Author Topic: JTA Skyway Riverside Extension  (Read 59523 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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JTA Skyway Riverside Extension
« on: July 20, 2009, 06:02:52 AM »
JTA Skyway Riverside Extension



No one knows when or if it will ever happen, but the land has been set aside for a possible extension of the Skyway to serve Blue Cross Blue Shield, Fidelity, and Everbank.


Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jul-jta-skyway-riverside-extension

David

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Re: JTA Skyway Riverside Extension
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2009, 08:44:03 AM »
I see there's a "San Marco Trolley 2009?" Proposal in there. Is there any new development on that?

They really need to do this part of the skyway extension, it would boost ridership immensely.

GideonGlib

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Re: JTA Skyway Riverside Extension
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2009, 09:39:14 AM »
This leg would be smart, taking it all the way down to 5 points (perhaps under/alongside the  I-95 right of way), and to the Stadium/Metro Park would be even smarter if they really want to boost ridership.

archiphreak

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Re: JTA Skyway Riverside Extension
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2009, 10:25:10 AM »
2 stations 1/2 mile apart?  What the hell kind of planning is that?!  1/2 mile = 2,640 feet or less than 900 yards.  And does it actually connect to the rest of the functioning skyway or is this just another way to bring people from one place they don't want to go to another place they don't want to go?
Don't get me wrong, I am all for the skyway, mass transit, rail, whatever.  I lived in D.C. and LOVED not having a car.  But this is insane!  MILLIONS OF DOLLARS on a system that they WANT to fail so they can point a finger and say "see told you it wouldn't work.  now we have to build more highways cause that's what people want."  Ugh, this is so frustrating.

thelakelander

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Re: JTA Skyway Riverside Extension
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2009, 10:39:09 AM »
It would connect to the existing system by utilizing existing track at the O&M facility.  I don't think any estimates have been given.  At this point, its just a conceptual plan identifying the route of a future Riverside Avenue extension.  However, it would be good to make sure whatever is planned, is well integrated with other transit modes.  For example, if the plan is to construct a skyway extension down Riverside Avenue, this line and future streetcar plans should tie in together to make sure they aren't competing for the same riders.
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Dapperdan

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Re: JTA Skyway Riverside Extension
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2009, 10:45:14 AM »
2 stations 1/2 mile apart?  What the hell kind of planning is that?!  1/2 mile = 2,640 feet or less than 900 yards.  And does it actually connect to the rest of the functioning skyway or is this just another way to bring people from one place they don't want to go to another place they don't want to go?
Don't get me wrong, I am all for the skyway, mass transit, rail, whatever.  I lived in D.C. and LOVED not having a car.  But this is insane!  MILLIONS OF DOLLARS on a system that they WANT to fail so they can point a finger and say "see told you it wouldn't work.  now we have to build more highways cause that's what people want."  Ugh, this is so frustrating.

The two stops are necessary as there are two main areas they are focusing on there. The first one appears to be across from Haskel and the YMCA building and this would more be for future developement in the Brooklyn Park area. It is kind of like the Jefferson Station Now.

The one behind Johny's will be the one that services all the office towers there, and could maybe service the Art Market if you don't mind walking a bit. I think they are both good stops and smart planning.

Ocklawaha

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Re: JTA Skyway Riverside Extension
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2009, 10:59:13 AM »
I agree that the stadium line would blow the socks off the ridership. Passing through new buildings and connectivity to the whole of downtown would make this a no brainer. Stations need 2 elevated floors with a ground, mid level and top level. A Skywalk should connect these 2Nd floors to various buildings in the core. Just imagine if First Baptist had a Skyway into Rosa Parks transfer station. Can you imagine the sports TV shots of our Skyway coming into the 2Nd floor of our football stadium? This would be public relations of the grandest kind and we would be the envy of every other City in the NFL.

The Brooklyn/Riverside extension with the Skyway hidden behind Blue Cross may not be the best route. Aim it at Riverside Drive and put the station at midblock in the median. Next connect these buildings to the Skyway in a manner that nobody gets wet, frozen or hit by lightning.

David: The San Marco PCT did run for a shot time into the San Marco core. It connected on the north end with other transit. The trouble they ran into is the Florida East Coast transfer trains made it lose its schedule and employers were furious that the employees of various shops couldn't get back from lunch hour in a timely manner, blocked by trains. BTW The earliest history I have found for the City Of South Jacksonville has proved the railroad crossings have been a problem since incorporation. There is even legal actions where the City of South Jax tried to force an overpass or underpass. This started in the 1920's and it's still relevent today. We don't need the PCT fleet trying to be either a streetcar or a Skyway. We need the Skyway to meet the buses, and/or streetcars as well as Amtrak at Atlantic and the Florida East Coast crossing, on the WEST side of the tracks, with a walkover to the east side.


Quote
Posted on: Today at 10:25:10 AMPosted by: archiphreak  
Insert Quote
2 stations 1/2 mile apart?  What the hell kind of planning is that?!  1/2 mile = 2,640 feet or less than 900 yards.  And does it actually connect to the rest of the functioning skyway or is this just another way to bring people from one place they don't want to go to another place they don't want to go?
Don't get me wrong, I am all for the skyway, mass transit, rail, whatever.  I lived in D.C. and LOVED not having a car.  But this is insane!  MILLIONS OF DOLLARS on a system that they WANT to fail so they can point a finger and say "see told you it wouldn't work.  now we have to build more highways cause that's what people want."  Ugh, this is so frustrating.


Don't worry - be happy archiphreak...
The Skyway links most certainly are to be connected to the whole system. Think of the Skyway as a horizontal elevator, the original system was planned and built as a people mover and some still call it that today. When we switched to TRUE monorail, the expansion boundary's expanded many times. Even so it is NOT a rapid transit system, however it IS an intra-city fixed transit system. Half mile stops are fine as the Skyway should scoop up the inbound passengers from Amtrak, Commuter Rail, River Taxi, BRT, JTA and Streetcars. The passengers on the Skyway would feed other transit modes, and depending on the time of day those stops should be busy. The same people who ride the Riverside "PCT bus THING" will pack the Skyway. Also FYI, I am the guy who told the mayor, jta, newspapers and TV that it WILL NOT WORK. Nobody listened, even though I made enough noise to be interview on "Good Morning America." From that point forward, JTA has seen me as an enemy. NOT TRUE! I AM a transit guy and I now believe since we have the Skyway in spite of my best efforts, then lets make it the best little Monorail this side of Disney (worlds largest and most traveled Monorail system). If anyone could point that finger it would be me, but you see as a realist, we have it and lets make it sing.



OCKLAWAHA
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 11:00:56 AM by Ocklawaha »

thelakelander

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Re: JTA Skyway Riverside Extension
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2009, 11:12:20 AM »
Quote
Passing through new buildings and connectivity to the whole of downtown would make this a no brainer. Stations need 2 elevated floors with a ground, mid level and top level.

Something like this?  A few images from Downtown Detroit last week.





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fsu813

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Re: JTA Skyway Riverside Extension
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2009, 11:15:34 AM »
what a colosal waste. some form of street care would be much less expensive and morfe popular.

TheProfessor

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Re: JTA Skyway Riverside Extension
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2009, 11:24:40 AM »
They need to leave the Skyway as is.  It has not worked in the past and its elevated piers/tracks are visual blight.  New forms of transport are more viable and cost effective.  It would be unattractive to run the skyway right in front of all the future architecture along riverside avenue.  Ground level transport is more attractive and user friendly.

tufsu1

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Re: JTA Skyway Riverside Extension
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2009, 11:39:20 AM »
2 stations 1/2 mile apart?  What the hell kind of planning is that?!  1/2 mile = 2,640 feet or less than 900 yards. 

Most modern rail transit systems (light rail/subways) have stops every mile or two...commuter rail stops are 2-10 miles apart....but circulators (like the Skyway) have stops every 1/4 - 1/2 mile.

Remember that the average person is willing to walk no more than 1/3 of a mile to get to transit.

lindab

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Re: JTA Skyway Riverside Extension
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2009, 11:43:22 AM »
Prof, you said it all.

Ocklawaha

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Re: JTA Skyway Riverside Extension
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2009, 11:46:09 AM »
Exactly Lake, the top and bottom photos are what makes Detroit's system so attractive. Add to the Detroit system the fact that it is TRUE ELECTRIC RAIL, on steel wheels, and their people mover becomes something like the Vancouver Sky Train.

Leaving it alone is the worst of all options, it's like saying your child broke it's leg in the park. The leg is already broken, so do we leave it alone or fix it? As is our Skyway has been the brunt of at least two INTERNATIONAL news specials with titles such as "What if they built a transit system and nobody came." I got hammered in Colombia the day after that TV show, every person at the railroad was laughing and saying "That's Roberts Transit Line." I nearly had to make death threats to get them to stop laughing. Lets fix it NOW!

So we either have the worlds largest monument to transportation stupidity, or the most connected monorail in the world. Visual blight? This is a showpiece in downtown Jacksonville. If we can get it up and over the new I-95 and down to San Marco + Stadium + Riverside it would completely turn around. We might actually have to order those center cars that JTA gave me the plans for. Imagine Joe Executive driving to Disney from New York, the company is thinking of relocation and he is thinking Orlando. As he rolls through town to the Bay Meadows, Best Western, he is always scoping out locations. The kids in the back seat are watching a Disney video, as they pass the sea of neon downtown. "Wow, what a beautiful City," he exclaims as they cross the Fuller Warren. His wife instantly agrees with him. "Oh look, what is THAT," the wife nearly shouts, as a 4 car Skyway train rolls past above their heads. "That is the coolest thing I have ever seen!" He pulls off and circles back to get a better look. THAT'S when he hears the gong of a streetcar and the horn on the Amtrak Corridor train. Off in the distance he see's the stadium lights, as the crowd roars to life, "TOUCHDOWN JACKSONVILLE," SOLD!


OCKLAWAHA
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 11:49:18 AM by Ocklawaha »

hanjin1

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Re: JTA Skyway Riverside Extension
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2009, 12:05:35 PM »
I'm not a big fan of the skyway either. Even if it was extended, I still wouldn't ride it. I get your point of the kid's broken leg, but he needs his legs to walk. We don't need the skyway to go anywhere. I could just ride the bus or ride a bike. I would ride a vintage trolley system though. Something about it just seems cool.

Ocklawaha

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Re: JTA Skyway Riverside Extension
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2009, 12:16:16 PM »
Just 11 game days would double the annual ridership. Currently hovering at about 390,000 per year, to perhaps 720,000. These numbers consider the Skyway at capacity for one hour before and after each game. This is interesting because there are a lot more venues downtown then simply the Jaguars.

OCKLAWAHA