Author Topic: Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?  (Read 32858 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?
« on: May 31, 2010, 04:04:29 AM »
Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?



Cities around the country are planning or building new streetcar systems to focus development in their urban cores. After years of unsuccessful urban revitalization strategies, Jacksonville should consider the impact of viable mass transit investment on the surrounding built environment.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-may-why-build-a-streetcar-in-jacksonville

cityimrov

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Re: Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2010, 05:35:42 AM »
I'm not a bus rider but I remember a JTA article around here and some other comments mentioning how bad they were.

Won't using Streetcars force JTA to be more competent too?  A streetcar is forced on a certain route due to it's tracks.  JTA says it's bad but isn't that a good thing?  That means that route will never change and due to the high price of a streetcar, it will probably be tracked by some type of central command.  Since it is a brand new streetcar system, each one could also be easily added to a website to track the location of each car via my smartphone.

Of course, I'm probably just dreaming right now.  There's a right way to build a streetcar system and there's a wrong way.  I'm a bit worried that if Jax does approve this, it will be a "streetcar to nowhere."  In a way, lots of lobbying would be needed on the stops this thing would take and thus killing the project because people would say "see, we built this line here and nobody would ride it!" 

vicupstate

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Re: Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2010, 08:16:07 AM »
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln

JeffreyS

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Re: Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2010, 08:22:34 AM »
We should have built a line ten years ago from Riverside through Downtown to either Springfield or the Sports District.  Our core could have taken full advantage of the market boom and it would have mitigated a little the down turn in the market.
Our next transit solution should be some kind of fixed rail and connect to more residential areas.
Lenny Smash

Ocklawaha

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Re: Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2010, 09:18:17 AM »
We had this plan in our city's hands 30 years ago, we should have been first out of the gate with a heritage streetcar system and a working museum.

We would have "been" Portland, San Diego, Salt Lake City, Little Rock or Tampa, and our skyline during the recent boom would have multiplied several times.


OCKLAWAHA

Bativac

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Re: Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2010, 11:24:59 AM »
Where would the money come from? People in Jax get angry if you consider spending as little as half a million dollars on saving an old building, or providing loans or assistance to developers wanting to renovate historic structures downtown. How will the citizens react to dumping money into a streetcar system? You can predict the responses - "nobody rides the bus anyway, who's gonna ride a streetcar" "what about that useless Skyway," etc.

I read that the Tucson project is costing $182 million, with $63 million coming from the Federal Government. That's a big chunk of change.

How do you talk the people into supporting something like this? Or do you ignore the people and find a mayor who will try to force it thru anyway? (For the record, I'd love to see a streetcar in Jacksonville. But I don't see the majority of local residents supporting it.)

Keith-N-Jax

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Re: Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2010, 11:32:31 AM »
Bativac with this way of thinking why do anything.

thelakelander

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Re: Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2010, 12:26:16 PM »
If the mobility plan is adopted by council this fall, a chunk of the funds needed would come from it. Pool that money with other sources (feds, private sector, state, etc.) and you'll have the money to get it done.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

CS Foltz

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Re: Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2010, 12:35:28 PM »
I agree lake! The "Mobility Plan" at least gives us the framework for intercity rail of some sort or flavor! We need to get this up to speed and as rapidly as possible! Only problem I see is depending on the City Council to get this passed and not really sure they even realize the possibilities!

tufsu1

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Re: Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2010, 01:15:02 PM »
If the mobility plan is adopted by council this fall, a chunk of the funds needed would come from it. Pool that money with other sources (feds, private sector, state, etc.) and you'll have the money to get it done.

wait...aren't the mobility funds from the private sector?

spuwho

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Re: Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2010, 03:02:39 PM »
Streetcars require transit based zoning around the "fixed" track to maintain density and ridership. Jacksonville has not shown any propensity to enforce any kind of zoning that promotes this. With this in mind JTA is very reluctant to stick their necks out to lobby and pitch for funds to build something that might get left hanging.

Hence they push for buses which they can redeploy easily based on the zoning whim of the city council. Buses are also a great jobs and patronage engine as they require drivers, mechanics and administration.

Streetcars (or any kind of local transit) requires cooperative and strategic thinking on behalf of the local leadership. As long as they remain reactive, streetcars will never happen here.

JeffreyS

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Re: Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2010, 03:58:14 PM »
^You will be able to ride a Streetcar in Jax within five years.
Lenny Smash

Keith-N-Jax

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Re: Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2010, 04:11:23 PM »
OK Jeffrey 2015-2016 we will see. I doubt it though. Wether it be COJ, JEA, JTA anything containing the name Jacksonville I wouldn't put much belief in it. Tampa and Savannah will be the only street cars we will be riding so enjoy your trip when you visit those places.

RockStar

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Re: Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2010, 04:22:18 PM »
JTA wants busses, not rail. They've paved over or tore up plenty of existing track to make that painfully obvious. How about a bus that looks like a trolley??? oh we have those... LoL

Keith-N-Jax

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Re: Why Build A Streetcar in Jacksonville?
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2010, 04:59:19 PM »
OK Jeffrey 2015-2016 we will see. I doubt it though. Wether it be COJ, JEA, JTA anything containing the name Jacksonville I wouldn't put much belief in it. Tampa and Savannah will be the only street cars we will be riding so enjoy your trip when you visit those places.

Its reason to be active in this upcoming elections, Keith.  The City is held back not by it assetts and potential but by its blisteringly bad leadership.

Vote out the dumbasses, Vote in smart people who are committed to making the city great.  Too much money and too many people here to have to settle for the pile of puppy muffins that we have now.
Vote in smart people. Tell me again how Peyton got into office and for two terms. JTA = COJ both a fry short of a Happy meal. This poster is right JTA wants buses, that's easy to deal with, we dont want JTA to be exposed for the frauds they are. Street cars and rail actually call for having a brain. Theres no way JTA has not seen or made aware of what other cities have accomplished while we debate over BRT. Its time to put up, or shut up. I am so tired of the oh its take 20 to 30 yrs. They've had that and then some.