Union Station Neighborhood: Why not Jacksonville?

[Metro Jacksonville]

Union Station Neighborhood: Why not Jacksonville?



With proper planning and a vision, a real transportation center plan emerges from Denver. Is Jacksonville taking notes?

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jan-union-station-neighborhood-why-not-jacksonville

[CS Foltz]

In a word...........NO! This is Jacksonville!

[fsu813]

I saw a piece on PBS's News Hour yesterday evening in which they described the Fast Tracks light-rail program in Denver.

Will this transportation center be involved in that?

Due to the economy, the city doesn't have the funds to complete the project on time (ran over budget, surprise).

The project looked very interesting.

[billy]

It's a great, well done plan.

[tufsu1]

I saw a piece on PBS's News Hour yesterday evening in which they described the Fast Tracks light-rail program in Denver.

Will this transportation center be involved in that?

Yes

[tufsu1]

Intrestingly enough Denver's Union Station was pretty isolated up until about 8 years ago.....like Jacksonville, the station is at the far edge of the CBD.

The difference is that Denver built a new baseball stadium and riverfront park in the area which, in turn, led to new residential and nightlife development....now the gap between the station and the rest of downtown is all but closed.

Can this happen here?  Of course!  But, as has been noted here many times, investment in dwntown Jax. has been scattered around...if we want a transit neighborhood, then we need to focus new devlopment to the area around the proposed transportation center.

[CityLife]

The city owns half of LaVilla, so it wouldn't be difficult for the city to put together a deal with developers for a dense residential neighborhood near the transit center. Doubt we would ever see anything like that under Peyton though...

[exnewsman]

If the Carlton Jones development Bay Street Station comes to fruition, it will be 1-2 blocks away. There will still be several parcels available for additional development in/around the JRTC/convention center.

[Johnny]

We need more parking lots!

[comncense]

Would our signage read "Forsyth Station - Ride by Bus or a Really Fast Bus"?

[Jaxson]

A solid plan for our local transportation that is not married to the car or the plane?  I don't see it happening in our town for the time being...  Unless more of us get heard in city hall!

[stjr]

Denver Union Station will accommodate 12 types of transportation when it is completely built-out; pedestrian traffic, bicycles, taxis, pedicabs, motor vehicles, the 16th street shuttle, the 18th street circulator, RTD regional buses, intercity buses, light rail, commuter rail, and heavy rail.

How many of these types will our proposed transit center handle?  Ours is certainly not friendly to pedestrians, bikes, taxis, pedicabs, and street cars based on current info.  With commuter rail and Amtrak (heavy rail) 3+ blocks walking to other transit modes, can't really say that's "accommodated".

And, funny, I didn't see any notes regarding offices for their transit authority, a traffic control center, state or local road building depts., regional transit planners, or highway patrol (never know when you might have to ticket a speeding train   ).

Most importantly, the entire tone of the Denver project seems to be focused on interconnectivity to the surrounding community, what it can do to foster development, how it can improve livability, its preservation of history and enhancement of aesthetics.  How many of these facets are being considered in connection with our transit center?  Let's just say the lack of thought is clearly evident in the concept comparisons.

One reason for the far superior plan in Denver may be that they seem to be approaching it primarily as a URBAN DEVELOPMENT project, not a transportation project.  As discussed here before, maybe we have the wrong team on our case!

See the Denver team, including Skidmore Owings Merrill, at http://www.unionstationdenver.com/details.aspx# . Compare this expertise to the lowly JTA approach.

Riverfront Park
Riverfront Park in the most basic sense is an ideally located, master planned community in the heart of downtown Denver.

It is a genuine neighborhood where residents who live here know each other, play together, walk their dogs in the park together, dine together, and participate in neighborhood events together. It’s a first-name basis kind of place.

Another city that gets it.  Not having been there, I never considered that Denver straddled the Platte River, a mere pittance compared to the St. Johns!  But, even so, they do have a riverfront park FOR DOWNTOWN RESIDENTS like most, if not all, major cities in the world with access to water.  My point exactly.


Quote from Denver project site:

Public spaces define a development project. Think about it. There are a number of Union Stations throughout the country, and passengers expect timeliness, smooth connections and quality service. It is the aesthetics of a station that is remembered.

Jax will be remembered all right.  For a LACK of aesthetics!

[Johnny]

Would our signage read "Forsyth Station - Ride by Bus or a Really Fast Bus"?

I like it!

[tufsu1]

Denver Union Station will accommodate 12 types of transportation when it is completely built-out; pedestrian traffic, bicycles, taxis, pedicabs, motor vehicles, the 16th street shuttle, the 18th street circulator, RTD regional buses, intercity buses, light rail, commuter rail, and heavy rail.

How many of these types will our proposed transit center handle?

from what I can tell...

at full buildout ours would handle cars/trucks, pedestrians, bicyclists, taxis, downtown trolleys, local bus, express bus, BRT, commuter rail, Greyhound, Skyway, and Streetcar.

So we wold also have 12 tyoes...not bad if you ask me!

[Ocklawaha]

Denver Union Station will accommodate 12 types of transportation when it is completely built-out; pedestrian traffic, bicycles, taxis, pedicabs, motor vehicles, the 16th street shuttle, the 18th street circulator, RTD regional buses, intercity buses, light rail, commuter rail, and heavy rail.

How many of these types will our proposed transit center handle?

from what I can tell...

at full buildout ours would handle cars/trucks, pedestrians, bicyclists, taxis, downtown trolleys, local bus, express bus, BRT, commuter rail, Greyhound, Skyway, and Streetcar.

So we wold also have 12 tyoes...not bad if you ask me!

Has anyone considered:


Wouldn't the PCT's look great as a South Atlantic Reef?

Making a reef out of the Potato-Chip-Truck-Thinks-It's-A-Trolley (PCT TROLLEYS) would bump us back down to 11, but the plague and blight on the city's image would be forever removed!

Once the Times Union Moves out of it's current digs, McCoy's Creek can be "daylighted" and channeled so our water taxi's could tie up at a small basin and platform on the South Side of Amtrak/Commuter Rail at Jacksonville Terminal.

That makes it 12 again...


Even OCK would want to ride in this 1921 Graham, THE BUS that introduced a novel idea... glass windows!

Replace one core downtown PCT route with VINTAGE BUSES and we suddenly become the "hero" system of the entire highway world... Not to mention that we could become the only operating arm of the National Bus Museum. http://www.busmuseum.org/

That makes it 13...



Take the other 3 longest PCT routes and convert them to TRUE TROLLEY BUS, with potential extensions on limited BRT lanes toward area's not currently suited for streetcar.  San Jose Blvd, Blanding, Riverside, University, etc... all come to mind for study.

That makes it 14...



Light Rail alongside FEC, from the station to Beach Blvd, hence, all the way to the beaches, would finally give us back the old railroad that St. Elmo Acosta wanted to convert to "trolleys" back in the late 1920's. He too angered the wrong people and got jailed for giving a widow a sack of "CITY OWNED POTATO'S", his plan was shelved and we are still waiting for it to come up again in Council. We did of course name the bridge with the Skyway in it after him!

That makes it 15...




I would also scrap the current "Express Bus" routes, and create a whole new "JTA REGIONAL" motor coach service.  Absolutely first class in every respect, Broadband/Wifi, Satellite Radio, TV, Restroom, electrical outlet, tables with facing seats, LEATHER, coffee/snack bar/print station, news tickers...

Amtrak, Greyhound and La Cubana, would all have regional services hubed out of Jacksonville Terminal, with state, dual state, or local support.

But who the hell am I?

"Once I built a railroad, I made it run
I made it run against time
Once I built a railroad, and now it's done
Buddy, can you spare a dime?"

OCKLAWAHA