used at Broadstone for the garage. This would lower construction costs. I like others now wonder if something else is amiss.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 04, 2017, 05:50:31 PM
Broadstone, like the development at SJTC, is a frame complex built around a parking deck.  I believe 220 Riverside has what essentially is a surface parking lot with a building constructed over it.East San Marco has six levels parking, five of which are on top the Publix (see floor plans below). All three are quite different examples of infill design and construction techniques.

(http://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Urban-Project-Renderings/i-WJjksrF/0/L/East%20San%20Marco%202016_Page_10A-L.jpg)

(http://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Urban-Project-Renderings/i-GzGVcdG/0/L/East%20San%20Marco%202016_Page_10B-L.jpg)

Quote
I like others now wonder if something else is amiss.

I'll just take their word at it. Whatever it is, the numbers associated with this specific deal don't work enough for the Atlanta developer to want to go with it, as currently structured.  They claim they're attempting to iron something out with Regency over the next month, one way or the other.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on April 06, 2017, 08:16:56 AM
Iron away.  I've been a doubter cause it has been vacant for so damn long. But I really want something there.

(Chant) Trader Joe's! Trader Joe's! Trader Joe's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on April 12, 2017, 10:10:51 AM
Agree with Fla Boy. Take it up a little higher and add a short term furnished rental component, i.e Air B-n-B or hotel. It would be slammed in that location.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Captain Zissou on April 17, 2017, 03:37:41 PM
Gainesville has pulled off a number of project that are bigger than this.  The Standard is a couple times the size of East San Marco.

Quote
Other first-floor tenants coming to The Standard that were previously reported in the Sun include Chick-Fil-A, Bento Cafe and Costa Vida Fresh Mexican Grill.

Target has made a priority of opening more “flexible-format” stores near college campuses, with merchandise for dorms and apartments, grab-and-go food, health and beauty products, apparel from local sports teams and order pickup service, according to a news release.

http://www.gainesville.com/news/20160712/cvs-squeezing-into-target-express-at-standard
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 17, 2017, 04:19:34 PM
Gainesville is a college town. Like Tallahassee, Madison, WI and Columbus, OH, totally different market.  Nevertheless, East San Marco is it's own little unique animal.  It has less to do with Jax as a whole and more to do with the amount of money initially invested in that site during the height of the 2000s real estate boom.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: FSBA on April 17, 2017, 07:08:32 PM
Gainesville is a college town. Like Tallahassee, Madison, WI and Columbus, OH, totally different market.  Nevertheless, East San Marco is it's own little unique animal.  It has less to do with Jax as a whole and more to do with the amount of money initially invested in that site during the height of the 2000s real estate boom.

Hope the folks enjoy sitting on things for another decade. If something doesn't happen in the next 18-24 months to get ground broken they'll be in for the Great Recession 2.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: FlaBoy on April 18, 2017, 12:50:46 PM
It seems like the big problem is the initial cost of the land from back in 2003 that probably still has not made it back. This initial cost with rising construction costs now leave them a loser. It is a great location that would 110% work and be filled to the brim with people wanting to live there, but they are basically saying that until costs come down, they will lose money, am I right?

Could the City step in and do anything because this is valuable property that should be making the city a lot more money with taxes...
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on April 18, 2017, 12:53:47 PM
^I agree the city should be more proactive with incentives to make stuff like this work. On the other hand, it seems like it would be a pretty big subsidy to make it work in San Marco, and it's already a pretty well off area. The same money would probably have a much bigger impact spent Downtown or a distressed neighborhood.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: FlaBoy on April 18, 2017, 01:14:10 PM
Is there any potential solution to getting this done with the current financial state of the land? The developers clearly aren't looking to sell at a loss at this point.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on April 27, 2018, 08:13:56 AM
Regency says the project is back on as only Publix/retail, no apartments.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/regency-plans-to-start-san-marco-shopping-center-publix-within-a-year

Disappointing but likelier to get done.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Adam White on April 27, 2018, 08:19:24 AM
Regency says the project is back on as only Publix/retail, no apartments.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/regency-plans-to-start-san-marco-shopping-center-publix-within-a-year

Disappointing but likelier to get done.

Any chance they're going to add a Fudrucker's?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: sanmarcomatt on April 27, 2018, 08:48:21 AM
Regency says the project is back on as only Publix/retail, no apartments.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/regency-plans-to-start-san-marco-shopping-center-publix-within-a-year

Disappointing but likelier to get done.

Pathetic final result (considering time and investment) but good news for the other proposed residential in the vicinity.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 27, 2018, 08:56:25 AM
Great news for the community. It was clear the project wasn't going to work with residential on top and that big parking deck. Better to have the retail and no residential, as opposed to another decade of looking at an empty field.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on April 27, 2018, 09:07:42 AM
Agree. Hope they can plan ingress and egress to work with the existing traffic flows. There are times when it is pretty crowded at that intersection.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: acme54321 on April 27, 2018, 10:29:14 AM
Are there any renderings floating around for this iteration yet?  Very interested to see how they lay the site out.  Can't wait to see the huge surface lot fronting Atlantic and Hendricks!
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Steve on April 27, 2018, 10:51:30 AM
Are there any renderings floating around for this iteration yet?  Very interested to see how they lay the site out.  Can't wait to see the huge surface lot fronting Atlantic and Hendricks!

What makes you think that? I'm expecting something similar now to the Riverside Publix.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 27, 2018, 11:37:04 AM
I don't see any reason why it won't be some variation of what the first level was supposed to be anyway. Just take the old plan and chop off the upper levels. The largest question about parking I'd have is if it will still end up with a smaller 2 level parking deck. The site is still a small one for 50k square feet of retail space.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 27, 2018, 12:46:48 PM
Well this is a huge bummer. I always thought the residential infusion would make the square that much more vibrant. Oh well, I guess a higher likelihood that we see the Baptist site and Home St come through with their residential developments then.

Regency says the project is back on as only Publix/retail, no apartments.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/regency-plans-to-start-san-marco-shopping-center-publix-within-a-year

Disappointing but likelier to get done.

Pathetic final result (considering time and investment) but good news for the other proposed residential in the vicinity.

Never fear SMM, they might just manage to lure a couple more donut shops.  ::)
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: sanmarcomatt on April 27, 2018, 01:24:02 PM

Never fear SMM, they might just manage to lure a couple more donut shops.  ::)

Hmmm....Publix takes up most of the retail but yes, I could  see an addition to the booming donut district. I have heard that Publix donuts are amazing(For the price, all of their food is just great. Jaxons are quite the foodies) so it just keeps getting better!

Of course,  a  hair salon and nail salon are  required by the San Marco overlay.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: FlaBoy on April 27, 2018, 01:27:01 PM
Quote
She said she did hear about potential development on the adjacent parcel that was looking at a “substantial” density.

Boyer said that was unlikely to be supported because the existing PUD was approved for a six-story height on the corner of Hendricks and Atlantic that transitioned lower.

Because the retail center is planned there now, Boyer said the community probably would not support transferring a substantial residential density to the adjacent site, which is near a park.

That is an interesting tidbit. That property next to Fletcher Park and the Southside Baptist spot now become prime development locations for walkable density to this Publix and the Square.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on April 27, 2018, 05:45:13 PM
Exactly what adjacent site are they talking about. The only one I can image is less than a quarter acre.  20 stories?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 27, 2018, 06:30:23 PM
20 stories?! Lol no way. This isn't Miami or Chicago. This likely a stick frame structure in the five story range.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: acme54321 on April 28, 2018, 08:38:01 AM
Are there any renderings floating around for this iteration yet?  Very interested to see how they lay the site out.  Can't wait to see the huge surface lot fronting Atlantic and Hendricks!

What makes you think that? I'm expecting something similar now to the Riverside Publix.

I was joking.  I'd assume they will just remove the residential levels.  I'm sure the developer knows it would be an uphill battle to try to drastically change the site plan.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on April 28, 2018, 03:01:35 PM
"20 stories?! Lol no way. This isn't Miami or Chicago. This likely a stick frame structure in the five story range."

Of course, but on which adjacent parcel.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 28, 2018, 03:36:10 PM
Sounded like the vacant parcel on the west side of the park.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: billy on April 28, 2018, 04:59:14 PM
I think the original project would have loomed over San Marco in an overwhelming way.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxnyc79 on April 28, 2018, 05:21:20 PM
I think the original project would have loomed over San Marco in an overwhelming way.

I agree.  I think this is a great outcome if we see the lot turned into an expanded, yet walkable retail district in San Marco.  Suddenly, we're getting close to blocks of walkable shops, eateries, and boutiques.  Also, there seems to be a significant amount of dense residential coming to the community to hopefully sustain the retail expansion.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on April 29, 2018, 09:52:06 AM
There is. Close to 500 units in the planning stages along Philips Hwy a mile away, and at least that amount down Hendricks toward the river.
More than enough to keep this Publix busy.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 29, 2018, 10:43:00 AM
I noticed yesterday construction has started on the first Philips Highway project.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: remc86007 on April 29, 2018, 04:36:40 PM
I think the original project would have loomed over San Marco in an overwhelming way.


I somewhat agree. Development isn't zero-sum, but if the residential part of this project not happening leads to more dense projects closer to the southbank, I think that's a good thing.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: FlaBoy on April 29, 2018, 07:12:46 PM
Hopefully this makes the Baptist HQ Site more of a reality soon as well.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 29, 2018, 07:59:55 PM
Hopefully this makes the Baptist HQ Site more of a reality soon as well.

This is still a mixed-use project right? Residential over retail? Will run into the same issues as the previous East San Marco project then, but hopefully their fundamentals are better.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: FlaBoy on April 29, 2018, 09:30:33 PM
Hopefully this makes the Baptist HQ Site more of a reality soon as well.

This is still a mixed-use project right? Residential over retail? Will run into the same issues as the previous East San Marco project then, but hopefully their fundamentals are better.

Well it was not bought during the height of the market so the fundamentals are better already. Yeah, it would be an amazing site for an urban Target.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: billy on April 30, 2018, 02:37:14 AM
My understanding is that the (former)Baptist HQ site is waiting for construction costs to drop or level off.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: acme54321 on April 30, 2018, 07:48:47 AM
My understanding is that the (former)Baptist HQ site is waiting for construction costs to drop or level off.

Well that's reassuring
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: sanmarcomatt on April 30, 2018, 08:11:59 AM
My understanding is that the (former)Baptist HQ site is waiting for construction costs to drop or level off.

Then I have nothing but confidence with their ability to handle rising interest rates.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on April 30, 2018, 08:53:02 AM
"My understanding is that the (former)Baptist HQ site is waiting for construction costs to drop or level off."

Uh there is no economic forecast that predicts that will happen, and if it did then the same economic forces that said building it would be a good idea will be in decline as well. 

This could be a parallel situation with the Publix.......  10 years from now we'll be wondering what happened.

Does anyone know if they have gotten approval from DDRB or DIA for this ?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Steve on April 30, 2018, 09:15:29 AM
"My understanding is that the (former)Baptist HQ site is waiting for construction costs to drop or level off."

Uh there is no economic forecast that predicts that will happen, and if it did then the same economic forces that said building it would be a good idea will be in decline as well. 

This could be a parallel situation with the Publix.......  10 years from now we'll be wondering what happened.

Does anyone know if they have gotten approval from DDRB or DIA for this ?

No DDRB/DIA approval needed....the site is south of I-95. That's the official Downtown border. And since San Marco isn't legally a historic district, they just have to go through the normal city process as if they were building this at 295 and Normandy.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxnyc79 on April 30, 2018, 08:51:19 PM
I thought San Marco had an overlay district...
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: acme54321 on May 01, 2018, 07:46:18 AM
I thought San Marco had an overlay district...

Nope
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: sanmarcomatt on May 01, 2018, 08:25:55 AM
I thought San Marco had an overlay district...

Nope

I was under the impression one existed.

https://library.municode.com/fl/jacksonville/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=ZOSE_CH656ZOCO_PT3SCDIRE_SPMSAMAOVZO
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Steve on May 01, 2018, 08:45:33 AM
There is a zoning overlay, however that still runs through regular planning. There is no DIA or JHPC (Jacksonville Historic Preservation Commission) approval needed was my point.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: sanmarcomatt on May 01, 2018, 08:59:34 AM
But don't forget the super secret double dog parking Nazi San Marco committee. All final approval has to go thru them. I have never been able to infiltrate the inner circle but I think robes, chanting, and animal sacrifice is involved.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: acme54321 on May 01, 2018, 09:59:11 AM
I thought San Marco had an overlay district...

Nope

I was under the impression one existed.

https://library.municode.com/fl/jacksonville/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=ZOSE_CH656ZOCO_PT3SCDIRE_SPMSAMAOVZO

Yeah my bad I was thinking historic district
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: acme54321 on September 28, 2018, 02:42:59 PM
6 months later and still crickets over here ::)
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on September 29, 2018, 02:24:08 PM
Crickets are certainly more noisy than the developers of that disaster...............
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Bativac on September 29, 2018, 10:42:04 PM
6 months later and still crickets over here ::)

If a Publix ever gets built on that site, I promise to stroll past it in nothing but a diaper and an oversized bonnet.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Captain Zissou on October 01, 2018, 09:41:36 AM
Crickets are certainly more noisy than the developers of that disaster...............
Oh yeah?  Regency just completed a merger to become a $16B company and they have hundreds of millions in the development and acquisition pipeline.  When have you seen a cricket do that?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on October 01, 2018, 02:00:34 PM
Don't tell Bativac.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Bativac on October 30, 2018, 12:33:51 PM
Don't tell Bativac.

I hope the Publix opens, one day, if for no other reason than to get rid of the giant vacant lot over there. I mean even the old Baron gas station would be better than the empty lot. I still have family in the area (though some are planning their exit strategy and others have fled to St Johns County or Ponte Vedra) and I grew up near San Marco - I was a Hendricks Ave Elementary and Landon Jr High student - so I want the best for it. But like many other construction projects in Jax....just empty promises.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on October 30, 2018, 02:23:32 PM
Come to think of it, that vacant lot is FULL of crickets!
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on November 01, 2018, 09:00:48 AM
Here's the latest:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-mathis-report-east-san-marco-project-is-moving-forward
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Captain Zissou on November 01, 2018, 09:15:45 AM
Cue the Musicman belly-aching.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on November 01, 2018, 09:37:38 AM
Quote
In April, Regency Centers Corp. Chairman and CEO Martin E. “Hap” Stein said the project, once envisioned as a retail and multifamily development, will be just Publix and shops and restaurants.

“It’s going to be a terrific shopping center that’ll be very favorably received by the neighborhood and what the neighborhood needs,” Stein said in April after Jacksonville-based Regency Centers Corp.’s annual meeting of shareholders. Regency is a national shopping center owner.

“It will be a very positive addition to a great neighborhood in the San Marco area,” he said.

That was six months ago. Stein said then that construction should start within the year and be completed a year after that.

Depending on how one interprets this, give them another two to six months before getting too concerned about not hearing anything out of them. What's being proposed now is different from what held the project up for over a decade. Thus, it will still take some time to modify plans, address financing, permitting, etc. before construction can begin.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on November 01, 2018, 10:34:51 AM
Quote
In April, Regency Centers Corp. Chairman and CEO Martin E. “Hap” Stein said the project, once envisioned as a retail and multifamily development, will be just Publix and shops and restaurants.

“It’s going to be a terrific shopping center that’ll be very favorably received by the neighborhood and what the neighborhood needs,” Stein said in April after Jacksonville-based Regency Centers Corp.’s annual meeting of shareholders. Regency is a national shopping center owner.

“It will be a very positive addition to a great neighborhood in the San Marco area,” he said.

That was six months ago. Stein said then that construction should start within the year and be completed a year after that.

Depending on how one interprets this, give them another two to six months before getting too concerned about not hearing anything out of them. What's being proposed now is different from what held the project up for over a decade. Thus, it will still take some time to modify plans, address financing, permitting, etc. before construction can begin.

It should also come online much easier than a multistory tower with parking garage, if they're committed to doing it.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kerry on November 01, 2018, 11:28:35 AM
13 years and still a vacant lot.  The old me would have suggested this fell under the heading of "Dawdling", but the new me is positive and optimistic.

https://youtu.be/_YM0Ln7KgrU
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on November 01, 2018, 04:33:33 PM
You're wrong Captain!  But I will miss the wonderful summer evening cricket serenade! 

Has it really been 13 years?  That beats out Berkman II.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kerry on November 01, 2018, 07:05:16 PM
http://www.postandcourier.com/20160705/160709704/publix-to-anchor-new-westedge-building-on-charleston-peninsula (http://www.postandcourier.com/20160705/160709704/publix-to-anchor-new-westedge-building-on-charleston-peninsula)

Similar Publix anchored project underway in Charleston, although this was the first word that Publix was involved.

For perspective - this project in Charleston just opened.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on November 01, 2018, 07:57:30 PM
The market isn't similar. The core of Charleston is one of the most rapidly gentrifying urban districts in the country.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kerry on November 02, 2018, 05:57:15 PM
The market isn't similar. The core of Charleston is one of the most rapidly gentrifying urban districts in the country.

I agree.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 11, 2019, 11:38:38 AM
Still committed. Will 2019 be the year Publix finally breaks ground?

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-mathis-report-east-san-marco-is-still-moving-forward
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Jagsdrew on January 11, 2019, 03:12:23 PM
Love the commitment from all the articles over the last year regarding ESM:

1/11/19 - Committed
11/1/18 - Is Moving Forward
6/30/18 - Still Committed
4/27/18 - Remain Committed
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: vicupstate on January 11, 2019, 03:24:27 PM
Love the commitment from all the articles over the last year regarding ESM:

1/11/19 - Committed
11/1/18 - Is Moving Forward
6/30/18 - Still Committed
4/27/18 - Remain Committed

Obviously, they are committed to moving forward. 
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Charles Hunter on January 11, 2019, 03:34:42 PM
... and to commitment.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxnyc79 on January 11, 2019, 03:54:46 PM
Uh oh, there's regression here.  They were "Moving Forward" and now back to "Committed."  Not a good sign.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on January 11, 2019, 04:35:38 PM
10 years an empty lot is not a good sign....
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Captain Zissou on January 11, 2019, 04:47:58 PM
Love the commitment from all the articles over the last year regarding ESM:

1/11/19 - Committed
11/1/18 - Is Moving Forward
6/30/18 - Still Committed
4/27/18 - Remain Committed

??

It's not like Regency put out a press release saying they're still committed.  Talking about East San Marco gets a lot of clicks, so the daily record wrote an unprompted article.  Nothing has changed, but they daily record wants readers.

Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on January 12, 2019, 08:53:39 AM
I think the guys who wrote the contract 10 years ago should be 'committed.'
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: I-10east on January 12, 2019, 12:14:30 PM
San Marco Publix = Fuddruckers at the Landing.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Bativac on January 12, 2019, 04:54:02 PM
Still committed. Will 2019 be the year Publix finally breaks ground?

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-mathis-report-east-san-marco-is-still-moving-forward

I am visiting Jax for the first time in a couple years next week! Any signs at all of any kind of progress on the site?....
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 12, 2019, 06:00:57 PM
No. Nothing has changed. Since the residential part is now out, they'll likely have to modify zoning again on the property before any dirt is turned on the site.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: realestatejax on January 14, 2019, 11:15:35 AM
It really isn't surprising that this has taken so long since the residential component was removed.  You have the changes to the zoning that need to be addressed and all of the corresponding approvals with the City.  Additionally, the deal has changed which will require them to renegotiate their whole agreement with Publix.   When dealing with Publix I would expect at least four to six months to negotiate terms, another few months to get their committee approval, and another four to six months to get a lease negotiated and signed. 
These things take time...
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 14, 2019, 11:23:22 AM
^Bingo. I don't think most people realize what goes into these projects and how long that takes before things actually break ground.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kerry on January 14, 2019, 12:32:35 PM
I think the time delay is a Jax thing.  Gate has planned, broken ground, and opened a 1000 acre development in St Johns County while San Marco waits for a grocery store.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Charles Hunter on January 14, 2019, 12:43:10 PM
Has the rezoning been done, yet - or even started?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: fieldafm on January 14, 2019, 12:45:32 PM
I think the time delay is a Jax thing.  Gate has planned, broken ground, and opened a 1000 acre development in St Johns County while San Marco waits for a grocery store.

And yet, about two dozen new grocery stores opened in Jax in the last two years.

Maybe it's not a 'Jax thing' and more like a 'site thing'?  Or maybe it's Shad Khan's fault? 
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: realestatejax on January 14, 2019, 01:25:09 PM
I think the time delay is a Jax thing.  Gate has planned, broken ground, and opened a 1000 acre development in St Johns County while San Marco waits for a grocery store.

Gate was putting that project together for years.  Then it took Gatlin another few years to get to where they are at today.  Remember this is just the 1st phase of the overall project.  There is still a long way to go. 
The new Publix that is going in across the street from Durbin Pavillion has been in the works for at least three years and they still haven't broken ground.  Again this stuff takes a LONG TIME!
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on January 14, 2019, 02:03:28 PM
I think the time delay is a Jax thing.  Gate has planned, broken ground, and opened a 1000 acre development in St Johns County while San Marco waits for a grocery store.

Gate was putting that project together for years.  Then it took Gatlin another few years to get to where they are at today.  Remember this is just the 1st phase of the overall project.  There is still a long way to go. 
The new Publix that is going in across the street from Durbin Pavillion has been in the works for at least three years and they still haven't broken ground.  Again this stuff takes a LONG TIME!

The baseless inferiority complex is definitely a Jax thing.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: fieldafm on January 14, 2019, 03:04:00 PM
I think the time delay is a Jax thing.  Gate has planned, broken ground, and opened a 1000 acre development in St Johns County while San Marco waits for a grocery store.

Gate was putting that project together for years.  Then it took Gatlin another few years to get to where they are at today.  Remember this is just the 1st phase of the overall project.  There is still a long way to go. 
The new Publix that is going in across the street from Durbin Pavillion has been in the works for at least three years and they still haven't broken ground.  Again this stuff takes a LONG TIME!

Not that Kerry has any time for such trivial matters as facts.... because Shad Khan, Jacksonville sucks, developers suck, people here are all talk no action and Oklahoma City is glorious... but Durbin Park is a 30 year development that was entitled in 2015. Gaitlin's involvement first began in 2016 to develop phase 1 of the project.

For background, Gate has owned the land since 2004.

In 2011, the company successfully lobbied the Governor's office to enact legislation to dub the property an 'urban services area', which meant it would not have to follow the DRI entitlement process (which would have forced them to pay for millions more in infrastructure).

Before that, the company successfully lobbied legislators to build and fund Florida 9B beginning in 2005 along with an interchange at County Road 2209 in order to open up this land to development. The recession halted funding, but more money was miraculously found again in 2010.

So, yes.... a grocery store popped up in Northern St Johns County last year.... but it took 14 years, over $200 million in highway construction and millions more in bond money to build supporting infrastructure in order for all that to happen.

In other words, a perfect apples to apples comparison of the San Marco Publix.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kerry on January 14, 2019, 04:37:32 PM
I think the time delay is a Jax thing.  Gate has planned, broken ground, and opened a 1000 acre development in St Johns County while San Marco waits for a grocery store.

And yet, about two dozen new grocery stores opened in Jax in the last two years.

Maybe it's not a 'Jax thing' and more like a 'site thing'?  Or maybe it's Shad Khan's fault?

Well there definately seems to be some sort of inverse relationship between the distance from City Hall and time to complete.  Suburban stuff in Jax seems to be conceived, propsed, and executed pretty fast.  Urban stuff - the exact opposite.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on January 14, 2019, 04:52:06 PM
I think the time delay is a Jax thing.  Gate has planned, broken ground, and opened a 1000 acre development in St Johns County while San Marco waits for a grocery store.

And yet, about two dozen new grocery stores opened in Jax in the last two years.

Maybe it's not a 'Jax thing' and more like a 'site thing'?  Or maybe it's Shad Khan's fault?

Well there definately seems to be some sort of inverse relationship between the distance from City Hall and time to complete.  Suburban stuff in Jax seems to be conceived, propsed, and executed pretty fast.  Urban stuff - the exact opposite.

https://catalogofbias.org/biases/observer-bias/
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: vicupstate on January 14, 2019, 05:20:17 PM
I think the time delay is a Jax thing.  Gate has planned, broken ground, and opened a 1000 acre development in St Johns County while San Marco waits for a grocery store.

Gate was putting that project together for years.  Then it took Gatlin another few years to get to where they are at today.  Remember this is just the 1st phase of the overall project.  There is still a long way to go. 
The new Publix that is going in across the street from Durbin Pavillion has been in the works for at least three years and they still haven't broken ground.  Again this stuff takes a LONG TIME!

Not that Kerry has any time for such trivial matters as facts.... because Shad Khan, Jacksonville sucks, developers suck, people here are all talk no action and Oklahoma City is glorious... but Durbin Park is a 30 year development that was entitled in 2015. Gaitlin's involvement first began in 2016 to develop phase 1 of the project.

For background, Gate has owned the land since 2004.

In 2011, the company successfully lobbied the Governor's office to enact legislation to dub the property an 'urban services area', which meant it would not have to follow the DRI entitlement process (which would have forced them to pay for millions more in infrastructure).

Before that, the company successfully lobbied legislators to build and fund Florida 9B beginning in 2005 along with an interchange at County Road 2209 in order to open up this land to development. The recession halted funding, but more money was miraculously found again in 2010.

So, yes.... a grocery store popped up in Northern St Johns County last year.... but it took 14 years, over $200 million in highway construction and millions more in bond money to build supporting infrastructure in order for all that to happen.

In other words, a perfect apples to apples comparison of the San Marco Publix.


I don't see this as Apples to Apples. When Gate bought the property is not relevant, IMO. There was no ability to put a grocery store on the Gate property until the infrastructure was in place.  There was the ability to build a grocery store in San Marco as soon as the zoning was changed to allow it.

Further still, the best Apple to Apple version is when the intentions to build were announced vs. when the store actually opened.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Steve on January 14, 2019, 05:56:49 PM
I think the time delay is a Jax thing.  Gate has planned, broken ground, and opened a 1000 acre development in St Johns County while San Marco waits for a grocery store.

And yet, about two dozen new grocery stores opened in Jax in the last two years.

Maybe it's not a 'Jax thing' and more like a 'site thing'?  Or maybe it's Shad Khan's fault?

Well there definately seems to be some sort of inverse relationship between the distance from City Hall and time to complete.  Suburban stuff in Jax seems to be conceived, propsed, and executed pretty fast.  Urban stuff - the exact opposite.

I mean, you’re talking about the second longest proposed project in the urban Core to the shipyards. Kind of an anomaly.

The big difference I see is that when a developer proposes something downtown, in many cases they don’t own the property, and the proposal becomes public because of things like design review. They then won’t close on the property unless it’s appeoved.

In the suburbs, the proposals are there, they just aren’t usually known to the public.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 14, 2019, 07:20:39 PM
I think the time delay is a Jax thing.  Gate has planned, broken ground, and opened a 1000 acre development in St Johns County while San Marco waits for a grocery store.

Gate was putting that project together for years.  Then it took Gatlin another few years to get to where they are at today.  Remember this is just the 1st phase of the overall project.  There is still a long way to go. 
The new Publix that is going in across the street from Durbin Pavillion has been in the works for at least three years and they still haven't broken ground.  Again this stuff takes a LONG TIME!

Not that Kerry has any time for such trivial matters as facts.... because Shad Khan, Jacksonville sucks, developers suck, people here are all talk no action and Oklahoma City is glorious... but Durbin Park is a 30 year development that was entitled in 2015. Gaitlin's involvement first began in 2016 to develop phase 1 of the project.

For background, Gate has owned the land since 2004.

In 2011, the company successfully lobbied the Governor's office to enact legislation to dub the property an 'urban services area', which meant it would not have to follow the DRI entitlement process (which would have forced them to pay for millions more in infrastructure).

Before that, the company successfully lobbied legislators to build and fund Florida 9B beginning in 2005 along with an interchange at County Road 2209 in order to open up this land to development. The recession halted funding, but more money was miraculously found again in 2010.

So, yes.... a grocery store popped up in Northern St Johns County last year.... but it took 14 years, over $200 million in highway construction and millions more in bond money to build supporting infrastructure in order for all that to happen.

In other words, a perfect apples to apples comparison of the San Marco Publix.


I don't see this as Apples to Apples. When Gate bought the property is not relevant, IMO. There was no ability to put a grocery store on the Gate property until the infrastructure was in place.  There was the ability to build a grocery store in San Marco as soon as the zoning was changed to allow it.

Further still, the best Apple to Apple version is when the intentions to build were announced vs. when the store actually opened.
That's not apples to apples either. Up until a few months ago, the proposal wasn't a Publix. It was a Publix with a parking deck and 6 or 7 floors of condos/apartments on top of it. That's a product that still hasn't been built locally. Now the new proposal is a Publix and some retail shops, which is more comparable to what's in the burbs. The change essentially resets the clock because the proposal is totally different from what had been delayed over a decade.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: fieldafm on January 15, 2019, 04:18:29 AM
I think the time delay is a Jax thing.  Gate has planned, broken ground, and opened a 1000 acre development in St Johns County while San Marco waits for a grocery store.

Gate was putting that project together for years.  Then it took Gatlin another few years to get to where they are at today.  Remember this is just the 1st phase of the overall project.  There is still a long way to go. 
The new Publix that is going in across the street from Durbin Pavillion has been in the works for at least three years and they still haven't broken ground.  Again this stuff takes a LONG TIME!

Not that Kerry has any time for such trivial matters as facts.... because Shad Khan, Jacksonville sucks, developers suck, people here are all talk no action and Oklahoma City is glorious... but Durbin Park is a 30 year development that was entitled in 2015. Gaitlin's involvement first began in 2016 to develop phase 1 of the project.

For background, Gate has owned the land since 2004.

In 2011, the company successfully lobbied the Governor's office to enact legislation to dub the property an 'urban services area', which meant it would not have to follow the DRI entitlement process (which would have forced them to pay for millions more in infrastructure).

Before that, the company successfully lobbied legislators to build and fund Florida 9B beginning in 2005 along with an interchange at County Road 2209 in order to open up this land to development. The recession halted funding, but more money was miraculously found again in 2010.

So, yes.... a grocery store popped up in Northern St Johns County last year.... but it took 14 years, over $200 million in highway construction and millions more in bond money to build supporting infrastructure in order for all that to happen.

In other words, a perfect apples to apples comparison of the San Marco Publix.


I don't see this as Apples to Apples. When Gate bought the property is not relevant, IMO. There was no ability to put a grocery store on the Gate property until the infrastructure was in place.  There was the ability to build a grocery store in San Marco as soon as the zoning was changed to allow it.

Further still, the best Apple to Apple version is when the intentions to build were announced vs. when the store actually opened.

The 'apples to apples' comment was dripping with sarcasm  :)
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on January 16, 2019, 09:14:18 AM
One thing I believe is not in dispute is that as things stand today, January 16 of 2019, the "Publix in San Marco" venture has been a failure.
Yes it "takes a long time" to put these deals together, but 10 years is extreme. And quite frankly, NO ONE BLOGGING HERE knows when if at all a Publix will eventually open on the site.  I'm fairly certain the company behind the development, Regency, is not publicly owned, so there are no share holders asking questions and pushing for a resolution to the issue.

And it does seem that there are a lot of projects that are stuck in limbo, The Shipyards being one, and the Berkman II being another large high profile project that no one actually knows when they will be started, much less completed. It took 4 years for Rummell to close on The District, and honestly that ventured into 'la la land' near the end when Mayor Curry and others tried to screw with the financing....

I think it's time to stop making excuses for the developers and acknowledge they screwed the pooch in quite a few places of real importance to neighborhoods we like and live in.  In the meantime I'll keep driving down St Augustine to the Publix at University....
 
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Captain Zissou on January 16, 2019, 09:22:20 AM
I'm fairly certain the company behind the development, Regency, is not publicly owned, so there are no share holders asking questions and pushing for a resolution to the issue.

Thanks for clarifying that you have no idea what you're talking about. 3 seconds of research would show you that Regency Centers is publicly traded and has been for over 25 years.  Next time, try this: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Is+regency+centers+publicly+traded

The fact that it is publicly traded makes this more complicated.  The property was purchased at an expensive price, so the returns have to be in line with other assets throughout the company in order for management to proceed with the project.  Analysts are able to see the financials and a poorly conceived or executed project just for the sake of getting it done will affect the share price and lose money for thousands.  This isn't just Delores Weaver spending money on a passion project for the good of the neighborhood.  This is a publicly traded company, who is also a part of the S&P 500 Index, who needs to generate sufficient returns to maximize shareholder value.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 16, 2019, 09:47:48 AM
One thing I believe is not in dispute is that as things stand today, January 16 of 2019, the "Publix in San Marco" venture has been a failure.
Yes it "takes a long time" to put these deals together, but 10 years is extreme. And quite frankly, NO ONE BLOGGING HERE knows when if at all a Publix will eventually open on the site.

What's not up for dispute is that a project combining a venture that includes "Publix with multiple levels of multifamily housing above it in San Marco" has been a failure. That project has been scrapped. Time will tell if a strip mall featuring a Publix will come to fruition on the property now.

Quote
And it does seem that there are a lot of projects that are stuck in limbo, The Shipyards being one, and the Berkman II being another large high profile project that no one actually knows when they will be started, much less completed. It took 4 years for Rummell to close on The District, and honestly that ventured into 'la la land' near the end when Mayor Curry and others tried to screw with the financing....

There's a lot more going on around town than the couple of projects that come with high fanfare and media coverage but don't make sense from a market rate perspective.  Vista Brooklyn is turning dirt, hundreds of units are going up on Philips, both projects on Hendricks around I-95 are moving forward, Broadstone is wrapping up, etc. Personally, I think there needs to be more effort targeting specific sites within the Northbank to cluster development more but the Shipyards, Berkman II and the District are necessarily indicative of the core's health.

Quote
I think it's time to stop making excuses for the developers and acknowledge they screwed the pooch in quite a few places of real importance to neighborhoods we like and live in.  In the meantime I'll keep driving down St Augustine to the Publix at University....

These guys don't owe the neighborhood anything. Some projects end up happening and others for a variety of reasons don't. That's consistent regardless of the neighborhood, city or metropolitan area.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on January 16, 2019, 09:52:58 AM
Thank you for the update. It has not performed too well in that 10 year chart I looked at (compared to the S and P 500 Index).

It's still a failure, but you do put some perspective on it being a tiny piece of the big company.

Lake, yes some excellent progress going on.  I have developed a relationship with one of the Partners at Catalyst and they have moved very quickly, so I see good things.  And evidently the time frame for commercial developers like Regency are much longer than other types of investors. 

Just curious about your opinion, what did Regency pay for all the "Publix in San Marco" parcels and what could they sell it for today?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxnyc79 on January 16, 2019, 10:28:09 AM
One thing I believe is not in dispute is that as things stand today, January 16 of 2019, the "Publix in San Marco" venture has been a failure.
Yes it "takes a long time" to put these deals together, but 10 years is extreme. And quite frankly, NO ONE BLOGGING HERE knows when if at all a Publix will eventually open on the site.

What's not up for dispute is that a project combining a venture that includes "Publix with multiple levels of multifamily housing above it in San Marco" has been a failure. That project has been scrapped. Time will tell if a strip mall featuring a Publix will come to fruition on the property now.

Quote
And it does seem that there are a lot of projects that are stuck in limbo, The Shipyards being one, and the Berkman II being another large high profile project that no one actually knows when they will be started, much less completed. It took 4 years for Rummell to close on The District, and honestly that ventured into 'la la land' near the end when Mayor Curry and others tried to screw with the financing....

There's a lot more going on around town than the couple of projects that come with high fanfare and media coverage but don't make sense from a market rate perspective.  Vista Brooklyn is turning dirt, hundreds of units are going up on Philips, both projects on Hendricks around I-95 are moving forward, Broadstone is wrapping up, etc. Personally, I think there needs to be more effort targeting specific sites within the Northbank to cluster development more but the Shipyards, Berkman II and the District are necessarily indicative of the core's health.

Quote
I think it's time to stop making excuses for the developers and acknowledge they screwed the pooch in quite a few places of real importance to neighborhoods we like and live in.  In the meantime I'll keep driving down St Augustine to the Publix at University....

These guys don't owe the neighborhood anything. Some projects end up happening and others for a variety of reasons don't. That's consistent regardless of the neighborhood, city or metropolitan area.

IMO, even though San Marco and the Southbank are associated with core/urban Jax, they just aren't all that dense (residentially speaking).  I do believe that will change in the next 10 years and should fuel a greater intensity of commercial/retail activity.  My mom travels from Deerwood to shop at a couple of the boutiques in San Marco Square, but she would never do that for a Publix (not destination shopping).  Given the Publix right down the road on University, and given higher ROI hurdles that real estate projects must clear to be justified post-crisis, I'd guess that someone figured the neighborhood lacked the residential density to justify any urgency in the project.  However, they're keeping the connection to the plot because as more infill projects come to fruition and the area achieves real urban density, a store will make sense.  Pure speculation here, but I think nothing gets done there for another 5 years, and then development eventually materializes as mid-rise, mixed-use once again.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: fieldafm on January 16, 2019, 10:30:03 AM
Thank you for the update. It has not performed too well in that 10 year chart I looked at (compared to the S and P 500 Index).

Since its 2009 recession low, the Regency Centers stock has more than doubled in value and has paid out almost $30 in dividends. That's a return on investment of roughly 212% over a 9 year period.

I sure hope people don't take investment or real estate advice from you.

Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on January 16, 2019, 10:40:50 AM
The S and P Index has (more than) tripled in that same time.

Why the fuck are you people so snarky on here. 

I've sold over $30,000,000 of real estate and my customers will tell you I did an excellent job for them.

You are not so keep your opinion to yourself, until I sell you something that doesn't work out.

Ask the guys at Catalyst Development Partners, who i sold a parcel too, and are extremely happy about it.

Ask the physicians who purchased the old Morton's Steakhouse, which I sold to them. They are incredibly happy about the way it has turned out.

You want to speak with some of my customers fine Personal Message me and I'll provide you with a list. Until then STFU.

Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 16, 2019, 11:00:13 AM
Thank you for the update. It has not performed too well in that 10 year chart I looked at (compared to the S and P 500 Index).

It's still a failure, but you do put some perspective on it being a tiny piece of the big company.

Lake, yes some excellent progress going on.  I have developed a relationship with one of the Partners at Catalyst and they have moved very quickly, so I see good things.  And evidently the time frame for commercial developers like Regency are much longer than other types of investors. 

Just curious about your opinion, what did Regency pay for all the "Publix in San Marco" parcels and what could they sell it for today?

I don't know what the exact numbers are or why they'd sell it if they believe they can successfully put a strip mall on it. It appears the mixed-use concept was originally proposed by Sembler and Wachovia. That project, which spans multiple development partners over the last +10 years was scrapped last year. It's true, that's a failed project. The latest proposal by Regency is a Publix anchored retail center. Only the future will tell whether it happens or not and how long it takes to materialize.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on January 16, 2019, 11:24:17 AM
One thing I believe is not in dispute is that as things stand today, January 16 of 2019, the "Publix in San Marco" venture has been a failure.
Yes it "takes a long time" to put these deals together, but 10 years is extreme. And quite frankly, NO ONE BLOGGING HERE knows when if at all a Publix will eventually open on the site.

What's not up for dispute is that a project combining a venture that includes "Publix with multiple levels of multifamily housing above it in San Marco" has been a failure. That project has been scrapped. Time will tell if a strip mall featuring a Publix will come to fruition on the property now.

Quote
And it does seem that there are a lot of projects that are stuck in limbo, The Shipyards being one, and the Berkman II being another large high profile project that no one actually knows when they will be started, much less completed. It took 4 years for Rummell to close on The District, and honestly that ventured into 'la la land' near the end when Mayor Curry and others tried to screw with the financing....

There's a lot more going on around town than the couple of projects that come with high fanfare and media coverage but don't make sense from a market rate perspective.  Vista Brooklyn is turning dirt, hundreds of units are going up on Philips, both projects on Hendricks around I-95 are moving forward, Broadstone is wrapping up, etc. Personally, I think there needs to be more effort targeting specific sites within the Northbank to cluster development more but the Shipyards, Berkman II and the District are necessarily indicative of the core's health.

Quote
I think it's time to stop making excuses for the developers and acknowledge they screwed the pooch in quite a few places of real importance to neighborhoods we like and live in.  In the meantime I'll keep driving down St Augustine to the Publix at University....

These guys don't owe the neighborhood anything. Some projects end up happening and others for a variety of reasons don't. That's consistent regardless of the neighborhood, city or metropolitan area.

IMO, even though San Marco and the Southbank are associated with core/urban Jax, they just aren't all that dense (residentially speaking).  I do believe that will change in the next 10 years and should fuel a greater intensity of commercial/retail activity.  My mom travels from Deerwood to shop at a couple of the boutiques in San Marco Square, but she would never do that for a Publix (not destination shopping).  Given the Publix right down the road on University, and given higher ROI hurdles that real estate projects must clear to be justified post-crisis, I'd guess that someone figured the neighborhood lacked the residential density to justify any urgency in the project.  However, they're keeping the connection to the plot because as more infill projects come to fruition and the area achieves real urban density, a store will make sense.  Pure speculation here, but I think nothing gets done there for another 5 years, and then development eventually materializes as mid-rise, mixed-use once again.

Not really what happened. The original plans were for mixed use developments. That's a much trickier proposition than a shopping center. If it was always just a shopping center, it would have been built years ago.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: sanmarcomatt on January 16, 2019, 11:44:21 AM
Thank you for the update. It has not performed too well in that 10 year chart I looked at (compared to the S and P 500 Index).

Since its 2009 recession low, the Regency Centers stock has more than doubled in value and has paid out almost $30 in dividends. That's a return on investment of roughly 212% over a 9 year period.

I sure hope people don't take investment or real estate advice from you.



Stock market reference? I am drawn like the Pats to AFC championship games.
Hmmmmm. He said compared to the S&P 500....I don’t care enough to check, but when you factor in taxes, I would be surprised if MM is wrong.

You seem a little grouchy. Somebody.....get this man a donut! Stat!




Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Captain Zissou on January 16, 2019, 11:53:36 AM
Regency is leading the sector and has put together solid YoY growth for the last 10 years, but due to the consistent stream of retailer bankruptcies, Shopping Center REITs have been down for the last 2-3 years due to long term uncertainty.  If anyone wants to look at the financials, I'm guessing that Regency and all others in the sector are currently valued at a lower multiple to earnings than in 2016.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MEGATRON on January 16, 2019, 11:54:39 AM
The S and P Index has (more than) tripled in that same time.

Why the fuck are you people so snarky on here. 

I've sold over $30,000,000 of real estate and my customers will tell you I did an excellent job for them.

You are not so keep your opinion to yourself, until I sell you something that doesn't work out.

Ask the guys at Catalyst Development Partners, who i sold a parcel too, and are extremely happy about it.

Ask the physicians who purchased the old Morton's Steakhouse, which I sold to them. They are incredibly happy about the way it has turned out.

You want to speak with some of my customers fine Personal Message me and I'll provide you with a list. Until then STFU.
Megatron: Yes, hello, is this Catalyst Development Partners?

Guy at Catalyst Development Partners:  Yes, it is.  How may I help you?

Megatron: Great.  Hey, I wanted to ask you about your experiences with MusicMan, the dude with the creepy avatar on the Jaxson message board, formerly known as the MetroJacksonville message board.  He identified you as a reference and said you were extremely happy with his services.

Guy at Catalyst Development Partners:  WTF.  This is weird.  How did our name come up?

Megatron: Well, you see, we were discussing Regency Realty and MusicMan said that Regency must suck because it has not outperformed the S&P.

Guy at Catalyst Development Partners: You mean, Regency Realty, one of the top three REITs in the country that has consistently outperformed similar REITs.

Megatron: Yes, that Regency.

Guy at Catalyst Development Partners: What an idiot.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on January 16, 2019, 12:19:57 PM
MEGATOOL:

I don't know any of his customers nor have I spoken with any of them.

Guy at Catalyst:  Then you should talk with them first.  I had been trying to buy vacant land near our project in San Marco for 8 months.

Had ZERO luck.  Music Man cold called me and got it done.  I can't say enough about how happy I am he called me then did the work to

close the deal. In addition to the parcel we wanted, he got the Seller to throw in 2 extra vacant parcels for no additional money. He just

sold one for $50,000.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on January 16, 2019, 12:25:58 PM
All right folks, give it a rest.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxnyc79 on January 16, 2019, 12:34:59 PM
One thing I believe is not in dispute is that as things stand today, January 16 of 2019, the "Publix in San Marco" venture has been a failure.
Yes it "takes a long time" to put these deals together, but 10 years is extreme. And quite frankly, NO ONE BLOGGING HERE knows when if at all a Publix will eventually open on the site.

What's not up for dispute is that a project combining a venture that includes "Publix with multiple levels of multifamily housing above it in San Marco" has been a failure. That project has been scrapped. Time will tell if a strip mall featuring a Publix will come to fruition on the property now.

Quote
And it does seem that there are a lot of projects that are stuck in limbo, The Shipyards being one, and the Berkman II being another large high profile project that no one actually knows when they will be started, much less completed. It took 4 years for Rummell to close on The District, and honestly that ventured into 'la la land' near the end when Mayor Curry and others tried to screw with the financing....

There's a lot more going on around town than the couple of projects that come with high fanfare and media coverage but don't make sense from a market rate perspective.  Vista Brooklyn is turning dirt, hundreds of units are going up on Philips, both projects on Hendricks around I-95 are moving forward, Broadstone is wrapping up, etc. Personally, I think there needs to be more effort targeting specific sites within the Northbank to cluster development more but the Shipyards, Berkman II and the District are necessarily indicative of the core's health.

Quote
I think it's time to stop making excuses for the developers and acknowledge they screwed the pooch in quite a few places of real importance to neighborhoods we like and live in.  In the meantime I'll keep driving down St Augustine to the Publix at University....

These guys don't owe the neighborhood anything. Some projects end up happening and others for a variety of reasons don't. That's consistent regardless of the neighborhood, city or metropolitan area.

IMO, even though San Marco and the Southbank are associated with core/urban Jax, they just aren't all that dense (residentially speaking).  I do believe that will change in the next 10 years and should fuel a greater intensity of commercial/retail activity.  My mom travels from Deerwood to shop at a couple of the boutiques in San Marco Square, but she would never do that for a Publix (not destination shopping).  Given the Publix right down the road on University, and given higher ROI hurdles that real estate projects must clear to be justified post-crisis, I'd guess that someone figured the neighborhood lacked the residential density to justify any urgency in the project.  However, they're keeping the connection to the plot because as more infill projects come to fruition and the area achieves real urban density, a store will make sense.  Pure speculation here, but I think nothing gets done there for another 5 years, and then development eventually materializes as mid-rise, mixed-use once again.

Not really what happened. The original plans were for mixed use developments. That's a much trickier proposition than a shopping center. If it was always just a shopping center, it would have been built years ago.

Is it possible the Publix numbers worked years ago when a density of upscale residential purchasing power were embedded in its new location as part of the original construction.  When on-site residential was dropped, Publix has at least publicly remained on board because of emerging residential density in the broader neighborhood?  Might Publix still be rooting to be part of a mixed-use, vertical development?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 16, 2019, 12:46:40 PM
^No. Early in my career, I worked for a firm that laid out potential sites for Publix during the due diligence process. A 300 unit apartment complex isn't going to impact Publix's decision to locate. More like having an area of at least 20,000 people to pull from will.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on January 16, 2019, 12:49:17 PM
A lot of people get groceries at Walmart on Phillips too. Would that impact their desire to go into San Marco Square?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 16, 2019, 01:22:13 PM
While they may be committed to being an anchor, Publix isn't developing the shopping center.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: ProjectMaximus on January 17, 2019, 12:51:51 AM
I realize some of you guys are half-kidding with MusicMan but perhaps it went a little too far this time. I get MM wanting to defend himself since this is his livelihood and there's no reason to attack him to such a degree. Yes he makes some mistakes and occasionally misspeaks on these forums but imo he typically comes here with questions, not to act like some all-knowing commercial real estate guru. And on that note, I have worked with MM on a transaction and to be fair he did a good job on my behalf dealing with an institutional seller that was acting a bit difficult. It was an unusual circumstance and a good end result for me.

MM, the concept that seems out of your grasp is that breaking ground does not automatically equal success. Regency has the resources to develop the entire parcel themselves without partners or financing if they so chose, but they actually do right by their shareholders by holding out for the right opportunity, right partners, and right project. If this had been little ol' me and I purchased at the wrong time with financing I would have lost my shirt and had to dump it at a loss. Perhaps that would have been a win-win for the next guy and the neighborhood as most likely we would see development in that spot, but I would have been crushed. Regency is not some small potatoes group and they can afford to wait until this project works for them.

And evidently the time frame for commercial developers like Regency are much longer than other types of investors. 

Of course. No their time frames don't have to be much longer but they can afford to be patient when necessary. Small investors cannot wait something like this out.

Just curious about your opinion, what did Regency pay for all the "Publix in San Marco" parcels and what could they sell it for today?

No matter what they can sell it for today, unless it is a fluke or unwitting buyer, they would be better off keeping it for themselves, right? Doesn't that make sense? (I mean, assuming it is retail. If the best opportunity was without retail then obviously they'd sell and let someone else tackle that)
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on January 17, 2019, 08:48:01 AM
Thanks Max.  I am learning.  And while I am disappointed about the San Marco Publix site I did not 'attack' Regency or say they sucked.

And of course I remember the transaction with you. You were way ahead of the curve in that location! 
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kerry on January 18, 2019, 10:06:11 AM
A land value tax would get this project moving.  Regency wouldn't be able to afford doing nothing.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 18, 2019, 10:11:44 AM
I'm not sure that would do anything other than hurt multiple development projects and potential investments across the city.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kerry on January 18, 2019, 10:30:48 AM
I'm not sure that would do anything other than hurt multiple development projects and potential investments across the city.

Ummm, not sure how to respond other than to say taxing the land and not what is built on it would open up a wave of development not seen in Jax since 1902.  Every vacant lot would be under development in 12 months.  People sitting on vacant lots couldn't afford to do nothing.  That would have to develop it or sell to someone who would.

It would probably solve the affordable housing problem within 5 years.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 18, 2019, 11:19:26 AM
We already pay a property tax. Anything that isn't in alignment with market realities will only cause more harm. Simply raising the tax on land would not necessarily encourage development because there's only so much supply and demand out there. If a project isn't feasible under current conditions, adding to the financial burden of the property owner (in many cases, the property owner isn't the developer) isn't necessarily going to lead to redevelopment. You're more likely to shut down the growth you do have. There's also a social justice and equality issue (this solution would hurt the lower and middle class) that will likely end up with the city in court. All this for a freaking Publix on a specific site in San Marco sounds like overkill. Btw, if we want to solve the affordable housing problem, we should modify our zoning restrictions that stop market rate affordable housing developments from being viable.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kerry on January 18, 2019, 12:04:21 PM
The entire global urbanization community supports a land value tax.  That is how I found out about it.  Left-wing, right-wing, no-wing....it seems to be universaly accepted as the best way to urbanize cities and protect natural habitats.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kerry on January 18, 2019, 12:16:02 PM
Left Wing LVT video from Liberal Democrat Action on Land Tax and Economic Reform
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTxyNQ0ea-k

Right Wing LVT video from Dominic Frisbey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD_dZvPwAj0

No Wing LVT video from StrongTowns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok2uR3btMrE
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 18, 2019, 12:35:46 PM
A few videos doesn't mean things will necessarily be applicable to something locally that's highly questionable to be labeled a real problem.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kerry on January 18, 2019, 12:52:27 PM
Fine - just keep doing what we have been doing and hope for a different outcome.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 18, 2019, 01:34:03 PM
For a Publix in San Marco, on that site? Either Regency will develop it, it will sit empty or someone will buy it off them. By the same token, if that project fails there's other places Publix can go if they truly want to be in the area. I see no reason to change citywide policy to get a Publix to come to East San Marco.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: realestatejax on January 18, 2019, 01:38:53 PM
A land value tax would get this project moving.  Regency wouldn't be able to afford doing nothing.
No developer would ever do business again in Jacksonville.  Development is already risky and complicated enough.  Some times it works and some times it doesn't.  When it doesn't some sites linger until such time that it is feasible to develop.  By adding another level of risk you would run off every developer and nothing would get done. 
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kerry on January 18, 2019, 02:20:58 PM
I don't think you guys understand how a land value tax works.  If you don't know then educate yourself.  There is more than enough educational material out there.  Just Google "Land value tax"
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 18, 2019, 02:38:19 PM
Those guys aren't sitting on the property for the sake of sitting on it. A land value tax assumes the city in thriving. All areas of Jacksonville aren't. Placing more tax burden on Regency to immediately put a Publix there doesn't mean that development happens faster. There are a lot of things at play that additional taxation won't resolve.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kerry on January 18, 2019, 02:54:48 PM
If Regency could build on the lot TAX FREE you don't think that would play into their equation?  It removes a huge part of the cost of development.  220 Riverside got built in large part to the property tax rebate for 10 years - imagine a permanent tax free structure.  Developers wouldn't be able to build fast enough because it would significantly reduce the cost to build and own.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 18, 2019, 03:08:14 PM
You have to take things on a case-by-case basis. Property taxes aren't necessarily the issue that stand in between a grocery store happening with seven floors of concrete on top of it. That project and component has finally been scrapped. The current project is a completely different project with a different design and likely modification of the PUD. It hasn't been a year since the current project was announced. I wouldn't be too concerned about it at this point in time. As for a citywide tax abatement.....no way. We subsidize certain areas of town too much as is. That type of program should be reserved for economically struggling areas of town long ignored by the establishment in this city, not San Marco.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kerry on January 18, 2019, 04:13:32 PM
I'm really surprised you aren't a huge LVT supporter.  Oh well.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Steve on January 18, 2019, 05:01:09 PM
Following this...I don’t see Jacksonville as a city where Property Taxes are a major source of angst. Maybe I’m wrong though.

Compared to other cities, our taxes are really low.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 18, 2019, 05:22:05 PM
I'm really surprised you aren't a huge LVT supporter.  Oh well.
I don't see a need to change the city's tax structure for an already dead development proposal in San Marco. I'm confident Publix will find a way to add a store in the area if they really want one. If they don't and the market is viable, a competitor will.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxnyc79 on January 18, 2019, 05:41:38 PM
It is just a Publix > Publix is no urban savior.  I'm all for adding new dense residential to in-town neighborhoods, but I sort of hope the Publix plans for the site fizzle unless they're planning to blow our socks off with some sort of pedestrian-scale design that, in effect, creates a Part II of San Marco Square which happens to include a supermarket component.

I was reading up on The Gallery project in Jax Beach, described as a multi-structure campus (hopefully with a pedestrian orientation), and immediately thought, I'd much prefer this over some big-box Publix grocery store on a prime piece of property in what could someday be considered "Downtown San Marco...San Marco Square East"

In fact, such a multi-structure campus with mixed-use clusters has the potential to breathe street-level life into massive swaths of Brooklyn and LaVilla as well.  Perhaps such structures would better accommodate a multitude of proprietorships that symbolize a celebration of local heritage and flavor, with niche or specialized boutiques, with the artisans and craftsmen that will make urban Jax interesting and authentic for both its people and tourists.

I'm over the freaking Publix in San Marco.  The everywhere Publix.  Yes, I'm sure it's a convenience for nearby residents, but come on, most everyone in San Marco drives and based on that, it's not like San Marco is anything close to a food desert.

Maybe there's some merit to exploring how to better link tax policy to land use, but by God, please don't let a freaking Publix Grocery Store on a random patch of grass in San Marco be the driver of transformational tax policy changes.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on January 18, 2019, 06:36:10 PM
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I guess my disappointment stems from 10 years of nothing.  If it was just a nice pocket park that would be 100% better than a barren lot behind chain link.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jaxnyc79 on January 18, 2019, 06:44:34 PM
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I guess my disappointment stems from 10 years of nothing.  If it was just a nice pocket park that would be 100% better than a barren lot behind chain link.

If you stop and think about it, a patch of grass with a few mature oaks on it shouldn't really be that offensive!  I'd venture that you've allowed general, multi-dimensional frustrations with the state of urban Jax, the extent of suburban sprawl, and painstakingly slow progress toward broad revitalization, to sort of coalesce around this site and this project.  In truth, your frustration is far bigger than a Publix Grocery Store on San Marco green space, and a mere Publix, if built, is highly likely to underwhelm you.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: bill on January 18, 2019, 10:58:46 PM
I'm really surprised you aren't a huge LVT supporter.  Oh well.

Talking points by Ocasio Cortez
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: bl8jaxnative on January 19, 2019, 10:52:31 AM
but come on, most everyone in San Marco drives and based on that, it's not like San Marco is anything close to a food desert.

If you want to live a life where you can walk to the store for everything or even just bike, San Marco isn't any better than Mandarin or Argygle Forest.  There's nothing to walk to and you have to put in a big ride - an issue when carrying groceries - to get to a proper grocery. 
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on January 19, 2019, 11:19:39 AM
^btw, that's not my quote. Jaxnyc79 said that.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: sanmarcomatt on May 14, 2019, 08:31:59 AM
Update!!!!!! So you're saying there's a chance.......

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/regency-centers-offers-update-on-plans-for-san-marco-publix
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on May 14, 2019, 08:37:42 AM
I'd put money on this one getting out of the ground before the District, Shipyards, the Hart Bridge coming down or COJ issuing a RFP for the Landing's redevelopment after demolition....
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: sanmarcomatt on May 14, 2019, 08:43:13 AM
I'd put money on this one getting out of the ground before the District, Shipyards, the Hart Bridge coming down or COJ issuing a RFP for the Landing's redevelopment after demolition....

if infrastructure work on the District counts, I will take that bet.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Captain Zissou on May 14, 2019, 09:26:07 AM
Cue ignorant comments from Musicman in 3....2....1....
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kerry on May 14, 2019, 09:50:09 AM
I'm really surprised you aren't a huge LVT supporter.  Oh well.

Talking points by Ocasio Cortez

LVT is politically neutral.  It is however an Urbanist tax structure.  Suburbanites don't particularly like it because many have very large yards compared to the size of the home on it.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on May 14, 2019, 10:20:29 AM
Sorry Captain, late to the game this morning.

"“Knock on wood, hopefully we’ll have some positive news to report within the year,” Stein said."

I think that sums it up perfectly.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: sanmarcomatt on May 14, 2019, 10:26:07 AM

LVT is politically neutral.  It is however an Urbanist tax structure.  Suburbanites don't particularly like it because many have very large yards compared to the size of the home on it.

Considering the empty lots/demos/ surface parking lots in Jax, I have to admit I am surprised the LVT does not get more love here. I am not 100% for it but I would certainly like to see more incentive to improve property and a little less subsidizing done by owners that have actually done it.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Bativac on May 14, 2019, 01:05:17 PM
A good friend of mine is a civil engineer who grew up around the corner from this. (He lives out of state now.) In his mind it's a given that the current property owners are not going to build anything on it. His exact words were "when a developer wants to build something, they build it. They don't sit on a vacant piece of property for over a decade that isn't making them any money unless they think they can make more money selling it later on than they'll make building something on it." I don't know if I agree with him or not, but he's been in the industry for almost 20 years so he knows something of which he speaks. Sure wish something would happen to turn it into a non-vacant lot.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on May 14, 2019, 01:28:08 PM
Regency isn't exactly starving for cash.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on May 14, 2019, 01:30:06 PM
A good friend of mine is a civil engineer who grew up around the corner from this. (He lives out of state now.) In his mind it's a given that the current property owners are not going to build anything on it. His exact words were "when a developer wants to build something, they build it. They don't sit on a vacant piece of property for over a decade that isn't making them any money unless they think they can make more money selling it later on than they'll make building something on it." I don't know if I agree with him or not, but he's been in the industry for almost 20 years so he knows something of which he speaks. Sure wish something would happen to turn it into a non-vacant lot.

The history of the space has more to do with why it's sat vacant than the wishes of the owners. It was bought before the Great Recession and though someone could check, I don't think its value has recovered to that level. The owners weren't going to make their money back by selling, so their solution for getting a return was that complicated mixed use deal. As we saw, that fell through several times. Apparently, they're thinking they can get some level of return from just the commercial portion at some point. But I doubt they could (or believe they could) sit on the property long enough that the land value will recover, unless they're banking on another historic bubble.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: JBTripper on May 14, 2019, 08:14:44 PM
Sorry Captain, late to the game this morning.

"“Knock on wood, hopefully we’ll have some positive news to report within the year,” Stein said."

I think that sums it up perfectly.

We have identified the problem. They’ve been knocking on wood for 17 years instead of nailing it together.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: ProjectMaximus on May 15, 2019, 12:59:52 PM
A good friend of mine is a civil engineer who grew up around the corner from this. (He lives out of state now.) In his mind it's a given that the current property owners are not going to build anything on it. His exact words were "when a developer wants to build something, they build it. They don't sit on a vacant piece of property for over a decade that isn't making them any money unless they think they can make more money selling it later on than they'll make building something on it." I don't know if I agree with him or not, but he's been in the industry for almost 20 years so he knows something of which he speaks. Sure wish something would happen to turn it into a non-vacant lot.

This seems like decent logic. The difference is that in this case the owners/developers do retail only so they have been intending to sell part of it and develop part of it. It's not a project at this price point that they would develop by themselves.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on May 15, 2019, 09:51:49 PM
At this point I'm of the opinion a Trader Joe's would be a better idea/fit for the neighborhood. It's a smaller footprint, would draw from a broader surrounding area, and leaves more room for other retail.  I think a greater variety of vendors would want to be near TJ than Publix....
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Tacachale on May 16, 2019, 01:24:53 AM
TJ’s is fine but isn’t a replacement for Publix.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on May 18, 2019, 11:11:20 AM
I get that. I'm not saying it is a substitute. BUT, easy drive to nearest Publix. Hell of a drive to nearest Trader Joe's. TJ has plenty of room to expand in NE Florida, and IMO that would be a great spot for one. Or Main Street in Springfield. Either way, those locations would not take away enough sales from the existing stores to hurt their business.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Bativac on May 19, 2019, 01:31:20 PM
Why does Trader Joe's always seem to be the go-to suggestion? Have they expressed a lot of interest in moving to Jax? Or is it more of a "wouldn't it be nice" kind of thing?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: jagsonville on May 19, 2019, 03:51:01 PM
Why does Trader Joe's always seem to be the go-to suggestion? Have they expressed a lot of interest in moving to Jax? Or is it more of a "wouldn't it be nice" kind of thing?

We already have two in Jacksonville... a Trader Joe’s would actually make sense but Publix is going there, someday.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kiva on May 19, 2019, 06:44:46 PM
I get that. I'm not saying it is a substitute. BUT, easy drive to nearest Publix. Hell of a drive to nearest Trader Joe's. TJ has plenty of room to expand in NE Florida, and IMO that would be a great spot for one. Or Main Street in Springfield. Either way, those locations would not take away enough sales from the existing stores to hurt their business.
There is an empty supermarket on 8th and Hubbard in Springfield. Not sure about the square feet but a grocery store would do well there with all the new building in the area.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: civil42806 on May 20, 2019, 07:53:11 PM
But apparently not good enough for the previous grocery store.  I know a trader joes!!!!!!
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Kerry on May 20, 2019, 10:32:45 PM
Why does Trader Joe's always seem to be the go-to suggestion? Have they expressed a lot of interest in moving to Jax? Or is it more of a "wouldn't it be nice" kind of thing?

Because it has cult following, and the members of the cult think there should be one where they live.  The iPhone cult has the same members.  $1200 for an iPhone is why the can only afford $1.49 for dinner.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: MusicMan on May 21, 2019, 04:35:57 PM
Kerry, obviously you did not invest in Apple. That was a mistake my friend.

The answer is:  it has high quality goods at great prices, and is a great alternative to Publix or whatever store you go to instead.

It fills a niche market (call it a cult if you want, it won't hurt my feelings). 
 
According to "Supermarket News",  'Trader Joe’s ranked first among multichannel retailers in Forrester Research’s 2018 U.S. Customer Experience Index." 

Shoppers want high quality, great pricing, and friendly customer service. Trader Joe's is clearly hitting those marks with frequency.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: Bativac on May 21, 2019, 09:21:53 PM
Why does Trader Joe's always seem to be the go-to suggestion? Have they expressed a lot of interest in moving to Jax? Or is it more of a "wouldn't it be nice" kind of thing?

Because it has cult following, and the members of the cult think there should be one where they live.  The iPhone cult has the same members.  $1200 for an iPhone is why the can only afford $1.49 for dinner.

I mean, I love Trader Joe's but it's mostly because it's a short walk from me (in LA). Jax has Fresh Market and Earth Fare and other natural foods type places that are just as good, product-wise. How about courting one of them?

Really, one of those pocket parks Jax is fond of would be better than the vacant lot. Or maybe another dog park. Are there any old Skinners Dairy buildings left they could stick in there for the time being? Maybe mow it and lease the space to hot dog vendors?
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: copperfiend on May 22, 2019, 08:37:01 AM
If you know someone that says that don't get why Trader Joe's is so popular, drop some blueberry goat cheese on them.

TJ's is a good supplementary store. I still go to Publix for most of my shopping. But go to Trader Joe's for some types of snacks and frozen foods. It is also good if you are travelling as they have a lot of small package and ready to eat items.

When I go to DC for work, I stay around the corner from one by GWU and it's awesome.
Title: Re: San Marco Publix Site Plan and Renderings
Post by: KenFSU on May 22, 2019, 09:00:51 AM
If you know someone that says that don't get why Trader Joe's is so popular, drop some blueberry goat cheese on them.

Damn straight.

I could eat it like corn on the cob and be happy.