The Jaxson

Community => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure => Topic started by: Bridges on September 28, 2012, 07:49:01 AM

Title: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Bridges on September 28, 2012, 07:49:01 AM
Here we go.

www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/print-edition/2012/09/28/jacksonville-builders-seek-extension.html?ana=e_ph (http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/print-edition/2012/09/28/jacksonville-builders-seek-extension.html?ana=e_ph)

Quote
The new L.A. Fitness Inc. at Atlantic and Kernan boulevards wouldn’t have been built if the city hadn’t imposed a moratorium on construction fees, developer Toney Sleiman said.....

....“I really think it worked — I know it worked for me,” Sleiman said of the moratorium. “I would have never built the L.A. Fitness at Atlantic and Kernan if I didn’t have that waived, because the numbers didn’t work out on the deal for the rent they wanted to pay.”

Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: vicupstate on September 28, 2012, 08:13:14 AM
Is the 1/4 million figure that Sleiman quotes correct or is he padding it? 
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: tufsu1 on September 28, 2012, 08:17:43 AM
what is Toney's point....that the one LA Fitness wouldn't have been built?  Because I think there are more than 10 being built all over town at Sleiman properties.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Bridges on September 28, 2012, 08:30:07 AM
what is Toney's point....that the one LA Fitness wouldn't have been built?  Because I think there are more than 10 being built all over town at Sleiman properties.

That seems to be exactly his point.  But considering LA Fitness has been on a tear of opening up new stores over the past year, taking advantage of the downturn and opened anchor store locations, I'd say they'd go pretty much anywhere they feel there would be business.  They've been buying competitors and stores at a fast pace.

Building new stores in Hillsbourough http://www2.tbo.com/lifestyles/health-4-you/2012/jun/19/7/report-la-fitness-to-purchase-lifestyle-family-fit-ar-417832/ (http://www2.tbo.com/lifestyles/health-4-you/2012/jun/19/7/report-la-fitness-to-purchase-lifestyle-family-fit-ar-417832/)

LA Fitness plans from a year ago:  http://retailtrafficmag.com/management/siteoptimizer/la_seizes_moment_opportunity_06232011/ (http://retailtrafficmag.com/management/siteoptimizer/la_seizes_moment_opportunity_06232011/)
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on September 28, 2012, 08:51:04 AM
I can't read the article but I was interviewed for it a few days back.  LA Fitness, 7-11's, etc. expansion plans have nothing to do with Jacksonville charging or not charging a mobility fee, concurrency or whatever.  In fact, that LA Fitness deal was locked up before the moratorium even went into place. That shopping center (The Fountains) was also under development before the mobility plan was approved.  Switching from the old concurrency system to the mobility fee actually saved Sleiman over $600k.  Now he's simply pocketing the extra cash since this deal was based on there being a market for LA Fitness in this region.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/832631852_5W5iG-M.jpg)
The Fountains site plan

In addition, that particular project is a big suburban box with a huge surface parking lot in front of it.  The mobility fee's credit adjustment system is something that would have even further reduced the cost of this particular LA Fitness.  However, to trigger those credit adjustments, the site's design would need to be more multimodal friendly, which would reduce the amount of auto trips Sleiman's development would put on the surrounding infrastructure network, which is one of the major goals of the mobility plan/fee.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on September 28, 2012, 09:04:59 AM
Btw, here is the list of projects that applied for fee waivers during the moratorium:

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-VjcfkXJ/0/L/DOC001-L.jpg)

Also, here's some general information into how LA Fitness selects their sites and typical buildout costs...

Quote
Since LA Fitness is very focused on securing the right locations for its chain, Horner gives the impression that the company won’t quibble over rent when it finds great sites. Plus, since grocers and many of the big-box tenants that served as anchors or junior anchors in their heyday typically drove aggressive deals, when LA Fitness takes over their locations it’s almost a given that it will be paying higher rents, adds Kinsella.

The chain makes up for the difference by asking landlords to contribute a substantial amount toward its build-out costs. When taking over existing buildings, the clubs need to have swimming pools installed, and remove columns from common areas. Former grocery stores, in particular, present challenges because their buildings often can’t support the kind of energy-efficient HVAC systems that LA Fitness employs. As a result, it costs on average $700,000 to retrofit an existing retail location into a club. Ground-up construction can cost as much as $3 million.

Full article from Retail Traffic Magazine: http://retailtrafficmag.com/management/siteoptimizer/la_seizes_moment_opportunity_06232011/

Also, a retroffit of an existing retail location (think of all the empty retail boxes and strip malls we have....even on Atlantic!) would have resulted in no fee anyway.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Ocklawaha on September 28, 2012, 09:10:37 AM
Great work 'Bridges' and 'Lake' but I don't think our City Council, with the exception perhaps of a few stars, is smart enough to figure out they've been duped by Toney. Lake I wonder if your chart could show the old concurrency system costs side by side?

How anyone can think a slight reduction in fees and a small tweak of the parking lot plans can somehow add to their costs is beyond me. None of them seem to realize the QOL improvements that WILL HAPPEN with the mobility plan should put us on par with many of our peer cities.

Perhaps we can recruit the likes of Peyton, Delaney, Moran etc... to assist with a full court press? This time around we need to fill the chambers with protesters. 
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Bridges on September 28, 2012, 09:13:48 AM
Btw, here is the list of projects that applied for fee waivers during the moratorium:

How does that list compare with a normal year?  More applications?  Less?  Same as previous year? 
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: fsujax on September 28, 2012, 09:15:22 AM
you can best believe Tony has been working the council on this issue.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on September 28, 2012, 09:17:43 AM
He's working the mayor's office probably moreso than the council.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: CityLife on September 28, 2012, 09:22:52 AM
I'm holding the trump card....

SeaGrass Apartments, who had about a third of the total of all mobility fees waved ($603,525) did not even know about the mobility fee moratorium when they were going to permitting.

Suck on that Sleiman.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on September 28, 2012, 09:28:17 AM
Regarding this particular LA Fitness site, there are a few more things we've already given Sleiman to help him make a profit off his property.

1. In 2010, the City waived nearly $15 million in concurrency he owed for this project.

article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-04-06/story/megastore-gives-jacksonville-developer-city-more-time

2. That same year, taxpayers fully funded a $47 million overpass with Better Jacksonville Plan dollars at that intersection.

article: http://m.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-10-04/story/jta-opening-new-flyover-tuesday-atlantic-boulevard-over-kernan-boulevard

Over $50 million to help improve the marketability of this location and we're still asked to pay more?  Quite frankly, at this point, this project has been so heavily subsidized it will never return the amount of cash we've got sitting in it.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: dougskiles on September 28, 2012, 09:43:45 AM
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/COJ-Mobility-Plan-12-14-10/i-fMtkG8s/0/XL/Screen-Shot-2012-10-03-at-XL.png)
Ock-fix

That quote is from their press release about a year ago.  No where was it mentioned that they came to Jacksonville because of a Mobility Fee moratorium.  Granted, they may have gone to that particular site because of the moratorium.  With the moratorium, they probably would have gone to re-energize an existing shopping center nearby.

Which begs the question, why aren't the owners of declining shopping centers complaining about the devaluation of existing supply?

I wish I knew how to make this point more clearly to the writers of the Business Journal.  Ennis and I both provided detailed information about this issue to the writer of the article.  I haven't yet read the remainder of the story - perhaps there was more to it.  If anyone has access to it, please post it.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: cline on September 28, 2012, 09:53:38 AM
Great work 'Bridges' and 'Lake' but I don't think our City Council, with the exception perhaps of a few stars, is smart enough to figure out they've been duped by Toney.

Or they just don't care.  The Council is owned by the Sleiman's of this City, which unfortunately, is why they will probably extend the moratorium.  And if that happens, you can pretty much kiss any chance of it coming back goodbye.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: dougskiles on September 28, 2012, 09:57:39 AM
^That kind of defeatist attitude is why things like this keep happening.

Keep your chin up!  Fight the good fight, man!
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: cline on September 28, 2012, 10:04:30 AM
^I know I sound cynical as hell so I'm sorry for that.  It's just really disappointing that we have such a great plan that has been shelved due to the complaints of a few.  I applaud your efforts though, Doug.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: fieldafm on September 28, 2012, 10:04:38 AM
Bottom line, the mobility fee moratorium has simply put a little extra cash in the pocket of a few people... that were going to build their projects anyway.  It has failed to work in spurring additional development, meanwhile multi-family construction in areas managed by what's called a transportation management area which still charges a version of this fee has boomed.  All the while, the moratorium has placed an additional tax on the already overburdened general taxpayer at a time when our city can't even afford to mow the grass.

Mayor Brown, as someone who cares deeply about our city... please do not enact a tax increase on the general population so that a select few of politically-connected people can save some money.  That's what an extension of the moratorium represents. 
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: fsquid on September 28, 2012, 10:08:49 AM
I was reading the St. Augustine paper last week and the Superintendent of St. John's County Schools said that they wouldn't be building two new elementary schools without the mobility fees collected in St. John's County.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Bridges on September 28, 2012, 10:17:36 AM
Time table of Oct. 10th is fast approaching.  Assuming they are going to push it through quickly, do they have to vote on it next Tuesday or the following Tuesday?
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Tacachale on September 28, 2012, 11:24:53 AM
^I know I sound cynical as hell so I'm sorry for that.  It's just really disappointing that we have such a great plan that has been shelved due to the complaints of a few.  I applaud your efforts though, Doug.

No one despises cynicism and defeatism more than me, but I tend to agree with cline. Developers have always been very powerful in these parts, and right now our leadership is pretty weak.

This does not in any way, shape or form mean we it's not worth fighting, or that things will always be this way. It's absolutely worth the effort and the incremental positive change in the conversation that we're already seeing.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: dougskiles on September 28, 2012, 11:56:06 AM
The emphasis of the message needs to be on the positive aspects of the plan.  Yes, there are a few negative consequences to a few individuals in a few locations.  However, even those individuals will see a net positive by moving our city in a forward direction.

As I have studied the Mobility Plan a little more each day, I realize that what it really should be called is the "Vision Plan Implementation".  There isn't anything in the Mobility Plan that isn't a direct result of six (6) comprehensive Vision Studies performed from 2003 to 2010.  We often hear the criticism that our master plans are collecting dust on a shelf.  The reason is because we allow a very small minority to kill the implementation.

Vive La Vision Plans!
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on September 28, 2012, 01:22:11 PM
^Good call.  The Mobility Plan isn't anything new.  Its a method to actually implement several past vision/transportation plans and goals established by this community and approved by the council over the last decade in a fair manner.

Quote
Yes, there are a few negative consequences to a few individuals in a few locations.

It only becomes a negative when one attempts to propose a project that costs the taxpayer and City of Jacksonville more than it helps fiscally.  For those few, who find that their mobility fee ends up being higher than the old fair share fee, I'd suggest taking a look at your site plan and desired parcel for new development in general.  You can reduce your mobility fee costs by taking advantage of the mobility fee's credit adjustment system, by laying out your project in a manner that cuts down on auto trips.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Ocklawaha on September 28, 2012, 01:45:10 PM
I say we all go to their evil lair... hold 'em sideways and just go all gangsta on them!

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/ScreenShot2012-09-28at14100PM.png)


(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/ScreenShot2012-09-28at123203PM.png)


(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/ScreenShot2012-09-28at125306PM.png)


(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/ScreenShot2012-09-28at11645PM.png)


(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/ScreenShot2012-09-28at12415PM.png)
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: dougskiles on September 28, 2012, 01:54:41 PM
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2583sxe.jpg)
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Captain Zissou on September 28, 2012, 02:30:54 PM
If there is any area of town that is underserved in terms of retail, its downtown and the urban core neighborhoods.  The mobility plan puts the in town areas on equal footing with the 'burbs and essentially opens up a new and densly populated area to new development.  This development may not be in the form or layout that Toney is used to, but if he was smart he would embrace the mobility plan and capitalize on growth opportunities in the urban core before other developers do.  Like Simms has previously stated, if Sleiman moves quickly he can build out the downtown and urban core retail sector and create high barriers to entry for smaller developers.  His time would be better spent fighting for the mobility plan than against it.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Kay on September 28, 2012, 02:55:13 PM
Why not get a meeting with him Captain and try to convince him?
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Captain Zissou on September 28, 2012, 03:05:25 PM
Why not get a meeting with him Captain and try to convince him?

Easier said than done Kay, but that might be worth a shot.  Doug Skiles is becoming a subject matter expert, so maybe I could bring him along as well.  (I know you weren't trying to be helpful, but you and your 'causes' have taken enough beatings for one 24 hour period so I'll be nice and play along.)
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: fsujax on September 28, 2012, 03:08:14 PM
it would be a tough sell, but maybe his eyes could be opened to the potential.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: cline on September 28, 2012, 03:13:15 PM
Sleiman's too busy counting his money that he makes off of his awful strip malls to see the Mobility Plan as a long term visioning tool. 
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: simms3 on September 28, 2012, 03:40:01 PM
If Sleiman is so concerned about low rents being a factor in getting deals done without these fees, why doesn't he take the stance that developers literally everywhere else now take?  That is "make it more difficult for others to compete with me".  Whether that means fees, excessive zoning regulation, red tape, winning the lottery to become one of a city's few developers, $1M/SF land prices (usually driven up by other HIGH barriers to entry, not low), etc.

The reason developers outside of Sleiman, a few apartment builders riding the current wave, and some homebuilders,  aren't looking at Jacksonville is because they'll get killed in the first year.  Too cyclical, too much inventory to fill still, too probable that someone else will build a mirror image next door, no oversight, no protection, etc.

This is why "developer" in Jacksonville has come to mean something so vitriolic - people don't even realize that "developers" are often interesting hometown heroes elsewhere with their number one vice being their big egos to build the biggest and best things for their respective cities.

Granted it is true that in most places the suburbs offer the biggest yield for new development.  Making the switch is a difficult one.  The payoff is potentially a lot more, though.  I think developers in Jacksonville like Sleiman are worried that the city will never be able to figure out all the ingredients necessary to build inward instead of outward (i.e. the multitude of ingredients necessary to launch infill development, including but not limited to having the audience, which requires a whole other set of parameters the city doesn't have yet), and so any regulation forcing that inward development or restricting outward development becomes pointless in the grand scheme and ends up a money loser for those developers.  Again - no faith in city leadership and for good reason.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: John P on September 28, 2012, 03:45:48 PM
You will see a united front of civic organizations against extention. If everyone reading this sent an email to the city council and mayors office it would help. Private meetings are not the on;ly thing that matter. They are inflenced by public opinion too.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: simms3 on September 28, 2012, 03:50:37 PM
This just came through my email:

Quote
So, you wanna build a commercial building? Have you priced your labor? Found your bricks? Estimated your other materials? Better hurry: Many development pros are worried about inflation.

A number of our execs raised the red flag on rising construction costs during Bisnow's third annual Atlanta Multifamily Summit last week. JLB Partners’ Hudson Hooks (above) started that ball rolling, saying “inflation was creeping” into materials costs. AMLI Residential’s Fred Schreiber says his firm is seeing a 10% hike in construction costs on its apartment developments. And at our recent San Antonio State of the Market Summit, Embrey Partners EVP of development Robert Hunt also rang the warning bells with an abnormally large spike in shell construction costs—15% in the past year. Drywall prices also have jumped 25% this year, he adds. All in, costs are outpacing rent growth and run a real risk of making planned projects unworkable.

But it’s more than just raw material costs. Many regions are reporting labor shortages, where subcontractors must lure workers back from other states to staff development projects, particularly among wood framers, Fred says. (You ever try transporting a wood framer across state lines? It's a mess. Lots of splinters.) “It’s even difficult to select brick you like that’s within 500 miles of your project,” Hudson says. Click the above video to hear Crescent Resources’ Benjamin Collins talk about how sub cost increases could threaten the pipeline of new development.

Just a hunch that if replacement costs are rising faster than market rent growth (and it sounds like they are), the demand for new development will fall anyways.  And if the rent growth is not there, how is their room to increase the basis in your land (i.e. urban development deal) when your hard costs are rising?  Things to consider.  You start a podium apartment deal in say Brooklyn where you underwrite net effective rents of $1.35 upon stabilization, and all of a sudden throughout the 18 months the thing is UC your hard costs rise 10%.  Does that mean you can now underwrite $1.49?  Doubtful as I'm sure while $1.35 is your "aggressive base case", I'm also sure $1.49 wasn't even on your radar of possibility for years to come.  Now you're screwed (but I would guess suburban development deals conceal some of this risk to a degree).
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: jcjohnpaint on September 28, 2012, 05:06:01 PM
If there is any area of town that is underserved in terms of retail, its downtown and the urban core neighborhoods.  The mobility plan puts the in town areas on equal footing with the 'burbs and essentially opens up a new and densly populated area to new development.  This development may not be in the form or layout that Toney is used to, but if he was smart he would embrace the mobility plan and capitalize on growth opportunities in the urban core before other developers do.  Like Simms has previously stated, if Sleiman moves quickly he can build out the downtown and urban core retail sector and create high barriers to entry for smaller developers.  His time would be better spent fighting for the mobility plan than against it.

Because people like this cannot see past their own political agenda. 
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: sheclown on October 02, 2012, 05:06:55 AM
MJ's Doug Skiles made a great presentation to the Urban Core CPAC last night.  The UC CPAC voted to recommend that the moratorium not be extended.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on October 02, 2012, 06:25:32 AM
Sweet!
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: jcjohnpaint on October 02, 2012, 09:05:46 AM
Well Done!  ;D
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Tacachale on October 02, 2012, 09:13:39 AM
Awesome. Good work, Doug!
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Gators312 on October 02, 2012, 09:28:14 AM
MJ's Doug Skiles made a great presentation to the Urban Core CPAC last night.  The UC CPAC voted to recommend that the moratorium not be extended.

Can we start a collection on MJ to send Doug out to lobby the entire CoJ ?
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: JeffreyS on October 02, 2012, 10:14:06 AM
^I'm in. Can we get some pledges from council members not to go along with this garbage.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Ocklawaha on October 02, 2012, 10:57:07 AM
It's very nice that Doug was able to convince the board to end the moratorium. We've won a great battle, but the war rages on, so "keep fighting the good fight."

(Nothing like quoting the Apostle Paul, one of the worlds early rail passengers, for encouragement).
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on October 04, 2012, 07:29:36 PM
This was just emailed to me:

Quote
Tonight at the BPAC meeting we learned from Councilman Redman that a bill to extend the mobility plan moratorium has been filed. He did not discuss it any further with us.

The BPAC passed a resolution to support full implementation of the mobility plan including the fee and giving reasons regarding the implementation of bicycle and pedestrian facilities in Jacksonville. Attendance at the October 9 meeting is important to speak for the sunset of the moratorium and letters of support from organizations showing how the mobility plan will help them are also important.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: simms3 on October 04, 2012, 10:21:18 PM
Sent the following email to CC members (had to slip an "RE:" in subject line to spur curiosity, hahaha):

Quote
RE: Saving One of Jacksonville's Most Competitive Edges


Mr. xxxx,

Hope you and your wife and kids are doing well!  Glad for your decision on the one version of the human rights bill (real setback for the city that was, worsening the negative perception that already exists).  Here is what I have sent your fellow city council members, speaking to an issue near and dear to my heart.  I am honored to work for one of the most reputable and one of the largest private equity real estate shops in the world and through my job I get to travel to other cities and witness their amazing transitions.  It makes me sad that Jacksonville has not joined the nearly nationwide fray of re-establishing real estate as a tool for economic development in the 21st century (2012 meet 1920, 1920 meet 2012).

QUOTE:
I am writing you as a former resident of Jacksonville to consider passing legislation that would ultimately prevent the needless destruction of significant buildings in Jacksonville and to sunset the Mobility Fee Moratorium in a related attempt to spur economic development in the heart of the city. How I or your or anybody else defines significant is a matter we could all debate until we are blue, but one thing remains true: Jacksonville is in danger of losing something very important that many other cities in the state of FL have never even had the opportunity of benefiting from. That is a rich tie to the past.

Speaking to a macro view of real estate nowadays, many development firms are migrating to older, crowded, dirty coastal gateway markets. There are many reasons for this, but perhaps the two most important reasons are for the educated and skilled workforce these “cool” cities seem to attract and for the impossibly high barriers to entry these dense markets offer, allowing for dividend like returns and safety from oversupply and treacherous cycles.

This is relevant to Jacksonville, being a somewhat older coastal port city very unique to the state of FL. That uniqueness is rapidly deteriorating. As evidenced by the sudden explosion of the Park and King district, the educated professionals in Jacksonville (and everywhere else) desire vibrant walkable communities with culture, CHARACTER, ties to the past, and convenience. Jacksonville once looked like a smaller San Francisco or smaller Boston. Now sadly, most of what was once a dense, vibrant city center is instead a moonscape surrounded by a very large overbuilt mess of strip centers and subdivisions with no end in sight to a lack of proper planning and a lack of adequate transportation to serve such unsustainable growth/development.

Every city has suburbs, but the suburbs are not what make a city attractive to the young, skilled, college-educated workers firms need in their ranks. Emphasizing new suburban development is a route contradictory to the route Jacksonville's most successful peers are taking. One need only to spend a few hours in Charlotte, Nashville, Austin, Indianapolis, Oklahoma City or Salt Lake City to see that development patterns of transit-served infill and adaptive re-use are creating a sense of place that in turn is creating a perpetual cycle of attracting the best and brightest young people and the firms that employ them.

I urge you to find a way to work with the rest of Council, the various development agencies and city planners, the Mayor, and the people of Jacksonville to allow the Mobility Fee Moratorium to sunset and to enact a citywide program to prevent needless destruction by incentivizing the private sector to create new uses for old buildings.


Warm regards,
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: dougskiles on October 05, 2012, 05:57:20 AM
Should make for an entertaining evening.

I also heard that the preservation of the Bostwick Building will be up for discussion at the October 9th meeting.

Even more reason for those with a heart for Jacksonville to make your opinions known.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Bridges on October 05, 2012, 07:56:44 AM
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2583sxe.jpg)

What are those 6 vision plans?   I can't expand the picture.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on October 05, 2012, 08:00:10 AM
Here you go:

http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/community-planning-division/plans-and-studies/vision-plans.aspx

You can use that link to access the six Vision Plan documents in the graphic.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Bridges on October 05, 2012, 09:12:54 AM
Here you go:

http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/community-planning-division/plans-and-studies/vision-plans.aspx

You can use that link to access the six Vision Plan documents in the graphic.

Thanks Lake.  Emails have been sent.  I'll be there next Tuesday.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Debbie Thompson on October 08, 2012, 12:12:41 PM
My email sent to all council members...here's the list.  Hope to make the meeting, although I'll be late due to work hours.

Clay@coj.net
WBishop@coj.net
RClark@coj.net
Redman@coj.net
LBoyer@coj.net
MattS@coj.net
Gaffney@coj.net
EDLee@coj.net
WAJones@coj.net
RBrown@coj.net
Holt@coj.net
doylec@coj.net
Gulliford@coj.net
JimLove@coj.net
KimDaniels@coj.net
JRC@coj.net
Joost@coj.net
GAnderson@coj.net
RLumb@coj.net
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: dougskiles on October 08, 2012, 01:47:35 PM
Please keep it up!  The emails and phone calls are working.  I have had several conversations with council members telling me that the message is coming across.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: jcjohnpaint on October 08, 2012, 02:26:21 PM
I just sent my second round of emails.  I have not heard anything yet from any of our leaders.  I hope this is not a bad thing. 
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: CityLife on October 08, 2012, 02:34:39 PM
I just sent my second round of emails.  I have not heard anything yet from any of our leaders.  I hope this is not a bad thing.

Probably a good thing. They may be getting flooded with emails and calls and aren't able to respond to all of them. Heck they are probably getting so many emails that they are just skimming them to see whether people support or not and whether or not any key points are made.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: JeffreyS on October 08, 2012, 03:13:39 PM
My current emails are sent.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Debbie Thompson on October 08, 2012, 03:33:17 PM
State your support of the Mobility Fee in the beginning of your email, and then keep it brief explaining why so your email gets read in full.  The people are speaking.  Keep it up. 
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Charles Hunter on October 08, 2012, 09:08:47 PM
The Arlington-Beaches CPAC voted tonight to endorse letting the Mobility Fee Moratorium expire.  They will be sending a letter to all Council Members tomorrow in case an extension bill comes up as an "emergency" tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: dougskiles on October 09, 2012, 04:52:10 AM
That is huge!
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: sheclown on October 09, 2012, 06:36:31 AM
mine sent
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Jumpinjack on October 09, 2012, 12:18:29 PM
Northeast Florida Sierra Club letter sent to all CC members
Members will be attending tonight
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on October 09, 2012, 12:23:47 PM
mine sent.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Ocklawaha on October 09, 2012, 01:57:37 PM
Yup, me too, all sent.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: fsujax on October 09, 2012, 02:25:04 PM
Just sent m email to all them.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Captain Zissou on October 09, 2012, 03:43:21 PM
Sent.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Tacachale on October 09, 2012, 04:01:17 PM
Has anyone heard anything back?
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: fsujax on October 09, 2012, 04:02:41 PM
i have heard nothing.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: fsquid on October 09, 2012, 04:41:51 PM
the fix is in
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on October 09, 2012, 04:56:11 PM
If something is going down, I wouldn't expect to hear it before the meeting.  I'm headed downtown now.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: fsujax on October 09, 2012, 07:16:31 PM
I did get a response from Crescimbini.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Bridges on October 09, 2012, 07:34:06 PM
Where to now with the mobility fee?  I heard that it doesn't actually expire until the 19th?  Is that right?
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: dougskiles on October 09, 2012, 07:47:58 PM
After October 19th the city will no longer accept applications for a fee waiver.

The next City Council meeting is October 23rd, and that would be the next chance to file a bill for another moratorium.  The chances of this going through as an emergency are very slim, so it would go through the committees.  Most likely Rules (chaired by Clay Yarborough), Finance (chaired by John Crescimbeni), LUZ (chaired by Lori Boyer) and Transportation, Energy & Utilities (chaired by Greg Anderson).

These committee meetings will each provide an opportunity for public comment, in addition to the individual meetings, letters and emails that can occur during that time period.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: fsujax on October 09, 2012, 08:04:36 PM
Great job tonight Doug.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: sheclown on October 09, 2012, 08:14:05 PM
Great job tonight Doug.

yes!!  And good idea reaching out to the CPACs.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: dougskiles on October 09, 2012, 08:31:16 PM
^Thanks.

This entire process has been a group effort.  The only CPAC I spoke to was Urban Core.  SE CPAC has yet to receive a presentation and I am hoping one of us will get a chance to talk to them about it this month.  Same goes for NW CPAC and NE CPAC.

Even if the 2nd moratorium bill isn't filed, there needs to be more public education about the Mobility Plan.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Charles Hunter on October 09, 2012, 09:28:23 PM
2 of them meet this week:
North -  Second Wednesday of the month (Tomorrow) at 4 p.m. Florida State College at Jacksonville, North Campus, 4501 Capper Road, Building C Auditorium. 
Contact: Mary Beth Ridderman, (904) 255-8260

Northwest - Meetings: Second Thursday of each month at 6 p.m. (this Thursday)
Location: Legends Center, Community Room, 5130 Soutel Drive, Jacksonville, FL 32208.
Contact: Marilyn Fenton-Harmer at 255-8236 or Mfharmer@coj.net 


Southeast doesn't meet until the Fourth Monday of the month (the 22nd) at 6:30 p.m. at St. Luke's Hospital, 4201 Belfort Road, Main Hospital, Auditorium C, Jacksonville, Fl. 32216
Contact: Rosemary Wesolowski, (904) 255-8261
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: PeeJayEss on October 18, 2012, 08:46:33 AM
So this baby is supposed to sunset today...or tomorrow?
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Captain Zissou on October 18, 2012, 08:57:35 AM
Based on what Doug said, it sounds like the opposition still has until tomorrow to file for an extension of the moratorium.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Debbie Thompson on October 18, 2012, 08:59:43 AM
Want to bet?  It will be filed at 4:59 on Friday, and the City Council will take it up on Tuesday, 2 business days later. 
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Dog Walker on October 18, 2012, 09:27:28 AM
Want to bet?  It will be filed at 4:59 on Friday, and the City Council will take it up on Tuesday, 2 business days later. 

Get your torches and pitchforks ready!  If this happens it will be introduced by one of the term limited councilmen.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: dougskiles on October 18, 2012, 11:32:13 AM
I haven't spoken to a single council member who is in favor of a bill going through as an emergency measure.  They all feel that anything proposed would need to go through the committee process.  So we are looking at 2 to 3 weeks of hearings.

The moratorium ends on Friday, October 19, 2012.  That means on Monday, October 22, 2012, any application submitted for a Mobility Fee calculation will be subject to payment of the fee.

There will be NO extension of the current moratorium.  Any bill that is filed would be for a NEW moratorium.

Those who want to advocate for the Mobility Plan and the Fee, should continue to communicate with their council members.  However, remember that there is also a danger of becoming background noise.  It is better to have a few meaningful conversations than to shotgun them with daily blasts.

If anyone feels inclined to speak at the October 23rd City Council meeting, by all means do so (I would never suggest that anyone not exercise their civil liberties).  I believe a strong message was sent at the last meeting and plan to attend this next one just in case there is discussion (although highly unlikely).  However, I don't plan on speaking at the meeting if nothing is filed.

If a bill is filed, there will be plenty of opportunity to speak.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Ocklawaha on October 18, 2012, 11:49:08 AM
I planning to check in too Doug, I'll bring the tar if you can bring the feathers!
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: dougskiles on October 18, 2012, 01:33:07 PM
For the record, I have no intention of tarring or feathering anyone...  I may bore them with endless facts and figures until they wish they were being tarred and feathered.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Tacachale on October 18, 2012, 01:54:05 PM
Doug, you're giving Ron Chamblin some serious competition for who I want to be when I grow up.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on October 18, 2012, 06:07:08 PM
Jacksonville's moratorium on mobility fees for new construction ends Friday

Quote
Jacksonville’s one-year freeze on collecting “mobility fees” will expire Friday, ending a moratorium that has waived about $3.3 million in transportation fees for all kinds of new construction.
Some developers want the city to extend the moratorium, arguing the ability to waive the fee has been a make-or-break proposition for breaking ground on projects.
“It’s jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs,” said shopping center developer Toney Sleiman. “They need to get their heads out of the sand.”
But a host of neighborhood groups turned out at the Oct. 9 City Council meeting and urged the city to let the moratorium “die a peaceful death” in the words of one speaker. They said the city can use the money for needed transportation projects, the fees don’t halt projects that have a market demand, and the fees encourage development in existing neighborhoods.

full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-10-18/story/jacksonvilles-moratorium-mobility-fees-new-construction-ends-friday
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on October 18, 2012, 06:19:36 PM
Quote
But Trey Spivey, real estate manager of RaceTrac Petroleum, said moratoriums on development fees make a difference in tipping the scales for construction of new convenience stores in different parts of Florida.

“We’re really focused a lot of our resources on jurisdictions where we could get the most bang for our buck,” he said.

What RaceTrac typically puts up is exactly the type of development that needs to be discouraged from their current configuration.  The point of the mobility fee and plan is to encourage development patterns that decrease automobile trips, and thus, decrease the amount of subsidies the city pays in expanding and maintaining the infrastructure needed to support it.  They should take a page out of 7-Eleven's book with the design of the State & Main station.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: dougskiles on October 18, 2012, 06:45:23 PM
The great irony of seeing Racetrac quoted is that they pulled one building permit during the moratorium period.  And it was a project that didn't require a fee waiver, because it wouldn't have required a mobility fee.  It was a redevelopment of an existing site on Beach Boulevard.

So while we are expected to believe that fee moratoriums are encouraging new development, we are not seeing the evidence.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: simms3 on October 18, 2012, 07:05:00 PM
Quote
But Trey Spivey, real estate manager of RaceTrac Petroleum, said moratoriums on development fees make a difference in tipping the scales for construction of new convenience stores in different parts of Florida.

“We’re really focused a lot of our resources on jurisdictions where we could get the most bang for our buck,” he said.

What RaceTrac typically puts up is exactly the type of development that needs to be discouraged from their current configuration.  The point of the mobility fee and plan is to encourage development patterns that decrease automobile trips, and thus, decrease the amount of subsidies the city pays in expanding and maintaining the infrastructure needed to support it.  They should take a page out of 7-Eleven's book with the design of the State & Main station.

Ha I know a little bit about RaceTrac real estate myself.  Here is how their whole site selection works:

1) Is it one of our markets? (Jacksonville recently is, but Tampa is their big FL market...I don't think they like doing new markets and last I heard they were only focused on their current markets)

2) Finger in the wind - does the site feel right?

- Is there a high capacity road
- Is there ongoing development or at least massive entitlements in place for new development
- What are traffic patterns and projected traffic volume once the new developments kick off
- Is there a preferred corner available that fits these patterns, and can it fit a 20 pump station with multiple ingress/egress points and a large convenience store
- Is it a mostly greenfield area (as opposed to infill)
- What's the current competition and what are future gas station barriers to entry


No fancy proformas, just the ability to target future growth and thus future demand and capture market share early before their big competitors (QuickTrips, Kangaroo, etc) arrive on the scene.  It's a big who cares if in-place fees discourage future RaceTracs from being built since the whole business model is to serve fast-growth sprawl.  The two go hand in hand, so if there is not going to be any more fast-growth sprawl, then there likely won't be any more RaceTracs.

Let's hope Jacksonville city leaders are keen on attracting developers (and companies with real estate arms) who are trying to meet in-place demand and serve markets that already warrant them or where they see potential to "improve" an existing submarket with a development.  Let's not worry about the major homebuilders, the RaceTracs, the Semblers of the shopping center world, etc who are all targeting easy, cheap markets where they can come in and stand ready for when the sprawl brawl starts.  Great if they come even with fees, not great if they are the only ones coming to town because the in-place core market sucks and the only potential is in the future with new periphery communities.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: simms3 on October 18, 2012, 07:22:27 PM
Here is an example of a developer Jax should try to attract with in-place dynamics and fundamentals if the firm ever raises another opportunity fund (as opposed to cowtowing to keep the sprawl-dependent firms around like Sleiman, RaceTrac, Pulte, Richmond American Homes, etc).

Came across my email just then:

Quote
Jamestown's New Colony: 799 Market

We'll see you at Bisnow's Multifamily Summit. Our all-star panel will break down current trends, capital markets and investment activity, and the effect of new requirements in sustainability and innovation on development. Tues, October 30 at the St. Regis.

Jamestown continues to settle the West Coast, with the Atlanta-based investment and management firm’s latest acquisition: 799 Market St. The Class-A creative office and retail building contains 143k SF at the intersection of Union Square and SoMA.
 
(http://www.bisnow.com/archives/sanfranre/2012/Q4/images/MICHAELPHILLIPSJAMESTOWNINOFFICE.jpg)

COO Michael Phillips tells us the company is looking to expand its Bay Area portfolio. (It also owns the neighboring 22 Fourth St and 801 Market buildings, as well as a 594k SF shopping center in Alameda.) He says Jamestown focuses on 24-hour gateway cities with barriers to entry, and “always places location first.” Case in point, 799 Market is located at one of the city’s most heavily trafficked pedestrian intersections. Michael says the building’s retail component will benefit long term from the continued strengthening of the Union Square district “and its movement southwards toward Market Street.” (Though seismically bolting the foundation may help stop some of that movement.)

(http://www.bisnow.com/archives/sanfranre/2012/Q4/images/799Market.jpg)

The building’s office and retail space together is 89% leased. The 55k SF of retail, comprising three floors plus the basement, is fully leased to Ross Dress For Less. The flagship store, one of the highest performers in the chain, has seven years left on its lease with extension options available. The building has five office floors, of which the top level is vacant. Michael says planned lobby upgrades will both reflect and attract the types of creative tenants that are prevalent in San Francisco. “We also plan to add bicycle access.” The building boasts creative office features such as high ceilings and open floor plans with large windows on three sides. The Powell Street BART/Muni Station is adjacent.

(http://www.bisnow.com/archives/sanfranre/2012/Q4/images/MICHAELPHILLIPSJAMESTOWN1.jpg)

Michael’s so fast with texting, his hands have become permanently blurred. Jamestown bought the building from a partnership between Urban Realty and Commonfund. The seller was repped by Eastdil, which also helped Jamestown secure financing. According to Michael, creative office buildings are nothing new for Jamestown, as evidenced by its investments in New York’s Chelsea Market and 111 Eighth Ave (the Google building). “Open and dynamic work environments” will remain an office sector trend for years to come.


Fees and taxes come with the territory of investing in the safest and most secure markets in the country.  Jamestown and other top tier developers that operate nationally and run with stellar reputations are not concerned whether fees will mean less subdivisions to feed their newest Safeway center or suburban "lifestyle center".  The fees and taxes are totally worth it if they can profit and make a return for investors based on their own ability and current demand, not dependent on future growth alone.  It's for this reason JT's top markets are NYC, SF, DC and Boston, all of which are the most expensive markets to do business in and invest in.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Charles Hunter on October 18, 2012, 08:43:02 PM
I sincerely hope that enough council members favor letting a potential reinstatement of the Moratorium go through the normal process (about 6 weeks).  I believe it takes one-third to stop and emergency bill - is that 6 of the 19?  But there's nothing to stop a member from introducing such a bill as an emergency next Tuesday night.  And, given the herd mentality and developer-love among the council, it could easily happen next Tuesday.  After the first public comment period, possibly without comment against the moratorium; and by the time the 2nd comment period  comes around, it will be too late.
Yes, I am cynical about this Council.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Debbie Thompson on October 18, 2012, 10:28:59 PM
That does make sense in a way, Charles.  Doug says it won't happen, but I'm not quite so trusting. But then, I'm older than he is and maybe more cynical.  In keeping with Doug's idea, maybe as many of us as possible show up on Tuesday.  We fill out speaker cards saying we are for the mobility fee and against any waiver of it, but say we don't need to speak.  That way, we make our point, and the cards will be read aloud, without dragging out the meeting.  My vote would be that Doug speak for us, since he has done so much research on it, make all our points, and then have him ask for a show of hands for how many in the room agree with him and are here to support the mobility fee, and against any extension of the moratorium.

What do you guys think?  Doug, want to be the mouthpiece? 
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: spuwho on October 18, 2012, 11:16:06 PM
Quote
But Trey Spivey, real estate manager of RaceTrac Petroleum, said moratoriums on development fees make a difference in tipping the scales for construction of new convenience stores in different parts of Florida.

“We’re really focused a lot of our resources on jurisdictions where we could get the most bang for our buck,” he said.

What RaceTrac typically puts up is exactly the type of development that needs to be discouraged from their current configuration.  The point of the mobility fee and plan is to encourage development patterns that decrease automobile trips, and thus, decrease the amount of subsidies the city pays in expanding and maintaining the infrastructure needed to support it.  They should take a page out of 7-Eleven's book with the design of the State & Main station.

The reconstruction of the RaceTrac at Atlantic and the Hart Bridge Expwy (across from Episcopal) was actually well done with dark red brick and more modern looking pump stations. They have a Hess on the other side that still looks like Hess circa 1983. That area around St Nicholas is definitely a urban infill space.  So it appears they can use some thought in station design.

On the Mobility Fee, I have seen more political end runs in my time, so there is no telling what might "appear" on the docket at CC. Our Congress even voted once to extend a day so that their legislation passed on the correct date and didn't expire. It was the first time in several million years an official day lasted 27.5 hours.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: dougskiles on October 19, 2012, 05:34:19 AM
That does make sense in a way, Charles.  Doug says it won't happen, but I'm not quite so trusting. But then, I'm older than he is and maybe more cynical.  In keeping with Doug's idea, maybe as many of us as possible show up on Tuesday.  We fill out speaker cards saying we are for the mobility fee and against any waiver of it, but say we don't need to speak.  That way, we make our point, and the cards will be read aloud, without dragging out the meeting.  My vote would be that Doug speak for us, since he has done so much research on it, make all our points, and then have him ask for a show of hands for how many in the room agree with him and are here to support the mobility fee, and against any extension of the moratorium.

What do you guys think?  Doug, want to be the mouthpiece?

I will certainly be there.  And will have a speaker's card filled out and ready to turn in if a bill is filed from the floor.  However, I really don't think that someone is going to try for an emergency, much less do I believe the City Council would vote to consider it as an emergency.  I trust that the City Council President will make sure we have an opportunity to express our view.

When the lobbyist for the homebuilders is still on the fence about a moratorium, it tells me that there is really only one person behind the attempt for another one.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on October 19, 2012, 06:14:53 AM
Quote
But Trey Spivey, real estate manager of RaceTrac Petroleum, said moratoriums on development fees make a difference in tipping the scales for construction of new convenience stores in different parts of Florida.

“We’re really focused a lot of our resources on jurisdictions where we could get the most bang for our buck,” he said.

What RaceTrac typically puts up is exactly the type of development that needs to be discouraged from their current configuration.  The point of the mobility fee and plan is to encourage development patterns that decrease automobile trips, and thus, decrease the amount of subsidies the city pays in expanding and maintaining the infrastructure needed to support it.  They should take a page out of 7-Eleven's book with the design of the State & Main station.

The reconstruction of the RaceTrac at Atlantic and the Hart Bridge Expwy (across from Episcopal) was actually well done with dark red brick and more modern looking pump stations. They have a Hess on the other side that still looks like Hess circa 1983. That area around St Nicholas is definitely a urban infill space.  So it appears they can use some thought in station design.

The mobility fee deals with mobility, so using red brick and more modern looking pump stations would not be a factor in reducing the fee.  I'm not sure when that site opened (I think it opened before the moratorium started), but it's fee would have been lower than building new on a site that had never been developed.  Under the mobility fee program, it would have received credits for reuse of an existing gas station site and for nearby existing density. 

(http://www.rochestersubway.com/images/photos/milwaukee_new_urban_gas_station.jpg)
http://www.rochestersubway.com/topics/2009/05/gas_station_urban_design_challenge/

If the building were placed up against the street edge and a bus stop or bike facility included, instead of a gas apron, they would have been eligible for the full percentage of bike/ped/transit credits as well.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Bill Hoff on October 19, 2012, 07:14:03 AM
I met a woman from OKC last night involved in grassroots politics and civic advocacy. The topic of our 2030 Mobility Plan cane up, and she was very impressed by it. She plans to research it and introduce an equivalent to local leaders in OKC.

Her house is pictured in MJ's recent OKC pictorial too, by happy accident. : )
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Jumpinjack on October 19, 2012, 08:15:39 AM
That does make sense in a way, Charles.  Doug says it won't happen, but I'm not quite so trusting. But then, I'm older than he is and maybe more cynical.  In keeping with Doug's idea, maybe as many of us as possible show up on Tuesday.  We fill out speaker cards saying we are for the mobility fee and against any waiver of it, but say we don't need to speak.  That way, we make our point, and the cards will be read aloud, without dragging out the meeting.  My vote would be that Doug speak for us, since he has done so much research on it, make all our points, and then have him ask for a show of hands for how many in the room agree with him and are here to support the mobility fee, and against any extension of the moratorium.

What do you guys think?  Doug, want to be the mouthpiece? 

Good idea, Debbie. We will be there too.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: dougskiles on January 25, 2013, 03:44:01 PM
I've heard that a bill may be filed soon seeking a new mobility fee moratorium, and that the sponsor would be Councilman Richard Clark.

It will be interesting to hear the argument for a moratorium considering that the economy has shown definite signs of improvement, particularly in the land development industry.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: JeffreyS on January 25, 2013, 03:50:53 PM
Pitchforks and Torches ready.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Ocklawaha on January 25, 2013, 04:05:17 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of tar and feathers.

I'm going to suggest a riot if we have another council consideration of this insane policy.  The city is not mowing right-of-ways and turning off streetlights, but we are apparently so progressive that we can't use the improvements that will be afforded in the Mobility Plan.

We need to put the council on notice that any of them supporting another moratorium will be fired at the next election.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: fieldafm on January 25, 2013, 04:20:36 PM
Ah yes, the same Richard Clark that wanted to move to St Johns County to run for the Congressional seat Ron DeSantis eventually won... and who amassed more campaign contributions from builders and developers than any City Council rep... well, ever.

Considering he misses about 40% of Council meetings, perhaps he simply did not see a room jam packed full of people who opposed a bill to extend the moratorium... that was never even introduced.

Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Bridges on January 25, 2013, 05:57:18 PM
Oh boy.  Thanks for the update Doug.  We're ready anytime, just keep us updated.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Tacachale on January 25, 2013, 06:24:40 PM
Jaxons, assemble!
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: jcjohnpaint on January 25, 2013, 07:02:07 PM
I'll be there.  Should I bring the tar?
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: JeffreyS on January 25, 2013, 07:04:22 PM
 >:( On Doug's signal unleash Hell. >:(
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: L.P. Hovercraft on January 25, 2013, 07:17:07 PM
Richard Clark--Jacksonville's own local contribution to a long line of hard core, straight shootin' Dicks: Nixon, Cheney, Armey, Scott, Mourdock, et al.

You make us proud bro!
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Ocklawaha on January 25, 2013, 10:53:46 PM
These guys have REALLY pissed me off if they pull this stunt. My Ozark daddy would have said, "Mad enough to go bear huntin' with a switch!"
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: sheclown on January 26, 2013, 12:43:26 PM
Thanks Doug.  Let us know.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: urbaknight on January 26, 2013, 12:53:36 PM
Can't say I'm surprised that this came up again. I am surprised it took this long. Why don't these idiots just develop in the urban core where the fee doesn't exist?

And since the moratorium waiver came up again so soon, why didn't the anti discrimination bill resurface again as well, as any other bill that truly "takes the city to the next level?"
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on January 26, 2013, 01:26:27 PM
Some form of the fee exists every where in town (except for downtown but these guys aren't interested in DT).  However, you can cut the fee down completely or significantly by developing projects on sites where there's higher density, redevelopment sites, making them mixed-use, etc.  You can also reduce the fee by making your projects multimodal friendly instead of having your site plan totally dominated by auto accommodation at the expense of pedestrians and cyclist.  These guys just don't want to cover the cost of the negatives associated with their projects if someone is there to make the taxpayers pick up the tab.  It's really as simple as that.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: jcjohnpaint on January 26, 2013, 03:50:13 PM
You would think a republican would know better ::)
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: spuwho on January 26, 2013, 05:40:48 PM
Every developer who has a marginal plan to develop on the outer rim will make an attempt to get the mobility fee waived. Some may not want to deal with it, others will think its a waste of their time to design/build to it.

The key thing is that Council just has to stick to their guns on a few votes (there will be more than one) and the developers will finally fall in line. Some developers regionally may need some education on the value of mobility fees.

But be warned, if the council shows anymore wavering, then it will open the gates for more developers to twist arms and pretty soon the fee will become worthless.

Public will has to be asserted to make sure the Council responds appropriately.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Kiva on February 21, 2013, 08:24:51 PM
The "surprise" result from the JAX 2025 survey is that most people in Jacksonville want a vibrant downtown. The mobility fee encourages this. What is the problem with the city council? (Oh, apart from the donations from developers in the outer fringe).
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Ocklawaha on February 21, 2013, 09:41:00 PM
What is the problem with the city council?

+ 1,000 CHA-CHING!
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Jumpinjack on February 24, 2013, 11:37:10 AM
Every developer who has a marginal plan to develop on the outer rim will make an attempt to get the mobility fee waived. Some may not want to deal with it, others will think its a waste of their time to design/build to it....

Lakelander referred to this problem in another thread. Lake Ray, the builders association boot licker,  has a bill in the legislature right now - HB 319
Oh, yes, that same guy hoping to be the new head of JaxPort.

Alachua County which also has a mobility plan is on alert to oppose this bill. (BTW, Mr. Cunningham, Jacksonville also has one) Counties which have tried to counter the effects of bad policies and state cuts in funding could lose all their gains at the state legislature.

Quote
Cities and counties propose and the Legislature disposes

By Ron Cunningham
Special to The Sun
Published: Sunday, February 24, 2013 at 6:01 a.m.
Last Modified: Friday, February 22, 2013 at 11:03 p.m.

If Gainesville is where innovation is born, Tallahassee is where it goes to die.

Case in point: Last year the 1,000 Friends of Florida — an organization dedicated to promoting smart growth planning and sustainable public policies — gave Alachua County its "Better Community Award" for the county's new mobility plan.

Long story short, the plan implements regulations and fees intended to encourage development patterns that will facilitate alternative modes of transportation — transit, biking, walking — with the goal of lessening the community's auto-dependency.

"Alachua County is using a comprehensive approach to promote compact, sustainable development that supports a wide range of transportation alternatives," Charles Pattison, president and CEO of 1000 Friends, said at the time. "With its mobility plan, urban services area and multimodal transportation mitigation ordinance, Alachua County has taken a significant step to promote smarter growth."

Translation: You did good, Alachua County.

Last week came another communication from 1,000 Friends of Florida. With the Legislature soon to convene its annual session, the advocacy group has been keeping track of legislation that might impact, for good or ill, the ability of communities to adopt innovative approaches to growth management, like Alachua County's award winning mobility plan.

Sure enough it came across House Bill 319, by state Rep. Lake Ray, R-Duval. It seems that builders are worried that other cities and counties might follow Alachua's lead and adopt mobility plans of their own; which might in turn lead to new fees on builders. So Ray's bill would nip that sort of thing in the bud.

Only two counties, Alachua and Pasco, have adopted mobility programs so far. And 1,000 Friends warns "if this bill were to pass, their innovative programs would be prohibited in the future."

This is par for the course. If local governments can be fairly described as laboratories for innovative ideas, state legislatures tend to be innovation killers.

Lobbyists know that the quickest way to stop cities and counties from adopting ordinances and policies that special interest groups find objectionable is to get the Legislature to prohibit them.

That's why city and county commissions are forbidden by state law from adopting local gun control ordinances.

Ray's bill isn't the only innovation-killing legislation awaiting the 2013 session. This week the Florida Conservation Coalition — a statewide environmental watchdog group founded by former Gov. Bob Graham — put out an alert about Senate Bill 584, by Sen. Alan Hays, R-Umatilla.

Hays' bill would forbid any state agency, city or county from purchasing land for conservation purposes unless "an equal amount of public property not being held in conservation is returned or sold at fair market value to the private sector."

Voters in Alachua County, of course, have on two occasions agreed to tax themselves in order to buy conservation lands. If enacted, Hays' bill would impose some sort of weird buy-an-acre, sell-an-acre balancing act on any such future initiatives.

"The bill would end Florida Forever and curtail conservation land acquisition in Florida," warns the coalition.

Want more? The Alachua County Commission has been considering following the lead of Miami-Dade and Broward County in adopting a "wage theft" ordinance intended to protect workers from being short-changed by their employers.

Last year a bill prohibiting local governments from passing wage theft ordinances failed to pass. But lawmakers will certainly take another run at that prohibition again this year.

Because that's what they do in Tallahassee.

Cities and counties propose.

And the Legislature disposes.

Ron Cunningham is the former editorial page editor of The Sun.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: tufsu1 on February 24, 2013, 02:14:38 PM
And we keep forgetting:  There is already a waiver to the mobility fee.  Build within the guidelines.

umm...what guidelines are those?
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on February 24, 2013, 03:59:52 PM
^I think he's referring to the mobility fee credit adjustment system and building on sites that reduce the amount of new auto trips your project creates.  In the case of Krispy Kreme on Cassat, LA Fitness on University Boulevard and Mellow Mushroom in Avondale, they would not have had mobility fees because they were/are built on previously developed sites.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: tufsu1 on February 25, 2013, 02:25:48 PM
the reality is the only waiver of the fee is for some redevelopments...which was also in the prvious concurrency system, as it is required by state law.

what you were referring to are credits, which are based on things such as site design, mix of uses, proximity to transit, and composition of the surrounding area....a good development, even in the urban core, is still likely going to pay a mobility fee
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on February 25, 2013, 02:32:17 PM
DT is the only mobility zone where no mobility fee is charged. DT has its own TCEA.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: ChriswUfGator on February 25, 2013, 02:52:35 PM
TUFSU, have you seen all of the available land downtown?

Are you under the impression that only a handful of developers, working within the design guidelines of commercial and residential development could create mobility fee free projects that would keep them busy for the next ten years?

You seem to be arguing that downtown is somehow exempt from development.

Are you?

Except for parking meters. lol
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: tufsu1 on February 25, 2013, 03:21:45 PM
DT is the only mobility zone where no mobility fee is charged. DT has its own TCEA.

correct me if I'm wrong Lake, but in many cases, isn't the TCEA mitigation cost actually more than the mobility fee?
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: spuwho on March 19, 2014, 03:23:03 PM
Tony was complaining that if he had to pay the entire mobility fee for the entire development with just two tenants (Academy and LA Fitness) he would have to charge them huge rents to recover the expense because it wasn't fully leased.

His posture was "hey, help me work with these guys so I can make it work" otherwise they would have walked for cheaper space.

In other words he wasn't going to subsidize the fee for whole development but couldn't pass it on either. So he asked for relief.

But he also changed the name of the place from the Fountains to Atlantic North. Filled in the ponds where the "fountains" were going to be and now has them listed as outparcels.

There is a new store going up right now next to Academy.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Traveller on March 19, 2014, 03:33:38 PM
There is a new store going up right now next to Academy.

That's probably the new Earth Fare grocery store.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Dog Walker on March 19, 2014, 07:18:58 PM
He wants to develop a huge parcel then he needs to pay a huge mobility fee.  If it doesn't rent and fill up quickly then he has made a bad business plan.

Why should we buffer him from bad business plans?
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: JeffreyS on March 19, 2014, 09:42:51 PM
He is certainly free to develop only the sites he can rent. I don't need to subsidize any failed portions of his projects. I have my own bills.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Gunnar on July 29, 2014, 01:15:38 PM
Tony was complaining that if he had to pay the entire mobility fee for the entire development with just two tenants (Academy and LA Fitness) he would have to charge them huge rents to recover the expense because it wasn't fully leased.

That's called free market economy.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Know Growth on January 07, 2015, 08:03:10 PM
See Also- long established Lewis,Longman & Walker

PA

See also- Planners & Consultants   NE Florida    Regional Planning Council  Orlando Utilities/River Summit No.: ah...skip that one,paid off handsomely to remove    DCA   Prosser Hollack  Spelling? I am not prone to pull the files,My Sense is this thread is basically Useless.   Sorry for the abbreviated search horizon. used to be broader.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: YellowBluffRoad on February 01, 2015, 08:35:55 AM
Sorry for asking what's probably a dumb question, but I can't find info on COJ site and my searches on MetroJax are coming up with older info... What's the current status of the mobility fee? Was the sliding scale waiver extended or is it a full funding level now? Are any developments on the outskirts of Jax (still within Duval) being held accountable to pay for a full mobility fee? How does a community member find out how much mobility fee funds have been collected (and for which developments) within a specific mobility zone and what funds from it have been expended towards zone capital improvements?
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: fieldafm on February 01, 2015, 08:51:12 AM
Sorry for asking what's probably a dumb question, but I can't find info on COJ site and my searches on MetroJax are coming up with older info... What's the current status of the mobility fee? Was the sliding scale waiver extended or is it a full funding level now? Are any developments on the outskirts of Jax (still within Duval) being held accountable to pay for a full mobility fee? How does a community member find out how much mobility fee funds have been collected (and for which developments) within a specific mobility zone and what funds from it have been expended towards zone capital improvements?

The 'sliding scale' is in effect at the moment. The Dept of Planning has this info. You can email mlogan@coj.net for all of the numbers. It's all public records accessible to anyone.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: Deusami on March 20, 2016, 01:52:09 PM
Seems like the contributions are so small that the City should be able to take it or leave it.  <$2M lost in transportation revenue seems like a lot to me or to a single business owner but it would only pay for about a mile of roadway.  Transportation budgets are usually two orders of magnitude larger.
Title: Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
Post by: thelakelander on March 20, 2016, 08:07:03 PM
Since it was reduced for years, the contribution should be small. Nevertheless, if it is 2M, you can add and fix a lot of sidewalks with it.