Author Topic: 5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment  (Read 15316 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment
« on: June 29, 2010, 04:21:19 AM »
5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment



If you think the Skyway is a drain on resources, it's nothing compared to the continuously growing deficit a failed road can bring to the table. While local leaders and planners struggle to find an entity willing to take on the risk of constructing the First Coast Outer Beltway, South Carolina's failed Southern Connector suggests that the entire plan may have a foundation built upon sand. Will we learn from their mistakes before it's too late?


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http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jun-5-reasons-why-the-outer-beltway-may-be-a-bad-investment

BridgeTroll

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Re: 5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2010, 08:00:31 AM »
We already have an outer beltway... it is called I-295/9a.  Fill that circle in before expanding.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

tufsu1

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Re: 5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2010, 08:50:56 AM »
there are several toll roads/bridges around the country that are facing financial problems.....some believe these will be handled just like the housing market....when the project files for bankruptcy (or foreclosure), someone else swoops in and takes control of the project for a lot less....the biggest losers in the end are the original bond holders.

Abhishek

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Re: 5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2010, 09:42:03 AM »
On one of the Envision 2035 meetings I attended, it was proposed that there would be satellite towns around the suburbs of Jacksonville. Businesses will spread there. The outer beltway will service those towns.

The big question is what kind of businesses will want to be around Jacksonville. We have a port and interstate connectivity (I10 and I95). Is the city providing incentives for businesses to locate to the greater Jacksonville area? If they are actively pursuing the growth of a manufacturing/assembly industry, then the outer beltway makes some sense. Is there enough rail connectivity in those areas?

Would a robust commuter rail system make more sense along the outer beltway than a highway? More roads spreading people and businesses further out of the city make people more dependent on cars. Does the city want that for its citizens?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair

jandar

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Re: 5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2010, 09:44:42 AM »
lol,

Some of those points sound like me talking.
Purple route, I back the Outer Beltway.
Pink route, may it die a quick death.

peestandingup

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Re: 5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2010, 09:45:58 AM »
Just how big do we wanna make our footprint here in Jax?? I know we're all "core whores" here, but still. This doesn't make a whole hell of a lotta sense any way you slice it. Especially when you consider how much vacant & unused property is currently inside the beltway & the fact that the Skyway is WAY underdeveloped.

Cities who don't start conserving land, driving less, getting public transit together & tightening up RIGHT NOW are gonna be the places that will lose. My fear is that Jax will be one of those cities.

brainstormer

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Re: 5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2010, 09:50:41 AM »
An excellent comparison that further justifies why I have been against the outer beltway from the beginning.

Lunican

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Re: 5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2010, 10:16:07 AM »
The Outer Beltway is the exact opposite of what Jax should be focusing on. It's shameful that time is spent thinking up something so ridiculous and wasteful.

Abhishek

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Re: 5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2010, 10:21:42 AM »
I agree on getting more density. The outer beltway goes against that notion. If you are not in the gas-station business yet, now is the time!
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair

copperfiend

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Re: 5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2010, 10:52:40 AM »
I agree on getting more density. The outer beltway goes against that notion. If you are not in the gas-station business yet, now is the time!

You mean like Gate gas stations? In the road being built, I wonder if Gate Construction would be involved. Or Gate Concrete Products.

Just sayin'
« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 10:54:51 AM by copperfiend »

tufsu1

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Re: 5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2010, 11:13:20 AM »
I agree on getting more density. The outer beltway goes against that notion. If you are not in the gas-station business yet, now is the time!


shhh.  don't tell tufsu that.  He will only launch into an explanation of why its important for the outlying counties to have growth and sprawl too!

it would be really nice if you actually listened to what people say....I will continue to state that growth in outlying counties should not be discouraged all the time....it is possible to have dense, mixed-use developments in those outlying areas....which would be a perfect set-up for commuter rail.

AaroniusLives

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Re: 5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2010, 12:24:37 PM »
I'm not a huge fan of inner beltways, let alone outer ones. I've now lived in two cities that are encircled by beltways, and both are insane to drive upon for a variety of reasons (in Atlanta, they take directional stupidity to new heights...when you are traveling west the signs say "north," for example.)

Having said that, the comparison between the proposed 1st Coast Outer Beltway and the Southern Connector is a bit flawed.

In the first place, the Southern Connector creates a beltway around nothing. No central city, no locus of importance, zip. It may not be a road to nowhere, but it's a road that encircles nowhere. (Seriously, who thought this up?)

In the next, in no way does the population of the Greenville–Mauldin–Easley metropolitan area remotely justify the need or the existence of a beltway. As of 2009, 639,617 people live there. Let that marinate for a moment.  And they need a beltway highway? For what? Drag racing?

Again, I don't think that the First Coast Outer Beltway is going to promote density or smart development. But Jacksonville's MSA is much, much larger, with 1,313,228 people. More than twice the population live in "Greater Jacksonville" than "Greater Greenville." I still don't think it's justified, but I can at least see how one could make the argument for it. Especially compared to the donut hole that's driving around nowhere in South Carolina. That looks like the dumbest of all dumb ideas brought to life. Like, it couldn't get any dumber.

Captain Zissou

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Re: 5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2010, 12:49:10 PM »
Everyone has hit most points on why this is a bad idea, but I just wanted to reiterate a couple.

Beltways don't relieve congestion, they allow for congestion in more areas.  Should people be willing to put up $5 one way to get to work, this road will clog while every road it was meant to relieve will remain clogged. 

This is a sprawl inducing handout to developers. All this does is open up more swamp land and forest for McMansions and cookie cutter homes.  You can't even see Jacksonville on the Map of the proposed route.  People need to see this for what it is and pull the plug.

For $5 bucks a pop, this would make a great drag strip.

copperfiend

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Re: 5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2010, 12:54:52 PM »
I agree with your sentiments regarding land for cookie cutter homes and strip malls. My biggest issue is the number of half built subdivision and empty strip malls we already have in this town. Drive down St Augustine Rd, Atlantic Blvd, Southside Blvd, Phillips Hwy, San Jose Blvd and look at the empty strip malls. Some of them are brand new and have never had tenants.

This site had a pictoral of the development in St Johns county with empty lot after empty lot of single family home sites. Do we need more?

Captain Zissou

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Re: 5 Reasons Why The Outer Beltway May Be A Bad Investment
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2010, 01:11:23 PM »
I agree copper.  I just posted something similar on another thread.  We have to fill out our already existing urban and suburban areas before we branch out.  I say we start in the dead center and fill the core before even focusing on the suburban areas.