The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => The Burbs => Arlington => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on December 03, 2014, 04:00:01 AM

Title: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: Metro Jacksonville on December 03, 2014, 04:00:01 AM
Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3712805279_xnrrRfz-M.jpg)

The push to redevelop the Jacksonville Landing may have cooled down but life is good at Sleiman Enterprises' developing Atlantic North shopping center.


Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-dec-atlantic-north-jacksonvilles-next-major-retail-center
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: I-10east on December 03, 2014, 07:34:10 AM
I hate that decision to build Belk there. They put a longtime Belk at Regency out of business, then added a commonplace replacement down the road, it made zero sense to me... Believe me, I'm not one of these guys that's really big on Macy's, but how about a Macy's? On the name recognition alone, it would've generated tons of buzz, versus one of many neighborhood-ized Belks. I'm surprised that Nordstrom at SJTC wasn't a Belk... 
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: Rob68 on December 03, 2014, 07:41:41 AM
Thats exactly what this city needs ...another fucking shopping center..with the kind of cash these boys have youd think theyd get more creative than another fucking shopping center...
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: fieldafm on December 03, 2014, 07:45:44 AM
Quote
They put a longtime Belk at Regency out of business, then added a commonplace replacement down the road, it made zero sense to me

Generally, when you run a business... you have to make make more than you spend. Closing an underperforming store and opening a new location on a site with better demographics makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: spuwho on December 03, 2014, 07:56:50 AM
Formerly called "The Fountains" it was originally supposed to be surrounded with ponds with water fountains in each.

After they got relief on the mobility fee, they filled in the ponds and turned them into outparcels. Then the name was changed to Atlantic North.

Kernan Boulevard north of this is funded (by the recent tax renewal) to be widened from 2 lanes to 6 from the Atlantic interchange to McCormick/Wonderwood. Kernan is also funded by COJ to be widened from 4 to 6 lanes from JTB to UNF Alumni Hall along with improvements to the Kernan exit from JTB.

The only corner Mr Sleiman doesnt own is held by the Titus Harvest Dome Church. That is currently leased to the Marble Waters Hotel which is owned by the church pastor Rev RJ Washington.

The Sleiman properties around the Walmart are nearly 100% leased. The only vacancies are a single unit facing Kernan. While outparcels in front of Kohls are doing well, the fast food parcels in front of Walmart have been vacant for over 5 years.

The corner anchored by BJ's and Walgreens will finally reach 100% when ATT takes over what had been a cycle of Chinese buffets and makes it a retail phone store.

What is interesting in the Kernan cooridor is that there is not one roadside fast food sign to be found.

Mr Sleimans company also owns more acreage west of Atlantic North and is pushing for another car dealership to locate there. Seeing that there are already 9 new car dealerships in a 2 mile stretch, adding another doesnt seem likely.

Also SE is attempting to woo a movie theater operator to Atlantic North. As posted earlier, I dont think that will fly due to market overlaps.

The question now is, what is next for Atlantic North after Belk opens?
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: thelakelander on December 03, 2014, 08:03:45 AM
I hate that decision to build Belk there. They put a longtime Belk at Regency out of business, then added a commonplace replacement down the road, it made zero sense to me...

Belk's new store is about 1/2 the size of the one they are closing at Regency. My guess is Belk is closing the Regency store for many of the same reasons that downtown department stores closed during the 1980s.  More obsolete space than what's needed for today's market and a higher cost associated with maintaining it.  If Belk wanted out, it would have probably been another shopping center to replace it or closing the store altogether.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: coredumped on December 03, 2014, 10:48:39 AM
Anyone want to walk from Kohl's to academy?
Comon, it would be like real-life frogger!

(http://i.imgur.com/ZoHM7Js.jpg)

We used to park downtown and walk everywhere. Then we used to park at the mall and walk within the mall. Now, we have to drive to go to the nearest store.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: finehoe on December 03, 2014, 11:30:40 AM
Thats exactly what this city needs ...another fucking shopping center..with the kind of cash these boys have youd think theyd get more creative than another fucking shopping center...

The decisions of the "free" market are never to be questioned.

Generally, when you run a business... you have to make make more than you spend. Closing an underperforming store and opening a new location on a site with better demographics makes perfect sense.

Especially when it's the public at large who are footing the bill for the externalities.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: I-10east on December 03, 2014, 11:39:29 AM
Belk's new store is about 1/2 the size of the one they are closing at Regency. My guess is Belk is closing the Regency store for many of the same reasons that downtown department stores closed during the 1980s.  More obsolete space than what's needed for today's market and a higher cost associated with maintaining it.  If Belk wanted out, it would have probably been another shopping center to replace it or closing the store altogether.

You and Field are right. It just seem like Jax has an overwhelming amount of Belk's, six in the metro (including St Aug). It's disappointing when you have a chance to bring something new and exciting to the area (like Earthfare in the same strip) and the more of the same comes. We have 1/4 of the Belk's in the state, and nearly all of the other's are in small towns like Lake City, Leesburg, and Destin.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on December 03, 2014, 12:26:49 PM
Reminiscent of when JC Penney left Gateway for the store on Dunn.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: I-10east on December 03, 2014, 12:29:29 PM
^^^Or Dunn's Marshall's for RCMP.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: JeffreyS on December 03, 2014, 12:51:17 PM
Well this is a big pile of $#¡¶.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: JECJAX on December 03, 2014, 02:00:54 PM
Question - why couldn't this deveopment been done at Regency Square ?  It's only 3 miles away and access is 1000 times better than the Atlantic North development ?? I know the mall is outdated but the property is already more shopper friendly than Atlantic North plus several anchor stores are already there ?  Tear the mall down and redevelop the property
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: mbwright on December 03, 2014, 02:23:21 PM
Shopper friendly is old school.  It's not fun if you can't get wet, and run over while shopping for less selection.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: spuwho on December 03, 2014, 05:11:34 PM
For starts...

Sleiman Enterprises doesnt own Regency.
The properties in and around Regency are owned by others
Sleiman is offering a lower cost psf to his tenants (I assume)

I am not privy to what Mason offered Belk as part of a retention plan. I suspect that Belk was already down the road with Sleiman before Mason closed the deal. I am sure GGP was not willing to make any deals on a property they were unloading.

Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: thelakelander on December 03, 2014, 05:39:14 PM
Question - why couldn't this deveopment been done at Regency Square ?  It's only 3 miles away and access is 1000 times better than the Atlantic North development ?? I know the mall is outdated but the property is already more shopper friendly than Atlantic North plus several anchor stores are already there ?  Tear the mall down and redevelop the property

Blame Regency's former owner. They made a decision to not invest in what they determined was an underperforming asset and eventually got rid of it. While no investment was made in Regency, the market and demographics around it continued to change and other firms have taken advantage of it.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: thelakelander on December 03, 2014, 05:41:31 PM

The question now is, what is next for Atlantic North after Belk opens?

I'd look no further than Regency and the older strip malls surrounding it, further down on Atlantic. Any chain making a decision to reinvest or upgrade in an area store, would probably evaluate shifting to a newer location with more favorable demographics. In the case of Regency, Belk's departure will cause some retailers in the east mall to consider leaving as well.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: spuwho on December 03, 2014, 07:21:32 PM

The question now is, what is next for Atlantic North after Belk opens?

I'd look no further than Regency and the older strip malls surrounding it, further down on Atlantic. Any chain making a decision to reinvest or upgrade in an area store, would probably evaluate shifting to a newer location with more favorable demographics. In the case of Regency, Belk's departure will cause some retailers in the east mall to consider leaving as well.

A major difference is that Belk leases its space at Regency. Sears and JC Penney own their buildings outright.  JC Penney in fact stayed put (they owned the building as well) when Palm Center was torn down. The new developer ended up building a whole new facility around it.

However, I remember driving by Randall Park Mall outside Cleveland and Macy's, owning their building were the only store open...period. The rest of the mall was completely dead. The surrounding stores around the mall were all closed and shuttered. They were like an island in a retail desert.

At least Regency still has new tenant activity on the surrounding properties. Best Bet, Jacksonville Chrysler, Kendalltown, etc. all keep the area vibrant and present new opportunities.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: Ocklawaha on December 03, 2014, 07:51:06 PM
The decisions of the "free" market are never to be questioned.

Generally, when you run a business... you have to make make more than you spend. Closing an underperforming store and opening a new location on a site with better demographics makes perfect sense.

Especially when it's the public at large who are footing the bill for the externalities.

The is the best we're going to get in Jacksonville, with our spineless City Council and brainless Transportation Authority (...and I don't mean 100% of you, but you know who you are). The flip side is Finehoe's utopian socialist model where instead of the public contributing some breaks and infrastructure, they build the whole faceless and nameless big box, hire 2,000 employees (none of which have to really work) and bring customer service to a new epic fail. Socialism does work, works well, works 100% of the time, and actually thrives... until they run out of other peoples money!
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: thelakelander on December 03, 2014, 08:01:18 PM

The question now is, what is next for Atlantic North after Belk opens?

I'd look no further than Regency and the older strip malls surrounding it, further down on Atlantic. Any chain making a decision to reinvest or upgrade in an area store, would probably evaluate shifting to a newer location with more favorable demographics. In the case of Regency, Belk's departure will cause some retailers in the east mall to consider leaving as well.

A major difference is that Belk leases its space at Regency. Sears and JC Penney own their buildings outright.  JC Penney in fact stayed put (they owned the building as well) when Palm Center was torn down. The new developer ended up building a whole new facility around it.

I fear both JCPenney and Sears won't be around as chains long term. Not just for Regency's sake but malls all over the country.

Quote
However, I remember driving by Randall Park Mall outside Cleveland and Macy's, owning their building were the only store open...period. The rest of the mall was completely dead. The surrounding stores around the mall were all closed and shuttered. They were like an island in a retail desert.

Reminds me of Winter Haven Mall in my hometown. In 1996, a new mall opened and the Byron's chain closed, leaving Winter Haven Mall with Burdines as the only anchor.  The mall's specialty shops quickly closed with no additional anchors to generate foot traffic their way. A few years later, a new developer purchased the property and tore down everything except Burdines, which had become a Macy's. They lured Belk from a nearby strip mall, got Macy's to expand and filled the rest of the old mall site with a Lowe's, a power center, and a few restaurant outparcels.

Winter Haven Mall - 1994
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-vKKJtmQ/0/L/Winter%20Haven%20Mall%20-%201994-L.jpg)

Citi Centre - 2014 (Mall torn down in 2000)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-jGxsR6s/0/L/Winter%20Haven%20Citi%20Centre-%202014-L.jpg)

The old Macy's mall entrance.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Winter-Haven-May-2011/i-zwDJPfX/0/L/P1460600-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: brainstormer on December 03, 2014, 08:26:13 PM
Uninspiring. Meh. Jacksonville's zoning and development requirements suck. Period. I mean, the least we could have required was that there was a sidewalk connecting the apartments to the retail. But then again, we don't even require sidewalks in new subdivisions. We live in a fat-ass country because of shit like this. And then we wonder why we have some of the highest pedestrian death rates in the nation.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: spuwho on December 03, 2014, 09:15:41 PM
Uninspiring. Meh. Jacksonville's zoning and development requirements suck. Period. I mean, the least we could have required was that there was a sidewalk connecting the apartments to the retail. But then again, we don't even require sidewalks in new subdivisions. We live in a fat-ass country because of shit like this. And then we wonder why we have some of the highest pedestrian death rates in the nation.

Not just Jacksonville....look at those pictures Lake posted. I don't see many sidewalks on those side streets there either.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: thelakelander on December 03, 2014, 09:38:15 PM
Yes, not just Jacksonville. Many cities across the country have land use policies in place that treat the pedestrian as a second class citizen.  In recent years, several cities have modified their regulations to lay the ground work for a better future development pattern. I hope Jacksonville will one day as well. 

In Winter Haven's case, this shopping center is roughly six blocks south of downtown.  You can't see it on the aerials above (you'd have to zoom in) but the city recently reduced a stretch of SW 3rd Street from 4 to 2 lanes. With the extra right-of-way, they added a share use path that connects the shopping center to the heart of downtown. That path is intended to eventually connect with a network of citywide shared use paths that will then connect into a network of paths spanning Central Florida from coast to coast.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: vicupstate on December 04, 2014, 08:40:08 AM
The decisions of the "free" market are never to be questioned.

Generally, when you run a business... you have to make make more than you spend. Closing an underperforming store and opening a new location on a site with better demographics makes perfect sense.

Especially when it's the public at large who are footing the bill for the externalities.

The is the best we're going to get in Jacksonville, with our spineless City Council and brainless Transportation Authority (...and I don't mean 100% of you, but you know who you are). The flip side is Finehoe's utopian socialist model where instead of the public contributing some breaks and infrastructure, they build the whole faceless and nameless big box, hire 2,000 employees (none of which have to really work) and bring customer service to a new epic fail. Socialism does work, works well, works 100% of the time, and actually thrives... until they run out of other peoples money!

I don't know any socialist countries that own department stores or for that matter any product distribution other than the social safety net.  Stop listening to Rush.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: fsujax on December 05, 2014, 06:21:40 PM
The only thing that might would save Regency would be to lure a Macy's there. Not sure it would ever happen, but a redeveloped Regency and a Macy's could do the trick.
Title: Re: Atlantic North: Jacksonville's Next Major Retail Center
Post by: I-10east on December 05, 2014, 10:06:33 PM
I fear both JCPenney and Sears won't be around as chains long term. Not just for Regency's sake but malls all over the country.

Almost on cue with Sears.

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/morning-edition/2014/12/up-to-speed-sears-announces-235-stores-to-close-as.html