Inside the Jacksonville Terminal

[Metro Jacksonville]

Inside the Jacksonville Terminal



Now known as the Prime Osborn Convention Center, the Jacksonville Terminal was once the South's largest railroad station.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/522

[big ben]

i've seen union train stations in other cities turned into malls.  usually touristy malls, where most of the stores sell novelty items.  that might be hard to do here. 

[Ocklawaha]

This painting hangs on my wall, the artist and I have a running joke about the little boy at the fence, he swore it was me! I think it is the artist himself, for either of us, skin color makes no difference, so the joke rolls on...

In case you ever wondered how those big white blocks were used? They were part of a system of bumping posts at the end of the stub or "Head Tracks". Several were busted up in the reconstruction, I worked the better part of a day trying to get one of those huge flower pots off the top of one, all I got was a sore back... Yes, I had City permission!
Beautiful Article, I nearly grew up in that place. Even well into the 1960's over 60 trains daily came into our station. What made it so unique to the railroad World was it's breaking down and building up of nearly every train that entered it. A train of 22 passenger cars would pull in from the North or West, often while the sleeping car passengers snored, the switch crews would gingerly cut the train into sections, one for the Florida East Coast to Miami, another perhaps down the Atlantic Coast Line for Orlando and Tampa, and at least one sleeper and a few cars for the old Atlantic Coast Line to Ocala, Leesburg, Trilby and St. Petersburg. The same was true of Southern Railway trains which were sent South on the FEC or ACL. Seaboard Air Line brought theirs in over the "S" line through Springfield, and sent them out either West toward New Orleans or South to Tampa or Miami via Baldwin. But whatever happened, it happened in Jacksonville. The reverse order was in effect for Northbound trains that would be "built" here from the various sections.  

The part you have identified as the "Colored Waiting Room" was really the great patio shed at the rear of the Terminal. The "Colored Waiting Room" was through those doors to the right of the photo. Looking at the building from downtown. The main waiting room was in the center (the high vaulted section) The ticket counters at the North end of the Vaulted room. The "Colored Waiting Room" occupied the entire North wing and had a beautiful entry off of Bay through a rotunda of sorts. It also contained sundry services as did the main waiting room. Race is always a hot button issue, but it is interesting to note that the railroads of Jacksonville (and the South in general) were the pioneers in breaking down the barriers. Passenger Trains were a major investment, and the stupid "separate but equal" Jim Crow laws dictated that every train have a white sleeper and black sleeper, a white coach and a black coach etc... Finally the railroads took their case to the US Courts and the ICC and won approval to do away with those laws on all interstate trains. Soon the "Colored Waiting Rooms" vanished too, and the first step in the Great March had been taken. I have a photo from Jacksonville Terminal of a sign that reads "ANYONE CAN USE THIS RESTROOM REGARDLESS OF RACE OR COLOR".  

The South wing of the building contained woman's and men's "lounge" divided by a hallway with a stained glass arched ceiling. At the South end of the hall was a cafe that served the best breakfast in downtown. All of these let out onto the patio or concourse, at the South end of the building the concourse went down a long ramp into a pedestrian subway. This allowed passengers (Just like Los Angeles) to walk to the proper platform and go up another ramp and onto a platform between the trains. A simple solution to our future Transportation Center Rail Side... Or are we still that smart.  


Oh and that little museum, well I have a marketing study done for the City Trolley Project that says just the "Trolley Museum" and "Operation" alone would bring in 500,000 persons per year... That's 6.5 Superbowls. Toss in a DC-3, 707, Scenic Cruiser and a few rail cars and the numbers would only go up. But then, who needs 6.5 Superbowls Right? SPELL IT LIGHT RAIL JACKSONVILLE!
Ocklawaha

[thelakelander]

Great post, those old pictures are amazing.

[Jason]

Here is the link to the Jacksonville Terminal Railroad Museum website.


http://www.jacksonvilleterminal.com/

[Jason]

Ock, click this link and look at the railway drawing at the top of the page.  All the way to the left is the station with an outline of a "subway" beneath the tracks headed in the Brooklyn direction.  Do you know what that is??

http://www.flarr.com/jtc4.htm

[Ocklawaha]

Yes, Jason, I have some of the signs that once hung inside that "subway". It was/is a wide (maybe 20') tunnel under all of the tracks out to the last gate. between every two tracks, there was a ramp or stairs that brought one up to platform level, often between two trains! We had 29 boarding tracks and about 15 platforms. The platforms were labeled as "gate 1 - ?" Then the tracks labeled 1 - 29. It was easy to find your train, for example gate 8 track 16. The subway had pumps (hidden) that kept the creek out of it. After the depot closed, it flooded with really nasty water and became a toxic waste dump for the homeless. I seem to remember it being done in tile with concrete floors. My understanding is that when they built the new Convention Center on the site (huge mistake) they pushed construction debris into the subway and covered it over. Bottom line, since it was built to hold up the weight of steam locomotives, I don't think it was completely caved in, in fact, it is probably still there, waiting for TC to restore it.  

Ocklawaha

[thelakelander]

Remnants of it still exist.  A few of these images from Mica's DMU demonstration capture pieces of it.

[Jason]

You are a wealth of knowledge Ock.  Thanks!


I'm going to be working on modeling the terminal as it once stood.  Tracks, trains, and all.  The problem is that I'm not able to get downtown much, and was wondering if you or anyone else would be willing to stop by and try to get an up close photo (multiple photos forming a panoramic would be ideal) of the fromt face and side of the building.  There are a few shots floating around the net of the terminal from the skyway that gives a great view of the building as well as some frontals but all are thumbnail size and won't work.  Any help woud be immensely appreciated!

[Jason]

This photo is a good example, but the angle cuts off much of the building and there are too many obstructions.  Perhaps a shot of the main center section and then individual shots of the wings.

[thelakelander]

In the meantime, you can also get detailed images from different angles from the property appraiser's GIS site at coj.net.

[Ocklawaha]

Jason the "Subway" as it was called is marked on this photo for you. If I recall, the big concrete block areas out on the Subway Platforms were not full height, but more like decorative walls around the ramps to keep people from falling down into the darn thing. The Platforms were quite wide. You might see a photo or two of wooden platforms, but these were only temporary or in use for train engine crews, at the far end as trains grew longer during the war effort. Overall, everything was concrete, marble, stone and brick.  




Ocklawaha

[Jason]

In the meantime, you can also get detailed images from different angles from the property appraiser's GIS site at coj.net.

Thanks Lake.

[Jason]

Jason the "Subway" as it was called is marked on this photo for you. If I recall, the big concrete block areas out on the Subway Platforms were not full height, but more like decorative walls around the ramps to keep people from falling down into the darn thing. The Platforms were quite wide. You might see a photo or two of wooden platforms, but these were only temporary or in use for train engine crews, at the far end as trains grew longer during the war effort. Overall, everything was concrete, marble, stone and brick.

I saw quite a few photos of the platforms while googling for photos of the terminal.  I have wondered how they might have provided access to the other platforms.  To me, a tunnel is much neater than an elevated walkway.

[thelakelander]

I spent some time exploring Washington, DC's Union Station earlier today.  Its a place served by the Metro (heavy rail subway), Amtrak (Northeast Corridor), VRE (commuter rail) and MARC (Commuter Rail).  It also has a multiple level shopping mall area with a food court and underground movie theater.  If we can find a way to get the convention center out of our terminal, I think ours can be just as successful.