The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => The Burbs => Southside => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on June 11, 2016, 03:00:04 AM

Title: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: Metro Jacksonville on June 11, 2016, 03:00:04 AM
5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Development/Town-Center-Retail/i-fGRr9RN/0/L/PGP-GENERAL_Page_4-L.jpg)

In a few months, the area around St. Johns Town Center will radically change. Here's a brief look at five major retail developments coming soon to Gate and Town Center Parkways.


Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2016-jun-5-major-retail-projects-coming-to-town-center
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: southsider1015 on June 11, 2016, 07:30:37 AM
Nice article and research.

But someone might want to inform PGP that their graphic is wrong.  JTB is SR 202, not 275.

Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: brainstormer on June 11, 2016, 11:06:53 AM
I like the intent of Mill Dam Branch and hope they can stick to their plan as they develop. Kind of reminds me of the charm of the Town Center when it first opened or of developments like Tapestry Park.

Does anyone have the potential traffic estimations for when all of this is fully built out? So many people avoid the Town Center already, I just wonder if congestion will eventually be a tipping point for the sustainability of the area.
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: spuwho on June 11, 2016, 08:39:09 PM
In a prior post someone mentioned that there are going to be some extensive upgrades of the Gate / Town Center Pkwy intersection.

But the biggest planning issue they are going to face is the Gate Parkway off ramps on JTB.  They already face chronic backups, where in some cases it is dangerous.

If / when Ikea comes around, that will cause further problems on Gate.

Town Center is now on its 25-30 year life cycle. Around 2030, Nocatee Town Center will start draining off people tired of the traffic hassle.
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: southsider1015 on June 12, 2016, 08:49:44 AM
In a prior post someone mentioned that there are going to be some extensive upgrades of the Gate / Town Center Pkwy intersection.

But the biggest planning issue they are going to face is the Gate Parkway off ramps on JTB.  They already face chronic backups, where in some cases it is dangerous.

If / when Ikea comes around, that will cause further problems on Gate.

Town Center is now on its 25-30 year life cycle. Around 2030, Nocatee Town Center will start draining off people tired of the traffic hassle.

FDOT is adding another aux lane on WB JTB to Gate Pkwy, making it a dual off-ramp.  And that'll help things on JTB, but Gate Pkwy already can't handle it's current traffic nor this future traffic.

If you're the master developer, and you know that masses will shop here regardless of how bad the traffic gets, would you spend the extra money for the appropriate roadway design and related traffic improvements to ease traffic?  Apparently not.
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: brainstormer on June 12, 2016, 09:44:23 AM
^ Or perhaps stop the insane building of individual isolated stores/restaurants all surrounded by their own sea of asphalt with no safe way to walk from one to another. The terrible design forces people into thinking that they have to drive from one building to the next thus adding to the congestion.

The original Town Center had the right idea. All of the development on the fringes has been horrible.
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: thelakelander on June 13, 2016, 08:56:33 AM
Topgolf:

http://topgolf.com/us/company/press-room/press-releases/2015/topgolf-swings-into-jacksonville-continues-florida-expansion/
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: mbwright on June 13, 2016, 09:01:03 AM
I avoided this area 5 years ago, when not as bad.  It is much worse now.  Hard to see that all of the street capacity is in place to handle the total traffic without it being a total mess.  So glad I don't live in the area.  While this type of development is popular, driving is essential, since the heat and rain this time of year make shopping not as enjoyable. 
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: KenFSU on June 13, 2016, 09:51:24 AM
The terrible design forces people into thinking that they have to drive from one building to the next thus adding to the congestion.

Seems like an integrated shuttle loop with lots of clearly defined stops and a few satellite lots would practically print money. Connect to Tinseltown, UNF and maybe Top Golf/IKEA too and you've got a pretty damn useful system.

Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: Dapperdan on June 13, 2016, 10:06:47 AM
The terrible design forces people into thinking that they have to drive from one building to the next thus adding to the congestion.

Seems like an integrated shuttle loop with lots of clearly defined stops and a few satellite lots would practically print money. Connect to Tinseltown, UNF and maybe Top Golf/IKEA too and you've got a pretty damn useful system.



But then you run into the afore mentioned problem. Where is the Town Center stop going to be? in a  sea of asphalt? If they maybe had a stop at each development within the town center, that may work, but the entire thing is totally un-walkable and unsafe especially in summer.
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: Tacachale on June 13, 2016, 10:20:35 AM
Those SJTC additions have some truly terrible site plans.
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: KenFSU on June 13, 2016, 10:51:02 AM
The terrible design forces people into thinking that they have to drive from one building to the next thus adding to the congestion.

Seems like an integrated shuttle loop with lots of clearly defined stops and a few satellite lots would practically print money. Connect to Tinseltown, UNF and maybe Top Golf/IKEA too and you've got a pretty damn useful system.



But then you run into the afore mentioned problem. Where is the Town Center stop going to be? in a  sea of asphalt? If they maybe had a stop at each development within the town center, that may work, but the entire thing is totally un-walkable and unsafe especially in summer.

Unwalkable, sure.

But unsafe, is there some empirical evidence to back this up? I can't recall ever hearing of a pedestrian being seriously injured at the Town Center, and the place has been open for a decade now. If you look both ways and observe the crosswalks, it's certainly no more dangerous than Five Points, or Riverside, or Manhattan, or any other area with heavy pedestrian and vehicular traffic.
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: thelakelander on June 13, 2016, 11:06:13 AM
^Why would anyone have to cross Town Center Parkway? There's nothing there right now. Once the new developments come up, we'll have a better idea of the danger involving pedestrians trying to cross a six lane surburban highway. One thing that will help will be congestion. Once all the new places are built out, good luck trying to get up to 45mph on that stretch.
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: JaxAvondale on June 13, 2016, 11:15:45 AM
I had to go to "Town Center" in Nashville and the traffic was much worse than the SJTC. The area wasn't even that busy. It had more to do with the flow of traffic. So, I can understand the concerns. Building an exit at 9A & JTB would have allievated a lot of issues.
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: copperfiend on June 13, 2016, 11:27:31 AM
I honestly do not even want to imagine what the traffic will be like once these are done. It's at the point now where the only trips to the Town Center I make are to Costco and I generally go when they open Sunday morning or weekday evenings.
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: KenFSU on June 13, 2016, 11:43:59 AM
^Why would anyone have to cross Town Center Parkway? There's nothing there right now. Once the new developments come up, we'll have a better idea of the danger involving pedestrians trying to cross a six lane surburban highway. One thing that will help will be congestion. Once all the new places are built out, good luck trying to get up to 45mph on that stretch.

Think there's any chance of an elevated pedestrian walkway (or two)?
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: seaspray on June 13, 2016, 12:55:42 PM
After all this development happens, hopefully my property there goes up in value, and I can sell and gtfo
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: thelakelander on June 13, 2016, 01:04:19 PM
^Why would anyone have to cross Town Center Parkway? There's nothing there right now. Once the new developments come up, we'll have a better idea of the danger involving pedestrians trying to cross a six lane surburban highway. One thing that will help will be congestion. Once all the new places are built out, good luck trying to get up to 45mph on that stretch.

Think there's any chance of an elevated pedestrian walkway (or two)?

Not unless the public pays for it. There's no benefit in any of the developers spending $3 to $4 million for one.  If COJ has that type of cash for a ped overpass, they'd better put one over the Arlington Expressway first.
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: Thessarabian on June 17, 2016, 03:29:25 PM
^Why would anyone have to cross Town Center Parkway? There's nothing there right now. Once the new developments come up, we'll have a better idea of the danger involving pedestrians trying to cross a six lane surburban highway. One thing that will help will be congestion. Once all the new places are built out, good luck trying to get up to 45mph on that stretch.

Think there's any chance of an elevated pedestrian walkway (or two)?

I hope they would do that, and it would be really great if they did one across JTB once the development just south of JTB comes in. Keep in mind, though, that if you're shopping and have stuff to carry you're less likely to walk since it would mean carrying things. IKEA is going to bring a lot more traffic to 295/Gate because who goes to IKEA and doesn't come away with bulky items or furniture? I mean sure, I'll go there once or twice just for the swedish meatballs, but in most cases I'm going there with a list.
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: spuwho on June 17, 2016, 09:08:16 PM
JTA has a bus stop in the middle of TC with a covered waiting area.

Also SJTC has started a shuttle service that runs from one end (Nordstrom) down to the loop around Maggianos.

Now this isnt a glorious air conditioned bus, its a 4 row golf cart, but it is a start. It only stays on the main TC campus.

I have asked why open air malls like SJTC dont have a better way to get around to each store and the answer was pretty simple.

The "Town Center" format is popular because it has very low CAM. (Common Area Maintenance).  This makes rent cheaper than most indoor malls.

A recirculator would require a major boost in CAM to cover its expense to build and operate. Why would Mayors jewelery pay a 15% up charge in their rent so its easier for someone to reach Target?

Also you are dealing with different property owners now on both sides of TC Parkway. Why would Books A Million pay a 15% upcharge on their rent so someone could get to Barnes & Noble across the street?

This leaves it to either charging a fare to cover it or leaving it to the public through a transit agency.

Maybe we can convince Mr. Maglev from Orlando to build here too? Lake would be behind that (not).
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: ProjectMaximus on February 07, 2017, 12:52:26 PM
Hines' project: "Southside"

http://jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=549300
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: KenFSU on October 15, 2018, 09:28:40 PM
Blackfinn is done.

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/10/15/blackfinn-ameripub-near-st-johns-town-center-shuts.html

I'd expect to see more restaurant closures in the next year as the Town Center dining scene reaches oversaturation and the existing restaurants begin to cannabalize each other.
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: copperfiend on October 16, 2018, 07:41:06 AM
Blackfinn is done.

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/10/15/blackfinn-ameripub-near-st-johns-town-center-shuts.html

I'd expect to see more restaurant closures in the next year as the Town Center dining scene reaches oversaturation and the existing restaurants begin to cannabalize each other.

In the article it mentions that several other locations of the chain have closed also.
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: thelakelander on October 16, 2018, 12:06:46 PM
I never made it to the place. How was it?
Title: Re: 5 Major Retail Projects Coming to Town Center
Post by: Steve on October 16, 2018, 12:31:23 PM
I never made it to the place. How was it?

Meh. Food wasn't their strong suit.