Author Topic: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality  (Read 17896 times)

fieldafm

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Re: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2010, 03:06:27 PM »
Downtown Vision's newest advocacy paper (Turning the Corner Rethinking Downtown) is a wonderful read that offers a very clear and concise assesment of the problems downtown has faced as well as suggestions for improvement that are rooted in a deep understanding of the problems.  The general consensus here is that the focus needs to be centered in the core and the Landing is unquestionably the heart of the core.  Neglecting it is quite simply to neglect downtown in general.  As this study clearly concludes, the time to just 'get by' in relation to downtown is over.

Among some great passages from the paper include:
 A tendency to spread limited resources over too large an area rather than concentrate on the revitalization of the blighted core of Downtown.
 A large supply of vacant and undeveloped land in Downtown outside the core, including approximately 125 acres on the riverfront alone, which can make it more desirable to develop on the periphery of Downtown than in the core.
 An overemphasis on large, expensive capital projects to revitalize Downtown, with too little attention to maintenance, place-making and the creation of a vibrant Downtown experience.
 Lack of coordinated, consistent and sustained leadership by government and businesses concerning Downtown.
 Lack of agreement on a vision and game plan for what is needed to revitalize Downtown.
 Increased competition from the suburbs.


Other great lines...  

This is the cultural and historical heart of the city and the area most severely affected by the problems described in this paper. During the past ten years, more than $1.1 billion in development has taken place in Downtown, of which less than one third was in the urban core.

Downtown must have consistent, energized and ambitious civic, business and government leadership with a shared vision, greater ambition and a willingness to consider new ways of thinking about Downtown. We have often sold ourselves short, adopting a “get by” attitude toward Downtown’s revitalization and many other aspects of our city.   And futher...   It is evident from visits to successful urban areas that what they have in common is dedicated and ambitious leadership that is consistent over many years.

Downtown currently does not have a consistent, compelling product or experience to make the walkable core a day-to-day destination or to entice visitors to stay once they are here.

The “walkable” core is what people mean when they refer to Downtown. When people talk about Downtown, and their negative perceptions of Downtown, they are not talking about the Sports Complex, LaVilla, most of the Southbank or Riverside Avenue – they are talking about the walkable Northbank core of Downtown and the Southbank Riverwalk and Friendship Park, which are easily accessed by pedestrians from the Northbank via the Main Street Bridge and water taxi (see Map 1). This is the “core” referred to in this paper. Similarly, most people consider the Sports Complex, LaVilla and Riverside Avenue/Brooklyn as adjacent neighborhoods that one has to drive to from the core.

Good design – both public and private – is key to a successful retail environment and building a sense of place in Downtown.

In fact, significant progress can be made in the next three years, with an immediate start on inexpensive but strategic initiatives, such as higher maintenance and design standards, regulatory and governance reforms and emphasis on improving the street environment and connectivity.




« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 03:55:56 PM by fieldafm »

fieldafm

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Re: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2010, 03:56:10 PM »
Why is fixing the Landing's parking situation and allowing it an environment to suceed so important?  All we need to do is look at the latest State of Downtown paper put together by DVI and the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission:

Estimated Visits to Downtown by Category
Source: City of Jacksonville Office of Special Events, Downtown Venues, SMG, Visit Jacksonville & Downtown Vision, Inc.
2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

Professional Sports Team Events 939,294 979,708 995,683 1,049,314 887,441
Special Events10 1,271,689 1,945,457 1,353,404 1,480,000 1,509,300
Sports Complex Facilities 961,301 982,417 955,686 945,251 892,203
Theatres & Performing Arts Centers 616,826 644,479 743,521 585,270 505,863
Museums & Galleries 237,481 321,975 284,000 267,374 242,525
The Jacksonville Landing 3,500,000 4,100,000 4,500,000 4,500,000 4,050,000
Main Library N/A 337,855 771,141 807,745 894,182
Nightlife Venues 156,000 256,000 275,000 300,000 300,000
Churches 821,200 821,200 821,200 821,200 821,200
Business 1,435,200 1,435,200 1,435,200 1,435,200 1,435,200
Convention Center 221,530 233,517 227,096 159,554 203,991
Hotels 575,240 587,068 612,959 675,277 643,607
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Total 10,735,761 12,644,876 12,974,890 13,027,357 12,385,512


33% of all 'visits' downtown are the result of the Landing.  Nothing else even comes close.   To allow the quintessential centerpiece of our city to fail, is to allow our community at large to fail.  As DVI so often eloquently quotes our former mayor...

“As Downtown goes, so goes your city. . . . [People] judge
a city on Downtown and it can’t be a ghost town.”
-Jake Godbold

Ocklawaha

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Re: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2010, 05:10:47 PM »


OCKLAWAHA

stjr

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Re: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2010, 06:25:54 PM »
$3.5 million in a historic trust fund and we can't save Fire Station 5 or the Eartha White's 1899 schoolhouse bulldozed by FDOT and 9B?  And, now we are faced with another false choice of historic preservation vs. the Landing's parking?

How about a new road vs. the Landing? or a new road vs. historic preservation? or a new road vs. a street car down Bay Street? or a new road vs. educating our kids?  or a new road vs. almost anything else?  One 5 to 10 mile road project would pay for so many of our other needs with a big impact on many more in our community.  How unbelievable it is that new roads always seem to get funded while almost everything else is subject to sacrifice?  Until this changes, our quality of life will be headed down.

Our politico's and bureaucrats are not serving us well.  And, the voters are not paying enough attention to why we have these issues.
Hey!  Whatever happened to just plain ol' COMMON SENSE!!

kells904

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Re: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2010, 06:48:44 PM »
$3.5 million in a historic trust fund and we can't save Fire Station 5 or the Eartha White's 1899 schoolhouse bulldozed by FDOT and 9B?  And, now we are faced with another false choice of historic preservation vs. the Landing's parking?

How about a new road vs. the Landing? or a new road vs. historic preservation? or a new road vs. a street car down Bay Street? or a new road vs. educating our kids?  or a new road vs. almost anything else?  One 5 to 10 mile road project would pay for so many of our other needs with a big impact on many more in our community.  How unbelievable it is that new roads always seem to get funded while almost everything else is subject to sacrifice?  Until this changes, our quality of life will be headed down.

Our politico's and bureaucrats are not serving us well.  And, the voters are not paying enough attention to why we have these issues.


+1,000,000...

Did anything of substance come out of this city council meeting, or was it just the 3.5 million dollar question being posed?

St. Auggie

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Re: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2010, 08:38:08 PM »
Those pics of Baltimore make Jax look like a joke.  So very sad.

copperfiend

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Re: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2010, 08:51:40 PM »
Those pics of Baltimore make Jax look like a joke.  So very sad.

And those pictures only scratch the surface. But keep in mind that it was not long ago that Baltimore was in much worse shape than we are now.

tufsu1

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Re: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2010, 09:12:58 PM »
exactly...as many have advocated here, Baltimore put a plan together in the early 1970s....the plan involved replacing the aging wharves with a pedestrian promenade along the water (sound familiar?)

The difference is they stuck with the plan and implemented it gradually over the last 30 years....just about every major project (aquarium, harborplace, convention center, science center, baseball stadium, light rail, power plant, football stadium) were built in the inner harbor district....creating a critical mass.

MusicMan

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Re: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2010, 09:40:47 PM »
Downtown Jax did not get to be a disaster overnight, and it can't be fixed overnight either. The only way DT has gotten so screwed up is by decades of neglect, no consistent planing or execution. The Old Money in this town absolutely does not give a Rats behind about downtown. If it did, DT would be awesome. We dump $400 million into one block (new courthouse) and have nothing left over for the entire rest of the city. As for parking, there is a large surface lot directly across the street from The Landing. Who owns that? A 3 story 450 space garage for the Landing right there will do the trick.

thelakelander

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Re: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2010, 09:52:15 PM »
We can't get the city to give $3.5 mill to honor a 23 year old obligation.  Excluding land costs, at something like 20k per parking space to construct a garage, who is going to pony up the cash?
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thelakelander

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Re: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2010, 10:17:54 PM »
Downtown Jax did not get to be a disaster overnight, and it can't be fixed overnight either. The only way DT has gotten so screwed up is by decades of neglect, no consistent planing or execution.

The bad news is we've been at this redevelopment thing just as long as Baltimore and our results are horrible (for reasons mentioned in previous posts above).  However, the good news is, we don't have to wait another 30 years for vibrancy or start over from scratch.  We have great assets (ex. Landing, riverwalks, TU center, the hotels, Bay Street, library, skyway, etc.) already in place.  We can achieve vibrancy pretty quickly if we consolidate our efforts on better connecting and utilizing our existing urban assets within compact areas.  There are enough good and bad examples across the US to select the right redevelopment path to go.  This isn't rocket science.  We just have to accept we have a problem on our hands, open our eyes and start doing the right thing.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 10:20:21 PM by thelakelander »
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Overstreet

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Re: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2010, 11:00:05 PM »
Norfolk's Waterside has a parking garage attached to it.  I know this cause we got "kicked" out of it a few decades ago at closing time.

thelakelander

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Re: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2010, 11:09:59 PM »
I really don't understand why this issue has taken so long to solve in this city.  Are our leaders really that dense?  All it takes is a trip to nearly any regional retail center across the US to see that the majority of successful centers have dedicated parking for their tenants.  What does it really say of our city's chances at revitalizing downtown if we can't work to improve and better integrate downtown's major destination with its immediate surrounding area?
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Mattius92

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Re: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2010, 11:42:14 PM »
I have no idea what our leaders have been doing for the past 30 years, because our DT is just as screwed as it was 30 years ago, and our city is really in need on help now, and we have no money to do it. Isn't that nice.
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mtraininjax

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Re: The Jacksonville Landing: Parking Myths vs. Reality
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2010, 12:00:34 AM »
Quote
creating a critical mass

That sums it up!

Lake - Why is Sleiman bringing up parking at a time when there is no money in the city? What idiot brings it up now? Hasn't he had the property for a few years? Why now? Leverage for something else? I don't think his ethics are in the right place, what with the City employees needing to take 5% paycuts, libraries closing, and services being cut all over the city. Now when the City has a 60 million dollar hole, NOW is the time for him to raise such a stink over parking?

Fact of the matter is he got screwed in his deal with Rouse, and now is taking it out on the City. Who takes over the Landing without a clear definition of parking? He bit off the apple, he knew what he was doing, this was not his first development. He'll find a way out, but now is not the time to go and subsidize 3.5 million in a parking lot. It would be far cheaper to tell him to STICK IT, and run diesel bus trolleys to the spaces available for his patrons.

Its not as if the Landing is a destination to rival SJTC, either. The high end shops have not materialized, not because of parking, but because there is not a critical mass downtown.
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