Author Topic: BRT & Transit Malls: Do they create Vibrant Cities?  (Read 3056 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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BRT & Transit Malls: Do they create Vibrant Cities?
« on: April 06, 2007, 12:00:00 AM »
BRT & Transit Malls: Do they create Vibrant Cities?

On Monday, April 2, 2007, the consultants for JTA's Bus Rapid Transit system presented their plans for the downtown busway routes to the CPAC.  During this presentation, planners had attempted to prove that despite eliminating parallel parking spaces, restricting vehicular accessibility to downtown retailers, and introducing a massive streamlined network of city buses to pedestrian friendly downtown streets, Bus Rapid Transit would enhance and stimulate economic activity, not destroy it.To drive their point home, consultants mentioned a couple of  successful  transit malls across the country to reduce the fears of those not too keen on their plan of converting Adams Street and the Bay Street Town Center into diesel exhaust pits.

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  • The Jaxson
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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2007, 09:28:14 AM »
The JTA would have you believe that these transit malls work because of transit, and most people haven't been to these places to dispute that.  This whole plan is crazy, but if they do go forward with it, at lease use State & Union - they're highways anyway.

D. Howard

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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2007, 09:53:51 AM »
Orlando's Lymmo sucks...It has a limited range and is mostly used for taking people working in the downtown core to either Magic games or the courthouse.  The City would be better served if the "Lymmo Only" lanes were eliminated and replaced with parallel parking.  It is free, but it isnt worth waiting for the bus.  In the time that you spend waiting for it,  you can walk to the destination.


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All Planners Not The Same
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2007, 02:21:41 PM »
In the conclusion you state that "transportation planners have no idea of what they are talking about...."

I think you mean to say the "JTA transportation planners...."

Please don't lump us all into the same category!


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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2007, 02:23:00 PM »
even more...there are planners at JTA who also know what they are doing....this is only a select few


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Everyone should do this right away ...
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2007, 03:44:12 PM »
From:  patrick
Date:  2007/04/06 Fri PM 03:46:13 EDT
To:  , , , , , , , , , ,  
 Please reconsider the current, ghastly plan calling for the creation of a BRT
and Transit Malls. It could potentially ruin our still struggling but
genuinely developing downtown. Please do not burden our downtown with this
vast polluting waste of space, time and resources. It is as inane as it is
insane. There are better, cleaner and more enlightened alternatives that
simply call for a greater vision and less reactionary and orthodox thinking.

To all our recently elected officials: You were elected to lead on issues like
this. Now lead this city that you have won so handily. Be the leader on its
positive, proactive, enlightened development, not towards another throwback
plan that will have to be uncomfortably superimposed on the city obvious
needs. Lead in such way that you can integrate imaginative solutions that will
benefit the city and grow with it, not ones that will have to be discarded as
the city quickly outpaces this silly contraptions capacity, after the waste of
considerable time and expense. Lead because this is the wrong plan for this
city and we need your help. Lead because you promised you would.

Thank you,



  • The Jaxson
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Great letter
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2007, 04:15:39 PM »
Keep them coming guys. Most of the city leaders do not even know about the plan at all.

Richard Bowers

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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2007, 02:06:48 PM »
Did I miss something, I thought the busses were going to stop at the north and south end of  the skyway. I thought that was the reason that the property was purchased and the north end stop was developed. Otherwise the skyway becomes the worlds largest eclectic mobile sculpture. I thought we were trying to keep busses off downtown streets, one of the reasons we moved the central station to the north rather than continuing at Hemming Park.


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A waste
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2007, 12:09:42 AM »
Build the BRT when we need it. We don't need it now.


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would this even be used?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2007, 11:35:05 AM »
I'm not one who spends a lot of time downtown, but the BRT plan leaves me wondering: will this really get used? Does anyone have statistics or know where I could get access to statistics to the current use of JTA services?

I went downtown on Saturday (my first time really exploring the downtown area) and I decided to take a ride on the Skyway. Now I realize this was a Saturday, but there was no one else waiting to ride it. On top of that, I tried 3 times to pay my $.35 fare and each time the change receptor failed to activate the turnstile so that I could go through. I ended up just hopping over the turnstile and then waited at Central to take the train to Kings Ave. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like the three stops after crossing the St. Johns (San Marco, Riverplace, Kings Ave) were really close together. The distance between San Marco and Kings Ave was reasonable, but I could see the Riverplace station from San Marco, which seemed ridiculous to me. It also struck me that, while we weren't going slow, we seemed like we could have been going faster, seeing as there is only one train going at a time.

Does anyone have any information on who planned the skyway? Is the bus system as poorly planned as the Skyway? Would it be a reasonable alternative to look into expanding the Skyway's area of service? I figure, the infrastructure is already in place, it wouldn't add congestion to the streets and it might help increase ridership along the existing lines.


  • Phd. Ferroequinology
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2007, 03:49:57 PM »
JTA we spell that LRT! Also Bus E-L-E-C-T-R-I-C or at least. Shake off the filth and fumes of the diesel bus fleet and move them to the ends of new  Skyway, LRT and Commuter Rail. That being said, a TRANSIT MALL with LRT and TROLLEY BUS could REALLY remake the City. One can find the model for this in another port City of similar size, sprawl . PORTLAND OREGON, to visit a transit mall with people friendly environment check out:



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Integrated core transportation
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2007, 08:05:48 PM »
Thank you Robert Mann! YES, our city leaders need to focus on infrastructure that is in place and needs to be better utilized or expanded. Springfield and Riverside would welcome Trolley stops, and the new residents in both of those areas would use them. San Marco residents might, too, if the Trolley went down to  San Marco Square.

Regarding Portland, Oregon, all interested in core transportation, retail and housing issues, as well as downtown revitalizations in general should read:

Intown Living: A Different American Dream by Ann Breen & Dick Rigby

This is a great analysis of other cities in the U.S. that are further along the path of revitalization and how a forward-thinking, proactive leadership, smart planning and committed private sector worked together to revitalize their downtowns and downtown neighborhoods.

That's right, the core downtowns didn't come up by themselves, and neither did the neighborhoods surrounding them -- they succeeded because they were linked through smart, integrated transportation, retail and development.

The other thing JTA is ignoring is the BUS STIGMA. They need to accept that anyone who doesn't have to ride a bus, WON'T ride a bus. I think most suburbanites and the office population would use non-bus transportation when in the core (trolleys, ferries, skyway), and downtown neighborhood residents would use other public transportation to get to the core.