Bus Rapid Tragedy Strikes Again

[Metro Jacksonville]

Bus Rapid Tragedy Strikes Again



In 1997, a new 3-mile busway loop known as the “LYMMO” was introduced to the streets of downtown Orlando.  The LYMMO serves as a free downtown people mover or shuttle service running on a continuous loop throughout the central business district.  For whatever reason, consultants continue to promote this system as good example of what Adams could resemble if they had their way with it. Today, Metro Jacksonville will take you on a visual tour of this system to show why Bus Rapid Tragedy (BRT) planners and consultants continue to remain on the wrong track when it comes to this system and its negative impact on the downtown core.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/428

[Jeremiah]

Let's take a look at a comparison.  This article makes a good point that maximizing the existing transit system rather than ruining the pedestrian corridors that we do have is the way to go.  But I would take that one step further and say that what's truly needed is a viable "Transit Hub".  Now when I say transit hub I mean a center for commerce as well as travel.  Take a look at Jacksonville from above.



A sprawling metropolis with no true mass transit system to serve it's growing population (as one of the fastest growing cities in the U.S.).  Now let's take a look at Washington D.C.



Now, D.C. doesn't only include the Capital and the FBI and the CIA and the White House and all of those pretty monuments, like the Great American Penis.  It also includes surrounding cities like Alexandria, Annapolis, College Park, Fairfax, and Rosselin.  We're talking about a major landmass filled with people, just like Jacksonville.  The one thing they have that we do not?  A functioning mass transit system of buses and metro lines.  Lots of people like to say that this simply won't work in Jacksonville because we're too spread out.  I say that's B.S.  Jacksonville is not more spread out the Northern Virginia, Southern and Eastern Maryland, and D.C.  Jacksonville is the perfect city for a project such as this.  "Oh, but building such a massive project would take years and millions of tax payers dollars."  Kind of like the millions of dollars that the city is already spending on roadway improvement projects to widen overcrowded roads and expand the city ever further out and out?  And, the D.C. metro was first constructed in the late 1970's (don't quote me) and was up and running by the mid 80's.  Sure, it's expanding all the time.  They've added spots farther up in Maryland...because they need them.  Jacksonville needs to take a big deep breath and realize just how far behind other cities of comparable size we are.  It's time to wake up and smell the carbon dioxide.

[Jeremiah]

ok, why didn't my images show up?

[Ocklawaha]

Hardly,  with a population of 1,984,000 in the MSA and a growth rate of about 2.6% in the last few years compaired with  Jacksonville MSA Population. Total Population 2005. 1,224,655, and a growth rate of between 21-46% in the MSA Counties. Orlando, has no sense of history, "old" money or cosmopolitan culture. Having lived there for some 15 years, I quickly learned Orlando is quite industrious and aggressivly seeks new jobs for it's citizens. Todays Orlando resident has 8 job choices: Pump Gas, Wait Tables, Make Beds or Dance for a Mouse, the other four are: Dance for  a Mouse, Make Beds, Wait Tables or Pump Gas!  If you think Mickey has been a good employer, I know a high ranking executive that invited us to a bash at his house, where the Executives all announced to their friends and wives that the Secret is, "The Mouse is REALLY a Rat!" I still contend Orlando, whatever the population will always be playing catch-up to well extablished Cities built on the bedrock of Industry and Commerce. Until such time as they succeed the place will forever be a "Rodent Infested Wart on a Sand Hill."

Orlando has NOTHING that we need in Jacksonville. Just the fact that Orlando has tried BRT is reason enough for us to steer clear of their mistakes. Whatever happens there is a product of the Mouse. The Landscape, because the Mouse wants it that way. The bus lanes, commuter rail and airport all because of the Mouse. New road projects, streetscapes, hotels and O-rena venues, THE MOUSE!  God help us if JTA now decides to hold them up as our "NEW" guiding light... We don't have a mouse and frankly "don't do business with carnival people..." Let's keep it that way and say NO to BRT or "BIG RAT TRANSIT!"

Ocklawaha
The Never so quiet Jacksonville booster!

[thelakelander]

Jeremiah, it looks like you need to upload the images from your hard drive onto a photo host site, like www.photobucket.com.  Once that's done, then they can be linked to the site.

If it helps, you can email me the pics at edavis@metrojacksonville.com, and I'll upload and insert them for you.

[D. Howard]

Robert Mann,

Have you been to Orlando lately?  Have the seen the downtown, or did you visit "the rat" as you call it?  Sure, Orlando is no Chicago, but look at the activity. The bottom line is that local businesses can succeed in downtown Orlando.  It doesn't have the retail base as of yet, but it does have the housing, jobs, and nightlife.  Jax is on its way with the housing (under construction) and the jobs, but where is the nightlife?  Downtown Orlando has Church Street and downtown Jacksonville has Southern Baptist Church.  I agree whole-heartedly with your comments on the tourism area, but there are plenty of good jobs in the downtown area.  Back to the topic, BRT sucks.  I only use it to go from the office to the Magic games.  If it connected the large residential historic district (Thornton Park) to the urban core, it would be much more useful.  The LYMMO lanes would be much better used as parallel parking to buffer pedestrians from traffic.

[I-10east]

IMO DT Orlando is an afterthought compared to nearby theme parks there. I'm not tryin' to diss, but most peeps pass by DT Orlando to go to the theme parks; Why people try to make it out to be DT Boston or somethin' is beyond me. Orlando is what it is, a great tourist city with theme parks being the major draw. Far as I'm concerned to major DT in O-Town is DT Disney.

[thelakelander]

While, each person may have different views regarding their likes or dislikes towards our more progressive neighbor to the South, at the end of the day....they're just opinions.

However, what is a stone cold fact and reality, is JTA's plans to stick bus rapid transit in the heart of our city and spend upwards of $20 million dollars worth of your tax money to do so.  Regardless of how each person feels about them, cities like Orlando and Tampa, give us the opportunity to see many of the things proposed here (like BRT) in action, years after their completion.  This means we don't have to listen, spend money or visualize BRT dreams by transit consultants and JTA planners, because the real thing exists two hours to the south.  

Unless, we like seeing buses have priority over small businesses and pedestrians in our downtown landscape, then we need to focus on the task at hand.  That's stopping this plan dead in it's tracks or at least coming up with a solution that provides alternatives to running consolidated city bus lines down Adams Street and the Bay Street Town Center.

[Ocklawaha]

D Howard, yes, I HAVE been in Orlando lately, have an Apartment in Maitland, having moved "UP TOWN" LOL from Lake Mary. I-10 East, you hit the nail on the head in saying Orlando is DE-centralized and has no REAL downtown. While it is true as D. Howard said, BRT or transit lanes MIGHT work if they went into the suburbs, the fact remains, the whole of Central Florida is "The Suburbs."  Therein is my point.

Lakelander,  the reason for my "high" opinion of Orlando vs Jacksonville, is we are two completely different animals. Tampa, okay, I don't care for it, but it is VERY close to what we are. Ditto for Boston, Philadelphia, New Orleans (just so we don't sink below Sea Level!), San Diego, Portland, Seattle or San Francisco.  By a comparison of  Jacksonville, and these progressive places, we could REALLY see our plight. BRT will destroy downtown Jacksonville. Bogota (a big government funded City that fights hard to be almost as good as much smaller Medellin or Cali) has the WORLDS NUMBER ONE BRT system. (BRT people worship at Bogota, just ask them) What they don't tell you, is when the PR cameras are NOT there, the system is FILTHY, not because it's in a "3rd World Country", but because the brand new European buses belch a cloud of black soot that settles over the whole city. The tile floors in 22ND floor offices, must be swept and mopped TWICE daily. The Real Estate demands of BRT which runs along main highways, have consumed miles of downtown in what appears to be a four lane concrete moat.  Couple that with overhead metal bridges that fly over each lane to the "stations" (in the median)  and you have a visual pollution that we can only imagine. At peak flow, the buses back up, loading slows and as on occasion riots break out which requires the National Police or Army... Do you REALLY think that wouldn't happen in Jacksonville? Bogota's system runs on incredible headway's, every few seconds, for the most part it serves only the extreme poor.

Jacksonville's JTA's idea of Rapid Transit is 30-45 minute headway's, and it DOES serve the entire community including many business commuters. While it is true we need MUCH MORE transit of all types (including bus) , since our JTA is unwilling to provide it today... WHAT MAKES ANYONE THINK that by spending 50 Million to rip a path through downtown (under equally expensive Skyway) that these buses are somehow going to appear by magic??? Even if they equip the Busway with enough drivers and coaches for 3 to 10 minute headway's, what does one do when you reach the end of the tiny BRT line? We will still be waiting 30-45 minutes for the connecting bus!  What assurance is there that says the BRT system will EVER be fully equipped and staffed, even if it IS built?  As it is, our JTA drivers are working until they drop... we apparently can't afford them! BRT = BUILD ROADS TODAY or BIG RAT TRANSIT... Neither of which we need in Jacksonville. You'll just love that sidewalk cafe lunch special, "glazed chicken salad with CARBON FLECK seasoning..."

Robert Mann aka: Ocklawaha
Transportation Consultant

[thelakelander]

Ocklawaha, you just bought up an interesting point.

Even if they equip the Busway with enough drivers and coaches for 3 to 10 minute headway's, what does one do when you reach the end of the tiny BRT line? We will still be waiting 30-45 minutes for the connecting bus! What assurance is there that says the BRT system will EVER be fully equipped and staffed, even if it IS built? As it is, our JTA drivers are working until they drop... we apparently can't afford them! BRT = BUILD ROADS TODAY or BIG RAT TRANSIT

JTA's BRT plan, as presented so far, is not the type of BRT system you explain in this statement.  Instead of being a true "BRT" system, the routes will be used by regular city buses.  So what you have is a situation very similar to Tampa's Marion Street Transitway (which blows), in which all the Hooters strapped buses clogging people's lungs today, will be streamlined onto a single route through downtown.  That's vastly different from the transit malls and busways operating in the downtowns fo Orlando, Denver, Portland, etc.

[D. Howard]

Bus Rapid Transit is an oxymoron.