Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus

[Metro Jacksonville]

Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus



Plans are underway to enhance the Riverside Trolley route between Downtown and the Riverside/Avondale Historic District.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jul-changes-coming-to-riverside-trolley-bus

[urbanjacksonville]

Badass! This is awesome news! I have set up an event on Facebook to show the numbers of people planning to go. If you're on Facebook and are planning to attend, add yourself to the list or leave a public comment. There is a video and other resources on the FB event too.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=137423262954585

We are trying to get a critical mass of people to use their lunch break on Friday to show support for transit options besides that are not busses. If you want more transit options in Jacksonville, this is your chance. So pack and lunch or eat at your desk and come represent at JTA on Friday!

If you can't make it on Friday leave a comment online or send an email to JTA
http://www.jtafla.com/RidingJTA/showPage.aspx?Sel=19&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

Email your comments to Kent Stover at kstover@jtafla.com, fax them to Kent Stover at 904.630.3168 or enter them here online using the customer comment form found under Customer Support. All comments must be received no later than 6 p.m. Friday, July 23 to be considered in the final decision.

<a href="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=13452096&amp;amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;amp;show_title=1&amp;amp;show_byline=1&amp;amp;show_portrait=1&amp;amp;color=dade00&amp;amp;fullscreen=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=13452096&amp;amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;amp;show_title=1&amp;amp;show_byline=1&amp;amp;show_portrait=1&amp;amp;color=dade00&amp;amp;fullscreen=1</a>

[Steve]

While good, I think there are some critical problems with the service:

The Route - Riverside Avenue is not a good choice because it only serves the commercial area.  If you're running it 5 to 7:30, then you are looking to serve residents.  Move it up one block to Oak.  It's the historic streetcar road, and you better serve the northern residents

The Headways - 30 minute is WAY too long (15 is pushing it).  Remember, with a trolley, the idea is that it is frequent service.  Plus, I don't necessarily know what time a trolley is coming by a particular stop, I jsut have to wait.  As it takes less than 10 to drive downtown even from Avondale, I don't know that I'm going to wait 30 minutes for a trolley.

The Timing - 5AM?  I don't believe anyone who gets to work at 5:30 AM is going to use this.  First of all, there is NO ONE on the road.  Second, they are getting the first parking spot in the garage - why give that up?  Change it to 6:30 to 9, and you get the same work crowd, and you capture people who either want to stay late at work, hit a happy hour, or go to the gym.

[Doctor_K]

^ Agree.  Yet another good idea that will suffer from poor implementation.  Yay JTA!

[JeffreyS]

I posted this as my dream streetcar route a year or so ago.

[Ocklawaha]

Badass! This is awesome news! I have set up an event on Facebook to show the numbers of people planning to go. If you're on Facebook and are planning to attend, add yourself to the list or leave a public comment. There is a video and other resources on the FB event too.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=137423262954585

We are trying to get a critical mass of people to use their lunch break on Friday to show support for transit options besides that are not busses. If you want more transit options in Jacksonville, this is your chance. So pack and lunch or eat at your desk and come represent at JTA on Friday!

Damn Joey! IT'S A FREAKING BUS...

NOT A STREETCAR

NOT A TROLLEY

NOT EVEN A DECENT FAKE

IT'S ANOTHER STINKING,

CLINKING, CLANKING, CLATTERING,

COLLECTION OF CALIGINOUS JTA JUNK!

Think I'm going to start a facebook page for deluded people! If you think trading wooden fake trolley seats for somewhat comfortable bus seats is an improvement, I've got a bridge for you!


OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Watch it Ock.  JTA doesn't look kindly on employees who tell them the truth.  You are going to blow that job interview for their mass transit lackey! 

[Ocklawaha]

Told y'all I wouldn't last 14 minutes!

Truth hurts don't it boyz!

OCKLAWAHA

[urbanlibertarian]

I would think that the 5am start time is because it is merging with the current WS1 route and must accomodate the resident riders already using that service.  JTA appears to be trying to get more bang for the buck and that's a good thing.

[fieldafm]

The Route - Riverside Avenue is not a good choice because it only serves the commercial area.  If you're running it 5 to 7:30, then you are looking to serve residents.  Move it up one block to Oak.  It's the historic streetcar road, and you better serve the northern residents

The Headways - 30 minute is WAY too long (15 is pushing it).  Remember, with a trolley, the idea is that it is frequent service.  Plus, I don't necessarily know what time a trolley is coming by a particular stop, I jsut have to wait.  As it takes less than 10 to drive downtown even from Avondale, I don't know that I'm going to wait 30 minutes for a trolley.

The Timing - 5AM?  I don't believe anyone who gets to work at 5:30 AM is going to use this.  First of all, there is NO ONE on the road.  Second, they are getting the first parking spot in the garage - why give that up?  Change it to 6:30 to 9, and you get the same work crowd, and you capture people who either want to stay late at work, hit a happy hour, or go to the gym.

I can see what you're saying about Riverside Avenue... but one positive may be that the road at Margaret/Riverside, Riverside/Stockton and down to Riverside/Park will be better maintained.  That's some of the most poorly maintained intersections in this city in regards to potholes, etc.

It was noted that there will be 15 minute intervals during the busier periods, plus aren't much of the bus routes along St Johns now on one hour intervals?

I would think that the 5am start time is because it is merging with the current WS1 route and must accomodate the resident riders already using that service.  JTA appears to be trying to get more bang for the buck and that's a good thing.

And I would agree with that assesment.

I'll be at the morning meeting.  If anyone wants a pre-meeting breakfast at The Fox or possibly Uptown...

[Steve]

I can see what you're saying about Riverside Avenue... but one positive may be that the road at Margaret/Riverside, Riverside/Stockton and down to Riverside/Park will be better maintained.  That's some of the most poorly maintained intersections in this city in regards to potholes, etc.

I don't think JTA should be in the business of putting transit where we need maintenance, we should put it where it would be best used.  Oak Street has a lot of vacant retail/residential.  Putting it here could help that, and be more convenient for the residential folks walking to it.

It was noted that there will be 15 minute intervals during the busier periods, plus aren't much of the bus routes along St Johns now on one hour intervals?

If JTA is just trying to give the existing riders a prettier bus, then fine.  However, I would think by dressing up the bus, you would be trying to get new transit riders that aren't currently using JTA services.  For example, my Wife and I live in Riverside.  She works at LPS (one of the Fidelity Spinoffs) on Riverside Avenue.  Right now she drives it in about 8 minutes.  She hates driving such a short distance, and she would love to use transit to get to work (her words, not mine).  She would walk to a transit stop if she knew that she would wait, at most, 10-15 minutes.  Waiting 30 minutes (then figure another 5-10 minutes from let's say Stockton Street, so a 40 minute commute), is not reasonable from Riverside IMO.

With the buses, the JTA scheduling folks give times that people can expect the bus to cross a certain point (whether or not they hit that, is another story).  The trolley isn't designed that way - it's designed to just walk up to a stop, and one will show up.  10 Minutes, fine.  15 Minutes, okay but not great.  30 Minutes, unacceptable - I'm driving.

[fieldafm]

I see what you're saying about the intervals... I hadn't really thought of it like that whereas the PCT routes don't have specific times like the bus routes do.  That's one thing I would like to find out about at the meeting Friday.  If they are going to use the PCT service to reduce bus routes along this stretch(something that would make sense), timed stops would be crucial.  Didn't really look at that perspective!

As far as Oak, yes that corridor is not what it once was... but wouldnt the proposed streetcar line help rectify that in a much more efficient manner?

[JeffreyS]

This is great if it is a primer for streetcar. Fixed transit is what developers can investe around.

[tufsu1]

I would think that the 5am start time is because it is merging with the current WS1 route and must accomodate the resident riders already using that service.  JTA appears to be trying to get more bang for the buck and that's a good thing.

correct...and the 30 minute headways probably match or improve on the Ws1 schedule...while not ideal, 30 minute headways for bus routes is considered acceptable for many transit systems...if ridership increases significanly, then you go to 10-15-20 minute headways.

[Doctor_K]

Or if ridership doesn't improve due to long headways, there is no incentive (on paper) to decrease the length of the headways, and ridership remains low.

Just like now.

40+ minute headways on the L9 (before it was rerouted - dammit) was obscene and one reason why I continued to commute by car in the days of $4.00/gallon gas.  40-minute headways are not convenient.  At all.  And that's if it's on schedule.