Author Topic: A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside  (Read 10441 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside
« on: February 09, 2010, 06:11:42 AM »
A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside



Metro Jacksonville highlights the Guiding Principles of the City of Jacksonville's Southeast Vision Plan.


Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-feb-a-vision-for-jacksonvilles-southside

aaapolito

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Re: A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2010, 07:13:26 AM »
That's a great article. 

St. Auggie

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Re: A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2010, 08:49:27 AM »
Ok, so that is awesome.  But my question is HOW do you make it happen?  I get that once mass transit is announced developers buy up land.  But this article, and this whole site for that matter, I always get a sense that this can be done with a "I Dream of Genie" wink and the resources appear to make it happen. I would love for this to happen, looks great, very "big city".  This just looks impossible, and I am told I am an optimist.  Do other cities do it this way, or do they already have the land rights way before development has started?

rjp2008

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Re: A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2010, 09:34:42 AM »
Money and much more people. Less consolidation. I think many locals prefer the small town feel of the area and would resist this kind of bigger city urban development.

Captain Zissou

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Re: A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2010, 09:51:07 AM »
I think a good first step to this plan would be to allocate money more responsibly for smarter, more sustainable development.  River Oaks park really is underutilized.  More money also needs to be allocated to TODs.

The Article Looks Great!!

JeffreyS

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Re: A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2010, 09:52:29 AM »
Money and much more people. Less consolidation. I think many locals prefer the small town feel of the area and would resist this kind of bigger city urban development.
You are right that is a fear here and one of the things we need to educate people about. Adding life to an urban core and some dense development lines enhance surrounding suburban and rural lifestyles. Right now we sprawl suburbia over our rural areas destroying those rural lifestyles. Then the unsustainable of the new sprawl developments devalue the suburban homes that have come before causing suburban blight. If only the newest have elevated value then homes lose their investment value. If we manage our growth to concentrate on urban and infill it is good for all of us.
Lenny Smash

thelakelander

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Re: A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2010, 09:57:28 AM »
We have a billion dollar budget.  We continue to spend money we already have on unsustainable ideas and sprawl producing projects.  What we need is a change in our financial priorities and a promise to actually implement a vision or plan for a change.  We don't have to recreate the wheel.  Just take a look at what sprawlers like Phoenix, Houston, Charlotte and Nashville are doing and apply their successful concepts locally.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Tripoli1711

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Re: A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2010, 10:03:35 AM »
This looks fantastic.  Who put this together?

thelakelander

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Re: A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2010, 10:08:51 AM »
Example:

Goal: You want to develop a starter rail line to start implementing the vision.

Problem: It will cost you around/under $10 million/mile and you don't have the money. You're broke but you have $45 million set aside for an isolated interchange at Atlantic and Kernan Blvds.  

Solution: Improve the intersection with a cheaper at-grade alternative and spend the remaining $35 - 40 million on the design and construction of a basic no-frills 4-5 mile starter rail line.

Result: Foundation for vision plan moves forward without raising taxes.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2010, 10:10:47 AM »
This looks fantastic.  Who put this together?

Zyscovich Architects out of Miami.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

tufsu1

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Re: A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2010, 10:15:05 AM »
Problem: It will cost you around/under $10 million/mile and you don't have the money. You're broke but you have $45 million set aside for an isolated interchange at Atlantic and Kernan Blvds.  

Solution: Improve the intersection with a cheaper at-grade alternative and spend the remaining $35 - 40 million on the design and construction of a basic no-frills 4-5 mile starter rail line.

I don't disagree...but remember that the Better Jax Plan was a compilation of ideas/projects to satisy just about everyone.....sigificant changes to this project may anger folks as much as losing the $100 million for transit ROW....or the increased cost of the courthouse.

Of course the point is moot now that the interchange is open.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 10:18:13 AM by tufsu1 »

thelakelander

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Re: A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2010, 10:24:43 AM »
Don't take it literally, this is an example (a project most are familiar with that I can use to relate cost and strategy) of the discussion that needs to take place.  There seems to be a misconception on the price of projects with things we actually already spend money on that don't deliver the same benefits.  Until we can bridge that link and sell it, the entire idea will tread water locally.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Jason

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Re: A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2010, 11:01:02 AM »
Fantastic article.

There really isn't much money needed to redesign the zoning and land use overlays.  Once that is done, new infill will follow a pedestrian friendly layout naturally.  All that will be necessary then is the implementation of transit corridors (that's where the money comes into play).  We can, however, have more pedestrian friendly nodes and corridors without transit.  Just look at the historic areas we enjoy already.

Captain Zissou

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Re: A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2010, 11:19:09 AM »
Money and much more people. Less consolidation. I think many locals prefer the small town feel of the area and would resist this kind of bigger city urban development.

To me, a dense and smart urban neighborhood feels more small town than SJTC.  The town center just feels like disneyworld or anywhere, USA.  San Marco Square, Avondale, Riverside, and the beach hubs are what feel like small towns, and those are the areas that are beginning to incorporate density (with the exception of Avondale).

thelakelander

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Re: A Vision For Jacksonville's Southside
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2010, 11:19:52 AM »
Good point, Jason.  If we can change the setback requirements in our zoning codes, all new development would have to be built in a more pedestrian friendly manner, which would really help along existing and proposed mass transit corridors.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali