Author Topic: A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville  (Read 5859 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville
« on: September 18, 2009, 05:32:17 AM »
A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville



Metro Jacksonville shares a vision of what the Prime Osborn and the surrounding land can become if converted into a compact intermodal transportation center.


Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-sep-a-vision-for-transit-in-jacksonville

vicupstate

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Re: A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2009, 05:56:11 AM »
Great article and Superior idea.

Elaine Brown has been the driving force behind doing the Transportation Center to begin with.  I would try to get her buy-in first of all.

As the elections gear up, I would ask the mayoral/council candidates if they will publicly support this idea. The degree of their buy-in coud be the basis for a Metro Jacksonville endorsement at the proper time.

The first big hurdle will be getting buy-in on a alternative location for the convention center.
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Lucasjj

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Re: A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2009, 07:45:41 AM »
In all the talks of the convention center moving, are there any suggested places other than the current courthouse property? If not, then what kind of time table would you be looking at to relocate the convention center to the current courthouse property?

BridgeTroll

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Re: A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2009, 08:01:44 AM »
The most logical spot for the new convention center would be the site of the old courthuse facilities on Bay St.  The convention center would or could be connected to the Hyatt.  This would spur growth of night clubs and eateries along the Bay street corridor.  The Metro Jax plan for the Prime Osborn location has the additional advantage of being located at the confluence of I-10 and I-95.  This location should also spur growth for the La Villa area.

This is not just a win-win... it is a win for everybody!
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fsu813

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Re: A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2009, 08:09:19 AM »
yup

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Re: A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2009, 10:35:23 AM »
Great idea(s) and I wholeheartedly agree with both propositions and plans; but question:  Could we go on with the renovation of the existing Convention Center back to a Central Terminal before the new Convention Center is built?  I would think that we must have a new Convention Center open, or at least a new one in the planning stage and/or on paper before renovation of the old one back to a transportation terminal begins.

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Steve

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Re: A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2009, 10:53:58 AM »
^not necessarily, as long as it quickly followed.  I would question how much of an economic impact the exising facility has, considering that it has been relegated to hosting trade shows and such.

PhanLord

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Re: A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2009, 11:32:35 AM »
How about moving convention center to south bank (JEA/School Board Area) ?

aaapolito

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Re: A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2009, 01:47:53 PM »
This city needs to make up its mind as to whether it wants to become a first tier city or remain a middle of the road town with an shaky identity.

ralpho37

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Re: A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2009, 02:27:13 PM »
Everyone might find this interesting...

This morning I sent an e-mail to the City Council asking them to take a look at this article.  A few minutes ago I received an e-mail from Councilman John Crescimbeni, asking me to clarify several points.

1)  He claims he did not see any plans on the MetroJacksonville website, which seems strange to me considering I provided him with the link.

2)  He asked if MetroJacksonville is proposing to "demolish the facility," and asked if that is the case, where the city would host "events requiring extensive exhibition space."

I am not sure why the link wouldn't work, but I will try my best to clarify the points that are made in the article here.  At least we've caught their attention!  I'll let yall know of any further developments.

ralpho37

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Re: A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2009, 03:41:21 PM »
Okay help me out here people...  Mr. Crescimbeni wrote me back and told me that he read the article.  Here's what he asked me and I could use some help on what to answer back...

1)  Am I to conclude that "refit" for Amtrak is synonymous with "demolition" of existing Convention Center
exhibition space?

2)  Where would you propose that events requiring extensive exhibition space be held?"  If you are proposing to demolish exhibition space, your tweaking of the JTA Mater Plan had best include an answer to that question as
well - or I wouldn't consider it a viable one.

I assume that the answer to #1 is yes, but he brings up a good point.  If I understand correctly, our plan seeks to do away with the convention center space and build a new convention center.  This is no small undertaking.  What do yall suggest I say back to him?  Just a blunt "yes, do away with the convention space and give it to Amtrak/retail?"  "Build all of this in phases and construct a new convention center when the existing exhibition space is gone?"  Or am I missing a key component of this proposal?  Please give me some help here, I'm kind of stuck.  Thanks!

ralpho37

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Re: A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2009, 03:52:41 PM »
Thanks, I've also been doing some research on our past articles.  I think I can provide him with a good answer.

thelakelander

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Re: A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2009, 05:19:44 PM »
when I get to my hotel in DC, i'll provide a detailed answer to this question.
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Ocklawaha

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Re: A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2009, 10:08:09 PM »
The most historic, interesting, and just plain cool spot to send the Convention Center, is to the old Ford Plant on the River, just north of the Matthews Bridge. But one would have to raze almost all of Comodore Point - Stadium Area to allow unobstructed access.  The logical spot for a convention center is in the CENTER of the downtown core. Walkable, active, venues, hotels, and our fabulous bridges and Riverwalk by night. Removing the current Courthouse complex, would allow us to nest the Convention Center right on the waterfront, snug to the Hyatt as well as other downtown night spots.

In my first draft of the plan, on the back of a napkin at Hola's Restaurant, we would only preserve a fraction of the current exhibit space, and recycle it along the concourse we have labeled as ,"The Mall".  The exhibit hall wouldn't be a complete loss, as we would recycle the Northern most 1/4 of the building as intercity bus terminal, Greyhound, Trailways, Jefferson, Carolina, La Cubana, Auto Bus, could all be attracted to such a facility.

A red flag should go up when the current rendering is shown from McCoys Creek looking Northwest and labeled "Proposed Amtrak Terminal." There are a few adjustments being made for this building a new "Amtrak" wing on the south end of the Terminal. In one swoop we'd wreck the historical facade a national treasure, The overhead concourse blights the visual spaces.


Tropical storm and severe flood damage when Jacksonville Terminals tracks were in the flood plain. About 100 years ago we solved this problem by building a tunnel system, then bringing in millions of cubic yards of fill dirt. Today the combined genius of FDOT, JTA and USDOT as well as AMTRAK, can't see anything wrong with this picture. There is one official group that is on this case though, the FRA has suggested privately that this may be an illegal safety hazard.

Worst of all, to get under the new Lee Street Viaduct the entire rail yard for Amtrak and Commuter Rail would be BELOW the government Flood Plain! One of the "engineer/planners" told me, "Not a problem, we're going to place all of the tracks (3-4 of them only) inside a concrete tub with a flood gate. Just like New Orleans!"

The only REAL solution to the clearance problem with the Lee Street Viaduct is to remove and reconstruct it or engineer a way to raise it 10 to 20 feet.


OCKLAWAHA

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Re: A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2009, 09:03:30 AM »
First of all, fantastic article. The way it's written and formatted will make it very accessible to those who aren't a part of the MetJax choir that I would imagine makes up most of the readers for the average article.

Unfortunately, I think the city would have to have, a the very least, construction started on a new convention facility before converting the prime osborn. I'm not sure how that works with JTA's current schedule for the transit center, but I imagine it would push things back at least 3-5 years. I agree, I doesn't seem like the prime osborn brings in much business, but we need to prove that factually first (a comparison with the hyatt would be fantastic, especially if we could prove there were enough openings in the hyatt's schedule to accommodate whatever business would be lost in the transition period to a new convention center).  Ultimately, the city is going to see every event at the prime osborn as revenue at a time when revenue is tough to come by. Could we make the arguement that a new convention center would bring in additional business?  I just don't see city leaders jumping on board a plan that would leave us without a convention center and, as a result, with no way to access the lucritive market of conventions, even if the prime osborn is in itself a hinderance to attracting conventions, which we could argue. 

Plus, given how long it took for construction to start on the courthouse, I think we would have to have construction on a new convention center before the city would be willng to release the prime osborn back to it's intended purpose!