Author Topic: DT roads going to two-way  (Read 3134 times)

Charles Hunter

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Re: DT roads going to two-way
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2020, 05:18:39 PM »

That’s a lot of money to just change signs...


It's a lot more than just changing signs. You've got to repave, re-stripe, install new traffic signals, reconfigure pavement markings on adjacent roadways, AND change signs.

Will probably include at least a minor resurfacing, as it is the easiest way to get rid of existing pavement markings.  A minor resurfacing is what the City usually does - only take the very top off the existing pavement (if anything is taken off) and add a thin layer of paving.  FDOT typcially does a full "mill and resurface" where they take several inches of paving off, often down to the base, and then replace the pavement; this gets rid of any structural problems in the roadway, instead of just covering them over.

The article doesn't say if the DIA plan is for the full length of Adams and Forsyth - all the way from Myrtle Avenue on the west to Liberty Street on the east.  The part of Adams east of Liberty will have to remain one-way, due to the (soon to be truncated) Hart Xway ramp coming down to ground at Liberty.

Wonder if they will ask FDOT to cover the cost of the necessary changes at the intersections with Main Street and Ocean Street?  Shouldn't be very expensive, just some signs - the pavement markings will just change on Adams and Forsyth, so the City should cover that.

thelakelander

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Re: DT roads going to two-way
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2020, 10:26:36 PM »
Awesome, but I wouldn’t start with these two. I’d start with Hogan and Julia. But, these should definitely be done.

Hogan is going to be converted into the Emerald Trail. From what I understand that project is being budgeted for FY21. One lane will be converted into a trail/cycle track, making Hogan a one lane, one way northbound corridor.
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Charles Hunter

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Re: DT roads going to two-way
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2020, 09:08:07 AM »

That’s a lot of money to just change signs...


It's a lot more than just changing signs. You've got to repave, re-stripe, install new traffic signals, reconfigure pavement markings on adjacent roadways, AND change signs.

Will probably include at least a minor resurfacing, as it is the easiest way to get rid of existing pavement markings.  A minor resurfacing is what the City usually does - only take the very top off the existing pavement (if anything is taken off) and add a thin layer of paving.  FDOT typcially does a full "mill and resurface" where they take several inches of paving off, often down to the base, and then replace the pavement; this gets rid of any structural problems in the roadway, instead of just covering them over.

The article doesn't say if the DIA plan is for the full length of Adams and Forsyth - all the way from Myrtle Avenue on the west to Liberty Street on the east.  The part of Adams east of Liberty will have to remain one-way, due to the (soon to be truncated) Hart Xway ramp coming down to ground at Liberty.

Wonder if they will ask FDOT to cover the cost of the necessary changes at the intersections with Main Street and Ocean Street?  Shouldn't be very expensive, just some signs - the pavement markings will just change on Adams and Forsyth, so the City should cover that.

I need to correct myself.  The intersections of Adams/Main, Adams/Ocean, Forsyth/Main, and Forsyth/Ocean will need new traffic signals.  An opportunity for 'cost sharing' with FDOT?  Also, Forsyth and Adams are part of SR 228 between Main Street and the Hart Ramps. Although, once the Hart ramps by the stadium get Lenny-ized, the State Road designation for some part of the Hart system in the downtown/stadium area will be removed.  It is unclear what the limits of the gap will be.

FlaBoy

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Re: DT roads going to two-way
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2020, 02:11:16 PM »
Adams is a great conversion. I would phase in Forsythe though especially in the CBD. It will be an absolute mess for awhile during rush hour if Forsythe and Adams get a full remake.

Kerry

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Re: DT roads going to two-way
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2020, 03:57:01 PM »
Not sure what the City has in mind, but when OKC returned all their downtown streets to two-way it cost $140 million.  To widen the sidewalks took a lot of utility relocation (can't have a storm drain right in the middle of the sidewalk or plant trees where the electric lines run).  I don't know what other cities have spent.
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Steve

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Re: DT roads going to two-way
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2020, 04:58:39 PM »
Not sure what the City has in mind, but when OKC returned all their downtown streets to two-way it cost $140 million.  To widen the sidewalks took a lot of utility relocation (can't have a storm drain right in the middle of the sidewalk or plant trees where the electric lines run).  I don't know what other cities have spent.

While that number seems high at first glance, I could conceivably see that....especially if there was major work on connecting roadways like interstate ramps, etc. It also sounds like they did some sidewalk work along with it.

I'm curious if the $5M number holds. To me it seems like Forsyth and Adams aren't the most complex of the downtown streets but they have some complexity, namely the ramps at either end of both streets (Hart ramps should go if you're tearing down the rest of the expressway but that's another conversation).

thelakelander

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Re: DT roads going to two-way
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2020, 05:20:11 PM »
Not sure what the City has in mind, but when OKC returned all their downtown streets to two-way it cost $140 million.  To widen the sidewalks took a lot of utility relocation (can't have a storm drain right in the middle of the sidewalk or plant trees where the electric lines run).  I don't know what other cities have spent.
That sounds like a streetscape. I don't believe moving curb and gutter is something that will be extensively done to two-way streets in downtown.
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Kerry

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Re: DT roads going to two-way
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2020, 08:29:37 PM »
Not sure what the City has in mind, but when OKC returned all their downtown streets to two-way it cost $140 million.  To widen the sidewalks took a lot of utility relocation (can't have a storm drain right in the middle of the sidewalk or plant trees where the electric lines run).  I don't know what other cities have spent.
That sounds like a streetscape. I don't believe moving curb and gutter is something that will be extensively done to two-way streets in downtown.

It was a complete make-over from building facade to building facade.
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thelakelander

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Re: DT roads going to two-way
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2020, 08:59:56 PM »
For $140 million it would have to be. I think the Jax thing will most likely involve milling and resurfacing, restriping and modifying related signalization. That can be done relatively cheap but won't deliver the same type of benefits as a complete streetscaping project.
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thelakelander

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Re: DT roads going to two-way
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2020, 08:37:35 AM »
Also, Forsyth and Adams are part of SR 228 between Main Street and the Hart Ramps. Although, once the Hart ramps by the stadium get Lenny-ized, the State Road designation for some part of the Hart system in the downtown/stadium area will be removed.  It is unclear what the limits of the gap will be.

From my understanding, SR 228 west of where MLK Parkway ties into the Hart Bridge, will be transferred to COJ.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali