Author Topic: Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?  (Read 15603 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?
« on: September 23, 2010, 04:19:16 AM »
Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?



In the past, it has been mentioned that the rail facilities at the proposed Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center were extremely inadequate. After reviewing JTA correspondence, Metro Jacksonville's beliefs have been verified.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-sep-are-jtas-downtown-amtrak-plans-already-outdated

CS Foltz

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Re: Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2010, 06:21:14 AM »
Gentlemen.............when is JTA going to stop and do things half assed? Not only is the track situation inadequate but there appears to me to be ............no room to expand if needed! They have designed a bottle neck into the track equation!  JTA needs this gold plated ediface, like I need another eye in the middle of chest! Talk about a waste, Amtrak will not supply a letter saying this is the one and JTA wonders why? Here we go again! Bovines...........plain and simple!

billy

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Re: Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2010, 06:47:43 AM »
Is there a plan anywhere showing tracks with the convention center addition
removed?

fsujax

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Re: Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2010, 08:08:01 AM »
I have an idea....Let's just take down the Lee St viaduct. that would solve a lot of operational issues! Ock...where you at?

arb

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Re: Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2010, 08:37:20 AM »
Ugh! This gets me aggravated. Maybe Amtrak can do a little better than JTA?

fsujax

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Re: Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2010, 08:44:07 AM »
JTA will not build any new track without Amtrak's approval. That is about as simple as it gets!

Ocklawaha

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Re: Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2010, 08:57:03 AM »
I'm watching from over on track 8...

OCKLAWAHA

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Re: Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2010, 09:58:17 AM »
The architecture is outdated indeed as well

JeffreyS

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Re: Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2010, 10:34:16 AM »
Just do it right JTA. That starts with worming your way back into Jacksonville Terminal (sadly known as the Prime Osborn Convention Center). Demand the tracks instead of trying to make do with less than you deserve.  We need to make highest and best use of our facilities and for Jacksonville Terminal that is as our transportation center.
Lenny Smash

Ocklawaha

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Re: Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2010, 10:43:27 AM »
I have an idea....Let's just take down the Lee St viaduct. that would solve a lot of operational issues! Ock...where you at?



If it's going to work, It's bigger then three tracks boys and girls...
...and YES this is JACKSONVILLE TERMINALS "throat"

It's a great idea as far as rail traffic is concerned to remove the viaduct completely. I don't know how easy it would be to sell to the city, but at least a temporary demolition would get us up and running, at which time the viaduct could be re-replaced correctly (IE: 24' clearance over all 6-10 tracks, the current "new" viaduct was built too low with 16' of clearance over all but 2-3 tracks which I suspect drove the consultants to the three track station... THINK OUT OF THE BOX BOYS).

My opinion on this is that "God and Henry M. Flagler," gave us 3 natural corridors over the railways and McCoys Creek. Riverside Avenue is our primary auto corridor with very heavy traffic and fairly steep approaches with ample clearance over the rail lines. Further, Riverside is already blessed with a Skyway right-of-way between the Times-Union and Forest Street. If JTA is on the ball they might even move the old fire station across the street to serve as part of a future bus-streetcar-Skyway station.

Lee Street while wide open and certainly a gateway to Park Street is lightly traveled and could easily be converted into a couple of traffic lanes and a couple of bus-only lanes making it the unobstructed bus gateway to Riverside and LaVilla or the new JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL COMPLEX. Lee is a natural for BRT and we needn't muddy the waters by duplication (as in the southbank BRT-Skyway fiasco) of modes where we would be competing with ourselves.

Myrtle is the historic streetcar route and while flood prone today, the floor is slightly above the river level making it fixable. The original Myrtle Street Subways floor was concave and a couple of feet below the track center line for drainage. Considering the urban development power that has blossomed all around the nations new-old streetcar lines, I would go right back to Myrtle with the car line jogging from Forest-Myrtle-Bay.
Can you imagine the development that would explode in Brooklyn with Skyway on Riverside, BRT on Park and Streetcar on Myrtle? This route also loads us up for a future line down Myrtle and the restored Durkeeville neighborhood.

Per our articles, the station could then start to change the rail facility into the gateway to Florida that it has always been. Doesn't matter one bit if Amtrak approves or not on anything but the 3-4 tracks they plan to use as once we toss a REAL station track layout at them we are going to get an instant response of new thought. Those goofy trains from Los Angeles to Orlando are suddenly going to be Jacksonville-Los Angles operations, Atlanta, High-Speed rail and every other northeast corridor extension plan will HAVE TO TAKE NOTICE due to sheer economics. The other benefit is of course having all the room we desire for commuter rail, be it a single train each morning and evening or dozens.

More good news? Maybe. Part of the old coach yards with some 6-8 tracks is currently occupied by Conrad Yelvington Cement. It still has all of the switches, some of the signals, and a direct lead into the west end of the station tracks.

Hows that FSUJAX? Hopefully we will now get on to constructive discussion. I know you and I spoke about this one day while watching trains and seem to remember you saying we should write this stuff down.



OCKLAWAHA
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 01:03:21 PM by Ocklawaha »

Ocklawaha

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Re: Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2010, 11:46:47 AM »


Here is the "official" plan from the same viewpoint... ENJOY!

Here you go kids...  OCK'S SOLUTION...

In this plan the station hosts 8 tracks and 3 (top of the plan - south side of station) are through tracks to the FEC - narrowing to two at the bridge.)


OCKLAWAHA
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 01:14:38 PM by Ocklawaha »

CS Foltz

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Re: Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2010, 02:01:52 PM »
Your plan makes more sense to me Ock! It takes into account what comes in, has a chance to go out instead of taking a number and creating a train block from hell! Plus it incorporates what is already there even if it is not used today! There is always tomorrow and expansion should be an option!

ChriswUfGator

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Re: Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2010, 03:46:40 PM »
Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?



In the past, it has been mentioned that the rail facilities at the proposed Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center were extremely inadequate. After reviewing JTA correspondence, Metro Jacksonville's beliefs have been verified.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-sep-are-jtas-downtown-amtrak-plans-already-outdated

You gotta be kidding! They are actually going to waste more money building a new facility right next to the old one, only to wind up with fewer tracks? Genuis! Why buy one thing when you can get half as much for twice the price. Makes sense to me...


CS Foltz

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Re: Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2010, 03:56:14 PM »
Well chris we are discussing JTA and the City all in the same breath here!

Ocklawaha

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Re: Are JTA's Downtown Amtrak Plans Already Outdated?
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2010, 04:51:44 PM »
You gotta be kidding! They are actually going to waste more money building a new facility right next to the old one, only to wind up with fewer tracks? Genuis! Why buy one thing when you can get half as much for twice the price. Makes sense to me...

ROFLMAO Chris, that was pretty funny. This DOES bring to mind one of my major problems with the whole JTA plan, Why the hell build a new 1/2 of a train station for Amtrak right alongside one that has stood the test of time since 1912. Los Angeles didn't rearrange Union Station for Amtrak and Metrolink. Seattle didn't rearrange King Street Station because they just got the Sounders to go with Amtrak's Cascades. Stuff like this only happened in Nashville and similar towns where the old stations had been closed down, rebuilt, sold to Hilton, etc... We just don't need to:

1. Change the station and/or location and/or layout at all.
2. Add to an already underused edifice.

Not to mention that the "new" plan doesn't have a damn thing in it for lease space. No Hertz, no Avis, no Enterprise, No coffee shoppe, No Union Station Gift shop...have these guys forgotten that this is DOWNTOWN and can attract a crowd with quality services?

BTW, the candy down in bump-out kiosk two down on the concourse and the ham and eggs in the restaurant used to be the best in town.


OCKLAWAHA