Author Topic: Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009  (Read 9833 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009
« on: July 15, 2009, 05:26:15 AM »
Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009



For much of its history, Indianapolis oriented itself around government and industry, particularly manufacturing. Today, Indianapolis has a much more diversified economy, contributing to the fields of education, health care, and finance. Tourism is also a vital part of the economy of Indianapolis, and the city plays host to numerous conventions and sporting events.

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http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jul-elements-of-urbanism-indianapolis-2009

Hurricane

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Re: Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2009, 07:30:39 AM »
I grew up just outside of Indy.  It isa great city.  My regret is that we lived 45 minutes from downtown, so I never really got to experience the true city.  I'm surprised that you didn't cover Broad Ripple.  They've got about 50 bars within 2 blocks and everyone under 35 lives within walking distance.  The Broad Ripple area is awesome!

zoo

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Re: Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2009, 07:57:36 AM »
What strikes me is the effective design and management of their park system, including Canal Walk, and the amazing amount of public art (and some of the architecture fits into that category, as well). Last time I visited, to see the result of strong leadership that listens to its citizenry, almost made me pity Jax. Putting the two side by side, Indianapolis would clearly be a more vibrant, effectively-run city with optimized assets and healthy private engagement (corporate).

Two questions related to what I believe are key comparative factors, what are the educational assets in the downtown area, and what is the tax rate?

Were it not for the weather and the beach, I'd move there in a minute...

fsujax

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Re: Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2009, 08:08:06 AM »
What strikes me is the stark difference in Downtown activity. How can their Downtown be so vibrant? and ours so dead? I know I am going to get the usual it's FBC's fault, but I think its more than that. Also, I do not believe Indy has any sort of major rail transit...i.e streetcar, LRT or commuter rail. I could be wrong, i am sure I will be corrected if I am. It would be good to do an in depth case study to compare Downtown Indy with Downtown Jax and try to figure out why our Downtown is so far behind. I would like to see someone at MetroJax take this and run with it.

thelakelander

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Re: Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2009, 09:16:49 AM »
I grew up just outside of Indy.  It isa great city.  My regret is that we lived 45 minutes from downtown, so I never really got to experience the true city.  I'm surprised that you didn't cover Broad Ripple.  They've got about 50 bars within 2 blocks and everyone under 35 lives within walking distance.  The Broad Ripple area is awesome!

Broad Ripple is a nice area.  Unfortunately, my time in Indy this go around was pretty limited, so I did not get out to many neighborhoods.  However, the 2007 Indianapolis tour did include a little information on Broad Ripple.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-jan-roadtrip-indianapolis

What strikes me is the stark difference in Downtown activity. How can their Downtown be so vibrant? and ours so dead? I know I am going to get the usual it's FBC's fault, but I think its more than that. Also, I do not believe Indy has any sort of major rail transit...i.e streetcar, LRT or commuter rail. I could be wrong, i am sure I will be corrected if I am. It would be good to do an in depth case study to compare Downtown Indy with Downtown Jax and try to figure out why our Downtown is so far behind. I would like to see someone at MetroJax take this and run with it.

I'll take a stab at it.  Three words: Connectivity, Compactivity and Clustering.  Downtown Indianapolis has a ton of complementing uses that are directly adjacent to each other.  Because of this, its easy for various uses to stimulate pedestrian traffic between each other, which in turn, creates opportunity for complementary accessory uses (restaurants, specialty retail, bars, etc.) to fill in the small gaps, assuming there are buildings for them to go into.  From that point, its a snow ball effect, in regards to vibrancy.

For example, if you're in town for a convention or sporting event, within a two or three block radius, there are a number of hotels, restaurants, bars, museums and even a shopping mall.  Come in to Jacksonville and that same distance from the convention center or sports complex consists of parking lots, a few isolated buildings and overgrown lots where buildings once stood.

The aerials say it all:

Downtown Indianapolis


Downtown Jacksonville


Going back to Jax, you mentioned FBC.  If that area of downtown is to be successful, the city needs to work with FBC to make their buildings and interior uses more integrated with the outdoor environment around them.  I'm not familar with the interior uses or their locations within each building, but better integration could include:

- Sidewalk window displays of the church's history or works along sidewalks with dead space.

- Letting the public use the proposed main street recreational park during times when it is not being used by FBC.

- Accomodating limited retail space in the corners of some of the garages.  This could generate revenue for the church and put people on the sidewalks in that area.

- Improve the visual quality and appeal of existing retail oriented storefronts, like the Christian Bookstore.

- Relocate church's cafeteria to a location that can be seen from the street, that can also accomodate sidewalk dining.

- Banners or something to soften the hard edge the church's buildings have along Union Street.

- Consider opening the original church building up as a museum during hours when not in use by the church.  Its an architectural landmark with a significant past that has helped shaped the downtown environment we have today.

There are a lot of other things that can be done, but the points mentioned above are just a few examples of ways to better integrate the church into the surrounding urban core.  Short of relying on major projects, which the city can't afford, similar small projects can be done like this throughout the Northbank which will help stimulate synergy and pedestrian movement between existing uses.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 09:19:19 AM by thelakelander »
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vicupstate

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Re: Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2009, 09:17:18 AM »
Picking up on fsujax's comment, Indy and Jax are closely related to each other in terms of size, consolidation, being a center of business for it's state, smaller-sized NFL market, etc.   

I also agree that FBC is a lame, 'crutch' excuse that needs to be put in it's true perspective. 

A more in-depth analysis/comparision between the two cities would be interesting, but the gist of it would be this: Jax has not utilized good master planning and good urban design in what it has done.  Each project from the Landing to the convention center to the sports complex to the Riverwalks to the Main Street pocket park, have all been as if they are stand alone projects with no thought given to the interactions between projects, the immediate surroundings of each or what the completed 'environment'  should be or look like.   

I've always considered Indy, Charlotte, Nashville, Orlando, Norfolk and Austin to be the truest 'peer' cities to Jacksonville. 
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Jason

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Re: Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2009, 09:26:52 AM »
Its amazing how similar the two cities are (by the numbers).

IMO, the only three major advantages Indy has over Jax is that Indy is a state capitol, has much less in state competition from neighboring cities, and has a lot more of its historic building stock intact.

Downtwon Jax has endured a serious string of bad luck since the 60's including white flight, the boom of the burbs, and the explosive growth in Central and South Florida providing some seriously stiff competition.  Despite all that has pulled against this city, we are still a major metropolitan area with a steady growth rate and a strong diverse economy.   IMO, Indy looks today like Jax will look in 7-10 years.

thelakelander

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Re: Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2009, 09:27:18 AM »
^I agree, Vic.  All of those places have more vibrant downtowns because thought has been given to how individual projects interact with their immediate surroundings (ie. connectivity).  When we carry out a good plan that embraces urban design, the amount of money we spend on implementing it won't matter.  The largest visual change will come from the placement and outward design of those uses so that they have a positive impact on the immediate environment around them.
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thelakelander

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Re: Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2009, 09:33:42 AM »
Its amazing how similar the two cities are (by the numbers).

IMO, the only three major advantages Indy has over Jax is that Indy is a state capitol, has much less in state competition from neighboring cities, and has a lot more of its historic building stock intact.

On the other hand, Jax has a major port, less regional competition (Chicago, Cincinnati, Dayton, Louisville all around 2 hours away), a major river downtown and a beach.  We just have to better utilize our assets.

Quote
Downtwon Jax has endured a serious string of bad luck since the 60's including white flight, the boom of the burbs, and the explosive growth in Central and South Florida providing some seriously stiff competition.  Despite all that has pulled against this city, we are still a major metropolitan area with a steady growth rate and a strong diverse economy.   IMO, Indy looks today like Jax will look in 7-10 years.

The funny thing is, just about every city Jacksonville's size has had to deal with the exact same issues.  We've also spent just as much money in our core over the years as they have.  The major difference being what Vic pointed out.  Our projects not being design to fit in with their immediate surroundings.  No matter how much money we spend, if we don't follow a good urban master plan or strategy, things will remain the same.
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heights unknown

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Re: Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2009, 10:38:26 AM »
Though Indianapolis seems to be a bit more successful and prosperous, both these cities have more in common than it appears, and it's almost like looking at parallel mirror cities.  Both are consolidated cities, consolidated at about the same time, and I can't help but wonder which City has been more successful with consolidation.  Does anyone know whether the 830 feet for their tallest building includes those antennaes?  Nice looking city and the downtown seems more filled and dense than ours.

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heights unknown

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Re: Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2009, 10:43:25 AM »
^I agree, Vic.  All of those places have more vibrant downtowns because thought has been given to how individual projects interact with their immediate surroundings (ie. connectivity).  When we carry out a good plan that embraces urban design, the amount of money we spend on implementing it won't matter.  The largest visual change will come from the placement and outward design of those uses so that they have a positive impact on the immediate environment around them.

I agree wholeheartedly Lakelander, and, this is why, in my opinion, it is very important that our City Government and Leadership take a very close look at the area where the Courthouse is being constructed, and make smart and impactful use of the so called outward design and urban surrounding design for that area in order to take full advantage of the existence of the Courthouse and other viable projects in that area.  We have pretty much "dropped the ball" on most of the rest of downtown, but let's try and "get it right" with the Courthouse project and the surrounding area.

Heights Unknown
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 10:45:44 AM by heights unknown »
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thelakelander

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Re: Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2009, 10:45:50 AM »
With the twin spires, the Chase Tower is 830 feet.  Without them, the actual tower is 700 feet.
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fsujax

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Re: Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2009, 11:13:37 AM »
Lake great ideas about how to get FBC involved. It's nice to see constructive ideas, rather than bashing. I still would like to see an attempt to really investigate this further. We have got to get Downtown on the ball.

vicupstate

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Re: Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2009, 12:19:52 PM »
One thing that the pictures don't truly reveal, is the dominance of the monument in Monument Circle and the Circle itself to DT.  You kinda have to see that in person to really appreciate it's scale and distinction.  It's kind of surprising that the Capitol is not the centerpiece of the city.  That is more typical of state capitals.

The American Legion also has it's office in INdy and there are major war memorials too with expansive lawns connecting all of those things.  It is sort of a mini-mall a la  Washington DC.  Definitely worth seeing if you go there.         
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Deuce

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Re: Elements of Urbanism: Indianapolis 2009
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2009, 12:52:47 PM »
Ah, my birthplace. Great article once again!