The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on April 02, 2014, 03:00:01 AM

Title: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: Metro Jacksonville on April 02, 2014, 03:00:01 AM
Shoppes on Riverside Renderings

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3155705332_J75Gh2w-M.jpg)

A brief look at the proposed design of Shoppes on Riverside, downtown's first major retail project in decades.

Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-apr-shoppes-on-riverside-renderings
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on April 02, 2014, 03:18:16 AM
Would have been nice if they had built a parking garage with retail, instead of the open air parking. We really need to get away from that in the DT and surrounding areas. This still is a nice improvement for the area and I am please to see this development.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: Kay on April 02, 2014, 07:31:30 AM
Also looks like storefront windows/doors are cheap materials.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: Bridges on April 02, 2014, 08:08:20 AM
Surprised that they don't have a direct car pull in from Riverside Ave.  I like that.  Seems like a small plus.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: jaxlore on April 02, 2014, 08:38:41 AM
"regency centers" bringing the town center to a urban core near you.

They will probably never get it or are just to greedy to want to get it.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: johnnyliar on April 02, 2014, 09:42:56 AM
The most exciting thing about all of this is the expansion of the skyway!
How likely is that to actually happen? Should I not hold my breath?
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: Captain Zissou on April 02, 2014, 09:43:52 AM
I would have liked to see some outdoor seating along riverside ave. this development is by no means urban, but it will add ammenities to the urban core that will make it a more viable option for residents and future development.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: jcjohnpaint on April 02, 2014, 09:48:55 AM
It doesn't mean it can't change in the future. 
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: Bridges on April 02, 2014, 10:15:20 AM
"regency centers" bringing the town center to a urban core near you.

They will probably never get it or are just to greedy to want to get it.

They don't have to "get it".  The DDRB can make them "get it"...if they wanted to.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: edjax on April 02, 2014, 10:27:08 AM
I would have liked to see some outdoor seating along riverside ave. this development is by no means urban, but it will add ammenities to the urban core that will make it a more viable option for residents and future development.

It would appear to include outdoor seating in front of the three buildings along Riverside.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: duvaldude08 on April 02, 2014, 10:34:22 AM
Also looks like storefront windows/doors are cheap materials.

How so?
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 02, 2014, 12:40:14 PM
Materials will probably be the same as any other strip center going up these days. A similar scaled shopping center, also anchored by Fresh Market, opened a few miles north of downtown Orlando last Fall. I suspect, at the end of the day, the architectural, material and landscaping quality of Shoppes on Riverside will be pretty similar.

Quote
The Market at Mills Park is the retail portion of Mills Park, a 14.5-acre site of a city-approved mixed-use development that will include retail, multifamily and office.  Anchored by a 20,900 square foot Fresh Market, The Market at Mills Park will feature a dynamic mix of Class “A” retailers amongst spacious outdoor seating areas, lush landscaping and a park element that will differentiate the project from all other developments in Central Florida. The park will include small freestanding retail buildings offering treats such as ice cream and adult and kid-friendly beverages as well as a bike repair shop surrounded by subtle landscape and unique water features for those traveling on the Orlando Urban Train.
http://www.debartolodevelopment.com/projects/mixed-use/mills-park/

http://www.debartolodevelopment.com/debartolodevelopment/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/FL-Orlando-Mills.ppt.pdf

(http://bungalower.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Mills-Park-Layout.png)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Orlando-2013/i-9cR4PFf/0/M/P1670767-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Orlando-2013/i-6ZLTR9X/0/M/P1670762-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Orlando-2013/i-mk5FJjM/0/M/P1670763-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Orlando-2013/i-j48Fv2f/0/M/P1670764-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Orlando-2013/i-bpVcc4n/0/M/P1670768-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: duvaldude08 on April 02, 2014, 12:51:23 PM
I wonder if someone got arrested for painting art work on that electrical box.. Hummmmmm LOL

Materials will probably be the same as any other strip center going up these days. A similar scaled shopping center, also anchored by Fresh Market, opened a few miles north of downtown Orlando last Fall. I suspect, at the end of the day, the architectural, material and landscaping quality of Shoppes on Riverside will be pretty similar.

Quote
The Market at Mills Park is the retail portion of Mills Park, a 14.5-acre site of a city-approved mixed-use development that will include retail, multifamily and office.  Anchored by a 20,900 square foot Fresh Market, The Market at Mills Park will feature a dynamic mix of Class “A” retailers amongst spacious outdoor seating areas, lush landscaping and a park element that will differentiate the project from all other developments in Central Florida. The park will include small freestanding retail buildings offering treats such as ice cream and adult and kid-friendly beverages as well as a bike repair shop surrounded by subtle landscape and unique water features for those traveling on the Orlando Urban Train.
http://www.debartolodevelopment.com/projects/mixed-use/mills-park/

http://www.debartolodevelopment.com/debartolodevelopment/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/FL-Orlando-Mills.ppt.pdf

(http://bungalower.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Mills-Park-Layout.png)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Orlando-2013/i-9cR4PFf/0/M/P1670767-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Orlando-2013/i-6ZLTR9X/0/M/P1670762-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Orlando-2013/i-mk5FJjM/0/M/P1670763-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Orlando-2013/i-j48Fv2f/0/M/P1670764-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Orlando-2013/i-bpVcc4n/0/M/P1670768-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: JaxNative68 on April 02, 2014, 02:09:25 PM
looks like a 'vandal' got a hold of the electrical box in one of Lake's photos.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: jaxresident1 on April 02, 2014, 02:10:24 PM
Also looks like storefront windows/doors are cheap materials.

How so?

It's a rendering, how could you possibly know the quality of materials? Furthermore, even if they were cheap materials how does that affect you?
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: edjax on April 02, 2014, 02:38:02 PM
^^ welcome. Oh people just like to whine. 
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: I-10east on April 02, 2014, 03:28:25 PM
^^^Yup, I've been saying that for years. I won't be surprised if some person that's living in their ivory tower decides to boycott a new restaurant because it's landscaping has one 'undesirable' type of tree that they don't like. Nothing in the most extreme manner of prissiness will ever surprise me.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: mtraininjax on April 02, 2014, 07:27:54 PM
Quote
Would have been nice if they had built a parking garage with retail, instead of the open air parking. We really need to get away from that in the DT and surrounding areas. This still is a nice improvement for the area and I am please to see this development.

Why stop there? We should have a light rail line that runs in a circle around the property. It would also making a FLUSH sound as it passed you to symbolize the money rushing down the drain for the fantasy. If we're gonna dream, let's dream like we're nuts!
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: mtraininjax on April 02, 2014, 07:35:07 PM
Quote
thanks for providing the first example!

To quote someone a legend in their OWN mind.......YAWNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: mtraininjax on April 02, 2014, 07:40:12 PM
Quote
this is why i love you, mtrain.

Feeling is mutual. Everyone needs a Ying to their Yang!
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: MEGATRON on April 02, 2014, 07:51:19 PM
Also looks like storefront windows/doors are cheap materials.

How so?

It's a rendering, how could you possibly know the quality of materials? Furthermore, even if they were cheap materials how does that affect you?
she doesn't. She just wanted to chime in on the bitching and moaning that occurs any time a new development is discussed on this website. It's pathetic.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: MEGATRON on April 02, 2014, 08:10:26 PM
oversimplifications and straw man accusations are worse, megatron.

And whilst Kay and I disagree (notably) on a few things, I think this is a very unfair characterization.
please Stephen. This board has turned into the same half dozen or so folks denigrating any new development that comes along.  Other posters have tired if it and stopped posting.

In regard to Kay, how on earth would she determine the materials were shoddy or cheap from those drawings?
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: MEGATRON on April 02, 2014, 08:23:35 PM
oversimplifications and straw man accusations are worse, megatron.

And whilst Kay and I disagree (notably) on a few things, I think this is a very unfair characterization.
please Stephen. This board has turned into the same half dozen or so folks denigrating any new development that comes along.  Other posters have tired if it and stopped posting.

In regard to Kay, how on earth would she determine the materials were shoddy or cheap from those drawings?

meh.  Just because people disagree with your sometimes odd points of view doesnt make this a true statement, megatron.  And both our number of posters and readers have actually increased, not decreased.  (although for the past couple of weeks, both Lake and I have been a little preoccupied to engage with our usual level of response)

And while there is a group of people who are unecessarily negative at times, there are far more of us who are pretty positive.  Really, the biggest argument is one of our site trolls, I 10, making every post that he cant quite sound out into a 'debate' about how people are 'down' on Jacksonville----which is literally ludicrous.

Perhaps you mistake some of the conversations for criticism of development rather than smart process or good development.  But it takes understanding the underlying conservative reasons for proper planning to grasp why people would think the issues are important, and your posting history seems to indicate that you don't have much of an open mind for discussing those deeply conservative ideas.
a large group that are unnecessarily negative.

As for me, I know far more about proper planning than 95% of the posters here.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: MEGATRON on April 02, 2014, 08:26:48 PM
Yes indeed
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: I-10east on April 02, 2014, 08:31:51 PM
^^^You're being so hypocritical. You're SO against 'strawman arguments' but yet you made me into one, go figure... To you, the unfair negative criticisms of the city is perfectly okay (you protect that element) but anytime I try to be fair and reasoned, you call me an 'on site troll'. 

How in the hell I'm I a troll, when more than not the 'trolls' are the overly negative ones? If Jax deserved to be criticized, I won't say nothing; Even if the negative subject is harped on monotonously (like it usually is). It's all about being fair and reasoned, something you definitely could learn from.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: MEGATRON on April 02, 2014, 08:37:57 PM
sorry for the interruption, megatron.  What kind of interest or background do you have in planning?  Genuinely curious here.
I'm excellent at Sim City and no need to apologize for I-10.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: Kay on April 02, 2014, 09:59:48 PM
 ;)
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: spuwho on April 02, 2014, 10:06:47 PM
I am really glad Corner Bakery Cafe is coming. I really miss them.

I was a regular at the ones up north. The bigger ones have great breakfasts. This one looks scaled down a bit so probably nothing big there. They had great panini's back then but its been awhile. Will definitely pay a visit post open.

Perhaps in 15 or 20 years I will be able to take the Skyway there.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: tufsu1 on April 03, 2014, 07:56:57 AM
^ hopefully something more like 2-3 years
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: jaxresident1 on April 03, 2014, 08:59:06 AM
I am really glad Corner Bakery Cafe is coming. I really miss them.

I was a regular at the ones up north. The bigger ones have great breakfasts. This one looks scaled down a bit so probably nothing big there. They had great panini's back then but its been awhile. Will definitely pay a visit post open.

Perhaps in 15 or 20 years I will be able to take the Skyway there.

I have to assume everyone is aware that there are other forms of public transportation besides the Skyway?  The R5, WS6, WS12, and Riverside Trolley all go by there.  At least this post is a mix of positive and negative.  Spuwho is excited about getting a Corner Bakery even though it "looks scaled down" and Spuwho assumes they can't offer the bigger breakfast Spuwho is accustomed to.  I hope they pleasantly surprise you, Spuwho.   
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: edjax on April 03, 2014, 11:13:04 AM
I am really glad Corner Bakery Cafe is coming. I really miss them.

I was a regular at the ones up north. The bigger ones have great breakfasts. This one looks scaled down a bit so probably nothing big there. They had great panini's back then but its been awhile. Will definitely pay a visit post open.

Perhaps in 15 or 20 years I will be able to take the Skyway there.

Per their own website  Corner Bakery Cafes range from 3,000-4,500 square feet.  This particular one will be 4,000 square feet so will be towards the upper end in size, so does not really appear to be a scaled down version at all.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: spuwho on April 03, 2014, 12:05:46 PM
My comment on Corner Bakery is wholly positive. Just a brief whine on what they may offer, but I will go and find out. The last opening of a Corner Bakery I went to had a healthy line.

My comment on the Skyway was purely sarcasm.  I was mocking the fact that it may be awhile before a JTA funding request would be approved.

From where I live it is not a very good use of my time to use public transportation. I wish I could do a park and ride to the city center then Skyway to the new shops.  But based on bus scheduling more than half my day would be tied up waiting.

For now I will drive but I check updates to the JTA service regularly. But thank you for the bus route suggestions.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 03, 2014, 12:55:35 PM
Better skyway connectivity will result in additional economic development opportunities for DT that local bus services will never deliver.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: Bridges on April 03, 2014, 06:35:35 PM
If the riverside trolley sticks, wouldn't need a whole new trolley to downtown, just have it meet the Brooklyn skyway stop.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: tufsu1 on April 03, 2014, 10:39:10 PM
My comment on the Skyway was purely sarcasm.  I was mocking the fact that it may be awhile before a JTA funding request would be approved.

JTA is submitting for the TIGER grant again.  And they have primed it by going up to DC and talking to FTA staff about the importance of connectivity and what the project would mean for the area.  The application should be submitted in about 1  month and winners will be announced in late summer or early fall.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: ProjectMaximus on April 04, 2014, 12:49:42 AM
My comment on the Skyway was purely sarcasm.  I was mocking the fact that it may be awhile before a JTA funding request would be approved.

JTA is submitting for the TIGER grant again.  And they have primed it by going up to DC and talking to FTA staff about the importance of connectivity and what the project would mean for the area.  The application should be submitted in about 1  month and winners will be announced in late summer or early fall.

Do you know if there will be any major changes to the app? Any chance to extend it all the way to Forest since they had to add fluff in there last time to reach $20 million (the minimum for a 100% match, iirc)?
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on April 04, 2014, 06:31:04 AM
I don't believe changes will involve extending it further than the Brooklyn Skyway yard.  Looking at 220 Riverside's parking lot that sits between Riverside Avenue and the building, I'm not sure it can fit without some major modifications to their lot's layout.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: CCMjax on April 04, 2014, 10:41:07 PM
I think its a positive.  Not the best design especially with all the surface parking but perhaps a garage was not in the budget.  Anything elevated requiring foundations is much more expensive.  Wish it was included though because nothing takes away from aesthetics and walkability as much as surface lots do.  I think it is better in urban environments to have concealed parking garages.  It is a start though.  The whole brooklyn area is about to be transformed which is good and hopefully serves as a catalyst for the jax core.  Although i hope the core doesnt get too cosmopolitan.  Im a huge advocate of public transit but i really dont like the idea of expanding the skyway.  It is ugly and expensive and diesnt serve its purpose very efficiently.  If there is goi g to be huge spending on transit id rather see expanded bus service or a streetcar system sort of like tampa's.  That system is actually attractive and doesnt block out the sky in the neighborhood.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: jacksoninjax on May 31, 2014, 02:39:59 AM
thelakelander
April 02, 2014, 12:40:14 PM
Materials will probably be the same as any other strip center going up these days. A similar scaled shopping center, also anchored by Fresh Market, opened a few miles north of downtown Orlando last Fall. I suspect, at the end of the day, the architectural, material and landscaping quality of Shoppes on Riverside will be pretty similar.

Lakelander,  How can you say that these developments have any aesthetic similarities?  Look closely at the Orlando renderings.  It takes complete advantage of the entire property and is truly an first-tier urban mix-used project.  Notice how all of the buildings face their respective street fronts and place the majority of the parking in multi-level garages and/or spaces BEHIND the buildings. 

The Jacksonville project has the same cookie cutter suburban design (to wit, the sprawling parking lot abutting Riverside Avenue).  Notice that the Orlando project doesn't have this feature.

Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of Jacksonville and I've called it home for many years.  However, I get so frustrated by the lack of uninspired development. There are some superb developments, which I can talk about later. But you have to admit, we have some major developmental buzz kills also. 

I work for a major U.S. airline and I have personally visited every major city in the country (numerous times), as well as most Alpha World cities-a perspective I fear that the majority of the posters haven't yet achieved. 

Jacksonville has SO many attributes it's crazy!!   Our beautiful beaches, the gorgeous St. Johns River, historic neighborhoods and, of course, our massive public parks.  By the way, why hasn't the the city not advertised the hell out of the fact that Jacksonville has more trees than any other city in the U.S?  I challenge any person to prove me wrong on this.

Jacksonville can become a first-tier city; no doubt in my mind.  However, one of the first steps is for architects and developers to step out of the box and stop creating the same boring, uninspired crap.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on May 31, 2014, 07:03:24 AM
I've seen the Orlando development in person. It's open. The Fresh Market has a surface parking lot in front of it, just like ours will. In both cases, the surrounding retail buildings line the edge of the property. The major difference is the surrounding context. Riverside Avenue is significantly wider and more autocentric in design than 17/92.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: fieldafm on May 31, 2014, 08:04:37 AM
Have to agree with Lake. There isnt a drastic difference between the Orlando and Jax Fresh Market centers,  and I'd be really hard-pressed to call the Orlando development a 'first tier urban mixed-use' facility.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: urbaknight on May 31, 2014, 11:09:45 AM
Not to highjack the thread but, now since the YMCA project is now dead. (Jaxksonville style) I think the Y should sell to the land to a yankee born high-rise apartment developer. There's your urban infill!
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: edjax on May 31, 2014, 11:24:10 AM
Y is not dead, just working on the financing and seems more of just a delay.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: thelakelander on June 23, 2014, 03:59:43 PM
I at breakfast at a First Watch in the Orlando Fresh Market development the other week. Here are some phone pics of that retail center that should give everyone a good idea of what the Shoppes of Riverside will feel like, once complete:

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Shoppes-on-Riverside/i-WRxbhH7/0/L/IMG_20140608_131210-L.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Shoppes-on-Riverside/i-WPqTShp/0/L/IMG_20140608_131221-L.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Shoppes-on-Riverside/i-KGDdgWc/0/L/IMG_20140608_131357-L.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Shoppes-on-Riverside/i-4WWJLbK/0/L/IMG_20140608_131402-L.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Shoppes-on-Riverside/i-vwb9Hrf/0/L/IMG_20140608_131410-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: jaxlore on June 23, 2014, 04:13:45 PM
thanks Lake for the pics. still kinda meh.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: Badfinger on June 23, 2014, 05:41:37 PM
Y is not dead, just working on the financing and seems more of just a delay.

Oh no, not dead, tis but a flesh wound.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: able on July 25, 2014, 02:20:50 PM
Here's a little sneak peek of the Fresh Market (on the left).(http://i.imgur.com/QeZLBvn.jpg)
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: edjax on August 25, 2014, 04:59:52 PM
So per story on JBJ, Burrito Gallery opening here too. It will have a rooftop bar and sitting. Keeping downtown location.
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: jcjohnpaint on August 25, 2014, 05:12:02 PM
Kind of surprised how close to the street the FM is.  I thought it would be way back. 
Title: Re: Shoppes on Riverside Renderings
Post by: edjax on August 25, 2014, 05:15:32 PM
The BG will front Riverside.