The Jaxson

Living in Jacksonville => The Arts => Visual Arts => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on May 12, 2013, 03:02:30 AM

Title: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Metro Jacksonville on May 12, 2013, 03:02:30 AM
Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Photography/Public-School-4/i-FZHDpzs/0/L/ps27-L.jpg)

It has captured the imaginations of Jaxons for decades. In this essay, photographic artist David Gano captures incredible images of what's happening inside Annie Lytle Public School.  




Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-may-annie-lytle-public-school-public-school-4
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: dougskiles on May 12, 2013, 07:33:38 AM
Great photos!

Without having to read through all of the past threads about this school building, can anyone (presumably Timkin) tell me what needs to be done just to make the building structurally safe and prevent it from further deterioration?
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Jumpinjack on May 12, 2013, 08:09:50 AM
No images of the incredible and persistent workers who are volunteering every weekend to clean and protect this building. They deserve more credit than those people who have vandalized this building for years.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Dog Walker on May 12, 2013, 08:20:46 AM
Doug,  the school is basically still structurally sound.  It was built to "fireproof" standards of the day which means that it is solid masonry.  Even the interior partition walls are hollow clay tile covered with wire lath and plaster.  The ceilings are wire lath and plaster, the roofs are cement as are the floors and stairs.

The window frames and the roof over the auditorium were wood and between rot and fire, they are gone.

Aside from the fire and rot, the major cause of deterioration of the building is vandalism.  Generations of them have broken holes in walls and floors, started fires inside and covered every available surface with layers of graffiti.  It has proved impossible to keep the building secured against them.

Tim and his rotating crew of volunteers has cleared the grounds and building of invasive vegetation and have removed tons of debris from the interior (no exaggeration!).  Painting the interior will be the next step.  It is difficult for people to see the potential in the building through all of the damage, so Tim and crew are trying to make it as presentable as possible with volunteer resources.

Huck Finn and his fence are nothing compared to Tim!
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: dougskiles on May 12, 2013, 10:27:44 AM
I need to come check it out.  Is it only open on Saturday mornings?
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: MEGATRON on May 12, 2013, 12:25:55 PM
Doug,  the school is basically still structurally sound.  It was built to "fireproof" standards of the day which means that it is solid masonry.  Even the interior partition walls are hollow clay tile covered with wire lath and plaster.  The ceilings are wire lath and plaster, the roofs are cement as are the floors and stairs.

The window frames and the roof over the auditorium were wood and between rot and fire, they are gone.

Aside from the fire and rot, the major cause of deterioration of the building is vandalism.  Generations of them have broken holes in walls and floors, started fires inside and covered every available surface with layers of graffiti.  It has proved impossible to keep the building secured against them.

Tim and his rotating crew of volunteers has cleared the grounds and building of invasive vegetation and have removed tons of debris from the interior (no exaggeration!).  Painting the interior will be the next step.  It is difficult for people to see the potential in the building through all of the damage, so Tim and crew are trying to make it as presentable as possible with volunteer resources.

Huck Finn and his fence are nothing compared to Tim!
structurally sound except for the lack of roof
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: FSBA on May 12, 2013, 12:36:04 PM
I remember sneaking in there one Saturday night when I was 16. Amazed the place is still standing.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: ben says on May 12, 2013, 01:04:10 PM
I remember sneaking in there one Saturday night when I was 16. Amazed the place is still standing.

Same here. Used to sneak in. The story was "there are birds with their heads ripped off in there" or "there are dead homeless people"...we went in anyway. Creepy but harmless. Good times!
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: FSBA on May 12, 2013, 02:15:38 PM
I remember after the last big fire people were saying that most of the original structure was destroyed. Is that accurate? Looking at some photos from 2009 I can see some obvious deterioration in the auditorium.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: PATSY/AUTUMN on May 12, 2013, 02:49:42 PM
Dog Walker described things perfectly!  Yesterday we posted more NO TRESPASSING signs...As we were leaving and locking the gate, here came 2 visitors.  That was the 2nd of the day.  One of our younger members gave them our contact card with our information on it.  We are on Facebook at SAVE PUBLIC SCHOOL #4 / Annie Lytle.  It will also direct you to our web site. 
We do our work on Saturdays.  Some of us try to arrive at 9.  It takes me around 10.  We work for at least 2 hours.  Volunteers sign releases to exempt the owners from any liability.  Anyone interested is welcome.
As Dog Walker said we have removed tons of debris and have tons more to do.  But, we are definitely making great progress.  (Photos can be seen on our FB and web site)
Our leader is Tim/Timkin on MJ, TimmycanofJacksonville on FB.  He is awesome and determined.  All our volunteers are awesome.  Feel free to inquire here or any of the above mentioned. 
As always, thank you Metro Jax for use of your forum
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Dog Walker on May 12, 2013, 05:33:21 PM
I remember after the last big fire people were saying that most of the original structure was destroyed. Is that accurate? Looking at some photos from 2009 I can see some obvious deterioration in the auditorium.

2/3rds of the roof collapsed years ago from a neglected leak.  The portion over the stage was still standing until last year when some vandals torched that.  The fire was spectacular looking because it was up so high, but it did not damage the masonry.  There are still wooden frames in the windows at that end of the space that are rotted, but unburned.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: brett2752 on May 12, 2013, 05:40:11 PM
savepublicschoolnumber4.com (http://savepublicschoolnumber4.com) is the website!
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on May 12, 2013, 06:09:03 PM
I remember after the last big fire people were saying that most of the original structure was destroyed. Is that accurate? Looking at some photos from 2009 I can see some obvious deterioration in the auditorium.

Lets just say, do not believe everything you hear :)


The initial report as published in the TU stated , from JFRD that 90% of the structure was destroyed.. We are talking about a structure made of Poured Concrete , steel and minimum 18 inch thick brick walls...Destroyed from a fire , where arsonists , putting some type of fuel ( I presume) , and igniting the wooden rafters of the remaining 1/3 of the Auditorium roof which was still in place.  Some how, even though this was an isolated fire 35 feet in the air, which was extinguished fairly quickly , "the structure was 90% destroyed".

Well...   That was not even close to accurate.

For years , myself and volunteers have worked on the grounds of The Annie Lytle School.  and in that time the changes we have made to the grounds , and the interior of the building , speak for themselves.

I would like to thank the Photographer who did this piece for these great pictures. They just did myself and my crew a great favor, and that was to show , in pictures, where this building stood , condition-wise , shortly following the fire.  The debris shown in some of these pictures , is gone.

With regard to "Preserving the structure", we are also doing our level best , in that regard.

On the main building , even though the base roof is poured concrete, and intact, there is a build-up roof , made of wood . Most of it has a metal covering , and even though nearly a century old,  most of the metal covering is intact, preserving the build-up structure.

Above the FRONT of the School , sometime since an initial fire, set at the front entrance to the building,  a newer build-up roof was done, covered with rolled roofing.  Rolled roofing , not holding up as long as metal does, deteriorates.  We have repaired it as best we could without materials , but at some point will install a fresh rolled roofing to it.

The Auditorium , except for the portion over the stage, is completely void of a roof. Because it is also constructed of Poured concrete and brick, it remains intact.

We will, at some point, dismantle the remaining portion of the roof over the stage , as it is failing anyway.

For now, we continue every weekend to remove debris from the building.  A monumental task , would be an understatement.

To answer the question of the stability of this structure...In short.  It isn't in danger of collapse in any way, without some profound assistance. .. meaning demolition. 

The point of our effort has been and will always be, to help save this landmark from the fate so many buildings in Jacksonville have faced, because they are, supposedly,  "Structurally Unsound" or  "Non-adaptable to another use".  Both reasons would be about the farthest thing from the truth in this instance.

I would invite the photographer to tour the School again at some point.  I think they  ( and you) will be surprised at what a group of dedicated , hard-working people have accomplished.

I am certainly proud of my crew and our endeavor to save Public School Number Four.

Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Jumpinjack on May 12, 2013, 07:25:06 PM
If Annie Lytle School finds a new life and that beautiful building is saved, it will be totally due to you and your volunteers. Lots of people visit the building but only a rare few are able to see what lies behind that debris and bright vulgarisms. Preservation is a trick of the eye, to see from the current sad condition to the complete whole future and then make it happen.  Tim, I've said it for a long time, you deserve an award.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: PATSY/AUTUMN on May 12, 2013, 07:30:44 PM
Tim certainly needs an award, but I bet he would say his best reward would be to see the building completely restored and busy with appreciative people. As he recently said to a visitor "they can put in a Walmart if they keep the building intact."
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: dougskiles on May 12, 2013, 07:52:18 PM
What if it were preserved in its current state, made safe for some kind of "indoor/outdoor" use that didn't require HVAC, but not restored to its original state?
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on May 13, 2013, 03:54:54 AM
What if it were preserved in its current state, made safe for some kind of "indoor/outdoor" use that didn't require HVAC, but not restored to its original state?

Can you elaborate on your idea ?   

Do you mean leave the roof off of the Auditorium?  No windows, doors, lighting, plumbing?   No roof  on the main building?

Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: dougskiles on May 13, 2013, 05:01:16 AM
Ideas haven't been developed yet.  I am looking forward to seeing I firsthand, and maybe some will come forth.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: fieldafm on May 13, 2013, 07:59:41 AM
I think in its current state it would make a great live music venue.  No need for a roof, would be cost effective, noise concerns would be minimal (it is next to the highway) and with a burgeoning neighborhood developing around it you'll have a market within walking distance.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: dougskiles on May 13, 2013, 08:26:13 AM
^That would be very cool.

How about a community art school?

One of my favorite places (anywhere) is the Sloss Furnace site in Birmingham, AL.  They preserved the original structures and basically turned it over to the local arts community for teaching blacksmithing, welding, casting, etc.  Artists can rent space (cheap) and then have access to the forge and furnaces.  We don't have anything like that in Jacksonville (that I know of).

It is worth taking a trip to Birmingham just to see this place:
http://slossfurnaces.com/ (http://slossfurnaces.com/)
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on May 13, 2013, 09:23:17 AM

It is worth taking a trip to Birmingham just to see this place:
http://slossfurnaces.com/ (http://slossfurnaces.com/)

Yes, it most certainly is and that is a great idea.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: sandyshoes on May 13, 2013, 09:59:17 AM
Sloss Furnaces was on TAPS - it's haunted, according to their findings.  You can probably pull it up and watch the episode.  Too bad all the local stories about Annie being haunted have already been poo-pooed;  would have made a nice episode for them. 
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Dog Walker on May 13, 2013, 11:34:12 AM
Well, Annie was haunted-sort of-for a while.  There were reports of strange wailing and hissing noises in the school.  Scared the daylights out of some intruders.

We later found remains of pigeons and squirrels under a big hole in the ceiling where it was obvious that a family of Barn Owls had nested.  Barns Owls are responsible for a lot of "haunted" buildings.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: davidgano on May 13, 2013, 01:29:12 PM
To all who like my photos -- a sincere thank you. I photographed the building a few times, but this excursion on New Years Day was fantastic. Thanks also to those making the effort to save the structure; I can't imagine the work it will take.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: sonoandrea on May 13, 2013, 07:16:18 PM
@dougskiles - i don't know if the forge will be available for rent, but there is a blacksmithing going into CoRK next month who will be offering classes.

I thought Annie Lytle/PS4 would be awesome as a Southern Rock and Blues museum with the auditorium available for performances
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: PATSY/AUTUMN on May 13, 2013, 07:29:37 PM
Sandy Shoes, lord, God, no!!!  We have enough problems with trespassers and vandals.  Ghost Hunters would only draw more attention to it.  And ghost stories and the such is one of the draws for the trouble makers.  I go into the building Saturdays and some weekdays, too.  The only thing scary is the dark parks.  NO GHOSTS!  We have pretty much run the vagrants out by getting rid of their belongings.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: PATSY/AUTUMN on May 13, 2013, 07:48:14 PM
davidgano, we invite you to drop by one Saturday mid morning and check out the progress we are making.  It is like night and day.
And to DogWalker.  We thank you for setting some of the rumors straight.  Such a bunch of stupid crap. 
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: fieldafm on May 13, 2013, 08:22:31 PM
^That would be very cool.

How about a community art school?

One of my favorite places (anywhere) is the Sloss Furnace site in Birmingham, AL.  They preserved the original structures and basically turned it over to the local arts community for teaching blacksmithing, welding, casting, etc.  Artists can rent space (cheap) and then have access to the forge and furnaces.  We don't have anything like that in Jacksonville (that I know of).

It is worth taking a trip to Birmingham just to see this place:
http://slossfurnaces.com/ (http://slossfurnaces.com/)

I think a shared workspace for metal workers and craftsmen is certainly needed in Jacksonville.

Do you have an owner though (Tarpon) that is willing to be a landlord?  If not, who buys it (and deals with the subsequent land lease issues) just to rent it out to users that would probably have fairly high turnover?   

I just think a motivated owner with just a little bit of money could purchase the building (for a very modest profit to the investor) and rehab it pretty cheaply (it would be better off as raw as possible in that form) and host live events out of it.  Seems to be one of the most cost effective uses.   

Just thinking about the very large elephant in the room: the economic aspect of the building's current situation.

Now that the area underneath the bridge will be coming to life, and a surrounding neighborhood is springing to life around it... it's certainly one of the best times in decades to spark the conversation in a constructive manner.   
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: sheclown on May 13, 2013, 08:53:02 PM
Tarpon is the death of significant buildings.  Totally unresponsive. 
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: PATSY/AUTUMN on May 13, 2013, 09:09:26 PM
she clown, you said it well in just those few words
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: dougskiles on May 13, 2013, 09:31:12 PM
@dougskiles - i don't know if the forge will be available for rent, but there is a blacksmithing going into CoRK next month who will be offering classes.

Tell me more!
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: dougskiles on May 13, 2013, 09:46:44 PM
Tarpon is the death of significant buildings.  Totally unresponsive.

TARPON IV LLC is no longer an active corporation as of May 3, 2013 (according to sunbiz.org).  The entity was voluntarily dissolved with the remaining assets divided among the members according to their rights and interests.

http://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/SearchResultDetail/EntityName/flal-l13000033647-fabf5b56-8469-482b-b6a0-7acf1edde5a6/TARPON%20IV/Page1 (http://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/SearchResultDetail/EntityName/flal-l13000033647-fabf5b56-8469-482b-b6a0-7acf1edde5a6/TARPON%20IV/Page1)

Anyone know which of the members obtained ownership of PS4?
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Stancel on May 14, 2013, 12:19:15 AM
Maybe they can turn the auditorium area into a garden, add a glass roof,  bring in some  plants, flowers, butterflies, maybe even birds, build some walkways, and maybe a small pond with fish. I think the proximity to Riverside Park makes the argument that it could be an extension of the park. As for what to do with the rest of the building, I don't know, but it could have some art theme, maybe also history theme in the rooms. It was after all an elementary school, so this idea seems more appropriate to its history than turning into another concert venue.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: dougskiles on May 14, 2013, 05:31:52 AM
^That is strange.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Dog Walker on May 14, 2013, 08:46:04 AM
^!!!!!!!!!!   Strange doesn't begin to cover it.  RICO?  Fraudulent sales?  Selling property on eBay?  It was the Tarpon IV registered in Florida that bought the tax deed of the school.  They haven't paid any taxes on it either since the purchase.

It is my opinion that they never visited the property even once before the bought it.  I think they just saw 44,000 sq. ft. at the junction of I-10 & I-95 for less than $90 thousand dollars and jumped at it.  When Timkin and I gave the representative a tour of the school after they had acquired it, we thought that his eyes were going to jump out of his head in shock.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: thelakelander on May 14, 2013, 09:08:34 AM
@dougskiles - i don't know if the forge will be available for rent, but there is a blacksmithing going into CoRK next month who will be offering classes.

Tell me more!

Here you go!

King Street Studios coming to Riverside (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-may-king-street-studios-coming-to-riverside)
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: sonoandrea on May 14, 2013, 10:18:28 AM
@dougskiles - here ya go: http://kingstreetstudios.weebly.com/  Its a husband and wife.  Apparently the wife used to own (or still owns?) Bead Here Now in 5 Points and the husband had a shop in the back where he also taught some lessons called the Itty Bitty Smithy (love the name!).  AND he is the metalworker who make the iron sculpture in front of Derby House (Fine...Derby on Park).  Personally, I cannot wait to take their knife-making, blacksmithing, and copper hammering classes!

@dougskiles - i don't know if the forge will be available for rent, but there is a blacksmithing going into CoRK next month who will be offering classes.

Tell me more!
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: dougskiles on May 14, 2013, 11:18:57 AM
^!!!!!!!!!!   Strange doesn't begin to cover it.  RICO?  Fraudulent sales?  Selling property on eBay?  It was the Tarpon IV registered in Florida that bought the tax deed of the school.  They haven't paid any taxes on it either since the purchase.

It is my opinion that they never visited the property even once before the bought it.  I think they just saw 44,000 sq. ft. at the junction of I-10 & I-95 for less than $90 thousand dollars and jumped at it.  When Timkin and I gave the representative a tour of the school after they had acquired it, we thought that his eyes were going to jump out of his head in shock.

I was wondering which group it was.

If they haven't paid the taxes yet, then when does it come up for a tax sale?

@dougskiles - here ya go: http://kingstreetstudios.weebly.com/  Its a husband and wife.  Apparently the wife used to own (or still owns?) Bead Here Now in 5 Points and the husband had a shop in the back where he also taught some lessons called the Itty Bitty Smithy (love the name!).  AND he is the metalworker who make the iron sculpture in front of Derby House (Fine...Derby on Park).  Personally, I cannot wait to take their knife-making, blacksmithing, and copper hammering classes!

I suspected it might be Robert Noelke's shop.  After visiting them at One Spark, I went to their website, which is where they mention PS4 as an ideal location for an art school.  That "sparked" the interest in my mind about the building.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Dog Walker on May 14, 2013, 01:20:40 PM
To return the school to being a school would be the least expensive and most straightforward rehabilitation.

If a dog track can be turned into a charter school an old school certainly can be.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: MEGATRON on May 14, 2013, 02:09:37 PM
The tax certificate sale is today.  PS4 has advertising number 021003.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: dougskiles on May 14, 2013, 04:07:55 PM
I can't get the link to work from the clerk's office.  I suppose that means the sale is over.  When do they post the result?
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Dog Walker on May 14, 2013, 04:11:15 PM
Just looked up the advertisement.  $9,018.37 and a note that there are other outstanding tax certificates. I'll say!

How long do you have to wait to turn a tax certificate into a real deed?
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: MEGATRON on May 14, 2013, 04:29:44 PM
I can't get the link to work from the clerk's office.  I suppose that means the sale is over.  When do they post the result?
Try this: https://duvalfl.realtaxlien.com/
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: MEGATRON on May 14, 2013, 04:33:35 PM
Just looked up the advertisement.  $9,018.37 and a note that there are other outstanding tax certificates. I'll say!

How long do you have to wait to turn a tax certificate into a real deed?
A minimum of two years then the certificate holder can submit an application for an auction of the property.  Gives all of you two years to raise some cash. TIME FOR A BAKE SALE.

(http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr112/sushi-q/dramatic-cupcake-dog1.gif)
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: MEGATRON on May 14, 2013, 04:42:06 PM
The Tax Certificate is a 3 year process, if they are already other outstanding certs in addition to todays cert sale then it may be up for Tax Deed Sale again (just how they purchased it) again next year. I'd have to research. Seems like a ripe time to make Tarpon IV an offer. I'd say in this market, with all the issues of that building, they might just be happy to get out of it what they have in it. Which isn't much. Maybe time for a fundraising effort.
If you make Tarpon IV an offer you'd still have to pay back the existing tax money owed.  If outstanding certificates exist, I would think your best bet is getting in touch with one of those certificate holders.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: MEGATRON on May 14, 2013, 04:59:06 PM
I may be wrong Megatron, but I'm pretty sure, the certs sold are pretty much like a passive investment. You would buy the property and the holder of the Tax Certs get paid their interest they are due, city gets the taxes of course.

You are correct, the back taxes would have to be paid of course, usually paid from by the seller from proceeds form the sale. If Tarpon isn't paying the taxes now, I'm sure that's what they are expecting. They are a huge company that buys thousands of tax certs and deeds. I suspect they only way to get them to give it away for what they have in it (including the taxes they haven't paid) is hit them with the Historic "save the school" angle, if they give a hoot about that...who knows.

I don't believe at this point the certificate holders have any say, nor do they care. They just want their interest payment.
Far from an expert in this area but I think someone who has been holding a certificate for at least 2 years can submit an application for a tax deed sale (hence why I say the best bet is contacting the owner of existing certificates if they exist).  If approved, the sale will occur via auction.  If the property is sold at auction, the proceeds go to the tax certificate holder who has already paid off the back taxes.  If the property does not sell at auction, the certificate holder takes title. 
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on May 14, 2013, 05:16:56 PM
I may be wrong Megatron, but I'm pretty sure, the certs sold are pretty much like a passive investment. You would buy the property and the holder of the Tax Certs get paid their interest they are due, city gets the taxes of course.

You are correct, the back taxes would have to be paid of course, usually paid from by the seller from proceeds form the sale. If Tarpon isn't paying the taxes now, I'm sure that's what they are expecting. They are a huge company that buys thousands of tax certs and deeds. I suspect they only way to get them to give it away for what they have in it (including the taxes they haven't paid) is hit them with the Historic "save the school" angle, if they give a hoot about that...who knows.

I don't believe at this point the certificate holders have any say, nor do they care. They just want their interest payment.

My 2cents on whether Tarpon cares or not about the building being saved:


In a word.   NO


They certainly did not object, however,  when we offered to clean it up and clean it out. :)

So.. has someone  purchased the Tax Certificates?


Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: MEGATRON on May 14, 2013, 05:39:33 PM
I may be wrong Megatron, but I'm pretty sure, the certs sold are pretty much like a passive investment. You would buy the property and the holder of the Tax Certs get paid their interest they are due, city gets the taxes of course.

You are correct, the back taxes would have to be paid of course, usually paid from by the seller from proceeds form the sale. If Tarpon isn't paying the taxes now, I'm sure that's what they are expecting. They are a huge company that buys thousands of tax certs and deeds. I suspect they only way to get them to give it away for what they have in it (including the taxes they haven't paid) is hit them with the Historic "save the school" angle, if they give a hoot about that...who knows.

I don't believe at this point the certificate holders have any say, nor do they care. They just want their interest payment.

My 2cents on whether Tarpon cares or not about the building being saved:


In a word.   NO


They certainly did not object, however,  when we offered to clean it up and clean it out. :)

So.. has someone  purchased the Tax Certificates?
Does not appear that anyone has bid on the certificate.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: dougskiles on May 14, 2013, 09:00:29 PM
I may be wrong Megatron, but I'm pretty sure, the certs sold are pretty much like a passive investment. You would buy the property and the holder of the Tax Certs get paid their interest they are due, city gets the taxes of course.

You are correct, the back taxes would have to be paid of course, usually paid from by the seller from proceeds form the sale. If Tarpon isn't paying the taxes now, I'm sure that's what they are expecting. They are a huge company that buys thousands of tax certs and deeds. I suspect they only way to get them to give it away for what they have in it (including the taxes they haven't paid) is hit them with the Historic "save the school" angle, if they give a hoot about that...who knows.

I don't believe at this point the certificate holders have any say, nor do they care. They just want their interest payment.

My 2cents on whether Tarpon cares or not about the building being saved:


In a word.   NO


They certainly did not object, however,  when we offered to clean it up and clean it out. :)

So.. has someone  purchased the Tax Certificates?
Does not appear that anyone has bid on the certificate.

So, does it stay for sale until someone bids?

BTW, Timkin, Dogwalker gave me a tour of the building this afternoon.  Your work to preserve this old fortress is inspiring.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: PATSY/AUTUMN on May 14, 2013, 10:15:33 PM
God Bless you for that accolade!  Tim deserves so much praise for his efforts.  It is a joy and pleasure to be working alongside him.  I think all of our group would agree.  We are a family, thanks to him, without any feuding.
Glad you had Dog Walker for a guide.  He is great, too. 
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on May 15, 2013, 12:21:04 AM
If Annie Lytle School finds a new life and that beautiful building is saved, it will be totally due to you and your volunteers. Lots of people visit the building but only a rare few are able to see what lies behind that debris and bright vulgarisms. Preservation is a trick of the eye, to see from the current sad condition to the complete whole future and then make it happen.  Tim, I've said it for a long time, you deserve an award.

Jumpinjack.  Thank you so much. Words like yours inspire us. 

I've said this many times, but feel the need to say again, that I could never have accomplished what has been done on my own.  It is the hard work and determination of numbers of kind and diligent people.  All of these individuals deserve recognition.  They have all been selfless and hardworking. 

Our greatest reward would be to see it returned to being in some reasonable state of repair and for it to be a destination for the community, instead of a target for vandalism and a canvas for unattractive tagging.

If I could collect one dollar for every can of spray paint wasted inside that building, we could be well on our way to that goal.

I did, jokingly mention a Wal-mart.    While that would not be preferable, let alone practical ,  I think most of us would opt for that over another weed and trash-infested vacant lot.

We certainly hope this endeavor eventually pays off at some point.  Sooner than later :). 

Thank you all for your support!   We resume cleanup this Saturday, and as always , we welcome anyone who wants to help.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on May 15, 2013, 12:26:50 AM

BTW, Timkin, Dogwalker gave me a tour of the building this afternoon.  Your work to preserve this old fortress is inspiring.


Thank you, Doug.   With the amazing crew I am blessed to have helping me, it is taking shape. 

Cleaning up, after 40 years of vandalism in a 40,000 sf 2 story space is quite a task!  But the building is well worth the effort!

 Thank you, sir.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: MEGATRON on May 15, 2013, 08:19:41 AM
Everyone's efforts are admirable.  But, if you really want to save this building, you need to own it.  Form a 501(c)3, raise some cash, and buy it.  If the taxes are not being paid, you may have a golden and unique opportunity.  Right now, while admirable, you are doing janitorial work for the current owner.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: sandyshoes on May 15, 2013, 08:36:28 AM
Timkin, this may be my pie-in-the-sky dreaming again, but what if RAP and Springfield Preservation and any other preservation groups out there purchased it for their collective co-op headquarters - that building would serve as a "living" testimonial to historic preservation.  At least it would be occupied and saved, until someone else could come along with big bucks and a vision.  It's got room for meetings, workshops...? 
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Debbie Thompson on May 15, 2013, 01:09:31 PM
Sandyshoes, good idea, but for sure pie in the sky.  Where would RAP and SPAR get the money to rehab that building?  It would be them that needed the vision and big bucks, because it can't be occupied as it is.  Besides, SPAR already has a perfectly fine building on Main Street in Springfield.  Interestingly, what you proposed was recently floated as a plan by an interested buyer for the Haydon Burns Library Building...a center for non-profits.

Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on May 16, 2013, 10:52:54 AM
Great suggestion Sandy, and thank you for bringing it up.   As Debbie pointed out, money is the main factor which stands in the way of purchase and refurbishment of the School.  Money has always been a factor.  As time goes on , the tab for total renovation (in my opinion, only) continues to climb. 

SPAR and RAP have nice locations that are probably suitable for their needs.   At over 44,000 square feet, this space is a bit more than all the preservation groups in town would need, although it is a nice suggestion.

My group , for years had avoided the 501 c3  idea.    It may be necessary to continue.   I would definitely need guidance on that.

A music venue , Art School sounds wonderful . No objection to either of those , but I personally don't think they, alone , could sustain the investment.

A mixed-use development there , along with  Ock's  TOD Station / Skyway extension to the School is a concept I cannot ignore.

The problem there is , I'm not sure if the community, is on board with that idea, or , just as importantly, funding can be made available to make such a concept, viable .

We can dream.   And until something suitable does come to pass, we will continue the janitorial work.  We know the current owner will not, and for it to remain in that state is simply begging the city to demolish. 

We do not want that.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: MEGATRON on May 16, 2013, 11:26:01 AM
So, if I understand this right, you are perfectly willing to hang historic preservation over the head of this and any future owner, weighing down any potential future reuse of the building, but you are unwilling to put in the time raising funds to buy the property at a tax sale?  I think we are talking in the $10,000 range.

If this building's biggest advocates cannot envision an economically feasible and logical use of this building, considering the restoration that is necessary, then it is time to tear down the structure.  Nothing will ever come of the building.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on May 16, 2013, 11:51:29 AM
So, if I understand this right, you are perfectly willing to hang historic preservation over the head of this and any future owner, weighing down any potential future reuse of the building

Please reference where you saw me post that.


but you are unwilling to put in the time raising funds to buy the property at a tax sale?  I think we are talking in the $10,000 range.

Don't know where you got that from , Megatron.   I stated in my previous post  that we avoided the 501 c3 Idea.  We are entertaining the idea now. If you read the entire post ( I presume you did)  in the next sentence I said  "I would need guidance "   which is fact.  I have no experience in 501c3.  Sorry. Just being honest.

Do you have 12-13 million to put up for paying the back taxes, purchasing , refurbing the  School? 

How about a few million to tear it down?  You do know, if the City had to, it comes from your (and my) taxpayer dollars. 

Thank you for your viewpoint.. :)    We will continue our efforts and to help identify a way to adapt the building to some use.  And whether you feel we are doing something positive toward its development ,or not , the fact is, most every Saturday myself and my group are down there improving it's derelict state.   You are more than welcome to join us, if you are so inclined. 

Nothing will ever come of the building if nothing is all that is ever done to help it.

 WE  ARE  trying to do something.  WE ARE looking for a viable solution. 

I am not alone in the "hanging" of historic preservation.  It's previous owner sought local landmark designation for it in 2000 approved by City Council , so apparently they all felt it was worthy.

Your motive in you most recent  post is confusing , at best.

Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: MEGATRON on May 16, 2013, 01:58:02 PM
So, if I understand this right, you are perfectly willing to hang historic preservation over the head of this and any future owner, weighing down any potential future reuse of the building

Please reference where you saw me post that.


but you are unwilling to put in the time raising funds to buy the property at a tax sale?  I think we are talking in the $10,000 range.

Don't know where you got that from , Megatron.   I stated in my previous post  that we avoided the 501 c3 Idea.  We are entertaining the idea now. If you read the entire post ( I presume you did)  in the next sentence I said  "I would need guidance "   which is fact.  I have no experience in 501c3.  Sorry. Just being honest.

Do you have 12-13 million to put up for paying the back taxes, purchasing , refurbing the  School? 

How about a few million to tear it down?  You do know, if the City had to, it comes from your (and my) taxpayer dollars. 

Thank you for your viewpoint.. :)    We will continue our efforts and to help identify a way to adapt the building to some use.  And whether you feel we are doing something positive toward its development ,or not , the fact is, most every Saturday myself and my group are down there improving it's derelict state.   You are more than welcome to join us, if you are so inclined. 

Nothing will ever come of the building if nothing is all that is ever done to help it.

 WE  ARE  trying to do something.  WE ARE looking for a viable solution. 

I am not alone in the "hanging" of historic preservation.  It's previous owner sought local landmark designation for it in 2000 approved by City Council , so apparently they all felt it was worthy.

Your motive in you most recent  post is confusing , at best.
Hold on.  12 to 13 million.  WTF did you get that number?  If that is the number, why do you even bother?  The property is doomed.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on May 16, 2013, 04:23:20 PM
^ again... Thank you for your viewpoint.   A developer back in 2006 estimated 8-9 million for total renovation of the building.. that did not factor purchase of the entire property ( not just the building.. the building and the land below it is owned by one entity. The surrounding land and adjacent lots by another)   You have to factor : Lighting , Landscaping, Fencing , PARKING, I could go on and on....  The price has not gone down since then.  Almost always , it costs more to rehab an existing building than to go new-build... Not that I speak from experience, but that many old buildings STILL get saved and renovated.   Unfortunately the trend in Jacksonville , is mostly to take them down.   Its not cost effective ..its doomed .. There is no way it can be done.

If Historic Buildings everywhere hinged on this mindset , we would live in a world , void of Older buildings.

I bother because unlike the naysayers of the community who say it can't be done, certainly wouldn't be bothered to get up , get out and actually do something to help....  I care, my team cares , and we will continue to do what we're doing until a way to put the place back to use is identified.

  Your opinion: The property is doomed.  I disagree.

 Feel free to continue.   We intend to.

Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Noone on May 16, 2013, 05:15:44 PM
^ Palms Fish Camp- Who will be getting a million bucks and they never even opened the door? And the flip side to that is who should be disbarred? PS4 is land locked. True? Did anyone go or participate in the Jacksonville Waterways Commission at the 5/15/13 meeting? 2009-442 established by ordinance is the way to go. The Artificial Reef Trust Fund. it is becoming wildly successful.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: PATSY/AUTUMN on May 17, 2013, 06:01:06 PM
I would personally like to thank David for the photos and article he has posted.  We have had a lot of new volunteers to our project since the article first appeared.  Seems to have awakened or reawakened many to her plight.
MANY THANKS, DAVID!  Looking forward to meeting you.
and thanks to Metro Jax for its help!
Patsy Bryant, member of Annie Lytle Preservation
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on May 21, 2013, 07:20:07 PM
^ Agree , Patsy.  David's photography is awesome. Thanks so much for the pictures and story.  Please do drop by the School to see the changes since you took these.  I think you will be surprised.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Noone on May 22, 2013, 07:07:16 AM
^ Palms Fish Camp- Who will be getting a million bucks and they never even opened the door? And the flip side to that is who should be disbarred? PS4 is land locked. True? Did anyone go or participate in the Jacksonville Waterways Commission at the 5/15/13 meeting? 2009-442 established by ordinance is the way to go. The Artificial Reef Trust Fund. it is becoming wildly successful.

Nice Pictures. How about a photo shoot of Palms Fish Camp? The floating dock at Shipyards that at the 5/3/13 DIA Subcommittee meeting of the Downtown Experience I was told NO by Tony Allegretti and Paul Crawford if someone wanted to pull up and use it. It should be outside the scope of the RFI. Just like the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier and we all know how that turned out. Timkin, What is the deal with the landlocked PS4 Property?
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on May 22, 2013, 03:15:10 PM
^ Palms Fish Camp- Who will be getting a million bucks and they never even opened the door? And the flip side to that is who should be disbarred? PS4 is land locked. True? Did anyone go or participate in the Jacksonville Waterways Commission at the 5/15/13 meeting? 2009-442 established by ordinance is the way to go. The Artificial Reef Trust Fund. it is becoming wildly successful.

Nice Pictures. How about a photo shoot of Palms Fish Camp? The floating dock at Shipyards that at the 5/3/13 DIA Subcommittee meeting of the Downtown Experience I was told NO by Tony Allegretti and Paul Crawford if someone wanted to pull up and use it. It should be outside the scope of the RFI. Just like the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier and we all know how that turned out. Timkin, What is the deal with the landlocked PS4 Property?

The foundation that bought the entire tract, had the School / Land below the School cut into a separate tract.  a few years ago  that tract ( School and land below the School )was bought up at a tax sale by Tarpon LLC.   So the foundation remains in ownership of the rest of the property all surrounding the School and adjacent lots behind the School's back yard on the College St. side . ( Corner College and Roselle) 
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Noone on May 28, 2013, 02:29:32 AM
So it sounds like the Foundation is the bad guy in this. Or shrewd investor. Who is the Foundation?  So Tarpon LLC owns the school and the Foundation owns a 1' 5' 10' whatever piece of land surrounding the school. Interesting. So the Foundation is just sitting on an option to buy.

Hey, I'll still come by one weekend and do some cleanup if you will write a check for 2009-442 the Artificial Reef Trust Fund and I will deliver it personally at city council or Waterways.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Dog Walker on May 30, 2013, 11:24:40 AM
Bad news for the school...more damage.

This morning at about 6:30AM a truck traveling at a high rate of speed off of the Fuller Warren Bridge went straight across Park St., down the short piece of Pennsular Place and missed the turn onto Chelsea.  Probably didn't know it was there.  The truck went over the debris pile, blasted through the chain link gates, destroying them, just missed the flag pole and smashed into the wall beside the steps to the front entrance.  That wall was completely destroyed as was the truck.

No information about the condition of the driver at this point.

The poor school just can't catch a break. Now they are running over it.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Josh on May 30, 2013, 04:56:28 PM
Snapped a quick shot on the way home to give an idea of what happened. It's hard to imagine this went down as described.

(http://i.imgur.com/O2Qt06c.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Dog Walker on May 30, 2013, 06:00:27 PM
On our closer examination this afternoon it is obvious that there was no braking attempted before the curve.  It looks like the truck hit the debris pile and went airborne for several yards, hitting the ground near the flag pole.  There might have been some attempt to brake before hitting the wall, maybe not.  Pieces of molded concrete weighing hundreds of pounds were thrown twenty feet.

If the driver wasn't severely injured much credit must be given to modern vehicle safety systems and blind luck.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: PATSY/AUTUMN on May 30, 2013, 06:29:17 PM
DW, I went back this afternoon and took more pictures from different angles.  I had just pulled in the back  and parked when a group of about 6 start walking in.  I approached them politely, as I always do, and advised that I was there with permission of the owners and that we have been instructed that anyone entering w/o permission we have orders to call JSO immediately.  The one who had stepped inside the fence backed up!  We watched them for a while to see if they kept going, which they did.  I told my daughter to take their picture but she didn't hear me.  I try to take pics. of everyone coming on property and make sure they see me do it.  I may go back by again tomorrow just to check on things.  My concern at present is more fools on the property to look at the damage, possiblytote some away as souvenirs or throw the debris all over simply for the joy of being destructive.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Dog Walker on May 31, 2013, 09:17:46 AM
Thanks for your care, Patsy.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: PATSY/AUTUMN on May 31, 2013, 05:59:39 PM
You know how much I love it! :)
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: PATSY/AUTUMN on June 01, 2013, 07:23:49 PM
Our volunteer group led by Timkin was there again this morning.  We cleaned up as much of the devastation as we could..Special thanks to Trish, Brett and Tim who did most of the hard work.  Trish "took one for the team." :(  and Brett did quite a job at "dumpster diving." ;) and Tim, as usual, did some kick-ass work. :P  Autumn also was contributer. ;)  Barbara, Kinsey and I supervised.  Angel also stopped to check things out and offer his input.  Thanks to all!!  Things looked much better at quitting time than when we arrived.  Thanks to Metro Jax for being the only source of information in the event of Thursday morning and Dog Walker for his devotion to all his pet projects
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on June 02, 2013, 03:47:07 PM
Particularly surprising about the concrete materials used at the time this building was made is their durability.  The Brick work on the interior of the wall was broken from the impact, yet all the exterior concrete trim pieces and blocks (except the top piece, already damaged and broken, now shattered ) suffered a little chipping but was not broken.  All of that can be put back in place when it is rebuilt...and make no mistake about it, we will put it back like it was ;)
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: davidgano on June 13, 2013, 10:15:12 AM
Patsy/Autumn, Timkin and all -- thanks for... well.. the thanks :)  I'd love to come back by and do some more shots!
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Momo Clutter on July 12, 2013, 10:40:27 PM
Are you all still welcoming volunteers to come?
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: johncb on July 13, 2013, 01:22:53 AM
While I appreciate you alls enthusiasm,I truly believe you're being completely unrealistic. I would suggest taking some of that admirable energy,and devote it to something more productive,like going in to poorer neighborhoods and cleaning empty lots piled with garbage and planting some flowers or vegetables.Or better yet,join habijax and make a real difference fixing up some elderly persons home.Like the Ambassador(wich I managed for years and was vilified for pointing out how cost prohibitive restoration would be) this poor building is too far gone for rehab.8-9 million that was quoted earlier wouldnt begin to scratch the surface,it would cost that much just to stabilize.It really astonishes me that someone can be so BLIND  to reality of costs concerning restoring old buildings.No offense intended.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Dog Walker on July 13, 2013, 10:53:42 AM
While I appreciate you alls enthusiasm,I truly believe you're being completely unrealistic. I would suggest taking some of that admirable energy,and devote it to something more productive,like going in to poorer neighborhoods and cleaning empty lots piled with garbage and planting some flowers or vegetables.Or better yet,join habijax and make a real difference fixing up some elderly persons home.Like the Ambassador(wich I managed for years and was vilified for pointing out how cost prohibitive restoration would be) this poor building is too far gone for rehab.8-9 million that was quoted earlier wouldnt begin to scratch the surface,it would cost that much just to stabilize.It really astonishes me that someone can be so BLIND  to reality of costs concerning restoring old buildings.No offense intended.

Thanks for your advice.  Im always surprised at how many people want other people to stop what they are doing and switch to doing something that they aren't doing themselves. ;)

The building is quite stable already and built to a much higher standard than the Ambassador.  It is not masonry veneer over steel , it is solid masonry.  The 9 million figure to restore it to a school was estimated by people with experience rehabilitating old masonry buildings.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: thelakelander on July 13, 2013, 11:43:46 AM
Isn't there a proposal to renovate the Ambassador?
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: PATSY/AUTUMN on July 14, 2013, 01:30:49 AM
Thank you Stephen and Dog Walker for your comments.  I am one of those poor misguided people who spend time doing something I sincerely believe in.  That would be ANNIE LYTLE.  If, as was implied, I am wasting my time, so be it.  I would have to say it is MY time and mine to waste any way I wish.  That also goes for my 11 year old granddaughter.  and for the wonderful people at PSOS for all their efforts on behalf of Springfield and especially the Drew House.  None of us consider our work unproductive. 
Naysayers?  Why waste a second of your time worrying  about our positive actions/or waste our time?
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: PATSY/AUTUMN on July 14, 2013, 03:18:22 AM
JohnCB, you are the one I am addressing as a naysayer.  Wanted to make that more clear. Stephen Dare and Dog Walker, always appreciate your support.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on July 14, 2013, 07:14:04 PM
While I appreciate you alls enthusiasm,I truly believe you're being completely unrealistic. I would suggest taking some of that admirable energy,and devote it to something more productive,like going in to poorer neighborhoods and cleaning empty lots piled with garbage and planting some flowers or vegetables.Or better yet,join habijax and make a real difference fixing up some elderly persons home.Like the Ambassador(wich I managed for years and was vilified for pointing out how cost prohibitive restoration would be) this poor building is too far gone for rehab.8-9 million that was quoted earlier wouldnt begin to scratch the surface,it would cost that much just to stabilize.It really astonishes me that someone can be so BLIND  to reality of costs concerning restoring old buildings.No offense intended.


 Your opinion is so noted. 


  We continue work at the School.


Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on July 14, 2013, 07:18:18 PM
While I appreciate you alls enthusiasm,I truly believe you're being completely unrealistic. I would suggest taking some of that admirable energy,and devote it to something more productive,like going in to poorer neighborhoods and cleaning empty lots piled with garbage and planting some flowers or vegetables.Or better yet,join habijax and make a real difference fixing up some elderly persons home.Like the Ambassador(wich I managed for years and was vilified for pointing out how cost prohibitive restoration would be) this poor building is too far gone for rehab.8-9 million that was quoted earlier wouldnt begin to scratch the surface,it would cost that much just to stabilize.It really astonishes me that someone can be so BLIND  to reality of costs concerning restoring old buildings.No offense intended.

Thanks for your advice.  Im always surprised at how many people want other people to stop what they are doing and switch to doing something that they aren't doing themselves. ;)

The building is quite stable already and built to a much higher standard than the Ambassador.  It is not masonry veneer over steel , it is solid masonry.  The 9 million figure to restore it to a school was estimated by people with experience rehabilitating old masonry buildings.

The 9 Million dollar figure was estimated by a Developer who never had any intent to refurbish the building.  They stated over and over and over they wanted it taken out.

At 96 years old, it is far more stable than some modern "structures"  that will never stand as long.

Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Xena1983 on October 23, 2013, 12:30:22 AM
Does any body have any more info on this place and what going on with it? I have always seen pictures online of the school been there once my self just wondering if its being clean up still. Would like to see updated picthures of it if any body has any thanks.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Noone on October 23, 2013, 06:41:51 AM
9 hours out from the CRA/DIA in the USA workshop meeting that is happening right now today at 3pm first floor city hall. This is an opportunity for anyone  to show up and get in line and get your project on the list. The big story was going to be if there would be anonymous ( behind the scenes) participation as to actually showing up. I believe this was discussed at a DIA Board meeting and not sure what the exact action was taken. One person during Public comment did talk about people going to jail. just sharing what was discussed.

This would be an opportunity for the super foundation to do something.

Planning a RICO paddle Downtown. Still an open contest on the new signage that is in our DIA zone that was never before Waterways. If anyone shares with all of us that love MJ where it is I'll treat you to Chopstick Charley's. I'm serious. A clue. It's near our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative. It is in our DIA zone.

My elected Dist. 4 representative is aware of the issue. Also have an email for a specific project and let's see if my elected legislative representative will be at this meeting today and formally advance a requested project to be included for this list that will guide Jacksonville for years to come. Ask my Dist. 4 rep about the FIND update. We are so LOST.

I'm All In.



Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: PATSY/AUTUMN on October 24, 2013, 08:25:05 PM
To Xena and anyone else who is interested in Annie Lytle:  The cleaning continues.  We work every weekend.  You can see photos on FaceBook "Save Public School #4 /Annie Lytle.  We invite you to join if you can.  We post photos after each work day to show our progress.  This Saturday (26th) should be a major accomplishment.  We are being joined by a cycling club who are volunteering for the one day.  We are very exited to see what is accomplished.  Thank you for asking!
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Noone on November 02, 2014, 07:14:42 AM
One year later. Where are we?
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: PATSY/AUTUMN on November 03, 2014, 12:23:37 AM
Noone, we are still working.  Tons of trash have been removed.  We are very proud of our work.  We often have cars drive past and honk their horns and give us a thumbs up.  JSO has been great!  You can see for yourself on our Facebook page:  Save Public School Number Four......   Photos from each Work Day are posted there. 
Despite those who continue to  have negative viewpoints, there is hope for her.  Anyone is welcome to come out and help.  Come out and help and see for yourself.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Dog Walker on November 03, 2014, 11:10:01 AM
Patsy is understating the amount of work that she and her dedicated volunteers have done.  They have moved tons of debris bucket by bucket.  They keep the grounds mowed and have removed dead trees.  The labor involved boggles the mind.

They have even cut up and removed the massive, fire damaged trusses that supported the auditorium roof.

They all deserve some sort of recognition from the City and the History Society.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on February 02, 2015, 01:05:31 AM
For anyone who is interested in following the cleanup of the Annie Lytle School and the School's grounds, and to see the progress from where it was several years ago, to now, please visit our website: www.savepublicschoolnumber4.com   This site was established by our Volunteer, Brett Nolan who did a tremendous job in creating it , and continues to do so with frequent updates.   Our Volunteer base continues to grow and the Annie Lytle Preservation Group is seeking to become a 501 C3  Non Profit. (Actually in motion now) .   

We are proud of our work and the positive message it sends to the community. We want to prepare this old landmark for a new use, and hope to acquire it so as to have some control over its destiny.

Personally it has been a long road but an enjoyable journey.  It is heart warming to watch a seed grow, so to speak..meaning watching a dedicated, intellignent hard-working team form.

 While the property/ownership/tax issues and staggering costs are all hurdles we have to meet, a team is forming. I sincerely believe no one will be able to dispute that our crew has removed a lot ( not all of the derelict  state of the Schools interior condition.. painting the exterior trim on the base all the way around the school, all the handrails , ledges, etc.  both side porticos, and Capital /Portico.  Replacing the Planter , right of front steps, destroyed by a truck hitting it.  Repairing the Capital where Archer Western's Crane smacked the right front of the capital and broke some of the concrete trim at the roof line.

Going into the interior  5 classrooms are completely cleaned out , all 4 stair wells, 1st story boys bathroom, one classroom ( which was amazingly still , fairly intact)  is going to be restored with light fixtures and everything. going into the front hall Admin offices are cleared and gutted..flooring and all .Removal of fire walls throughout the structure.  Most of this work has been done in the last 18 months with a crew that averages 8-15 people per session.  We are like family work hard and play hard. ...Update Pictures coming!! stay tuned.  Lord Willing , we will map out the way to put the lights back on in this Grand Old Lady. 
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: BIG CHEESE 723 on March 06, 2019, 10:58:58 PM
As  manager of ALPG (on hiatus at the moment) I would like to say that the building looks nothing like the photos David Gano took.  The building has been cleaned.  TONS of debris has been removed.  We were the first and ONLY  volunteer group to receive an award from the Jacksonville  Historical Preservation Group!  The yard is no longer a jungle.  JSO is now arresting trespassers.  (although those are very few these days)  Tagging is virtually nonexistent.  The interior has been 90% cleaned and graffiti on the interior is no more.  except for 2 rooms, the upstairs has been scraped down and painted.  The halls there have also been painted, but not scraped.  downstairs has been painted just to cover over the mess.  The new owners are bringing in experts for suggestions on re-purposing her.    Curious?  Check out my personal photos on Facebook.  "Photos By Big Cheese of Annie Lytle. 
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: vicupstate on March 07, 2019, 10:18:36 AM
I was wondering what was going on here, as there has been no news lately on this site. Glad to here it is still standing.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Downtown Osprey on March 07, 2019, 03:53:30 PM
Incredible. Hats off to you and your crew for bringing this back to life. It has so much potential!
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: itsfantastic1 on March 08, 2019, 08:49:27 AM
Has there been any thoughts about moving it from the site that's so close to the interstate? I realize it's extremely expensive to do that, but I'd be willing to donate as I'm afraid the next I10/I95 expansions may cause it to be lost.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Adam White on March 08, 2019, 09:52:05 AM
Has there been any thoughts about moving it from the site that's so close to the interstate? I realize it's extremely expensive to do that, but I'd be willing to donate as I'm afraid the next I10/I95 expansions may cause it to be lost.

I just want to make sure I understand - are you suggesting they move the entire school to a different site?
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 09, 2019, 05:52:12 PM
I just want to make sure I understand - are you suggesting they move the entire school to a different site?

(https://i.imgur.com/hJ4blDl.jpg)
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: acme54321 on March 10, 2019, 10:50:15 PM
Has there been any thoughts about moving it from the site that's so close to the interstate? I realize it's extremely expensive to do that, but I'd be willing to donate as I'm afraid the next I10/I95 expansions may cause it to be lost.

I just want to make sure I understand - are you suggesting they move the entire school to a different site?

Nah man, just turn the building around so it doesn't face the interstate.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: itsfantastic1 on March 11, 2019, 08:00:13 AM
I appreciate the jokes but if you think a structure built in one place is permanently stuck there, then boy; do I have some surprises for you.  The National Park Service recognizes relocation of historic buildings as the last or final option to save a building from demolition.

https://www.nps.gov/tps/how-to-preserve/preservedocs/Moving-Historic-Buildings.pdf (https://www.nps.gov/tps/how-to-preserve/preservedocs/Moving-Historic-Buildings.pdf)

I realize this is not cheap and may even not be recommended based on the condition of the school but if it's the difference between keeping and repurposing the school or losing it to an interstate expansion; I was just asking someone who is involved with it's preservation (Big Cheese) if there has been any discussion on the matter.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Adam White on March 11, 2019, 03:06:30 PM
I appreciate the jokes but if you think a structure built in one place is permanently stuck there, then boy; do I have some surprises for you.  The National Park Service recognizes relocation of historic buildings as the last or final option to save a building from demolition.

https://www.nps.gov/tps/how-to-preserve/preservedocs/Moving-Historic-Buildings.pdf (https://www.nps.gov/tps/how-to-preserve/preservedocs/Moving-Historic-Buildings.pdf)

I realize this is not cheap and may even not be recommended based on the condition of the school but if it's the difference between keeping and repurposing the school or losing it to an interstate expansion; I was just asking someone who is involved with it's preservation (Big Cheese) if there has been any discussion on the matter.

I understand it is possible to move buildings. I just cannot believe that was actually being suggested in this case.
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: BIG CHEESE 723 on March 24, 2019, 11:02:27 PM
Annie Lytle looks nothing like the photo posted here.  To see how it looks now, check out the photos on Facebook "Photos By Big Cheese of Annie Lytle"  See the difference for yourselves! 
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on April 23, 2019, 07:44:49 PM
Or you could follow the Annie Lytle Preservation Group Webpage.... www.savepublicschoolnumber4.com

As to moving it , Im obviously not an expert but its likely cost prohibitive..   I mentioned years ago replicating the facade of the front , on the back of the school.

Time will tell but i don't think its going anywhere or getting torn down.

 Anyone who goes in today can tell clearly that its cleaned out.   Nothing like it was a decade ago.  Nightly security ensures minimal entry and vandalism.


And for years we were told neither could be done  ;)
Title: Re: Annie Lytle Public School (Public School # 4)
Post by: Timkin on April 23, 2019, 07:47:40 PM
I appreciate the jokes but if you think a structure built in one place is permanently stuck there, then boy; do I have some surprises for you.  The National Park Service recognizes relocation of historic buildings as the last or final option to save a building from demolition.

https://www.nps.gov/tps/how-to-preserve/preservedocs/Moving-Historic-Buildings.pdf (https://www.nps.gov/tps/how-to-preserve/preservedocs/Moving-Historic-Buildings.pdf)



 It is not a bad idea.  I just think its likely cost prohibitive.   Id rather it was moved than torn down

I realize this is not cheap and may even not be recommended based on the condition of the school but if it's the difference between keeping and repurposing the school or losing it to an interstate expansion; I was just asking someone who is involved with it's preservation (Big Cheese) if there has been any discussion on the matter.