The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: thelakelander on October 02, 2013, 05:17:43 PM

Title: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: thelakelander on October 02, 2013, 05:17:43 PM
A 102 unit affordable apartment complex for senior citizens has been proposed for a downtown surface parking lot. Madison Landing Apartments will consist of multiple floors of housing over parking garage.  The project goes before the DDRB tomorrow.  We'll have more information on this development in tomorrow's main story.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Madison-Landing-Apartments/i-xwnrxQT/0/S/DDRB%2010.03.2013%20Agenda_Page_109-S.jpg)
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: thelakelander on October 02, 2013, 05:19:44 PM
The site is the Pearl Street parking lot behind KBJ Architects. It's directly across the street from Metropolitan Lofts.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Madison-Landing-Apartments/i-MvTmt9v/0/M/Madison%20Site-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: Cheshire Cat on October 02, 2013, 05:26:10 PM
So we are talking assisted living as well?
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: thelakelander on October 02, 2013, 05:31:01 PM
I don't believe this is an assisted living facility. However, the minimum age for tenants is 55.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: Cheshire Cat on October 02, 2013, 05:46:08 PM
Well dang, 55 is not old from my vantage point.  lol   I will be interested to hear more about what is planned and your take on it in your piece tomorrow.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: JeffreyS on October 02, 2013, 05:55:10 PM
Will there be a retail requirement?
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: thelakelander on October 02, 2013, 06:06:44 PM
Not sure how they're responding to that at this point. I'm still digging into all the information.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: Cheshire Cat on October 02, 2013, 06:23:01 PM
Will there be a retail requirement?
  Yes, they will have bingo on the ground floor!  lol
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: jcjohnpaint on October 02, 2013, 06:30:07 PM
Great news.  What ever happened to the proposal that was a block north of La Villa School of Arts. 
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: Cheshire Cat on October 02, 2013, 06:33:36 PM
Great news.  What ever happened to the proposal that was a block north of La Villa School of Arts. 
J.C. are you talking about the one a few years back or another more recently?
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: thelakelander on October 02, 2013, 07:12:07 PM
That was a response to the LaVilla RFP.  I would assume there would have to be some negotiation process to see if a deal with COJ could be achieved.  That alone could take months before even getting into the development process and the network of approvals, financing and permits needed before breaking ground. 

I'm going off on a tangent now but some may think I sound like a Debbie Downer when I say basing DT revitalization primarily around infill residential growth, specifically in the Northbank, is a bad idea.  Nothing wrong with infill (we need all we can get) but getting a single project from concept to completion takes years. Just look at 220 Riverside.  It's taken a good decade to get that project off the ground and it's only 300 units. 

Some (I don't) believe 10,000 people is the magic number. During the last decade, we added less than 2,000 and that was during the greatest urban development boom since the 1920s. If so, unless we're content of waiting another 20 years to get anywhere close to that number, we might want to make sure we have a few other "short term" foot traffic generating concepts high up on the priority list.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: Bill Hoff on October 02, 2013, 08:27:11 PM
This is the same type of development that is proposed for the 1400 block of Main Street. Basically, you can't make over a certain amount of money to live there, but they are not low-income either. There are other examples in Jax, including Madison Manner in the 'burbs. This project and the one on Main Street may be in competition for the same funding, in fact.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: coredumped on October 02, 2013, 09:44:39 PM
Wait, surface parking lots turning in to buildings? What is this, April fools or opposite day?  :D ;D

This is good news, more people downtown is always a good thing.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: Noone on October 03, 2013, 05:56:58 AM
This is the same type of development that is proposed for the 1400 block of Main Street. Basically, you can't make over a certain amount of money to live there, but they are not low-income either. There are other examples in Jax, including Madison Manner in the 'burbs. This project and the one on Main Street may be in competition for the same funding, in fact.

Just to be clear. One is in the new DIA zone and the other one is outside of the DIA zone but in an historic area. But there is connectivity?
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: mtraininjax on October 03, 2013, 07:25:56 AM
Lake - The 32202 economic data I was able to pull from 2011 showed this zip code to be dead last in Median Household Income at just over $15,000 per resident, of course there were only an estimated 6,000 residents in this zip code. I am not sure how assisted living will boost the Median Income, but maybe the apartments will be converted to condos and raise the median property value.

Anyone know if the new facility will allow pets? More boomers have pets to help with alone issues. Before it is built, would be a great time to incorporate new ideas.
Title: Re: Residential Midrise Proposed for Downtown
Post by: Overstreet on October 03, 2013, 08:03:05 AM
I guess it has been a while since I've been to KBJ. According to the site plan the church to the south of KBJ is or will become green space. It was storage for KBJ. They probably took it down a long time ago.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: thelakelander on October 03, 2013, 08:19:47 AM
Lol, KBJ tore it down years ago.  It's been a vacant lot ever since.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: Lunican on October 03, 2013, 08:22:19 AM
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-jun-architecture-firm-kbj-destroys-historic-church
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: Garden guy on October 03, 2013, 08:25:40 AM
Too bad we cant get these people doing this project to spend that money on the old courthouse maybe...so much empty space waiting for an idea
Title: Re: Residential Midrise Proposed for Downtown
Post by: Jason on October 03, 2013, 08:35:13 AM
Man, this is great news!

Is it just me or am I witnessing some 2002 dejavu?  Urban residential under construction, 2 or more developments on the boards, and a soon to be announced renovation of the Landing.....  seems familiar!  :)
Title: Re: Residential Midrise Proposed for Downtown
Post by: jcjohnpaint on October 03, 2013, 08:45:56 AM
fingers crossed. 
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: Bill Hoff on October 03, 2013, 08:46:14 AM
This is the same type of development that is proposed for the 1400 block of Main Street. Basically, you can't make over a certain amount of money to live there, but they are not low-income either. There are other examples in Jax, including Madison Manner in the 'burbs. This project and the one on Main Street may be in competition for the same funding, in fact.

Just to be clear. One is in the new DIA zone and the other one is outside of the DIA zone but in an historic area. But there is connectivity?

I believe the 2 projects require assistance from the same source of federal funding, which is finite and competitive.
Title: Re: Residential Midrise Proposed for Downtown
Post by: urbaknight on October 03, 2013, 02:10:16 PM
Why is it that downtown infill projects require so much permitting, zoning considerations and what seems to be a tug of war style fight that usually takes years to resolve? And most of the time too much time goes by and the financing falls trough, killing the project.

But if a project is purposed in the burbs, it's finished and completely built before anyone even knows it was ever planed?
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: JaxJag on October 03, 2013, 02:31:27 PM
 :'( :'( so true.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: ricker on October 03, 2013, 05:08:47 PM
Why is it that downtown infill projects require so much permitting, zoning considerations and what seems to be a tug of war style fight that usually takes years to resolve? And most of the time too much time goes by and the financing falls trough, killing the project.

But if a project is purposed in the burbs, it's finished and completely built before anyone even knows it was ever planed?

Excellent questions.
Title: Re: Residential Midrise Proposed for Downtown
Post by: jcjohnpaint on October 03, 2013, 05:32:11 PM
Why is it that downtown infill projects require so much permitting, zoning considerations and what seems to be a tug of war style fight that usually takes years to resolve? And most of the time too much time goes by and the financing falls trough, killing the project.

But if a project is purposed in the burbs, it's finished and completely built before anyone even knows it was ever planed?

You know I was going to ask the same thing.  You here a proposal in the southside for 200 more residence and they broke ground a week before the write up.  I know the formatting of the buildings are different, but a little re arranging the buildings and you could have a great urban design.  I am not really sure what it is all about, but it should not take even a year to get something like this off the ground.  I mean they are not even places that are going to have that many people when you really compare. 
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: jcjohnpaint on October 03, 2013, 05:33:06 PM
Sorry (hear)
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: thelakelander on October 03, 2013, 06:36:47 PM
Why is it that downtown infill projects require so much permitting, zoning considerations and what seems to be a tug of war style fight that usually takes years to resolve? And most of the time too much time goes by and the financing falls trough, killing the project.

But if a project is purposed in the burbs, it's finished and completely built before anyone even knows it was ever planed?

Suburban projects take time to build as well.  Just look at the recent news about Belk building at Sleiman's shopping center on Atlantic.  Sleiman has been working to build a shopping center on the site for years.  I've known about it at least since 2008/2009.  Same goes for SJTC and River City Marketplace.  While there is an extra layer of public micromanagement the spot light always falls on DT projects because people have been waiting for it's turnaround for decades. After all, DT is the front door of the city. Regardless of what people think about it, it's always going to draw more press.

However, one overlooked thing is that many suburban projects are developed on properties where their entitlements and interior infrastructure networks are already in place. That makes it easy for a Nordstrom Rack (Markets at Town Center) or Deerwood Lofts to go up quickly after a deal is signed.  Half of the work to make a project like that feasible has already taken place years in advance.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: I-10east on October 03, 2013, 10:51:13 PM
Will there be a retail requirement?
  Yes, they will have bingo on the ground floor!  lol

LMAO!

I don't exactly think 'retail' when I think of elderly living. The Cathedral Complex (or any senior living place in Jax) doesn't have any. I'd be very surprised if any sidewalk-side retail will be within that building.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: I-10east on October 03, 2013, 10:55:22 PM
Too bad we cant get these people doing this project to spend that money on the old courthouse maybe...so much empty space waiting for an idea

Yeah an old asbestos having, mold laden unadorned building would have been great....
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: Noone on October 03, 2013, 11:07:42 PM
Why is it that downtown infill projects require so much permitting, zoning considerations and what seems to be a tug of war style fight that usually takes years to resolve? And most of the time too much time goes by and the financing falls trough, killing the project.

But if a project is purposed in the burbs, it's finished and completely built before anyone even knows it was ever planed?

Excellent questions.

Another reason is corporate welfare. We have a new DIA and can you believe that if you are patient enough you just wait until the next round of taxpayer money is made available. The most recent example occurred at the 7/24/13 DIA Board meeting and before the 8/19/13 start of the new CEO of the DIA Aundra Wallace.

Imagine participating and hearing people not on the agenda then being recognized and asking for $25,000 for a piece of taxpayer money that has been made available by Mayor Brown.
Now imagine that at a DIA Board meeting a document is released at the end of a marathon meeting and it's an Authorization to Negotiate and Engage on Various Downtown Projects and it's from OED (Office of Economic Development) Surprise! The DIA Board approves it. That $25,000 has now turned into $250,000. This has to be positive.


imagine attending a completely different local Govt. meeting that has to do with this new highly restricted DIA zone and the point of contention is the future economic opportunity that will occur on our St. johns River our American heritage River a FEDERAL, FEDERAL, FEDERAL, Initiative and hearing that only one vendor will be the recipient of economic opportunity. The Public Trust just totally crushed.

Couple this with the new guy from Visit Jacksonville CEO Paul Astleford just on the job for 10 months identifying 32 organizations that are hindering Tourism and everyone should be saying "RICO" The man nails it.

But back to the thread. Affordable elderly apartments and Aundra Wallace was touching on this more than once at meetings that I attended and FEDERAL money that is probably available for section 8 housing in addition to other urban DIA housing options should continue to the infill residency that will assist in making fixed streetcar rail a reality in Downtown Jacksonville.

Is there a DIA meeting of any kind tomorrow? Anyone.


Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: Charles Hunter on October 04, 2013, 06:49:18 AM
Too bad we cant get these people doing this project to spend that money on the old courthouse maybe...so much empty space waiting for an idea

Yeah an old asbestos having, mold laden unadorned building would have been great....

Don't forget the rats reported to be living there ...
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: vicupstate on October 04, 2013, 08:30:22 AM
Why is it that downtown infill projects require so much permitting, zoning considerations and what seems to be a tug of war style fight that usually takes years to resolve? And most of the time too much time goes by and the financing falls trough, killing the project.

But if a project is purposed in the burbs, it's finished and completely built before anyone even knows it was ever planed?

While I agree with the points Lake and others have made in response to this, one other issue is getting financing in the private sector is probably much easier for a suburban project than an urban one, especially in Jacksonville.  There is a lot more perceived risk with doing something DT, especially if it isn't new construction.   That is why the reliance on federal tax credits and programs is so common.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: CityLife on October 04, 2013, 09:01:32 AM
Development projects that don't require a public hearing are approved by staff, typically after review from multiple departments. This happens after initial meetings with developers and their engineers, lawyers, architects, planners, etc. Followed by a formal review of the project, where there may be lengthy back and forth. I've been involved with projects that don't require a public hearing, but take significantly longer to get approved than a routine PUD due to their complexity.

If a development doesn't require a rezoning or doesn't fall within an overlay like Riverside/Springfield/Downtown, there is not opportunity for public involvement in the process, nor should there be if a development meets codes. The extra layer of review in those places is to ensure that projects are held to a higher standard and to be able to involve the public in the process.

Say what you will about the DDRB or historic preservation boards, but the Family Dollar at State and Newnan should be evidence enough that they are needed. Whether or not they are functioning properly and streamlined for ease of development is a whole different discussion.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: thelakelander on October 04, 2013, 09:49:13 AM
Great example. That Family Dollar and McDonald's went up pretty quick.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: Noone on October 04, 2013, 12:55:04 PM
DIA meeting today at 4pm. 1st floor city hall open to the public. Anyone going? Free Parking for everyone. Its the Downtown Experience subcommittee meeting of the DIA and is everyone excited about the new Waterway signage that is pre Aundra Wallace? The total crushing of the Public Trust. Have a call in to Don Redman and Scott Wilson.

A new Authority
Embrace It
Or
It will Embrace Us

Paul Astleford is a hero.

Ben-JCCI we need to kayak Downtown before 2025
Title: Re: Residential Midrise Proposed for Downtown
Post by: JackDiablo on December 26, 2013, 02:14:39 PM
We need more (affordable) places for young people to live Downtown. Period.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: jaxjaguar on December 26, 2013, 03:04:53 PM
What ever happened with this project and the Ambassador hotel project?
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: JayBird on December 26, 2013, 04:53:34 PM
^ it was only a proposal, the developer hasn't purchased the ambassador property yet. I believe they are waiting on city funding.
Title: Re: Affordable Elderly Apartments proposed for downtown
Post by: jaxjaguar on December 26, 2013, 04:59:00 PM
sigh... I was really hoping these projects would be breaking ground this coming year... Guess that area will be dead and vacant another 5-10 years :(
Title: Re: Residential Midrise Proposed for Downtown
Post by: duvaldude08 on January 14, 2014, 04:55:21 PM
Whats going on with this?