The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on March 07, 2016, 03:00:04 AM

Title: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Metro Jacksonville on March 07, 2016, 03:00:04 AM
Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/600-Park-Street/i-t5qJHVj/1/L/20160310_DDRB Agenda Packet_Page_24-L.jpg)



Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2016-mar-medical-office-building-proposed-in-brooklyn
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: johnnyliar on March 07, 2016, 08:14:32 AM
This looks a hell of a lot better than 616.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Captain Zissou on March 07, 2016, 08:45:11 AM
I'd like a little more density, but this does look like they made an effort to comply with urban design principles (sea of parking aside). It's not bad.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: jaxlore on March 07, 2016, 09:05:33 AM
Meh. Pretty bland.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Steve on March 07, 2016, 10:37:42 AM
It's okay. I'd love to see them "flip" the first floor layout on it's horizontal axis, so the retail is at the corner of Park and Roselle instead of at park and the private drive.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: thelakelander on March 07, 2016, 10:51:30 AM
The building is what you'll find common in the burbs but I'm fine with it. It meets the street well and it's an improvement over what's sitting on those properties today.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: CCMjax on March 07, 2016, 10:58:53 AM
I like the design, it is simple but seems to be good quality and functional.  However, I know it is probably owner driven and the result of current conditions, but they could probably do away with the surface lot on the Park side of the site if employees were expected to be able to walk the 1 block from the 2 massively huge parking garages down the street that can't possibly be full even during heavy hours.  We cannot afford to keep developing sites that only utilize 10% of the site for the actual building it was intended for with the rest being dedicated almost exclusively to parking.  We can't keep doing this in suburban settings let alone more urban settings.  Perhaps down the road when Brooklyn fills in a little more street facing property on Park may be more valuable and they could develop storefront between the proposed building and the adjacent property.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: thelakelander on March 07, 2016, 11:06:52 AM
I understand what you're saying but I don't believe either of those garages are public.

Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: urbanlibertarian on March 07, 2016, 11:27:03 AM
Looks fine to me.  During the 80's, 616 was B&B Liquors. Package store and lounge.  It was the after work watering hole for area evening shift workers (Times Union, railroad, print shop, Kings Rd post office, etc.).  Ahhhh.  Good times.  :-)
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: UNFurbanist on March 07, 2016, 12:02:26 PM
The building is an improvement but like everyone else, I really don't like the huge amount of parking. Brooklyn already has too much of a suburban design for where it is next to DTJax. We already see how it and the southbank are pretty much just big office parks instead of urban neighborhoods. However, investment is good. I hope the DDRB at least gives a little push back on the size of the parking lot.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: CCMjax on March 07, 2016, 12:29:38 PM
I understand what you're saying but I don't believe either of those garages are public.

I understand what you are saying but is there a way to share?  My five year old has been learning that concept for a while now and it seems pretty basic.   Seems silly to have two mammoth parking garages solely dedicated to the larger companies that may own them.  Especially if there are plenty of spots typically available if it can cut back on the required dedicated parking in the surrounding area.  Just a thought.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Sandyfeets on March 07, 2016, 12:32:29 PM
At last the old abandoned McDonald's will be gone. 
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: urbanlibertarian on March 07, 2016, 12:43:58 PM
My experience with getting mohs done is that the patient can be there most of the day.  They remove a layer of the lesion and then you wait for the pathologist to determine if what's left is cancer free.  They remove another layer and test again if necessary.  This means MANY patients waiting through testing periods thus the need for a lot of parking.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kerry on March 07, 2016, 01:49:46 PM
That is a lot of parking.  Park could use a diet and add some on-street parking.  I would like to see the lot fronting Park be eliminated along with the ingress/egress directly on Park.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Steve on March 07, 2016, 02:01:37 PM
I understand what you're saying but I don't believe either of those garages are public.

I understand what you are saying but is there a way to share?  My five year old has been learning that concept for a while now and it seems pretty basic.   Seems silly to have two mammoth parking garages solely dedicated to the larger companies that may own them.  Especially if there are plenty of spots typically available if it can cut back on the required dedicated parking in the surrounding area.  Just a thought.

There has to be something in it for the parking garage owners. One is Florida Blue, the other is FNF/FIS/Black Knight. Florida Blue's garage is full from 9-5 Mon-Fri - if it wasn't, they'd sell the riverfront lot they also own. Fidelity's isn't full, but I think you'd be hard pressed with them allowing outside folks in there.

Though I agree with the road diet (one lane in either direction is fine), the biggest issue is economics. The reason that they build large lots? They can....land is cheap. If you look at Riverside, it's not often that people build parking lots, because the land is much more valuable as a building then a parking lot. Right now, that's not the case in that particular area.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: UNFurbanist on March 07, 2016, 02:19:16 PM
^This point is very true. Until more and more investments like this come, the land will remain cheap. However, the irony is that once that tipping point is reached it might already be too late and Brooklyn will mostly be a big jumble of suburban style parking lots. Maybe at that point businesses will parcel off their lots for other developments but I fear that is a long ways off.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kerry on March 07, 2016, 02:24:05 PM
Exactly^.  The City needs to get out in front of this so it is done right the first time and we can avoid retrofitting.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Riverrat on March 07, 2016, 02:35:19 PM
So sad to see 616 gone! They had the best Sunday afternoon parties. That said, this does look much better than the two vacant buildings that sit there now. I also appreciate that they went to the street with it. This is a "fine enough" project for the current situation.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Steve on March 07, 2016, 02:41:32 PM
^This point is very true. Until more and more investments like this come, the land will remain cheap. However, the irony is that once that tipping point is reached it might already be too late and Brooklyn will mostly be a big jumble of suburban style parking lots. Maybe at that point businesses will parcel off their lots for other developments but I fear that is a long ways off.

In concept I agree, but we're seeing this happen in a positive way in some cases. For example, the YMCA was just going to build a big parking lot on the site of their current building; now they want to sell it. This particular one isn't bad; they could always dump part of the lots at any time and sell them. That's another reason to move the retail to the corner of Park and Roselle. The lot on Park would likely be the first one to attract interest, and you hate to have the entry against what could be a blank wall.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: urbanlibertarian on March 07, 2016, 02:48:43 PM
This clinic is risking a lot of private money betting they can be successful at that location.  If COJ pushes changes that make it more risky then we may get less development in that economically depressed area.  Let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: UNFurbanist on March 07, 2016, 03:26:20 PM
^Agreed. Just making an observation. Ultimately this is good news... I'd like to start hearing more about all of these other supposedly proposed projects in Brooklyn which Lakelander has been alluding to ;) Like whatever happened to that hotel project?
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Captain Zissou on March 07, 2016, 03:43:38 PM
This clinic is risking a lot of private money betting they can be successful at that location.  If COJ pushes changes that make it more risky then we may get less development in that economically depressed area.  Let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

A few design changes doesn't necessarily mean added costs.  Let's not let the city lay down for developers.   
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: CCMjax on March 07, 2016, 04:26:13 PM
^This point is very true. Until more and more investments like this come, the land will remain cheap. However, the irony is that once that tipping point is reached it might already be too late and Brooklyn will mostly be a big jumble of suburban style parking lots. Maybe at that point businesses will parcel off their lots for other developments but I fear that is a long ways off.

In concept I agree, but we're seeing this happen in a positive way in some cases. For example, the YMCA was just going to build a big parking lot on the site of their current building; now they want to sell it. This particular one isn't bad; they could always dump part of the lots at any time and sell them. That's another reason to move the retail to the corner of Park and Roselle. The lot on Park would likely be the first one to attract interest, and you hate to have the entry against what could be a blank wall.

What you are suggesting is exactly what I was eluding to.  This is what would happen in a perfect world.  As soon as land values go up, the owner sells the Park frontage to some developer (or develops it themselves) and it goes from parking lot to storefront and there is street parking on Park, however, based on what has been done in the past, once it is initially constructed as surface parking, I see it being a parking lot for 20 years minimum.  Just like Brooklyn Station, the unfortunate part of that design is they initially constructed the surface parking right up to Riverside Ave, and it will likely remain that way for a couple decades thus casting a pseudo-suburban shadow over the area just blocks from downtown for some time to come, unless land value skyrockets.  Or unless they have some other phase planned that develops the streetfront when the market demands it which I'm not aware of.  It would be much much better to get it right during the initial design and construction, but I also understand the financial aspect and owner's perspective with the current situation.  That land is cheap right now and that is why they purchased it.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kerry on March 07, 2016, 04:57:22 PM
If building in a suburban style ultimately leads to urban density when the land runs out...then why has it never happened anywhere?  Jax is littered with old buildings with giant parking lots.  When does the urbanism start on those parking lots?
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: UNFurbanist on March 07, 2016, 05:00:53 PM
Here? Never.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Steve on March 07, 2016, 05:29:22 PM
If building in a suburban style ultimately leads to urban density when the land runs out...then why has it never happened anywhere?  Jax is littered with old buildings with giant parking lots.  When does the urbanism start on those parking lots?

When the economics of developing the land improve. In Riverside it's happened a fair bit-look at 1661 and Black Sheep. The problem is that the economics of downtown aren't good. Until someone can make money developing say a 20 story high rise apartment tower and charge enough rent to cover themselves, we're going to struggle. Part of it is also that people view their land as much more valuable than it is IMO.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: thelakelander on March 07, 2016, 05:41:50 PM
If building in a suburban style ultimately leads to urban density when the land runs out...then why has it never happened anywhere?  Jax is littered with old buildings with giant parking lots.  When does the urbanism start on those parking lots?

Urbanism started over 100 years ago and we slaughtered most of it over the last 60 years. It won't be magically reappearing at a grand scale anytime soon. It will be baby steps for smaller markets like Jax that are slow to embrace and facilitate national trends.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kerry on March 07, 2016, 06:18:10 PM
So why even go down the path of "we will fill it in later" if the economics will probably never be there to do it?  For this project they just need to eliminate the parking lot fronting Park.  63 parking spaces for a clinic with 7 exam rooms is more than excessive.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: thelakelander on March 07, 2016, 06:30:32 PM
I haven't looked into their parking needs, but the clinic only occupies a portion of the bottom floor. The second floor would be leased out. Depending on the type company locating upstairs and the popularity of the retail space, those spaces could very well be needed. So I can't say one way or another that their parking needs are excessive.

Imo, "We will fill it in later" probably occurs at the end of this new building's self life.  For example, it's replacing two suburban buildings (with lower density) that have probably been there for 40 or 50 years. Before them, there were probably houses on those sites.  So over a course of a century, the economics have changed. Unfortunately, that snail's pace isn't quick enough when compared to some of the first tier boom towns.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kay on March 07, 2016, 08:14:57 PM
This site plan needs to be challenged.  We should really try to create an urban streetscape on Park St.  That means parking lots fronting Park St. would not happen.  The entry can be solely on Rosselle. 
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kerry on March 07, 2016, 08:30:23 PM
This site plan needs to be challenged.  We should really try to create an urban streetscape on Park St.  That means parking lots fronting Park St. would not happen.  The entry can be solely on Rosselle.

Agree 100%
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: thelakelander on March 07, 2016, 09:26:16 PM
Well, according to the code, their minimum parking requirement is 18 spaces. So I guess the DDRB could limit them to less than the requested 63. With that said, DDRB staff is recommending approval if the board grants them their parking deviation.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: JaxAvondale on March 07, 2016, 10:34:53 PM
The parking in the back of the property already exists. The new parking appears to be for the retail shop. So, it seems highly unlikely that DDRB would tell them to reduce the parking.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kerry on March 07, 2016, 11:03:20 PM
Does anyone know if there is a citizens group that is active in the Brooklyn area.  As I said earlier, I just moved to this area and would like to be involved in helping the area grow into a dense walking-based neighborhood.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: ProjectMaximus on March 07, 2016, 11:42:30 PM
Just like Brooklyn Station, the unfortunate part of that design is they initially constructed the surface parking right up to Riverside Ave, and it will likely remain that way for a couple decades thus casting a pseudo-suburban shadow over the area just blocks from downtown for some time to come, unless land value skyrockets. 

The best we can hope for is a skyway station coming down in front of that lot to disguise the suburban layout.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: thelakelander on March 08, 2016, 05:59:35 AM
Does anyone know if there is a citizens group that is active in the Brooklyn area.  As I said earlier, I just moved to this area and would like to be involved in helping the area grow into a dense walking-based neighborhood.
There used to be one. However, most of the old school Brooklyn residents have been replaced by newcomers, so I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Tacachale on March 08, 2016, 04:01:46 PM
Does anyone know if there is a citizens group that is active in the Brooklyn area.  As I said earlier, I just moved to this area and would like to be involved in helping the area grow into a dense walking-based neighborhood.
There used to be one. However, most of the old school Brooklyn residents have been replaced by newcomers, so I'm not sure.

When was that? Most of the old residents were replaced with, well, nothing long before the new developments got off the ground. All I've heard recently was the attempt to landmark some of the old buildings, which the residents rejected.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: thelakelander on March 08, 2016, 05:19:26 PM
When I first came to town, there were charrettes going on concerning Brooklyn and the Riverside Avenue widening. At the time, I met the Brooklyn Neighborhood Association's President Ayesha Covington. Since that time, most of the neighborhood was removed for the a dead project that eventually became Brooklyn Riverside and Shoppes of Riverside.  Today, I'm not sure if the Brooklyn Neighborhood Association is still around.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: thelakelander on March 08, 2016, 05:21:04 PM
In this 2011 article,  they were still around:

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-08-30/story/jacksonville-neighborhood-leader-questions-police-response-illegal-park

Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kay on March 08, 2016, 08:45:00 PM
Does anyone know if there is a citizens group that is active in the Brooklyn area.  As I said earlier, I just moved to this area and would like to be involved in helping the area grow into a dense walking-based neighborhood.
There used to be one. However, most of the old school Brooklyn residents have been replaced by newcomers, so I'm not sure.

When was that? Most of the old residents were replaced with, well, nothing long before the new developments got off the ground. All I've heard recently was the attempt to landmark some of the old buildings, which the residents rejected.

My understanding is it would have passed except one owner of multiple properties voted against it and he got to cast a vote for each property.  And he isn't someone who lives there.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kay on March 08, 2016, 08:47:08 PM
Does anyone know if there is a citizens group that is active in the Brooklyn area.  As I said earlier, I just moved to this area and would like to be involved in helping the area grow into a dense walking-based neighborhood.

There is no active group at this time in Brooklyn.  If you live in one of the new apartment buildings, can you see if you can get even a small group interested in advocating for good urban design?
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kerry on March 08, 2016, 08:57:56 PM
Does anyone know if there is a citizens group that is active in the Brooklyn area.  As I said earlier, I just moved to this area and would like to be involved in helping the area grow into a dense walking-based neighborhood.

There is no active group at this time in Brooklyn.  If you live in one of the new apartment buildings, can you see if you can get even a small group interested in advocating for good urban design?

I wouldn't even begin to know where to start, but if there any like-minded people in the area I would be willing to participate.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: ProjectMaximus on March 08, 2016, 09:48:45 PM
Start with Alex Coley since he claimed he would be a resident.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Captain Zissou on March 09, 2016, 09:12:32 AM
Construction fences are going up around this site today. 
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: thelakelander on March 09, 2016, 09:31:30 AM
That was quick. No months of press releases and slick renderings for the public to dream about.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kerry on March 09, 2016, 09:51:46 AM
Probably for the demolition.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Steve on March 09, 2016, 11:04:56 AM
^Could be, which brings a frustration. If they demolish this than build nothing we are left with an empty lot. Have they even pulled permits for the new building?
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: thelakelander on March 09, 2016, 11:38:40 AM
Doubt it. They need to get past the DDRB before pulling permits.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kerry on March 09, 2016, 11:59:10 AM
This something that has always bothered me.  There should be no such thing as a demo permit.  The demo approval should be inherent in the building permit.  Don't tear anything down until you are ready to build something to replace it.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: brainstormer on March 09, 2016, 07:31:29 PM
That was quick. No months of press releases and slick renderings for the public to dream about.

No kidding. I sat down with the owner for dinner last night, and this was actually a rather late change to the original plans which were for a different use altogether.

Was the original proposed use something better than a medical office building?
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: CCMjax on March 09, 2016, 08:21:13 PM
^What's wrong with a medical office building?  Or any office building at this location?  It is activity in an area of Brooklyn that has seen better days.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: brainstormer on March 09, 2016, 08:53:29 PM
^What's wrong with a medical office building?  Or any office building at this location?  It is activity in an area of Brooklyn that has seen better days.

I'm actually okay with the office building. My question was more out of curiosity for the original plan and the reasons behind the change. The office building is definitely better than what is currently there.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kay on March 10, 2016, 07:50:34 AM
Both this project and the Gate gas station will be going before DDRB at 2 p.m. today.  People need to show up if they can.  Maybe Ennis can post location and email addresses of committee members.

These are the first new developments on Park St. other than the apartments. The gas station is much worse than the medical building but even that site needs improvement.  This is the opportunity to get Park St. right or damn it to continue to be an example of what not to do in an urban environment. 
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Steve on March 10, 2016, 12:11:24 PM
^I would love to but I can't:(
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Captain Zissou on March 10, 2016, 01:24:28 PM
There's an excavator on site tearing down the two buildings today.  If this doesn't make it through the DDRB, there are going to be some vacant lots for a while.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: CCMjax on March 10, 2016, 02:19:42 PM
There's an excavator on site tearing down the two buildings today.  If this doesn't make it through the DDRB, there are going to be some vacant lots for a while.

I can't say I'm going to shed any tears over losing those two buildings, even if they do remain empty lots for a while.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: FlaBoy on March 10, 2016, 03:46:16 PM
I like the doctor's office. It is built for a walkable environment. I think once 5 Points and Brooklyn begin to truly hit their stride many of these lots will end up being built out as apartments (at least I hope).
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kerry on March 10, 2016, 06:09:15 PM
As long as they keep building parking lots fronting the streets the area won't hit it's stride.  It is like trying to run with an open parachute on.  If parking lots give way to eventual development then how come it never happens?
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: thelakelander on March 10, 2016, 06:47:52 PM
In this particular spot, it shouldn't be too bad. The parking lot facing Park is only 60' wide and other than the 24' wide entrance, the rest will be hidden from the street by a wall and landscaping. While it's not the ideal urban design, it's nowhere near the amount of asphalt sitting in front of Fresh Market or 220 Riverside. This little office project and the leg of parking off its Park Street entrance won't be the thing that keeps the area from hitting its stride.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: edjax on March 10, 2016, 06:54:25 PM
So what happened at the meeting with this and Gate?
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kay on March 10, 2016, 09:47:03 PM
I was the only one there from the public to speak about each project.  We really need folks who care about developing our urban environment in the right way to show up to this stuff.  Seriously.  Where are you folks? 

DDRB approved the conceptual design for the medical office.  I was not there for the entire conversation about this one. but I think there was talk about either removing some of the parking spaces along Park or relocating them.

DDRB did not approve the conceptual design of the Gate station.  They will hold a workshop with Gate on March 24 at 10 a.m.  It is open to the public.  Committee members did a good job explaining how getting this right will increase foot traffic on Park St. just like it has on Riverside Ave.  They want the building moved to the front.  They like the design of the building (it is not the one shown on this sight).  I agree that the building design is good.  DDRB has a real problem with the site plan.  Thank God!

I believe Gate has no intention of changing the site plan and will instead spend the time telling DDRB why the site plan cannot be changed.  Gate insists they need a loading zone behind the convenience store and therefore no other site layout is possible.  To have such a bad site plan for an urban area dictated by a loading area is ludicrous to me. 

Gate wants final approval in mid-April.  I hope DDRB stands firm and does not approve the current site plan.  If gas stations can be designed to fit urban areas in other cities, there simply is no excuse not to do it here.  Perhaps they have to sacrifice some of the pumps.  I mean where is there a gas station with 24 pumps?
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kay on March 10, 2016, 09:49:24 PM
In this particular spot, it shouldn't be too bad. The parking lot facing Park is only 60' wide and other than the 24' wide entrance, the rest will be hidden from the street by a wall and landscaping. While it's not the ideal urban design, it's nowhere near the amount of asphalt sitting in front of Fresh Market or 220 Riverside. This little office project and the leg of parking off its Park Street entrance won't be the thing that keeps the area from hitting its stride.

The drive entrance does not have to be 24 feet wide.  We've reduced two-way vehicle access to 20 feet in Riverside.  Perhaps they can do one-way in on Park to make the drive access even narrower.  The applicant is concerned that old people won't be able to find a parking lot in the rear with a Park St. address.  I think they'd figure it out.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: thelakelander on March 10, 2016, 10:04:28 PM
I was the only one there from the public to speak about each project.  We really need folks who care about developing our urban environment in the right way to show up to this stuff.  Seriously.  Where are you folks?

In my case...work. Right now, I have to pick and choose the minimal amount of time I can dedicate to leaving the office during work hours. With these two particular projects, neither pricked my heart enough to spend PTO on them.

Quote
They like the design of the building (it is not the one shown on this sight).  I agree that the building design is good.  DDRB has a real problem with the site plan.  Thank God!

Did they show something different from the drawings below?

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Gate-Brooklyn/i-r9RrfG6/0/L/20160310_DDRB%20Agenda%20Packet_Page_79-L.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Gate-Brooklyn/i-dzhPn7r/0/L/20160310_DDRB%20Agenda%20Packet_Page_86-L.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Gate-Brooklyn/i-7xXsNnc/0/L/20160310_DDRB%20Agenda%20Packet_Page_85-L.jpg)

Quote
I believe Gate has no intention of changing the site plan and will instead spend the time telling DDRB why the site plan cannot be changed.  Gate insists they need a loading zone behind the convenience store and therefore no other site layout is possible.  To have such a bad site plan for an urban area dictated by a loading area is ludicrous to me.

This stuff isn't rocket science.  The site is a square.  They can rotate it four different ways and still end up with a loading zone adjacent to the building.....while putting the outdoor dining area right on Park.  I know because I did a scaled quick sketch for giggles at my desk the other day.  I'll try and scan it tomorrow. 

Quote
Gate wants final approval in mid-April.  I hope DDRB stands firm and does not approve the current site plan.  If gas stations can be designed to fit urban areas in other cities, there simply is no excuse not to do it here.  Perhaps they have to sacrifice some of the pumps.  I mean where is there a gas station with 24 pumps?

They don't have to sacrifice anything.  They have a pretty large site already. It's a square and buildings can be rotated in multiple ways without sacrificing circulation, parking, square footage or number of pumps.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kay on March 10, 2016, 11:04:32 PM
I was the only one there from the public to speak about each project.  We really need folks who care about developing our urban environment in the right way to show up to this stuff.  Seriously.  Where are you folks? 

You mean all the people you described a couple of days ago as mere posters on some blog? ;)


I'm hoping those of you posting on this board find a way to reach out to Gate and ask them to do lots better.  And show up at DDRB to weigh in there.  It is going to take a lot more than a post on a blog.

probably would have been a great idea to respond to this post:

What's the contact info for the DDRB? This "post on a blog" will be useful for showing examples of the kind of thing the city should be expecting in the urban core.

Would love to help out, as you know. Perhaps the groups should have a bit more cooperation again.  The economy is getting better which means that things will start happening at a more rapid pace, and we all need to return to our 'a' game.

If the shoe fits.  You have to get involved to make a difference.  Why didn't you guys respond to that request?  I think I suggested Ennis could post the location of the meeting, the committee members, etc. 
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kay on March 10, 2016, 11:06:55 PM
I was the only one there from the public to speak about each project.  We really need folks who care about developing our urban environment in the right way to show up to this stuff.  Seriously.  Where are you folks?

In my case...work. Right now, I have to pick and choose the minimal amount of time I can dedicate to leaving the office during work hours. With these two particular projects, neither pricked my heart enough to spend PTO on them.

Quote
They like the design of the building (it is not the one shown on this sight).  I agree that the building design is good.  DDRB has a real problem with the site plan.  Thank God!

Did they show something different from the drawings below?

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Gate-Brooklyn/i-r9RrfG6/0/L/20160310_DDRB%20Agenda%20Packet_Page_79-L.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Gate-Brooklyn/i-dzhPn7r/0/L/20160310_DDRB%20Agenda%20Packet_Page_86-L.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Gate-Brooklyn/i-7xXsNnc/0/L/20160310_DDRB%20Agenda%20Packet_Page_85-L.jpg)

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I believe Gate has no intention of changing the site plan and will instead spend the time telling DDRB why the site plan cannot be changed.  Gate insists they need a loading zone behind the convenience store and therefore no other site layout is possible.  To have such a bad site plan for an urban area dictated by a loading area is ludicrous to me.

This stuff isn't rocket science.  The site is a square.  They can rotate it four different ways and still end up with a loading zone adjacent to the building.....while putting the outdoor dining area right on Park.  I know because I did a scaled quick sketch for giggles at my desk the other day.  I'll try and scan it tomorrow. 

Quote
Gate wants final approval in mid-April.  I hope DDRB stands firm and does not approve the current site plan.  If gas stations can be designed to fit urban areas in other cities, there simply is no excuse not to do it here.  Perhaps they have to sacrifice some of the pumps.  I mean where is there a gas station with 24 pumps?

They don't have to sacrifice anything.  They have a pretty large site already. It's a square and buildings can be rotated in multiple ways without sacrificing circulation, parking, square footage or number of pumps.

Only difference I saw on site plan today was a walkway behind Chelsea for the bikers.  The bike/ped committee now approves of the Gate station design because they don't give a shit about the ped in their name.  The new building design is much different and in my opinion better than this one.  However, if they keep the same site plan you won't see it anyway.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: JaxAvondale on March 10, 2016, 11:08:32 PM
I had a previously scheduled meeting today but I will be present at the meeting on the 24th.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Steve on March 11, 2016, 11:36:22 AM
DDRB approved the conceptual design for the medical office.  I was not there for the entire conversation about this one. but I think there was talk about either removing some of the parking spaces along Park or relocating them.

DDRB did not approve the conceptual design of the Gate station.  They will hold a workshop with Gate on March 24 at 10 a.m.  It is open to the public.  Committee members did a good job explaining how getting this right will increase foot traffic on Park St. just like it has on Riverside Ave.  They want the building moved to the front.  They like the design of the building (it is not the one shown on this sight).  I agree that the building design is good.  DDRB has a real problem with the site plan.  Thank God!

I believe Gate has no intention of changing the site plan and will instead spend the time telling DDRB why the site plan cannot be changed.  Gate insists they need a loading zone behind the convenience store and therefore no other site layout is possible.  To have such a bad site plan for an urban area dictated by a loading area is ludicrous to me. 

Gate wants final approval in mid-April.  I hope DDRB stands firm and does not approve the current site plan.  If gas stations can be designed to fit urban areas in other cities, there simply is no excuse not to do it here.  Perhaps they have to sacrifice some of the pumps.  I mean where is there a gas station with 24 pumps?

I'm supportive of both DDRB decisions. I really don't have a huge issue with Office building since it's addressed the street fairly well and sits on the lot line on the corner. I'd love them to see them flip the retail to the corner, and I get the point about the Parking on Park Street so hopefully they will adjust for final approval.

The Gate plan is awful - I'm hoping that they stick to their guns and I definitely think everyone should make some noise on that one. I personally have no issue with the 24 pumps per se - the lot is huge for the core. My issue is where they are. The excuse that Gate can't change is total bullshit. If national and regional chains like Target, Publix, Best Buy, etc. can do urban layouts and be successful, then Gate Petroleum can do it.

There are times when I think we should bend to make the development happen, but this isn't one. The lot is a prime intersection and a large piece of property - someone will have an interest. If Gate can't make a design that works for an urban location, so be it - tell them to walk away. I won't lose any sleep because we missed out on a Gate Gas Station.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: thelakelander on March 11, 2016, 11:51:33 AM
^The fact that 7-Eleven and Daily's have both recently built decent gas stations within Jax's urban core (on smaller lots) is all the proof needed that Gate can do better.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: CCMjax on March 11, 2016, 12:44:16 PM
As stated before, Gate is going to push their low budget prototype hard.  Nobody really has to use their brain or change drawings much from the countless other ones they done around here, hence low cost.  They may have already agreed on a contract with a design team.  Obviously changing their prototype is not their first option, but I'm sure they will make modifications if necessary.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Kerry on March 14, 2016, 09:24:58 AM
Kay - thank for showing up.  My problem is I work out of state and am only home a few days a month, however, I will be home on March 24.  I have a meeting scheduled at the same time as the workshop but maybe I can get it moved.  If nothing else, I would like to at least see how the process works.
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: thelakelander on March 14, 2016, 09:32:53 AM
Work on the medical building site is already underway. Here's a few pics from Saturday:

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Urban-Construction-March-2016/i-jh7Gwqz/0/L/DSCF8947-L.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Urban-Construction-March-2016/i-PzJc8bT/0/L/DSCF8948-L.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Urban-Construction-March-2016/i-PkMV8QQ/0/L/DSCF8958-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Timkin on May 31, 2016, 10:44:56 AM
I hope Annie Lytle is not the next target for this developer. 
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: mtraininjax on June 01, 2016, 09:12:34 AM
Timken - Everyone in local media knows that the Annie Lytle is located on Avondale, so no problem there. wink, wink...

Glad to see the old McDonalds on the corner finally go away. Jimmy Johns must be dancing a jig!
Title: Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
Post by: Timkin on June 01, 2016, 02:14:44 PM
no argument there, Train. 


The developer on that project wants the AL property. minus the School.   

No secret that the outlying land owner who was the former owner of the School now wants to tie it all back together.  Which means they either have a way to save it and the money in place ( not likely in my honest opinion ) ..or

They have an ironclad way to finally get it removed, which is what they always intended to do ( again just my opinion,  but I think the latter is closer to accurate)


Time will tell .