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Community => The Photoboard => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on January 06, 2014, 03:00:01 AM

Title: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: Metro Jacksonville on January 06, 2014, 03:00:01 AM
Downtown Revitalization: Miami

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2999977326_s3WXH85-M.jpg)

Like many cities, Miami aspires to achieve greatness with its downtown. Judging from the amount of cranes dominating the skyline, Miami is well on its way. Today, Metro Jacksonville's Ennis Davis takes a look at the street scene of one of the country's most rapidly growing downtowns.


Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-jan-downtown-revitalization-miami
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: Noone on January 06, 2014, 06:02:34 AM
Vibrant Waterfront. Unfortunately we can't say that about Jacksonville yet. Interesting about Bayside Marketplace and General Growth Properties. Thanks again for the tour. I've been to Miami once and it was years ago.
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: thelakelander on January 06, 2014, 09:31:27 AM
The uses along Miami's waterfront really aren't that different from downtown Jacksonville's.  I think it helps them to have their port and a major cruise terminal in their downtown as opposed to them being miles away. When you're able to get your density levels up to where Miami's is, you then have the population to keep places like Bayside (or the Landing) open for business.

Btw, you want to know how the Landing will probably look with the parking lot entrance off Laura Street? Bayside is a pretty decent example. Here's a shot looking at Bayside's main entrance from downtown Miami.  Like the proposed Laura Street concept for the Landing, Bayside is split with a vista to the waterfront.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Miami-2013/i-tsPdps7/0/M/DSCF0289-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Miami-2013/i-C2nXSfT/0/M/DSCF0295-M.jpg)

The architecture of Bayside and the Landing is essentially the same.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Miami-2013/i-7T9kpJZ/0/M/DSCF0296-M.jpg)

Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: tpot on January 06, 2014, 10:05:28 AM
http://miami.curbed.com/archives/2014/01/03/magazines-miami-2020-depictions-are-of-a-concrete-jungle.php#more
Here is a link to what the Miami skyline will look like in 2020 with all the projects coming to the city.
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: thelakelander on January 06, 2014, 10:25:02 AM
^That's insane. On foot, it is pretty impressive to see the change over the last decade.
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: CityLife on January 06, 2014, 10:57:13 AM
Downtown Miami and Brickell benefit greatly from the inability to add more density to Miami Beach and Key Biscayne imo. There is massive demand from South America and Europe to live or vacation there, but nowhere to build, so naturally downtown and Brickell have built up. You also have spectacular views of the bay and ocean from the highrises, a beautiful short drive to South Beach or Key Biscayne, close proximity to Florida's best historic neighborhood (Coconut Grove), and the arts and culture of downtown Miami.

I'm sure its been said on here before, but the Downtown, Brickell, Coconut Grove trifecta, is geographically pretty similar to DT Jax, Brooklyn/Riverside Ave, and Riverside/Avondale. Obviously we'll never have the kind of external demand that Miami does due to proximity to South Beach, the beauty of Biscayne Bay, and being a hub of Latin America...but a Jacksonville scaled version could set us apart from landlocked peer cities like Orlando, Charlotte, and Nashville.

Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: tpot on January 06, 2014, 10:59:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ASQQLCrKkk
video of the upcoming World Center
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: tpot on January 06, 2014, 11:06:41 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSBse1BaKjA

Another cool video for 1000 Museum going in across the street from American Airlines Arena
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: billy on January 06, 2014, 11:10:28 AM
The huge colocation facility, NAP of the Americas is in Miami-
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: I-10east on January 06, 2014, 11:20:54 AM
The architecture of Bayside and the Landing is essentially the same.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Miami-2013/i-7T9kpJZ/0/M/DSCF0296-M.jpg)

Which is exactly why I don't like the idea of tearing 2/3 of the Landing down for a breezeway. The 'outdated 80's' (as some say) doesn't seem to bother Miami.
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: simms3 on January 06, 2014, 11:33:26 AM
Miami's skyline is very impressive, but it's not DT/Brickell residents or their increased density that keeps Bayside open.  Bayside is strictly tourists and cruise goers, event-goers, and people from other parts of Miami area.  The success story with Bayside is actually how the owners and the city have kept it relevant and integrated it with with an overall larger package that makes for a nice visit with things to do.

Miami's Brickell and DT density is impressive, but I think a lot of people and urbanists in particular still sneer at the design that still frequently occurs where many of the towers are essentially vertical gated communities and don't properly integrate into the street.  Like Chicago and Atlanta, there is a sea of parking pedestals as well with retail occasionally and only semi-decently added for people...though Chicago doesn't necessarily have a "problem" with this as it's about as good for pedestrians as one can get.

Finally, the other big thing with Miami is that many of these residents are part-time.  Lots of the new condos are savings banks for Latins and they aren't necessarily all rented out to young professionals either.  Lots of the proposed shopping (Miami World Center and Brickell City Centre) is enclosed and geared towards upscale visitors rather than locals and young professionals living DT.  For people who visit and are accustomed to such large downtowns, it is notable the *lack* of pedestrian activity in Brickell/DT.  Midtown Atlanta is far less dense, but seems far more lively in terms of offerings for those who want the downtown environment, and that is because of multiple factors (employment, history, integration of pedestrians into the built environment, which itself is mixed-density and offers more for people who actually want to live, work, and play in the area).

Miami's changing so quickly, but in my young circles, it's still not on the list of cities that college grads from the NE go to (neither is Atlanta/Charlotte for the most part, but they are much more of a destination).  It's telling the lack
of office space in the nation's 3rd largest "skyline" (14.5 million SF leasable space between DT and Brickell, and less than 20 million SF overall with all of the government buildings...less than 2x the size of little ol' DT Jax in this regard).

I don't personally think downtown Miami will be much for the average young professional or visitor such as myself until it gets more office space built and more of a reason for being (as opposed to a sea of half empty condos owned by Brazilians and Argentinians with domestic currency issues and who enjoy brand name shopping elsewhere in Miami...which is the whole reason Brickell City Centre and Miami World are being built - not for permanent DT residents, but to keep these Latins convenient to their condos!).  And while I acknowledge that Miami's downtown now has more buildings >400 ft than any other downtown in the US beside NYC and Chicago, it to me is still not the "3rd skyline" of America.  It lacks the cohesion, architecture (perhaps even height), and history that other imo better skylines have with similar sizes as Miami's.

Great pictures though!  Here's some more that I took one trip...

(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/Miami/Miami6-27-12017_zpsb79d268a.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/Miami/Miami6-27-12017_zpsb79d268a.jpg.html)

(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/Miami/Miami6-27-12020_zps85e12207.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/Miami/Miami6-27-12020_zps85e12207.jpg.html)

(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/Miami/Miami6-27-12021_zps982bd074.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/Miami/Miami6-27-12021_zps982bd074.jpg.html)

(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/Miami/Miami6-27-12024_zps607130a7.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/Miami/Miami6-27-12024_zps607130a7.jpg.html)

(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/Miami/Miami6-27-12026_zps20546f72.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/Miami/Miami6-27-12026_zps20546f72.jpg.html)

(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/Miami/Miami6-27-12029_zps5b138895.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/Miami/Miami6-27-12029_zps5b138895.jpg.html)

(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/Miami/Miami6-27-12030_zps1a276e82.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/Miami/Miami6-27-12030_zps1a276e82.jpg.html)

(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/Miami/Miami6-27-12032_zpsb613d755.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/Miami/Miami6-27-12032_zpsb613d755.jpg.html)

(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/Miami/Miami6-27-12034_zps70d28407.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/Miami/Miami6-27-12034_zps70d28407.jpg.html)

(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/Miami/Miami6-27-12037_zps516e4294.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/Miami/Miami6-27-12037_zps516e4294.jpg.html)

(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/Miami/Miami6-27-12039_zps7130c6e4.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/Miami/Miami6-27-12039_zps7130c6e4.jpg.html)

A suite inside the JW Marriott Marquis (I was impressed enough to take pics!  heh):

(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/Miami/Miami6-27-12010_zpsa45e0ba6.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/Miami/Miami6-27-12010_zpsa45e0ba6.jpg.html)

(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/Miami/Miami6-27-12010_zpsa45e0ba6.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/Miami/Miami6-27-12010_zpsa45e0ba6.jpg.html)

(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/Miami/Miami6-27-12012_zps8b56fc1a.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/Miami/Miami6-27-12012_zps8b56fc1a.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: tpot on January 06, 2014, 11:55:19 AM
Simms, the majority of the condos in Brickell are rented out to people that live and work here.  Most are completely full....As far as the retail space being built......two major tenants for World Center are already announced, Macy's and Nordstrom.  It's my understanding that the shops in World Center will be more mall like, while the shops at Brickell Citi Center will be super high end.....
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: thelakelander on January 06, 2014, 11:57:59 AM
Great night pics, Simms.

Miami's Brickell and DT density is impressive, but I think a lot of people and urbanists in particular still sneer at the design that still frequently occurs where many of the towers are essentially vertical gated communities and don't properly integrate into the street.  Like Chicago and Atlanta, there is a sea of parking pedestals as well with retail occasionally and only semi-decently added for people...though Chicago doesn't necessarily have a "problem" with this as it's about as good for pedestrians as one can get.

I believe this situation has been addressed with the recent revamp of Miami's zoning to a form-based code.  Everything going up now should properly address the street.  Brickell should also be improved by the city's decision to take over Brickell Avenue. Prior to that, FDOT did everything they could to not allow bike and pedestrian improvements at the expense of auto capacity and movement.
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: tpot on January 06, 2014, 12:00:55 PM
yes Brickell Ave is already starting to improve, they are also looking to change part of 8th Street in Mary Brickell village to a Lincoln Rd like space that would be closed to vehicles.
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: tpot on January 06, 2014, 12:04:02 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/12/08/3801886/miami-wants-pedestrian-friendly.html

great article on how the city wants to make downtown more pedestrian friendly
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: tpot on January 06, 2014, 12:26:49 PM
oh and the reason that the downtown homeless population in Miami is down by 90% is because they moved the services that support the homeless from the core of the city...............amazing how that works......
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: thelakelander on January 06, 2014, 12:30:37 PM
What area of town did they move the homeless facilities to?
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: tpot on January 06, 2014, 01:21:46 PM
They didn't relocate to just one area as far as I know, the goal was to get them out of the core of the city.....the City of Miami realized that they couldn't bring people into downtown to live and work if it was overrun by the homeless......seems to be working......
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: CityLife on January 06, 2014, 01:31:46 PM
Miami's city limits are fairly small. Did they relocate to city limits or elsewhere in Dade County?

Lake, did you know Tallahassee is moving The Shelter out of the DT area? They are moving it out on Pensacola Street closer to TCC. Tallahassee's homeless problem is a lot less severe than Jax...but proximity to the Greyhound station did make it a popular stopover. Will be interesting to see how that works.
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: thelakelander on January 06, 2014, 01:38:27 PM
No, I wasn't aware that Tally was relocating The Shelter.
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: Know Growth on January 06, 2014, 04:27:55 PM
It certainly was wonderful to have been born in Miami Beach, grown up in the Miami area,North Miami.

Boating on Biscayne bay, the beaches, fishing piers. The 'Skipper Chuck' show,Jackie Gleason, Convention Center, The Grove,motels,Lincoln Road (with vehicles), Miami Beach! In the early seventies, just barely driving age we would drive, "Cruise" Miami Beach, the very elderly lined up on the porches of the motels that would become the "Deco" district.
Truly "Diverse" population sprinkled with Northeastern US folk, foreign nationals and later, Cuban immigrants.A certain élan,tropical urbane.
And conservation ethic. Even on Key Biscayne we saw public land and space commitment with Greynolds Park-a sizeable chunk of the "Key",and outstanding beach access. The promotion of westward expansion well in to and beyond the Everglades to the west,"Jetport"  was the natural evolution and hoped for,assumed transformation by some, complete with a full array Chamber Of Commerce and various Group endorsement- cause for backlash and creation of the Big Cypress Preserve and concerted efforts to establish and defend urban boundary, protection of Everglades 'Buffer', "Eastward Ho!" movement. The stance may have accommodated and spurned interest and development in the original "Core",although I believe the best land was developed first,and Downtown Miami would always remain a focal point,yet the "Sprawl" measures have probably been beneficial, creating a more livable and manageable region.

When I moved to Jacksonville in the late seventies my parents picked me up at the airport and,on the way to Clay county, my folks drove me to Downtown. My dad was so enchanted with, and proud of Downtown Jacksonville.......
POTENTIAL!!
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: Coolyfett on January 06, 2014, 09:41:43 PM
Very impressive Miami....king of the carribbean region. Alot of cities like to claim they are a melting pop, but Miami is a true melting pop. Probably the closest thing to  New York culturally, but with the tropical climate. Miami is definitely king of Florida, no arguements there.
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: Mike D on January 06, 2014, 10:41:09 PM
Jacksonville will never compete with Miami, nor should it try to.  Different cities, different potentials, different personalities.  But Jax can definitely take a page from Miami's book.  Yes, policies really can have a positive impact on street-level life, energy, design and density.  These are the things that draw people.  Ferris wheels and big buildings are nice; they may add to a city, but they don't make one. As always, Jacksonville has the potential for greatness (which is not the same as biggest, tallest, etc)...all the ingredients are there.
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: jaxlore on January 07, 2014, 11:39:34 AM
I've stayed in DT miami half a dozen times over the last 10 years and I remember about 2 years ago saying its finally coming into its own again. Honestly I've never had a problem with homeless in Miami but maybe that's because I am used to them here ;)
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: finehoe on January 07, 2014, 04:41:21 PM
Miami 4th worst run city in America

4. Miami, Florida
> Population: 413,864 (42nd largest)
> Credit rating: A2, negative
> Violent crime per 100,000: 1,172 (15th highest)
> 2012 Unemployment rate: 10.3% (24th highest)

Miami’s credit is rated A2 with a negative outlook, one of the worst among large cities. Roughly one in 10 jobs in Miami is construction related, more than the vast majority of the largest U.S. cities. Miami’s poverty rate of 31% last year was roughly double the national rate. Job growth in Florida’s construction industry has improved somewhat recently, but the sector has a long way to go after it was slammed by the housing crisis. Between 2008 and 2012, Miami home values fell by nearly 40%, one of the worst drops among major U.S. cities. Last year, one in every 19 homes in the area were in foreclosure, worse than all but one other large city. On the other hand, Miami has recently been experiencing a boom in condo construction.

http://247wallst.com/special-report/2014/01/02/the-best-and-worst-run-cities-in-america-2/
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: BoldBoyOfTheSouth on January 10, 2014, 10:35:26 AM
I find South Beach to be an over priced tourist trap, however, Brickell feels like a real neighborhood.

Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: BoldBoyOfTheSouth on January 10, 2014, 10:36:34 AM
Every tourist should visit South Beach, it's worth experiencing once.

The next night & the rest of your nights in Miami should be in Miami's Brickell neighborhood in the heart of downtown.
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: BoldBoyOfTheSouth on January 10, 2014, 10:38:57 AM
Coconut Grove has a surprisingly vibrant urban area with a great artistic flair within the broader surburan style neightborhood.   
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on January 10, 2014, 04:53:55 PM
South Beach is over priced and the hotels are IMO well over priced. Beautiful skyline though.
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: thelakelander on January 10, 2014, 06:14:39 PM
South Beach and the hotels down there are overpriced, IMO. Nevertheless, we'll have a South Beach tour featured next week.
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on January 10, 2014, 06:49:38 PM
Please get night shots ( I know I am greedy), :)
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on January 10, 2014, 10:35:10 PM
South Beach and the hotels down there are overpriced, IMO. Nevertheless, we'll have a South Beach tour featured next week.

What's your thoughts on overpriced? 

I went down for the Orange Bowl and pretty much every 'average' hotels (Motel 6, Comfort Inn, Etc....) were $275/night and up.  The other mid-level-ish (Clarion, Embassy Suites) were in the $400/ night range. 

Some of us aren't smart enough to make reservations, lol, and we're the ones who end up staying at one of the beach 'resort' hotels in Deerfield Beach on a last minute Travelocity Surprise deal that ended up being a great part of a really fun trip.  ;D
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: thelakelander on January 11, 2014, 09:05:28 AM
^I benefit from having a close family member who works for Marriott.  Typically, I can stay at nearly any Marriott chain for less than $50/night. It's made travel real affordable for me, which is probably why I travel so much. Granted my view is tainted (I can usually find something for $39 or $45/night in most cities), once I'm over $100/night WITH the discount, it's the world of overpricing to me. Two weeks ago, the cheapest thing I could find that wasn't 20 miles out was a Courtyard in DT for $129/night. The South Beach stuff was a little over $200.
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on January 11, 2014, 02:10:53 PM
Over priced like we said, I have friends down there now, so I stay with them. Great city to party and sight see.
Title: Re: Downtown Revitalization: Miami
Post by: Know Growth on January 11, 2014, 03:57:57 PM


By the way,in my post above I primarily referenced Miami Beach.

Growing up in vibrant, center- of- the- universe Miami,Downtown per se was never a discussion point. It was there. Amidst sprawl era.

Just as Jacksonville,only 2.583 decades later.