The Jaxson

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on October 16, 2007, 04:00:00 AM

Title: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Metro Jacksonville on October 16, 2007, 04:00:00 AM
Inside the Bostwick Building

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-2636-p1040966.JPG)

Built in 1902, the Bostwick Building is one of downtown's most recognizable vacant historic buildings.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/616
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: vicupstate on October 16, 2007, 08:31:24 AM
Interestng building.  The inside has as much potential as the outside.  It would take some money, bu it could be a real gem, and a great addition to Bay St. renaissance.

So how soon can we expect the wrecking ball?
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: downtownparks on October 16, 2007, 08:44:51 AM
In fairness, Vic, we really need more parking downtown.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Lunican on October 16, 2007, 08:50:32 AM
I can't wait to park my car there!
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: thelakelander on October 16, 2007, 09:13:39 AM
There's definately a lot of potential here, but it will probably require some city help to bring it back.  If something isn't done with it soon, it will probably fall in on itself within a year or two.  If it does go down, expect it to become a parking lot.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: I-10east on October 16, 2007, 09:43:20 AM
Very interesting info concerning the Big Cat...errrr...The Bostwick Bldg; That bldg is in really, really bad shape particularly inside of it; Unfortunately the parking there is non-existent. I really hope that this bldg is restored, but I'd be shocked if that would be the case one of these days. I love the "E.Bay & Ocean engraving" on the corner; I haven't previously noticed it.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: I-10east on October 16, 2007, 10:00:10 AM
Oh, I forgot, I have another concern about the Bostwick Bldg; Does it still have the ghost of the head cashier inside? Maybe that's why no one is trying to restore it; I guess this is a job for the Ghostbusters. :D
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: fsujax on October 16, 2007, 11:01:26 AM
This building could really be something special. Like the Laura Trio, so much potential.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: big ben on October 16, 2007, 02:44:07 PM
i used to work in an historic building that didn't originally have room for parking before being renovated.  2 floors were added to the top with a lobby in the front half of the first floor and parking on the middle floors.  i can't tell much from the pictures, but it might be able to work here.  again, someone would have to really want it, because again, it would take a lot of money. 
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: hanjin1 on October 16, 2007, 02:50:19 PM
isn't there a parking garage across the street? i'm sure there has to be some kind of parking close by, i mean every block seems to have a parking garage or a flat unused parking lot.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: vicupstate on October 16, 2007, 03:18:21 PM
isn't there a parking garage across the street? i'm sure there has to be some kind of parking close by, i mean every block seems to have a parking garage or a flat unused parking lot.

Yes, there is a three or four level parking garage in the very next block.  Just cross Ocean Street and you're there. In fact, that garage consumes it's entire block.   

If living in a city with lots of parking garages ever becomes 'hip', Jacksonville would become an "world class" city overnight. 
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: hanjin1 on October 16, 2007, 03:22:55 PM
I tell ya, one day developers will be making condos and lofts out of our unused parking garages
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: downtownparks on October 16, 2007, 04:26:38 PM
Come on guys. You arent thinking inside the box. There is ALWAYS more need for parking lots.

You have heard the old adage about turning a place into a parking lot... we are doing that, only it isn't a euphemism about nuclear war...
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: floridagirlal on January 24, 2008, 09:08:25 PM
I would like to know more about the suicide in the building.  I've never heard that story before and I'm very familiar with the building.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: gatorback on January 24, 2008, 09:29:33 PM
I can't wait to park my car there!

ha.  my 1st thought when reading this was, what will it look like when it's gone.  :)
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: thelakelander on January 24, 2008, 10:01:25 PM
I would like to know more about the suicide in the building.  I've never heard that story before and I'm very familiar with the building.

Here's some history on the building from: jaxhistory.com/Jax%20Arch%20Herit/D-25.htm (http://jaxhistory.com/Jax%20Arch%20Herit/D-25.htm)

Quote
The past occupants of this location are equally as interesting as the building's architecture.  In 1880  the First National Bank was built on this site.  It was founded in 1874 as Florida's earliest national bank.  Among its first directors was Dr. William M. Bostwick, who later served as mayor of Jacksonville.  Its most famous director was General Francis E. Spinner, Secretary of the U. S. Treasury under Presidents Lincoln, Johnson, and Grant.  First National Bank built a new building here within a year after the 1901 Fire.  The bank failed in 1903, however, and the building was purchased by the Guaranty Trust and Savings Bank, a newly organized bank whose first vice president was Bostwick's son, William M., Jr.  In 1919, the building was expanded to its present size.  This bank closed in 1922 and the building was taken over by yet another bank, the Brotherhood State Bank, which also failed.  (Head cashier Thomas R. Hendricks committed suicide in the bank building on April 11, 1924, and the Brotherhood State Bank never reopened.)  In this building on November 27, 1931, W. M. Bostwick, Jr., repaid all of his depositors who had lost money when the Guaranty Trust and Savings Bank closed eight years earlier.  The depositors presented him with a silver loving cup.  Subsequently, this building has been used as office space under the continuous ownership of the Bostwick family.  A sign on the Ocean Street side still bears the name of architect H. J. Klutho, who maintained his offices in the building during the final years of his career from 1944 to 1960.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: floridagirlal on January 29, 2008, 08:03:08 PM
Who took these pictures of the inside of the building?  How did they get in there?  It looks pretty dangerous.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: jay_me0007 on February 20, 2008, 05:30:26 AM
Thanks for the info. on the building.  Everytime I pass it, I wonder how long it will be there and how much of a shame that there are quite a few historic, run down and vacant buildings downtown.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: mtraininjax on February 29, 2008, 02:08:08 AM
This building's roof has been in bad shape for years. The water damage is extensive inside. The roof will fail soon and it will cause the building to collapse. Or, once the roof is gone, Code Enforcement will condemn the building. Its too bad the Bostwick family has just let it sit and crumble.  :-[
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Johnny on June 10, 2008, 02:58:00 PM
I wonder how much it would cost to get this building and fix it up? Any idea how one could go about finding the financial backings to take on a project like this? I love the building and would definitely be interested in saving it from being destroyed.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: thelakelander on June 10, 2008, 03:00:10 PM
The major key would be getting the family to sell the structure at a true market rate value.  The last time I looked at it, they wanted over $1 million dollars for it "as is".  However, this was before the market went down the tubes.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: RiversideGator on June 10, 2008, 03:15:15 PM
The family clearly has an inflated view of the value of the structure probably because of their emotional ties to it.  Unfortunately, they did not spend the money to maintain the structure and now want to sell it as if they had kept it in mint condition.  They should be realistic and price it appropriately if they are truly interested in saving the building.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: thelakelander on June 10, 2008, 03:33:08 PM
It was pretty interesting listening to the family representative during the tour.  There are strong emotional ties to the structure.  However, while he was going through all the stories, all I could think about is, if someone had replaced the roof during the 70s, the special place described would probably still be in place instead of the shell sitting there today.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Coolyfett on October 02, 2008, 04:02:44 PM
YUCK!! That is what that place looks like inside? Nasty!
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: thelakelander on October 02, 2008, 04:06:34 PM
This is why its still sitting empty.  The owner wants a ton of money for it and then it would take a ton of money to bring it up to code.  Given the conditions and the asking price, its unfeasible to redevelop.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Ocklawaha on October 02, 2008, 09:59:43 PM
I wish it were at Newnan, as this building just screams HISTORIC REDEVELOPEMENT - STREETCAR etc... With the inside so tall, it would nearly be a turn key conversion.  

OCKLAWAHA
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: floridagirlal on December 14, 2008, 07:21:19 PM
For those interested, the asking price for this building has been significantly reduced.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: jaxtrader on December 14, 2008, 09:47:28 PM
It is really tragic to watch this building deteriorate. At least with the Laura trio, a little amelioration work has been done to arrest the decliine.  Not so with the Bostwick building.  The chances of the interior surviving to renovation are pretty slim.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: RiversideGator on December 14, 2008, 11:02:11 PM
What is the current asking price?
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: DetroitInJAX on December 16, 2008, 08:17:31 PM
Am I crazy or does anyone else notice from the outside that it seems as if parts of the building are actually starting to sag?  Seems as if one strong storm a few years from now and one of its walls will end up on the street.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Timkin on August 10, 2010, 07:34:22 PM
Well... would not be surprised if it is.. It is really beautiful on the outside...Obvious that it is badly in need of work on the inside..  I hope it is not demolished.  For as long as they are standing, they are savable .
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: 904Scars on August 11, 2010, 02:04:50 PM
Thanks for the link... I had no idea it's a Klutho design. I did a paper on his apartment building off Main St in High School. Very cool history.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: bornnative on August 19, 2010, 05:58:44 PM
does anyone with experience in that kind of work have a ballpark figure on what might cost to renovate this building to usable condition?

Understanding that it would be a near-blind ballpark figure of course, and excluding acquisition cost.  Oh, and assuming that the walls/exterior structure are salvageable.

So...how much for a new roof structure and gutting/buildout on the interior?
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 19, 2010, 09:59:33 PM
does anyone with experience in that kind of work have a ballpark figure on what might cost to renovate this building to usable condition?

Understanding that it would be a near-blind ballpark figure of course, and excluding acquisition cost.  Oh, and assuming that the walls/exterior structure are salvageable.

So...how much for a new roof structure and gutting/buildout on the interior?

I have about $32 in my checking account;  and I don't think it's enough.  Maybe if I had closer to a hun.....
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: lowlyplanner on August 20, 2010, 03:00:26 PM
The building is around 7,650 square feet.  At $150 per square foot to rehab, you'd need around $1,150,000.

$150 per square foot would be around an average cost for a severely deteriorated historic building.  The cost could easily be much higher ($200 psf or more) depending on the structural condition.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on August 20, 2010, 03:14:30 PM
Thanks for the link... I had no idea it's a Klutho design. I did a paper on his apartment building off Main St in High School. Very cool history.

It's not actually a Klutho design, but it was the location of his final architectural office.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: longhaul on August 23, 2010, 09:45:37 PM
Any ideas for what the best use for this would be?  Is it type-casted to the bar scene?  I suppose it makes sense as a bar or restaurant, but it's always hard to imagine how like tenants on that strip generate business with the area's minimal residents and parking.  Obviously some are making it work.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: thelakelander on August 23, 2010, 10:51:35 PM
With no roof and no off street parking, a bar or restuarant with a lot of outdoor dining/seating behind those walls.  This is assuming the seller would let it go for a reasonable price of course.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: urbaknight on October 25, 2010, 03:00:52 PM
Any ideas for what the best use for this would be?  Is it type-casted to the bar scene?  I suppose it makes sense as a bar or restaurant, but it's always hard to imagine how like tenants on that strip generate business with the area's minimal residents and parking.  Obviously some are making it work.


I think an NYC style nightclub would be perfect. We could keep the murals where the windows used to be, this would allow the best lighting, and nightclubs usually don't have windows. I believe there's just one big open space inside. Put a bar in the corner and have a dancefloor. Yes, I think a nightclub is what the area needs especially since so much has opened right within the few blocks, Lit, The Ivy, Northstar, marks, Dive bar etc.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Timkin on October 26, 2010, 04:53:52 PM
This is why its still sitting empty.  The owner wants a ton of money for it and then it would take a ton of money to bring it up to code.  Given the conditions and the asking price, its unfeasible to redevelop.

 This sounds too familiar.. the exact same Scenario as the Annie Lytle School..except now there are two owners involved .. one owning the building and the land under the building, and the other owning the surrounding land.  Emotional ties to these, yet spending ZERO to maintain them ,and still wanting a fortune.  Guess when both of these places collapse, and the owners face lawsuits for someone getting hurt, they will realize it might have been smarter to offload them to someone who would do something positive.   I love this building's exterior... very beautiful .
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: sheclown on August 09, 2012, 07:50:52 AM
On the agenda for demolition at August HPC meeting.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Timkin on August 09, 2012, 10:46:13 AM
What would be the costs to stabilize the building , rather than take it out? 

This is senseless.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Debbie Thompson on August 09, 2012, 12:55:03 PM
Just what we need downtown.  Another vacant lot.  :-(
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: bornnative on August 09, 2012, 01:42:21 PM
Probably $50k or so for demolition, $100k or so for getting it back to a point where Code Enforcement would stop accruing daily fines.  That wouldn't make it usable, just up to minimum code to stop the fines.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Overstreet on August 09, 2012, 02:04:49 PM
$100k you need to define scope. The inside is rotted out. There are stairs, ie steel structure, rotted out. I suspect you'd have problems filling in the hole in the roof. Vegetables are growing in the parapet.  Start around $500k.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: bornnative on August 09, 2012, 02:17:42 PM
The scope of my $100k estimate is only to reach minimum code for the items the building is currently being dinged for.  Shoring up the walls can be done internally with leaned/attached beams, and the roof can be covered suitable to minimum code without actually installing a new roof.  There are separate structural issues that would have to be addressed that would most certainly get you into the $500k range and beyond, even before the building could be usable or occupied in any way.  To only mitigate the existing violations, however, should be significantly less.

Realistically, it's at least a $2million job to get it mitigated and usable depending on the exact buildout plan.  And that $2million doesn't buy you any parking.

The building is in a tough spot to be sure.  Unless a white knight shows up, I fear it may be past the point of viable salvation.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: thelakelander on August 09, 2012, 04:12:36 PM
Yeah, the inside is basically a lost cause.  The best thing one could do with this site is shore up the exterior walls and construct something new behind them.  A good example of this is the residential loft at 11th & Market Streets in Springfield.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Tacachale on August 09, 2012, 04:20:25 PM
^That's a thought. The exterior is really cool and it would be hard to lose it.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: sheclown on August 09, 2012, 05:34:37 PM
Some facts:

1.) the structure does NOT have landmark status and therefore cannot be mothballed as a protection against rolling fines

2.) the structure is getting $100 a day rolling fines

This building would qualify for landmark status if the owners choose.

Then it could be mothballed.

This was the first building to be issued a building permit after the fire.

This is the first building you see as you enter the city.

It is not a blighting influence right now.



It is a landmark, much like Springfield's steeple is "contributing".
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Adam W on August 09, 2012, 06:20:16 PM
It would be a crime to lose that building. Surely there must be something that can be done.

(Of course, it's easy to say that when you're not the person who is going to have to shell out the $$$ to get it done).
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: strider on August 09, 2012, 06:43:30 PM
Once a building is condemned and MCCD starts on thier demolition campaign, only bringing the building to a certificate of occupancy stops the fines and gets MCCD's head off your back.  Or, of course, demolishing the building.  Shoring up walls and addressing the original MCCD concerns do not do it.  All they have to do is internally decide that the repairs needed are over 50% of the buildings value and they can insist it meets all of today's current codes. If you are thinking MCCD has too much power over an individual's property rights, you are correct.  It is, though, all in the name of safety, don't ya know. And the Jacksonville way.  Do whatever it takes to ensure another building gets torn down.

The positive is that with landmark status, this building could be mothballed for less than the cost of demolition and at least the facade saved for the future.

Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: JFman00 on August 09, 2012, 06:53:36 PM
Why haven't/don't the owners seek landmark status for the building and fundraise/Kickstarter the way to mothballing?
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Ocklawaha on August 10, 2012, 12:01:44 AM
It would make a great place for a SOUTHERN FRIED ROCK AND BLUES museum, hall of fame, venue. Gotta wonder if we could interest the Molly Hatchet, Skynyrd, Allman Brothers or any of the other locals who would ultimately star in the exhibits? 
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: BackinJax05 on August 10, 2012, 01:04:31 AM
I sure hope something can be done with it before it collapses on itself.

Neglecting historic buildings should be a crime.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Timkin on August 10, 2012, 01:15:35 AM
I sure hope something can be done with it before it collapses on itself.

Neglecting historic buildings should be a crime.

^ Thank you !!!  I am so glad to hear one person besides myself agrees about that ! :)
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: BackinJax05 on August 10, 2012, 01:21:38 AM
Looking at the pictures of the old vault, this would be a great place to shoot a BSDM adult film ;)
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Timkin on August 10, 2012, 01:34:39 AM
So.... To shore up the building ( keep it from collapsing )  What kind of money are we talking?


Surely there is an alternative to removing this place.   Cmon COJ / MCCD!!!    STOP THIS NONSENSE!!!
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: sheclown on August 10, 2012, 07:57:41 AM
The price tag to demo is $40k.  Certainly that could do some stabilization.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: sheclown on August 10, 2012, 08:01:11 AM
MCCD has no dog in this fight.  With the exception of the $100 a day rolling fines.  They are not requesting demolition nor offering to pay for it.

Owners filed for a building permit to demolish last week.  Because it qualifies for historic landmark status --  but isn't one --  there is a hold on demolition permits for 45 days which gives the HPC time to speak on it.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on August 10, 2012, 09:37:08 AM
The mayor posted this on his "details of downtown" Facebook photo series today, so I made sure to say my piece about how this building needs to be saved from demolition.  I encourage everyone to do the same.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Debbie Thompson on August 10, 2012, 02:06:20 PM
Learn something everyday.  Wacca, how do I find the mayor's Facebook page.  What's it under?
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on August 10, 2012, 02:59:45 PM
Learn something everyday.  Wacca, how do I find the mayor's Facebook page.  What's it under?

He has a public figure page under the name Mayor Alvin Brown.
Title: Re: Inside the Bostwick Building
Post by: sheclown on August 10, 2012, 07:03:10 PM
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/Bostwick001.jpg)

http://www.jaxhistory.com/book.htm